14:38:33 RRSAgent has joined #rif 14:38:33 logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/03/21-rif-irc 14:39:07 sandro has changed the topic to: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Mar/0209 14:39:26 sandro has changed the topic to: 21 March Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Mar/0209 14:49:43 sandro i am new to rif 14:53:18 Ah, I see you now. People usually go by their own name instead of their organization's name. 14:53:34 ok sorry 14:53:41 i reconnect 14:53:46 you can just use /nick 14:54:14 moz has joined #rif 14:54:23 i'm back 14:54:55 and welcome. :-) Do folks call you "moz" in person, or just on-line? 14:55:22 online 15:08:12 moz_ has joined #rif 15:25:17 sandro are you here ? 15:25:44 yes. 15:25:51 i'm trying to use xchat and it is trying to connect to mmclure.w3.org 15:26:01 and it doesn't work 15:26:12 what port? 15:26:20 6667 15:26:45 You'll want port 6665 for this. 15:27:03 (An unfortunate historical artifact.) 15:33:07 any idea on how to specify port with xchat (sorry) ? 15:34:44 xchat >> Server List , pick the server, click Edit, select the server, click edit, change the /6667 to /6665. 15:34:57 (at least, that looks like it will do it.) 15:37:47 patranja has joined #rif 15:39:56 ChrisW has joined #rif 15:44:05 FrankMcCabe has joined #rif 15:50:02 DavidHirtle has joined #rif 15:52:17 PhilippeB has joined #rif 15:52:29 sandro_ has joined #rif 15:53:20 keeper is a bot. 15:54:01 MoZ has joined #rif 15:54:12 I sent e-mail about MoZ a few minutes ago. 15:54:23 (new member) 15:54:38 Allen has joined #rif 15:54:39 chear all i am a new member 15:54:46 hi moz 15:54:52 welcome 15:55:20 please read: http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/TeleconEtiquette 15:55:30 and: http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/UsingZakim 15:55:47 LeoraMorgenstern has joined #rif 15:55:48 josb has joined #rif 15:57:26 EvanWallace has joined #rif 15:57:48 csma has joined #rif 15:58:01 DaveReynolds has joined #rif 15:58:12 Harold has joined #rif 15:58:40 thanks ChrisW 15:59:16 zakim, mute me 15:59:16 sorry, sandro, I don't know what conference this is 15:59:18 AxelPolleres has joined #rif 15:59:23 zakim, this is rif 15:59:23 ok, sandro; that matches SW_RIF()11:00AM 15:59:27 zakim, who is here? 15:59:27 On the phone I see Allen_Ginsberg, Sandro, [NRCC], ??P14 15:59:27 zakim, mute me 15:59:29 On IRC I see AxelPolleres, Harold, DaveReynolds, csma, EvanWallace, josb, LeoraMorgenstern, Allen, MoZ, sandro, PhilippeB, DavidHirtle, FrankMcCabe, ChrisW, PaulaP, RRSAgent, 15:59:31 ... Zakim, Keeper 15:59:32 Allen_Ginsberg should now be muted 15:59:35 zakim, mute me 15:59:35 Sandro should now be muted 15:59:37 +??P24 15:59:46 zakim, ??P24 is me 15:59:49 +csma; got it 15:59:53 +[DERI] 15:59:59 +??P30 16:00:05 +Evan_Wallace 16:00:22 SaidTabet has joined #rif 16:00:27 +DavidHirtle 16:00:39 +??P36 16:00:46 -??P14 16:00:47 +[IBM] 16:00:54 +Axel_Polleres 16:00:56 zakim, [ibm] is temporarily me 16:00:56 +ChrisW; got it 16:00:58 +??P39 16:01:03 +Philippe_Bonnard (was ??P39) 16:01:16 zakim, mute me 16:01:16 Philippe_Bonnard should now be muted 16:01:24 +??P43 16:01:25 +Dave_Reynolds (was ??P43) 16:01:37 zakim, ??P30 is me 16:01:37 +LeoraMorgenstern; got it 16:01:44 Deborah_Nichols has joined #rif 16:01:45 zakim, mute me 16:01:45 LeoraMorgenstern should now be muted 16:02:04 cgi-irc has joined #rif 16:02:07 +PaulaP 16:02:12 JeffP has joined #rif 16:02:14 zakim, who is on the phone? 16:02:14 On the phone I see Allen_Ginsberg (muted), Sandro (muted), [NRCC], csma (muted), josb (muted), LeoraMorgenstern (muted), Evan_Wallace, David_Hirtle (muted), ??P36, ChrisW, 16:02:16 ... Axel_Polleres (muted), Philippe_Bonnard (muted), Dave_Reynolds (muted), [LMU] 16:02:16 +Deborah_Nichols 16:02:37 +??P48 16:02:41 Who is ??P36 16:02:50 pfps has joined #rif 16:03:00 +[Fujitsu] 16:03:04 zakim, who is on the phone? 16:03:08 On the phone I see Allen_Ginsberg (muted), Sandro (muted), [NRCC], csma (muted), josb (muted), LeoraMorgenstern (muted), Evan_Wallace, David_Hirtle (muted), ??P36, ChrisW, 16:03:09 zakim, Fujitsu is me 16:03:14 zakim, ??P48 is me 16:03:18 ... Axel_Polleres (muted), Philippe_Bonnard (muted), Dave_Reynolds (muted), [LMU], Deborah_Nichols (muted), ??P48, [Fujitsu] 16:03:19 zakim, ??p36 is me 16:03:29 zakim, [NRCC] is me 16:03:30 +FrankMcCabe; got it 16:03:32 MalaMehrotra has joined #rif 16:03:38 +SaidTabet; got it 16:03:42 +pfps; got it 16:03:44 +Harold; got it 16:03:44 zakim, mute me 16:03:56 SaidTabet should now be muted 16:04:11 -[LMU] 16:04:17 MarkusK has joined #rif 16:04:22 yes 16:04:23 +??P7 16:04:49 +Mala_Mehrotra 16:04:57 zakim, ??P7 is me 16:05:03 Donald_Chapin has joined #rif 16:05:06 Uli has joined #rif 16:05:08 +PaulaP 16:05:12 JosDeRoo has joined #rif 16:05:20 +JeffP; got it 16:05:24 +[IPcaller] 16:05:51 zakim, mute me 16:05:54 +1 16:05:56 +1 16:05:56 johnhall has joined #rif 16:06:02 +??P26 16:06:04 +Donald_Chapin (was ??P26) 16:06:08 +Mike_Dean 16:06:12 Donald_Chapin should now be muted 16:06:16 +??P51 16:06:20 -Donald_Chapin 16:06:40 chrisw: f2f2 minutes are now out; please go over them 16:07:05 +Jos_De_Roo 16:07:28 Zakim, mute me 16:07:29 Jos_De_Roo should now be muted 16:07:41 +[IPcaller] 16:08:00 zakim, who is talking? 16:08:05 + +353208789aaaa 16:08:06 +Donald_Chapin (was +353208789aaaa) 16:08:10 josb, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ChrisW (50%), [IPcaller] (58%) 16:08:15 zakim, ipcaller is me 16:08:15 +johnhall; got it 16:08:20 zakim, mute me 16:08:20 Donald_Chapin should now be muted 16:08:24 sakim,mute me 16:08:29 zakim, mute johnhall 16:08:29 johnhall should now be muted 16:08:44 OK thanks 16:08:47 topic: f2f meetings 16:09:16 q+ 16:09:20 +Gary_Hallmark 16:09:25 chrisw: f2f3 will be in Montenegro June 8-9 16:09:32 http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/F2F3 16:09:37 ack axel 16:09:39 +[IPcaller] 16:09:55 zakim, who is on the phone? 16:09:56 On the phone I see Allen_Ginsberg (muted), Sandro, Harold, csma (muted), josb (muted), LeoraMorgenstern (muted), Evan_Wallace, David_Hirtle (muted), pfps, ChrisW, Axel_Polleres, 16:10:00 ... Philippe_Bonnard (muted), Dave_Reynolds (muted), Deborah_Nichols (muted), SaidTabet (muted), FrankMcCabe, JeffP, Mala_Mehrotra, PaulaP (muted), MarkusK (muted), Mike_Dean, 16:10:02 ... ??P51 (muted), Jos_De_Roo (muted), johnhall (muted), Donald_Chapin (muted), Gary_Hallmark, [IPcaller] 16:10:15 GaryHallmark has joined #rif 16:10:39 MichaelKifer has joined #rif 16:10:44 axel: wiki page updated with hotel details etc. 16:11:15 cgi-irc is StanDevitt 16:11:45 chrisw: for f2f4 two possibilities so far... 16:11:49 +Michael_Kifer 16:12:01 zakim, did you see me, Uli? 16:12:01 I don't understand your question, Uli. 16:12:14 ... could be before or after ISWC in Atlanta 16:12:14 No, Uli. 16:12:31 It may be easier to read http://www.w3.org/1998/12/bridge/Zakim.html when you are looking for yourself. 16:13:03 zakim, unmute johnhall 16:13:03 johnhall should no longer be muted 16:13:04 Zakin, unmute me 16:13:17 zakim, unmute me 16:13:17 johnhall was not muted, johnhall 16:13:22 Elisa has joined #rif 16:13:31 zakim, who is talking? 16:13:42 sandro, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds 16:13:48 zakim, who is talking? 16:14:01 sandro, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: ChrisW (68%), johnhall (27%) 16:14:44 zakim, unmute me 16:14:44 csma should no longer be muted 16:15:05 johnhall: will ask about 3rd and 4th of November 16:15:35 +Elisa_Kendall 16:16:02 zakim, mute me 16:16:02 Elisa_Kendall should now be muted 16:16:06 q+ 16:16:19 zakim, unmute me 16:16:19 Donald_Chapin should no longer be muted 16:16:57 pfps: Athens Center in Athens, Georgia is a possibility 16:17:27 q? 16:17:34 ack donald 16:17:48 zakim, mute me 16:17:48 Donald_Chapin should now be muted 16:18:45 q+ 16:19:33 chrisw: in Atlanta (3-4 Nov or 4-5) $25 per day plus breaks 16:20:10 +$15/person/day for lunhc 16:20:54 q+ 16:20:55 chrisw: we're still open to proposals if anyone's willing to sponsor (doesn't have to be at same time as ISWC) 16:20:55 That drive is doable -- mostly freeway, fyi. 16:21:04 ISWC in Athens, GA, not Atlanta 16:21:05 ack csma 16:21:14 Zakim, cgi-irc is StanDevitt 16:21:14 sorry, JosDeRoo, I do not recognize a party named 'cgi-irc' 16:21:27 chrisw: expect in the range of 40 people 16:21:41 q? 16:21:48 zakim, mute me 16:21:48 johnhall should now be muted 16:22:25 zakim, unmute me 16:22:25 johnhall should no longer be muted 16:22:32 csma: what is the feeling of everyone regarding having the f2f collocated with ISWC? ... many straight days of meetings 16:22:34 q+ 16:22:42 zakim, who is talking? 16:22:47 It is good to co-locate in order to reduce travel 16:22:53 ChrisW, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: csma (85%), pfps (4%), johnhall (19%) 16:23:24 zakim, mute me 16:23:24 johnhall should now be muted 16:23:31 +1 to mk 16:23:32 +1, colocation saves money and time, at the expense of some weariness 16:23:36 +1 16:23:42 +1 to MK 16:23:54 mkifer: understand csma's argument, but worth it 16:24:13 +1 on avoiding another marathon ISWC 16:24:29 q? 16:24:35 ack johnhall 16:24:37 q- 16:24:53 johnhall: there's an OMG meeting in Washington in December 16:25:00 csma: December is too late 16:25:16 zakim, mute me 16:25:16 johnhall should now be muted 16:25:36 +1 from me too 16:26:03 zakim, mute me 16:26:03 csma should now be muted 16:26:22 chrisw: we're still open but it seems people favor colocation with ISWC 16:26:27 mdean has joined #rif 16:26:28 nothing new from us. 16:26:29 zakim, unmure me 16:26:29 I don't understand 'unmure me', Donald_Chapin 16:26:34 topic: liaison 16:26:38 ack donald 16:26:38 zakim, unmute me 16:26:42 Donald_Chapin should no longer be muted 16:27:28 http://www.omg.org/cgi-bin/doc?dtc/2006-03-02 16:27:38 donald: OMG publication -- parts might be interesting for us 16:27:44 zakim, mute me 16:27:44 Donald_Chapin should now be muted 16:27:52 topic: UC&R 16:27:55 zakim, unmute me 16:27:55 Allen_Ginsberg should no longer be muted 16:28:11 zakim, unmute me 16:28:11 csma should no longer be muted 16:29:36 leaving. As of this point the attendees were Allen_Ginsberg, Sandro, csma, josb, Evan_Wallace, DavidHirtle, Axel_Polleres, ChrisW, Philippe_Bonnard, Dave_Reynolds, 16:29:36 Zakim has left #rif 16:29:39 ... LeoraMorgenstern, PaulaP, Deborah_Nichols, FrankMcCabe, SaidTabet, pfps, Harold, Mala_Mehrotra, JeffP, MarkusK, Donald_Chapin, Mike_Dean, Jos_De_Roo, johnhall, Gary_Hallmark, 16:29:40 yes 16:29:42 ... StanDevitt, Michael_Kifer, Elisa_Kendall 16:29:45 is was already dropped 16:29:45 drop the action 16:29:49 s/is/it/ 16:29:51 didn't we drop it last time? 16:29:56 Zakim has joined #rif 16:29:57 ACTION: Christian to create new Wiki page for requirements [DONE] 16:30:00 a few weeks ago already! 16:30:02 zakim, this is rif 16:30:02 ok, sandro; that matches SW_RIF()11:00AM 16:30:07 zakim, who is here? 16:30:07 On the phone I see Allen_Ginsberg, Sandro, Harold, csma, josb (muted), LeoraMorgenstern (muted), Evan_Wallace, David_Hirtle (muted), pfps, ChrisW, Axel_Polleres (muted), 16:30:10 ... Philippe_Bonnard (muted), Dave_Reynolds (muted), Deborah_Nichols (muted), SaidTabet (muted), FrankMcCabe, JeffP, Mala_Mehrotra, PaulaP (muted), MarkusK (muted), Mike_Dean, 16:30:14 ... ??P51 (muted), Jos_De_Roo (muted), johnhall (muted), Donald_Chapin (muted), Gary_Hallmark, StanDevitt, Michael_Kifer, Elisa_Kendall (muted) 16:30:18 On IRC I see mdean, Elisa, MichaelKifer, GaryHallmark, johnhall, JosDeRoo, Uli, Donald_Chapin, MarkusK, MalaMehrotra, pfps, JeffP, cgi-irc, Deborah_Nichols, SaidTabet, 16:30:21 ... AxelPolleres, Harold, DaveReynolds, csma, EvanWallace, josb, LeoraMorgenstern, Allen, MoZ, sandro, PhilippeB, DavidHirtle, FrankMcCabe, ChrisW, PaulaP, RRSAgent, Keeper 16:30:42 csma: last week had discussion about whether to keep track of original use cases in the public draft 16:30:44 ACTION: Dieter to review the Requirements [DROPPED] 16:30:57 ... decided we wouldn't for the first draft 16:31:03 [DONE] ACTION: chair to include the discussion on the 50 use cases (links to wiki in public drafts) in the agenda for the next telecon 16:31:23 [DONE] ACTION: editors of the UCR document to write a stub which marks that requirements will follow in a later version 16:31:33 [DONE] ACTION: editors to remove paragraph to which chrisw objects 16:31:46 q+ 16:32:19 q+ 16:32:23 -StanDevitt 16:32:24 ... what do we do with initial use cases -- is it necessary to link back to them e.g. when discussing reqs? 16:32:58 +[IPcaller] 16:33:03 zakim, ??51 is possibly Uli 16:33:03 sorry, Uli, I do not understand your question 16:33:06 josb: not good idea to link to wiki pages 16:33:14 +1 to not linking to wiki from public drafts 16:33:18 josb: at least not in final documents 16:33:21 p51 16:33:23 Uli, try "41#" to test it. 16:33:45 Zakim ??P51 is Uli 16:33:54 zakim, ??p51 is uli 16:33:54 +uli; got it 16:33:55 q? 16:33:57 q- Uli 16:33:57 q- 16:34:02 ack, josb 16:34:04 q- ??P51 16:34:27 harold: in order to get wide adoption of RIF once ready, good to have wide selection of use cases 16:34:35 StanDevitt2 has joined #rif 16:34:39 ... good to keep around 16:35:07 ... e.g. link from RIF homepage 16:35:22 PaulV has joined #rif 16:35:47 csma: like the idea of encouraging people to submit use cases 16:35:58 q? 16:35:59 harold: people could reuse existing template 16:36:02 q+ 16:36:06 ack Harold 16:36:17 ack sandro 16:36:21 +[IPcaller.a] 16:36:48 sandro: if people want to give us another use case, they should look over existing ones 16:36:49 q+ 16:37:20 -Philippe_Bonnard 16:38:25 +1 to csma, makes sense. 16:38:27 csma: we need comments on use cases in document, not the original ones 16:38:27 +1 to csma: we need comments on UCR draft, not original use cases 16:38:58 csma: keep harold's idea in mind at least for later 16:39:00 +1 (for this draft, at least) 16:39:23 allen: agree with csma re: comments only on UCR draft 16:39:31 we should internally discuss, monitor, whether the original use cases are *covered*, the original authors being responsible for this. 16:39:51 igor has joined #rif 16:40:10 ... may be useful later to have appendix where relevant original wiki use cases are mentioned 16:40:18 q? 16:40:23 q? 16:40:25 q- 16:40:26 sound to me like opening a big can of worms 16:40:29 ack allen 16:40:37 scribenick: DavidHirtle 16:40:42 RRSAgent, make minutes 16:40:42 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/03/21-rif-minutes.html sandro 16:40:49 RRSAgent, pointer? 16:40:49 See http://www.w3.org/2006/03/21-rif-irc#T16-40-49 16:41:48 pfps has joined #rif 16:41:49 csma: don't need to have this discussion each time we publish 16:43:01 We can do that as an exception, but by default we should not link to wiki 16:44:29 sandro: later, could tell people to feel free to add info on implementation to public wiki page 16:45:49 csma: followup to publication - we want to disseminate the WD as much as possible 16:46:16 ... make sure that as many people read the document as possible 16:46:51 ... please disseminate within your organizations, lists, etc. 16:47:03 zakim, mute me 16:47:03 Allen_Ginsberg should now be muted 16:47:04 bye 16:47:44 PRR liaison: no problem disseminating, although RIF stage 1 / horn rules may not be of too much interest 16:48:21 zakim, unmute me 16:48:21 Elisa_Kendall should no longer be muted 16:48:23 SBVR Liaison will do 16:48:32 ACTION: Paul, Donald and Lisa to publicize WD within the standards you represent 16:48:50 zakim, mute me 16:48:50 Elisa_Kendall should now be muted 16:49:03 Action confirmed for PRR Liaison to publish the UCR draft 16:49:12 chrisw: (action contingent on actual release, of course) 16:49:51 ACTION: csma to publicise to Java Rules 16:49:53 what about sparql? 16:49:56 ACTION ChrisW tell commonlogic about UCR pub 16:50:13 ACTION CSMA tell java-rules about UCR pub 16:50:23 Action: ChrisW to publicise to ICO CL 16:50:24 ACTION: ChrisW tell commonlogic about UCR pub 16:50:29 yes 16:51:24 ACTION: John Hall to publicise to R community 16:52:02 s/R com/BR com/ 16:52:40 ACTION: JosB to publicise to SPARQL 16:53:02 ACTION: Sandro to set up a wiki page to record dissemination actions 16:53:46 csma: what to do with comments after publication? 16:54:07 chrisw: respond to comments as a group 16:54:27 csma: don't reply before discussion 16:55:15 chrisw: one of chairs should reply that it's been received 16:55:23 sandro: could have autoreply... 16:55:58 sandro: everyone will receive comments from the list 16:56:28 sandro: we'll talk about it offline 16:57:17 not important, in WebOnt only document editors were on the distribution list by default 16:57:35 chrisw: proposal - chairs only get the comments 16:57:44 Do we have the web page for the comments that are not sent to the mailing list? 16:57:45 ... and editors 16:57:58 I mean, what is the url for that web page? 16:58:01 q+ 16:58:13 zakim, unmute me 16:58:13 Allen_Ginsberg should no longer be muted 16:58:36 allen: at f2f had brainstorming session and made list of requirements -- is it on the wiki? 16:58:42 sandro: yes 16:58:50 s/yes/yes, a while ago 16:59:01 http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/F2F2/RequirementsBrainstorming 16:59:10 q+ 16:59:14 zakim, unmute me 16:59:14 LeoraMorgenstern should no longer be muted 16:59:45 -Mike_Dean 16:59:49 -Jos_De_Roo 16:59:53 q- 16:59:59 zakim, mute me 16:59:59 Allen_Ginsberg should now be muted 17:00:10 Bye everyone. 17:00:16 -SaidTabet 17:00:22 -PaulV 17:00:31 [PENDING] ACTION: Chris to start email discussion about what issues are "fuzzy" wrt phase 1 & 2 17:00:32 -Elisa_Kendall 17:00:38 csma: Paula's requirements list was bottom up; brainstorming was building on this 17:00:44 bye all 17:01:00 [PENDING] ACTION: Chris to start email discussion about what issues are "fuzzy" wrt phase 1 & 2 17:01:22 leora: do we have the URL for the comments not going to the mailing list? 17:01:35 http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg 17:01:47 q- 17:01:47 "Comments from the public to the Working Group are welcome at public-rif-comments@w3.org (public archive" 17:01:50 zakim, mute me 17:01:50 LeoraMorgenstern should now be muted 17:02:04 +[IPcaller.a] 17:02:08 http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/Design_Constraints/Terminology 17:02:21 sandro: while going over brainstorming results, struck me that we're using "RIF" in different ways 17:02:35 Public commetns url: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-comments 17:04:42 chrisw: can you add them to the glossary? 17:05:07 q+ 17:05:09 sandro: looking for comments; if this doesn't work for you, propose something else 17:05:23 q+ 17:05:33 zakim, unmute me 17:05:33 Allen_Ginsberg should no longer be muted 17:05:34 http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/Design_Constraints 17:05:48 q? 17:07:31 q+ 17:07:54 ack Harold 17:08:03 q- 17:08:13 harold: by default, we should stick to the charter 17:08:44 csma: when adding a design constraint to the list, wouldn't mention whether phase 1 or phase 2 17:09:32 you can't hear? 17:09:34 david? 17:09:41 -David_Hirtle 17:09:46 q+ 17:10:00 yes 17:10:00 I can try to scribe 17:10:24 thanks Paula 17:10:30 scribenick: PaulaP 17:10:52 csma: is not an issue of phase 1 or 2 17:11:21 + +33.8.72.47.aabb 17:11:32 csma: it is an issue of urgency and depends on the use of rif core and extensions 17:11:49 csma: we can derive the definitions from the design constraints 17:11:56 +1 csma -- don't state phasing in your Design Constraints -- state urgency 17:11:59 q? 17:12:02 csma: and still keep the charter issues 17:12:22 frank: there is a methodology for capturing requirements 17:12:48 frank: establish high-level goals and identify factors that are necessary for these goals 17:13:08 frank: very useful and helps clarify what is important 17:13:16 http://wiki.oasis-open.org/soa-rm/Goals,_Critical_Success_Factors_and_Requirements 17:13:29 frank: there should be 3 or 4 high-level goals 17:13:43 ack me 17:13:48 frank: identify from them technology requirements 17:13:52 +DavidHirtle 17:13:58 ack frankmc 17:14:09 dave: a huge number of requirements at moment 17:14:16 dave: need proposals on email 17:14:46 chris: the discussion on the process could take too long 17:14:49 q? 17:15:01 chris: but we can try to make proposals on email 17:15:16 if you don't structure your discussion, it will go on forever 17:15:28 Topic: Designing for extensability 17:15:43 s/discussion/discussion on requirements/ 17:16:09 csma: the objective of phase 1 is on achitecture principles and focus on extensions 17:16:56 q? 17:16:57 csma: the idea of limiting the expressive power of rif to horn rules is just for postponing difficult issues to phase 2 17:17:18 StanDevitt has joined #rif 17:17:19 csma: we should focus on the extension mechanisms and the basics for rif core 17:17:42 csma: afterwards we can start dealing with difficult issues 17:18:06 csma: this is also mentioned in the conclusion of the workshop we had 17:18:27 q? 17:18:34 csma: we should leave the semantical and theoretical questions for phase 2 17:18:46 +1 for extensibility. Or to put it another way, to make sure we don't paint ourselves into a corner and preclude e.g. reactive rules 17:18:55 chris: any further discussions? 17:18:59 -1 for "semantical questions" 17:19:10 chris: this is an important point not clear from the charter 17:19:16 ok 17:19:28 Another way to put it is to be sure that phase 1 design does not limit the later extensibility. 17:19:30 csma: difficult features instead of semantical questions 17:19:54 csma: there are many ways to deal with the extensibility mechanisms 17:20:17 csma: not really clear how and where we should start 17:20:36 chris: it is important for our work 17:20:53 chris: need to devote more time next week on this issue 17:21:13 chris: think to propose kinds of such mechanisms 17:21:28 What is an "extensibility mechanism"? 17:21:34 chris: based on these proposals the group can start discussions 17:22:12 ACTION: chair to put design for extensibility and discussion of proposals on agenda for next telecon 17:22:25 q? 17:22:44 chris: we define a core language to be extended 17:22:46 ah 17:22:51 +1 17:22:55 q+ 17:22:59 chris: need to define how we extend this core 17:23:18 q+ 17:23:26 harold: e.g. in lisp you have functions for defining new functions 17:23:37 harold: this is not the case for rif 17:23:38 Shouldn't we say "methods for extension"? 17:23:39 ack sandro 17:23:44 q- Harold 17:24:10 harold: we can use different syntactic methods, semantically is much more difficult 17:24:10 +1 to Harold: we need to take both syntactic and semantic aspects into account 17:24:27 We need to distinguish between syntactic and semantic extensions 17:24:29 +1 to josb 17:24:38 sandro: things to be added are to be added by the designers, not by the programmers 17:24:57 q? 17:25:01 csma: we can find a better term than mechanism 17:25:04 s/ers/ers (in a programming-language analogy) 17:25:21 csma: if we define this mechanism 17:25:28 -Evan_Wallace 17:25:37 -uli 17:25:37 Bye 17:25:44 -Gary_Hallmark 17:25:44 Bye 17:25:46 -MarkusK 17:25:46 bye 17:25:47 bye 17:25:48 -johnhall 17:25:50 -Michael_Kifer 17:25:50 -PaulV 17:25:51 -FrankMcCabe 17:25:51 -Harold 17:25:52 -Deborah_Nichols 17:25:53 -Dave_Reynolds 17:25:54 -Donald_Chapin 17:25:55 -josb 17:25:57 -JeffP 17:25:59 -Mala_Mehrotra 17:26:01 - +33.8.72.47.aabb 17:26:03 -LeoraMorgenstern 17:26:05 -[IPcaller] 17:26:07 -Axel_Polleres 17:26:09 -Allen_Ginsberg 17:26:17 RRSAgent, make minutes 17:26:17 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/03/21-rif-minutes.html sandro 17:27:00 bye 17:27:37 bye 17:27:38 -pfps 17:27:40 -David_Hirtle 17:27:42 -PaulaP 17:27:52 -Sandro 17:27:54 -ChrisW 17:27:54 -csma 17:27:55 SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended 17:27:56 Attendees were Allen_Ginsberg, Sandro, csma, josb, Evan_Wallace, DavidHirtle, Axel_Polleres, ChrisW, Philippe_Bonnard, Dave_Reynolds, LeoraMorgenstern, PaulaP, Deborah_Nichols, 17:28:01 ... FrankMcCabe, SaidTabet, pfps, Harold, Mala_Mehrotra, JeffP, MarkusK, Donald_Chapin, Mike_Dean, Jos_De_Roo, johnhall, Gary_Hallmark, StanDevitt, Michael_Kifer, Elisa_Kendall, 17:28:04 ... [IPcaller], uli, PaulV, +33.8.72.47.aabb 17:30:46 aabb was me Mohamed ZERGAOUI 17:31:15 i still discovering the way it works 17:39:14 csma has left #rif 17:39:27 MoZ, why is your last name written in all caps? 17:40:51 Mohamed Zergaoui 17:40:58 Mo...Z... 17:41:45 No, I understand that part. I'm wondering why you said "aabb was me Mohamed ZERGAOUI" instead of "aabb was me Mohamed Zergaoui". 17:42:26 oh sorry a reflex to put names in caps... 17:44:09 It's not a problem -- I'm just not familiar with that convention. 17:44:20 (and I wondered if it meant something in particular.) 17:46:42 sandro, it happens when last names and fist names are close 17:47:03 sandro, in my case, it's not ;-) 17:48:38 So Innovimax is a french start-up? 17:48:58 sandro, yes 17:49:25 Cool. :-) 17:49:37 Innovimax work for the moment for legal publishing and wish to work with pharma 17:58:14 MoZ has joined #rif 18:09:35 DavidHirtle has left #rif 19:34:52 Zakim has left #rif