14:28:31 RRSAgent has joined #dawg 14:28:31 logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/03/21-dawg-irc 14:28:32 Zakim, who's on the phone? 14:28:32 On the phone I see +1.617.894.aaaa 14:28:37 an early bird 14:28:51 +DanC 14:29:10 +??P4 14:29:13 EnricoFranconi has joined #dawg 14:29:14 Zakim, aaaa is LeeF 14:29:14 +LeeF; got it 14:29:18 zakim, ??P4 is I 14:29:18 +AndyS_; got it 14:29:41 agenda + Convene, take roll, review records and agenda 14:29:47 +[IPcaller] 14:29:51 agenda + comments related to rdfSemantics, owlDisjunction 14:29:55 Zakim, [IPcaller] is me 14:29:55 +jeen; got it 14:29:59 agenda + Toward CR: protocol editing, etc. 14:30:02 +[IPcaller] 14:30:06 agenda + Toward CR: exit criteria 14:30:09 Zakim, IPcaller is SteveH 14:30:09 +SteveH; got it 14:30:17 agenda + Toward CR, comments, misc 14:30:28 agenda + MIME type registrations 14:30:34 agenda + test suite maintenance 14:30:40 agenda + JSON results format 14:30:44 +[IPcaller] 14:30:50 zakim, IPcaller is JanneS 14:30:50 +JanneS; got it 14:31:06 EliasT has joined #dawg 14:31:08 SerT has joined #dawg 14:31:09 Meeting: RDF Data Access Weekly 14:31:11 Scribe: JanneS 14:31:13 Chair: DanC 14:31:23 I noticed topic was set to '1400Z' and was worried if I was late for the meeting 14:31:26 kendallclark has joined #dawg 14:31:28 zakim, mute me 14:31:28 SteveH should now be muted 14:31:32 +[IBMCambridge] 14:31:43 Regrets: Libby Miller, Sven Groppe 14:31:50 +Kendall_Clark 14:31:51 Zakim, [IBMCambridge] holds Elias 14:31:51 +Elias; got it 14:31:55 Zakim, IBMCambridge is me 14:31:55 +EliasT; got it 14:32:23 +??P10 14:32:42 Zakim, ??P10 is Souri 14:32:42 +Souri; got it 14:32:49 noted, Jeen 14:33:10 Regrets+ Pat Hayes 14:33:17 +[IPcaller] 14:33:22 zakim, ipcaller is me 14:33:22 +EnricoFranconi; got it 14:33:33 zakim, please dial ericP-617.2 14:33:33 ok, ericP; the call is being made 14:33:34 +EricP 14:33:46 Souri has joined #dawg 14:33:47 Zakim, mute EnricoFranconi 14:33:48 EnricoFranconi should now be muted 14:33:59 Zakim, unmute EnricoFranconi 14:33:59 EnricoFranconi should no longer be muted 14:34:22 zakim, please disconnect ericP 14:34:22 EricP is being disconnected 14:34:24 -EricP 14:34:25 zakim, please dial ericP-617.2 14:34:25 ok, ericP; the call is being made 14:34:26 +EricP 14:34:40 Zakim, who is on the phone? 14:34:40 On the phone I see LeeF, DanC, AndyS_, jeen, SteveH (muted), JanneS, EliasT, Kendall_Clark, Souri, EnricoFranconi, EricP 14:34:43 EliasT has Elias 14:35:21 PROPOSED: to ammend Meeting minutes: March 14th, 2006 to show Elias Torres present and correct the spelling of Souripriya Das, and to approve it, as ammended, as a true record 14:35:29 second 14:35:30 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JanMar/0448.html minutes 14 MAr 14:35:39 so RESOLVED 14:35:47 PROPOSED: to meet again 27 March, 1400Z; recruit scribe; confirm chair 14:36:10 PROPOSED: to meet again 27 March, 1430Z; recruit scribe; confirm chair 14:36:21 Zakim, pick a scribe 14:36:21 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Kendall_Clark 14:36:33 28 March? 14:36:43 PROPOSED: to meet again 28 March, 1430Z; recruit scribe; confirm chair 14:37:01 27 March, 1400Z + 24.5 hours 14:37:05 RESOLVED: to meet 28 March, 1430Z, KendallC to scribe 14:37:20 -SteveH 14:37:22 ACTION: EricP to email the semweb CG about a sparql-dev mailing list. Done; see new mailing list from DanC 9 Mar [DONE] 14:37:24 Souri has joined #dawg 14:37:33 +[IPcaller] 14:37:41 Zakim, IPcaller is me 14:37:41 +SteveH; got it 14:37:46 got kicked off 14:37:49 zakim, mute me 14:37:49 SteveH should now be muted 14:37:55 8 actions done 14:38:30 Topic: public-sparql-dev 14:38:38 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JanMar/0436.html 14:38:54 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sparql-dev/ 14:39:00 EricP: am I the maintainer? 14:39:02 DanC: I hope so 14:41:13 DanC: think about what you need for a CR decision 14:41:26 Zakim, next item 14:41:26 agendum 1. "Convene, take roll, review records and agenda" taken up [from DanC] 14:41:30 Zakim, close item 1 14:41:30 agendum 1, Convene, take roll, review records and agenda, closed 14:41:31 I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 14:41:32 2. comments related to rdfSemantics, owlDisjunction [from DanC] 14:41:34 i found 6 subscribe requests to public-sparql-dev-request@w3.org 14:41:36 Zakim, next item 14:41:36 agendum 2. "comments related to rdfSemantics, owlDisjunction" taken up [from DanC] 14:42:18 ACTION: Enrico to explain definitions in reply to LeeF's questions (done: 28 Feb) [DONE] 14:42:29 ACTION LeeF: to find email thread about wording of restricting pattern solution domain to variables in BGP; follow up on that to get text back into rq23 [CONTINUES] 14:42:39 LeeF: I'm likely to ask to withdraw, based on discussion with AndyS 14:42:55 yes 14:43:14 CTION: SergioT to ask Ian Horrocks if he is satisfied with DAWG resolution of owlDisjunction, in reply to 2005-09-11T21:34:55Z Ian Horrocks DONE 14:43:33 ACTION: LeeF to create test case resulting from 2006-03-03T11:15Z (before lunch, 2nd day) whiteboard discussion 14:43:51 -LeeF 14:43:54 ACTION: SergioT to ask Ian Horrocks if he is satisfied with DAWG resolution of owlDisjunction, in reply to 2005-09-11T21:34:55Z Ian Horrocks [DONE] 14:43:56 LeeF? does that share state with your earlier action? 14:44:09 JanneS, just noticed it was missing the initial 'A' 14:44:26 uh, learning to copy&paste 14:44:32 np 14:44:36 not yet 14:44:58 yes 14:45:09 LeeF's action continued. 14:45:21 ACTION: SergioT to respond to 2005-09-18T15:02:48Z Peter F. Patel-Schneider (overtaken by more recent last call?) [ CONTINUED ] 14:45:46 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JanMar/0021.html 14:46:05 ACTION: SerT to make test case for bnode scope in different BGPs. DONE in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JanMar/0446.html 14:46:15 that's done 14:46:27 I sent the testcases around 14:46:31 yes, thanks 14:46:44 I checked them in 14:47:00 bonus points 14:47:07 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JanMar/0451.html 14:47:35 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/Construct/ 14:47:43 LeeF has joined #dawg 14:48:03 perhaps dawg-construct-identity ? 14:48:13 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/Construct/query-ident.rq 14:48:33 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/Construct/query-reif.rq 14:48:38 second 14:48:49 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/BNodes/query.rq 14:48:51 JosDeRoo has joined #dawg 14:48:54 PROPOSED: to adopt dawg-construct-identity dawg-construct-subgraph dawg-construct-reification 14:49:04 so RESOLVED 14:49:37 testcase for my action is in http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/BNodes/ 14:49:40 Jeen - we ought to email about the subgraph test more clearly 14:49:59 Regrets+ JosDeRoo 14:50:03 ok, Jos 14:50:04 that was about maintaining bnode coreferences in answersets 14:50:18 sergio, is that a different test, related to this agendum? 14:50:30 thanks DanC 14:50:31 andyS, in relation to the requirements you mean? 14:50:33 that was the one mentioned in the action 14:50:47 I added two testcases about construct 14:51:02 but there wasn't a specific action 14:51:33 is dawg-bnode-coreference ready? 14:51:36 AndyS says yes 14:51:42 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/Construct/query-subgraph.rq 14:51:55 That is a new test we needed to cover UC&R 14:52:07 (subgraph requirment) 14:52:07 Jeen 2nds dawg-bnode-coreference (in http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/BNodes/manifest.ttl _ 14:53:30 PROPOSED: to adopt dawg-bnode-coreference (in http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/BNodes/manifest.ttl ) 14:53:46 so RESOLVED. 14:54:58 Zakim, next item 14:54:58 agendum 3. "Toward CR: protocol editing, etc." taken up [from DanC] 14:55:25 ACTION: KC to update protocol references to [SRD] and WSDL [ CONTINUED ] 14:55:26 haven't gotten to it yet 14:55:31 this week hopefully 14:55:39 ACTION: LeeF to try SPARQL WSDL files with Woden validator, report results. [ CONTINUED ] 14:55:46 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2006Feb/0009.html WSD WG comments 14:56:06 zakim, LeeF is with EliasT 14:56:06 +LeeF; got it 14:56:44 LeeF, while you're in the validating mindset, you may want to run the WSDL1.1 through HugoH's 1.1=>2.0 xslt service 14:57:09 yes, I suppose I may want to do that 14:57:10 :-) 14:57:25 of *course* you do 14:58:27 ACTION KC: change query/queryrequest names as requested in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2006Feb/0009.html 14:59:29 (maybe not) 15:00:33 action -10 15:02:35 ACTION KC: confirm that SPARQL WSDL query/queryrequest and maxOccurs do not need to be changed, despite http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2006Feb/0009.html 15:04:09 sure 15:06:09 KC is not aware of any substantive changes to SPARQL WSDL that he's inclined to make 15:06:18 Zakim, next item 15:06:18 agendum 4. "Toward CR: exit criteria" taken up [from DanC] 15:06:56 ACTION: SteveH and AndyS to map approved tests to UC&R features. DONE in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JanMar/0455.html ? 15:07:13 ACTION AndyS: conjure some LIMIT/OFFSET tests 15:07:31 done as fas as im concerned 15:08:21 ACTION: DanC to noodle on SOAP exit criteria [ DONE during teleconf ] 15:08:41 since (a) we have a WSDL requirement, (b) we're resolved to have a test for every requirement by CR exit 15:08:49 Zakim, next item 15:08:49 agendum 5. "Toward CR, comments, misc" taken up [from DanC] 15:09:29 ACTION: DanC to respond to major technical: underspecified errors 15:10:34 DanC: are there still major issues from Oracle? 15:10:49 old last comment status: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2006Mar/att-0022/lc-status-report.html__charset_us-ascii 15:13:27 (Janne, pls note these arguments?) 15:13:29 (or somebody?) 15:13:49 Oracle's implementation elaborated: identifier length problem related to colum name length 15:14:02 -jeen 15:14:33 Souripriya thinks there isn't an issue with this, though. Internal discussions to take place within oracle 15:15:36 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2006Jan/0066.html major technical: underspecified errors 15:15:37 DanC: another issue is the underspecified errors in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2006Jan/0066.html 15:16:07 wow, I can't hear Eric at all. 15:17:21 Kendall: we've rather taken light-weight approach to describing errors (instead of enumerating lots of them) 15:18:19 QL doc defines what SPARQL *is* - if anything gets outside what it *is* then it isn't SPARQL and what happens is not defined by the spec. 15:18:35 DanC: planning to give one week now for organizations to get ready for entering CR 15:18:38 # ACTION: DanC to respond to major technical: underspecified errors [WITHDRAWN] 15:18:53 ACTION: DanC to join the [2005-09-08T01:26:59Z Peter F. Patel-Schneider] thread with PPS's late Feb comments 15:19:19 I guess so 15:19:25 e.g. It's an RDQL query - could choose to find the RDQL parser to be helpful but it's not SPARQL anymore 15:19:43 yes 15:20:23 -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/lc-status-report.html comment status 1.68 15:20:47 ACTION: DanC to join the [2005-09-08T01:26:59Z Peter F. Patel-Schneider] thread with PPS's late Feb comments [WITHDRAWN] 15:21:20 they were legion :0 15:21:23 erp, :> 15:22:33 Kendall: from experience PPS's comments help us find bugs 15:22:52 DanC: PPS's comments could be converted to test cases at best 15:23:19 I'm inclined to mark his comments [needstest], but not critical to CR 15:24:00 ('at best' not good English in my previous note, oh well) 15:24:19 please 15:24:35 # ACTION: EricP to work on [2006-02-24T08:45:23Z Olivier Corby], potentially automating examples2tests progress [CONTINUED ] 15:24:46 ACTION: EricP to work on [2006-02-24T08:45:23Z Olivier Corby], potentially automating examples2tests progress [ CONTINUED ] 15:25:41 # ACTION: SvenG to follow up with Reto Krummenacher on [2006-02-24T16:40:55Z Reto Krummenacher]. Note: the thread is closed as of 14 March [DONE] 15:25:48 ACTION: SvenG to follow up with Reto Krummenacher on [2006-02-24T16:40:55Z Reto Krummenacher]. DONE 15:26:38 -SteveH 15:26:45 ACTION DanC: send [OK?] msg to 2006-02-22T23:56:54Z Peter F. Patel-Schneider on Section 1 and Section 2, basically, [needstest] 15:27:33 sweet! 15:27:35 AndyS: Lee sent OK msg already to that 15:27:45 bonus points to lee http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2006Mar/0001.html 15:27:59 right 15:28:35 -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/crq349 cr request, 1.21 15:28:40 ACTION: DanC to draft request for CR progress: CR request, in progress 15:30:15 1.114 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/proto-wd/Overview.html 15:30:17 are we going beyond 1530Z? 15:30:32 . http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/proto-wd/sparql-protocol-query.wsdl 15:31:12 sparql-protocol-query.wsdl,v 1.17 2006/01/11 19:14:45 15:31:14 +[IPcaller] 15:31:17 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/proto-wd/sparql-protocol-types.xsd 15:31:20 Zakim, IPcaller is SteveH 15:31:20 +SteveH; got it 15:31:29 sparql-protocol-types.xsd,v 1.17 2006/01/11 19:15:22 15:31:35 zakim, mute me 15:31:35 SteveH should now be muted 15:32:50 AndyS: overview, defns, parsers 15:33:04 how about this examples.hmtl that i'm working on? 15:33:29 -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rf1/ results format 1.78 $ of $Date: 2006/01/04 15:59:22 15:33:35 specifically, http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/examples 15:33:36 yes 15:33:40 Overview: 1.664 15:34:00 ok, drop it 15:34:09 right 15:34:12 Defns: v1.3 15:34:32 Parsers: its a directory 15:34:42 DanC: planning to go CR on March-29 15:35:24 i can make a read-only bit in ycaker 15:35:26 yacker 15:36:27 i can vouch for the C and C++ versions as well 15:36:33 yup 15:36:48 ACTION: check in C and C++ generated grammars. 15:37:09 hmm, i guess diff would work 15:37:23 BNF is v1.1 15:37:44 rq23/parsers/sparql.bnf 1.1, concur 15:39:01 currently swapping 15:39:02 Zakim, who's on the phone? 15:39:02 On the phone I see DanC, AndyS_, JanneS, EliasT, Kendall_Clark, Souri, EnricoFranconi, EricP, SteveH (muted) 15:39:04 EliasT has Elias, LeeF 15:39:37 Looking for todo items @@ in http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/crq349 15:43:05 DanC: there are no process requirements for a minimum duration, rather just market acceptance with a reasonable time window such as 2 months 15:43:10 several advise in favor of 30 May 2006 15:43:11 Kendall: 2 months a reasonable minimum 15:43:45 AndyS: we could look for implementations outside the WG members for more credibility 15:43:57 CR exit critera += XQuery F&O to PR 15:44:49 DanC: there is risk that the XQuery dependency will delay our CR 15:45:17 (this scribe should finish in 5 mins, if that's ok) 15:46:11 DanC: @@ XML Query review comments: done 15:46:38 DanC: @@ dependency on WSDL 2.0: Kendall coordinating 15:46:55 I will certainly know for sure before the drop-dead point. 15:47:40 DanC: @@ no changes to protocol since Jan WD: confirmed 15:48:45 Klyne's comment : http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2005Apr/0010.html 15:49:36 does it? cwm? 15:49:47 doing it by quads 15:52:09 bye! 15:52:22 -EnricoFranconi 15:52:23 we failed at any supererogation. big woop. 15:52:25 cwm stores "literal graphs" 15:52:33 got to leave... 15:52:49 "WG will enter the second phase in which it will write a formal specification and test cases for this language." 15:53:31 and "formal specification" is a bit vague 15:54:30 do we have any flowery language anywhere?! :> 15:56:25 I still the the design in the spec. is bad 15:57:14 we don't have to worry about hayes's objection? 15:57:16 cool! 15:57:33 i think unicode prob is solved 15:58:10 he has no new info. all the old info on $ vs ? is still relevent 15:59:15 i've heard *no* complaints from actual implementers or sparql trainers on the ?/$ point. 15:59:24 harold's point notwithstanding 15:59:34 he's only claimed that he thinks this will confuse, not that it confuses. 15:59:46 WBS form http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35463/crq349/ 16:00:09 if steve has a formal objection to SPARQL Query, does he have a formal objection to going to CR? 16:00:26 DanC: in CR WG is still formally obliged to respond to all comments 16:00:28 (danc) 16:00:43 PROPOSED: to advance SPARQL to CR as discussed in this meeting, contingent on successful outcomes of actions in this meeting. 16:00:59 responses to proposal to be gathered via http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35463/crq349/ 16:01:22 you'll get "please fill out the form" notice in email today. 16:01:39 will fill in form 16:02:05 ACTION: Jeen to figure out whether he can become test case editor and report back by telecon on Mar 14 [DONE] 16:02:21 2nd 16:02:22 2nded 16:02:24 ADJOURN. 16:02:32 -Souri 16:02:36 -SteveH 16:02:43 Zakim, who WAS on the phone 16:02:46 I don't understand 'who WAS on the phone', JanneS 16:02:58 -Kendall_Clark 16:03:04 -EricP 16:03:09 Zakim, list attendees 16:03:23 As of this point the attendees have been +1.617.894.aaaa, DanC, LeeF, AndyS_, jeen, SteveH, JanneS, Kendall_Clark, Elias, EliasT, Souri, EnricoFranconi, EricP 16:03:54 -JanneS 16:04:03 Interest here in a RDF/JSON 16:04:27 -EliasT 16:04:33 -DanC 16:04:45 -AndyS_ 16:04:48 AndyS_ has left #dawg 16:04:57 SW_DAWG()9:30AM has ended 16:05:01 Attendees were +1.617.894.aaaa, DanC, LeeF, AndyS_, jeen, SteveH, JanneS, Kendall_Clark, Elias, EliasT, Souri, EnricoFranconi, EricP 16:05:38 RRSAgent, make logs world-access 16:05:45 RRSAgent, pointer? 16:05:45 See http://www.w3.org/2006/03/21-dawg-irc#T16-05-45 16:09:19 JosDeRoo has left #dawg 16:15:56 RRSAgent, stop