IRC log of dawg on 2006-03-21

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:28:31 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #dawg
14:28:31 [RRSAgent]
logging to
14:28:32 [DanC]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
14:28:32 [Zakim]
On the phone I see +1.617.894.aaaa
14:28:37 [DanC]
an early bird
14:28:51 [Zakim]
14:29:10 [Zakim]
14:29:13 [EnricoFranconi]
EnricoFranconi has joined #dawg
14:29:14 [DanC]
Zakim, aaaa is LeeF
14:29:14 [Zakim]
+LeeF; got it
14:29:18 [AndyS_]
zakim, ??P4 is I
14:29:18 [Zakim]
+AndyS_; got it
14:29:41 [DanC]
agenda + Convene, take roll, review records and agenda
14:29:47 [Zakim]
14:29:51 [DanC]
agenda + comments related to rdfSemantics, owlDisjunction
14:29:55 [jeen]
Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
14:29:55 [Zakim]
+jeen; got it
14:29:59 [DanC]
agenda + Toward CR: protocol editing, etc.
14:30:02 [Zakim]
14:30:06 [DanC]
agenda + Toward CR: exit criteria
14:30:09 [SteveH]
Zakim, IPcaller is SteveH
14:30:09 [Zakim]
+SteveH; got it
14:30:17 [DanC]
agenda + Toward CR, comments, misc
14:30:28 [DanC]
agenda + MIME type registrations
14:30:34 [DanC]
agenda + test suite maintenance
14:30:40 [DanC]
agenda + JSON results format
14:30:44 [Zakim]
14:30:50 [JanneS]
zakim, IPcaller is JanneS
14:30:50 [Zakim]
+JanneS; got it
14:31:06 [EliasT]
EliasT has joined #dawg
14:31:08 [SerT]
SerT has joined #dawg
14:31:09 [DanC]
Meeting: RDF Data Access Weekly
14:31:11 [DanC]
Scribe: JanneS
14:31:13 [DanC]
Chair: DanC
14:31:23 [JanneS]
I noticed topic was set to '1400Z' and was worried if I was late for the meeting
14:31:26 [kendallclark]
kendallclark has joined #dawg
14:31:28 [SteveH]
zakim, mute me
14:31:28 [Zakim]
SteveH should now be muted
14:31:32 [Zakim]
14:31:43 [DanC]
Regrets: Libby Miller, Sven Groppe
14:31:50 [Zakim]
14:31:51 [DanC]
Zakim, [IBMCambridge] holds Elias
14:31:51 [Zakim]
+Elias; got it
14:31:55 [EliasT]
Zakim, IBMCambridge is me
14:31:55 [Zakim]
+EliasT; got it
14:32:23 [Zakim]
14:32:42 [DanC]
Zakim, ??P10 is Souri
14:32:42 [Zakim]
+Souri; got it
14:32:49 [DanC]
noted, Jeen
14:33:10 [DanC]
Regrets+ Pat Hayes
14:33:17 [Zakim]
14:33:22 [EnricoFranconi]
zakim, ipcaller is me
14:33:22 [Zakim]
+EnricoFranconi; got it
14:33:33 [ericP]
zakim, please dial ericP-617.2
14:33:33 [Zakim]
ok, ericP; the call is being made
14:33:34 [Zakim]
14:33:46 [Souri]
Souri has joined #dawg
14:33:47 [DanC]
Zakim, mute EnricoFranconi
14:33:48 [Zakim]
EnricoFranconi should now be muted
14:33:59 [DanC]
Zakim, unmute EnricoFranconi
14:33:59 [Zakim]
EnricoFranconi should no longer be muted
14:34:22 [ericP]
zakim, please disconnect ericP
14:34:22 [Zakim]
EricP is being disconnected
14:34:24 [Zakim]
14:34:25 [ericP]
zakim, please dial ericP-617.2
14:34:25 [Zakim]
ok, ericP; the call is being made
14:34:26 [Zakim]
14:34:40 [DanC]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
14:34:40 [Zakim]
On the phone I see LeeF, DanC, AndyS_, jeen, SteveH (muted), JanneS, EliasT, Kendall_Clark, Souri, EnricoFranconi, EricP
14:34:43 [Zakim]
EliasT has Elias
14:35:21 [DanC]
PROPOSED: to ammend Meeting minutes: March 14th, 2006 to show Elias Torres present and correct the spelling of Souripriya Das, and to approve it, as ammended, as a true record
14:35:29 [ericP]
14:35:30 [DanC]
-> minutes 14 MAr
14:35:39 [DanC]
14:35:47 [DanC]
PROPOSED: to meet again 27 March, 1400Z; recruit scribe; confirm chair
14:36:10 [DanC]
PROPOSED: to meet again 27 March, 1430Z; recruit scribe; confirm chair
14:36:21 [DanC]
Zakim, pick a scribe
14:36:21 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Kendall_Clark
14:36:33 [JanneS]
28 March?
14:36:43 [DanC]
PROPOSED: to meet again 28 March, 1430Z; recruit scribe; confirm chair
14:37:01 [ericP]
27 March, 1400Z + 24.5 hours
14:37:05 [DanC]
RESOLVED: to meet 28 March, 1430Z, KendallC to scribe
14:37:20 [Zakim]
14:37:22 [DanC]
ACTION: EricP to email the semweb CG about a sparql-dev mailing list. Done; see new mailing list from DanC 9 Mar [DONE]
14:37:24 [Souri]
Souri has joined #dawg
14:37:33 [Zakim]
14:37:41 [SteveH]
Zakim, IPcaller is me
14:37:41 [Zakim]
+SteveH; got it
14:37:46 [SteveH]
got kicked off
14:37:49 [SteveH]
zakim, mute me
14:37:49 [Zakim]
SteveH should now be muted
14:37:55 [DanC]
8 actions done
14:38:30 [DanC]
Topic: public-sparql-dev
14:38:38 [DanC]
14:38:54 [DanC]
14:39:00 [DanC]
EricP: am I the maintainer?
14:39:02 [DanC]
DanC: I hope so
14:41:13 [DanC]
DanC: think about what you need for a CR decision
14:41:26 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
14:41:26 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Convene, take roll, review records and agenda" taken up [from DanC]
14:41:30 [DanC]
Zakim, close item 1
14:41:30 [Zakim]
agendum 1, Convene, take roll, review records and agenda, closed
14:41:31 [Zakim]
I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:41:32 [Zakim]
2. comments related to rdfSemantics, owlDisjunction [from DanC]
14:41:34 [ericP]
i found 6 subscribe requests to
14:41:36 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
14:41:36 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "comments related to rdfSemantics, owlDisjunction" taken up [from DanC]
14:42:18 [DanC]
ACTION: Enrico to explain definitions in reply to LeeF's questions (done: 28 Feb) [DONE]
14:42:29 [DanC]
ACTION LeeF: to find email thread about wording of restricting pattern solution domain to variables in BGP; follow up on that to get text back into rq23 [CONTINUES]
14:42:39 [DanC]
LeeF: I'm likely to ask to withdraw, based on discussion with AndyS
14:42:55 [SerT]
14:43:14 [JanneS]
CTION: SergioT to ask Ian Horrocks if he is satisfied with DAWG resolution of owlDisjunction, in reply to 2005-09-11T21:34:55Z Ian Horrocks DONE
14:43:33 [JanneS]
ACTION: LeeF to create test case resulting from 2006-03-03T11:15Z (before lunch, 2nd day) whiteboard discussion
14:43:51 [Zakim]
14:43:54 [ericP]
ACTION: SergioT to ask Ian Horrocks if he is satisfied with DAWG resolution of owlDisjunction, in reply to 2005-09-11T21:34:55Z Ian Horrocks [DONE]
14:43:56 [DanC]
LeeF? does that share state with your earlier action?
14:44:09 [ericP]
JanneS, just noticed it was missing the initial 'A'
14:44:26 [JanneS]
uh, learning to copy&paste
14:44:32 [ericP]
14:44:36 [SerT]
not yet
14:44:58 [SerT]
14:45:09 [JanneS]
LeeF's action continued.
14:45:21 [JanneS]
ACTION: SergioT to respond to 2005-09-18T15:02:48Z Peter F. Patel-Schneider (overtaken by more recent last call?) [ CONTINUED ]
14:45:46 [DanC]
14:46:05 [JanneS]
ACTION: SerT to make test case for bnode scope in different BGPs. DONE in
14:46:15 [SerT]
that's done
14:46:27 [SerT]
I sent the testcases around
14:46:31 [DanC]
yes, thanks
14:46:44 [AndyS_]
I checked them in
14:47:00 [DanC]
bonus points
14:47:07 [AndyS_]
14:47:35 [jeen]
14:47:43 [LeeF]
LeeF has joined #dawg
14:48:03 [DanC]
perhaps dawg-construct-identity ?
14:48:13 [AndyS_]
14:48:33 [AndyS_]
14:48:38 [ericP]
14:48:49 [AndyS_]
14:48:51 [JosDeRoo]
JosDeRoo has joined #dawg
14:48:54 [DanC]
PROPOSED: to adopt dawg-construct-identity dawg-construct-subgraph dawg-construct-reification
14:49:04 [DanC]
14:49:37 [SerT]
testcase for my action is in
14:49:40 [AndyS_]
Jeen - we ought to email about the subgraph test more clearly
14:49:59 [DanC]
Regrets+ JosDeRoo
14:50:03 [DanC]
ok, Jos
14:50:04 [SerT]
that was about maintaining bnode coreferences in answersets
14:50:18 [DanC]
sergio, is that a different test, related to this agendum?
14:50:30 [JosDeRoo]
thanks DanC
14:50:31 [jeen]
andyS, in relation to the requirements you mean?
14:50:33 [SerT]
that was the one mentioned in the action
14:50:47 [SerT]
I added two testcases about construct
14:51:02 [SerT]
but there wasn't a specific action
14:51:33 [DanC]
is dawg-bnode-coreference ready?
14:51:36 [DanC]
AndyS says yes
14:51:42 [AndyS_]
14:51:55 [AndyS_]
That is a new test we needed to cover UC&R
14:52:07 [AndyS_]
(subgraph requirment)
14:52:07 [DanC]
Jeen 2nds dawg-bnode-coreference (in _
14:53:30 [DanC]
PROPOSED: to adopt dawg-bnode-coreference (in )
14:53:46 [DanC]
14:54:58 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
14:54:58 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Toward CR: protocol editing, etc." taken up [from DanC]
14:55:25 [JanneS]
ACTION: KC to update protocol references to [SRD] and WSDL [ CONTINUED ]
14:55:26 [LeeF]
haven't gotten to it yet
14:55:31 [LeeF]
this week hopefully
14:55:39 [JanneS]
ACTION: LeeF to try SPARQL WSDL files with Woden validator, report results. [ CONTINUED ]
14:55:46 [DanC]
-> WSD WG comments
14:56:06 [LeeF]
zakim, LeeF is with EliasT
14:56:06 [Zakim]
+LeeF; got it
14:56:44 [ericP]
LeeF, while you're in the validating mindset, you may want to run the WSDL1.1 through HugoH's 1.1=>2.0 xslt service
14:57:09 [LeeF]
yes, I suppose I may want to do that
14:57:10 [LeeF]
14:57:25 [ericP]
of *course* you do
14:58:27 [DanC]
ACTION KC: change query/queryrequest names as requested in
14:59:29 [DanC]
(maybe not)
15:00:33 [DanC]
action -10
15:02:35 [DanC]
ACTION KC: confirm that SPARQL WSDL query/queryrequest and maxOccurs do not need to be changed, despite
15:04:09 [LeeF]
15:06:09 [DanC]
KC is not aware of any substantive changes to SPARQL WSDL that he's inclined to make
15:06:18 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
15:06:18 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Toward CR: exit criteria" taken up [from DanC]
15:06:56 [JanneS]
ACTION: SteveH and AndyS to map approved tests to UC&R features. DONE in ?
15:07:13 [DanC]
ACTION AndyS: conjure some LIMIT/OFFSET tests
15:07:31 [SteveH]
done as fas as im concerned
15:08:21 [JanneS]
ACTION: DanC to noodle on SOAP exit criteria [ DONE during teleconf ]
15:08:41 [DanC]
since (a) we have a WSDL requirement, (b) we're resolved to have a test for every requirement by CR exit
15:08:49 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
15:08:49 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "Toward CR, comments, misc" taken up [from DanC]
15:09:29 [JanneS]
ACTION: DanC to respond to major technical: underspecified errors
15:10:34 [JanneS]
DanC: are there still major issues from Oracle?
15:10:49 [DanC]
old last comment status:
15:13:27 [DanC]
(Janne, pls note these arguments?)
15:13:29 [DanC]
(or somebody?)
15:13:49 [JanneS]
Oracle's implementation elaborated: identifier length problem related to colum name length
15:14:02 [Zakim]
15:14:33 [JanneS]
Souripriya thinks there isn't an issue with this, though. Internal discussions to take place within oracle
15:15:36 [DanC]
-> major technical: underspecified errors
15:15:37 [JanneS]
DanC: another issue is the underspecified errors in
15:16:07 [kendallclark]
wow, I can't hear Eric at all.
15:17:21 [JanneS]
Kendall: we've rather taken light-weight approach to describing errors (instead of enumerating lots of them)
15:18:19 [AndyS_]
QL doc defines what SPARQL *is* - if anything gets outside what it *is* then it isn't SPARQL and what happens is not defined by the spec.
15:18:35 [JanneS]
DanC: planning to give one week now for organizations to get ready for entering CR
15:18:38 [DanC]
# ACTION: DanC to respond to major technical: underspecified errors [WITHDRAWN]
15:18:53 [DanC]
ACTION: DanC to join the [2005-09-08T01:26:59Z Peter F. Patel-Schneider] thread with PPS's late Feb comments
15:19:19 [EnricoFranconi]
I guess so
15:19:25 [AndyS_]
e.g. It's an RDQL query - could choose to find the RDQL parser to be helpful but it's not SPARQL anymore
15:19:43 [EnricoFranconi]
15:20:23 [DanC]
-> comment status 1.68
15:20:47 [DanC]
ACTION: DanC to join the [2005-09-08T01:26:59Z Peter F. Patel-Schneider] thread with PPS's late Feb comments [WITHDRAWN]
15:21:20 [kendallclark]
they were legion :0
15:21:23 [kendallclark]
erp, :>
15:22:33 [JanneS]
Kendall: from experience PPS's comments help us find bugs
15:22:52 [JanneS]
DanC: PPS's comments could be converted to test cases at best
15:23:19 [DanC]
I'm inclined to mark his comments [needstest], but not critical to CR
15:24:00 [JanneS]
('at best' not good English in my previous note, oh well)
15:24:19 [ericP]
15:24:35 [JanneS]
# ACTION: EricP to work on [2006-02-24T08:45:23Z Olivier Corby], potentially automating examples2tests progress [CONTINUED ]
15:24:46 [JanneS]
ACTION: EricP to work on [2006-02-24T08:45:23Z Olivier Corby], potentially automating examples2tests progress [ CONTINUED ]
15:25:41 [DanC]
# ACTION: SvenG to follow up with Reto Krummenacher on [2006-02-24T16:40:55Z Reto Krummenacher]. Note: the thread is closed as of 14 March [DONE]
15:25:48 [JanneS]
ACTION: SvenG to follow up with Reto Krummenacher on [2006-02-24T16:40:55Z Reto Krummenacher]. DONE
15:26:38 [Zakim]
15:26:45 [DanC]
ACTION DanC: send [OK?] msg to 2006-02-22T23:56:54Z Peter F. Patel-Schneider on Section 1 and Section 2, basically, [needstest]
15:27:33 [ericP]
15:27:35 [JanneS]
AndyS: Lee sent OK msg already to that
15:27:45 [DanC]
bonus points to lee
15:27:59 [LeeF]
15:28:35 [DanC]
-> cr request, 1.21
15:28:40 [JanneS]
ACTION: DanC to draft request for CR progress: CR request, in progress
15:30:15 [DanC]
15:30:17 [SteveH]
are we going beyond 1530Z?
15:30:32 [DanC]
15:31:12 [DanC]
sparql-protocol-query.wsdl,v 1.17 2006/01/11 19:14:45
15:31:14 [Zakim]
15:31:17 [DanC]
15:31:20 [SteveH]
Zakim, IPcaller is SteveH
15:31:20 [Zakim]
+SteveH; got it
15:31:29 [DanC]
sparql-protocol-types.xsd,v 1.17 2006/01/11 19:15:22
15:31:35 [SteveH]
zakim, mute me
15:31:35 [Zakim]
SteveH should now be muted
15:32:50 [DanC]
AndyS: overview, defns, parsers
15:33:04 [ericP]
how about this examples.hmtl that i'm working on?
15:33:29 [DanC]
-> results format 1.78 $ of $Date: 2006/01/04 15:59:22
15:33:35 [ericP]
15:33:36 [ericP]
15:33:40 [AndyS_]
Overview: 1.664
15:34:00 [ericP]
ok, drop it
15:34:09 [ericP]
15:34:12 [AndyS_]
Defns: v1.3
15:34:32 [AndyS_]
Parsers: its a directory
15:34:42 [JanneS]
DanC: planning to go CR on March-29
15:35:24 [ericP]
i can make a read-only bit in ycaker
15:35:26 [ericP]
15:36:27 [ericP]
i can vouch for the C and C++ versions as well
15:36:33 [ericP]
15:36:48 [DanC]
ACTION: check in C and C++ generated grammars.
15:37:09 [ericP]
hmm, i guess diff would work
15:37:23 [AndyS_]
BNF is v1.1
15:37:44 [DanC]
rq23/parsers/sparql.bnf 1.1, concur
15:39:01 [EliasT]
currently swapping
15:39:02 [DanC]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:39:02 [Zakim]
On the phone I see DanC, AndyS_, JanneS, EliasT, Kendall_Clark, Souri, EnricoFranconi, EricP, SteveH (muted)
15:39:04 [Zakim]
EliasT has Elias, LeeF
15:39:37 [JanneS]
Looking for todo items @@ in
15:43:05 [JanneS]
DanC: there are no process requirements for a minimum duration, rather just market acceptance with a reasonable time window such as 2 months
15:43:10 [DanC]
several advise in favor of 30 May 2006
15:43:11 [JanneS]
Kendall: 2 months a reasonable minimum
15:43:45 [JanneS]
AndyS: we could look for implementations outside the WG members for more credibility
15:43:57 [DanC]
CR exit critera += XQuery F&O to PR
15:44:49 [JanneS]
DanC: there is risk that the XQuery dependency will delay our CR
15:45:17 [JanneS]
(this scribe should finish in 5 mins, if that's ok)
15:46:11 [JanneS]
DanC: @@ XML Query review comments: done
15:46:38 [JanneS]
DanC: @@ dependency on WSDL 2.0: Kendall coordinating
15:46:55 [kendallclark]
I will certainly know for sure before the drop-dead point.
15:47:40 [JanneS]
DanC: @@ no changes to protocol since Jan WD: confirmed
15:48:45 [JanneS]
Klyne's comment :
15:49:36 [ericP]
does it? cwm?
15:49:47 [ericP]
doing it by quads
15:52:09 [EnricoFranconi]
15:52:22 [Zakim]
15:52:23 [kendallclark]
we failed at any supererogation. big woop.
15:52:25 [AndyS_]
cwm stores "literal graphs"
15:52:33 [SerT]
got to leave...
15:52:49 [DanC]
"WG will enter the second phase in which it will write a formal specification and test cases for this language."
15:53:31 [kendallclark]
and "formal specification" is a bit vague
15:54:30 [kendallclark]
do we have any flowery language anywhere?! :>
15:56:25 [SteveH]
I still the the design in the spec. is bad
15:57:14 [ericP]
we don't have to worry about hayes's objection?
15:57:16 [ericP]
15:57:33 [ericP]
i think unicode prob is solved
15:58:10 [ericP]
he has no new info. all the old info on $ vs ? is still relevent
15:59:15 [kendallclark]
i've heard *no* complaints from actual implementers or sparql trainers on the ?/$ point.
15:59:24 [kendallclark]
harold's point notwithstanding
15:59:34 [kendallclark]
he's only claimed that he thinks this will confuse, not that it confuses.
15:59:46 [DanC]
WBS form
16:00:09 [ericP]
if steve has a formal objection to SPARQL Query, does he have a formal objection to going to CR?
16:00:26 [JanneS]
DanC: in CR WG is still formally obliged to respond to all comments
16:00:28 [ericP]
16:00:43 [DanC]
PROPOSED: to advance SPARQL to CR as discussed in this meeting, contingent on successful outcomes of actions in this meeting.
16:00:59 [DanC]
responses to proposal to be gathered via
16:01:22 [DanC]
you'll get "please fill out the form" notice in email today.
16:01:39 [SteveH]
will fill in form
16:02:05 [DanC]
ACTION: Jeen to figure out whether he can become test case editor and report back by telecon on Mar 14 [DONE]
16:02:21 [ericP]
16:02:22 [JanneS]
16:02:24 [DanC]
16:02:32 [Zakim]
16:02:36 [Zakim]
16:02:43 [JanneS]
Zakim, who WAS on the phone
16:02:46 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who WAS on the phone', JanneS
16:02:58 [Zakim]
16:03:04 [Zakim]
16:03:09 [LeeF]
Zakim, list attendees
16:03:23 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been +1.617.894.aaaa, DanC, LeeF, AndyS_, jeen, SteveH, JanneS, Kendall_Clark, Elias, EliasT, Souri, EnricoFranconi, EricP
16:03:54 [Zakim]
16:04:03 [AndyS_]
Interest here in a RDF/JSON
16:04:27 [Zakim]
16:04:33 [Zakim]
16:04:45 [Zakim]
16:04:48 [AndyS_]
AndyS_ has left #dawg
16:04:57 [Zakim]
SW_DAWG()9:30AM has ended
16:05:01 [Zakim]
Attendees were +1.617.894.aaaa, DanC, LeeF, AndyS_, jeen, SteveH, JanneS, Kendall_Clark, Elias, EliasT, Souri, EnricoFranconi, EricP
16:05:38 [DanC]
RRSAgent, make logs world-access
16:05:45 [DanC]
RRSAgent, pointer?
16:05:45 [RRSAgent]
16:09:19 [JosDeRoo]
JosDeRoo has left #dawg
16:15:56 [DanC]
RRSAgent, stop