IRC log of htmltf on 2006-03-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:58:47 [RRSAgent]

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13:58:47 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-irc

13:58:50 [RalphS]

Meeting: RDF-in-XHTML TF

13:59:00 [RalphS]

Meeting: RDF-in-XHTML TF

14:00:18 [benadida]

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14:00:31 [Steven]

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14:01:00 [Steven]

zakim, who is here?

14:01:02 [Zakim]

SW_BPD(rdfxhtml)9:00AM has not yet started, Steven

14:01:04 [Zakim]

On IRC I see Steven, benadida, RRSAgent, Zakim, RalphS

14:01:07 [Zakim]

SW_BPD(rdfxhtml)9:00AM has now started

14:01:10 [Zakim]

+Ralph

14:01:32 [RalphS]

Previous: 2006-03-06 http://www.w3.org/2006/03/06-htmltf-minutes

14:01:32 [Zakim]

+Ben_Adida

14:01:34 [Zakim]

-Ben_Adida

14:01:35 [Zakim]

+Ben_Adida

14:01:44 [RalphS]

Regrets: Jeremy

14:03:26 [Steven]

zakim, dial steven-617

14:03:26 [Zakim]

ok, Steven; the call is being made

14:03:27 [Zakim]

+Steven

14:07:26 [Zakim]

+??P7

14:07:47 [RalphS]

zakim, ??p7 is MarkB

14:07:47 [Zakim]

+MarkB; got it

14:07:50 [MarkB_]

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14:11:10 [RalphS]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2006Mar/0045.html

14:13:55 [RalphS]

Topic: Action Items Reviews

14:14:07 [RalphS]

[PENDING] ACTION: Mark work on a first draft of an RDF/A XHTML 1.1 module [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/06-htmltf-minutes.html#action01]

14:14:19 [RalphS]

Mark: did some work but not ready to send it

14:14:48 [RalphS]

ACTION: Jeremy look into the XHTML namespace issue and write thoughts into email [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/06-htmltf-minutes.html#action02]... next

14:15:01 [RalphS]

continues

14:15:23 [RalphS]

ACTION: Ben talk off-line with Jeremy about a realistic implementation schedule [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-htmltf-minutes.html#action01]

14:15:25 [RalphS]

-- continues

14:15:36 [RalphS]

(we don't have a schedule yet, so keep this open)

14:15:40 [RalphS]

ACTION: Ben to draft full response to Bjoern's 2004 email [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/24-swbp-minutes.html#action03]

14:15:43 [RalphS]

-- continues

14:16:08 [RalphS]

Ben: I circulated a draft off-list last night but it had some old material in it

14:16:21 [RalphS]

-- continues

14:17:00 [RalphS]

ACTION: Mark, Steven, and Ralph respond to Ben's off-list draft of response to Bjoern

14:17:05 [RalphS]

ACTION: Jeremy followup on edge case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action03]

14:17:07 [RalphS]

-- continues

14:17:13 [RalphS]

ACTION: Jeremy followup with Mark on the question of multiple triples from nested meta and add to issues list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action01]

14:17:15 [RalphS]

-- continues

14:17:18 [RalphS]

ACTION: Jeremy propose wording on reification [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action02]

14:17:20 [RalphS]

-- continues

14:17:24 [RalphS]

ACTION: once Steven sends editors' draft of XHTML2, all TF members take a look and comment on showstopper issues only [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/06-htmltf-minutes.html#action01]

14:17:27 [RalphS]

-- continues

14:17:48 [RalphS]

Steven: had to spend all week on XForms document

14:18:07 [RalphS]

[DONE] ACTION: Ralph add a sentence to 2.2.3 pointing to a citation for the triples syntax [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/13-htmltf-minutes.html#action09]

14:19:44 [RalphS]

ACTION: Steven draft a WWW2006 Developer's Track proposal [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-htmltf-minutes.html#action16]

14:19:49 [RalphS]

-- continues

14:20:15 [RalphS]

Ben: my travel funding not yet fully resolved but I've been told I will be able to attend WWW2006

14:21:16 [RalphS]

Mark: Mark Seaborne is managing the XForms issues list, so his interest in RDF/A is valuable.

14:21:25 [RalphS]

... MarkS also lives in Edinburgh

14:22:05 [RalphS]

Ben: should the talk be a 'coming out' party for RDF/A -- showing what it is, or should it focus on applications of RDF/A?

14:22:24 [RalphS]

Steven: Dev Track talks could be lightning talks or could be longer; it's up to us

14:23:09 [RalphS]

Mark: my XTech talk proposal on RDF/A was accepted; it will be on building metadata applications

14:23:23 [RalphS]

... I expect to include demos

14:23:29 [RalphS]

... XTech is the week before WWW2006

14:24:23 [RalphS]

... Sidewinder implementation is coming along; I may include lots of demos

14:24:37 [RalphS]

Ben: I've been looking into greasemonkey more

14:25:01 [RalphS]

... I may be able to show bookmarklet triples popping up as you browse

14:25:31 [RalphS]

... but I'm having trouble in IE pulling out LINK and META from the DOM tree since they don't validate

14:25:55 [RalphS]

... LINK and META in the body disappear from the DOM in FireFox and Safari

14:25:59 [RalphS]

s/in IE//

14:26:09 [RalphS]

Mark: have you tried in HTML mode?

14:26:22 [RalphS]

Ben: I'll check this

14:26:27 [RalphS]

s/HTML/XHTML/

14:26:46 [RalphS]

Mark: in XHTML mode it's supposed to leave elements that are in foreign namespaces

14:27:01 [RalphS]

ACTION: Ben update his bookmarklet for XHTML mode

14:27:39 [RalphS]

Ben: my bookmarklet test data is stuff on my home page

14:27:59 [RalphS]

... plus Uniprot data as it has CC license data

14:28:26 [RalphS]

... it's interesting to see what is extracted from blogs that have a lot of microformat markup

14:28:59 [RalphS]

Mark: FormsPlayer permits sidebars to be built

14:29:18 [RalphS]

... so I can show metadata changing in the sidebar as you browse

14:29:21 [benadida]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2006Mar/0010.html

14:29:28 [benadida]

another page:

14:29:32 [benadida]

http://joi.ito.com

14:29:48 [RalphS]

Ben: Joi Ito's blog has a lot of microformat markup

14:31:22 [Zakim]

RalphS, you wanted to talk about shutr.net

14:33:47 [Steven]

http://www2006.org/developers/

14:34:05 [RalphS]

Ralph: duration of WWW2006 talk? I suggest 30-45 mins.

14:35:09 [RalphS]

Steven: [reading from WWW2006 Dev Track CFP] microformats and SemWeb technologies are considered horizontal technologies

14:36:39 [RalphS]

-> http://www2006.org/programme/ WWW2006 Program

14:38:56 [RalphS]

Mark: perhaps propose 2 talks: one describing the language and another with lots of demos

14:39:25 [RalphS]

Ben: solicitation suggests limit of 20 mins per presentation

14:40:19 [RalphS]

ACTION: Ben draft WWW2006 proposal for talk describing RDF/A language

14:41:09 [RalphS]

ACTION: Mark draft WWW2006 proposal for RDF/A demos talk

14:41:31 [Steven]

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14:42:06 [RalphS]

Ben: I think of 3 interesting demos;

14:42:16 [RalphS]

... 1. with a special browser such as FormsPlayer

14:42:25 [RalphS]

... 2. with a language like NewsML

14:42:45 [RalphS]

... 3. with greasemonkey showing that there are current applications that are very close to being RDF/A capable

14:43:34 [RalphS]

Mark: piggybank is another option; it just needs XSLT integration

14:44:25 [RalphS]

s/a language like NewsML/news readers/

14:44:41 [RalphS]

ACTION: Ben start separate mail threads on remaining discussion topics [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action04]

14:44:42 [RalphS]

-- continues

14:45:03 [RalphS]

Mark: I'll write a talk proposal based on those 3 threads

14:45:08 [benadida]

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/HTML/2005-current-issues

14:45:20 [RalphS]

Topic: Issues Review

14:45:26 [benadida]

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/HTML/2005-current-issues#reification-any

14:45:39 [RalphS]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2006Feb/0039 Current Outstanding Issues - Updated [Ben 2006-02-24]

14:46:10 [RalphS]

Ben: issue 8 was a crazy idea I had; given what we think about reification these days I'm prepared to retract it

14:46:34 [RalphS]

-> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/HTML/2005-current-issues#reification-any 8. Reifying Any Statement, not just link or meta.

14:47:04 [RalphS]

Ralph: propose to defer issue 8 to version 2

14:47:23 [RalphS]

Mark: not clear the example in the issues list is a reified statement anyway

14:47:57 [RalphS]

Ralph: where "version 2" means some future version of the language

14:48:08 [RalphS]

RESOLVED: issue 8 deferred

14:48:24 [benadida]

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/HTML/2005-current-issues#predicate-inheritance

14:48:33 [RalphS]

-> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/HTML/2005-current-issues#predicate-inheritance 10. Predicate Inheritance

14:48:51 [RalphS]

Ben: the idea in issue 10 was that the rel on the UL applied to all the LIs

14:49:00 [RalphS]

... not clear we see a big need for this particular feature

14:49:55 [RalphS]

Ralph: I think generally we should not add inheritance unless there's a clear need

14:50:09 [RalphS]

... inheritance adds complexity

14:50:25 [Steven]

I think I agree that only about inherits

14:50:32 [RalphS]

Mark: in this example hrefs are contained within an element

14:50:42 [RalphS]

... in the original whitepaper there was lots of inheritance

14:50:53 [RalphS]

... this did get tricky for some people so I don't mind leaving it out

14:51:15 [RalphS]

Steven: when I tried this out a while ago I came to the conclusion that only 'about' should inherit

14:51:24 [RalphS]

... otherwise there are lots of unexpected effects

14:51:30 [RalphS]

RESOLVED: issue 10 defered

14:51:37 [RalphS]

s/defered/withdrawn/

14:51:59 [RalphS]

RESOLVED: issue 10 closed; no additional inheritance

14:52:20 [RalphS]

Ben: open issues are linked from the top of the issues list

14:52:29 [RalphS]

-> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/HTML/2005-current-issues issues lise

14:52:41 [RalphS]

Topic: Marketing Plan

14:53:06 [RalphS]

Ben: we talked about a repository of schemas & ontologies

14:53:27 [RalphS]

... that's part of a larger Sem Web Activity issue, so let's defer that in the TF

14:54:09 [RalphS]

... but I'd like to see a marketing page pointing to RDF/A examples

14:54:12 [MarkB_]

skimstone.x-port.net

14:54:24 [RalphS]

Mark: I have a site using drupal

14:54:43 [RalphS]

... has forms, RSS feeds from XForms blogs

14:54:56 [RalphS]

... central idea is showing use of W3C languages to generate applications

14:55:04 [RalphS]

... XForms + SVG + ...

14:55:13 [RalphS]

... we're going to put examples of sidebars here

14:55:22 [RalphS]

... will probably be very techy-oriented

14:55:38 [RalphS]

... also likely to have RDF/A tutorials there

14:56:02 [RalphS]

... may be too techy to be the main site for RDF/A marketing

14:56:48 [RalphS]

Ralph: separate from w3.org ?

14:57:12 [RalphS]

Ben: yes, I think an RDF/A marketing effort separate from W3C could help

14:57:56 [RalphS]

... I'm willing to put in some time to set up a site on another Web hosting facility

14:58:36 [RalphS]

Mark: this feels along the lines of CSS zen garden

14:59:39 [RalphS]

... it's the community kicking-in and helping

15:01:17 [Zakim]

-Ralph

15:01:36 [benadida]

MarkB: we should coordinate to figure out the message, what the site would look like

15:02:04 [benadida]

... when we did the xforms wiki, we had trouble making the structure "feel right."

15:02:22 [benadida]

... should this be just a blog? something more?

15:02:46 [benadida]

... there are lots of ways to do this

15:02:47 [RalphS]

rrsagent, please make this record public

15:02:50 [benadida]

... it has to be easy to update

15:03:08 [benadida]

... otherwise it will be easy to update

15:03:25 [benadida]

s/easy to update/stagant/

15:03:30 [benadida]

s/stagant/stagnant

15:05:00 [benadida]

ACTION: Ben to develop a plan for a marketing/news web site about RDF/A and send it to the list

15:06:56 [Zakim]

-Steven

15:07:00 [Zakim]

-MarkB

15:07:02 [Zakim]

SW_BPD(rdfxhtml)9:00AM has ended

15:07:05 [Zakim]

Attendees were Ralph, Ben_Adida, Steven, MarkB

15:07:20 [Steven]

"redflag" contains the characters r d f a in order

15:07:43 [Steven]

(thinking of alternate names)

15:25:06 [RalphS]

rrsagent, please draft minutes

15:25:06 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-minutes.html RalphS

15:25:10 [benadida]

benadida has left #htmltf

15:36:12 [MarkB_]

redflag to the microformat bull, you mean? :)

16:18:12 [Steven]

swordfish - semantics without RDF in standard HTML

16:39:12 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #htmltf

17:40:07 [RalphS]

rrsagent, bye

17:40:07 [RRSAgent]

I see 14 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-actions.rdf :

17:40:07 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Jeremy look into the XHTML namespace issue and write thoughts into email [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/06-htmltf-minutes.html#action02]... next [1]

17:40:07 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-irc#T14-14-48

17:40:07 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ben talk off-line with Jeremy about a realistic implementation schedule [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-htmltf-minutes.html#action01] [2]

17:40:07 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-irc#T14-15-23

17:40:07 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ben to draft full response to Bjoern's 2004 email [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/24-swbp-minutes.html#action03] [3]

17:40:07 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-irc#T14-15-40

17:40:07 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Mark, Steven, and Ralph respond to Ben's off-list draft of response to Bjoern [4]

17:40:07 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-irc#T14-17-00

17:40:07 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Jeremy followup on edge case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action03] [5]

17:40:07 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-irc#T14-17-05

17:40:07 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Jeremy followup with Mark on the question of multiple triples from nested meta and add to issues list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action01] [6]

17:40:07 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-irc#T14-17-13

17:40:07 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Jeremy propose wording on reification [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action02] [7]

17:40:07 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-irc#T14-17-18

17:40:07 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: once Steven sends editors' draft of XHTML2, all TF members take a look and comment on showstopper issues only [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/06-htmltf-minutes.html#action01] [8]

17:40:07 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-irc#T14-17-24

17:40:07 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Steven draft a WWW2006 Developer's Track proposal [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-htmltf-minutes.html#action16] [9]

17:40:07 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-irc#T14-19-44

17:40:07 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ben update his bookmarklet for XHTML mode [10]

17:40:07 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-irc#T14-27-01

17:40:07 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ben draft WWW2006 proposal for talk describing RDF/A language [11]

17:40:07 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-irc#T14-40-19

17:40:07 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Mark draft WWW2006 proposal for RDF/A demos talk [12]

17:40:07 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-irc#T14-41-09

17:40:07 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ben start separate mail threads on remaining discussion topics [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action04] [13]

17:40:07 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-irc#T14-44-41

17:40:07 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ben to develop a plan for a marketing/news web site about RDF/A and send it to the list [14]

17:40:07 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-irc#T15-05-00