13:58:47 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #htmltf
13:58:47 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-irc
13:58:50 <RalphS> Meeting: RDF-in-XHTML TF
13:59:00 <RalphS> Meeting: RDF-in-XHTML TF
14:00:18 <benadida> benadida has joined #htmltf
14:00:31 <Steven> Steven has joined #htmltf
14:01:00 <Steven> zakim, who is here?
14:01:02 <Zakim> SW_BPD(rdfxhtml)9:00AM has not yet started, Steven
14:01:04 <Zakim> On IRC I see Steven, benadida, RRSAgent, Zakim, RalphS
14:01:07 <Zakim> SW_BPD(rdfxhtml)9:00AM has now started
14:01:10 <Zakim> +Ralph
14:01:32 <RalphS> Previous: 2006-03-06 http://www.w3.org/2006/03/06-htmltf-minutes
14:01:32 <Zakim> +Ben_Adida
14:01:34 <Zakim> -Ben_Adida
14:01:35 <Zakim> +Ben_Adida
14:01:44 <RalphS> Regrets: Jeremy
14:03:26 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
14:03:26 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
14:03:27 <Zakim> +Steven
14:07:26 <Zakim> +??P7
14:07:47 <RalphS> zakim, ??p7 is MarkB
14:07:47 <Zakim> +MarkB; got it
14:07:50 <MarkB_> MarkB_ has joined #htmltf
14:11:10 <RalphS> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2006Mar/0045.html
14:13:55 <RalphS> Topic: Action Items Reviews
14:14:07 <RalphS> [PENDING] ACTION: Mark work on a first draft of an RDF/A XHTML 1.1 module [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/06-htmltf-minutes.html#action01]
14:14:19 <RalphS> Mark: did some work but not ready to send it
14:14:48 <RalphS> ACTION: Jeremy look into the XHTML namespace issue and write thoughts into email [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/06-htmltf-minutes.html#action02]... next 
14:15:01 <RalphS> continues
14:15:23 <RalphS> ACTION: Ben talk off-line with Jeremy about a realistic implementation schedule [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-htmltf-minutes.html#action01]
14:15:25 <RalphS> -- continues
14:15:36 <RalphS> (we don't have a schedule yet, so keep this open)
14:15:40 <RalphS> ACTION: Ben to draft full response to Bjoern's 2004 email [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/24-swbp-minutes.html#action03]
14:15:43 <RalphS> -- continues
14:16:08 <RalphS> Ben: I circulated a draft off-list last night but it had some old material in it
14:16:21 <RalphS> -- continues
14:17:00 <RalphS> ACTION: Mark, Steven, and Ralph respond to Ben's off-list draft of response to Bjoern
14:17:05 <RalphS> ACTION: Jeremy followup on edge case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action03]
14:17:07 <RalphS> -- continues
14:17:13 <RalphS> ACTION: Jeremy followup with Mark on the question of multiple triples from nested meta and add to issues list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action01]
14:17:15 <RalphS> -- continues
14:17:18 <RalphS> ACTION: Jeremy propose wording on reification [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action02]
14:17:20 <RalphS> -- continues
14:17:24 <RalphS> ACTION: once Steven sends editors' draft of XHTML2, all TF members take a look and comment on showstopper issues only [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/06-htmltf-minutes.html#action01]
14:17:27 <RalphS> -- continues
14:17:48 <RalphS> Steven: had to spend all week on XForms document
14:18:07 <RalphS> [DONE] ACTION: Ralph add a sentence to 2.2.3 pointing to a citation for the triples syntax [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/13-htmltf-minutes.html#action09]
14:19:44 <RalphS> ACTION: Steven draft a WWW2006 Developer's Track proposal [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-htmltf-minutes.html#action16]
14:19:49 <RalphS> -- continues
14:20:15 <RalphS> Ben: my travel funding not yet fully resolved but I've been told I will be able to attend WWW2006
14:21:16 <RalphS> Mark: Mark Seaborne is managing the XForms issues list, so his interest in RDF/A is valuable.
14:21:25 <RalphS> ... MarkS also lives in Edinburgh
14:22:05 <RalphS> Ben: should the talk be a 'coming out' party for RDF/A -- showing what it is, or should it focus on applications of RDF/A?
14:22:24 <RalphS> Steven: Dev Track talks could be lightning talks or could be longer; it's up to us
14:23:09 <RalphS> Mark: my XTech talk proposal on RDF/A was accepted; it will be on building metadata applications
14:23:23 <RalphS> ... I expect to include demos
14:23:29 <RalphS> ... XTech is the week before WWW2006
14:24:23 <RalphS> ... Sidewinder implementation is coming along; I may include lots of demos
14:24:37 <RalphS> Ben: I've been looking into greasemonkey more
14:25:01 <RalphS> ... I may be able to show bookmarklet triples popping up as you browse
14:25:31 <RalphS> ... but I'm having trouble in IE pulling out LINK and META from the DOM tree since they don't validate
14:25:55 <RalphS> ... LINK and META in the body disappear from the DOM in FireFox and Safari
14:25:59 <RalphS> s/in IE//
14:26:09 <RalphS> Mark: have you tried in HTML mode?
14:26:22 <RalphS> Ben: I'll check this
14:26:27 <RalphS> s/HTML/XHTML/
14:26:46 <RalphS> Mark: in XHTML mode it's supposed to leave elements that are in foreign namespaces
14:27:01 <RalphS> ACTION: Ben update his bookmarklet for XHTML mode
14:27:39 <RalphS> Ben: my bookmarklet test data is stuff on my home page
14:27:59 <RalphS> ... plus Uniprot data as it has CC license data
14:28:26 <RalphS> ... it's interesting to see what is extracted from blogs that have a lot of microformat markup
14:28:59 <RalphS> Mark: FormsPlayer permits sidebars to be built
14:29:18 <RalphS> ... so I can show metadata changing in the sidebar as you browse
14:29:21 <benadida> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2006Mar/0010.html
14:29:28 <benadida> another page:
14:29:32 <benadida> http://joi.ito.com
14:29:48 <RalphS> Ben: Joi Ito's blog has a lot of microformat markup
14:31:22 <Zakim> RalphS, you wanted to talk about shutr.net
14:33:47 <Steven> http://www2006.org/developers/
14:34:05 <RalphS> Ralph: duration of WWW2006 talk? I suggest 30-45 mins.
14:35:09 <RalphS> Steven: [reading from WWW2006 Dev Track CFP] microformats and SemWeb technologies are considered horizontal technologies
14:36:39 <RalphS> -> http://www2006.org/programme/ WWW2006 Program
14:38:56 <RalphS> Mark: perhaps propose 2 talks: one describing the language and another with lots of demos
14:39:25 <RalphS> Ben: solicitation suggests limit of 20 mins per presentation
14:40:19 <RalphS> ACTION: Ben draft WWW2006 proposal for talk describing RDF/A language
14:41:09 <RalphS> ACTION: Mark draft WWW2006 proposal for RDF/A demos talk
14:41:31 <Steven> Steven has joined #htmltf
14:42:06 <RalphS> Ben: I think of 3 interesting demos;
14:42:16 <RalphS> ... 1. with a special browser such as FormsPlayer
14:42:25 <RalphS> ... 2. with a language like NewsML
14:42:45 <RalphS> ... 3. with greasemonkey showing that there are current applications that are very close to being RDF/A capable
14:43:34 <RalphS> Mark: piggybank is another option; it just needs XSLT integration
14:44:25 <RalphS> s/a language like NewsML/news readers/
14:44:41 <RalphS> ACTION: Ben start separate mail threads on remaining discussion topics [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action04]
14:44:42 <RalphS> -- continues
14:45:03 <RalphS> Mark: I'll write a talk proposal based on those 3 threads
14:45:08 <benadida> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/HTML/2005-current-issues
14:45:20 <RalphS> Topic: Issues Review
14:45:26 <benadida> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/HTML/2005-current-issues#reification-any
14:45:39 <RalphS> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2006Feb/0039 Current Outstanding Issues - Updated [Ben 2006-02-24]
14:46:10 <RalphS> Ben: issue 8 was a crazy idea I had; given what we think about reification these days I'm prepared to retract it
14:46:34 <RalphS> -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/HTML/2005-current-issues#reification-any 8. Reifying Any Statement, not just link or meta.
14:47:04 <RalphS> Ralph: propose to defer issue 8 to version 2
14:47:23 <RalphS> Mark: not clear the example in the issues list is a reified statement anyway
14:47:57 <RalphS> Ralph: where "version 2" means some future version of the language
14:48:08 <RalphS> RESOLVED: issue 8 deferred
14:48:24 <benadida> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/HTML/2005-current-issues#predicate-inheritance
14:48:33 <RalphS> -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/HTML/2005-current-issues#predicate-inheritance 10. Predicate Inheritance
14:48:51 <RalphS> Ben: the idea in issue 10 was that the rel on the UL applied to all the LIs
14:49:00 <RalphS> ... not clear we see a big need for this particular feature
14:49:55 <RalphS> Ralph: I think generally we should not add inheritance unless there's a clear need
14:50:09 <RalphS> ... inheritance adds complexity
14:50:25 <Steven> I think I agree that only about inherits
14:50:32 <RalphS> Mark: in this example hrefs are contained within an element
14:50:42 <RalphS> ... in the original whitepaper there was lots of inheritance
14:50:53 <RalphS> ... this did get tricky for some people so I don't mind leaving it out
14:51:15 <RalphS> Steven: when I tried this out a while ago I came to the conclusion that only 'about' should inherit
14:51:24 <RalphS> ... otherwise there are lots of unexpected effects
14:51:30 <RalphS> RESOLVED: issue 10 defered
14:51:37 <RalphS> s/defered/withdrawn/
14:51:59 <RalphS> RESOLVED: issue 10 closed; no additional inheritance
14:52:20 <RalphS> Ben: open issues are linked from the top of the issues list
14:52:29 <RalphS> -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/HTML/2005-current-issues issues lise
14:52:41 <RalphS> Topic: Marketing Plan
14:53:06 <RalphS> Ben: we talked about a repository of schemas & ontologies
14:53:27 <RalphS> ... that's part of a larger Sem Web Activity issue, so let's defer that in the TF
14:54:09 <RalphS> ... but I'd like to see a marketing page pointing to RDF/A examples
14:54:12 <MarkB_> skimstone.x-port.net
14:54:24 <RalphS> Mark: I have a site using drupal
14:54:43 <RalphS> ... has forms, RSS feeds from XForms blogs
14:54:56 <RalphS> ... central idea is showing use of W3C languages to generate applications
14:55:04 <RalphS> ... XForms + SVG + ...
14:55:13 <RalphS> ... we're going to put examples of sidebars here
14:55:22 <RalphS> ... will probably be very techy-oriented
14:55:38 <RalphS> ... also likely to have RDF/A tutorials there
14:56:02 <RalphS> ... may be too techy to be the main site for RDF/A marketing
14:56:48 <RalphS> Ralph: separate from w3.org ?
14:57:12 <RalphS> Ben: yes, I think an RDF/A marketing effort separate from W3C could help
14:57:56 <RalphS> ... I'm willing to put in some time to set up a site on another Web hosting facility
14:58:36 <RalphS> Mark: this feels along the lines of CSS zen garden
14:59:39 <RalphS> ... it's the community kicking-in and helping
15:01:17 <Zakim> -Ralph
15:01:36 <benadida> MarkB: we should coordinate to figure out the message, what the site would look like
15:02:04 <benadida> ... when we did the xforms wiki, we had trouble making the structure "feel right."
15:02:22 <benadida> ... should this be just a blog? something more?
15:02:46 <benadida> ... there are lots of ways to do this
15:02:47 <RalphS> rrsagent, please make this record public
15:02:50 <benadida> ... it has to be easy to update
15:03:08 <benadida> ... otherwise it will be easy to update
15:03:25 <benadida> s/easy to update/stagant/
15:03:30 <benadida> s/stagant/stagnant
15:05:00 <benadida> ACTION: Ben to develop a plan for a marketing/news web site about RDF/A and send it to the list
15:06:56 <Zakim> -Steven
15:07:00 <Zakim> -MarkB
15:07:02 <Zakim> SW_BPD(rdfxhtml)9:00AM has ended
15:07:05 <Zakim> Attendees were Ralph, Ben_Adida, Steven, MarkB
15:07:20 <Steven> "redflag" contains the characters r d f a in order
15:07:43 <Steven> (thinking of alternate names)
15:25:06 <RalphS> rrsagent, please draft minutes
15:25:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-minutes.html RalphS
15:25:10 <benadida> benadida has left #htmltf
15:36:12 <MarkB_> redflag to the microformat bull, you mean? :)
16:18:12 <Steven> swordfish - semantics without RDF in standard HTML
16:39:12 <Zakim> Zakim has left #htmltf
17:40:07 <RalphS> rrsagent, bye
17:40:07 <RRSAgent> I see 14 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-actions.rdf :
17:40:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Jeremy look into the XHTML namespace issue and write thoughts into email [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/06-htmltf-minutes.html#action02]... next  [1]
17:40:07 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-irc#T14-14-48
17:40:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben talk off-line with Jeremy about a realistic implementation schedule [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-htmltf-minutes.html#action01] [2]
17:40:07 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-irc#T14-15-23
17:40:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to draft full response to Bjoern's 2004 email [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/24-swbp-minutes.html#action03] [3]
17:40:07 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-irc#T14-15-40
17:40:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Mark, Steven, and Ralph respond to Ben's off-list draft of response to Bjoern [4]
17:40:07 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-irc#T14-17-00
17:40:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Jeremy followup on edge case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action03] [5]
17:40:07 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-irc#T14-17-05
17:40:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Jeremy followup with Mark on the question of multiple triples from nested meta and add to issues list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action01] [6]
17:40:07 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-irc#T14-17-13
17:40:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Jeremy propose wording on reification [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action02] [7]
17:40:07 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-irc#T14-17-18
17:40:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: once Steven sends editors' draft of XHTML2, all TF members take a look and comment on showstopper issues only [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/06-htmltf-minutes.html#action01] [8]
17:40:07 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-irc#T14-17-24
17:40:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Steven draft a WWW2006 Developer's Track proposal [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-htmltf-minutes.html#action16] [9]
17:40:07 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-irc#T14-19-44
17:40:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben update his bookmarklet for XHTML mode [10]
17:40:07 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-irc#T14-27-01
17:40:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben draft WWW2006 proposal for talk describing RDF/A language [11]
17:40:07 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-irc#T14-40-19
17:40:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Mark draft WWW2006 proposal for RDF/A demos talk [12]
17:40:07 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-irc#T14-41-09
17:40:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben start separate mail threads on remaining discussion topics [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action04] [13]
17:40:07 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-irc#T14-44-41
17:40:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to develop a plan for a marketing/news web site about RDF/A and send it to the list [14]
17:40:07 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-irc#T15-05-00