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00:48:53 <Dave> Vincent Quint talking about content adaption in the ubiquitous web.
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01:08:48 <Dave> q: your distributed architecture diagram - transformation servers are valuable
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01:09:08 <Dave> or did you intend all the transformations to take place in the proxy?
01:09:36 <Dave> a: the proxy will be used only when there isn't adequate transformation on one or the other side.
01:10:01 <Dave> there may be more than one proxy and proxies may be specialized to different purposes.
01:10:19 <Kazuyuki> Dave, do you want to record the name of the commenter?
01:10:33 <Kazuyuki> ok
01:11:24 <Dave> q: (Johan) the device description problem is much high in the SIP community, what is the reason you only focus on HTTP?
01:12:00 <Dave> a: most clients are using http, but I am not claiming that all clients must use http, especially for streaming media.
01:12:27 <chaals> rrsagent, make log public
01:12:43 <Reto> it is fine now
01:12:58 <Dave> Johan: SIP offers more negotiation possibilities than http and that expands the architecture.
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01:14:03 <Dave> q: (Liddy) search for proxies to handle specific transformations is also important
01:14:21 <Dave> I am also concerned about privacy for user/device profiles.
01:15:25 <Dave> a: profiles can also be stored on the device and passed to the proxy upon demand.
01:16:09 <Dave> In answer to the first question, I mentioned about DI Select and other means to make the transformation sensitive to the context.
01:16:54 <Dave> q: (Don R) are you aware of any device profiles that you can use?
01:17:53 <Dave> a: the adaptation may not provide sufficient information via http.
01:18:27 <Dave> q: are there any public repositories of device information?
01:19:02 <Dave> a: yes there are some.
01:19:45 <Dave> Dave notes that the is an open source repository and W3C's MWI is working on the APIs and mechanisms to support repositories.
01:20:33 <Dave> q: doesn't the descriptions need to cover rules for what transformations are appropriate
01:21:06 <Dave> q: why do you need to negotiate, why not just send everything?
01:21:15 <Dave> a: it is too much
01:22:59 <Dave> Dave thanks Vincent
01:23:04 <Dave> (applause)
01:24:28 <Dave> Reto Krummenacher presents on triple spaces for a ubiquitous web of services.
01:33:22 <Dave> q: this is a distributed blackboard, right?
01:33:47 <Dave> a: yes, but we are combining with the Semantic Web as semantic databases.
01:35:25 <Dave> The sematic web will enable the combining of large amounts of distributed information.
01:40:14 <Dave> q: I am curious as to why it is called triple spaces?
01:40:55 <Dave> a: the first idea was to combine RDF and tuple space, RDF uses triples, hence triple space.
01:41:11 <Dave> alternative names include semantic space.
01:42:06 <Dave> q: (Franklin) in tuple spaces you can change values, is that the intent, to allow you to navigate and make changes?
01:42:35 <Dave> a: currently we publish RDF graphs and consuming them.
01:44:01 <Dave> (shows additional slide with write, read, take, query operations)
01:47:41 <Kazuyuki> rrsagent, pointer
01:47:41 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2006/03/10-ubiweb-irc#T01-47-41
01:48:23 <Kazuyuki> Dave, I'm not sure why, but yesterday's log was: http://www.w3.org/2006/03/08-ubiweb-irc
01:59:42 <chaals> It's because RRSAgent gets the time based on GMT, so if you live in Japan or Australia it gets confused about the date.
01:59:55 <chaals> s/GMT/GMT or Boston time or something/
02:16:07 <Dave> Presentation from University of Deusto.
02:25:48 <karl> [http://www.w3.org/2006/03/08-ubiweb-minutes]
02:34:26 <Dave> q: (Johan) what about scalability, have you tested with more than a few nodes?
02:35:11 <Dave> a: we want to expand the range of scenarios to address that.
02:35:49 <Dave> the centralized nature of the orchestrator is also a weakness of the current approach that we would like to address
02:36:05 <Dave> q: (Franklin) have you tested for usability?
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02:36:18 <Dave> a: not formally as yet.
02:37:23 <Dave> q: you showed us a diagram for time vs number of APs. can you explain it?
02:38:25 <Dave> a: constraint processing can take time due to its cost ...
02:39:26 <Dave> q: can you give me an example of reasoning for adaptation?
02:41:01 <Dave> a: a rule that knows that if you are in a given room then you are in a given building with a given location
02:41:31 <Dave> Johan Hjelm presents "building the ubiquitous applications environment"
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03:11:06 <Dave> q: (Reto) is there a website for SPiCE?
03:11:11 <Dave> a: not yet
03:12:40 <Dave> q: (Franklin) your project is addressing a number of security related desires. But aren't there real usability problems for configuring that?
03:13:41 <Dave> a: we are using some widgets to simplify this, and one approach is based on sets and another is based upon recipe cards
03:14:14 <Dave> a third technique is based upon constructing a matrix
03:16:10 <Dave> people don't want comprehensive solutions, and prefer solutio
03:16:23 <Dave> solutions to particular problems instead.
03:18:26 <Dave> q: (Dave) can you show us an example of policy language for privacy management?
03:18:35 <Dave> a: not right now, see the website.
03:19:11 <Dave> q: for fuzzy properties have you consided machine learning for understanding the context (e.g. for nearness)?
03:19:14 <Dave> a: yes
03:19:25 <Dave> we are using bayesian techniques for this.
03:26:28 <karl> Scribe: karl
03:26:50 <karl> Topic: Break out session 
03:27:18 <karl> Chaals: is the semantic web a too heavy approach to a context of small devices?
03:27:32 <karl> ... The SW might be too hard or overkill. 
03:27:55 <karl> ... but in other way, it helps to maximize interoperability
03:28:25 <karl> ... what is the middle ground?
03:28:59 <karl> dave: I think you have to go back to use cases to be able to find the relevant technologies. 
03:30:08 <karl> Johan: One of the issues is that people add a lot of things when discussed about their desires. So you end up with a universal knowledge representation system.
03:30:53 <karl> ... It's not a context representation problem. You should not start by representing everything, but more by representing small things available to you and then create your context.
03:31:17 <karl> ... Users don't create ontologies. They want something which solves their problem. 
03:32:38 <chaals> Karl: RDF  is a way of representing things. People create folksonomies that are dynamic ontologies, but there is no value in a big framework that requires people to build their ontologies beforehand...
03:33:54 <karl> dave: there are people who make money from building ontologies. But yes we could have an approach were many people annotate things, give information
03:34:17 <karl> Johan: The issue is how to represent the user. 
03:34:57 <karl> ... The problem is how to find something which is relevant, or appropriate for the user which is middle ground.
03:35:05 <karl> dave: example of use cases
03:35:15 <karl> JOhan: Footbal games ?
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03:39:10 <karlUshi> [12:33] 	<karl>	dave: there are people who make money from building ontologies. But yes we could have an approach were many people annotate things, give information
03:39:12 <karlUshi> [12:34] 	<karl>	Johan: The issue is how to represent the user. 
03:39:14 <karlUshi> [12:34] 	<karl>	... The problem is how to find something which is relevant, or appropriate for the user which is middle ground.
03:39:17 <karlUshi> [12:35] 	<karl>	dave: example of use cases
03:39:19 <karlUshi> [12:35] 	<karl>	JOhan: Footbal games ?
03:39:21 <karlUshi> [12:35] 	*	karl is missing the articulation of Johan
03:39:23 <karlUshi> [12:36] 	<karl>	Johan: we transmitted files as CSV files because it was a lot faster than RDF files
03:39:25 <karlUshi> [12:37] 	<karl>	SpeakerX: Use RDF when you need, or XML, or text. It really depends on the context of your use.
03:40:12 <karlUshi> dave: question_missed
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03:44:26 <karl> dave: something interesting this morning
03:44:36 <karl> ... was the notion of annotation for devices
03:44:42 <karl> ... what is needed for annotations
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03:45:54 <karl> Johan: it's not only about having to send your data, but also the status of interaction between devices. A negotiation future protocol should include this?
03:46:01 <karl> SpeakerA: yes
03:47:05 <karl> Johan: when negotiation is happening, there should be the possibility of dealing with multiple events, so a notification system
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03:48:04 <karl> dave: multimodal context interface are dealing with this. Type of papers, quantity etc. 
03:48:20 <karl> SpeakerA: The mechanism needs to be exposed
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03:49:35 <karl> dave: that comes back to what kind of mechanism and languages you should use for that.
03:50:08 <karl> DonWright: All of these problems have been solved
03:50:15 <karl> ... but not on a large scale basis
03:50:31 <karl> dave: web services?
03:51:04 <karl> DonWright: it's too hard to do. Not too hard in the sense in writing of the software, but too hard in terms of deployment. 
03:51:26 <karl> ... problems of firewall, problems of physical structures of companies
03:51:28 <karl> ... etc.
03:51:59 <karl> dave: what about admin costs?
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03:52:18 <karl> DonWright: many companies have proposed this kind of business but none has been successful
03:52:25 <karl> ... because of the deployment issue
03:53:09 <karl> SpeakerA: The status of events is not always relevant.
03:53:55 <karl> dave: what kind of apis, web services, ontologies (common vocabularies) should be built to deal with this?
03:55:15 <UEDA> <break dur="45min"/>
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04:59:01 <karl> scribe: karl
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04:59:12 <karl> RRSAgent, help
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05:00:04 <karl> RRSAgent, bookmark
05:00:04 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2006/03/10-ubiweb-irc#T05-00-04
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05:01:07 <karl> Topic: Lower case ubiquitous web architecture and its implementations by Satoru Takagi
05:01:54 <karl> Satoru: establishment of ubiquitous computing environment as social features
05:02:12 <karl> ... Ultra Tiny Computers everywhere: software and hardware
05:02:45 <karl> ... Introduction of the hardware: T-Engine, micro T-Engine, P-Engine
05:03:05 <karl> ... creation of Ubiquitous ID "ucode"
05:04:05 <karl> ... UCR = UCode Relation (compatible with RDF) it's an URI
05:04:29 <karl> ... it has properties like RDF
05:05:28 <karl> ... Real ucode: in dice, active IR-tag, 2 dimensional bar-code like QR-code
05:05:59 <karl> .... based on social infrastructure
05:06:47 <karl> ... -> http://www.w3.org/2006/02/UbiquitousWebUNL.pdf
05:07:03 <karl> ... Embeddability, scalability
05:07:19 <karl> ... Demo of a concrete architecture
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05:07:37 <karl> .... User context information like CC/PP, FOAF
05:09:02 <karl> ... lower case ubiquitous web platform configuration
05:10:01 <karl> ... application of semantic web to GIS
05:10:15 <karl> ... SVG Map with spatial metadata
05:10:38 <karl> ... UCR-spatial metadata
05:11:02 <karl> ... UCR-spacial network
05:11:09 <karl> s/spatial/spacial/
05:11:32 <karl> ... (DEMO live)
05:12:41 <karl> ... using an XML Parser 30kb and RDF/XML Parser and Object Manager with Query Interface = 28 Kb
05:13:48 <karl> -> http://www.uidcenter.org/english/uidtags.html
05:15:09 <karl> -> http://www.uidcenter.org/english/uid.html
05:21:18 <karl> Q&A
05:22:08 <karl> Franklin_Reynolds: I'm not sure I understand the difference with other IDs systems
05:22:47 <karl> ... ucode:..... it can be treated as an URI.
05:25:10 <karl> karl: I put a link in the minutes to the FAQ. It seems it's a structured code.
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05:25:31 <karl> Franklin_Reynolds: it seems to be a centralized system
05:25:49 <chaals> s/centralised/decentralised/
05:25:51 <karl> satoru: yes
05:26:14 <karl> dave: missedthequestion
05:27:45 <karl> Topic: Access Position Paper
05:28:21 <karl> by Yamakami Toshihiko
05:29:03 <karl> Toshihiko: Technology Provider since 1984 - 70 million of mobile users
05:29:38 <karl> ... Access is specialized with Embeeded non pc network software
05:30:56 <karl> ... software engineering in restricted environment
05:31:09 <karl> ... participation to consortia
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05:35:28 <karl> ... presentation of use cases
05:40:07 <Kazuyuki> is afraid that this log has public permission...
05:41:09 <karl> [Kazuyuki the log is public, and there's no issue with that]
05:42:25 <karl> ... presentation of the issues and requirements 
05:43:37 <karl> ... Easy setup vs Visibility/controlability for users
05:43:48 <karl> ... diverysity vs interoperability
05:44:03 <karl> ... who will take the lead?
05:44:07 <karl> Q&A
05:44:32 <karl> Johan: Question about Time Consuming Spiral slide
05:44:59 <karl> ... question1
05:46:18 <karl> Toshihiko: Content of quality, integration ....
05:46:45 <karl> SpeakerB: How the quality of devices impact your business?
05:47:35 <karl> Toshihiko: Technology progresses, more power, more space, we are specialist of restricted environments. 
05:47:56 <karl> ... Microsoft is a specialist of big environment but have difficult for tiny environment
05:48:15 <karl> ... more power means our business will be more difficult
05:48:52 <karl> Tokuda: NTT Docomo controls everything?
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05:49:12 <karl> ... so how do you create the future if they control? How do you see it?
05:49:54 <karl> Toshihiko: We will just respond to our customers request wherever it is. 
05:50:21 <karl> ... Happy old days are gone. 
05:50:41 <karl> ... We have customers and they choose what they want.
05:51:31 <karl> Toshihiko: We have to be careful, what is the W3C role?
05:52:28 <karl> Toshihiko: we have to deal capabilities of devices, devices are very dynamic, so meta operation could be done at W3C
05:52:31 <Kazuyuki> Dave: what do you expect to W3C?
05:58:33 <karl> s/SpeakerB/Miroslav/
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06:33:11 <karl> Topic: The Ubiquitous User Agent - Charles McCathieNevile and Hallvord R. M. Steen
06:34:00 <karl> Hallvord: The web for us is already ubiquitous. 
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06:43:53 <karl> ... (demonstration of using the Web as it is right now)
06:44:09 <karl> ... email, calendar, contact list, etc, interacting
07:00:01 <karl> Q&A
07:00:54 <karl> Kanchan_Lee: is there an activity inside W3C like Mobile OK?
07:01:23 <karl> chaals: Yes and I'm one of the editors. It's a mobile best practices
07:01:33 <karl> ... It's broad guidelines
07:01:55 <karl> ... the next step will be mobile ok, if the best practices are successful.
07:02:24 <karl> ... We like this from Opera perspective.
07:02:42 <karl> ... if you do web sites which don't respect things it's harder.
07:02:55 <karl> ... but if you do it right, it's benefitial for everyone.
07:04:22 <karl> karl: what about ubiquitous authoring tools?
07:04:38 <karl> chaals: it's very difficult. 
07:05:11 <karl> ... accessibility guidelines were a step. Authoring tools are crucial
07:05:43 <karl> ... There are no authoring tools developpers at this workshop. 
07:05:55 <karl> ... It's very important.
07:06:22 <karl> dave: There are languages which are develop right now to input at W3C
07:06:30 <karl> s/develop/developed/
07:07:08 <karl> Dave: davequestion?
07:07:47 <karl> chaals: to avoid securities issues, you make a standardized UI, but you don't want to do that. That's the same for security.
07:08:06 <karl> ... but right now each vendor is doing its own framework with not a lot of interop
07:08:23 <karl> ... we would like to promote interop in security.
07:08:51 <karl> ... The securities policies of browsers vendors are different 
07:09:04 <karl> ... even if the techniques are quite similar.
07:09:37 <karl> ... we are about to cooperate on this. But it's a complex work
07:10:17 <karl> dave: pop up messages are really an issue for all kind of devices.
07:10:53 <karl> chaals: yes it's an issue. We would like to have a framework. but a security model is not yet done. 
07:11:48 <karl> Franklin_reynolds: Do you think that there should be a WG for basic security framework for the Web
07:12:07 <karl> chaals: It's one of the area, where I would like to see the W3C push an activity
07:12:52 <karl> ... for now, there is SSL, but I don't know if I can trust it or not.
07:13:10 <karl> ... (answering a comment of Franklin Reynolds)
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07:14:23 <Don> RRSagent, poimter?
07:14:23 <RRSAgent> I'm logging.  Sorry, nothing found for 'poimter'
07:14:32 <Don> RRSagent, pointer?
07:14:32 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2006/03/10-ubiweb-irc#T07-14-32
07:15:02 <karl> Topic: Event-Driven Coordination  Rule of Web Services enabled Devices in Ubiquitous Environment - Kanchan Lee
07:15:28 <chaals> s/it or not/what I get from the other end, or not/
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07:15:47 <karl> -> http://eng.mic.go.kr/ The IT839 Strategy/
07:16:10 <chaals> s/about to cooperate/ready to cooperate, and have been cooperating with other browser vendors already/
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07:31:09 <karlUshi> Franklin_reynolds: I was not clear about WS_ECA. I didn't understand. What's the connection between events conditions and actions
07:32:04 <karlUshi> Kanchan: ECA supports logic expression. 
07:32:24 <karlUshi> ... all events come from Web services
07:33:05 <karlUshi> Topic: Session of discussions
07:33:16 <karl> scribe, karl
07:33:21 <karl> scribe: karl
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07:35:29 <karl> Dave: I would like we discuss about the notion of events in terms of Web services
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07:38:40 <karl> dave and franklin reynolds have a discussion on distributed computing with events. 
07:39:06 <karl> Dave: Distributed applications would be easier to write with simple markup
07:39:16 <chaals> rrsagent, draft minutes
07:39:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/03/10-ubiweb-minutes.html chaals
07:39:33 <karl> Johan: We have been hearing a lot of things in this workshop
07:39:42 <karl> ... which are different.
07:39:59 <karl> ... If the W3C should do something, what should be addressed.
07:40:21 <karl> ... We haven't scratched enough the surface to know what we want to do. 
07:40:47 <karl> ... It's a very interesting workshop. But I would be concerned to start an activity on this.
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07:41:08 <karl> ... We don't have enough use cases right now with practical problems to solve.
07:41:21 <karl> ... research, industrial developments, etc have been presented.
07:41:28 <karl> ... it's not time to start an activity
07:41:42 <karl> ... at least until we have defined problems
07:41:57 <karl> dave: W3C is already working on many of these activities
07:42:09 <karl> ... it's more about knowing how all these pieces fit together. 
07:42:29 <karl> Johan: There is a lot of work going on everywhere not only at W3C.
07:42:49 <karl> Chaals: I have the same work assumptions than Johan. 
07:43:11 <karl> ... Is the problem clearly defined? 
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07:43:41 <karl> ... There are many groups at W3C covering already some of the work. 
07:44:06 <karl> ... If there are 4 groups doing the same thing, We can't allocate resources.
07:44:12 <karl> ... and we might not participate
07:44:34 <karl> ... What I would like to see from this workshop
07:45:03 <karl> ... is that to discuss with WGs to push them in the right direction.
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07:45:11 <karl> Dave: something specific?
07:45:28 <karl> chaals: CDF crossover with multimodal, API groups, etc.
07:45:52 <karl> ... There are already groups which have already deliverables on these topics
07:46:24 <karl> ... We don't want to have more and more Mobile focused groups
07:46:50 <karl> ... SVG do the right thing somehow. There is no special WG for mobile
07:47:00 <karl> ... but they care of doing the things right for mobile.
07:47:11 <karl> Dave: it's the case for many WGs.
07:47:19 <karl> chaals: To an extent yes
07:47:33 <karl> ... Don't make more mobile groups
07:47:47 <karl> ... make more technology which are mobile friendly.
07:48:02 <karl> Johan: Good problems definition helps a lot in this case.
07:48:45 <karl> ... Activities which don't have a good problem definitions, for example, Mobile Best Practices, and Device Independence and Device description WG.
07:49:07 <karl> ... some WGs at W3C have overlapping agendas.
07:49:29 <karl> Don: To some extent, I will agree with Johan and chaals
07:49:50 <karl> ... we spent a lot of time on mobile but not on non traditional devices.
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07:54:14 <karlLapUshi> I dropped again
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07:55:06 <karlLapUshi> Karl: maybe we should try to coordinate more inside W3C, maybe an outcome of Workshop would be to create a big picture, identify technologies
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07:55:14 <karlLapUshi> ... and their interactions.
07:55:27 <karlLapUshi> Retallack: Is there one world wide web?
07:56:06 <karlLapUshi> chaals: one of the thing we didn't the network info-structure
07:56:30 <karlLapUshi> ... we build browsers on many different info-structures: phone, web, aircraft, etc.
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07:57:05 <karlLapUshi> ... In the mountains, there is the satellite phone. 
07:57:24 <karlLapUshi> ... People in some regions will share phones
07:57:47 <karlLapUshi> ... Old machines will still work on. 
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07:58:17 <karlLapUshi> ... it is important, W3C has made an important step  in that direction. 
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07:58:32 <karlLapUshi> ... Africa is one of the place where W3C had no meetings yet
07:59:10 <karlLapUshi> ... There is a lot of work which should be done by W3C, maybe not everything
07:59:19 <karlLapUshi> ... like sometimes phone protocols
07:59:27 <karlLapUshi> ... so scoping the appropriate domain.
07:59:33 <karlLapUshi> ... is important
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08:00:10 <chaals> s/meetings yet/meetings yet, but there will be a Web API meeting there later this year/
08:00:27 <karlLapUshi> Johan: The requirements are very high in this workshop compared to places in the world like Bangladesh.
08:00:58 <karlLapUshi> ... There are many people with illiteracy but they are able to use the technology. 
08:01:28 <karlLapUshi> ... It's part of our responsibility to take care of these countries. 
08:01:34 <karlLapUshi> ... and these people too.
08:03:56 <karlLapUshi> Liddy: I just come back from Cambodia where a wireless motorbike is passing get data and bring back answers later on.
08:03:58 <chaals> Johan: The idea of web interaction without people involved - applications working with each other, is an interesting area of development, which could have some well-defined problems
08:04:05 <karlLapUshi> ... telemedicine is working that way there.
08:04:48 <chaals> [liddy's example of bandwidth moving at 50mph, literally... ]
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08:05:13 <karlLapUshi> Liddy: The value of the web is the information and the ability to transmit information from one place to the other for saving someone life is pretty cool.
08:06:07 <karlLapUshi> Franklin: Filters of events are very important
08:06:32 <karlLapUshi> Dave: multimodal group is working on that. 
08:07:04 <karlLapUshi> Franklin: service discoveries, we haven't talked about them.
08:07:24 <karlLapUshi> ... Standardize vocabularies and structures 
08:07:49 <karlLapUshi> ... Names (ids) are fragile when we move.
08:08:08 <karlLapUshi> ... It would be great to solve this issue
08:08:45 <karlLapUshi> Topic: wrapping up
08:08:52 <karlLapUshi> (applause)
08:09:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/03/10-ubiweb-minutes.html mimasa
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08:10:04 <karlLapUshi> ADJOURNED
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08:11:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/03/10-ubiweb-minutes.html mimasa
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