IRC log of rif on 2006-03-07

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:53:08 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #rif
15:53:08 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/03/07-rif-irc
15:53:08 [MarkusK]
MarkusK has joined #rif
15:53:09 [sandro]
zakim, who is here?
15:53:09 [Zakim]
sorry, sandro, I don't know what conference this is
15:53:10 [Zakim]
On IRC I see MarkusK, RRSAgent, Zakim, FrankMcCabe, csma, Francois, sandro, pfps, PaulaP, ericP, Keeper
15:53:12 [sandro]
zakim, this is rif
15:53:12 [Zakim]
ok, sandro; that matches SW_RIF()11:00AM
15:53:16 [sandro]
zakim, who is here?
15:53:16 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ??P2, Sandro
15:53:17 [Zakim]
On IRC I see MarkusK, RRSAgent, Zakim, FrankMcCabe, csma, Francois, sandro, pfps, PaulaP, ericP, Keeper
15:53:22 [Allen]
Allen has joined #rif
15:53:39 [DonaldC]
DonaldC has joined #rif
15:53:43 [Francois]
zakim, ??P2 is me.
15:53:43 [Zakim]
+Francois; got it
15:53:52 [LeoraMorgenstern]
LeoraMorgenstern has joined #rif
15:53:54 [Francois]
zakim, who is here?
15:53:54 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Francois, Sandro
15:53:55 [Zakim]
On IRC I see LeoraMorgenstern, DonaldC, Allen, MarkusK, RRSAgent, Zakim, FrankMcCabe, csma, Francois, sandro, pfps, PaulaP, ericP, Keeper
15:55:02 [Francois]
zakim, please mute me.
15:55:02 [Zakim]
Francois should now be muted
15:55:35 [Zakim]
+??P1
15:55:48 [Zakim]
+??P3
15:55:49 [csma]
Zakim, ??P1 is me
15:55:50 [Zakim]
+csma; got it
15:55:55 [Deborah_Nichols]
Deborah_Nichols has joined #rif
15:56:02 [pfps]
it might be a good idea to change the topic
15:56:35 [sandro]
sandro has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/2006-03-07_Meeting
15:56:41 [LeoraMorgenstern]
zakim, mute me
15:56:41 [Zakim]
sorry, LeoraMorgenstern, I do not see a party named 'LeoraMorgenstern'
15:56:42 [Zakim]
+PaulaP
15:57:05 [LeoraMorgenstern]
zakim, ??P3 is me (I think)
15:57:05 [Zakim]
I don't understand '??P3 is me (I think)', LeoraMorgenstern
15:57:08 [Zakim]
+Deborah_Nichols
15:57:19 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:57:20 [Uli]
Uli has joined #rif
15:57:33 [LeoraMorgenstern]
zakim, ??P3 is me
15:57:33 [Zakim]
+LeoraMorgenstern; got it
15:57:54 [Zakim]
+[Fujitsu]
15:58:02 [FrankMcCabe]
zakim, fujitsu is me
15:58:02 [Zakim]
+FrankMcCabe; got it
15:58:10 [LeoraMorgenstern]
zakim, mute me
15:58:10 [Zakim]
LeoraMorgenstern should now be muted
15:58:14 [Darko]
Darko has joined #rif
15:58:26 [ChrisW]
ChrisW has joined #rif
15:58:34 [Zakim]
+Allen_Ginsberg
15:58:38 [ugo]
ugo has joined #rif
15:58:38 [Zakim]
+Darrell_Dykstra
15:58:47 [Allen]
Zakim, mute me
15:58:47 [Zakim]
Allen_Ginsberg should now be muted
15:58:50 [Zakim]
+Donald_Chapin (was Darrell_Dykstra)
15:59:38 [Zakim]
+Ugo_Corda
15:59:41 [Zakim]
-csma
15:59:50 [DonaldC]
Zakim donald_chapin is DonaldC
15:59:58 [msintek]
msintek has joined #rif
16:00:07 [Zakim]
+??P13
16:00:09 [Zakim]
+??P17
16:00:11 [Zakim]
+??P15
16:00:22 [csma]
zakim, ??P17 is me
16:00:22 [DonaldC]
Zakim, Donald_Chapin is DonaldC
16:00:22 [Zakim]
+ +49.715.2.aaaa
16:00:23 [Zakim]
-??P15
16:00:24 [Zakim]
+csma; got it
16:00:26 [Zakim]
+DonaldC; got it
16:00:44 [Zakim]
+??P21
16:00:45 [DonaldC]
Zakim, mute me
16:00:45 [Zakim]
DonaldC should now be muted
16:00:57 [josb]
josb has joined #rif
16:01:15 [GiorgosStoilos]
GiorgosStoilos has joined #rif
16:01:15 [csma]
q-
16:01:24 [pfps]
zakim, ??p21 is pfps
16:01:24 [Zakim]
+pfps; got it
16:01:30 [sandro]
zakim, aaaa is Harold
16:01:30 [Zakim]
+Harold; got it
16:01:38 [johnhall]
johnhall has joined #rif
16:01:39 [Zakim]
+Michael_Sintek
16:01:55 [aharth]
aharth has joined #rif
16:02:13 [csma]
zakim, who is on the call?
16:02:13 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Francois (muted), Sandro, LeoraMorgenstern (muted), PaulaP (muted), Deborah_Nichols (muted), MarkusK (muted), FrankMcCabe, Allen_Ginsberg (muted), DonaldC
16:02:16 [Zakim]
... (muted), Ugo_Corda, ??P13 (muted), csma, Harold, pfps, msintek (muted)
16:02:18 [Zakim]
+JacekK
16:02:21 [Zakim]
+[IBM]
16:02:23 [Zakim]
+GiorgosStoilos
16:02:23 [ChrisW]
zakim, [ibm] is temporarily me
16:02:24 [Zakim]
+ChrisW; got it
16:02:35 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is on the phone
16:02:35 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who is on the phone', ChrisW
16:02:38 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is on the phone?
16:02:38 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Francois (muted), Sandro, LeoraMorgenstern (muted), PaulaP (muted), Deborah_Nichols (muted), MarkusK (muted), FrankMcCabe, Allen_Ginsberg (muted), DonaldC
16:02:41 [Zakim]
... (muted), Ugo_Corda, ??P13 (muted), csma, Harold, pfps, msintek (muted), josb, ChrisW, GiorgosStoilos
16:02:49 [igor]
igor has joined #rif
16:03:06 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
16:03:18 [Zakim]
+ +1.435.125.aabb
16:03:34 [johnhall]
zakim [ipcaller] is me
16:03:37 [der]
der has joined #rif
16:03:39 [Darko]
Zakim, aabb is me
16:03:39 [Zakim]
+Igor_Mozetic
16:03:40 [Zakim]
+Darko; got it
16:03:47 [igor]
zakim, mute me
16:03:47 [Zakim]
Igor_Mozetic should now be muted
16:03:55 [mdean]
mdean has joined #rif
16:04:11 [johnhall]
zakim, [ipcaller] is me
16:04:11 [Zakim]
+johnhall; got it
16:04:21 [johnhall]
zakim, mute me
16:04:21 [Zakim]
johnhall should now be muted
16:04:27 [Uli]
did you see me, Uli?
16:04:50 [Zakim]
+Mike_Dean
16:04:57 [JeffP]
JeffP has joined #rif
16:04:57 [ChrisW]
zakim, ??p13 is Uli
16:04:57 [Zakim]
+Uli; got it
16:05:25 [Darko]
zakim, mute me
16:05:25 [Zakim]
Darko should now be muted
16:05:58 [Zakim]
+Gary_Hallmark
16:06:11 [Zakim]
+JeffP
16:06:25 [PaulV]
PaulV has joined #rif
16:06:35 [josb]
aharth, dial *0 and you will get an operator
16:06:39 [Zakim]
+DonaldC.a
16:06:42 [Zakim]
+Dave_Reynolds (was DonaldC.a)
16:06:55 [StanDevitt]
StanDevitt has joined #rif
16:07:01 [LeoraMorgenstern]
zakim, unmute me
16:07:01 [Zakim]
LeoraMorgenstern should no longer be muted
16:07:46 [ChrisW]
chris: asks leora to scribe
16:07:55 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
16:07:57 [LeoraMorgenstern]
zakim, mute me
16:07:57 [Zakim]
LeoraMorgenstern should now be muted
16:08:00 [pfps]
pfps has joined #rif
16:08:20 [LeoraMorgenstern]
zakim, unmute me
16:08:20 [Zakim]
LeoraMorgenstern should no longer be muted
16:08:22 [Zakim]
+StanDevitt
16:08:28 [LeoraMorgenstern]
zakim, mute me
16:08:28 [Zakim]
LeoraMorgenstern should now be muted
16:08:36 [sandro]
scribeNick: LeoraMorgenstern
16:08:54 [Zakim]
+Ed_Barkmeyer
16:08:59 [deepalik]
deepalik has joined #rif
16:09:02 [GaryHallmark]
GaryHallmark has joined #rif
16:09:20 [ChrisW]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/ScribesList
16:09:26 [edbark]
edbark has joined #rif
16:09:35 [Zakim]
-PaulV
16:09:53 [Allen]
I scribed for an hour at the F2F
16:09:57 [msintek]
yes I did
16:10:07 [Allen]
yes
16:10:11 [Zakim]
+??P21
16:10:16 [Allen]
Zakim, unmute me
16:10:16 [Zakim]
Allen_Ginsberg should no longer be muted
16:10:19 [pfps]
zakim, ??p21 is pfps
16:10:19 [Zakim]
+pfps; got it
16:10:36 [pfps]
It would be really nice if people didn't "steal" other's connections.
16:10:50 [LeoraMorgenstern]
ChrisW: Discussion to make sure all scribes at F2F are accurately recorded
16:11:01 [PaulV]
Connection stealing - sorry - looks like me
16:11:04 [Allen]
zakim, mute me
16:11:04 [Zakim]
Allen_Ginsberg should now be muted
16:11:39 [LeoraMorgenstern]
ChrisW: minutes from F2F still being stitched together.
16:11:52 [ChrisW]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Feb/0218.html
16:12:30 [LeoraMorgenstern]
ChrisW: Resolution: minutes from 2-21 telecon are accepted.
16:13:08 [Zakim]
+Deepali_Khushraj
16:13:58 [LeoraMorgenstern]
ChrisW: Regarding next F2F, vote is needed to decide between June 8-9 and June 9-10. Problem is that June 10 is the date of a workshop that is of interest to RIF people.
16:14:27 [LeoraMorgenstern]
Sandro: has set up poll to vote on this. Proposes giving people a few more days to vote.
16:15:01 [Zakim]
-[IPcaller]
16:15:08 [LeoraMorgenstern]
(Alternative, which ChrisW is suggesting, is voting on the phone.)
16:15:37 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
16:15:43 [MarkusK]
+1
16:16:38 [sandro]
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/38457/f2f3dates/
16:16:44 [LeoraMorgenstern]
ChrisW: Vote on straw poll (one vote per organization) will end Thursday at midnight.
16:16:54 [igor]
URL of the F2F poll?
16:16:57 [sandro]
straw poll is at: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/38457/f2f3dates/
16:17:15 [PaulV]
Zakim, ipcaller is PaulV
16:17:15 [Zakim]
sorry, PaulV, I do not recognize a party named 'ipcaller'
16:17:27 [PaulV]
Zakim, IPcaller is PaulV
16:17:27 [Zakim]
sorry, PaulV, I do not recognize a party named 'IPcaller'
16:17:36 [josb]
Paul, I assigned the caller to your name
16:17:37 [LeoraMorgenstern]
Sandro: action to set up straw poll is done.
16:17:40 [PaulV]
Zakim, [IPcaller] is PaulV
16:17:40 [Zakim]
sorry, PaulV, I do not recognize a party named '[IPcaller]'
16:17:49 [csma]
ACTION: Sandro to organize WBS vote on f2f meeting [DONE]
16:18:15 [PaulV]
Zakim, IPCaller is me
16:18:15 [Zakim]
sorry, PaulV, I do not recognize a party named 'IPCaller'
16:18:15 [csma]
ACTION: AxelP to set up logistics F2F page. see http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/F2F3 [DONE]
16:18:20 [AxelPolleres]
AxelPolleres has joined #rif
16:18:44 [sandro]
q+
16:18:45 [csma]
ACTION: Peter P-S to make proposal on Wiki for F2F at ISWC, Athens, Nov 2006. See http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Mar/0044.html [DONE]
16:18:55 [csma]
q+
16:18:58 [sandro]
q+ to ask who is offering to pay for F2F4
16:19:05 [Zakim]
+Axel_Polleres
16:19:15 [Zakim]
+Andreas_Harth
16:19:43 [aharth]
zakim, mute Andreas_Harth
16:19:43 [Zakim]
Andreas_Harth should now be muted
16:19:59 [csma]
ack sandro
16:19:59 [Zakim]
sandro, you wanted to ask who is offering to pay for F2F4
16:20:33 [csma]
ACTION: PFPS to try to find somebody to sponsor the F2F4
16:20:41 [LeoraMorgenstern]
ChrisW, Sandro, and Peter (P-S): discussion of sponsorship of next F2F
16:21:23 [sandro]
PFPS: $25 per person per day *NOT* *INCLUDING* lunch
16:21:35 [AxelPolleres]
q+
16:21:45 [PaulaP]
DERI and REWERSE are for the F2F3
16:21:46 [LeoraMorgenstern]
ChrisW: IBM not able to sponsor, certainly not entirely:
16:21:58 [AxelPolleres]
q-
16:21:59 [LeoraMorgenstern]
PFPS: neither can free university of bolzano
16:22:05 [sandro]
q?
16:22:08 [LeoraMorgenstern]
ChrisW: but can probably do partial support
16:22:13 [AxelPolleres]
I just wanted to say what paula already wrote on the irc
16:22:21 [LeoraMorgenstern]
ChrisW: That is, IBM can probably do partial support
16:22:38 [AxelPolleres]
... in collaboration with KWeb
16:22:59 [josb]
... and ESSI
16:23:13 [sandro]
http://www.businessrulesforum.com/
16:24:07 [edbark]
Zakim, q+
16:24:07 [Zakim]
I see csma, edbark on the speaker queue
16:24:21 [csma]
q-
16:24:22 [Allen]
I can look into mitre possiblilities
16:24:39 [csma]
ack edbark
16:24:44 [LeoraMorgenstern]
PFPS, ChrisW: Some discussion of 4th F2F --- WAshington?
16:25:01 [sandro]
edbark: In DC I think we (NIST) can sponsor
16:25:28 [johnhall]
Ron Ross of Business Rules Forum is in San Jose with Donald and me this week
16:25:34 [LeoraMorgenstern]
ACTION: PFPS to look into support for 3rd F2F
16:25:47 [csma]
ACTION: EdB to propose solution for F2F4 in relation with BRF
16:26:44 [sandro]
s/ACTION: PFPS to look into support for 3rd F2F/(deleted)/
16:26:51 [LeoraMorgenstern]
PFPS: Nothing much to discuss with regard to liaison
16:26:53 [sandro]
rrsagent, drop action 5
16:27:04 [PaulV]
PRR - no update
16:27:45 [Allen]
zakim, unmute me
16:27:45 [Zakim]
Allen_Ginsberg should no longer be muted
16:28:13 [IanH]
IanH has joined #rif
16:28:48 [csma]
ACTION: Dieter to review the Requirements http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/UCR/Requirements [CONTINUED]
16:29:14 [Zakim]
+??P63
16:29:15 [josb]
I'm not sure whether it makes sense to review this document now, after all the discussions
16:29:16 [AxelPolleres]
+1 from my side
16:29:30 [csma]
ACTION: Axel to review the Requirements http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/UCR/Requirements. see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Feb/0178.html [DONE]
16:29:31 [PaulaP]
I don't think there is a need for commenting the requirements anymore
16:29:56 [csma]
ACTION: JosDB to review the Requirements http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/UCR/Requirements. see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Feb/0197.html [DONE]
16:30:32 [csma]
ACTION: Chris Welty will come up with another example narrative for a RichKR use case . action deprecated by f2f resolution on section [DROPPED]
16:31:53 [csma]
ACTION: Dieter to review the Requirements http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/UCR/Requirements [DROPPED]
16:32:16 [csma]
ACTION: Chris Welty will come up with another example narrative for a RichKR use case . action deprecated by f2f resolution on section [DROPPED]
16:32:37 [csma]
ACTION: csma will incite data access discussion on mailing list [CONTINUED]
16:32:46 [LeoraMorgenstern]
zakim, unmute me
16:32:46 [Zakim]
LeoraMorgenstern should no longer be muted
16:32:59 [csma]
ACTION: Allen to respond to "Third Party" comments. see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Feb/0247.html [DONE]
16:33:20 [csma]
ACTION: Chris to respond to RichKR comments (completed by IanH). [see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Feb/0215.html] [DONE]
16:33:41 [csma]
ACTION: Christian to respond to "Publication" comments. action deprecated by f2f resolution on section [DROPPED]
16:34:05 [csma]
ACTION: Ed to synthesize comments on Coverage by Friday and propose ways to answer the comments. see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Feb/0250.html [DONE]
16:34:27 [PaulV]
Action - not done!
16:34:57 [PaulV]
Action - continued - will do tonight
16:34:58 [csma]
ACTION: ?FrankMcCabe to respond to "Information Integration" comments. action deprecated by f2f resolution on section [DROPPED]
16:35:23 [IanH]
Yes
16:35:25 [csma]
ACTION: Leora to respond to "Decision Support" comments. see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Feb/0251.html [DONE]
16:35:31 [IanH]
zakim, unmute me
16:35:31 [Zakim]
IanH should no longer be muted
16:35:52 [csma]
ACTION: paula to clarify list of requirements taking comments into account. see RIFUCR - List of Classified Requirements (with Duplicate Elimination) [DONE]
16:36:14 [csma]
ACTION: Paula to respond to "Policy-Based..." comments. see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Feb/0242.html [DONE]
16:36:34 [csma]
ACTION: PaulV to respond to "Cross-Platform..." comments. action deprecated by f2f resolution [DROPPED]
16:36:58 [csma]
ACTION: Said to respond to Human rules comments. Action deprecated by f2f resulution [DROPPED]
16:37:15 [johnhall]
zakim, unmute me
16:37:15 [Zakim]
johnhall should no longer be muted
16:37:24 [csma]
ACTION: Said to rspond to "Third Party" comments. Action completed by AllenG. [DROPPED]
16:37:45 [csma]
ACTION: PaulV to modify UC 2.3, new title ("Negotiating e-Busines Contracts across Rule Platforms") and different description. [CONTINUED]
16:38:12 [csma]
Action on UC&R editors to change title of 2.4 to Disclosing and Negotiating Buyer and Seller Policies and Preferences in eCommerce Transactions. See http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Mar/0024.html [DONE]
16:38:35 [johnhall]
zakim, mute me
16:38:36 [Zakim]
johnhall should now be muted
16:38:43 [csma]
ACTION: PFPS to ask Ian to make changes to use case RichKR ( remove uncle example and replace with brain anatomy example; make title be Interchanging rule extensions to OWL - A Brain Anatomy Research Example). see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Mar/0044.html [DONE]
16:39:06 [csma]
ACTION: ?FranckMcCabe to remove data integration from 2.1, retitle (Access to Business Rules of Supply Chain Partners), and revise, ensuring that there are rules there. See http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Mar/0031.html [DONE]
16:39:27 [csma]
ACTION: Sandro to add new use case about data integration (title: "Vocabularly Mapping for Data Integration"). [DONE]
16:39:49 [csma]
ACTION: Allan as editor of UCR to remove 2.6. See http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Mar/0024.html [DONE]
16:40:14 [csma]
ACTION: Chris to tell Leora to make changes to 2.2 (change title to Ruleset integration for Medical Decision Support, drop e-learning, concentrate on prescription part (and extend slightly). [DONE]
16:40:37 [csma]
ACTION: John, Don, Said - Retitle UC "Managing Inter-Organizational Business Policies and Practices" and rewrite. [CONTINUED]
16:41:00 [csma]
ACTION: Christian to create new Wiki page for requirements [CONTINUED]
16:41:09 [AxelPolleres]
q+
16:41:18 [AxelPolleres]
Zakim, unmute me
16:41:18 [Zakim]
Axel_Polleres should no longer be muted
16:41:28 [csma]
ACTION: Chris to start email discussion about what issues are "fuzzy" wrt phase 1 & 2 [CONTINUED]
16:42:10 [PaulV]
Can someone point a link to the minutes/actions? Can't see on WIKI...
16:42:25 [PaulV]
(Referring to F2F)
16:43:57 [AxelPolleres]
Zakim, unmute me
16:43:57 [Zakim]
Axel_Polleres was not muted, AxelPolleres
16:44:09 [csma]
q?
16:44:14 [csma]
ack axel
16:44:14 [AxelPolleres]
Zakim, mute me
16:44:15 [Zakim]
Axel_Polleres should now be muted
16:44:44 [LeoraMorgenstern]
Sandro: suggests starting afresh for new use cases (for future draft)
16:44:51 [PhilippeB]
PhilippeB has joined #rif
16:45:34 [LeoraMorgenstern]
ChrisW: this would be second draft candidate use cases
16:45:59 [Zakim]
+??P26
16:46:02 [Zakim]
+Philippe_Bonnard (was ??P26)
16:46:34 [LeoraMorgenstern]
cmsa: for new use cases, old use cases that people feel weren't really taken into account
16:46:34 [sandro]
sandro has joined #rif
16:46:52 [PaulaP]
Francois had also a couple of actions, but I don't see them in the telecon's agenda
16:47:01 [PhilippeB]
Zakim, mute me
16:47:01 [Zakim]
Philippe_Bonnard should now be muted
16:47:08 [csma]
ACTION: UCR editors to create a new Wiki page for collecting 2nd draft UC candidates
16:47:39 [AxelPolleres]
Do I need to take care to link mine there, or will you, Allen?
16:49:39 [sandro]
q+ to ask about section 1
16:50:02 [johnhall]
zakim, unmute me
16:50:02 [Zakim]
johnhall should no longer be muted
16:50:21 [LeoraMorgenstern]
ChrisW: reasonable to get next use case draft out tomorrow for vote?
16:50:34 [ChrisW]
^vote^review^
16:50:35 [LeoraMorgenstern]
Allen: If no further editing is needed, yes.
16:50:57 [johnhall]
zakim, mute me
16:50:57 [Zakim]
johnhall should now be muted
16:51:12 [LeoraMorgenstern]
Sandro: can then generate a frozen version
16:51:49 [LeoraMorgenstern]
cmsa: what about Axel's proposal? Hasn't undergone as much review as the others.
16:52:26 [LeoraMorgenstern]
ChrisW: Goal, to release this as new working draft by next telecon (March 14).
16:52:31 [csma]
ACTION: UCR editors prepare draft for review by Wednesday night and send email to the list when the draft is ready
16:52:59 [LeoraMorgenstern]
ChrisW: assumes that review won't be a problem, and vote to accept will go through.
16:53:24 [LeoraMorgenstern]
cmsa: What is the process for review? Poll?
16:53:38 [LeoraMorgenstern]
ChrisW: No, just read and post comments.
16:54:12 [sandro]
(Yes, Frank, Tracker has been set up -- but there are no specific plans to use it for anything yet.)
16:54:50 [sandro]
q?
16:54:52 [sandro]
ack sandro
16:54:52 [Zakim]
sandro, you wanted to ask about section 1
16:55:15 [LeoraMorgenstern]
sandro: discussion about section 1
16:55:40 [LeoraMorgenstern]
cmsa: recollection is that section 1 does not seem ready.
16:56:03 [LeoraMorgenstern]
sandro: So frozen version should contain just section 2, plus stub on section 1, saying what will go there, eventually
16:56:13 [Allen]
zakim, mute me
16:56:13 [Zakim]
Allen_Ginsberg should now be muted
16:58:40 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is talking?
16:58:50 [Zakim]
ChrisW, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Harold (24%), csma (95%)
16:59:00 [ChrisW]
zakim, mute Harold
16:59:00 [Zakim]
Harold should now be muted
16:59:37 [LeoraMorgenstern]
cmsa: proposal to start collecting requirements in an organized way, without having to redo already completed work. Proposal to set up format for requirements, have people enter already proposed requirements in format, have people vote on them (e.g., suggest subsets of requirements).
17:00:46 [Zakim]
-PaulV
17:02:24 [LeoraMorgenstern]
sandro and ChrisW: discussion about how much we can pin down the requirements, at this early phase.
17:02:55 [csma]
+1 to what ChrisW said
17:02:57 [LeoraMorgenstern]
sandro: will have to open up discussion about design in order to more completely pin down the requirements.
17:03:07 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
17:03:12 [Darko]
Topic: 5. Classification
17:03:33 [csma]
ACTION: Chris to start email discussion about what issues are "fuzzy" wrt phase 1 & 2 [CONTINUED]
17:03:40 [StanDevitt]
Are the requirements linked to the relevant use cases?
17:03:57 [csma]
ACTION: JeffP, Hassan to review RAF pag [CONTINUED]
17:04:41 [csma]
ACTION: Harold to explain technically the basis for interoperation between PR and Horn rules. What pure production rules are - item 2 on slides (slide 5) “Syntactic and semantic extensions of Horn Logic”, points 2.1.1 - 2.1.3 [DONE]
17:05:03 [csma]
ACTION: JeffP to propose slight extension to medical decision support UC. [DONE]
17:06:02 [Darko]
Topic: 6. OWL & RDF Compatibility
17:06:11 [csma]
ACTION: csma to send an email to make a distinction between OWL and RIF roles [DROPPED]
17:06:24 [StanDevitt]
StanDevitt has joined #rif
17:06:43 [csma]
ACTION: Frank to make his point about semantics of production rules on the mailing list. [CONTINUED]
17:07:58 [LeoraMorgenstern]
ChrisW: initiated discussion about OWL/RDF compatibility.
17:08:13 [LeoraMorgenstern]
sandro: not caught up with the discussion, given all the other work.
17:08:34 [LeoraMorgenstern]
ChrisW: it's an important topic, so once we get through the use case work, we should try to be prepared for a discussion next week.
17:09:12 [FrankMcCabe]
q+
17:09:32 [LeoraMorgenstern]
cmsa: discussion between Francois and Bijan --- about requirements for reasoning in the RIF --- is also important.
17:09:52 [Francois]
+1
17:09:56 [LeoraMorgenstern]
ChrisW, cmsa: these are important for the design of the RIF.
17:11:05 [sandro]
+1 Frank -- many of the questions about how RIF carries OWL are more generally about how RIF carries other languages.
17:11:37 [sandro]
q?
17:12:05 [Uli]
+1
17:12:48 [Francois]
+1
17:12:49 [edbark]
q+
17:13:20 [csma]
ack frankmc
17:13:36 [sandro]
Frank: It wont be possible to map OWL to RIF without loss.
17:13:40 [Uli]
q+
17:13:51 [LeoraMorgenstern]
cmsa: while not necessarily role of RIF to translate, according to charter, must at least specify in which cases mapping is or is not possible.
17:14:08 [csma]
ack edb
17:14:23 [LeoraMorgenstern]
Frank McCabe: <missed response to cmsa; get later>
17:14:40 [LeoraMorgenstern]
I mean, I missed Frank's response.
17:14:50 [sandro]
Note on what the charter actually says, see http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/charter#deliverables , "Deliverables: A W3C Recommendation on using this rule interchange format in combination with OWL." etc.
17:15:03 [FrankMcCabe]
There is a difference between mapping and representing.
17:15:03 [ChrisW]
frank, if you could type your comment into the irc
17:15:35 [ChrisW]
q?
17:15:39 [FrankMcCabe]
I believe mapping will be impossible for all interesting rule languages. However representing is more of a meta-level annotation and should be doable
17:15:58 [LeoraMorgenstern]
Ed: There are a bunch of things, such as transitive closure, that rules engines typically can't do. Is this what's meant by lack of compatibility?
17:16:20 [LeoraMorgenstern]
IanH: If we have semantic compatibility, may not be necessary to have a mapping.
17:16:29 [MarkusK]
+1
17:16:31 [csma]
ack ian
17:16:34 [csma]
ack uli
17:16:42 [LeoraMorgenstern]
IanH: Conversely, if there's no semantic compatibility, will be hard to construct mapping.
17:16:51 [FrankMcCabe]
+1
17:17:09 [JeffP]
+1
17:17:27 [josb]
+1 to Uli's comment
17:17:45 [csma]
q?
17:17:57 [LeoraMorgenstern]
Uli: Idea that ontologies and rules live in the same KB. In this case, mapping not really necessary. (Uli, if I got this wrong, please let m eknow.)
17:18:14 [sandro]
(people saying "+1" should probably make sure the IRC log reflects the statement you are agreeing with)
17:18:54 [StanDevitt]
+1
17:18:55 [csma]
+1
17:18:56 [PaulaP]
+1
17:18:59 [Zakim]
-msintek
17:19:01 [Zakim]
-IanH
17:19:02 [Zakim]
-Harold
17:19:02 [PaulV]
quit bye all
17:19:04 [Zakim]
-Ed_Barkmeyer
17:19:05 [Zakim]
-Deborah_Nichols
17:19:06 [Darko]
-Darko
17:19:06 [Zakim]
-Igor_Mozetic
17:19:07 [PaulaP]
bye
17:19:07 [Zakim]
-Deepali_Khushraj
17:19:08 [JeffP]
bye
17:19:08 [msintek]
msintek has left #rif
17:19:08 [Zakim]
-Dave_Reynolds
17:19:08 [josb]
I agree with Uli's comment that it should be clear how OWL DL and RIF interoperate, not how to interchange OWL DL using RIF
17:19:09 [Zakim]
-Allen_Ginsberg
17:19:10 [Zakim]
-pfps
17:19:11 [Zakim]
-Gary_Hallmark
17:19:12 [Zakim]
-FrankMcCabe
17:19:14 [Zakim]
-GiorgosStoilos
17:19:16 [Zakim]
-[IPcaller]
17:19:17 [ugo]
ugo has left #rif
17:19:18 [Zakim]
-Mike_Dean
17:19:20 [Zakim]
-DonaldC
17:19:22 [Zakim]
-MarkusK
17:19:24 [Zakim]
-Ugo_Corda
17:19:26 [Zakim]
-StanDevitt
17:19:28 [Zakim]
-Darko
17:19:30 [Zakim]
-Francois
17:19:32 [Zakim]
-Philippe_Bonnard
17:19:34 [Zakim]
-Axel_Polleres
17:19:36 [Zakim]
-johnhall
17:19:38 [Zakim]
-JeffP
17:19:40 [Zakim]
-PaulaP
17:19:47 [Zakim]
-Uli
17:19:47 [sandro]
zakim, who is here?
17:19:48 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Sandro, LeoraMorgenstern, csma, josb (muted), ChrisW, Andreas_Harth (muted)
17:19:50 [Zakim]
On IRC I see sandro, IanH, edbark, pfps, JeffP, mdean, aharth, josb, ChrisW, Darko, Uli, LeoraMorgenstern, MarkusK, RRSAgent, Zakim, csma, PaulaP, ericP, Keeper
17:19:51 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, please draft the minutes
17:19:51 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'please draft the minutes', ChrisW. Try /msg RRSAgent help
17:19:55 [Zakim]
-josb
17:20:05 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, please format the minutes
17:20:05 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'please format the minutes', ChrisW. Try /msg RRSAgent help
17:20:07 [Zakim]
-Andreas_Harth
17:20:15 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, make minutes
17:20:15 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/03/07-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
17:20:58 [ericP]
ericP has left #rif
17:21:01 [sandro]
chair: Chris Welty
17:21:06 [sandro]
RRSAgent, pointer?
17:21:06 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2006/03/07-rif-irc#T17-21-06
17:22:40 [Zakim]
-LeoraMorgenstern
17:27:28 [PaulaP]
PaulaP has left #rif
17:40:50 [csma]
http://www.w3.org/2006/02/28-rif-minutes.html
17:40:58 [Zakim]
-ChrisW
17:57:37 [Zakim]
-Sandro
17:57:38 [Zakim]
-csma
17:57:39 [Zakim]
SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended
17:57:41 [Zakim]
Attendees were Sandro, Francois, csma, PaulaP, Deborah_Nichols, MarkusK, LeoraMorgenstern, FrankMcCabe, Allen_Ginsberg, Ugo_Corda, +49.715.2.aaaa, DonaldC, Harold, msintek,
17:57:45 [Zakim]
... GiorgosStoilos, ChrisW, josb, +1.435.125.aabb, Igor_Mozetic, Darko, johnhall, Mike_Dean, Uli, Gary_Hallmark, JeffP, Dave_Reynolds, StanDevitt, PaulV, Ed_Barkmeyer, pfps,
17:57:48 [Zakim]
... Deepali_Khushraj, Axel_Polleres, Andreas_Harth, IanH, Philippe_Bonnard, [IPcaller]
18:27:34 [ChrisW]
zakim, leave
18:27:34 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #rif
18:27:38 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, leave
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
I see 40 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/07-rif-actions.rdf :
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Sandro to organize WBS vote on f2f meeting [DONE] [1]
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/07-rif-irc#T16-17-49
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: AxelP to set up logistics F2F page. see http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/F2F3 [DONE] [2]
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/07-rif-irc#T16-18-15-2
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Peter P-S to make proposal on Wiki for F2F at ISWC, Athens, Nov 2006. See http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Mar/0044.html [DONE] [3]
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/07-rif-irc#T16-18-45
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: PFPS to try to find somebody to sponsor the F2F4 [4]
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/07-rif-irc#T16-20-33
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: EdB to propose solution for F2F4 in relation with BRF [6]
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/07-rif-irc#T16-25-47
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Dieter to review the Requirements http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/UCR/Requirements [CONTINUED] [7]
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/07-rif-irc#T16-28-48
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Axel to review the Requirements http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/UCR/Requirements. see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Feb/0178.html [DONE] [8]
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/07-rif-irc#T16-29-30
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JosDB to review the Requirements http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/UCR/Requirements. see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Feb/0197.html [DONE] [9]
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/07-rif-irc#T16-29-56
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Chris Welty will come up with another example narrative for a RichKR use case . action deprecated by f2f resolution on section [DROPPED] [10]
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/07-rif-irc#T16-30-32
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Dieter to review the Requirements http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/UCR/Requirements [DROPPED] [11]
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/07-rif-irc#T16-31-53
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Chris Welty will come up with another example narrative for a RichKR use case . action deprecated by f2f resolution on section [DROPPED] [12]
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/07-rif-irc#T16-32-16
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: csma will incite data access discussion on mailing list [CONTINUED] [13]
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/07-rif-irc#T16-32-37
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Allen to respond to "Third Party" comments. see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Feb/0247.html [DONE] [14]
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/07-rif-irc#T16-32-59
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Chris to respond to RichKR comments (completed by IanH). [see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Feb/0215.html] [DONE] [15]
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/07-rif-irc#T16-33-20
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Christian to respond to "Publication" comments. action deprecated by f2f resolution on section [DROPPED] [16]
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/07-rif-irc#T16-33-41
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Ed to synthesize comments on Coverage by Friday and propose ways to answer the comments. see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Feb/0250.html [DONE] [17]
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/07-rif-irc#T16-34-05
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: ?FrankMcCabe to respond to "Information Integration" comments. action deprecated by f2f resolution on section [DROPPED] [18]
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/07-rif-irc#T16-34-58
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Leora to respond to "Decision Support" comments. see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Feb/0251.html [DONE] [19]
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/07-rif-irc#T16-35-25
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: paula to clarify list of requirements taking comments into account. see RIFUCR - List of Classified Requirements (with Duplicate Elimination) [DONE] [20]
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/07-rif-irc#T16-35-52
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Paula to respond to "Policy-Based..." comments. see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Feb/0242.html [DONE] [21]
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/07-rif-irc#T16-36-14
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: PaulV to respond to "Cross-Platform..." comments. action deprecated by f2f resolution [DROPPED] [22]
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/07-rif-irc#T16-36-34
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Said to respond to Human rules comments. Action deprecated by f2f resulution [DROPPED] [23]
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/07-rif-irc#T16-36-58
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Said to rspond to "Third Party" comments. Action completed by AllenG. [DROPPED] [24]
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/07-rif-irc#T16-37-24
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: PaulV to modify UC 2.3, new title ("Negotiating e-Busines Contracts across Rule Platforms") and different description. [CONTINUED] [25]
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/07-rif-irc#T16-37-45
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: PFPS to ask Ian to make changes to use case RichKR ( remove uncle example and replace with brain anatomy example; make title be Interchanging rule extensions to OWL - A Brain Anatomy Research Example). see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Mar/0044.html [DONE] [26]
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/07-rif-irc#T16-38-43
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: ?FranckMcCabe to remove data integration from 2.1, retitle (Access to Business Rules of Supply Chain Partners), and revise, ensuring that there are rules there. See http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Mar/0031.html [DONE] [27]
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/07-rif-irc#T16-39-06
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Sandro to add new use case about data integration (title: "Vocabularly Mapping for Data Integration"). [DONE] [28]
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/07-rif-irc#T16-39-27
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Allan as editor of UCR to remove 2.6. See http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Mar/0024.html [DONE] [29]
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/07-rif-irc#T16-39-49
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Chris to tell Leora to make changes to 2.2 (change title to Ruleset integration for Medical Decision Support, drop e-learning, concentrate on prescription part (and extend slightly). [DONE] [30]
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/07-rif-irc#T16-40-14
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: John, Don, Said - Retitle UC "Managing Inter-Organizational Business Policies and Practices" and rewrite. [CONTINUED] [31]
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/07-rif-irc#T16-40-37
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Christian to create new Wiki page for requirements [CONTINUED] [32]
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/07-rif-irc#T16-41-00
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Chris to start email discussion about what issues are "fuzzy" wrt phase 1 & 2 [CONTINUED] [33]
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/07-rif-irc#T16-41-28
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: UCR editors to create a new Wiki page for collecting 2nd draft UC candidates [34]
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/07-rif-irc#T16-47-08
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: UCR editors prepare draft for review by Wednesday night and send email to the list when the draft is ready [35]
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/07-rif-irc#T16-52-31
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Chris to start email discussion about what issues are "fuzzy" wrt phase 1 & 2 [CONTINUED] [36]
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/07-rif-irc#T17-03-33
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JeffP, Hassan to review RAF pag [CONTINUED] [37]
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/07-rif-irc#T17-03-57
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Harold to explain technically the basis for interoperation between PR and Horn rules. What pure production rules are - item 2 on slides (slide 5) “Syntactic and semantic extensions of Horn Logic”, points 2.1.1 - 2.1.3 [DONE] [38]
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/07-rif-irc#T17-04-41
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JeffP to propose slight extension to medical decision support UC. [DONE] [39]
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/07-rif-irc#T17-05-03
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: csma to send an email to make a distinction between OWL and RIF roles [DROPPED] [40]
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/07-rif-irc#T17-06-11
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Frank to make his point about semantics of production rules on the mailing list. [CONTINUED] [41]
18:27:38 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/07-rif-irc#T17-06-43