13:55:14 RRSAgent has joined #htmltf
13:55:14 logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/03/06-htmltf-irc
13:55:20 Meeting: RDF-in-XHTML TF
13:55:27 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2006Mar/0000.html
13:55:34 Zakim has joined #htmltf
13:55:39 zakim, this will be html
13:55:40 ok, RalphS; I see SW_BPD(rdfxhtml)9:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
13:56:35 Previous: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2006Feb/0034.html 2006-02-21
14:01:04 SW_BPD(rdfxhtml)9:00AM has now started
14:01:06 benadida has joined #htmltf
14:01:11 +Ben_Adida
14:02:11 +Ralph
14:02:15 -Ben_Adida
14:02:16 +Ben_Adida
14:02:37 MarkB_ has joined #htmltf
14:02:57 +[IPcaller]
14:03:10 Steven has joined #htmltf
14:03:18 zakim, ipcaller is Jeremy
14:03:18 +Jeremy; got it
14:03:19 +??P7
14:03:20 zakim, i am ?
14:03:20 +MarkB_; got it
14:03:22 zakim, dial steven-617
14:03:23 ok, Steven; the call is being made
14:03:23 +Steven
14:03:40 jeremy has joined #htmltf
14:04:16 Chair: Ben
14:04:29 Topic: TP Week debrief
14:04:50 Steven: we had an RDF/A discussion in HTML WG on Tuesday afternoon
14:05:01 ... EricM and Jeremy participated
14:05:14 ... Ralph too
14:05:18 Ralph: but I was late
14:05:41 Ben: I'll be talking Wednesday morning at Semantic Technologies conference on interoperable metadata, including RDF/A
14:06:37 Ralph: we learned that the WWW2006 Developer's Track submission deadline has been extended by 2 weeks
14:06:57 http://www.w3.org/2006/02/28-html-irc#T12-36-17
14:07:05 RDF/A discussion
14:07:10 Ben: I'm not certain yet whether I'll be able to go to Edinburgh; looking good but don't yet have funding commitment
14:08:16 Steven: Shane took an action to followup with prototype.js people to see if RDF/A processing can be added
14:08:37 -> http://www.w3.org/2006/02/28-html-irc#T13-44-23 Shane's action
14:08:49 Steven: Shane knows those people
14:09:02 Steven: there was a big panel during the Plenary on microformats
14:09:17 ... the microformats are trying to do what RDF/A does but without adding new attributes
14:09:26 ... so they're reusing old HTML attributes; e.g. title
14:09:34 ... this is a kind of attribute abuse
14:09:52 ... it's a shame that the panel organizers did not ask someone from RDF/A to talk; that would have made the panel more interesting
14:10:12 ... but there was discussion amongst the RDF/A folk afterward on how we might leverage the microformat buzz
14:10:23 ... but EricM did point out that microformats is one of the use cases of RDF/A
14:10:45 q+ to mention Fabien Gandon, INRIA
14:10:47 ... someone else pointed out that we need a way to register rel and role values
14:10:58 ... to make these values 'findable'
14:11:19 ... if you already have a microformat for date, events, or people you can go to microformat.org where these are recorded
14:11:46 ... this person was suggesting the need for a similar thing for RDF/A; how do people find Dublin Core, etc.; wants a site where the existence of these can be recorded
14:12:05 Ben: there's a difference in philosophy between RDF and microformats -- is there one place where you go to find everything?
14:12:11 q+ to comment on registries
14:12:36 Ben: could be a fair point for early adopters; we may need to get marketing-savvy, set up a blog
14:13:12 ack jer
14:13:13 q+
14:13:15 jeremy, you wanted to mention Fabien Gandon, INRIA
14:13:22 zakim, q+
14:13:22 I see RalphS, MarkB_ on the speaker queue
14:13:42 Jeremy: Fabien Gandon talked in SWIG about his work. He said he expects to have an RDF/A implementation in the next quarter
14:13:55 ... I encouraged him to send mail to this TF list
14:14:12 ... and to make a Developers' Track submission
14:14:56 ... I intend to followup on this with Fabien
14:16:16 RalphS, you wanted to comment on registries
14:19:14 Ralph: the Semantic Web Activity draft proposal is a good context in which to provide feedback on W3C providing a registry of vocabularies and ontologies
14:20:04 Ben: there's also a need for a marketing place for RDF/A
14:20:21 ... some place to point people to where they'll get stories
14:20:30 q+ to mention naming
14:21:12 Mark: agree with Ben; a registry can be separate from place for RDF/A materials
14:21:26 ... registry is not essential immediately for RDF/A success
14:21:46 ... all we really need is pointers to 2 or 3 taxonomies that someone would need, such as FOAF
14:22:04 ... so some way to point to these. RSS would also fill a lot of needs, as does Dublin Core
14:22:18 ... we don't need a general-purpose mechanism for the kinds of authors we're talking to initially
14:22:42 ... the shutr example speaks to people who will know about lots of taxonomies already
14:22:56 ... the marketing discussion is more important
14:23:13 ... I was frustrated that EricM hadn't prepared for the HTML WG meeting
14:23:32 ... in the end it was a useful discussion and a lot of points did come out
14:23:47 ... re: microformats, I think it was a shame we didn't have our own panel
14:24:17 Ben: I take some responsibility, as I didn't push hard on Creative Commons to attend the Tech Plenary
14:24:32 ... after seeing the microformats panel I realized we should have had more of a presence there
14:24:55 q+ to talk about a related xforms point
14:25:23 Mark: someone noted that microformats don't scale and RDF/A does
14:25:52 ... EricM was suggesting building demos, etc. Do we have people willing to do this work?
14:26:18 ... we're doing a lot in our XForms processor -- it now follows links, gets CC icons.
14:26:33 ... doesn't yet parse RDF/A; that's more than I want to do in javascript
14:27:00 ... but we could work on a demo that parses metadata from flicr
14:27:05 s/flicr/flickr/
14:27:38 ... I suggested to Shane that we could hand our script to the prototype.js folk
14:31:10 jeremy, you wanted to mention naming
14:32:12 Jeremy: regarding index/registry -- there was some HP concern about whether this was an appropriate role for W3C
14:33:21 ... I could see whether HP still holds the same opinion it previously expressed
14:33:57 ... regarding publicity, during the HTML WG meeting last week one of the more compelling comments was that "RDF/A" was not a good name
14:34:07 zakim, q+
14:34:07 I see RalphS, Steven, MarkB_ on the speaker queue
14:34:20 ... it may be helpful to think of a better name
14:34:45 RalphS, you wanted to comment re: preparedness
14:36:28 Ralph: I'd intended to participate in the RDF/A discussion during HTML WG agenda but got detained elsewhere, so EricM was filling in for me
14:36:51 q+ to talk reification
14:37:08 Steven: Mark Seaborne in Forms WG said he planned to markup the WG to-do list data with RDF/A
14:37:26 ... this is a positive indication as I wasn't even aware that he knew about RDF/A
14:37:38 Steven, you wanted to talk about a related xforms point
14:38:12 q+ to note an issue for future
14:38:40 Mark: there was some discussion about whether an XHTML 1.1 module could give us enough of the RDF/A features
14:38:46 q+
14:39:09 ... talking with Shane offline it seemed we could get most but not all of the features with a 1.1 module; e.g. link and meta permitted anywhere
14:39:41 q+ to ask Mark about next steps on 1.1 module
14:41:01 Mark: if we can't stop people from using some of these HTML attributes perhaps it would be better to show people how to do it in a principled way
14:41:17 ... if I was to work on a module, does anyone have any fundamental objections?
14:41:23 - no ojections from me, more support!
14:41:35 Steven: I've backed off my original position on 'cherry picking'
14:41:57 ... moving these things in and creating, e.g. an XHTML 1.2 that adds RDF/A, role, and a few other things will make the path to XHTML2 much easier
14:42:15 ... XHTML2 might just become XHTML1.3 as the extra bits might actually be quite small
14:42:22 ... on reflection I think this may be a good approach
14:42:30 ... not just for RDF/A but for XHTML2 in general
14:43:06 Mark: the other thing that makes what Steven has described possible is that there was general agreement within the HTML WG that we should stick with tho current XHTML namespace
14:43:14 what us the namespace URI?
14:43:19 Steven: there's an issue about the namespace URI, as it doesn't end in '/'
14:43:47 I should tkae an action on namespace ...
14:43:59 Ralph: I support work on an XHTML 1.1 module
14:44:57 +1
14:45:15 RESOLVED: this task force agrees that it should look into a solution to incorporate RDF/A as an XHTML 1.1 module
14:45:46 Steven: if XHTML2 just appears as a collection of modules, it would still need to be called XHTML 1.2, but that's fine
14:47:06 ACTION: Mark work on a first draft of an RDF/A XHTML 1.1 module
14:47:31 ACTION: Jeremy look into the XHTML namespace issue and write thoughts into email
14:48:14 Mark: there was a lot of discussion of this after the WG meeting
14:48:27 ... in particular, WAI does need to be able to construct URIs for roles
14:48:48 ... CURIEs might help us find a solution
14:49:37 jeremy, you wanted to talk reification
14:50:10 Jeremy: one coffee-time discussion with TimBL and DanC revealed that they are keen to remove reification from RDF
14:50:22 RalphS, you wanted to note an issue for future and to ask Mark about next steps on 1.1 module and to comment on namespace
14:52:51 I believe HP would support appropriate continuation of this TF
14:53:06 Ralph: I'm hearing more and more vibes that a 1.1 module will be crucial work
14:53:37 [DONE] ACTION: Ben add DL to the future issues list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-htmltf-minutes.html#action14]
14:53:44 [DONE] ACTION: Ben note that about="" is redundant in 3.3.2 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-htmltf-minutes.html#action15]
14:53:53 [DONE] ACTION: Ben note that DL is deferred to a future version [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-htmltf-minutes.html#action13]
14:54:23 [PENDING] ACTION: Ben talk off-line with Jeremy about a realistic implementation schedule [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-htmltf-minutes.html#action01]
14:55:14 Jeremy: I've been reviewing my workload with my manager and the result is that I may focus my W3C time on RDF/A work
14:55:41 [PENDING] ACTION: Steven draft a WWW2006 Developer's Track proposal [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-htmltf-minutes.html#action16]
14:55:57 Steven: I plan to do the draft this week, as the pressure was taken off last week
14:56:03 [PENDING] ACTION: Ben start separate mail threads on remaining discussion topics [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action04]
14:56:10 [PENDING] ACTION: Ben to draft full response to Bjoern's 2004 email [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/24-swbp-minutes.html#action03]
14:56:43 Ben: only one question remaining; are we sufficiently confident in the RDF Container work to say it will be included in a future Working Draft?
14:57:09 Mark: perhaps omit NL as we're considering an XHTML 1.1 module
14:58:11 Ralph: I think including NL is appropriate in the context of XHTML2 and it would simply be one of several things in the list of things that can't be done in 1.1 module
14:59:32 ... will the XHTML2 editors be able to accomodate the additional container language?
14:59:37 Steven: shouldn't be a problem
14:59:42 [PENDING] ACTION: Jeremy followup on edge case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action03]
14:59:54 [PENDING] ACTION: Jeremy followup with Mark on the question of multiple triples from nested meta and add to issues list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action01]
14:59:59 [PENDING] ACTION: Jeremy propose wording on reification [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action02]
15:00:05 [PENDING] ACTION: once Steven sends editors' draft of XHTML2, all TF members take a look and comment on showstopper issues only [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/06-htmltf-minutes.html#action01]
15:00:14 Steven: editor's draft hasn't yet been published
15:00:17 [PENDING] ACTION: Ralph add a sentence to 2.2.3 pointing to a citation for the triples syntax [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/13-htmltf-minutes.html#action09]
15:01:13 next meeting: 13 March
15:01:18 -Ralph
15:01:21 -Jeremy
15:01:24 -Steven
15:01:26 -MarkB_
15:01:30 -Ben_Adida
15:01:33 SW_BPD(rdfxhtml)9:00AM has ended
15:01:34 Attendees were Ben_Adida, Ralph, Jeremy, MarkB_, Steven
15:52:28 benadida has left #htmltf
17:03:59 Zakim has left #htmltf
20:02:45 RRSAgent has joined #htmltf
20:02:45 logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/03/06-htmltf-irc
20:02:49 rrsagent, please make log public
20:02:56 rrsagent, please draft minutes
20:02:56 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/03/06-htmltf-minutes.html RalphS
20:03:06 rrsagent, bye
20:03:06 I see no action items