IRC log of dawg on 2006-03-03

Timestamps are in UTC.

08:14:04 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/03/03-dawg-irc
08:14:34 [ericP]
Meekting: RDF Data Access Working Group (DAWG) Face to Face
08:14:41 [ericP]
Chair: ericP
08:14:58 [ericP]
Scribe: LeeF
08:15:06 [LeeF]
Meeting: RDF Data Access Working Group (DAWG) Face to Face
08:15:10 [ericP]
http://www.w3.org/Search/Mail/Public/search?keywords=request+for+testcase&hdr-1-name=subject&hdr-1-query=&index-grp=Public__FULL&index-type=t&type-index=public-rdf-dawg -> requests for test cases
08:15:56 [LeeF]
Present: AndyS, ericP, SerT, SvenGroppe, AndyS, EliasT
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08:22:18 [LeeF]
Present+ SteveH
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08:28:25 [SerT]
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08:33:46 [ericP]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005OctDec/thread#msg52 -> schema
08:51:31 [LeeF]
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08:52:33 [LeeF]
(discussion of test case schema vocabulary)
08:54:56 [LeeF]
SerT: do we have any cases in which we need multiple test cases to cover a requirement?
08:55:04 [LeeF]
Group: we think we can avoid that
08:55:45 [EliasT]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/test-dawg.n3
08:58:36 [LeeF]
SteveH: To start to clean up the tests, we could reject (or delete) the tests that use the old syntax
08:59:54 [EliasT]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/simple2/
09:00:09 [EliasT]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/simple2/manifest.n3
09:00:48 [LeeF]
-> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/simple2/manifest.n3 old syntax tests
09:01:29 [LeeF]
ericP: as per W3c persistence policy, keep everything in current test directories (mark with big red Xes if they are misleading)
09:01:40 [LeeF]
... also provide a tarball of approved tests
09:02:48 [LeeF]
AndyS: target audience is SPARQL implementors who will provide experience reports during CR, so we should have a download which is only the approved tests
09:03:43 [LeeF]
SteveH: why are the tests in an rdf:List
09:04:18 [LeeF]
AndyS: ordering is nice when running tests - if a test fails, the failure alwats occurs at the same place in the testing procedure
09:04:24 [LeeF]
s/alwats/always
09:05:30 [LeeF]
ericP: other WGs produce and publish tests. do we want to publish our approved tests as a Note, a subset of which are the ones that support requirements which apply to CR exit criteria
09:06:25 [LeeF]
SerT: Test cases should not be used to show the conformance of implementations
09:06:48 [LeeF]
SerT: keep implementation/conformance requirements distinguished from requirements of defining the query language
09:08:59 [LeeF]
AndyS: w3c doesn't have authority to draw conclusions from implementations that pass certain tests
09:09:23 [LeeF]
SteveH: "approved" tests mean that the WG believes that the test accurately reflects the specification of the QL
09:09:38 [LeeF]
ericP: 3 options here
09:09:57 [LeeF]
... 1) keep everything in 2001/.../tests/data annotated appropriately to allow informed use of that data
09:10:18 [LeeF]
...2) sequester the tests that support requirements in a separate place to allow implementors to run those tests to support our CR exit criteria
09:10:36 [LeeF]
... 3) that in addition to 2, or in a separate place, we have the approved tests that do not support requirements
09:11:00 [LeeF]
SerT: -1 on other approved tests in a separate place due to concerns of maintaining consistency
09:14:44 [LeeF]
(discussion of how to avoid lists in the test schema)
09:16:04 [LeeF]
EliasT: we don't need tests in a list for the protocol tests
09:16:42 [LeeF]
AndyS: To the projector!
09:17:30 [LeeF]
(AndyS shows us the following:)
09:17:42 [LeeF]
running a JUnit test cuite inside Eclipse
09:17:51 [LeeF]
a green bar grows across the screen
09:18:16 [LeeF]
1140 tests are run, displayed in groups
09:18:51 [LeeF]
about 400 of the tests are scripted -- they come from manfiest files
09:25:24 [LeeF]
ericP: one approach is to stay with lists -- people running the manifests in that case cannot use SPARQL--
09:25:34 [LeeF]
SteveH: that's not true because you can query based on other predicates
09:27:29 [EliasT]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005OctDec/0052.html
09:28:30 [ericP]
http://unagi/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/SyntaxFull/manifest.ttl -> SyntaxFull manifest
09:29:02 [ericP]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/SyntaxFull/manifest.ttl -> SyntaxFull manifest
09:30:36 [LeeF]
SerT: by using SPARQL to query for items which have an action, you can't find which group a particular test belongs to
09:31:55 [LeeF]
SteveH: use GRAPH ?g to associate actions with manifest origin
09:32:16 [LeeF]
SteveH: that way we can build everything with a single CONSTRUCT query
09:32:33 [LeeF]
SerT: we can preprocess the data and shortcut the list structure with the rdf:member property
09:33:53 [LeeF]
ericP: we still need pub;lication mechanism and (b) ????
09:33:58 [LeeF]
AndyS: and who is the test case editor?
09:35:11 [LeeF]
s/???/publication contents/
09:35:26 [LeeF]
s/publication contents?/publication contents/
09:35:27 [AndyS]
Sergio suggested adding mf:member property to directly connect the manifest to the action
09:35:58 [AndyS]
AndyS: This could be as well as the list structure.
09:35:59 [LeeF]
ericP: publish 1 directory structure and tarball thathas every manifest entry that is approved
09:36:16 [AndyS]
... The addition properties can be added mechanically.
09:37:02 [LeeF]
ericP: people who are doing CR testing will do a query for supportsRequirements
09:37:14 [LeeF]
... this leads to our matrix of test case coverage
09:39:32 [LeeF]
SerT: only concern is that we maintain coherence in the entire tests structure
09:39:42 [LeeF]
ericP: Manifest of manifests (a la AndyS) will do this
09:40:29 [LeeF]
everyone agrees on publishing this as a Note
09:41:04 [LeeF]
ericP: should we have unapproved tests in the structure that we publish as a Note?
09:41:07 [LeeF]
ericP: No.
09:41:12 [LeeF]
err
09:41:14 [LeeF]
SerT: No.
09:41:56 [LeeF]
ericP: master will continue to be 2001/.../tests/data
09:44:55 [LeeF]
ericP: add fromManifest property pointing from manifest entries to the manifest itself
09:46:10 [LeeF]
[ coffee break while ericP does homework ]
10:00:04 [AndyS]
[ Eric starts homework ]
10:15:41 [AndyS]
Issue: protocol examples use URIs (http://www.example/) that don't actually have an RDF graph behind them.
10:16:11 [AndyS]
... so we can't just publish the protocol examples and have implementers execute them directly.
10:23:38 [AndyS]
[ WG works on designing the query test manifest ]
10:35:58 [ericP]
PROPOSED: 1) create manifest manifest 2) add the includes, fromManifest and supportsRequirement per photo from meeting record 3) publish a copy of 2001/test/data/ that includes all approved tests
10:37:04 [ericP]
PROPOSED: 1) create manifest manifest 2) add the includes, fromManifest and supportsRequirement per photo from meeting record 3) publish a WG test note that includes a copy of 2001/test/data/ that includes all approved tests
10:37:14 [AndyS]
http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-minutes.html#action16
10:38:11 [ericP]
PROPOSED: 1) create manifest manifest 2) add the includes, fromManifest and supportsRequirement per photo from meeting record 3) publish a WG test note that extracts the ManifestManifest, manifests and all approved tests from 2001/test/data/ that
10:38:29 [ericP]
PROPOSED: 1) create manifest manifest 2) add the includes, fromManifest and supportsRequirement per photo from meeting record 3) publish a WG test note that extracts the ManifestManifest, manifests and all approved tests from 2001/test/data/
10:39:41 [ericP]
APPROVED, AndyS abstains
10:41:59 [LeeF]
Present+ DanC
10:42:02 [ericP]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/lc-status-report -> LC status report (note open and pending threads)
10:42:06 [jeen]
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10:45:44 [DanC_lap]
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10:45:52 [LeeF]
ScribeNick: ericP
10:46:39 [ericP]
scribe: ericP
10:47:30 [ericP]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/lc-status-report -> LC status report (note open and pending threads)
10:51:46 [EliasT]
that's ok jeen. Now you may come in to the room.
10:54:06 [DanC_lap]
# 2005-09-08T01:26:59Z Peter F. Patel-Schneider
10:54:49 [ericP]
ACTION: DanC to join the [2005-09-08T01:26:59Z Peter F. Patel-Schneider] thread with PPS's late Feb comments
10:56:25 [ericP]
resolution path on [2005-09-09T20:39:31Z Dan Connolly]: ask if Ian Horrocks is satisfied with DAWG resolution of owlDisjunction
10:56:44 [DanC_lap]
which isn't novel from this meeting; that's just a matter of course
11:00:14 [DanC_lap]
ACTION: patH to respond to PFPS comments [WITHDRAWN]
11:00:21 [ericP]
action -2
11:00:33 [DanC_lap]
overtaken by pfpf's late feb comments
11:02:06 [ericP]
ACTION: SergioT to ask Ian Horrocks if he is satisfied with DAWG resolution of owlDisjunction
11:02:39 [DanC_lap]
i.e. reply to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2005Sep/0049
11:05:01 [ericP]
SerT, i've just bounced efb2f1492677c59ad7c4459e134425f6@cs.man.ac.uk to you
11:05:19 [DanC_lap]
(steveh is excused for a bit)
11:07:56 [ericP]
ACTION: DanC to fix the "inconsistent use of terminology" [2005-09-23T14:34:50Z Peter F. Patel-Schneider] thread
11:57:36 [ericP]
http://unagi/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#optionals
11:59:37 [ericP]
1.595 (aseaborn 19-Dec-05): <p>The <code>OPTIONAL</code> keyword is lef
11:59:37 [ericP]
t-associative : </p>
11:59:41 [DanC_lap]
investigating ter Horst's comments. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2005Oct/0068
12:18:47 [EliasT]
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12:20:25 [DanC_lap]
2006-02-22T14:46:35Z Arjohn Kampman
12:20:27 [ericP]
ACTION: AndyS to respond to [2006-02-22T14:46:35Z Arjohn Kampman]
12:21:22 [SteveH]
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12:22:43 [ericP]
ACTION: LeeF to create test case resulting from 2006-03-03T11:15Z (before lunch, 2nd day) whiteboard discussion
12:23:07 [ericP]
ACTION: EricP to respond to [2006-02-23T09:38:05Z Arjohn Kampman]
12:23:47 [DanC_lap]
# SPARQL Dataset Graph Pattern
12:23:47 [DanC_lap]
* 2006-02-23T16:02:59Z Olivier Corby
12:23:56 [ericP]
ACTION: AndyS to respond to [2006-02-24T08:45:23Z Olivier Corby]
12:25:53 [DanC_lap]
# Typos in SPARQL
12:25:54 [DanC_lap]
* 2006-02-24T08:45:23Z Olivier Corby
12:26:32 [ericP]
ACTION: EricP to work on [2006-02-24T08:45:23Z Olivier Corby], potentially automating examples2tests
12:29:17 [ericP]
ACTION: SvenG to follow up with Reto Krummenacher on [2006-02-24T16:40:55Z Reto Krummenacher]
12:33:00 [ericP]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/lc-status-report -> lc-status-report
12:39:13 [ericP]
ACTION: SergioT to respond to [2005-09-18T15:02:48Z Peter F. Patel-Schneider]
12:43:36 [ericP]
ACTION: AndyS to change "this is" to "RDF graphs are" in response to both [2006-02-22T20:32:56Z Peter F. Patel-Schneider] and [2006-02-22T23:56:54Z Peter F. Patel-Schneider]
12:47:28 [EliasT]
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12:50:34 [LeeF]
ACTION : Jeen to figure out whether he can become test case editor and report back by telecon on Mar 14
12:51:10 [AndyS]
Scribe: AndyS
12:51:23 [LeeF]
ScribeNick: AndyS
12:51:35 [AndyS]
Process matters being considered
12:54:03 [AndyS]
No support for UC&R on rec track
12:54:15 [AndyS]
Agenda: JSON
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12:59:44 [LeeF]
--> http://www.mindswap.org/~kendall/sparql-results-json/
13:01:13 [AndyS]
JSON defined at http://json.org/
13:02:18 [AndyS]
Variable name used in hash tables for solutions
13:05:16 [AndyS]
Discussion on whether it should a W3C WG Note
13:11:06 [AndyS]
ACTION: Elias When finialized, email the WG for review as possible WG Note
13:11:33 [AndyS]
Review offered by: AndyS, Sergio, Steve
13:13:06 [AndyS]
</json>
13:13:26 [AndyS]
Back to tests:
13:14:28 [AndyS]
Review testing actions in the agenda
13:14:52 [AndyS]
* ACTION: JosD to make test case from Sergio's basic query patterns examples. progress
13:14:52 [AndyS]
* ACTION: EricP to fix test schema to match manifest with negative tests [recorded in 09/27-dawg-minutes.html#action16]
13:14:52 [AndyS]
* ACTION: DanC to follow up re optional test based on op:dateTime triple
13:14:52 [AndyS]
* ACTION DaveB: add to test suite the temperature case from comment on truth tables in commentor's message
13:15:37 [AndyS]
JosD action overtaken
13:16:02 [libby]
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13:16:04 [ericP]
ACTION: JosD to make test case from Sergio's basic query patterns examples. progress [WITHDRAWN]
13:16:13 [ericP]
action -15
13:16:19 [AndyS]
Sergio to email EricP with test case files
13:17:49 [SerT]
ACTION: SerT to make test case for bnode scope in different BGPs <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JanMar/0021.html>
13:22:13 [AndyS]
EricP outlines changes to testing format for bad syntax queries
13:23:06 [AndyS]
Change incolves formalizing the idea that an action is a blank node always
13:25:23 [AndyS]
Discussion on structure of testing vocabularies
13:26:31 [AndyS]
There are two vocabs: one for manifests/actions , one for query tests
13:27:08 [AndyS]
Discussion around negative syntax tests
13:30:30 [AndyS]
and the modelling in the manifest
13:36:17 [ericP]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/SyntaxDev/Syntax-SPARQL3/manifest.ttl
13:38:52 [AndyS]
SyntaxDev/* tests are a donation of the ARQ tests that test the parser generated from the javacc used to make the BNF in rq23
13:40:02 [AndyS]
ls
13:40:39 [ericP]
ACTION: EricP to fix test schema to match manifest with negative tests [WITHDRAWN]
13:40:41 [AndyS]
EricP: Negative tests not on the critical path to CR
13:40:47 [ericP]
action -17
13:41:03 [ericP]
that was EricP echoing SteveH
13:42:33 [ericP]
ACTION: DanC to follow up re optional test based on op:dateTime triple [CONTINUED]
13:44:23 [ericP]
ACTION: DaveB: add to test suite the temperature case from comment on truth tables in commentor's message [WITHDRAWN]
13:44:27 [ericP]
action -19
13:44:46 [AndyS]
</test actions review>
13:48:29 [ericP]
ADJOURNED
13:56:33 [EliasT]
http://www.json.org/java/index.html
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14:24:28 [ericP]
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