19:55:39 RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag 19:55:39 logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/03/02-wai-wcag-irc 19:55:56 zakim, list conferences 19:55:56 I see no active conferences 19:55:57 scheduled at this time are SVG_WG()2:00PM, XML_QueryWG(ttf)3:00PM, WAI_WCAG()3:00PM 19:56:05 zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG 19:56:05 ok, ben; I see WAI_WCAG()3:00PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes 19:56:18 RRSAgent, make log world 19:56:21 rellero has joined #wai-wcag 19:56:49 Meeting: WCAG Weekly Telecon 19:57:46 Makoto has joined #wai-wcag 19:58:33 Chair: Gregg_Vanderheiden and John_Slatin 19:58:48 WAI_WCAG()3:00PM has now started 19:58:55 +??P0 19:59:40 +??P1 19:59:44 -??P0 19:59:45 +??P0 19:59:46 +Michael_Cooper 19:59:49 judy has joined #wai-wcag 20:00:31 +Loretta_Guarino_Reid 20:00:48 +[IPcaller] 20:00:50 zakim, [IPcaller] is Makoto_Ueki 20:00:50 +Makoto_Ueki; got it 20:01:12 zakim, mute me 20:01:12 Makoto_Ueki should now be muted 20:01:20 -??P1 20:01:21 +[IPcaller] 20:01:27 +??P5 20:01:30 zakim, [IPCaller] is Roberto_Scano 20:01:30 +Roberto_Scano; got it 20:01:35 zakim, ??P5 is Gregg_and_Ben 20:01:35 +Gregg_and_Ben; got it 20:01:40 zakim, I am Roberto_Scano 20:01:40 ok, rscano, I now associate you with Roberto_Scano 20:01:42 +Andi_Snow_Weaver 20:01:44 zakim, mute me 20:01:44 Roberto_Scano should now be muted 20:01:46 +Yvette_Hoitink 20:01:50 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2006JanMar/0445.html 20:02:00 zakim, who is on the phone? 20:02:00 On the phone I see ??P0, Michael_Cooper, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Makoto_Ueki (muted), Roberto_Scano (muted), Gregg_and_Ben, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Yvette_Hoitink 20:02:05 zakim, who's making noise? 20:02:18 Yvette, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P0 (42%), Gregg_and_Ben (4%) 20:02:21 +Christophe_Strobbe 20:02:42 +[IPcaller] 20:02:44 +Katie_Haritos-Shea 20:02:46 zakim, [IPcaller] is rellero 20:02:46 +rellero; got it 20:02:52 zakim, mute me 20:02:52 rellero should now be muted 20:02:54 Becky has joined #wai-wcag 20:03:13 zakim, ??P0 is Cynthia_Shelly 20:03:13 +Cynthia_Shelly; got it 20:03:40 +Becky_Gibson 20:03:44 zakim, who's here 20:03:44 gregg, you need to end that query with '?' 20:03:58 zakim, who's here? 20:03:58 On the phone I see Cynthia_Shelly, Michael_Cooper, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Makoto_Ueki (muted), Roberto_Scano (muted), Gregg_and_Ben, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Yvette_Hoitink, 20:04:01 zakim, if you already know it needs a ? why don't you put it there? 20:04:01 ... Christophe_Strobbe, rellero (muted), Katie_Haritos-Shea (muted), Becky_Gibson 20:04:02 On IRC I see Becky, judy, Makoto, rellero, RRSAgent, Zakim, ben, Christophe, rscano, Yvette, gregg, Michael 20:04:05 I don't understand your question, Yvette. 20:04:12 +??P12 20:04:38 RylaDog has joined #wai-wcag 20:04:49 zakim, I am Becky_Gibson 20:04:49 ok, Becky, I now associate you with Becky_Gibson 20:04:50 +John_Slatin 20:04:56 jslatin has joined #wai-wcag 20:05:00 RRSAgent, pointer? 20:05:00 See http://www.w3.org/2006/03/02-wai-wcag-irc#T20-05-00 20:05:06 Sofia has joined #wai-wcag 20:05:50 +Sofia_Celic 20:06:37 +Alex_Li 20:06:42 scribe: Becky 20:07:22 Andi has joined #wai-wcag 20:08:57 Topic: Failure due to using the onblur event to change the context 20:11:31 q+ to say I'm a little lost now? my comments were different 20:11:54 bengt has joined #wai-wcag 20:12:08 ack john 20:12:57 +??P16 20:13:03 zakim, ??P16 is Bengt_Farre 20:13:03 +Bengt_Farre; got it 20:14:02 Resolution: Accept Failure due to using the onblur event to change the context as ammended 20:14:21 Topic: Failure due to opening pop-up windows that are not requested by the user 20:18:11 Action: Cynthia to explore techs and examples of occluding overlays. Due March 30, 2006 20:18:34 Resolution: Accept Failure due to opening new windows that are not requested by the user, Note the name change. 20:19:08 q+ 20:19:39 Topic: Validating delivery units 20:19:59 -Becky_Gibson 20:20:31 +Becky_Gibson 20:20:33 -Becky_Gibson 20:20:39 spec 20:20:52 matches spec 20:21:31 +Becky_Gibson 20:22:25 ack m 20:22:25 Michael_Cooper, you wanted to say I'm a little lost now? my comments were different 20:22:27 ack y 20:22:40 Resolution: Accept Validating Delivery Units as ammended 20:23:18 Agenda item 2: 20:23:23 Topic: Creating elements when creating new content. 20:24:03 This topic has been resurveyed - will be discussed later in call 20:24:29 Topic: Using semantic elements to mark up structure. 20:26:31 Resolution: Accept Using semantic elements to mark up structure. 20:26:43 Agenda item 3: GL 2.4 Techniques and Issues (Feb 23) 20:27:42 http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/gl24feb23/results 20:27:51 Topic: Providing link text that describes the destination of a link 20:29:54 ack John 20:29:56 ack Lor 20:30:08 zakim, unmute me 20:30:08 Becky_Gibson was not muted, Becky 20:31:24 ack Cyn 20:31:53 Resolution: Accept Providing link text that describes the destination of a link as ammended. 20:32:22 Topic: Using the title attribute of the frame element 20:33:30 Resolution: Accept Using the title attribute of the frame element 20:34:41 Topic: Failure due to providing adjacent image and text links that point to the same resource 20:35:07 This has been removed as a failure and an new advisory technique, Failure due to providing adjacent image and text links that point to the same resource, has been created. 20:36:06 s/Combining adjacent image and text links for the same resource./Failure due to providing adjacent image and text links that point to the same resource 20:36:41 Resolution: Remove the failure and Accept new optional technique, Combining adjacent image and text links for the same resource. 20:39:07 Topic: Placing the interactive elements in an order that follows sequences and relationships within the content 20:39:41 not needed - accepted last week. 20:39:49 Agenda item 4: GL 3.1 Techniques and Issues (Feb 23) 20:39:49 20:42:58 Topic: Using a Unicode right-to-left mark (RLM) or left-to-right mark (LRM) to mix text direction inline 20:43:28 ack Lor 20:48:01 q+ 20:50:52 q- 20:54:15 judy has joined #wai-wcag 20:55:12 Resolution: Accept Using a Unicode right-to-left mark (RLM) or left-to-right mark (LRM) to mix text direction inline. Team B will added the discussed tests. 20:55:22 -Yvette_Hoitink 20:55:57 +Yvette_Hoitink 20:56:01 Topic: Using the dir attribute on an inline element to resolve problems with nested directional runs 20:56:29 -Alex_Li 20:58:02 ack John 20:59:07 ack Katie 21:00:26 David_MacDonald has joined #wai-wcag 21:00:44 Action: Team B to define "nested directional run" And to run these directional related techniques by the I18N Working group. Due March 6, 2006. 21:01:15 Resolution: Accept Using the dir attribute on an inline element to resolve problems with nested directional units. 21:02:54 thanx andi 21:04:10 Topic: s the structure and content of How to Meet Success Criterion 3.1.3 approved? 21:04:18 s/Is/s 21:04:41 q+ to say second part of my comment was relevant 21:04:47 ack John 21:06:59 q+ 21:08:47 q+ to say: "title on span for definitions can be added in later version of tech docs, when AT starts supporting it - techs are not in Rec track to allow this kind of evolution' 21:09:42 ack ben 21:09:42 ack Be 21:09:46 +[IPcaller] 21:09:50 ack Cyn 21:10:41 yes 21:10:46 def tag 21:11:33 David_MacDonald has joined #wai-wcag 21:11:53 dfn yes 21:11:57 zakim, [IP is David_MacDonald 21:11:57 +David_MacDonald; got it 21:11:58 zakim, [IP is David_MacDonald 21:11:59 sorry, Michael, I do not recognize a party named '[IP' 21:12:04 zakim, mute dav 21:12:04 David_MacDonald should now be muted 21:12:15 ack Chris 21:12:15 Christophe, you wanted to say: "title on span for definitions can be added in later version of tech docs, when AT starts supporting it - techs are not in Rec track to allow this 21:12:19 ... kind of evolution' 21:12:20 ack c 21:13:50 Related to this tech. Group is discussing whether or not a title on a span is a sufficient technique for 3.1.3. 21:15:23 ack John 21:15:36 ack Cyn 21:15:59 q+ to say HPR already supports this 21:16:32 Q+ 21:16:37 ack b 21:16:37 Becky, you wanted to say HPR already supports this 21:16:53 ack g 21:18:03 zakim, unmute me 21:18:03 David_MacDonald should no longer be muted 21:21:21 zakim, who's on the phone? 21:21:21 On the phone I see Cynthia_Shelly, Michael_Cooper, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Makoto_Ueki (muted), Roberto_Scano (muted), Gregg_and_Ben, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Christophe_Strobbe, rellero 21:21:24 ... (muted), Katie_Haritos-Shea (muted), ??P12, John_Slatin, Sofia_Celic (muted), Bengt_Farre, Becky_Gibson, Yvette_Hoitink, David_MacDonald 21:22:21 -Cynthia_Shelly 21:22:28 Be Right Back 21:23:19 q? 21:25:02 zakim, mute me 21:25:02 Christophe_Strobbe should now be muted 21:29:32 Resolution: Title on span is an advisory technique for 3.1.3 but will not publish the tech. in the next draft - it will remain as "title only". Will rediscuss after last call. 21:30:11 -Sofia_Celic 21:30:13 -Roberto_Scano 21:30:46 +??P0 21:32:17 ack m 21:32:17 Michael_Cooper, you wanted to say second part of my comment was relevant 21:32:40 zakim, ??P0 is Sofia_Celic 21:32:40 +Sofia_Celic; got it 21:34:50 Regrets: Sorcha_Moore, Tim_Boland, Roberto_Castaldo 21:37:37 judy has joined #wai-wcag 21:38:41 Resolution: Accept the structure and content of How to Meet Success Criterion 3.1.3 given the previous resolution about title on span. 21:39:01 Resolution: Add "or phrases" after words in 3.1.1. It now becomes, A mechanism is available for identifying specific definitions of words or phrases used in an unusual or restricted way, including idioms and jargon. 21:39:20 s/3.1.3/3.1.1 21:39:35 From 2.2 Surveys (both 23 Feb. and 02 Mar.) 21:39:35 21:39:35 Approved to publish with edits 21:39:35 21:39:35 * Failure caused by defaulting to non-conforming version as a result of content negotiation (4.2.1) 21:39:37 * Failure due to a script that causes a blink effect without a mechanism to stop the blinking at 3 seconds or less (2.2.2) 21:39:39 * Failure due to an object, such as Java or Flash, that has blinking content without a mechanism to pause the content that blinks for more than three seconds (2.2.2) 21:39:43 * Failure due to using server-side techniques to automatically redirect pages after a timeout (2.2.1) 21:39:44 * If users submit data when the user is no longer authenticated, the data is saved and the data is reused after the user re-authenticates (2.2.6) 21:39:47 * Making non-essential alerts optional (2.2.5) 21:39:49 * Providing a help link on every delivery unit (2.5.4) 21:39:51 * Providing client-side validation and alert (2.5.1, 2.5.2) 21:39:53 * Providing expected data format and example (2.5.4) 21:39:55 * Providing the ability for the user to review and correct answers before submitting (2.5.3) 21:39:57 * Providing the ability to recover the deleted information (2.5.3) 21:39:59 * Satisfying all WCAG success criteria at levels 1 and 2 that the technology outside the baseline can support (4.2.3) 21:40:02 * Using scripts to control blinking and stop it in three seconds or less (2.2.2) 21:40:04 21:40:07 Approved, no edits required 21:40:08 21:40:10 * Providing keyboard-controllable event handlers (2.1.1) 21:40:12 21:40:14 From 2.4 Survey (Feb 23) 21:40:17 21:40:18 Creating elements when creating new content, Failure due to the title of a delivery unit being the filename of the delivery unit or some other text that is not a title 21:40:21 21:40:22 -??P12 21:40:23 unanimous items from 02 March glossary survey: 21:40:25 21:40:27 delete definition of "link", definition of programmatic reference, definition of structure, Editorial and formatting revisions to glossary 21:41:00 Resolution: Accept all items previous listed by Ben. These are items which are accepted via the surveys with only editoral comments. 21:41:27 Agenda item 5: Techniques for Guideline 2.2 21:41:55 bye. good work! 21:41:57 rscano has left #wai-wcag 21:42:26 Topic: Allowing the content to be paused and restarted from where it was stopped. 21:43:01 q+ 21:43:15 ack lor 21:43:20 ack y 21:45:07 q+ 21:45:35 ack y 21:46:51 q+ 21:49:03 ack y 21:49:08 ack jo 21:49:58 zakim, mute me 21:49:58 David_MacDonald should now be muted 21:50:47 Action: Gregg, Yvette, and Andi to explore the issue of on-the-fly user agents and responsibility of authors. Due March 13, 2006. 21:52:07 Accept Allowing the content to be paused and restarted from where it was stopped. 21:52:27 Topic: : Allowing users to complete an activity without any time limit. 21:56:02 zakim, unmute me 21:56:02 Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted 21:57:31 Resolution: Accept Allowing users to complete an activity without any time limit as ammended. 21:57:49 Agenda Item 6: Techniques from Team C for 02 March 2006 21:58:03 zakim, unmute me 21:58:03 David_MacDonald should no longer be muted 21:58:06 scribe: ben 21:58:52 Topic: Failure due to having a session timeout without a mechanism for saving user's input and re-establishing it upon re-authentication 22:00:09 q+ to say "failure due to having a session time-out that causes loss of user data" 22:01:28 zakim, unmute me 22:01:28 Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted 22:01:52 q? 22:01:59 ack y 22:01:59 Yvette, you wanted to say "failure due to having a session time-out that causes loss of user data" 22:02:00 Christophe has left #wai-wcag 22:02:02 -Christophe_Strobbe 22:05:50 can you hrae me 22:07:39 resolution: Accept this technique with edits 22:07:56 Topic: Failure due to including blinking content that can't be turned off 22:10:28 -rellero 22:12:57 resolution: replace this failure with two tech-specific examples ( element and CSS text-decoration: blink) 22:13:56 Topic: Providing a link at the top of the non-conformant content that points to an alternate version that does meet WCAG 2.0 Level 1 success criteria 22:15:33 zakim, mute me 22:15:33 David_MacDonald should now be muted 22:21:18 q+ 22:21:20 ack j 22:21:58 q- 22:28:09 -David_MacDonald 22:28:10 ack jo 22:28:14 ack katie 22:29:31 http://trace.wisc.edu/wcag_wiki/index.php?title=How_to_Meet_Success_Criterion_4.2.1 22:31:07 resolution: accept this technique with comments 22:31:12 resolution: Split how to meet for this into two situations. (one for using a technology where a link to alternatives is accessible, another for using a technology where it is not possible to create an accessible link) 22:31:26 action: team c to clean up situations described above 22:31:37 Topic: Failure to provide a method for the user to find the alternative 22:31:38 conforming version of a non-conforming page (4.2.1) 22:32:58 +Kerstin_Goldsmith 22:35:49 action: John and Michael to work on cleaning up concerns with, "Failure to provide a method for the user to find the alternative conforming version of a non-conforming page" 22:36:05 resolution: accept this failure with edits, "Failure to provide a method for the user to find the alternative conforming version of a non-conforming page" 22:36:26 -Yvette_Hoitink 22:36:36 Topic: Failure due to using a non-text mark alone in order to convey information 22:37:17 zakim, unmute me 22:37:17 Makoto_Ueki should no longer be muted 22:37:54 +??P6 22:38:30 zakim, ??P6 is Judy 22:38:30 +Judy; got it 22:40:04 resolution: accept with edits 22:40:59 action: Makoto and John to discuss comments regarding color 22:41:12 Topic: Supplementing link text with hidden text 22:42:05 +Yvette_Hoitink 22:47:26 no resolution - need to discuss a proposal to remove this given concerns regarding search engine optimization 22:49:03 Topic: Glossary Issues for 02 March 22:50:04 EO is working on proposals related to glossary proposals (to be sumbitted next week) 22:51:10 Topic: analog, time-dependent input 22:51:17 -Yvette_Hoitink 22:54:16 resolution: accept revisions to analog, time-dependent input as proposed by EO (Gregg's comments) with John's edits ("input whose result...") 22:54:25 Topic: authored unit 22:57:51 closest word to entity is thing 23:00:35 resolution: accept proposed revisions to "authored unit," as "set of material created as a single body by an author" 23:01:00 Topic: definition of "baseline" 23:03:09 resolution: accept proposed definition of "baseline" without notes other than, "NOTE: For more information on Baselines and their use see http://www.w3.org/place-where-we-put-baseline-discussion-doc." 23:03:24 Topic: definition of "captions" 23:04:13 judy has joined #wai-wcag 23:06:38 ackkat 23:06:41 ack kat 23:06:51 ack ker 23:07:53 -Kerstin_Goldsmith 23:08:42 resolution: accept proposed definition of "caption" with editorial revisions from John and change "dialog" to "speech" -- "text presented and synchronized with multimedia to provide not only the speech, but also sound effects and sometimes speaker identification" 23:08:58 Topic: definition of "content" 23:10:49 I have to go catch that last bus. Although I was a lone "other" I thought my issues with the flash/luminosity ones were very important, so I hope they get enough discussion... 23:10:56 -Michael_Cooper 23:11:24 +Kerstin_Goldsmith 23:11:47 q+ 23:14:07 ack Judy 23:14:35 EO had questions about what would be excluded by proposed definition 23:14:51 -Becky_Gibson 23:15:44 "everything that the user agent uses to render presentation units" 23:17:17 action: Judy to take the above definition to EO for additional feedback 23:17:50 resolution: accept "everything that the user agent uses to render presentation units" as definition with proposed note until we have something better 23:18:12 Topic: general flash threshold 23:22:42 resolution: accept proposed definition of "general flash threshold" and expand "FPA" in parentheses in note. 23:22:53 Topic: definition of "idiom" 23:24:01 q+ to comment on idiom 23:26:02 ack judy 23:26:02 judy, you wanted to comment on idiom 23:26:07 ack kerstin 23:28:55 RRSAgent, do not start a new log 23:30:18 resolution: update definition of "idiom" to read, "a phrase whose meaning is not clear from the meaning of the individual words" and revise note with example to use "In US English, "kick the bucket" means "die." 23:31:54 -Kerstin_Goldsmith 23:37:02 -Judy 23:38:10 Topic: definition of, "luminosity contrast ratio" 23:40:15 resolution: accept proposed revisions to luminosity contrast ratio 23:40:25 action: Gregg to review EOWG comments and look at how to make it more human-readable 23:40:48 Topic: definition of "perceivable structures" 23:47:49 ack k 23:49:07 -Bengt_Farre 23:49:15 bengt has left #wai-wcag 23:50:45 ack j 23:51:24 action: team b to look at alternatives for definition of "perceivable structures" 23:51:46 Topic: definition of "programmatically determined" 23:53:12 ack jo 23:53:59 no resolution 23:54:36 Topic: definition of, "red flash threshold" 23:54:55 resolution: accept proposed definition (same resolution as general flash threshold) 23:55:43 resolution: accept definition of "technology" with editorial comments 23:56:23 Topic: replace "delivery unit" with "Web page or other primary resource"? 00:01:50 resolution: accept proposal to make examples specific "example of Web page," "example of primary resource" 00:02:18 resolution, accept proposal to Replace "delivery unit" with "authored unit" in 3.2.2 00:02:41 Topic: Failure due to using markup that results in different DOMs being generated in different user agents 00:05:22 resolution: back to team a 00:05:26 topic: proposed revisions to 1.1.6 00:05:41 -Andi_Snow_Weaver 00:05:42 -Sofia_Celic 00:05:42 -Loretta_Guarino_Reid 00:05:43 -Gregg_and_Ben 00:05:43 -John_Slatin 00:05:44 -Katie_Haritos-Shea 00:05:56 resolution: accept proposed revisions without the word content, "1.1.6 For prerecorded multimedia, a combined document containing captions intermixed with the audio description transcripts is available." 00:06:43 Zakim, bye 00:06:43 leaving. As of this point the attendees were Michael_Cooper, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Makoto_Ueki, Roberto_Scano, Gregg_and_Ben, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Yvette_Hoitink, Christophe_Strobbe, 00:06:43 Zakim has left #wai-wcag 00:06:46 ... Katie_Haritos-Shea, rellero, Cynthia_Shelly, Becky_Gibson, John_Slatin, Sofia_Celic, Alex_Li, Bengt_Farre, [IPcaller], David_MacDonald, Kerstin_Goldsmith, Judy 00:07:02 Present: Cynthia_Shelly, Michael_Cooper, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Makoto_Ueki, Roberto_Scano, Gregg_Vanderheiden, Ben_Caldwell, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Christophe_Strobbe, Roberto_Ellero, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Judy_Brewer, John_Slatin, Sofia_Celic, Bengt_Farre, Becky_Gibson, Yvette_Hoitink, David_MacDonald, Alex_Li, Kerstin_Goldsmith 00:07:06 RRSAgent, bye 00:07:06 I see 9 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/02-wai-wcag-actions.rdf : 00:07:06 ACTION: Cynthia to explore techs and examples of occluding overlays. Due March 30, 2006 [1] 00:07:06 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/02-wai-wcag-irc#T20-18-11 00:07:06 ACTION: Team B to define "nested directional run" And to run these directional related techniques by the I18N Working group. Due March 6, 2006. [2] 00:07:06 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/02-wai-wcag-irc#T21-00-44 00:07:06 ACTION: Gregg, Yvette, and Andi to explore the issue of on-the-fly user agents and responsibility of authors. Due March 13, 2006. [3] 00:07:06 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/02-wai-wcag-irc#T21-50-47 00:07:06 ACTION: team c to clean up situations described above [4] 00:07:06 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/02-wai-wcag-irc#T22-31-26 00:07:06 ACTION: John and Michael to work on cleaning up concerns with, "Failure to provide a method for the user to find the alternative conforming version of a non-conforming page" [5] 00:07:06 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/02-wai-wcag-irc#T22-35-49 00:07:06 ACTION: Makoto and John to discuss comments regarding color [6] 00:07:06 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/02-wai-wcag-irc#T22-40-59 00:07:06 ACTION: Judy to take the above definition to EO for additional feedback [7] 00:07:06 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/02-wai-wcag-irc#T23-17-17 00:07:06 ACTION: Gregg to review EOWG comments and look at how to make it more human-readable [8] 00:07:06 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/02-wai-wcag-irc#T23-40-25 00:07:06 ACTION: team b to look at alternatives for definition of "perceivable structures" [9] 00:07:06 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/02-wai-wcag-irc#T23-51-24