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Disposition of comments for the Accessibility Guidelines Working Group

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1-20 21-40 41-45

In the table below, red is in the WG decision column indicates that the Working Group didn't agree with the comment, green indicates that a it agreed with it, and yellow reflects an in-between situation.

In the "Commentor reply" column, red indicates the commenter objected to the WG resolution, green indicates approval, and yellow means the commenter didn't respond to the request for feedback.

CommentorCommentWorking Group decisionCommentor reply
LC-2444 Detlev Fischer <fischer@dias.de> (archived comment)
The example of technique G191 makes it clear that the link or mechanism to load a non-blinking version of the page should be at the top of the page:

"A link at the very top of the page reloads the page with the blinking text replaced with text that is styled to be highly visible but does not blink"

Proposed Change:
Include a check that the mechanism is located at the top of the page - placed elsewhere, it is not helpful. Instead of
"1. Check that there is a mechanism to reload page to turn off blinking."

change to:

"1. Check that there is a mechanism at the top of the page to reload page to turn off blinking.
This technique does not require that the control be at the top of the page. This is simply good practice so we included it in both of the techniques to encourage it. However since it is not required for the technique, it is in neither the description nor the test. tocheck
LC-2445 Detlev Fischer <fischer@dias.de> (archived comment)
The test for the correct use of longdesc should be conditional on its application in the first place. The first check

1. Check that the img element has a longdesc
attribute.
is not meaningful for any img and redundant for those that actually carry the longdesc attribute.

(The descripton may also mention the drawback that alternative text via longdesc is not usually accessible to sighted users and might therefore be supplied redundantly.)



Proposed Change:
So the test in my opinion should start with a conditional:

"If longdesc is used on images to supply alternative text:"

...then test #2 and #3 (as #1 and #2)
Techniques are all optional by nature. You do not have to use this technique. If you are not using this technique to meet SC 1.1.1 for an image, it doesn't matter that the image will fail the test procedure, that is, that it will not have a longdesc attribute.

If you want to use something other than longdesc, then you wouldn't use this technique and you wouldn't encounter the test.

[DONE] Add a section "testing techniques" in the introduction to techniques, starter text "Test procedures for techniques apply only to verify proper application of that technique. They do not test the success criteria. Tests of the success criteria require first determining which techniques are applicable, and then following the test procedures for those techniques." Cycle through WG ACTION-125`
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LC-2446 Detlev Fischer <fischer@dias.de> (archived comment)
To test if noembed fulfills its purpose, a test for the equivalence of content inside the noembed element is necessary

Proposed Change:
Add:

3. Check if the content of the noembed element is an adequate alternative for the non-text content it replaces.

(#1 or #2) and #3 are true.
“Adequate” is not a testable term. We have made a decision not to use any subjective terms like “adequate” in any of our tests because it makes them no longer objective. It is unfortunate but the tests must be objective to have the inter-rater reliability needed to be considered testable. tocheck
LC-2447 Detlev Fischer <fischer@dias.de> (archived comment)
The test prescribes in
1. Check that all th elements have a scope attribute.

The scope attribute, however, is only necessary for complex data tables, the test gives the impression that it must be present in every th element.

Proposed Change:
Qualify the test by expressing ast the outset that it applies to complex data tables only, i.e.:

"For complex data tables where the relationship between heading cells and content cells must be explicitly specified because the table uses hierarchical headings or headings apply to multiple columms or rows (colgroup, rowgroup):"
There seems to be common misconception that techniques are required. Techniques are simply ways of meeting particular success criteria.

You do not have to use this technique. But if you use this technique (which is “using the scope attribute…”) then you would in fact have to use the scope attribute or else you would not be using the technique.

Change description of H63 change to begin "The objective of this technique is to associate header cells with data cells <ins>in complex tables</ins> using the scope attribute."
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LC-2450 Detlev Fischer <fischer@dias.de> (archived comment)
Both the first sufficient technique quoted in "How to meet SC 1.4.4" as well as the fourth, G179, allow for designs where containers may be defined in px.

Proposed Change:
Unclear. The four options / sets of techniques offered to meet 1.4.4 seem somewhat contradictory.

Possibly qualify:

"When liquid layout techniques are chosen to satisfy SC 1.4.4:"
In the instructions it says, just above the list of sufficient techniques, that you must do one of the numbered items. You do not need to do all three (or more). Therefore, techniques often will contradict each other. They are different options or different ways of doing something. You may choose among them. You do not have to do all of them. In fact you don't have to do any of them actually. These are just suggestions, ways of meeting it that the working group has declared to be sufficient. You may come up with a different method altogether, and, if it meets the success criteria, it meets the success criteria. Someday you may be called on to prove it by someone. Therefore it is convenient to use ones where you have evidence that the working group said that it would be sufficient. But it is not required. No techniques are required. tocheck
LC-2451 Detlev Fischer <fischer@dias.de> (archived comment)
The lack of styling through CSS does not create in itself a real problem if semantic HTML markup is adhered to. Testing whether CSS has been applied appropriately seems difficult to do for all possible purposes.

When saying "Check whether CSS properties were used to control the visual presentation of text" the problem remains that this does not in itself show that CSS has been used correctly without further tests.

Proposed Change:
Test for use of deprecated elements (e.g., font, center, strike, i, b, u) instead.
You do not need to use this technique if you don't want to. You can do other things. Use of any technique is optional. They are just ways of doing it if you want to use them.

The motivation is not to about CSS vs using HTML elements to style the text. The motivation is to use CSS to control text styling more closely, rather than using images of text to control text styling.

If you choose to use the technique that says “Using CSS to…” Then you have to use CSS because that's what the technique is. So, if you use the “using CSS” technique then you must use CSS. But there is no requirement that you use this technique.

Regarding use of deprecated elements: Using something that is deprecated is not invalid. It also is not an accessibility issue. It may not be good practice but would not cause one to fail this technique.

If incorrect use of CSS results in invalid visual design, it will affect all users, not just those with disabilities.
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LC-2466 Detlev Fischer <fischer@dias.de> (archived comment)
In addition to the comment regarding the test case spec. in G178, it should be noted that for most web pages using several columns, the requirement for a 200% increase of text size will be impossible to meet (the same goes for browser based text-only resizing) and is therefore likely to be ignored. Such ignorance is helped by the interpretation of alternative options to meet Success Criterion 1.4.4 (Resize text), since option 1 (G142) suggests that supporting zoom resizing (which most modern browsers offer out of the box without any effort by the designer) is already sufficient. This appears as a disincentive regarding the provision of text-only resizing and the additional effort of creating fluid layouts that resize gracefully.

Proposed Change:
The (additional) requirement to allow a more modest text-only resizing (say, 150%) might raise the bar in a meaningful way and not de-incentivise designers in the same way as the current all-to-easy way of meeting success criterion 1.4.4 *without any effort*.
If the two columns are equal in width then it is impossible to not meet this criteria with ZOOM. Simply increase the zoom to 200% and the column will fit very nicely on-screen and allow the user to read all of the text in the column without horizontal scrolling. They can then move over to the other column and read the other, without horizontal scrolling as well.

Note that the horizontal scrolling requirement is only at level AAA. Therefore the zoom would satisfy level AA unless of course the browser does not support this. Therefore this technique would work at level AA but not at level AAA for a full width page, but it would work at AAA for a page with 2 equal width columns.

You will note that G178 is listed as sufficient for 1.4.4 which is at level AA but it is not listed as sufficient for 1.4.8 which is at level AAA.
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LC-2436 Devarshi Pant <devarshipant@gmail.com> (archived comment)
To decipher a heading, a screen reader user will have to remember the rule: "two blank lines preceding the heading" and "a blank line following a heading". This rule can easily get complex when other formatting options are introduced in the document structure to convey the structural meaning to different user groups. What happens when a hyperlink, underlined text, or a caption is to be expressed using plain text? The list goes on when we factor in other ways documents are currently presented. It only makes sense to have its plain text counterpart elicit same structural meaning using more intuitive encodings than line breaks and non printing characters.

Proposed Change:
Use mnemonics instead. Remove references to non printed characters and line breaks. There are richer ways to convey this information to all user groups.
For example, to express a heading in a plain text document, using (H)This is a Heading(H) will be easier to follow than the blank line format. Note that the enclosed character is a mnemonic for heading.
Using the same rule, a underline can represented as (U)This is an underline(U).
A hyperlink will be (HY)This is a hyperlink(HY).
This way even users groups will be able to understand a plain text document by visually parsing it.
The purpose of this technique is to talk about plain text. If you add markup as you suggest and is no longer a plain text document (unless you consider an HTML document to be plain text).

This does create constraints on how you write a plain text document. But it does give you a way of creating plain text documents can be deciphered. And that is the purpose of the technique. To allow you to create a plain text document that has no markup but yet can be deciphered by a screen reader designed to work with plain text documents that constrain themselves to these rules.
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LC-2493 Devarshi Pant <devarshipant@gmail.com> (archived comment)
If I understand this correctly, this is a technique to assist screen reader users. If that is true, there is no mention of the supporting assistive technology applicable to this technique. We should also state, if possible, where and how to obtain these scripts.

There is a good chance that a user may question the applicability of screen magnification software to decipher headings in plain text documents using formatting conventions.

On a sidebar, does this technique satisfy SC 1.3.1 on the basis that only a screen reader user can understand the underlying structure of the document?

Proposed Change: In the ‘Applicability’ section, add a sentence something like – “Only applicable to screen readers.”
Proposed response:

All of WCAG, not just the plain text techniques, applies to content served from the web. See the definition of Web page in the WCAG glossary <http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-WCAG20-20081211/#webpagedef>.

We feel it would be misleading to add this clause to the Plain Text technique titles and not to all the other technique titles, and that adding it everywhere would make it harder to understand techniques from their titles.
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LC-2457 Sailesh Panchang <spanchang02@yahoo.com> (archived comment)
I believe H93 and H94 are out of place. They are not HTML techniques but are evaluation techniques and must be listed under Failure techniques.
All HTML techniques explain how an element / attribute should be used to meet an SC and are positive like: Do this ... to accomplish this.
But H93 and H94 are: Do not do this else you will fail ...
We agree that it would have been possible to cast H93 and H94 as failures instead of as techniques. However, we disagree with your assessment that they are not HTML techniques, and we believe it is clear how to apply them to satisfy SC 4.1.1. We don't think the benefit of recasting them as failures justifies the work involved or the confusion that would result from moving this information from techniques to failures. tocheck
LC-2471 Sailesh Panchang <spanchang02@yahoo.com> (archived comment)
There are serious deficiencies noted under user agent notes for H89 and it concludes with:
"Note: Current user agents and assistive technologies do not always provide the information contained in the title attribute to users. Avoid using this technique in isolation until the title attribute has wide-spread support." ... under Description.

The title attribute is as old as the hills and browsers and AT are not going to change their behavior in a hurry any time soon.
Context sensitive help text cannot be given via the title attribute. (In fact I tell clients this does not work and disuade its usage).
If it is not AT supported how is it a sufficient technique?
I suggest this technique be moved to advisory.
H89 is only listed as an advisory technique for SC 3.3.5. Did we miss someplace where it is erroneously listed as a sufficient technique? tocheck
LC-2491 Detlev Fischer <fischer@dias.de> (archived comment)
The behaviour described in F9 - changing context such as opening new windows or submitting the form - also seems to apply to the requirements of SC 3.2.2 "On Input".
The behaviour described: "removing focus from a form element, such as by moving to the next element, causes a change of context" is arguably even more disrupting than the more specific Failure F36: "Failure of Success Criterion 3.2.2 due to automatically submitting a form and presenting new content without prior warning when the last field in the form is given a value" - in the latter, the form might at least have been completed.

Proposed Change:
Extend applicability of F9 to SC 3.2.2 On Input AND SC 3.2.5 Change of Request
As written, this failure does not apply to 3.2.2, since changing focus is not an input action. tocheck
LC-2492 Detlev Fischer <fischer@dias.de> (archived comment)
Opening a new window as a result of user text input is clearly an unexpected change of context and would seem to violate not just SC 3.2.5 (Change on Request) but also the A-level SC 3.2.2 (On input)

Proposed Change:
Either:
* Preferably, make F60 applicable also to SC 3.2.2 (On Input)
* Specify that the change in response to text input should be expected / explained before it occurs, include that in the test procedure
* Differentiate between opening a new window proper (i.e., a browser window) and opening a pseudo-window (e.g. a lightbox) which would not necessarily constitute a (disorienting) change of context
We do not feel that F60, as written, should be a failure of SC 3.2.2, but it is causing us to discuss issues related to text fields and SC 3.2.2. We will be discussing potential modification to F37 or adding new failures for SC 3.2.2. We have added an action (ACTION 150, http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/actions/150) for you to help us draft this new failure or modify F37. We are not adding this failure for this update, since it will need to go to public review and the review period for this update has ended. tocheck
LC-2434 Aurelien Levy <aurelien.levy@free.fr> (archived comment)
The FLASH17 technique can't be associated with this success criteria since the criteria says : "If keyboard focus can be moved to a component of the page using a keyboard interface,..."

And the FLASH 17 technique description says : "... it is not possible to move keyboard focus between the Flash content and HTML content without using a mouse ..."

So, it's not possible to move keyboard focus from HTML content to Flash content using a keyboard interface and SC 2.1.2 isn't applicable

Proposed Change:
remove FLASH 17 of sufficient technique list or change it for additional techniques
This technique is describes how the author can implement the missing keyboard support in the Flash content itself. We have modified the description to make it clearer that this is the purpose of the technique.

In the first paragraph of the description, change "it is not possible to move keyboard focus..." to "many browsers do not support moving keyboard focus..."

At the end of the first paragraph of the description, add "This technique is designed to let the Flash author address this issue and provide support for moving focus between the Flash content and the HTML content via the keyboard."
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LC-2438 Detlev Fischer <fischer@dias.de> (archived comment)
I have noticed a discrepancy between Technique "G68: Providing a descriptive label that describes the purpose of live audio-only and live video-only content" and the test included at its end.

While the technique proposes the use of descriptive labels which are exposed to sighted users, the test at the end checks for text alternatives for non-text content that would only be exposed if the not-text content cannot be displayed.

I think the currently included test does not apply to the technique as described.

Proposed Change:
New Test
Check whether descriptive label matches / correctly describes live audio-visual content
We consider that ALT text is a sufficient label for non-text content per this definition of Label.

The purpose of this technique is to be sure that people who cannot see know what the non-text content on the screen is. If the person can see, presumably they can identify the nontext content by looking at it. The technique as written would ensure that people who cannot see are able to determine what the nontext content is via its alternative text. The only reason that the text is removed in the example is simply to see if the alternative text really did stand in for the function.

We think the use of the word "label" in this technique may be confusing, since label is often used to mean visible text that identifies a control. We are revising the technique to clarify this issue.

Change the title of G68 to be "Providing a short text alternative which describes the purpose of live audio-only and live video-only content"

In G68, change the following beginning of the description to read: "This technique provides a short text alternative for Live audio-only and live video-only content. This text may be used in combination with a full alternative for time-based media (for audio or video), or in combination with audio description (for video).

Revise test procedure to read:
1. Remove, hide, or mask the non-text content.
2. Display the short text alternative(s).
3. Check that the purpose of the non-text content is clear - even if content is lost.

For consistency of terminology, change the title, examples, and test procedure of G100 per http://trace.wisc.edu/wcag_wiki/index.php?title=G100:_Providing_a_short_text_alternative_which_is_the_accepted_name_or_descriptive_name_of_the_non-text_content
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LC-2439 Detlev Fischer <fischer@dias.de> (archived comment)
The first of the conditions may not apply (for example if the for is on one page). The second condition ("Determine if a summary of all data input by the user is provided before the transaction is committed and a method is provided to correct errors if necessary.") must be met in any case to ensure that input is checked and may be corrected. Therefore "Expected Results: Either #1 or #2 is true" seems inadequate.

Proposed Change:
1. If user data are collected in multiple steps, the user is allowed to return to previous steps to review and change data.

2. Determine if a summary of all data input by the user is provided before the transaction is committed and a method is provided to correct errors if necessary.

Expected Results

Checks #1 and #2 are true.

To remove the conditional (and possibly confusing) 'if'-clause at the beginning of check #1, the single test might need to be turned into two separate tests.
Depending on how much data is collected, it may not be possible to summarize it all on one page. For example if the person was taking an essay exam.

Therefore either one of these two approaches may be the most logical.

insert new step 1 to test procedure: "Check that user is prompted to review the data and confirm"

reword existing steps:

"2. If user data are collected in multiple steps, the user is allowed to return to previous steps to review and change data.

3. Determine if a summary of all data input by the user is provided before the transaction is committed and a method is provided to correct errors if necessary."

change expected results to be "Either #2 or #3 are true"
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LC-2441 Detlev Fischer <fischer@dias.de> (archived comment)
As it stands, the test in technique G166 only checks whether a link to the audio alternative is provided. It does not check the equivalence of the audio alternative. Testing just for the link is not sufficient

Proposed Change:
Add a second checkpoint #2 for checking whether the audio alternative is adequate.
Both Check #1 and Check #2 must be true.
We do not include any quality checks in our techniques since they are subjective. “Adequate” is not a testable term. Unfortunately, we do not feel it is possible to include subjective terms in our testing procedures. We have clarified the test procedure to indicate that it should be descriptive.

ACTION: Change step 1 of test procedure to read "Check that there is link to an audio alternative which describes the contents of the video immediately before or after the video-only content."
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LC-2442 Detlev Fischer <fischer@dias.de> (archived comment)
The text of this technique describes in both examples provided that the styleswitcher should be at the "top of the page". This requirement, however, is neither included in the description nore is it checked in the test section of the technique.

Proposed Change:
Add a further (fourth) requirement for the technique to be used successfully, preferably in second place:

"2. The link or control on the original page must be placed at the top of the page"
This technique does not require that the style switcher be at the top of the page. This is just good practice and therefore we included it in the examples to encourage it. It is therefore not in the technique nor in the test criteria. However, we have added a note about this in the description.

ACTION: Add to end of first paragraph of description: "Placing the link or control prominently on the page will assist users in accessing the conforming content readily."
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LC-2443 Detlev Fischer <fischer@dias.de> (archived comment)
Following the provision of Technique G4: "If keyboard shortcuts are used, they are documented" the test in G187 should include a check whether the function to turn off blinking content is documented (e.g., press the "Escape" key to turn off blinking)

Proposed Change:
Add a fourth checkpoint and extend the final statement:

4. Check if the browser's stop animation command (usually the Escape key) is described in the immediate context of the blinking content.

Check #3 and #4 are true.
We only state that they should be documented, not that they should be in the immediate context of the blinking content. For example this might be documented on the opening page of a long document full of things that blink. In fact the switch to turn off the blinking may occur at the front so that it turns off all of the blinking on all of the pages at once.

Also, all the techniques are optional. If G4 and G187 are both required then there's no need to put the requirement G4 in G178. If they are not both required then G4 stands as a separate technique. We don't embed techniques and other techniques if they are not needed.

Add to end of first para of G187 description: "This feature can be provided either through interactive controls that conform to WCAG or through keyboard shortcuts. If keyboard shortcuts are used, they are documented."
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LC-2448 Detlev Fischer <fischer@dias.de> (archived comment)
The test mandates the use of fieldset for any logically related group of input elements while the description of the same technique allows:

"When a small group of related radio buttons includes clear instructions and distinct selections it may not be necessary to use fieldsets and legends"

Proposed Change:
Have a conditional at the beginning of the tests:

"For any group of logically related input elements that is not small easily identified in its labels or titles"

..or similar
Thank you for catching this problem with the test procedure. We have revised the technique to clarify when fieldset should be used.

Incorporate changes from http://trace.wisc.edu/wcag_wiki/index.php?title=H71:_Providing_a_description_for_groups_of_form_controls_using_fieldset_and_legend_elements
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