15:56:27 RRSAgent has joined #rif 15:56:28 logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-rif-irc 15:56:39 zakim, this is rif 15:56:39 ok, FrankMcCabe; that matches SW_RIF()11:00AM 15:57:10 Mala has joined #rif 15:57:17 csma has joined #rif 15:57:22 LeoraMorgenstern has joined #rif 15:57:32 sandro has joined #rif 15:57:48 DonaldC has joined #rif 15:57:50 PhilippeB has joined #rif 15:58:05 +[Fujitsu] 15:58:07 +Mala_Mehrotra 15:58:09 +??P13 15:58:21 zakim, ??P13 is me 15:58:21 +csma; got it 15:58:30 +JacekK 15:58:32 zakim, fujitsu is me 15:58:32 +FrankMcCabe; got it 15:58:34 +Leora_Morgenstern 15:58:34 ugo has joined #rif 15:58:51 pfps has joined #rif 15:58:53 zakim, mute me 15:58:53 Leora_Morgenstern should now be muted 15:59:01 zakim, mute me 15:59:02 holger should now be muted 15:59:05 +[LMU] 15:59:06 +josb 15:59:18 +??P16 15:59:19 msintek has joined #rif 15:59:20 zakim, who is on the call? 15:59:20 On the phone I see Deborah_Nichols (muted), FrankMcCabe, Mala_Mehrotra, csma, holger (muted), Leora_Morgenstern (muted), [LMU], josb, ??P16 15:59:29 +??P26 15:59:30 Darko has joined #rif 15:59:30 +Guizhen_Yang (was josb) 15:59:34 +Donald_Chapin (was ??P26) 15:59:35 zakim, ??p16 is pfps 15:59:35 +pfps; got it 15:59:42 +??P17 15:59:43 SaidTabet has joined #rif 15:59:46 +Philippe_Bonnard (was ??P17) 15:59:47 +Ugo_Corda 15:59:48 zakim, mute me. 15:59:48 Guizhen_Yang should now be muted 15:59:53 +[IPcaller] 16:00:01 zakim, who is on the phone? 16:00:01 StanDevitt has joined #rif 16:00:02 On the phone I see Deborah_Nichols (muted), FrankMcCabe, Mala_Mehrotra, csma, holger (muted), Leora_Morgenstern (muted), PaulaP (muted), Guizhen_Yang (muted), pfps, Donald_Chapin, 16:00:05 #41#40 16:00:11 ... Philippe_Bonnard, Ugo_Corda, [IPcaller] 16:00:12 zakim, mute me 16:00:17 +??P29 16:00:18 zakim, mute me 16:00:26 Philippe_Bonnard should now be muted 16:00:30 Donald_Chapin should now be muted 16:00:40 +[NRCC] 16:00:42 -??P29 16:00:44 +David_Hirtle 16:00:44 zakim, who is on the call? 16:00:54 +Harold_Boley (was [NRCC]) 16:00:56 On the phone I see Deborah_Nichols (muted), FrankMcCabe, Mala_Mehrotra, csma, holger (muted), Leora_Morgenstern (muted), PaulaP (muted), Guizhen_Yang (muted), pfps, Donald_Chapin 16:00:59 ... (muted), Philippe_Bonnard (muted), Ugo_Corda, MarkusK (muted), Harold_Boley, David_Hirtle 16:01:01 Allen has joined #rif 16:01:03 +Michael_Sintek 16:01:07 GiorgosStoilos has joined #rif 16:01:19 +??P32 16:01:21 +??P29 16:01:35 +Sandro 16:01:38 + +1.435.125.aabb 16:01:40 zakim, ??P32 is me 16:01:40 +SaidTabet; got it 16:01:43 +Darko_Anicic (was +1.435.125.aabb) 16:01:48 +Allen_Ginsberg 16:01:49 zakim, mute me 16:01:49 SaidTabet should now be muted 16:01:50 DaveReynolds has joined #rif 16:01:59 igor has joined #rif 16:02:03 +[IBM] 16:02:05 zakim, mute me 16:02:05 Allen_Ginsberg should now be muted 16:02:09 zakim, [ibm] is temporarily me 16:02:09 +ChrisW; got it 16:02:28 +??P39 16:02:35 Zakim, mute me 16:02:35 Darko_Anicic should now be muted 16:02:39 deepalik has joined #rif 16:02:41 zakim, who is talking? 16:02:51 sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: csma (21%) 16:03:03 +[IVML] 16:03:06 +[IPcaller] 16:03:09 + +49.651.8.aacc 16:03:18 johnhall has joined #rif 16:03:18 +Dave_Reynolds (was ??P39) 16:03:18 Zakim, ??P29 is Hassan 16:03:19 +Hassan; got it 16:03:29 PaulV has joined #rif 16:03:51 +Igor_Mozetic 16:03:51 zakim, [IVML] is me 16:03:51 +GiorgosStoilos; got it 16:04:00 zakim, mute me 16:04:00 Igor_Mozetic should now be muted 16:04:04 +??P45 16:04:26 scribe: GiorgosStoilos 16:04:32 Uli has joined #rif 16:04:34 +Deepali_Khushraj 16:04:42 +[IPcaller.a] 16:04:44 +John_Hall (was [IPcaller.a]) 16:04:57 zakim, mute me 16:04:57 John_Hall should now be muted 16:04:58 Jeff_Pan has joined #rif 16:05:00 minutes of last telecon, axxepted 16:05:02 +1 16:05:06 +1 16:05:08 +1 16:05:09 +1 16:05:22 Resolved: accept minutes from 14Feb06 16:06:11 +??P53 16:06:22 zakim, ??P53 is me 16:06:22 +Jeff_Pan; got it 16:06:22 http://www.w3.org/1998/12/bridge/Zakim.html 16:06:42 zakim, who is on the call? 16:06:42 On the phone I see Deborah_Nichols (muted), FrankMcCabe, Mala_Mehrotra, csma, holger (muted), Leora_Morgenstern (muted), PaulaP (muted), Guizhen_Yang (muted), pfps, Donald_Chapin 16:06:45 ... (muted), Philippe_Bonnard (muted), Ugo_Corda, MarkusK (muted), Harold_Boley, DavidHirtle (muted), msintek (muted), SaidTabet (muted), Hassan (muted), Sandro, Darko_Anicic 16:06:50 ... (muted), Allen_Ginsberg (muted), ChrisW, Dave_Reynolds (muted), GiorgosStoilos, [IPcaller], +49.651.8.aacc, Igor_Mozetic (muted), ??P45, Deepali_Khushraj (muted), John_Hall 16:06:52 ... (muted), Jeff_Pan 16:06:59 +Gary_Hallmark 16:07:06 GaryHallmark has joined #rif 16:07:35 http://www.w3.org/1998/12/bridge/Zakim.html 16:07:54 +Ed_Barkmeyer 16:08:29 41# 16:08:41 edbark has joined #rif 16:08:48 zakim, aacc is Stan 16:08:48 +Stan; got it 16:09:06 am I identified? Uli? 16:09:18 zakim, Stan is StanDevitt 16:09:18 +StanDevitt; got it 16:09:27 Zakim, ??P45 is Uli 16:09:27 +Uli; got it 16:09:37 ack aacc 16:09:41 zakim, DonaldC is Donald_Chapin 16:09:41 +Donald_Chapin; got it 16:10:22 zakim, [IPcaller] is PaulV 16:10:22 +PaulV; got it 16:10:29 zakim, who is on the phone? 16:10:29 On the phone I see Deborah_Nichols (muted), FrankMcCabe, Mala_Mehrotra, csma, holger (muted), Leora_Morgenstern (muted), PaulaP (muted), Guizhen_Yang (muted), pfps, Donald_Chapin.a 16:10:33 ... (muted), Philippe_Bonnard (muted), Ugo_Corda, MarkusK (muted), Harold_Boley, DavidHirtle (muted), msintek (muted), SaidTabet (muted), Hassan (muted), Sandro, Darko_Anicic 16:10:38 ... (muted), Allen_Ginsberg (muted), ChrisW, Dave_Reynolds (muted), GiorgosStoilos, PaulV, StanDevitt, Igor_Mozetic (muted), Uli, Deepali_Khushraj (muted), John_Hall (muted), 16:10:41 ... Jeff_Pan, Gary_Hallmark, Ed_Barkmeyer (muted) 16:11:23 topic: Liaison 16:11:24 (Attendance Verified) 16:11:44 zakim, mute me 16:11:44 Donald_Chapin.a was already muted, DonaldC 16:12:02 zakim, unmute me 16:12:02 Donald_Chapin.a should no longer be muted 16:12:03 Paul, nothing new 16:12:14 Donald, nothing new on liaison 16:13:00 zakim, mute me 16:13:00 Donald_Chapin.a should now be muted 16:13:01 topic: Use Cases & Requirements 16:13:06 EvanWallace has joined #rif 16:13:09 sandro has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Feb/0182 16:13:12 zakim, unmute me 16:13:12 Allen_Ginsberg should no longer be muted 16:13:14 DavidHirtle has joined #rif 16:13:24 [DONE] ACTION: Allen: to compile a list of design goal questions for listing in a section of the UC&R draft. 16:13:41 action: allen: to compile a list of design goal questions for listing in a section of the UC&R draft {DONE} 16:13:55 +Ora_Lassila 16:14:12 +Evan_Wallace 16:14:16 q? 16:14:24 [DONE] ACTION: Dieter, Jos and Harold: To review the Requirements and comment them 16:14:31 q- aacc 16:14:36 [CONTINUED] ACTION: Axel, Dieter, Jos : to review the Requirements (http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/UCR/Requirements) and comment them. 16:14:42 q- +49.651.8.aacc 16:14:45 q- ??P45 16:14:49 q- [IPcaller] 16:14:58 ora has joined #rif 16:15:02 [DONE] ACTION: Harold : to review the Requirements (http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/UCR/Requirements) and comment them. 16:15:34 Can this action be continued? 16:15:45 zakim, unmute me 16:15:45 Leora_Morgenstern should no longer be muted 16:15:48 q+ 16:16:38 Jeff, nothing done cause I can find the section 16:17:50 +1 to removing the action 16:18:08 [DROPPED] ACTION: Leora and Jeff: to review the detailed scenario 16:18:17 zakim, mute me 16:18:17 Leora_Morgenstern should now be muted 16:18:46 [CONTINUED] ACTION: Chris Welty will come up with another example narrative for a RichKR use case 16:19:02 [CONTINUED] ACTION: csma will incite data access discussion on mailing list. 16:19:28 [DROPPED] ACTION: Frank will do the scenarios for information integration with Ed Barkmeyer assisting 16:19:32 +1 16:20:20 [DONE] ACTION: Paul Vincent will do the detailed scenario for "Interoperability between rule engines" 16:22:04 Fair enough! 16:22:12 +1 with Christian: the suggestions are very helpful! 16:22:13 csma, the discussion in the mailing list worths it despite the heavy load mentioned by Jim 16:22:32 RRSAgent, pointer? 16:22:32 See http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-rif-irc#T16-22-32 16:22:52 csma, the straw poll has been extended till Thursday night 16:23:38 RRSAgent, make minutes 16:23:38 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-rif-minutes.html sandro 16:23:50 rrsagent, what are the actions? 16:23:50 I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-rif-actions.rdf : 16:23:50 ACTION: allen: to compile a list of design goal questions for listing in a section of the UC&R draft {DONE} [1] 16:23:50 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-rif-irc#T16-13-41 16:23:52 zakim, unmute me 16:23:52 Leora_Morgenstern should no longer be muted 16:23:55 q+ 16:24:07 allen, should we revise the document on this point? 16:24:16 s/on/at 16:24:37 (yes please, drafting changes soon) 16:24:54 MichaelKifer has joined #rif 16:25:07 leora, should I edit my part on the Decision Support UC 16:25:12 allen, yes 16:25:38 q+ 16:26:06 +Michael_Kifer 16:26:29 q- 16:26:44 ack leora 16:27:01 csma, we should edit the document before the F2F 16:27:24 rrsagent, drop action 1 16:28:03 csma, can we have a reviesed version before the F2F? 16:28:47 zakim, mute me 16:28:48 Leora_Morgenstern should now be muted 16:28:52 Is it possible to have a "frozen" copy referenced by the people still reviewing and separately work on a revision for the F2F? 16:29:01 q+ 16:29:04 David, some sections are ok, but it depends on the volunteers 16:29:04 +1 to Stan 16:29:33 David, can spend some time to revise the document 16:31:05 http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/ucr/draft-20060215#Information_Integration 16:31:12 ack sandro 16:32:19 sandro, allen & david can edit the docuemnt in the wiki 16:33:15 Can you generate a "diff" version? 16:33:35 Sandro: the straw poll & review is on "frozen" documents 16:33:50 yes, Stan, using the wiki pages 16:33:52 zakim, unmute me 16:33:52 Leora_Morgenstern should no longer be muted 16:34:32 there is a lot of noise 16:34:38 zakim, mute Leora_Morgenstern 16:34:38 Leora_Morgenstern should now be muted 16:34:54 \me Chris, it's not me making the noise ;) 16:35:10 what was the last action on frank? 16:35:23 *No, it started when Frank McCabe was unmuted, and it still there, now that I'm muted. 16:35:38 StanDevitt, when I put up the Friday draft, I'll do a nice HTML-diff, which easier to use than the wiki diff. (in the style I used on the charter, like: http://www.w3.org/2005/07/rules/charter2_diff_146_154.html ) 16:35:55 Thanks. 16:39:10 DavidHirtle has joined #rif 16:40:22 igor has joined #rif 16:40:54 tracker, for people to look at: 16:40:57 http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/track/ 16:41:45 see example for another group: http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/track/ 16:42:23 q+ 16:42:34 ack edb 16:42:35 q? 16:43:10 ACTION: Ed to synthesize comments on Coverage by Friday and propose ways to answer the comments 16:44:09 zakim, unmute me 16:44:09 Leora_Morgenstern should no longer be muted 16:44:35 zakim, mute me 16:44:35 Leora_Morgenstern should now be muted 16:45:02 zakim, mute me 16:45:02 Ed_Barkmeyer was already muted, edbark 16:45:03 zakim, unmute me 16:45:03 SaidTabet should no longer be muted 16:45:14 zakim, mute me 16:45:14 SaidTabet should now be muted 16:46:04 Uli has joined #rif 16:46:11 ACTION: Chris to respond to RichKR comments 16:46:25 csma, we had several comments on merging use cases 16:47:21 q? 16:47:58 ACTION: Said to rspond to "Third Party" comments 16:48:17 ACTION: Leora to respond to "Decision Support" comments 16:48:58 ACTION: FrankMcCabe to respond to "Information Integration" comments 16:50:46 Allen will take action re "Third Party" comments 16:50:52 csma, presentations for Design Goals in the F2F should be aligned with the section on Design Goals provided be Allen 16:51:09 ACTION: Allen to respond to "Third Party" comments 16:51:31 rrsagent, what are the actions? 16:51:31 I see 6 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-rif-actions.rdf : 16:51:31 ACTION: Ed to synthesize comments on Coverage by Friday and propose ways to answer the comments [2] 16:51:31 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-rif-irc#T16-43-10 16:51:31 ACTION: Chris to respond to RichKR comments [3] 16:51:31 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-rif-irc#T16-46-11 16:51:31 ACTION: Said to rspond to "Third Party" comments [4] 16:51:31 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-rif-irc#T16-47-58 16:51:31 ACTION: Leora to respond to "Decision Support" comments [5] 16:51:31 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-rif-irc#T16-48-17 16:51:31 ACTION: FrankMcCabe to respond to "Information Integration" comments [6] 16:51:31 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-rif-irc#T16-48-58 16:51:31 ACTION: Allen to respond to "Third Party" comments [7] 16:51:31 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-rif-irc#T16-51-09 16:52:15 (need to remove 4...) 16:52:17 ACTION: Said to respond to Human rules comments 16:52:25 rrsagent, drop action 4 16:52:36 paula, I can refine the Requirements doc after the F2F 16:52:41 ACTION: Allen to respond to "Third Party" comments 16:53:10 rrsagent, drop action 9 16:53:21 -Philippe_Bonnard 16:53:28 action: paula to clarify list of requirements taking comments into account 16:53:55 paula, to present what she did in the F2F? 16:54:19 zakim, mute me 16:54:19 Allen_Ginsberg should now be muted 16:54:36 yes 16:54:51 topic: classification 16:54:54 [CONTINUED] ACTION: Chris to start email discussion about what issues are "fuzzy" wrt phase 1 & 2 16:55:34 ChrisW, people should look in the classification list in the WiKi 16:56:01 -Guizhen_Yang 16:56:11 ACTION: Paula to respond to "Policy-Based..." comments 16:57:09 ACTION: PaulV to respond to "Cross-Platform..." comments 16:57:25 rrsagent, what are the actions? 16:57:25 I see 9 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-rif-actions.rdf : 16:57:25 ACTION: Ed to synthesize comments on Coverage by Friday and propose ways to answer the comments [2] 16:57:25 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-rif-irc#T16-43-10 16:57:25 ACTION: Chris to respond to RichKR comments [3] 16:57:25 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-rif-irc#T16-46-11 16:57:25 ACTION: Leora to respond to "Decision Support" comments [5] 16:57:25 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-rif-irc#T16-48-17 16:57:25 ACTION: FrankMcCabe to respond to "Information Integration" comments [6] 16:57:25 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-rif-irc#T16-48-58 16:57:25 ACTION: Allen to respond to "Third Party" comments [7] 16:57:25 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-rif-irc#T16-51-09 16:57:25 ACTION: Said to respond to Human rules comments [8] 16:57:25 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-rif-irc#T16-52-17 16:57:25 ACTION: paula to clarify list of requirements taking comments into account [10] 16:57:25 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-rif-irc#T16-53-28 16:57:25 ACTION: Paula to respond to "Policy-Based..." comments [11] 16:57:25 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-rif-irc#T16-56-11 16:57:25 ACTION: PaulV to respond to "Cross-Platform..." comments [12] 16:57:25 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-rif-irc#T16-57-09 16:57:53 'respond to comments on use cases' means modifying wiki page or writing email? 16:58:23 topic: OWL & RDF COmpatibility 16:58:33 [CONTINUED] ACTION: csma: will send an email to make a distinction between OWL and RIF roles 16:58:33 16:58:46 ACTION: Christian to respond to "Publication" comments 16:59:03 (okay, UCR actions should be caught up now) 17:01:18 f2f agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Feb/0171.html 17:01:32 topic: F2F2 17:01:43 Paula, it means taking into account what comments you can (from emails and the comments box of the poll) 17:02:00 probably a good idea to send an email out when you've done something 17:02:07 ok, thanks 17:02:36 (at least that's my understanding) 17:03:55 I don't think we can coordinate with RuleML 17:03:59 -PaulV 17:04:04 there is not enough time 17:05:46 paula could make a presentation of requirements to open the discussion 17:06:06 +??P19 17:06:46 q? 17:06:47 zakim, ??P19 is PaulV 17:06:48 +PaulV; got it 17:07:01 ack hassan 17:07:30 hassan you are barely audible 17:07:42 hassan: what is the format of presentations? 17:08:10 Suggestion to design goal presenters: if you have time put a link to your lists in the Design Goal section of UCR doc 17:08:16 Paul V volunteers with Hassan 17:08:17 +[IPcaller] 17:08:20 csma, 15 minute presentations 17:08:21 +John_Hall.a (was [IPcaller]) 17:08:48 +1 to Allen's comment 17:09:19 q- 17:09:26 DavidHirtle has joined #rif 17:10:47 csma, we have accepted all observes 17:11:03 s/observes/observers 17:11:22 q? 17:12:04 -Evan_Wallace 17:12:18 -Igor_Mozetic 17:12:25 -holger 17:12:26 -SaidTabet 17:12:27 -Darko 17:12:30 -Deepali_Khushraj 17:12:32 -StanDevitt 17:12:32 bye 17:12:34 -Darko_Anicic 17:12:35 -Gary_Hallmark 17:12:35 bye 17:12:36 -Uli 17:12:37 bye 17:12:38 bye 17:12:40 bye 17:12:40 DavidHirtle has left #rif 17:12:40 -msintek 17:12:42 -Hassan 17:12:43 -Dave_Reynolds 17:12:44 -Ed_Barkmeyer 17:12:45 -Donald_Chapin.a 17:12:46 msintek has left #rif 17:12:46 -FrankMcCabe 17:12:47 -Allen_Ginsberg 17:12:48 -Harold_Boley 17:12:49 -Ugo_Corda 17:12:51 -Sandro 17:12:53 -Deborah_Nichols 17:12:55 -Ora_Lassila 17:12:57 -DavidHirtle 17:12:57 rrsagent, draft minutes 17:12:57 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-rif-minutes.html ChrisW 17:12:59 -Jeff_Pan 17:12:59 Uli has joined #rif 17:13:01 -PaulaP 17:13:03 -PaulV 17:13:05 -Mala_Mehrotra 17:13:07 -pfps 17:13:09 -Leora_Morgenstern 17:13:49 -John_Hall.a 17:14:28 rrsagent, make minutes 17:14:28 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-rif-minutes.html sandro 17:14:49 rrsagent, make logs world visible 17:14:49 I'm logging. I don't understand 'make logs world visible', ChrisW. Try /msg RRSAgent help 17:15:23 -GiorgosStoilos 17:15:25 -ChrisW 17:15:37 rrsagent, make logs world-visible 17:15:37 zakim, who is on the call? 17:15:37 On the phone I see csma, MarkusK (muted), John_Hall (muted), Michael_Kifer 17:15:44 rrsagent, leave 17:15:44 I see 10 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-rif-actions.rdf : 17:15:44 ACTION: Ed to synthesize comments on Coverage by Friday and propose ways to answer the comments [2] 17:15:44 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-rif-irc#T16-43-10 17:15:44 ACTION: Chris to respond to RichKR comments [3] 17:15:44 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-rif-irc#T16-46-11 17:15:44 ACTION: Leora to respond to "Decision Support" comments [5] 17:15:44 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-rif-irc#T16-48-17 17:15:44 ACTION: FrankMcCabe to respond to "Information Integration" comments [6] 17:15:44 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-rif-irc#T16-48-58 17:15:44 ACTION: Allen to respond to "Third Party" comments [7] 17:15:44 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-rif-irc#T16-51-09 17:15:44 ACTION: Said to respond to Human rules comments [8] 17:15:44 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-rif-irc#T16-52-17 17:15:44 ACTION: paula to clarify list of requirements taking comments into account [10] 17:15:44 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-rif-irc#T16-53-28 17:15:44 ACTION: Paula to respond to "Policy-Based..." comments [11] 17:15:44 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-rif-irc#T16-56-11 17:15:44 ACTION: PaulV to respond to "Cross-Platform..." comments [12] 17:15:44 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-rif-irc#T16-57-09 17:15:44 ACTION: Christian to respond to "Publication" comments [13] 17:15:44 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/21-rif-irc#T16-58-46 17:15:50 -Michael_Kifer 17:15:59 -csma