19:47:45 RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag 19:47:45 logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/02/16-wai-wcag-irc 19:48:01 RRSagent, do not start a new log 19:48:08 Zakim, list conferences 19:48:08 I see XML_EXI()1:30PM, WAI_UAWG()2:00PM, SVG_WG()2:00PM active 19:48:09 also scheduled at this time is XML_XSLWG(FOCR)2:00PM 19:48:15 zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG 19:48:15 ok, ben; I see WAI_WCAG()3:00PM scheduled to start in 12 minutes 19:48:36 RRSAgent, make log world 19:48:49 Meeting: WCAG Weekly Telecon 19:49:23 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2006JanMar/0313.html 19:49:34 Chair: Gregg_Vanderheiden and John_Slatin 19:49:51 agenda+ Draft Techniques and proposals for Guideline 3.2 from 02 February 19:49:58 agenda+ GL 1.3 Techniques and issues (Feb 9) 19:50:09 agenda+ GL 2.4 Techniques and issues (Feb 9) 19:50:17 agenda+ GL 3.1 Techniques and Issues (Feb 9) 19:50:27 agenda+ Glossary Issues 19:50:36 agenda+ Team C Proposals week of February 13 2006 19:50:43 agenda+ Guideline 1.1 Techniques (16 February) 19:51:03 agenda+ GL 2.4 Issues and Techniques (Feb 16) 19:51:14 agenda+ SC 1.3.1 Techniques (Feb 16) 19:51:25 RRSAgent, pointer? 19:51:25 See http://www.w3.org/2006/02/16-wai-wcag-irc#T19-51-25 19:52:52 bengt has joined #wai-wcag 19:53:08 hi everyone 19:53:15 hi bengt 19:53:20 i'm back with dsl now :) 19:53:25 great 19:53:34 what kind ? 19:53:50 I got 10mbit both ways :) 19:54:10 4mbit :P 19:54:18 zakim, list conferences 19:54:18 I see XML_EXI()1:30PM, XML_QueryWG(ttf)3:00PM, WAI_UAWG()2:00PM, SVG_WG()2:00PM active 19:54:21 also scheduled at this time are XML_XSLWG(FOCR)2:00PM, WAI_WCAG()3:00PM 19:54:38 Yvette has joined #wai-wcag 19:54:46 hi yvette 19:54:54 hi Yvette 19:55:38 Christophe has joined #wai-wcag 19:55:48 sorcha has joined #wai-wcag 19:56:13 Makoto has joined #wai-wcag 19:57:15 Regrets: Katie_Haritos-Shea, Roberto_Castaldo, Luca_Mascaro 19:58:42 zakim, who is on the phone? 19:58:42 WAI_WCAG()3:00PM has not yet started, ben 19:58:43 On IRC I see Makoto, sorcha, Christophe, Yvette, bengt, RRSAgent, Zakim, rscano, judy, ben 19:59:52 WAI_WCAG()3:00PM has now started 19:59:59 +David_MacDonald 20:00:24 Sofia has joined #wai-wcag 20:00:35 gregg has joined #wai-wcag 20:00:40 +Christophe_Strobbe 20:00:44 +Yvette_Hoitink 20:00:47 +[IPcaller] 20:00:51 +??P30 20:00:58 zakim,??P30 is Bengt_Farre 20:00:58 +Bengt_Farre; got it 20:01:01 +Alex_Li 20:01:13 +??P6 20:01:24 Sorcha Moore segala 20:01:26 +Sofia_Celic 20:01:33 zakim, IPCaller is Sorcha_Moore 20:01:33 +Sorcha_Moore; got it 20:01:45 +[IPcaller] 20:02:01 zakim, [IPcaller] is rscano 20:02:01 +rscano; got it 20:02:03 +John_Slatin 20:02:08 zakim, who's on the phone? 20:02:08 On the phone I see David_MacDonald, Christophe_Strobbe, Yvette_Hoitink, Sorcha_Moore, Bengt_Farre, Alex_Li, ??P6, Sofia_Celic (muted), rscano, John_Slatin 20:02:15 jslatin has joined #wai-wcag 20:02:22 +[IPcaller] 20:02:23 +??P34 20:02:24 zakim, [IPcaller] is Makoto_Ueki 20:02:24 +Makoto_Ueki; got it 20:02:25 zakim, I am rscano 20:02:25 ok, rscano, I now associate you with rscano 20:02:36 David_MacDonald has joined #wai-wcag 20:02:38 zakim, mute me 20:02:38 rscano should now be muted 20:02:45 zakim, ??P6 is Cynthia_Shelley 20:02:45 +Cynthia_Shelley; got it 20:02:46 +Tim_Boland 20:03:07 +Loretta_Guarino_Reid 20:03:15 zakim, who's on the phone? 20:03:15 On the phone I see David_MacDonald, Christophe_Strobbe, Yvette_Hoitink, Sorcha_Moore, Bengt_Farre, Alex_Li, Cynthia_Shelley, Sofia_Celic (muted), rscano (muted), John_Slatin, 20:03:18 ... Makoto_Ueki, ??P34, Tim_Boland, Loretta_Guarino_Reid 20:03:34 zakim, ??P34 is probably Gregg_and_Ben 20:03:34 +Gregg_and_Ben?; got it 20:03:48 +Andi_Snow_Weaver 20:04:05 rellero has joined #wai-wcag 20:04:08 Andi has joined #wai-wcag 20:05:07 scribe: ben 20:05:14 agenda? 20:05:26 zakim, take up agendum 1 20:05:28 zakim, mute me 20:05:35 agendum 1. "Draft Techniques and proposals for Guideline 3.2 from 02 February" taken up [from ben] 20:05:38 Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted 20:05:52 zakim, unmute me 20:05:52 Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted 20:06:27 +[IPcaller] 20:06:32 zakim, [IP is rellero 20:06:32 +rellero; got it 20:06:36 zakim, mute me 20:06:36 rellero should now be muted 20:06:44 q+ to ask "hemisphere?" 20:06:59 zakim, rellero is Roberto_Ellero 20:06:59 +Roberto_Ellero; got it 20:09:08 Makoto has left #wai-wcag 20:09:10 Makoto has joined #wai-wcag 20:09:22 zakim, rscano is Roberto_Scano 20:09:22 +Roberto_Scano; got it 20:10:25 +[IPcaller] 20:10:26 zakim, [IPcaller] is Makoto_Ueki 20:10:27 +Makoto_Ueki; got it 20:11:16 -Roberto_Ellero 20:11:51 ack yvette 20:11:51 Yvette, you wanted to ask "hemisphere?" 20:12:02 +[IPcaller] 20:12:03 04 01zakim, [IP is rellero 20:12:08 04 01zakim, [IP is rellero 20:12:12 What about Venice? :))) 20:12:23 zakim, mute me 20:12:23 sorry, rellero, I do not see a party named 'rellero' 20:12:32 04 01zakim, [IP is roberto_ellero 20:12:45 04 01zakim, [IP is _rellero 20:12:47 zakim, mute me 20:12:47 Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted 20:13:00 04 01zakim, [IP is Roberto_Ellero 20:13:29 zakim, rellero is Roberto_Ellero 20:13:29 sorry, rellero, I do not recognize a party named 'rellero' 20:14:08 zakim, who is on the phone? 20:14:08 On the phone I see David_MacDonald, Christophe_Strobbe, Yvette_Hoitink (muted), Sorcha_Moore, Bengt_Farre, Alex_Li, Cynthia_Shelley, Sofia_Celic (muted), Roberto_Scano (muted), 20:14:11 ... John_Slatin, Makoto_Ueki, Gregg_and_Ben?, Tim_Boland, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Makoto_Ueki.a, [IPcaller] 20:14:47 zakim, [IPcaller] is rellero 20:14:47 +rellero; got it 20:14:55 zakim, mute me 20:14:55 rellero should now be muted 20:15:45 ack tim 20:17:09 -Makoto_Ueki 20:22:03 resolution: accept unanimous and unanimous with comments items - Proposed revisions to SC 3.2.2, Issue 974, Issue 1596, Issue 1847, Issue 717, Issue 1033, Issue 1844, Issue 1572, Issue 386, Using both keyboard and other device-specific functions, Failure due to using script to remove focus when focus is received 20:22:14 Topic: Failure due to opening a new window as soon as a new page is loaded 20:22:21 q? 20:22:23 ack alex 20:23:07 zakim, unmute me 20:23:07 Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted 20:23:29 q+ to ask "Gregg, could you speak up?" 20:28:30 ack y 20:28:30 Yvette, you wanted to ask "Gregg, could you speak up?" 20:29:04 zakim, mute me 20:29:04 Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted 20:38:19 ack John 20:40:05 zakim, unmute me 20:40:05 Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted 20:40:10 Andi has joined #wai-wcag 20:41:06 q+ 20:42:02 action 1 = team a to consider new title and description revisions to ensure that it does not cover purposeful (user-initiated) opening of multiple windows. 20:42:11 q- 20:42:34 Topic: Presenting navigational components in the same relative order each time they appear 20:47:24 resolved, remove technique, "Presenting navigational components in the same relative order each time they appear" and combine with more general technique about repeated components 20:47:53 Topic: Failure due to using different text alternatives for components with identical functions 20:48:14 +Kerstin_Goldsmith 20:49:00 Topic: Failure due to using two different labels for same function on different pages 20:52:14 ack John 20:53:07 q+ 20:53:12 -Kerstin_Goldsmith 20:53:23 q- 20:53:27 +Kerstin_Goldsmith 20:53:43 action: alex to send gregg example regarding print invoice vs. print receipt, gregg to include in draft, "Failure due to using two different labels for same function on different pages" 20:54:04 resolution: accept propsoed technique, "Failure due to using two different labels for same function on different pages" 20:54:21 Topic: Failure due to using different text alternatives for components with identical functions 20:57:46 action: team A to combine "Failure due to using different text alternatives for components with identical functions" and "Failure due to using two different labels for same function on different pages" as "Failure due to using different labels or text alternatives for components with identical functions" 20:58:33 Topic: Providing a mechanism to request an update of the content instead of updating automatically 20:59:13 zakim, unmute me 20:59:13 Yvette_Hoitink was not muted, Yvette 21:00:58 zakim, mute me 21:00:58 Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted 21:03:23 resolution: accept proposed technique, "Providing a mechanism to request an update of the content instead of updating automatically" with edits. 21:03:36 Topic: Implementing automatic redirects on the server side instead of on the client side 21:03:55 +Judy 21:04:38 zakim, unmute me 21:04:38 Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted 21:04:41 q+ 21:06:46 it easy to test: if in the page there are meta elements that made redirect, the page don't pass the SC 21:08:17 zakim, mute me 21:08:17 Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted 21:08:34 yes good :) 21:12:46 resolution: accept proposed technique, "Implementing automatic redirects on the server side instead of on the client side" with the revisions to test as follows, "06 For each link or programmatic reference to a URL in the set of develivery units being evaluated, check if the referenced delivery unit contains code (e.g. meta element or script) that causes a client-side redirect.01" 21:13:21 Topic: Failure due to unrequested removal of controls of user agent 21:14:41 q- 21:14:45 ack John 21:15:29 ack cynthia 21:15:30 q+ 21:17:05 q- 21:17:11 ack loretta 21:20:25 ack Lor 21:21:24 ack cynthia 21:21:42 Andi has joined #wai-wcag 21:22:40 resolution: move "Failure due to unrequested removal of controls of user agent" to the boneyard since the failure is not currently covered in this SC. 21:23:03 action: david to explore whether Failure due to unrequested removal of controls of user agent fits someplace else in the guidelines 21:23:14 Topic: Using an instant client-side redirect 21:23:58 zakim, unmute me 21:23:58 Yvette_Hoitink was not muted, Yvette 21:25:07 ack Cynthia 21:25:08 21:27:17 resolution: accept proposed technique, "Using an instant client-side redirect" with edits. 21:28:58 Topic: Failure due to opening a new window or a pop-up after a click on content that does not perform a function 21:29:24 zakim, mute me 21:29:24 Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted 21:29:26 ack Alex 21:30:18 +??P12 21:30:20 -Kerstin_Goldsmith 21:31:52 back to team A for additional revisions 21:31:55 Topic: 21:32:11 Topic: Failure due to using meta refresh with a timeout 21:32:49 q+ 21:32:53 q+ 21:33:37 q- 21:34:25 zakim, unmute me 21:34:25 Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted 21:35:15 q- 21:35:26 ack lo 21:35:26 ack Loretta 21:35:36 resolution: accept technique, "Failure due to using meta refresh with a timeout" with edits 21:35:44 zakim, close this item 21:35:44 agendum 1 closed 21:35:45 I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 21:35:46 2. GL 1.3 Techniques and issues (Feb 9) [from ben] 21:36:15 zakim, take up agendum 2 21:36:15 agendum 2. "GL 1.3 Techniques and issues (Feb 9)" taken up [from ben] 21:37:06 Kesh has joined #wai-wcag 21:37:23 Topic: Failure due to using th elements, and 21:37:23 summary attributes in layout tables 21:40:01 in WCAG 1.0 was for *all* the table: 5.5 Provide summaries for tables. [Priority 3]. But we really need to have summary for simple layout table? 21:42:38 Regrets+ Marco_Bertoni 21:43:43 q+ 21:43:45 Becky has joined #wai-wcag 21:44:21 q- 21:44:22 +[IBM] 21:44:35 zakim, [IBM] is becky_gibson 21:44:35 +becky_gibson; got it 21:46:19 q+ 21:47:12 q+ to say "if the summary attribute is used on layout tables, it should be null" 21:47:28 q- 21:47:45 ack andi 21:47:55 why should be used as null? it is no required by specifications. 21:48:20 ack John 21:49:50 zakim, unmute me 21:49:51 Yvette_Hoitink was not muted, Yvette 21:51:23 no resolution 21:51:36 Topic: Failure due to providing text alternatives that include words that appear in a text image, but fail to include information that is conveyed by the color of certain words in the image 21:51:45 zakim, who is making noise ? 21:51:56 bengt, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Judy (38%), Yvette_Hoitink (23%), Sorcha_Moore (9%), John_Slatin (48%), Gregg_and_Ben? (33%), Tim_Boland (4%), 21:51:59 ... Loretta_Guarino_Reid (9%) 21:53:55 ack lor 21:53:57 q+ 21:54:40 zakim, mute me 21:54:40 Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted 21:55:58 q? 21:55:58 q+ to suggest, "Failure due to omitting information conveyed by color in non-text content from text alternatives." 21:56:14 ack y 21:57:57 /me Yvette's proposal ""Failure due to having a text alternative that does not include information that is conveyed by color in the image" 21:58:50 /me ""Failure due to having a text alternative that does not include information that is conveyed by color in the image" 21:59:06 sorry, I have to go, bye 21:59:18 -rellero 21:59:42 zakim, mute me 21:59:42 Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted 22:01:35 resolution: accept technique with edits and retitle as, "Failure due to having a text alternative that does not include information that is conveyed by color in the image" 22:01:40 scribe: Andi 22:02:00 Topic: Failure due to using CSS to create variations in presentation of text that conveys information without also using structure 22:02:01 zakim, unmute me 22:02:01 Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted 22:05:18 q+ 22:05:31 q- 22:07:23 ack Beck 22:07:30 resolution: Accept technique with edit - create a new example using color or bold and move the heading example to 1.3.1 22:07:56 Topic: Failure due to identifying content only by its shape or location 22:09:05 resolution: accept with suggested edits 22:09:19 zakim, close this item 22:09:22 agendum 2 closed 22:09:25 zakim, take up agendum 3 22:09:26 I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 22:09:32 3. GL 2.4 Techniques and issues (Feb 9) [from ben] 22:09:36 agendum 3. "GL 2.4 Techniques and issues (Feb 9)" taken up [from ben] 22:11:47 zakim, who's making noise 22:11:47 I don't understand 'who's making noise', David_MacDonald 22:12:27 zakim, who is making noise ? 22:12:38 bengt, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Judy (62%), Sorcha_Moore (9%), John_Slatin (39%), Loretta_Guarino_Reid (38%) 22:14:33 Topic: Rewording 2.4.3 and moving it up to Level 1 22:16:27 q+ to say "last week we said that the nl element in XHTML 2 would meet the SC without the author having to add a skiplink" 22:16:49 ack Christophe 22:16:49 Christophe, you wanted to say "last week we said that the nl element in XHTML 2 would meet the SC without the author having to add a skiplink" 22:18:05 zakim, unmute me 22:18:05 Yvette_Hoitink was not muted, Yvette 22:19:33 -Tim_Boland 22:19:43 q 22:19:48 q+ 22:22:01 ack Becky 22:22:11 q+ 22:22:13 ack John 22:22:20 q+ 22:23:15 apologies, have gotten cut off skype - am rejoining 22:23:16 -Sorcha_Moore 22:23:30 +[IPcaller] 22:24:25 zakim, IPCaller is Sorcha_Moore 22:24:25 +Sorcha_Moore; got it 22:25:24 ack Ben 22:25:30 q- 22:25:31 ack Cyn 22:31:45 zakim, unmute me 22:31:45 Yvette_Hoitink was not muted, Yvette 22:32:50 Apologies, but must exit call early. 22:33:09 sorcha has left #wai-wcag 22:33:23 -Sorcha_Moore 22:36:29 q- 22:36:33 q- 22:37:51 -Roberto_Scano 22:40:47 2 proposals: change 2.4.3 to require only an invisible mechanism and move it to Level 1 and add a Level 2 SC for a visible mechanism. 22:44:34 ack Cynthia 22:44:41 q+ 22:46:43 q- 22:47:56 resolution: adopt proposal to have a Level 1 SC for an invisible mechanism - structure that can be used to navigate would be sufficient 22:48:14 resolution: reject proposal to add a Level 2 SC for a visible mechanism 22:49:02 topic: The title element 22:51:26 topic: Using the title attribute of the frame element 22:51:56 resolution: accept as a technique for 2.4.6 with a proviso that it makes sense there. 22:52:30 topic: Providing descriptive headings 22:53:02 resolution: accept technique with suggested edits 22:54:36 zakim, close this item 22:54:36 agendum 3 closed 22:54:37 I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 22:54:39 4. GL 3.1 Techniques and Issues (Feb 9) [from ben] 22:54:41 zakim, take up next agendum 22:54:41 agendum 4. "GL 3.1 Techniques and Issues (Feb 9)" taken up [from ben] 22:57:34 q+ 22:58:11 ack John 22:58:18 ack Andi 23:00:27 -Yvette_Hoitink 23:00:53 +Yvette_Hoitink 23:01:11 ack Alex 23:02:59 topic: proposal to change the wording of 3.1.2 23:06:46 resolution: reject proposal to change wording of 3.1.2. Remove the word "foreign" in the current wording of 3.1.2. 23:07:23 resolution: reword Note on 3.1.2 - "...apply to individual words or phrases that have become..." 23:07:59 topic: How to meet 3.1.4 23:11:01 q+ to ask, "is there and And/or relationship between the two lists"? 23:11:06 ack lor 23:12:05 resolution: accepted with edits 23:12:15 q- 23:12:27 topic: Providing the expansion or explanation of an abbreviation 23:13:30 zakim, unmute me 23:13:30 Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted 23:14:36 q+ 23:14:59 q- 23:15:35 resolution: accept with edits and approval from people who have concerns - team to decide if needs another WG review 23:16:00 topic: Providing the abbreviation immediately following the first use of the expanded form within the delivery unit 23:17:01 resolution: accept with edits (understanding that "delivery unit" is still under discussion in the group) 23:17:44 topic: Linking to definitions 23:17:50 resolution: accept with edits 23:18:02 topic: 23:18:05 topic: Using a Glossary 23:18:13 resolution: accept with edits 23:18:28 topic: Abbreviations 23:19:39 resolution: accept this as one technique with edits 23:20:26 topic: Supplemental Meaning Cues 23:23:20 resolution: accept as advisory technique, not a sufficient technique, as revised 23:24:08 resolution: change title to "Using the link element to link to a glossary" 23:24:30 topic: Glossary Page 23:24:38 resolution: accept with edits 23:25:28 topic: Issue 1753 23:26:21 resolution: "Using the link element to link to a glossary" is the new title for "Glossary Page" 23:27:30 resolution: issue 1753 proposal accepted with Gregg's alternative closing comment 23:27:52 topic: 3.1.5 success criteria rewording 23:27:57 resolution: accept with edits 23:28:22 topic: Measuring the readability of text content 23:28:29 resolution: refer back to committee 23:28:45 topic: Providing a text summary that requires reading ability less advanced than lower secondary education level 23:28:51 resolution: accept with edits 23:29:07 topic: Providing visual illustrations of complex ideas, events, and processes 23:29:14 resolution: accept with edits 23:29:37 topic: Providing a spoken version of the text 23:29:43 resolution: accept with edits 23:30:00 topic: delivery unit 23:31:22 zakim, who is on the phone? 23:31:22 On the phone I see David_MacDonald, Christophe_Strobbe, Bengt_Farre, Alex_Li, Cynthia_Shelley, Sofia_Celic (muted), John_Slatin, Gregg_and_Ben?, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, 23:31:26 ... Andi_Snow_Weaver, Makoto_Ueki.a, Judy, ??P12, becky_gibson, Yvette_Hoitink 23:32:36 problem with using delivery unit because each jpg within a page would be a delivery unit and would have to include a title 23:32:42 23:32:42 Present: David_MacDonald, Christophe_Strobbe, Yvette_Hoitink, Sorcha_Moore, Bengt_Farre, Alex_Li, Cynthia_Shelley, Sofia_Celic, Roberto_Scano, John_Slatin, Makoto_Ueki, Gregg_Vanderheiden, Ben_Caldwell, Tim_Boland, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Makoto_Ueki, Roberto_Ellero, Kerstin_Goldsmith, Becky_Gibson 23:34:29 q+ to ask "how long are we going to continue?" 23:34:33 q- 23:34:38 -Sofia_Celic 23:34:39 -Alex_Li 23:34:41 -Christophe_Strobbe 23:34:42 -Loretta_Guarino_Reid 23:34:43 -Judy 23:34:44 -David_MacDonald 23:34:45 -Bengt_Farre 23:34:47 -John_Slatin 23:34:48 -Cynthia_Shelley 23:34:49 -Yvette_Hoitink 23:34:50 -Makoto_Ueki.a 23:34:52 -becky_gibson 23:34:53 -Gregg_and_Ben? 23:34:55 think about it, read and contribute to the mailing list on the "BIG ISSUE" topic - will discuss again next week 23:35:01