IRC log of wai-wcag on 2006-02-09

Timestamps are in UTC.

19:56:02 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
19:56:02 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/02/09-wai-wcag-irc
19:56:09 [ben]
RRSAgent, make log world
19:56:33 [ben]
Meeting: WCAG Weekly Telecon
19:56:41 [ben]
Chair: Gregg_Vanderheiden and John_Slatin
19:56:52 [ben]
Regrets: Roberto_Scano, Sebastiano_Nutarelli, Roberto_Castaldo
19:58:09 [ben]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2006JanMar/0211.html
19:58:31 [ben]
agenda+ Techniques for SC 1.3.1 from 26 January
19:58:32 [Christophe]
Christophe has joined #wai-wcag
19:58:42 [ben]
agenda+ Draft Techniques and Issues for Guideline 2.4 from 02 February
19:58:51 [ben]
agenda+ Draft Techniques and proposals for Guideline 3.2 from 02 February
19:59:01 [ben]
agenda+ GL 1.3 Techniques and issues (Feb 9)
19:59:13 [ben]
agenda+ GL 2.4 Techniques and issues (Feb 9)
19:59:24 [ben]
agenda+ GL 3.1 Techniques and issues
19:59:42 [Yvette]
zakim, which conference?
19:59:42 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, Yvette.
19:59:51 [ben]
zakim, list conferences
19:59:51 [Zakim]
I see WAI_UAWG()2:00PM, XML_EXI()1:30PM, WAI_WCAG()3:00PM, SVG_WG()2:00PM, XML_QueryWG(ttf)3:00PM active and no others scheduled near this time
19:59:58 [ben]
zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
19:59:58 [Zakim]
ok, ben, I see WAI_WCAG()3:00PM already started
20:00:04 [ben]
zakim, who is on the phone?
20:00:04 [Zakim]
On the phone I see David_MacDonald, Alex_Li
20:00:04 [Yvette]
zakim, who's on the phone?
20:00:05 [Zakim]
On the phone I see David_MacDonald, Alex_Li
20:00:23 [Zakim]
+Michael_Cooper
20:00:35 [Zakim]
+??P31
20:00:53 [Yvette]
zakim, ??P31 is Yvette_Hoitink
20:00:58 [jslatin]
jslatin has joined #wai-wcag
20:01:04 [Sofia]
Sofia has joined #wai-wcag
20:01:05 [Zakim]
+Yvette_Hoitink; got it
20:01:15 [Zakim]
+??P1
20:01:28 [Zakim]
+John_Slatin
20:01:34 [ben]
zakim, ??P1 is Gregg_and_Ben
20:01:34 [Zakim]
+Gregg_and_Ben; got it
20:01:37 [gregg]
gregg has joined #wai-wcag
20:01:40 [ben]
zakim, who is on the phone?
20:01:40 [Zakim]
On the phone I see David_MacDonald, Alex_Li, Michael_Cooper (muted), Yvette_Hoitink, Gregg_and_Ben, John_Slatin
20:01:43 [Zakim]
+??P2
20:02:15 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
20:02:16 [Makoto]
zakim, [IPcaller] is Makoto_Ueki
20:02:16 [Zakim]
+Makoto_Ueki; got it
20:02:21 [Zakim]
+Sofia_Celic
20:02:29 [Zakim]
+Andi_Snow_Weaver
20:02:31 [Yvette]
zakim, ??P2 is Katie_Haritos-Shea
20:02:31 [Zakim]
+Katie_Haritos-Shea; got it
20:02:54 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
20:03:01 [Andi]
Andi has joined #wai-wcag
20:03:05 [LucaMascaro]
Zakim, [IP is LucaMascaro
20:03:05 [Zakim]
+LucaMascaro; got it
20:03:10 [Zakim]
+Christophe_Strobbe
20:03:12 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
20:03:14 [ben]
RRSagent, pointer?
20:03:14 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2006/02/09-wai-wcag-irc#T20-03-14
20:03:24 [Makoto]
zakim, mute me
20:03:25 [Zakim]
Makoto_Ueki should now be muted
20:03:27 [rellero]
zakim, [IP is rellero
20:03:27 [Zakim]
+rellero; got it
20:03:32 [rellero]
zakim, mute me
20:03:32 [Zakim]
rellero should now be muted
20:03:38 [LucaMascaro]
Zakim, mute me
20:03:38 [Zakim]
LucaMascaro should now be muted
20:03:51 [Zakim]
+??P11
20:04:24 [David]
David has joined #wai-wcag
20:04:28 [ben]
zakim, ??P11 is Cynthia_Shelly
20:04:28 [Zakim]
+Cynthia_Shelly; got it
20:05:12 [Becky]
Becky has joined #wai-wcag
20:05:27 [Zakim]
+Becky_Gibson
20:06:13 [ben]
zakim, take up agendum 1
20:06:13 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Techniques for SC 1.3.1 from 26 January" taken up [from ben]
20:06:17 [Zakim]
+Loretta_Guarino_Reid
20:06:18 [ben]
scribe: Becky
20:11:57 [Becky]
Resolution: adopt all items where acceptance was unanimous except for edits. Items are:
20:11:57 [Becky]
SC2.4.2 Table of contents, General technique for SC 2.4.3: Skip to main content, SC 2.4.8 technique on breadcrumb trails, HTML technique for link element and navigation, Providing a submit button to initiate a change of context, Providing submit buttons in HTML, SC 1.3.1 Common Failure: Failure due to using space characters to format tables in simple text content, SC 1.3.1 Common Failure: Failure due to using space characters to create multiple columns in simp
20:12:45 [Andi]
Andi has joined #wai-wcag
20:14:26 [Becky]
ack john
20:14:32 [gregg]
ack c
20:16:09 [Becky]
Topic: Using table, tr, and td elements for tabular information and Using th elements to identify column and row headers in data tables (but not in layout tables)
20:16:28 [Becky]
after brief discussion teamb has enough information to rework these examples.
20:17:02 [Becky]
Topic: Using caption elements to identify data tables (but not layout tables) (1.3.1 HTML technique)
20:17:38 [Michael]
q+
20:18:34 [Becky]
ack mich
20:19:23 [Becky]
q+
20:19:25 [Christophe]
q+ to say "caption also exists outside HTML"
20:20:20 [Becky]
ack be
20:20:21 [Yvette]
q+ to say "use applicability section of technique"
20:20:51 [Zakim]
+Sorcha_Moore
20:21:49 [ben]
ack Christophe
20:21:49 [Zakim]
Christophe, you wanted to say "caption also exists outside HTML"
20:22:13 [Christophe]
ach chr
20:22:19 [Christophe]
ack chr
20:22:19 [Yvette]
ack john
20:22:26 [ben]
ack John
20:24:49 [Yvette]
ack y
20:24:49 [Zakim]
Yvette, you wanted to say "use applicability section of technique"
20:25:54 [sorcha]
sorcha has joined #wai-wcag
20:25:57 [Christophe]
zakim, mute me
20:25:57 [Zakim]
Christophe_Strobbe should now be muted
20:26:15 [bengt]
bengt has joined #wai-wcag
20:27:02 [Zakim]
+??P15
20:27:12 [bengt]
zakim, ??P15 is Bengt_Farre
20:27:12 [Zakim]
+Bengt_Farre; got it
20:34:22 [ben]
q?
20:34:30 [ben]
ack Lor
20:34:54 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
20:35:01 [Zakim]
+Kerstin_Goldsmith
20:35:04 [ben]
ack Alex
20:35:06 [Zakim]
-Sorcha_Moore
20:35:26 [ben]
zakim, who is on the phone?
20:35:26 [Zakim]
On the phone I see David_MacDonald, Alex_Li, Michael_Cooper, Yvette_Hoitink, Gregg_and_Ben, John_Slatin, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Makoto_Ueki (muted), Sofia_Celic (muted),
20:35:29 [Zakim]
... Andi_Snow_Weaver, LucaMascaro (muted), rellero (muted), Christophe_Strobbe (muted), Cynthia_Shelly, Becky_Gibson, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Bengt_Farre, [IPcaller],
20:35:31 [Zakim]
... Kerstin_Goldsmith
20:35:51 [sorcha]
apologies - am having trouble with my telephone connection so have changed to skype
20:36:12 [ben]
zakim, [IPcaller] is Sorcha_Moore
20:36:12 [Zakim]
+Sorcha_Moore; got it
20:36:38 [ben]
q?
20:37:42 [Zakim]
+Judy
20:38:56 [Becky]
ack kat
20:39:11 [judy]
judy has joined #wai-wcag
20:39:52 [Becky]
after discussion: keep caption and summary techniques separate but to cross reference them. Team b will rework.
20:41:18 [Becky]
Topic: Using id and headers attributes to associate data cells with header cells in data tables (but not in layout tables)
20:41:25 [Becky]
Team b will rework based on comments
20:42:07 [ben]
ack Lor
20:42:40 [Becky]
Topic: HTML Tech - Using label elements to associate text labels with form fields
20:43:26 [Becky]
Resolution: Adopt HTML technique, Using label elements to associate text labels with form fields, with the suggested edits.
20:43:53 [Becky]
Topic: Tech - Using title attributes to label form controls that can't be individually labeled
20:44:32 [Becky]
Resolution: Adopt HTML technique, Using title attributes to label form controls that can't be individually labeled, with suggested edits.
20:44:53 [Becky]
Topic: HTML tech - Using ol, ul and dl for lists
20:46:09 [Christophe]
zakim, unmute me
20:46:09 [Zakim]
Christophe_Strobbe should no longer be muted
20:47:47 [ben]
ack Cynth
20:48:51 [Yvette]
Yvette has joined #wai-wcag
20:48:52 [ben]
ack John
20:48:56 [gregg]
q+
20:49:00 [Yvette]
q+ to say "sufficient but not necessary"
20:50:25 [ben]
ack Gregg
20:50:48 [ben]
ack Yve
20:50:48 [Zakim]
Yvette, you wanted to say "sufficient but not necessary"
20:51:28 [ben]
ack Lor
20:53:25 [ben]
ack Kers
20:55:22 [Becky]
Resolution: Adopt HTML technique, Using ol, ul and dl for lists, with suggested edits.
20:55:58 [Becky]
Topic: HTML Technique, Using headings
20:56:58 [ben]
zakim, who is on the phone?
20:56:58 [Zakim]
On the phone I see David_MacDonald, Alex_Li, Michael_Cooper, Yvette_Hoitink, Gregg_and_Ben, John_Slatin, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Makoto_Ueki (muted), Sofia_Celic (muted),
20:57:02 [Zakim]
... Andi_Snow_Weaver, LucaMascaro (muted), rellero (muted), Christophe_Strobbe, Cynthia_Shelly, Becky_Gibson, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Bengt_Farre, Sorcha_Moore, Kerstin_Goldsmith,
20:57:04 [Zakim]
... Judy
20:59:19 [Zakim]
-Kerstin_Goldsmith
21:00:09 [ben]
ack John
21:01:16 [ben]
ack Katie
21:01:36 [Kesh]
Kesh has joined #wai-wcag
21:02:35 [ben]
ack John
21:03:28 [David]
q+
21:04:23 [Christophe]
q+
21:06:12 [ben]
ack David
21:06:39 [ben]
ack Christophe
21:12:28 [Christophe]
q+
21:13:18 [Christophe]
q-
21:15:38 [Yvette]
Yvette has joined #wai-wcag
21:15:41 [Yvette]
q?
21:18:39 [Christophe]
q+ to say "remove reference to XHTML 2 because that spec will require a separate techniques document?"
21:19:51 [Yvette]
ack yve
21:22:16 [rellero]
Sorry I have to leave, bye
21:22:25 [Zakim]
-rellero
21:23:24 [ben]
ack Christophe
21:23:24 [Zakim]
Christophe, you wanted to say "remove reference to XHTML 2 because that spec will require a separate techniques document?"
21:23:29 [David]
q+
21:23:34 [Christophe]
ack Christophe
21:24:17 [ben]
ack Lor
21:24:44 [ben]
ack david
21:26:44 [Zakim]
+??P8
21:26:54 [Becky]
Resolution: Send HTML Technique, Using Headings, back to team b: In addition to edits on survey: suggest new title "Using h for headings", suggested Update description that is best practice is to not skip numbers rather than requirement. Will remove any mention of hierarchy from the tests for this technique.
21:27:06 [Becky]
Topic: Using standard text formatting conventions for paragraphs
21:28:43 [ben]
ack Cynth
21:34:58 [jslatin]
9brb
21:35:22 [Becky]
Topic (cont): Using standard text formatting conventions for lists and Using standard text formatting conventions for headings
21:35:47 [Becky]
Resolution: accept 3 plain text techniques with suggested edits and the following ammendment: For plain text list technique. List items are paragraphs which begin with a asterisk or number.
21:35:58 [ben]
zakim, close this item
21:35:58 [Zakim]
agendum 1 closed
21:35:59 [Zakim]
I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
21:36:00 [Zakim]
2. Draft Techniques and Issues for Guideline 2.4 from 02 February [from ben]
21:36:03 [ben]
zakim, take up agendum 2
21:36:03 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Draft Techniques and Issues for Guideline 2.4 from 02 February" taken up [from ben]
21:37:36 [Becky]
Topic: Proposal to delete 2.4.1
21:38:20 [Becky]
Subcommittee has been appointed to dicuss further.
21:39:25 [Becky]
Topic: General technique for Using a Site Map
21:41:10 [Becky]
Resolution: accept general technique, Using a Site Map, with edit process.
21:42:42 [Becky]
Topic: Proposal to change SC 2.4.3 wording
21:43:29 [bengt]
q+ to say in another survey
21:45:19 [ben]
ack bengt
21:45:19 [Zakim]
bengt, you wanted to say in another survey
21:45:25 [Yvette]
zakim, unmute me
21:45:25 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink was not muted, Yvette
21:45:31 [Yvette]
zakim, mute me
21:45:31 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
21:47:08 [Becky]
A mechanism is available to bypass blocks of content that are repeated on multiple perceivable units."
21:48:08 [Becky]
resolution: change 2.4.3 wording to, "A mechanism is available to bypass blocks of content that are repeated on multiple perceivable units."
21:48:43 [ben]
ack Cyn
21:49:19 [Becky]
Topic: discuss requiring skip links to be visible as sufficient to meet 2.4.3
21:49:44 [Becky]
Will discuss when reach the Feb 9 2.4 survey
21:50:05 [Becky]
Topic: Proposal for SC 2.4.5 wording
21:56:29 [ben]
ack Lor
21:56:33 [ben]
ack John
21:57:09 [Andi]
q
21:57:15 [Andi]
q+
21:58:14 [David]
q+
21:58:33 [ben]
ack Andi
22:00:10 [ben]
ack John
22:00:59 [ben]
RRSAgent, do not start a new log
22:01:56 [Zakim]
-LucaMascaro
22:07:08 [ben]
ack David
22:07:13 [ben]
ack Cynthia
22:14:17 [Sofia]
q
22:19:06 [Zakim]
-Cynthia_Shelly
22:19:08 [Becky]
resolution: reject proposal to change the wording of 2.4.5.
22:19:40 [ben]
zakim, close this item
22:19:40 [Zakim]
agendum 2 closed
22:19:41 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
22:19:42 [Zakim]
3. Draft Techniques and proposals for Guideline 3.2 from 02 February [from ben]
22:19:50 [ben]
zakim, take up agendum 3
22:19:50 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Draft Techniques and proposals for Guideline 3.2 from 02 February" taken up [from ben]
22:19:56 [Andi]
scribe: Andi
22:20:23 [Zakim]
+??P6
22:20:55 [ben]
zakim, ??P6 is Cynthia_Shelly
22:20:55 [Zakim]
+Cynthia_Shelly; got it
22:26:56 [gregg]
q?
22:27:52 [Christophe]
zakim, mute me
22:27:52 [Zakim]
Christophe_Strobbe should now be muted
22:32:35 [Becky]
q+
22:34:39 [gregg]
q+
22:34:50 [gregg]
ack j
22:34:52 [gregg]
ack b
22:35:33 [ben]
ack gregg
22:35:34 [gregg]
ack g
22:41:35 [ben]
ack John
22:44:07 [David]
q+
22:44:17 [ben]
ack Lor
22:44:19 [ben]
ack John
22:45:19 [ben]
ack David
22:46:43 [Zakim]
-Michael_Cooper
22:51:34 [Andi]
resolution: 3.2.2 Changing the setting of any form control or field does not automatically cause a change of context unless the delivery unit contains instructions before the control that describe the behavior.
22:57:23 [Becky]
q
22:57:28 [Becky]
q+
22:57:35 [Andi]
ack lor
22:58:14 [judy]
q+
22:58:20 [judy]
q-
23:00:22 [gregg]
q?
23:00:24 [Zakim]
-Yvette_Hoitink
23:00:34 [gregg]
q?
23:01:05 [Zakim]
+??P7
23:01:11 [Yvette]
zakim, ??P7 is Yvette_Hoitink
23:01:11 [Zakim]
+Yvette_Hoitink; got it
23:01:41 [Kesh]
Kesh has left #wai-wcag
23:01:42 [Andi]
q+
23:01:45 [Zakim]
-??P8
23:01:53 [gregg]
ack b
23:01:54 [Becky]
ack b
23:05:33 [Andi]
ack a
23:08:17 [Andi]
resolution: Changing the setting of any form control or field does not automatically cause a change of context (beyond moving to the next field in tab order) unless the delivery unit contains instructions before the control that describe the behavior.
23:08:56 [Andi]
rationale: concern that putting the exception in the definition would allow moving the focus to the next field when a field receives focus (3.2.1)
23:10:22 [Yvette]
q+
23:10:43 [Yvette]
q+ to ask "how long are we going to continue? I need to sleep soon"
23:10:49 [Yvette]
ack y
23:10:49 [Zakim]
Yvette, you wanted to ask "how long are we going to continue? I need to sleep soon"
23:11:17 [Zakim]
-Yvette_Hoitink
23:20:35 [Andi]
resolution: 3.2.2 moves to Level 1
23:21:51 [Andi]
resolution: keep failure technique with slight modification "Failure due to automatically submitting a form and presenting new content when the last field in the form is given a value without prior warning."
23:22:17 [judy]
judy has left #wai-wcag
23:22:47 [Zakim]
-Judy
23:30:04 [Zakim]
-Gregg_and_Ben
23:30:10 [Zakim]
-Becky_Gibson
23:30:14 [Zakim]
-Makoto_Ueki
23:30:18 [Zakim]
-David_MacDonald
23:30:24 [Zakim]
-Sofia_Celic
23:30:26 [Zakim]
-Katie_Haritos-Shea
23:30:27 [Zakim]
-Christophe_Strobbe
23:30:28 [Zakim]
-Cynthia_Shelly
23:30:30 [Zakim]
-Andi_Snow_Weaver
23:30:32 [Zakim]
-Alex_Li
23:30:33 [Zakim]
-Loretta_Guarino_Reid
23:30:34 [Zakim]
-John_Slatin
23:30:35 [Zakim]
-Bengt_Farre
23:30:39 [ben]
zakim, bye
23:30:39 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were David_MacDonald, Alex_Li, Michael_Cooper, Yvette_Hoitink, John_Slatin, Gregg_and_Ben, Makoto_Ueki, Sofia_Celic, Andi_Snow_Weaver,
23:30:39 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #wai-wcag
23:30:42 [Zakim]
... Katie_Haritos-Shea, LucaMascaro, Christophe_Strobbe, rellero, Cynthia_Shelly, Becky_Gibson, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Sorcha_Moore, Bengt_Farre, Kerstin_Goldsmith, Judy
23:30:47 [sorcha]
sorcha has left #wai-wcag
23:30:52 [bengt]
bengt has left #wai-wcag
23:34:11 [Christophe]
Christophe has left #wai-wcag
23:53:30 [ben]
ben has left #wai-wcag