14:41:19 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #i18nits
14:41:19 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/02/08-i18nits-irc
14:41:30 <fsasaki> meeting: i18n ITS working group
14:41:36 <fsasaki> chair: Yves
14:41:37 <fsasaki> scribe: Felix
14:41:43 <fsasaki> scribeNick: fsasaki
14:42:58 <fsasaki> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JanMar/0069.html
14:43:12 <fsasaki> rrsagent, make log public
14:51:37 <YvesS> YvesS has joined #i18nits
14:59:29 <Zakim> I18N_TS()10:00AM has now started
14:59:34 <fsasaki> zakim, dial felix-home
14:59:34 <Zakim> ok, fsasaki; the call is being made
14:59:36 <Zakim> +Yves_Savourel
14:59:52 <Zakim> +Sebastian_Rahtz
15:00:01 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:00:19 <fsasaki> zakim, drop felix
15:00:19 <Zakim> sorry, fsasaki, I do not see a party named 'felix'
15:00:23 <fsasaki> zakim, drop felix-home
15:00:23 <Zakim> sorry, fsasaki, I do not see a party named 'felix-home'
15:00:35 <fsasaki> zakim, who is here?
15:00:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see Yves_Savourel, Sebastian_Rahtz, [IPcaller]
15:00:36 <Zakim> On IRC I see YvesS, RRSAgent, Zakim, fsasaki, rahtz
15:00:43 <fsasaki> zakim, dial felix-home
15:00:46 <Zakim> ok, fsasaki; the call is being made
15:00:52 <Zakim> +Felix
15:01:09 <GoutamSaha> GoutamSaha has joined #i18nits
15:01:18 <YvesS> Hi Goutam.
15:01:19 <AZ> AZ has joined #i18nits
15:01:26 <GoutamSaha> Hi Felix
15:01:44 <GoutamSaha> Hi Andrejz
15:01:49 <chriLi> chriLi has joined #i18nits
15:01:53 <GoutamSaha> Hi Yves
15:02:00 <fsasaki> zakim, who is noisy?
15:02:11 <Zakim> fsasaki, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: [IPcaller] (92%)
15:02:29 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
15:02:40 <AZ> Dialing in on land line
15:02:52 <Zakim> +??P21
15:03:13 <fsasaki> zakim, ??P21 is Christian
15:03:13 <Zakim> +Christian; got it
15:03:54 <fsasaki> regrets: Diane, Najib, Richard
15:03:59 <Zakim> +Andrzej_Zydron
15:04:08 <AZ> Back again
15:04:27 <fsasaki> topic: action items
15:04:45 <fsasaki> action: Christian and Felix to provide examples for tests, and see if we can come up with a common set of conformance levels (ONGOING)
15:05:27 <fsasaki> mail on conformance: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JanMar/0133.html
15:05:48 <fsasaki> felix: we might discuss this during the week
15:06:12 <fsasaki> yves: please look at this during the week
15:06:14 <fsasaki> action: all to look at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JanMar/0133.html and give comments
15:06:40 <fsasaki> action: Yves to write a mail for the selector change (DONE)
15:06:49 <fsasaki> felix made the changes in the spec
15:07:11 <fsasaki> action: Sebastian, Yves and Felix to test the usage of the <its:ns> element, to see if it is usefull (DONE)
15:07:34 <fsasaki> Yves: I had some concern, but it seems to be useful
15:08:25 <fsasaki> Felix: I made changes to section 3.4.2 Dislocated Selection on this
15:08:37 <fsasaki> action: Andrzej to start an article about the relations between various standards. (ONGOING)
15:08:45 <fsasaki> Yves: I have a few comments
15:08:56 <fsasaki> .. maybe it was not clear what I or others were expecting
15:09:07 <fsasaki> .. I expected "ITS versus other standards"
15:09:18 <fsasaki> .. your slides are a general overview of standards
15:09:46 <fsasaki> AZ: this is a start of the standards
15:09:56 <fsasaki> Yves: yes, the different formats we have
15:10:06 <fsasaki> AZ: I will continue this in the next weeks
15:10:53 <fsasaki> Christian: From a process point of view:
15:10:53 <fsasaki> .. as you start of creating content for such a text
15:10:53 <fsasaki> .. this type of text was a kind of follow up from the Berlin meeting
15:11:08 <fsasaki> .. that is, then should one use ITS / XLIFF, how do they work together
15:11:11 <fsasaki> .. we need something like that very urgently
15:11:18 <fsasaki> AZ: I could expand on this
15:11:45 <fsasaki> Yves: we need to be careful to spend the time on ITS for the specs
15:12:01 <fsasaki> .. so please manage their time as much as possible
15:12:11 <fsasaki> .. so this action item has not high priority
15:12:35 <fsasaki> AZ: No it is presentation like. I'll continue in the next couple of weeks
15:12:44 <fsasaki> Christian: One detail question:
15:12:58 <fsasaki> .. on "TBX". Is it finished?
15:13:06 <fsasaki> AZ: It is still under discussion
15:13:31 <fsasaki> action: Christian to write a non-normative section on selection, at the beginning of the scope section. (ONGOING)
15:13:54 <fsasaki> Yves: Done and integrated
15:14:02 <fsasaki> Christian: and commeted on it
15:14:17 <fsasaki> .. by Felix
15:14:21 <fsasaki> .. some background:
15:14:54 <fsasaki> .. I would like to integrate the changes which Felix asked for until the next working draft
15:15:10 <fsasaki> Yves: so when should we look at this section?
15:15:54 <fsasaki> Christian: We will continue the discussion
15:16:07 <fsasaki> Felix: o.k. Let's keep the list in the loop
15:16:27 <fsasaki> action: everybody to keep feedback on new sections 3.1 and 3.2, until Friday
15:18:54 <fsasaki> topic: draft document public or not?
15:19:32 <fsasaki> general question: should the draft document be public?
15:19:47 <fsasaki> Yves: should we keep the link public, and have a stronger wording?
15:20:08 <fsasaki> Felix: would be fine with me.
15:22:04 <fsasaki> Yves: people might think that the editor's copy is the final copy
15:22:26 <fsasaki> action: Felix to add a strong statement on the top of the document about "editors" copy
15:22:29 <fsasaki> topic: action items (part 2)
15:22:51 <fsasaki> action: Everybody to read the spec and comment on the spec until the publication date (ONGOING)
15:23:10 <fsasaki> Yves: we need all comments until the next monday
15:23:19 <fsasaki> action: Felix to put up an agenda for the tech plenary f2f. (DONE)
15:24:23 <fsasaki> felix: it is only a first attempt
15:24:27 <fsasaki> .. how about a call?
15:24:42 <fsasaki> Yves: how about the 28th?
15:25:02 <fsasaki> Christian: how about 4 p.m. German time?
15:25:22 <fsasaki> action: Felix to make a telecon schedule with zakim
15:26:21 <fsasaki> Yves: I am fine with the f2f agenda
15:26:32 <fsasaki> .. another question, about the timeline
15:26:39 <fsasaki> topic: timeline for ITS
15:26:53 <fsasaki> Yves: it seems we will not have time for everything in ITS
15:27:02 <YvesS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-its/2006JanMar/0073.html
15:27:06 <fsasaki> we have to choose
15:28:06 <fsasaki> Yves: directionality and translatability are fine
15:28:14 <fsasaki> .. segmentation is important as well, but we don't have much time
15:28:23 <fsasaki> .. we need to have a thought on that quickly
15:28:33 <fsasaki> .. even if we would have to drop  something else
15:28:46 <fsasaki> Christian: so "segmentation" is about identifying inline elements?
15:28:56 <fsasaki> Yves: that is only a part of the topic
15:29:09 <fsasaki> .. in general it is the question "how should things be segmented in an XML document"?
15:29:29 <fsasaki> .. beyond inline there might be subflow elements
15:29:38 <fsasaki> Felix: Yves started a wiki on that
15:29:55 <fsasaki> Yves: yes, and Richard and Martin said the topic covers more than inline versus block
15:30:08 <fsasaki> .. we need to talk about this often in the comming week?
15:30:15 <fsasaki> .. do you agree?
15:30:41 <fsasaki> felix: I agree, but what would you drop?
15:30:46 <fsasaki> Yves: maybe ruby?
15:32:26 <fsasaki> felix: maybe we could try to put it into 1.0, by just referencing the existing ruby stuff
15:33:15 <fsasaki> Yves: I am planning on dropping the constraints
15:33:24 <fsasaki> .. also maybe terminology
15:33:36 <fsasaki> .. because we only can identify terms, that's it
15:33:51 <fsasaki> .. the problem is, it is not sufficient enough for e.g. docbook
15:34:31 <fsasaki> .. it is useful, but maybe we need more
15:34:52 <fsasaki> Christian: we feedback we have so far on terms:
15:35:23 <fsasaki> .. it would be good to have a link to a term base, and (sorry, missed this)
15:36:37 <fsasaki> felix: I would also propose a span-like element
15:36:47 <fsasaki> Yves: dir, trans, seg, term, locinfo, ruby, span-like
15:36:58 <fsasaki> .. these should be in 1.0 of ITS?
15:37:38 <fsasaki> Sebastian: span-like is not a data category, but an extra tool to make use of data categories
15:37:59 <fsasaki> Yves: we would drop the constraints, though
15:38:27 <fsasaki> .. is it necessary to have them in ITS 1.0?
15:38:40 <fsasaki> Sebastian: it is not necessary
15:39:10 <fsasaki> Yves: we should discuss mainly these items and not s.t. else
15:39:33 <fsasaki> topic: action items (part 3)
15:39:50 <fsasaki> action: Owners of the modularizations to keep working on them. (ONGOING)
15:40:08 <fsasaki> Yves: I did s.t., have not sent it to Felix
15:40:33 <fsasaki> Sebastian: I have to put more words into my part
15:40:37 <fsasaki> Yves: how about DITA?
15:40:53 <fsasaki> Christian: I attended the DITA sub TC conference
15:41:17 <fsasaki> topic: call with DITA sub translation meeting
15:41:21 <fsasaki> Yves: we had a call with DITA
15:41:34 <fsasaki> .. we are putting a liaison together with DITA and ITS
15:41:41 <fsasaki> Christian: how is the situation?
15:41:53 <fsasaki> .. we had a meeting with a sub TC of DITA
15:42:08 <fsasaki> .. I am not sure whether this is a regular sub TC of the OASIS formal process
15:42:27 <fsasaki> .. I an wondering about this because if the sub TC is not bound by the OASIS process
15:42:45 <fsasaki> .. some of the issues related to IP seem to be much more complicated
15:43:04 <fsasaki> Yves: I think they are in the process of forming this sub TC
15:43:29 <fsasaki> .. even if we don't participate in those meetings
15:43:45 <fsasaki> .. the DITA committe would review our work
15:44:36 <fsasaki> Christian: one last comment: who wants to participate in the sub committee?
15:45:50 <fsasaki> Yves, Felix: maybe not, only if there is s.t. ITS related
15:46:32 <fsasaki> Yves: last action item ...
15:46:39 <fsasaki> action: Yves to explore constraint support in CSS and possibly contact a CSS guru. (DROPPED)
15:47:45 <fsasaki> topic: assign people to data categories
15:47:53 <fsasaki> Yves: directionality
15:47:59 <fsasaki> .. any pending issue?
15:48:12 <fsasaki> .. I don't think so
15:48:40 <fsasaki> Sebastian: we need implementation examples
15:49:29 <fsasaki> felix: we could check this as the other data categories
15:49:39 <fsasaki> Yves: that is a good idea
15:49:54 <fsasaki> .. visualization related stuff would be difficult
15:51:07 <fsasaki> Sebastian: do we need to validate this?
15:52:16 <fsasaki> Felix: No, we can leave this to the HTML spec. I will implement the selection
15:52:29 <fsasaki> action: Felix to implement the tests for directionality
15:52:56 <fsasaki> sebastian: we need example documents, for all data categories
15:53:19 <fsasaki> Yves: we don't need to assign a person to translatability
15:53:35 <fsasaki> .. segmentation: I will take that one for driving it
15:53:48 <fsasaki> AZ: I would like to work on it too
15:53:56 <fsasaki> Felix: how about doing it together?
15:54:05 <fsasaki> Az, Yves: yes
15:54:11 <fsasaki> Christian: some comments:
15:54:25 <fsasaki> .. we have some easy mechanisms for identifying inline
15:54:32 <fsasaki> .. as Richard said
15:54:48 <fsasaki> .. so it might be good to start from the scratch
15:54:52 <fsasaki> Yves: o.k.
15:54:55 <fsasaki> .. terminology?
15:55:00 <fsasaki> Christian: yes!
15:55:14 <fsasaki> Yves: Localization information
15:55:51 <fsasaki> .. maybe we have solved the problem with the proposal from Felix
15:57:38 <fsasaki> .. described at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-its/2006JanMar/0131.html
15:57:44 <fsasaki> .. I will implement that
15:58:10 <fsasaki> .. I will start an implementation of it
15:58:25 <fsasaki> Sebastian: well, all these things need more examples
15:58:30 <fsasaki> Yves: yes.
15:58:36 <fsasaki> .. ruby will be the next one
15:58:47 <fsasaki> Felix: I will go down that path
15:59:13 <fsasaki> Yves: span like element
15:59:18 <fsasaki> Felix: I will do that too
15:59:52 <fsasaki> Yves: in general:
16:00:34 <fsasaki> .. we need to do work on text, and the examples
16:00:57 <AZ> zakim mute az
16:01:06 <AZ> zakim, mute az
16:01:06 <Zakim> sorry, AZ, I do not see a party named 'az'
16:01:40 <fsasaki> christian: are all examples in the spec valid?
16:01:45 <fsasaki> Yves: I see two aspects:
16:01:52 <fsasaki> .. having short examples is good
16:01:59 <fsasaki> .. we have to make sure if they are valid
16:02:15 <fsasaki> .. one thing we could do is to use always one document
16:02:30 <fsasaki> .. so that we have some continuation for each example
16:02:58 <fsasaki> Christian: I am not sure if it is really possible
16:03:12 <fsasaki> Yves: we have to organize the examples better
16:03:27 <fsasaki> action: Everybody to think of how to organize examples inside and outside the specification
16:03:38 <fsasaki> topic: versioning of ITS
16:03:49 <fsasaki> yves: we need to have a versioning mechanism for ITS
16:03:57 <fsasaki> .. e.g. 1.0 very 2.0
16:04:04 <fsasaki> topic: techniques document
16:04:15 <fsasaki> Yves: I got only a few comments
16:04:22 <fsasaki> .. if you have time, please have a look
16:04:36 <fsasaki> .. the step between the wiki and the document is small
16:04:51 <fsasaki> topic: other topics / business
16:04:51 <fsasaki> Yves: none
16:04:59 <fsasaki> .. next meeting: next week, same time
16:05:11 <fsasaki> .. please comment as much as possible before next monday
16:05:14 <Zakim> -Sebastian_Rahtz
16:05:15 <Zakim> -Andrzej_Zydron
16:05:15 <Zakim> -Christian
16:05:20 <Zakim> -Felix
16:05:24 <Zakim> -Yves_Savourel
16:05:26 <Zakim> I18N_TS()10:00AM has ended
16:05:28 <Zakim> Attendees were Yves_Savourel, Sebastian_Rahtz, [IPcaller], Felix, Christian, Andrzej_Zydron
16:05:30 <fsasaki> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:05:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/02/08-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki
16:05:35 <GoutamSaha> Good Night Everyone
16:12:04 <fsasaki> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:12:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/02/08-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki
16:12:30 <YvesS> YvesS has left #i18nits
16:13:26 <fsasaki> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:13:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/02/08-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki
16:16:41 <fsasaki> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:16:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/02/08-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki
16:32:34 <fsasaki> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:32:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/02/08-i18nits-minutes.html fsasaki
18:17:10 <Zakim> Zakim has left #i18nits