15:50:40 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rif
15:50:40 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/02/07-rif-irc
15:50:44 <sandro> zakim, this will be rif
15:50:44 <Zakim> ok, sandro; I see SW_RIF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 10 minutes
15:51:36 <sandro> sandro has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Feb/0021.html
15:51:44 <holger> holger has joined #rif
15:53:03 <MarkusK> MarkusK has joined #rif
15:53:48 <Hassan> Hassan has joined #rif
15:54:29 <ChrisW> ChrisW has joined #rif
15:54:43 <deepalik> deepalik has joined #rif
15:54:55 <Guizhen> Guizhen has joined #rif
15:55:41 <Zakim> SW_RIF()11:00AM has now started
15:55:48 <Zakim> +Sandro
15:55:53 <FrankMcCabe> FrankMcCabe has joined #rif
15:55:58 <Harold> Harold has joined #rif
15:56:14 <Zakim> +??P2
15:56:21 <csma> csma has joined #rif
15:56:29 <Allen> Allen has joined #rif
15:56:47 <Zakim> +josb
15:56:48 <Zakim> +??P4
15:56:53 <msintek> msintek has joined #rif
15:57:07 <Guizhen> zakim, ??P4 is me.
15:57:07 <Zakim> +Guizhen; got it
15:57:19 <Zakim> +[LMU]
15:57:20 <Guizhen> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:57:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro, ??P2, josb, Guizhen, [LMU]
15:57:26 <Zakim> +fgm
15:57:33 <Zakim> +??P18
15:57:34 <FrankMcCabe> Zakim, fgm is me
15:57:35 <Zakim> +FrankMcCabe; got it
15:57:41 <Deborah_Nichols> Deborah_Nichols has joined #rif
15:57:46 <csma> zakim, ??P18 is me
15:57:46 <Zakim> +csma; got it
15:57:49 <FrankMcCabe> zakim, mute me
15:57:49 <Zakim> FrankMcCabe should now be muted
15:58:01 <csma> zakim, who is on the call?
15:58:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro, ??P2, holger?, Guizhen, PaulaP, FrankMcCabe (muted), csma
15:58:04 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:58:17 <LeoraMorgenstern> LeoraMorgenstern has joined #rif
15:58:21 <sandro> zakim, ??P2 is Hassan
15:58:21 <Zakim> +Hassan; got it
15:58:38 <sandro> I got it, Hassan.
15:58:47 <csma> zakim, ??P2 is Hassan
15:58:47 <Zakim> I already had ??P2 as Hassan, csma
15:58:54 <Zakim> +[IBM]
15:58:56 <ChrisW> zakim, [ibm] is temporarily me
15:58:56 <Zakim> +ChrisW; got it
15:59:15 <Zakim> +??P27
15:59:22 <sandro> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:59:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/02/07-rif-minutes.html sandro
15:59:29 <Zakim> +Deborah_Nichols
15:59:38 <Zakim> +Allen_Ginsberg
15:59:44 <pfps> pfps has joined #rif
15:59:46 <Zakim> +Ora_Lassila
15:59:50 <Allen> zakim, mute me
15:59:50 <Zakim> Allen_Ginsberg should now be muted
16:00:13 <igor> igor has joined #rif
16:00:18 <Zakim> +??P32
16:00:31 <Zakim> -??P27
16:00:34 <pfps> Zakim, ??P32 is pfps
16:00:34 <Zakim> +pfps; got it
16:00:49 <Zakim> +Deepali_Khushraj
16:00:56 <sandro> Meeting: RIF
16:00:58 <Zakim> +[NRCC]
16:01:04 <DonaldC> DonaldC has joined #rif
16:01:08 <AxelPolleres> AxelPolleres has joined #rif
16:01:13 <Zakim> +Evan_Wallace
16:01:13 <sandro> Chair: Christian de Sainte Marie
16:01:17 <Zakim> +Michael_Sintek
16:01:17 <Harold> Zakim, [NRCC] is me
16:01:18 <Zakim> +Harold; got it
16:01:32 <Zakim> +David_Hirtle
16:01:34 <Zakim> + +1.441.224.aaaa
16:01:35 <JeffPan> JeffPan has joined #rif
16:01:38 <Zakim> +??P42
16:01:58 <JeffPan> zakim, ??P42 is me
16:01:58 <Zakim> +JeffPan; got it
16:02:06 <Zakim> + +34.91.488.aabb
16:02:11 <Zakim> + +353208789aacc
16:02:14 <ChrisW> zakim, Michael_Sintek is msintek
16:02:14 <Zakim> +msintek; got it
16:02:23 <msintek> Zakim, mute me
16:02:23 <Zakim> msintek should now be muted
16:02:27 <Zakim> - +353208789aacc
16:03:05 <ChrisW> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:03:05 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro, Hassan (muted), holger? (muted), Guizhen, PaulaP (muted), FrankMcCabe (muted), csma, MarkusK (muted), ChrisW, Deborah_Nichols (muted), Allen_Ginsberg
16:03:07 <sandro> deepalik, ...?
16:03:08 <Zakim> ... (muted), Ora_Lassila, pfps, Deepali_Khushraj (muted), Harold, Evan_Wallace, msintek (muted), +1.441.224.aaaa, David_Hirtle (muted), JeffPan, AxelPolleres
16:03:16 <Guizhen> zakim, mute me.
16:03:16 <Zakim> Guizhen should now be muted
16:03:18 <johnhall> johnhall has joined #rif
16:03:23 <LeoraMorgenstern> I seem to be in the phone call, but not listed as me?
16:03:25 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:03:30 <Guizhen> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:03:30 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro, Hassan (muted), holger? (muted), Guizhen (muted), PaulaP (muted), FrankMcCabe (muted), csma, MarkusK (muted), ChrisW, Deborah_Nichols (muted),
16:03:34 <Zakim> ... Allen_Ginsberg (muted), Ora_Lassila, pfps, Deepali_Khushraj (muted), Harold, Evan_Wallace, msintek (muted), +1.441.224.aaaa, David_Hirtle (muted), JeffPan, AxelPolleres,
16:03:35 <ChrisW> zakim, who is talking?
16:03:39 <Zakim> ... [IPcaller]
16:03:41 <Zakim> +??P11
16:03:46 <Zakim> ChrisW, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Sandro (41%), ??P11 (4%), csma (4%), AxelPolleres (18%)
16:03:54 <Zakim> +Mike_Dean
16:03:56 <DonaldC> zakim, ??P11 is me
16:03:57 <ChrisW> zakim, mute axel
16:04:02 <Zakim> +DonaldC; got it
16:04:04 <Zakim> AxelPolleres should now be muted
16:04:11 <DonaldC> zakim, mute me
16:04:12 <Zakim> +??P26
16:04:16 <Zakim> DonaldC should now be muted
16:04:33 <GiorgosStamou> GiorgosStamou has joined #rif
16:04:41 <LeoraMorgenstern> Since I use a call number, I wonder if I am listed as calling from the 441 area code?
16:04:44 <saidtabet> saidtabet has joined #RIF
16:04:50 <ChrisW> zakim, mute axelPolleres
16:04:52 <Zakim> AxelPolleres was already muted, ChrisW
16:04:53 <LeoraMorgenstern> That is, I don't dial in directly
16:04:57 <sandro> Could be, LeoraMorgenstern.   Try pressing 4 1 #
16:04:59 <ChrisW> zakim, who is talking?
16:04:59 <saidtabet> zakim, mute me
16:05:00 <Zakim> sorry, saidtabet, I do not see a party named 'saidtabet'
16:05:08 <Allen> there is a lot of noise on the line
16:05:10 <sandro> zakim, who is talking?
16:05:11 <Zakim> ChrisW, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: [IPcaller] (54%), csma (34%), JeffPan (24%)
16:05:21 <Zakim> sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: [IPcaller] (19%), csma (78%)
16:05:24 <ChrisW> zakim, mute [ipcaller]
16:05:24 <Zakim> [IPcaller] should now be muted
16:05:28 <saidtabet> zakim, Saidtabet is said_tabet
16:05:29 <JeffPan> zakim, mute me
16:05:30 <Zakim> sorry, saidtabet, I do not recognize a party named 'Saidtabet'
16:05:31 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
16:05:39 <Zakim> JeffPan should now be muted
16:05:41 <GiorgosStoilos> GiorgosStoilos has joined #rif
16:05:42 <saidtabet> zakim, saidtabet is said_tabet
16:05:52 <Zakim> sorry, saidtabet, I do not recognize a party named 'saidtabet'
16:05:52 <LeoraMorgenstern> I'm going to hang up and call again. Maybe that will help figure this out.
16:05:55 <saidtabet> zakim, mute me
16:05:59 <igor> zakim, mute me
16:06:00 <Zakim> +Igor_Mozetic
16:06:01 <johnhall> zakim ipcaller.a is me
16:06:06 <Zakim> sorry, saidtabet, I do not see a party named 'saidtabet'
16:06:08 <Zakim> Igor_Mozetic should now be muted
16:06:10 <Zakim> -JeffPan
16:06:15 <mala> mala has joined #rif
16:06:49 <johnhall> zakim, mute me
16:06:49 <Zakim> sorry, johnhall, I do not see a party named 'johnhall'
16:06:57 <Zakim> - +1.441.224.aaaa
16:07:04 <Zakim> +Leora_Morgenstern
16:07:09 <saidtabet> +saidtabet
16:07:10 <ChrisW> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:07:11 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro, Hassan (muted), holger? (muted), Guizhen (muted), PaulaP (muted), FrankMcCabe (muted), csma, MarkusK (muted), ChrisW, Deborah_Nichols (muted),
16:07:16 <Zakim> ... Allen_Ginsberg (muted), Ora_Lassila, pfps, Deepali_Khushraj, Harold, Evan_Wallace, msintek (muted), David_Hirtle (muted), AxelPolleres (muted), [IPcaller] (muted), DonaldC
16:07:21 <Zakim> ... (muted), Mike_Dean, ??P26, [IPcaller.a], Igor_Mozetic (muted), Leora_Morgenstern
16:07:23 <saidtabet> saidtabet is Said_Tabet
16:07:26 <Zakim> +Guizhen_Yang
16:07:34 <johnhall> zakim [ipcaller] is me
16:07:34 <saidtabet> +saidtabet
16:07:42 <LeoraMorgenstern> zakim, mute me
16:07:42 <Zakim> Leora_Morgenstern should now be muted
16:08:00 <Zakim> +??P21
16:08:03 <johnhall> zakim [ipcaller.a]is me
16:08:11 <sandro> zakim, who is talking?
16:08:12 <JeffPan> zakim, P21 is me
16:08:12 <Zakim> sorry, JeffPan, I do not recognize a party named 'P21'
16:08:16 <csma> ack guizhen
16:08:22 <Zakim> sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: csma (58%), [IPcaller.a] (23%)
16:08:27 <JeffPan> zakim, ??P21 is me
16:08:27 <Zakim> +JeffPan; got it
16:08:27 <sandro> Guizhen, are you on the call?
16:08:33 <Guizhen> yes.
16:08:54 <Zakim> -[IPcaller.a]
16:08:56 <sandro> Mala
16:09:05 <ChrisW> zakim, guizhen is mala
16:09:05 <Zakim> +mala; got it
16:09:13 <Darko> Darko has joined #rif
16:09:28 <sandro> zakim, unmute Guizhen_Yang
16:09:28 <Zakim> Guizhen_Yang was not muted, sandro
16:09:45 <sandro> scibe: Harold
16:09:47 <Guizhen> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:09:47 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro, Hassan (muted), holger? (muted), mala, PaulaP (muted), FrankMcCabe (muted), csma, MarkusK (muted), ChrisW, Deborah_Nichols (muted), Allen_Ginsberg
16:09:51 <Zakim> ... (muted), Ora_Lassila, pfps, Deepali_Khushraj (muted), Harold, Evan_Wallace, msintek (muted), David_Hirtle (muted), AxelPolleres (muted), [IPcaller] (muted), DonaldC (muted),
16:09:54 <Zakim> ... Mike_Dean, ??P26, Igor_Mozetic (muted), Leora_Morgenstern (muted), Guizhen_Yang, JeffPan
16:09:59 <sandro> scribeNick: Harold 
16:10:26 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
16:10:38 <Zakim> +[IVML]
16:10:38 <Guizhen> zakim, mute me.
16:10:38 <Zakim> Guizhen_Yang should now be muted
16:10:38 <PaulaP> +1
16:10:38 <igor> +1
16:10:47 <Harold> Minutes from last week accepted.
16:10:47 <Zakim> ... (muted), Ora_Lassila, pfps, Deepali_Khushraj (muted), Harold, Evan_Wallace, msintek (muted), David_Hirtle (muted), AxelPolleres (muted), [IPcaller] (muted), DonaldC (muted),
16:10:49 <GiorgosStoilos> zakim, [IVML] is me
16:10:49 <Zakim> ... Mike_Dean, ??P26, Igor_Mozetic (muted), Leora_Morgenstern (muted), Guizhen_Yang (muted), JeffPan, [IPcaller.a], [IVML]
16:10:52 <Zakim> +GiorgosStoilos; got it
16:11:25 <JosDeRoo> JosDeRoo has joined #rif
16:11:39 <Allen> zakim. mute me
16:11:46 <johnhall> zakim [ipcaller.a] is johnhall
16:11:49 <Allen> zakim, mute me
16:11:49 <Zakim> Allen_Ginsberg was already muted, Allen
16:12:02 <ChrisW> [CONTINUED] ACTION: csma to ask ISO whether liaison is worthwhile for ISO IEC
16:12:02 <ChrisW> Joint Task Force 1, SC 32, Working Group 2: Metadata Standards US
16:12:02 <ChrisW> national body is ANSI L8 might be interesting for liaison. See
16:12:02 <ChrisW> [http://metadata-standards.org/]
16:12:03 <Harold> csma has not received answer from Ed Barkm., so action CONTINUED.
16:12:36 <DonaldC> zakim, unmute me
16:12:36 <Zakim> DonaldC should no longer be muted
16:12:45 <Harold> Said's action wrt a JSR94 email is DONE.
16:12:57 <Zakim> +Jos_De_Roo
16:12:57 <DaveReynolds> DaveReynolds has joined #rif
16:13:04 <csma> q?
16:13:10 <johnhall> zakimmute me
16:13:12 <DonaldC> zakim, mute me
16:13:12 <Zakim> DonaldC should now be muted
16:13:15 <Zakim> +??P51
16:13:18 <csma> ack jeff
16:13:27 <johnhall> zakim, mute me
16:13:27 <Zakim> sorry, johnhall, I do not see a party named 'johnhall'
16:13:32 <Darko> Zakim, +??P51 is me
16:13:32 <Zakim> sorry, Darko, I do not recognize a party named '+??P51'
16:13:40 <Zakim> +??P52
16:13:44 <JosDeRoo> Zakim, Jos_De_Roo is me
16:13:44 <Zakim> +JosDeRoo; got it
16:13:46 <ChrisW> [CONTINUED] ACTION: csma to ask ISO whether liaison is worthwhile for ISO IEC Joint Task Force 1, SC 32, Working Group 2: Metadata Standards US national body is ANSI L8 might be interesting for liaison. See [http://metadata-standards.org/]
16:13:51 <Darko> Zakim,  +??P52 is me
16:13:51 <Zakim> sorry, Darko, I do not recognize a party named '+??P52'
16:13:52 <saidtabet> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:13:53 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro (muted), Hassan (muted), holger? (muted), mala, PaulaP (muted), FrankMcCabe (muted), csma, MarkusK (muted), ChrisW, Deborah_Nichols (muted),
16:13:56 <JosDeRoo> Zakim, mute me
16:13:56 <Zakim> ... Allen_Ginsberg (muted), Ora_Lassila, pfps, Deepali_Khushraj (muted), Harold, Evan_Wallace, msintek (muted), David_Hirtle (muted), AxelPolleres (muted), [IPcaller] (muted),
16:14:01 <Zakim> JosDeRoo should now be muted
16:14:02 <Zakim> ... DonaldC (muted), Mike_Dean, ??P26, Igor_Mozetic (muted), Leora_Morgenstern (muted), Guizhen_Yang (muted), JeffPan, [IPcaller.a], GiorgosStoilos, JosDeRoo, ??P51, ??P52
16:14:08 <DaveReynolds> \me zakim, ??P52 is me
16:14:32 <Zakim> +Giorgos_Stamou
16:14:32 <csma> q?
16:14:40 <Darko> Zakim, ??P51 is me
16:14:40 <Zakim> +Darko; got it
16:14:51 <Allen> zakim, unmute me
16:14:51 <Zakim> Allen_Ginsberg should no longer be muted
16:15:02 <Harold> 3. UCR
16:15:04 <Darko> Zakim, mute me
16:15:04 <Zakim> Darko should now be muted
16:15:05 <LeoraMorgenstern> q+
16:15:05 <GiorgosStamou> zakim, please mute
16:15:08 <Zakim> I don't understand 'please mute', GiorgosStamou
16:15:15 <LeoraMorgenstern> zakim, unmute me
16:15:15 <Zakim> Leora_Morgenstern should no longer be muted
16:15:18 <PaulaP> q?
16:15:19 <GiorgosStamou> Zakim, mute me
16:15:20 <Zakim> Giorgos_Stamou should now be muted
16:16:06 <ChrisW> ACTION: csma to ask ISO whether liaison is worthwhile for ISO IEC Joint Task Force 1, SC 32, Working Group 2: Metadata Standards US national body is ANSI L8 might be interesting for liaison. See [http://metadata-standards.org/] [CONTINUED]
16:16:07 <csma> ack leora
16:16:43 <Harold> Leora and JeffP have action human-oriented CONTINUED.
16:16:44 <ChrisW> ACTION: Said to send a message to JSR94 that the RIF has started its work [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/31-rif-minutes.html#action02] [DONE]
16:16:57 <Harold> ChrisW action CONTINUED.
16:17:04 <LeoraMorgenstern> zakim,  mute me
16:17:04 <Zakim> Leora_Morgenstern should now be muted
16:17:10 <PhilippeB> PhilippeB has joined #rif
16:17:28 <StanDevitt> StanDevitt has joined #rif
16:17:29 <csma> q?
16:17:30 <ChrisW> ACTION:* Leora, JeffP to review and report on human oriented rules section of UCR, sending e-mail by friday. [CONTINUED]
16:17:39 <Harold> csma proposed new section on publication: DONE.
16:17:50 <ChrisW> ACTION:* Stan to review and report on human oriented rules section of UCR, sending e-mail by friday. [DONE]
16:17:57 <Zakim> +Gary_Hallmark
16:18:16 <ChrisW> ACTION:* Chris Welty will come up with another example narrative for a RichKR use case [CONTINUED]
16:18:23 <Zakim> +??P55
16:18:23 <Harold> "What belongs to RIF vs. OWL/RDF?" DONE.
16:18:27 <Zakim> +[Agfa]
16:18:37 <csma> q?
16:18:41 <ChrisW> ACTION:* Christian will propose another scenario for the publication use case [CONTINUED]
16:18:41 <FrankMcCabe> zakim, unmute me
16:18:41 <Zakim> FrankMcCabe should no longer be muted
16:18:48 <PhilippeB> zakim, ??P55 is me
16:18:49 <Zakim> I already had ??P55 as StanDevitt, PhilippeB
16:19:31 <Zakim> -StanDevitt
16:19:34 <FrankMcCabe> ed was not aware that he was supposed to be helping!
16:19:35 <ChrisW> ACTION:* Christian will start an email discussion on "What part of the RIF vs. OWL/RDF Compatibility belongs to RIF and what part belong to OWL/RDF" [DONE]
16:19:40 <Harold> Frank info integr action is CONTINUED since Ed was not available.
16:19:43 <FrankMcCabe> I will contact him again this week.
16:19:54 <FrankMcCabe> zakim, mute me
16:19:54 <Zakim> FrankMcCabe should now be muted
16:20:01 <ChrisW> ACTION:* Frank will do the scenarios for information integration with Ed Barkmeyer assisting [CONTINUED]
16:20:12 <Zakim> +??P55
16:20:17 <GaryHallmark> GaryHallmark has joined #rif
16:20:38 <PhilippeB> zakim, ??p55 is me
16:20:38 <Zakim> +PhilippeB; got it
16:20:46 <PhilippeB> zakim, mute me
16:20:46 <Zakim> PhilippeB should now be muted
16:20:56 <csma> q?
16:20:57 <PaulaP> Paul is on the call, but not on irc
16:21:18 <csma> zakim, who is on the call?
16:21:18 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro, Hassan (muted), holger? (muted), mala, PaulaP (muted), FrankMcCabe (muted), csma, MarkusK (muted), ChrisW, Deborah_Nichols (muted), Allen_Ginsberg,
16:21:21 <Zakim> ... Ora_Lassila, pfps, Deepali_Khushraj (muted), Harold, Evan_Wallace, msintek (muted), David_Hirtle, AxelPolleres (muted), [IPcaller] (muted), DonaldC (muted), Mike_Dean, ??P26,
16:21:25 <Zakim> ... Igor_Mozetic (muted), Leora_Morgenstern (muted), Guizhen_Yang (muted), JeffPan, [IPcaller.a], GiorgosStoilos, JosDeRoo (muted), Darko (muted), DaveReynolds (muted),
16:21:28 <Zakim> ... Giorgos_Stamou (muted), Gary_Hallmark, [Agfa], PhilippeB (muted)
16:21:42 <ChrisW> ACTION:* Paul Vincent will do the detailed scenario for "Interoperability between rule engines" [CONTINUED]
16:21:56 <Harold> PaulV scenario for Interop between rule engines is currently evaluated by Allen & David, because only sent 10 mins before call: CONTINUED.
16:22:01 <StanDevitt> StanDevitt has joined #rif
16:22:02 <Darko> ok no probelm
16:22:09 <csma> q?
16:22:26 <Harold> Discussion on state of document.
16:22:39 <sandro> RRSAgent, make minutes
16:22:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/02/07-rif-minutes.html sandro
16:22:50 <FrankMcCabe> zakim, [ipcaller.c] may be johnhall
16:22:50 <Zakim> sorry, FrankMcCabe, I do not understand your question
16:22:57 <Harold> David: Recent input. Condensed subsections for each general uc category.
16:23:28 <sandro> zakim, who is talking?
16:23:39 <Zakim> sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Allen_Ginsberg (25%), David_Hirtle (77%)
16:23:54 <Harold> Publication not changed much, since only 2 uc's were there; now with csma more complete.
16:24:01 <johnhall> never mind who's talking. Who's playing the violin
16:24:13 <Harold> Other subsections are being condensed.
16:24:22 <Zakim> -[IPcaller.a]
16:24:41 <csma> q?
16:25:38 <Zakim> +John_Hall
16:25:44 <johnhall> zakim, mute me
16:25:44 <Zakim> John_Hall should now be muted
16:25:46 <Harold> Allen: Credit scenario (2.4) changed; have a look at that.
16:26:05 <ircleuser> ircleuser has joined #rif
16:26:15 <Harold> q+
16:26:19 <ircleuser> ircleuser has left #rif
16:26:22 <DonaldC> zakim, unmute me
16:26:22 <Zakim> DonaldC should no longer be muted
16:26:30 <csma> q?
16:27:25 <Harold> ACTION: Donald, Said, John: Scenario where R
16:27:34 <Harold> IF enters the play.
16:27:41 <csma> ack harold
16:27:51 <DonaldC> zakim, mute me
16:27:51 <Zakim> DonaldC should now be muted
16:27:53 <sandro> Present: Allen_Ginsberg AxelPolleres ChrisW Darko DaveReynolds David_Hirtle Deborah_Nichols Deepali_Khushraj DonaldC Evan_Wallace FrankMcCabe Gary_Hallmark GiorgosStamou GiorgosStoilos Mala Guizhen_Yang HaroldBoley Hassan Igor_Mozetic JeffPan JosDeRoo LeoraMorgenstern MarkusK Michael_Sintek Mike_Dean Ora_Lassila PaulaP PhilippeB StanDevitt csma  HohnHall  pfps SaidTabet SandroHawke JosDeBruijn HolgerLausen 
16:28:08 <sandro> RRSAgent, make minutes
16:28:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/02/07-rif-minutes.html sandro
16:28:13 <sandro> q+
16:28:50 <ChrisW> [ACTION] Donal, Said, John: provide scenario for human-oriented use case showing where RIF is used
16:28:59 <sandro> ack sandro
16:29:01 <csma> ack sandro
16:29:12 <Harold> Harold: When omitting larger portions of material, can it still be linked?
16:29:12 <ChrisW> ACTION: Donal, Said, John: provide scenario for human-oriented use case showing where RIF is used
16:29:27 <ChrisW> rrsagent, withdraw action 10
16:29:27 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'withdraw action 10', ChrisW.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:29:35 <ChrisW> rrsagent, remove action 10
16:29:35 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'remove action 10', ChrisW.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:29:38 <Harold> David: Difficult, if final document should be self-contained.
16:29:45 <ChrisW> rrsagent, you are a moron
16:29:45 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'you are a moron', ChrisW.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:29:46 <csma> q?
16:30:13 <Harold> Sandro: Perhaps no technical/organizational/editorial problem to provide links.
16:30:41 <Harold> csma: Stand-alone has advantages.
16:31:09 <Harold> csma: If you think something valuable was omitted, say it now or soon.
16:32:10 <csma> q?
16:32:28 <Harold> Allen: With the many changesr/restructuring it was hard to keep all links at all times (just to work at one place); they can be brought back on one of the uc pages.
16:32:59 <Harold> Allen: ... so people would still find them; could also contain reqs etc.
16:33:35 <Harold> Allen: ... but would be separate from main document.
16:33:36 <sandro> ack sandro
16:34:21 <PaulV> PaulV has joined #rif
16:34:45 <Harold> Sandro: Not sure what you exactly mean. But yes, we can still bring links back later.
16:36:16 <Harold> csma: People should offer ways to insert what they want to have in. Better than just linking to things.
16:36:51 <Harold> csma: We should have all material now. Can we have a new draft soon?
16:38:34 <Harold> Allen: Waiting only for above-mentioned uc explanation wrt RIF.
16:39:30 <Harold> David: Unless we enumerate all indiv. reqs, we can not see global req; so iterative process needed.
16:39:37 <Zakim> -Mike_Dean
16:40:03 <Harold> David: Allen and I don't see exact distinction between desing goals and reqs.
16:40:27 <csma> q?
16:40:48 <Harold> Allen: Ties in with discussion on what RIF is and isn't.
16:41:51 <Harold> csma: Should RIF be executable
16:42:02 <Harold> for instance.
16:43:05 <Harold> Allen: Right. Partly motivated by OWL's UCR document: "What's an ontology?".
16:43:11 <csma> q?
16:43:19 <Zakim> -Deepali_Khushraj
16:43:52 <josb> josb has joined #rif
16:43:56 <ChrisW> the owl docuemtn says what is an ontology, then the RIF document shoudl say what is a rule
16:43:56 <FrankMcCabe> I think that the design goals for the RIF is something that should be figured out by the whol group
16:44:23 <ChrisW> not what is a RIF
16:44:34 <Harold> Allen: Peter and Francois want to see RIF be executable, which is fine. But: What about interchange between overlapping languages -- we need a discussion, 
16:44:34 <ChrisW> (just looking at the analogy)
16:45:03 <saidtabet> how about the analogy with HTML and HTTP? Language versus Protocol
16:45:21 <PaulV> PaulV has joined #rif
16:45:33 <pfps> Hmm, I wouldn't say that my "requirement" is that the RIF be executable - however, forbidding it from being executable is not something that I can sign on to.
16:45:38 <Harold> csma: Discussion not easy on the telecon. Mailing list discussion is unfolding well. Will need to come to conclusion at one point.
16:46:31 <Harold> csma: Are there any other issues that need come in? E.g.: Data access, linked to issue of query languages.
16:47:31 <Harold> ACTION: csma will incite this broader discussion on mailing list.
16:47:59 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
16:48:16 <Harold> David: Should we have an action for everyone look over what we have?
16:48:20 <sandro> zakim, mute josb
16:48:20 <Zakim> josb should now be muted
16:48:37 <sandro> you were kind of noisy, josb.
16:48:44 <Harold> csma: Prefer, next week someone to summarize consensus on design goals.
16:48:59 <josb> sorry, sandro
16:49:03 <sandro> no problem.
16:49:09 <sandro> (just explaining why I muted you)
16:50:11 <josb> anyway, thx for muting me :)
16:50:13 <sandro> zakim, who is here?
16:50:13 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro, Hassan (muted), holger? (muted), mala, PaulaP (muted), FrankMcCabe (muted), csma, MarkusK (muted), ChrisW, Deborah_Nichols (muted), Allen_Ginsberg,
16:50:16 <Zakim> ... Ora_Lassila, pfps, Harold, Evan_Wallace, msintek (muted), David_Hirtle, AxelPolleres (muted), [IPcaller] (muted), DonaldC (muted), ??P26, Igor_Mozetic (muted),
16:50:20 <Zakim> ... Leora_Morgenstern (muted), Guizhen_Yang (muted), JeffPan, GiorgosStoilos, JosDeRoo (muted), Darko (muted), DaveReynolds (muted), Giorgos_Stamou (muted), Gary_Hallmark (muted),
16:50:25 <Zakim> ... [Agfa], PhilippeB (muted), John_Hall (muted), josb (muted)
16:50:28 <Zakim> On IRC I see PaulV, josb, StanDevitt, GaryHallmark, PhilippeB, DaveReynolds, JosDeRoo, Darko, mala, GiorgosStoilos, saidtabet, GiorgosStamou, johnhall, JeffPan, AxelPolleres,
16:50:32 <Zakim> ... DonaldC, igor, pfps, LeoraMorgenstern, Deborah_Nichols, msintek, Allen, csma, Harold, FrankMcCabe, Guizhen, ChrisW, Hassan, MarkusK, holger, RRSAgent, Zakim, sandro,
16:50:34 <Zakim> ... EvanWallace, PaulaP, David_Hirtle, mdean
16:50:48 <Harold> Allen: People who say RIF should be executable, what do they think this means for interchange/interop? Maybe executability supports interchange/interop.
16:51:47 <Harold> csma: People with high-level design goals should propose them on mailing list.
16:52:03 <DonaldC> zakim, unmute me
16:52:03 <Zakim> DonaldC should no longer be muted
16:52:53 <Harold> David: Would be nice to have backlinks from reqs to uc's.
16:53:26 <Zakim> -Leora_Morgenstern
16:53:37 <PaulaP> requirements from the original use cases or from the categories?
16:53:43 <Harold> csma: Who could copy all req sections from all uc's into one document for next week?
16:53:56 <PaulaP> I can do that
16:54:29 <Zakim> +??P0
16:54:32 <Harold> ACTION: Paula will do this, removing duplicates if time permits.
16:54:34 <csma> q?
16:54:55 <PaulaP> ok
16:55:04 <LeoraMorgenstern> \me Sorry, got disconnected and had to reconnect
16:55:19 <DonaldC> zakim, mute me
16:55:19 <Zakim> DonaldC should now be muted
16:55:24 <LeoraMorgenstern> P0 is LeoraMorgenstern
16:55:27 <Harold> Donald: Will bring in new reqs by posting/email.
16:55:41 <ChrisW> ACTION: Paula to copy all requirements from original use cases into a single place, removing duplicates and pointing back to originals
16:55:47 <csma> q?
16:55:52 <ChrisW> rrsagent, drop action 13
16:55:55 <LeoraMorgenstern> zakim, mute me
16:55:55 <Zakim> LeoraMorgenstern should now be muted
16:55:58 <PaulaP> q+
16:56:06 <PaulaP> zakim, unmute me
16:56:06 <Zakim> PaulaP should no longer be muted
16:56:09 <csma> ack paula
16:56:49 <Zakim> -FrankMcCabe
16:56:51 <Allen> zakim, mute me
16:56:51 <Zakim> Allen_Ginsberg should now be muted
16:56:59 <Harold> David: Paula, put it at the 'source' section to begin with.
16:57:13 <ChrisW> ACTION:* Harold will explain what Lloyd Topor extensions etc mean [DONE]
16:58:04 <Harold> ChrisW: Fine, DONE.
16:58:59 <Harold> ChrisW: Discussion RIFRAF and uc's
16:59:24 <Harold> ChrisW: Which parts are relevant for phase 1.
17:00:09 <Harold> ChrisW: Example: bNodes -- one idea is going beyond Horn logic: so is it not phase 1?
17:00:45 <Zakim> -Ora_Lassila
17:01:27 <Zakim> -holger?
17:01:57 <Harold> ChrisW: Answer to "What goes int phase 1 / phase 2?" is not crisp.
17:02:29 <Zakim> + +1.408.460.aadd - is perhaps holger?
17:02:31 <josb> should we have a mailing list discussion on this topic: which features belong to phase 1
17:02:34 <Zakim> -holger?
17:02:43 <Harold> ChirsW: So we need to decide, as a group, that we will or will not deal with some issues in the 1st year.
17:03:24 <Harold> csma: What is the impact of phase 1 / 2 on rule interchange reqs?
17:03:36 <Zakim> + +1.408.460.aaee - is perhaps holger?
17:03:55 <Harold> csma: Prioritized list?
17:03:59 <Guizhen> zakim, aaee is me.
17:03:59 <Zakim> sorry, Guizhen, I do not recognize a party named 'aaee'
17:04:03 <Harold> ChrisW: Yes.
17:04:28 <Guizhen> zakim, aaee is me.
17:04:28 <Zakim> sorry, Guizhen, I do not recognize a party named 'aaee'
17:04:33 <Zakim> -josb
17:05:08 <sandro> ack sandro
17:05:15 <Harold> csma: Should we add "phase 1 / 2" column to List of Systems?
17:05:26 <Harold> ChrisW: Yes.
17:05:33 <DaveReynolds> +1 to Sandro
17:05:49 <Harold> Sandro: Procedurally, ask if all understand what people's action is?
17:05:54 <PaulaP> +1 to Sandro' comment
17:06:02 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/List_of_Rule_Systems
17:06:53 <Harold> csma: For people who have entered a system, they should enter what the phase 1 / 2 impact is. Interop impact?
17:07:29 <Harold> Sandro: Hard to imagine how to have impact beyond Horn.
17:08:16 <sandro> s/Hard to imagine how to have impact beyond Horn./Hard to imagine they wouldn't all have non-Horn features/
17:09:29 <Harold> csma: Example: Translated JRules a few examples into logic notation
17:10:21 <Harold> Chris: Will start this action.
17:10:39 <csma> q?
17:10:54 <ChrisW> ACTION: Chris to start email discussion about what issues are "fuzzy" wrt phase 1 & 2
17:11:00 <ChrisW> ACTION: JosDeBruijn create a wiki page explaining the issue with bNode semantics and summarize the possible solutions which have come up during the discussions on the mailing listat Lloyd Topor extensions etc mean  [DONE]
17:11:08 <Harold> 4. OWL & RDF Compatibility
17:11:46 <sandro> JosB's page: http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/bNode_Semantics
17:11:57 <Harold> csma: E.g., when you discuss bNodes in the head, you should say why it's important for interchange.
17:12:06 <josb> apologies, my connection is failing me
17:12:07 <Zakim> -[Agfa]
17:12:34 <Zakim> -Giorgos_Stamou
17:12:41 <Harold> ChrisW: Josb action is DONE.
17:13:15 <csma> q?
17:13:20 <Harold> Sandro: Don't see anything time-critical here -- cannot go to far ahead of design discussion.
17:13:30 <sandro> s/to far/too far/
17:13:37 <MarkusK> ACTION 17 = JosDeBruijn create a wiki page explaining the issue with bNode semantics and summarize the possible solutions which have come up during the discussions on the mailing list [DONE]
17:13:50 <DonaldC> zakim, unmute me
17:13:50 <Zakim> DonaldC should no longer be muted
17:14:53 <Harold> csma: Question of interchange of human-oriented syntax related to OWL & RDF: Could you use write terms and facts in OWL & RDF?
17:15:58 <DonaldC> zakim, mute me
17:15:58 <Zakim> DonaldC should now be muted
17:16:14 <sandro> ack sandro
17:16:32 <Harold> Donald (and Said): Yes, will disuss OWL & RDF applicability for human-oriented uc.
17:17:34 <Harold> Sandro: bNode action can be removed from future agendas, but people can of course still bring in any new aspects about this.
17:18:21 <Harold> Sandro: At some point will come up again as a design decision when we have to make a choice.
17:18:28 <josb> +1
17:18:32 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/F2F2
17:18:59 <saidtabet> thanks Sandro!
17:19:07 <Harold> Sandro: 2F2F is coming up. 24 people are registered so far; expect another 15 or so.
17:19:30 <Harold> csma: Will publish agenda and documents soon.
17:19:36 <sandro> s/2F2F/F2F2/
17:20:25 <Zakim> -GiorgosStoilos
17:20:28 <Harold> Mainly UCR document.
17:20:46 <AxelPolleres> q+
17:21:42 <PaulaP> q?
17:21:50 <Zakim> -PhilippeB
17:22:02 <csma> ack axel
17:22:09 <Harold> Harold: Uniform notation for dates: yyyy-mm-dd?
17:22:09 <sandro> year-month-day as on http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/Telecons
17:22:59 <csma> q?
17:23:04 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, mute me
17:23:04 <Zakim> AxelPolleres should now be muted
17:23:09 <sandro> +1
17:23:12 <saidtabet> +1
17:23:12 <PaulaP> +1
17:23:14 <holger> +1
17:23:16 <sandro> (re adjourning)
17:23:17 <Zakim> -Guizhen_Yang
17:23:18 <Zakim> -Evan_Wallace
17:23:20 <Zakim> -DaveReynolds
17:23:22 <Zakim> -holger?.a
17:23:23 <Zakim> -Gary_Hallmark
17:23:24 <Zakim> -John_Hall
17:23:25 <Zakim> -Igor_Mozetic
17:23:26 <Zakim> -Sandro
17:23:27 <Allen> exit
17:23:28 <Zakim> -msintek
17:23:30 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
17:23:31 <Zakim> -DonaldC
17:23:35 <Darko> -Darko
17:23:36 <Zakim> -David_Hirtle
17:23:37 <PaulaP> bye
17:23:38 <Allen> quit
17:23:40 <Guizhen> bye
17:23:40 <Zakim> -AxelPolleres
17:23:41 <Allen> bye
17:23:44 <Guizhen> Guizhen has left #rif
17:23:47 <Zakim> -LeoraMorgenstern
17:23:48 <igor> bye
17:23:48 <Zakim> -mala
17:23:52 <Zakim> -Deborah_Nichols
17:23:54 <msintek> msintek has left #rif
17:23:54 <Zakim> -holger?
17:23:55 <Zakim> -PaulaP
17:23:55 <Zakim> -JeffPan
17:23:56 <Zakim> -pfps
17:23:57 <Zakim> -Allen_Ginsberg
17:24:02 <Darko> rrsagent, create minutes
17:24:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/02/07-rif-minutes.html Darko
17:24:04 <ChrisW> rrsagent, format minutes
17:24:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/02/07-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
17:24:11 <csma> zakim, who is on the call?
17:24:11 <Zakim> On the phone I see Hassan (muted), csma, MarkusK (muted), ChrisW, Harold, JosDeRoo (muted), Darko (muted)
17:24:14 <Zakim> -Hassan
17:24:24 <ChrisW> rrsagent, make logs visible
17:24:35 <ChrisW> rrsagent, make logs public
17:25:14 <ChrisW> rrsagent, leave
17:25:14 <RRSAgent> I see 15 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/07-rif-actions.rdf :
17:25:14 <RRSAgent> ACTION: csma to ask ISO whether liaison is worthwhile for ISO IEC Joint Task Force 1, SC 32, Working Group 2: Metadata Standards US national body is ANSI L8 might be interesting for liaison. See [http://metadata-standards.org/] [CONTINUED] [1]
17:25:14 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/07-rif-irc#T16-16-06
17:25:14 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Said to send a message to JSR94 that the RIF has started its work [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/31-rif-minutes.html#action02] [DONE] [2]
17:25:14 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/07-rif-irc#T16-16-44
17:25:14 <RRSAgent> ACTION: * Leora, JeffP to review and report on human oriented rules section of UCR, sending e-mail by friday. [CONTINUED] [3]
17:25:14 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/07-rif-irc#T16-17-30
17:25:14 <RRSAgent> ACTION: * Stan to review and report on human oriented rules section of UCR, sending e-mail by friday. [DONE] [4]
17:25:14 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/07-rif-irc#T16-17-50
17:25:14 <RRSAgent> ACTION: * Chris Welty will come up with another example narrative for a RichKR use case [CONTINUED] [5]
17:25:14 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/07-rif-irc#T16-18-16
17:25:14 <RRSAgent> ACTION: * Christian will propose another scenario for the publication use case [CONTINUED] [6]
17:25:14 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/07-rif-irc#T16-18-41
17:25:14 <RRSAgent> ACTION: * Christian will start an email discussion on "What part of the RIF vs. OWL/RDF Compatibility belongs to RIF and what part belong to OWL/RDF" [DONE] [7]
17:25:14 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/07-rif-irc#T16-19-35
17:25:14 <RRSAgent> ACTION: * Frank will do the scenarios for information integration with Ed Barkmeyer assisting [CONTINUED] [8]
17:25:14 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/07-rif-irc#T16-20-01
17:25:14 <RRSAgent> ACTION: * Paul Vincent will do the detailed scenario for "Interoperability between rule engines" [CONTINUED] [9]
17:25:14 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/07-rif-irc#T16-21-42
17:25:14 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Donal, Said, John: provide scenario for human-oriented use case showing where RIF is used [11]
17:25:14 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/07-rif-irc#T16-29-12-1
17:25:14 <RRSAgent> ACTION: csma will incite this broader discussion on mailing list. [12]
17:25:14 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/07-rif-irc#T16-47-31
17:25:14 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Paula to copy all requirements from original use cases into a single place, removing duplicates and pointing back to originals [14]
17:25:14 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/07-rif-irc#T16-55-41
17:25:14 <RRSAgent> ACTION: * Harold will explain what Lloyd Topor extensions etc mean [DONE] [15]
17:25:14 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/07-rif-irc#T16-57-13
17:25:14 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Chris to start email discussion about what issues are "fuzzy" wrt phase 1 & 2 [16]
17:25:14 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/07-rif-irc#T17-10-54
17:25:14 <RRSAgent> ACTION: JosDeBruijn create a wiki page explaining the issue with bNode semantics and summarize the possible solutions which have come up during the discussions on the mailing list [DONE] [17]
17:25:14 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/07-rif-irc#T17-11-00
17:25:17 <Darko> -Darko
17:25:24 <Zakim> -Darko