20:34:52 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ws-addr
20:34:52 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/02/06-ws-addr-irc
20:35:16 <bob> zakim, this will be ws_addrwg
20:35:16 <Zakim> ok, bob; I see WS_AddrWG()4:00PM scheduled to start in 25 minutes
20:35:51 <bob> Meeting: Web Services Addressing WG Teleconference
20:36:20 <bob> Chair: Bob Freund
20:39:58 <bob> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-addressing/2006Feb/0021.html
20:43:00 <pauld> pauld has joined #ws-addr
20:53:00 <Gil> Gil has joined #ws-addr
20:53:07 <Zakim> WS_AddrWG()4:00PM has now started
20:53:14 <Zakim> +Bob_Freund
20:53:36 <Bozhong> Bozhong has joined #ws-addr
20:53:38 <David_Illsley> David_Illsley has joined #ws-addr
20:54:50 <agupta> agupta has joined #ws-addr
20:55:04 <Jonathan> Jonathan has joined #ws-addr
20:56:54 <Nilo> Nilo has joined #ws-addr
20:57:30 <Zakim> +Gilbert_Pilz
20:58:20 <Zakim> +David_Illsley
20:58:32 <Zakim> +Hugo
20:58:33 <Zakim> +[Sun]
20:58:44 <Zakim> -Hugo
20:58:49 <Zakim> +Hugo
20:59:14 <Zakim> +Mark_Little
20:59:38 <TRutt> TRutt has joined #ws-addr
20:59:47 <Zakim> +Andreas_Bjarlestam
21:00:29 <Zakim> +Vikas_Deolaliker
21:00:44 <Zakim> +Nilo
21:01:23 <Zakim> +Tom_Rutt
21:01:28 <vikas> vikas has joined #ws-addr
21:01:36 <Zakim> +Jonathan_Marsh
21:01:49 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
21:02:02 <prasad> prasad has joined #ws-Addr
21:02:02 <Katy> Katy has joined #ws-addr
21:02:43 <Zakim> +Prasad_Yendluri
21:02:47 <Paco> Paco has joined #ws-addr
21:02:58 <bob> zakim ipcaller is blin
21:03:01 <Zakim> +[IBM]
21:03:16 <hugo> Zakim, [IPcaller] is Blin
21:03:16 <Zakim> +Blin; got it
21:03:44 <andreas> andreas has joined #ws-addr
21:03:47 <Bozhong> Bozhong has joined #ws-addr
21:03:48 <Zakim> +Mark_Peel/Katy_Warr
21:04:08 <TonyR> TonyR has joined #ws-addr
21:04:21 <bob> Zakim, [IBM] is paco
21:04:21 <Zakim> +paco; got it
21:04:27 <Katy> mute Katy
21:04:58 <Zakim> +Pete_Wenzel
21:05:11 <Zakim> +??P17
21:05:13 <anish> anish has joined #ws-addr
21:05:15 <Zakim> +??P18
21:05:26 <Katy> zakim, mute Katy
21:05:26 <Zakim> sorry, Katy, I do not see a party named 'Katy'
21:06:04 <Zakim> +Anish
21:06:37 <uyalcina> uyalcina has joined #ws-addr
21:07:26 <uyalcina> zakim, ??p18 is uyalcina
21:07:26 <Zakim> +uyalcina; got it
21:07:43 <bob> Scribe: Gil
21:08:07 <Zakim> +Paul_Knight
21:08:17 <Gil> Bob: agenda bashing
21:08:33 <Gil> Bob: F2F planning around Cannes
21:08:33 <PaulKnight> PaulKnight has joined #ws-addr
21:08:58 <hugo> RRSAgent, make log public
21:09:14 <anish> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-addressing/2006Feb/0021.html
21:09:52 <bob> http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/addr/6/01/30-ws-addr-minutes.html>
21:10:13 <Gil> TOPIC: review and accept last minutes (no objections)
21:10:28 <Gil> TOPIC: Review action items <http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/addr/admin#actionitems>
21:11:35 <Gil> Johnathan: would like to keep "2005-11-28: i059" open
21:12:11 <Gil> TOPIC: Proposed and New Issues
21:12:13 <anish> q+
21:12:33 <Gil> Mark Hadley raised a concern with side effects of resoulution to cr17
21:12:42 <Gil> Mark is not on the call
21:12:49 <agupta> q+
21:13:18 <Gil> Anish: wonders if David Orchard will be presenting a re-worded issue?
21:13:48 <Gil> Bob: I haven't seen the revised proposal. I will contact David about that.
21:14:01 <Jonathan> ack agupta
21:14:03 <Zakim> +Dave_Hull
21:14:16 <bob> ack anish
21:14:21 <Zakim> +??P21
21:14:22 <bob> q?
21:14:31 <pauld> zakim, ??P21 is me
21:14:31 <Zakim> +pauld; got it
21:14:47 <bob> ok
21:15:18 <TRutt> q+
21:16:21 <yinleng> yinleng has joined #ws-addr
21:17:55 <bob> ack trutt
21:18:09 <bob> q?
21:18:21 <hugo> ack tr
21:18:24 <Zakim> +??P22
21:19:00 <yinleng> zakim, ??P22 is me
21:19:00 <Zakim> +yinleng; got it
21:19:23 <agupta> I see it correctly though
21:19:36 <Gil> All: Agreed that we should defer this discussion until Mark is on the call.
21:19:54 <anish> s/Mark/Marc/
21:20:43 <Zakim> +GlenD
21:21:33 <Gil> TOPIC: does Mark's issue impact our ability to take the WSDL Binding document to last call?
21:21:33 <GlenD> GlenD has joined #ws-addr
21:22:39 <TRutt> q+
21:22:43 <Gil> Kay, Umit, and Jonathan speak in favor of taking WSDL Binding doc to last call
21:22:47 <bob> q?
21:22:50 <dhull> q?
21:22:51 <anish> +1 to getting to LC quickly
21:22:58 <uyalcina> s/Kay/Katy/
21:23:18 <anish> s/Mark/Marc/
21:24:13 <bob> ack trutt
21:24:15 <Gil> Tom doesn't mind going to LC if this issue doesn't effect markup
21:24:37 <psd> psd has joined #ws-addr
21:25:05 <Gil> RESOLUTION: take the WSDL Binding document to LC
21:25:47 <Zakim> -Mark_Little
21:26:05 <Gil> TOPIC: cr18
21:26:22 <anish> http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/addr/cr-issues/#cr18
21:26:57 <dhull> q+
21:27:06 <bob> q?
21:27:11 <anish> we have 2 proposed resolutions: one from DavidH and one from Paco
21:27:50 <Paco> q+
21:28:30 <bob> d hull's proposal: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-addressing/2006Feb/0024.html
21:28:57 <TRutt> q+
21:29:09 <bob> ack dhull
21:29:37 <anish> q+ to ask a clarification on dhull's proposal
21:29:41 <uyalcina> q+
21:30:00 <pauld> q+
21:30:30 <bob> Paco's proposals: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-addressing/2006Feb/0025.html
21:30:38 <bob> q?
21:30:43 <bob> ack paco
21:31:30 <dhull> q+
21:32:00 <anish> q-
21:32:35 <bob> ack trutt
21:32:43 <Jonathan> q+
21:33:16 <anish> so, immediatedestination talks about the next hop, whereas wsa:To talks about the 'final destination'
21:33:42 <anish> if this is correct, then saying that anon means immediatedestination would not be right.
21:33:56 <bob> q?
21:34:29 <bob> ack uy
21:35:04 <dhull> q+ to say that anonymous won't work for multi-hop
21:36:25 <bob> ack paul
21:36:56 <anish> david, I *think* i understand what you mean (about anon and multi-hop)
21:37:30 <bob> q?
21:37:34 <anish> since anon is defined by the binding, and bindings address MEPs which define what immediatedestination is, we are ok
21:37:37 <anish> is that roughly right
21:37:47 <bob> ack dhull
21:37:47 <Zakim> dhull, you wanted to say that anonymous won't work for multi-hop
21:37:57 <Katy> q+
21:38:27 <bob> q?
21:38:37 <bob> ack j
21:39:11 <anish> q+ to see if there was any support to make [destination] optional
21:40:50 <bob> zakim, who is here?
21:40:50 <Zakim> On the phone I see Bob_Freund, Gilbert_Pilz, David_Illsley, [Sun], Hugo, Andreas_Bjarlestam (muted), Vikas_Deolaliker, Nilo (muted), Tom_Rutt, Jonathan_Marsh, Blin,
21:40:53 <Zakim> ... Prasad_Yendluri, paco, Mark_Peel/Katy_Warr, Pete_Wenzel, TonyR, uyalcina, Anish, Paul_Knight, Dave_Hull, pauld, yinleng, GlenD
21:40:56 <Zakim> On IRC I see GlenD, yinleng, PaulKnight, uyalcina, anish, TonyR, Bozhong, andreas, Paco, Katy, prasad, vikas, TRutt, Nilo, Jonathan, agupta, David_Illsley, Gil, pauld, RRSAgent,
21:40:58 <Zakim> ... Zakim, bob, dhull, hugo
21:41:01 <pauld> i made the appoint that option#3 clarifies the status quo, adding semantics to an anonymous To will impact at least one implementation good enough to participate in CR testing and would therefore be a "substantive change"
21:41:19 <bob> ack kat
21:41:28 <pauld> s/appoint/point/
21:41:59 <bob> ack ani
21:41:59 <Zakim> anish, you wanted to see if there was any support to make [destination] optional
21:42:46 <GlenD> +1 to making it optional
21:43:32 <dhull> FWIW: Option 4 is at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-addressing/2006Feb/0026.html, option 4' is at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-addressing/2006Feb/0028.html
21:43:45 <bob> q?
21:43:45 <Jonathan> -1
21:45:09 <dhull> q+
21:45:37 <uyalcina> q+
21:45:38 <GlenD> Destination is tricky, because that gets into dispatch ideas.  Don't make assumptions.
21:46:14 <GlenD> i.e some bindings/implementations don't need a WSAddressing [destination] property, just done by the transport
21:46:55 <uyalcina> my concern is if it is not mandatory, we would have to define when we need it. I have a problem with that. 
21:46:58 <bob> ack dh
21:47:17 <bob> q+
21:47:28 <uyalcina> I hate contextual semantics. 
21:47:35 <GlenD> Why would you need to define when you need it?  You have an EPR, either from a WSDL or from another message.  If that EPR tells you to put in a <to>, you do it.  If not, don't.
21:48:09 <GlenD> If the <soap:address> is sufficient, then you don't need <wsa:To>, right?
21:48:09 <vikas> anonymous destination could mean "Hey DNS find me the nearest Gateway"
21:48:16 <anish> another discomfort I have is that we define the default in the core (which is anon) and don't say what it means
21:48:28 <bob> ack uy
21:48:31 <bob> q?
21:48:45 <bob> ack bob
21:48:48 <GlenD> ah, I guess there's always an <Address> in an EPR, eh?
21:48:49 <dhull> +1 to discomfort over undefined defaults
21:49:42 <anish> q+
21:50:18 <bob> q?
21:51:37 <bob> ack ani
21:54:03 <dhull> q+
21:54:38 <bob> 4' http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-addressing/2006Feb/0028.html
21:54:48 <chad> chad has joined #ws-addr
21:55:08 <dhull> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-addressing/2006Feb/0026.html
21:55:51 <bob> opt 33. Middle of the road approach: retain the defaulting of the To header to 
21:55:51 <bob> > anonymous, but re-state that its use is actually dependent on the 
21:55:51 <bob> > interpretation that the transport binding gives to the anonymous URI. Add a 
21:55:51 <bob> > note indicating that for the SOAP/HTTP case the anonymous URI is only used 
21:55:51 <bob> > to indicate the use of the HTTP back channel so it can only be used in 
21:55:52 <bob> > reply messages. 
21:56:06 <pauld> s/opt 33/opt 3/
21:56:31 <pauld> chad, question approaches for finality of this issue
21:57:07 <pauld> chad, question: options for CR18
21:57:36 <pauld> chad, question: options for CR18 and CR20
21:57:54 <pauld> chad, option 1: option 1
21:58:00 <pauld> chad, option 2: option 2
21:58:05 <pauld> chad, option 3: option 3
21:58:37 <Jonathan> chad, option 3: Paco's option 3:
21:58:46 <anish> option 4': make [destination] optional and remove defaulting to anon
21:59:29 <Jonathan> chad, option 3': Paco's option 3 but limited to SOAP 1.1
22:00:15 <TonyR> chad, list options
22:00:16 <dhull> option 4: use ImmediateDestination where defined (request at the least), InboundMessage for response.  Special case SOAP1.1/HTTP as per Paco's 3.
22:00:31 <bob> opt 3: Middle of the road approach: retain the defaulting of the To header to 
22:00:31 <bob> > anonymous, but re-state that its use is actually dependent on the 
22:00:31 <bob> > interpretation that the transport binding gives to the anonymous URI. Add a 
22:00:31 <bob> > note indicating that for the SOAP/HTTP case the anonymous URI is only used 
22:00:31 <bob> > to indicate the use of the HTTP back channel so it can only be used in 
22:00:32 <bob> > reply messages. 
22:00:38 <Jonathan> chad, option 3: Paco's option 3:
22:00:55 <Jonathan> chad option 3a: Paco's option 3 but for SOAP 1.1 only.
22:01:19 <Jonathan> chad, option 3a: Paco's option 3 but for SOAP 1.1 only.
22:01:23 <pauld> chad, options?
22:01:31 <Jonathan> chad, drop option 1
22:01:56 <Jonathan> chad, drop option 2
22:02:09 <dhull> chad, options?
22:02:15 <Jonathan> chad, option 4a: make [destionation] optional and remove defaulting to anon
22:02:31 <Jonathan> chad, option 4: DaveH's
22:02:45 <Jonathan> chad, option 4: Use SOAP 1.2 ImmediateDestination property
22:02:52 <Jonathan> chad, options?
22:02:53 <anish> chad, list options
22:02:56 <dhull> "use SOAP f&p"
22:03:20 <dhull> chad, options?
22:03:35 <pauld> vote: 3
22:03:37 <GlenD> vote: 4a, 4, 3a
22:03:37 <dhull> vote: 4
22:03:46 <uyalcina> vote: 3
22:03:46 <Jonathan> vote: 3
22:03:48 <David_Illsley> vote: 3
22:03:48 <Paco> vote: 3
22:03:48 <vikas> vote: 4
22:03:53 <anish> vote: 4a
22:03:55 <TRutt> vote: 3, 4a
22:03:56 <Gil> vote: 4a, 4, 3a
22:03:58 <Katy> vote: 3
22:04:02 <bob> vote 3
22:04:06 <TonyR> vote: 4a, 3
22:04:07 <dhull> vote: 4, 3a
22:04:11 <agupta> vote: 4a
22:04:17 <Nilo> 4a, 3a, 3
22:04:21 <hugo> vote: 4, 4a, 3, 3a
22:04:23 <PaulKnight> 3, 4a
22:04:35 <PaulKnight> vote: 3. 4a
22:04:58 <PaulKnight> vote: 3,4a
22:05:06 <pauld> chad, count
22:05:06 <chad> Question: options for CR18 and CR20
22:05:06 <chad>     Option 3: Paco's option 3: (8)
22:05:06 <chad>     Option 3a: Paco's option 3 but for SOAP 1.1 only. (0)
22:05:06 <chad>     Option 4: Use SOAP 1.2 ImmediateDestination property (3)
22:05:06 <chad>     Option 4a: make [destionation] optional and remove defaulting to anon (5)
22:05:07 <chad> 16 voters: agupta (4a) , anish (4a) , David_Illsley (3) , dhull (4, 3a) , Gil (4a, 4, 3a) , GlenD (4a, 4, 3a) , hugo (4, 4a, 3, 3a) , Jonathan (3) , Katy (3) , Paco (3) , pauld (3) , PaulKnight (3, 4a) , TonyR (4a, 3) , TRutt (3, 4a) , uyalcina (3) , vikas (4) 
22:05:11 <chad> Round  1: Count of first place rankings.
22:05:13 <chad> Round  2: First elimination round.
22:05:16 <chad>           Eliminating candidadates without any votes.
22:05:17 <Nilo> 4a, 3a, 3
22:05:17 <chad>           Eliminating candidate 3a.
22:05:19 <chad> Round  3: Eliminating candidate 4.
22:05:22 <chad> Round  4: Eliminating candidate 4a.
22:05:23 <chad>           Candidate 3 is elected.
22:05:25 <chad> Winner is option 3 - Paco's option 3:
22:05:46 <Nilo> vote: 4a, 3a, 3
22:05:46 <anish> vote: nilo: 4a, 3a, 3
22:05:57 <pauld> chad, count
22:05:57 <chad> Question: options for CR18 and CR20
22:05:57 <chad>     Option 3: Paco's option 3: (8)
22:05:57 <chad>     Option 3a: Paco's option 3 but for SOAP 1.1 only. (0)
22:05:57 <chad>     Option 4: Use SOAP 1.2 ImmediateDestination property (3)
22:05:57 <chad>     Option 4a: make [destionation] optional and remove defaulting to anon (7)
22:05:58 <chad> 18 voters: agupta (4a) , anish (4a) , David_Illsley (3) , dhull (4, 3a) , Gil (4a, 4, 3a) , GlenD (4a, 4, 3a) , hugo (4, 4a, 3, 3a) , Jonathan (3) , Katy (3) , Nilo (4a, 3a, 3) , nilo (4a, 3a, 3) , Paco (3) , pauld (3) , PaulKnight (3, 4a) , TonyR (4a, 3) , TRutt (3, 4a) , uyalcina (3) , vikas (4) 
22:06:02 <chad> Round  1: Count of first place rankings.
22:06:04 <chad> Round  2: First elimination round.
22:06:07 <chad>           Eliminating candidadates without any votes.
22:06:08 <chad>           Eliminating candidate 3a.
22:06:10 <chad> Round  3: Eliminating candidate 4.
22:06:12 <chad> Round  4: Tie when choosing candidate to eliminate.
22:06:14 <chad>           Tie at round 3 between 3, 4a.
22:06:16 <chad>           Candidate 4a has the fewest votes at round 2.
22:06:18 <chad>           Eliminating candidate 4a.
22:06:20 <chad>           Candidate 3 is elected.
22:06:22 <chad> Winner is option 3 - Paco's option 3:
22:06:33 <anish> chad, details?
22:06:49 <pauld> vote: Nilo: abstain
22:10:19 <andreas1> andreas1 has joined #ws-addr
22:13:47 <TRutt> q+
22:15:23 <bob> ack dh
22:15:30 <bob> ack tr
22:16:09 <uyalcina> q+
22:16:13 <dhull> q+
22:16:25 <dhull> q-
22:16:37 <anish> q+
22:17:45 <bob> ack uy
22:18:02 <bob> ack an
22:18:03 <dhull> q+
22:20:07 <bob> ack dh
22:20:11 <Paco> q+
22:21:13 <anish> q+
22:21:50 <uyalcina> +1 to JM
22:21:59 <TRutt> q+
22:23:09 <bob> q?
22:24:09 <bob> ack pac
22:25:11 <pauld> want's to clarify, there are no longer any anonymous, or missing To's in the test suite
22:25:31 <Zakim> -Gilbert_Pilz
22:25:55 <bob> q?
22:26:01 <Zakim> +Gilbert_Pilz
22:26:04 <dhull> q+
22:26:10 <GlenD> I think 4a solves the problem in a better way, and I'd prefer that <To> still be allowed to be missing.  Not all implementations need deal with that, of course.
22:27:25 <uyalcina> q+
22:27:27 <GlenD> We don't actually have to say what anonymous means in <To> at all, just like we don't say what foo:something/or/other means as a <To>
22:27:50 <bob> ack ani
22:28:01 <uyalcina> i disagree Glen. With 4a, you still need to allow/disallow wsa:To anonymous for a request message for SOAP/HTTP
22:28:10 <bob> ack tr
22:28:10 <GlenD> Why?
22:28:17 <uyalcina> you have not solved the problem at all with 4a
22:29:19 <GlenD> Anonymous has special meaning for a response EPR (ReplyTo, FaultTo).  Outside that context, we don't have to say anything, just like we don't say anything in particular about OTHER URIs.
22:30:03 <GlenD> i.e. if your implementation asks for a <To> with a particular URI, it's up to you to understand it.
22:30:36 <uyalcina> i am sorry, undefined stuff do not do it for me. The reason we have cr18 is because we have an undefined situation
22:30:55 <Gil> ACTION: Anish to put 4a into "crisp text"
22:31:01 <TRutt> yes
22:31:22 <Gil> Bob: intent is to clarify differences between 3 and 4a and vote next week
22:31:28 <dhull> q?
22:31:33 <uyalcina> q-
22:31:43 <bob> q?
22:32:04 <bob> ack dhull
22:36:30 <pauld> dispatching can happen on whatever you want
22:37:11 <TRutt> Some implementations do not make the http post url available at the soap level
22:37:17 <pauld> action, GED, if it's raining, which advert you prefered in the superbowl .. whatever
22:38:00 <TRutt> q=
22:38:02 <GlenD> +1 pauld
22:38:03 <TRutt> Q+
22:38:09 <TRutt> q+
22:38:33 <Gil> TOPIC: administrivia - next F2F after Cannes
22:38:49 <anish> i agree too that dispatching can happen on whatever you want
22:39:43 <Gil> Bob: last week in April or first week in May
22:39:52 <Gil> Tom Rutt: would prefer first week in May
22:39:59 <Gil> jinx
22:41:05 <anish> oasis symp. is in San Fran
22:42:28 <Zakim> -Vikas_Deolaliker
22:42:30 <Zakim> -Jonathan_Marsh
22:42:31 <Zakim> -paco
22:42:31 <Gil> ADJORN
22:42:32 <Zakim> -Paul_Knight
22:42:33 <Zakim> -Hugo
22:42:34 <Zakim> -Anish
22:42:35 <Zakim> -GlenD
22:42:36 <Zakim> -David_Illsley
22:42:37 <Zakim> -uyalcina
22:42:38 <Zakim> -Tom_Rutt
22:42:39 <Zakim> -yinleng
22:42:41 <Zakim> -Bob_Freund
22:42:42 <TonyR> s/ADJORN/ADJOURN/
22:42:43 <Zakim> -Prasad_Yendluri
22:42:45 <Zakim> -TonyR
22:42:47 <Zakim> -Mark_Peel/Katy_Warr
22:42:49 <Zakim> -Andreas_Bjarlestam
22:42:51 <Zakim> -Pete_Wenzel
22:42:51 <TonyR> TonyR has left #ws-addr
22:42:53 <Zakim> -Nilo
22:42:55 <Zakim> -pauld
22:42:57 <Zakim> -Gilbert_Pilz
22:42:57 <Gil> Gil has left #ws-addr
22:42:58 <yinleng> yinleng has left #ws-addr
22:43:46 <bob> rrsagent, make logs public
22:44:01 <bob> rrsagent, generate minutes
22:44:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/02/06-ws-addr-minutes.html bob
22:44:18 <Zakim> -Blin
22:44:40 <Zakim> -Dave_Hull
22:56:45 <Jonathan> Jonathan has left #ws-addr
22:59:47 <Zakim> -[Sun]
22:59:49 <Zakim> WS_AddrWG()4:00PM has ended
22:59:51 <Zakim> Attendees were Bob_Freund, Gilbert_Pilz, David_Illsley, Hugo, [Sun], Mark_Little, Andreas_Bjarlestam, Vikas_Deolaliker, Nilo, Tom_Rutt, Jonathan_Marsh, Prasad_Yendluri, Blin,
22:59:53 <Zakim> ... Mark_Peel/Katy_Warr, paco, Pete_Wenzel, TonyR, Anish, uyalcina, Paul_Knight, Dave_Hull, pauld, yinleng, GlenD
23:00:09 <agupta> agupta has left #ws-addr