IRC log of ua on 2006-02-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

18:57:15 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/02/02-ua-irc
18:57:33 [JR]
Scribe: JR
18:57:35 [scribe]
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18:57:57 [JR]
Meeting: WAI UA
18:58:19 [JR]
Chair: Jim Allan
19:01:12 [Al]
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19:01:25 [JR]
hi Al
19:02:21 [scribe]
Hi All, I am on the phone
19:02:57 [cklaws]
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19:03:44 [scribe]
* al how do I not be scribe?
19:03:51 [scribe]
this is jim
19:10:44 [jallan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cdf/2006Jan/0068.html
19:11:28 [JR]
WAI last call comments on CDF, WICD, WICD Full, WICD Mobile, WICD Core
19:11:45 [JR]
Topic: WAI last call comments on CDF, WICD, WICD Full, WICD Mobile, WICD Core
19:12:17 [JR]
JA: Now seems to read MathML
19:12:26 [JR]
DP: Because Jaws now reads unicode
19:13:16 [JR]
CL: IBM has done an internal WindowEyes and Firefox report
19:15:04 [JR]
DP: Firefox now behaving much more like IE with Jaws.
19:16:48 [JR]
JA: Waiting for Al to join.
19:17:05 [JR]
JA: Al wants our input on Accesskey doc
19:18:04 [JR]
JA: UA Comments on Compound Docs combined with PF comments and submitted.
19:18:36 [JR]
JA: We'll need some compound doc test cases: SVG, MathMl etc.
19:19:39 [JR]
JR: Opera 8 has native SVG support
19:19:57 [JR]
Topic: Other business from CG
19:20:35 [dpoehlman]
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19:21:23 [JR]
JA: Networking opportunities with other groups.
19:21:56 [JR]
Topic: Screen Readers and Firefox
19:22:13 [JR]
Aaron: Jaws not ready for FF
19:22:36 [JR]
Aaron: no official support for several months
19:24:54 [JR]
Aaron: We have done WindowEyes and FF, but with bugs filed for FF
19:25:24 [JR]
Aaron: Check out bug 24413 in bugzilla for FF (have uaag in title)
19:26:08 [JR]
Aaron: Some other bugs - look for "uaag"
19:26:33 [JR]
Aaron: FF on Mac is not very accessible - because Mac readers son't use DOM?
19:27:28 [JR]
Aaron: 2 probs - (1) uses Carbon instead of Coco (2) nobody has signed up for Mac access.
19:27:35 [JR]
for FF
19:27:47 [JR]
Because Safari is so big on Mac
19:29:00 [JR]
JA: SVG?
19:29:15 [JR]
Aaron: Yes there is some native support for SVG in FF?
19:29:21 [JR]
rem ?
19:30:59 [JR]
JA: In compound docs there was questions about passing focus into and out of different types of content ALSO sub links
19:32:00 [Al]
Zakim, code?
19:32:00 [Zakim]
sorry, Al, I don't know what conference this is
19:32:09 [Al]
Zakim, this is WAI_U
19:32:09 [Zakim]
ok, Al; that matches WAI_UAWG()2:00PM
19:32:20 [Al]
Zakim, call AlGilman-home, please
19:32:20 [Zakim]
ok, Al; the call is being made
19:32:21 [Zakim]
+AlGilman
19:33:23 [JR]
Aaron: Using depth first search on layout object tree.
19:33:48 [JR]
Aaron: Some things are focussable, but not tabable (e.g. items in a drop down list)
19:34:08 [JR]
Topic: Accesskeys with Al
19:34:24 [jallan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2006JanMar/0016.html
19:35:22 [JR]
Al: The HCG recognizes Accesskeys are problematic but desirable...
19:35:39 [JR]
XHTML2 is coming up with a replacement.
19:36:06 [JR]
Al: we're supposed to bring use case to them next Friday.
19:36:28 [JR]
Al: Mobile phone people also interested in accesskeys.
19:37:57 [JR]
Al: Latest statement - there has to be a label - needs to be discoverable
19:39:10 [JR]
Al: Users would prefer to set their own mnemonics but MUST be able to access it somehow.
19:40:08 [JR]
Al: Overall, we're not taking a strong position.
19:40:56 [JR]
Al: But there are "firm requirements"
19:41:32 [JR]
JA: On user side the user simply needs to be able to found out what the keys are and what they do.
19:42:09 [JR]
Al: but in larger scheme, to capture mode apps to the web shortcut capability should be increased.
19:42:50 [JR]
Aaron: Can we give weight to pros and cons in "debatable" area
19:44:43 [JR]
JA: "Discoverable" requirement should be dug out and put at the top
19:46:01 [JR]
Al: Label is an operational model - must work like a label on a form control
19:47:21 [JR]
DP: Might feel better about author assignment if two paths - author specifies method of activation vs. generic method of activation
19:49:09 [JR]
AL: I need to add in authoring guidance that there is a preference for binding keys to roles when there is a relevant role already.
19:50:27 [JR]
Al: Use rel=home to identify a link that goes home---then browser is smart enough to interpret "h" keypress as meaning user wants to go home (ie.e. press that link)
19:51:23 [JR]
DP: Author trying to come up with way to activate non-standard things..
19:51:59 [JR]
maybe easier to provide trigger and let user agent handle putting keys to triggers.
19:52:18 [JR]
Al: Loses all mnemonics
19:53:02 [JR]
Al: It's a tugofwar
19:53:51 [JR]
CL: Problem: HTML accesskeys --combines mnemonics with sahortcuts - these should be different.
19:54:19 [JR]
MMnemonics need to appear in label, shortcuts are different.
19:56:16 [JR]
CL: e.g. in chrome menu items, an underlined character is the mnemonic
19:58:24 [JR]
Al: In reqs it must be somehow discoverable.
19:59:20 [JR]
AL: IG - why not just mark the letter eg. with tag wrapping a key ---but T2speech chokes on that
20:00:30 [JR]
JA: What about negotiation...
20:01:49 [JR]
Al: Onscreen keyboards can process accesskeys, so can screen readers, could be a browser feature
20:03:15 [JR]
JA: What about authors who put the key in the title?
20:03:56 [JR]
Al: The UA's need to start showing access keys somehow - e.g. on mouseover, tabbing, etc.
20:06:03 [JR]
Action Al: Will modify reqs to add "discoverable" and author should bind access keys to available roles.
20:07:24 [JR]
JA: on this timeslot next week will be a special meeting on the Mobile Web Berst Practices
20:07:39 [JR]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-mobile-bp-20060113/
20:07:58 [Zakim]
-Aaron_Leventhal
20:08:54 [JR]
Action JR: Review for AU and send to JA.
20:09:03 [JR]
Action JA: Review for UA
20:09:09 [Zakim]
-[IBM]
20:10:00 [Zakim]
-DPoehlman
20:10:02 [Zakim]
-Jan_Richards
20:10:06 [Zakim]
-Jim_Allan
20:10:18 [Zakim]
-AlGilman
20:10:18 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()2:00PM has ended
20:10:18 [Zakim]
Attendees were Jim_Allan, [IBM], Jan_Richards, DPoehlman, Aaron_Leventhal, AlGilman
20:11:23 [jallan]
rrsagent, set logs world-visible
20:11:45 [jallan]
rrsagent, draft minutes
20:11:54 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/02/02-ua-minutes.html jallan
20:13:52 [Al]
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