IRC log of ua on 2006-02-02
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 18:57:15 [RRSAgent]
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- 18:57:15 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/02/02-ua-irc
- 18:57:33 [JR]
- Scribe: JR
- 18:57:35 [scribe]
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- 18:57:57 [JR]
- Meeting: WAI UA
- 18:58:19 [JR]
- Chair: Jim Allan
- 19:01:12 [Al]
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- 19:01:25 [JR]
- hi Al
- 19:02:21 [scribe]
- Hi All, I am on the phone
- 19:02:57 [cklaws]
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- 19:03:44 [scribe]
- * al how do I not be scribe?
- 19:03:51 [scribe]
- this is jim
- 19:10:44 [jallan]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cdf/2006Jan/0068.html
- 19:11:28 [JR]
- WAI last call comments on CDF, WICD, WICD Full, WICD Mobile, WICD Core
- 19:11:45 [JR]
- Topic: WAI last call comments on CDF, WICD, WICD Full, WICD Mobile, WICD Core
- 19:12:17 [JR]
- JA: Now seems to read MathML
- 19:12:26 [JR]
- DP: Because Jaws now reads unicode
- 19:13:16 [JR]
- CL: IBM has done an internal WindowEyes and Firefox report
- 19:15:04 [JR]
- DP: Firefox now behaving much more like IE with Jaws.
- 19:16:48 [JR]
- JA: Waiting for Al to join.
- 19:17:05 [JR]
- JA: Al wants our input on Accesskey doc
- 19:18:04 [JR]
- JA: UA Comments on Compound Docs combined with PF comments and submitted.
- 19:18:36 [JR]
- JA: We'll need some compound doc test cases: SVG, MathMl etc.
- 19:19:39 [JR]
- JR: Opera 8 has native SVG support
- 19:19:57 [JR]
- Topic: Other business from CG
- 19:20:35 [dpoehlman]
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- 19:21:23 [JR]
- JA: Networking opportunities with other groups.
- 19:21:56 [JR]
- Topic: Screen Readers and Firefox
- 19:22:13 [JR]
- Aaron: Jaws not ready for FF
- 19:22:36 [JR]
- Aaron: no official support for several months
- 19:24:54 [JR]
- Aaron: We have done WindowEyes and FF, but with bugs filed for FF
- 19:25:24 [JR]
- Aaron: Check out bug 24413 in bugzilla for FF (have uaag in title)
- 19:26:08 [JR]
- Aaron: Some other bugs - look for "uaag"
- 19:26:33 [JR]
- Aaron: FF on Mac is not very accessible - because Mac readers son't use DOM?
- 19:27:28 [JR]
- Aaron: 2 probs - (1) uses Carbon instead of Coco (2) nobody has signed up for Mac access.
- 19:27:35 [JR]
- for FF
- 19:27:47 [JR]
- Because Safari is so big on Mac
- 19:29:00 [JR]
- JA: SVG?
- 19:29:15 [JR]
- Aaron: Yes there is some native support for SVG in FF?
- 19:29:21 [JR]
- rem ?
- 19:30:59 [JR]
- JA: In compound docs there was questions about passing focus into and out of different types of content ALSO sub links
- 19:32:00 [Al]
- Zakim, code?
- 19:32:00 [Zakim]
- sorry, Al, I don't know what conference this is
- 19:32:09 [Al]
- Zakim, this is WAI_U
- 19:32:09 [Zakim]
- ok, Al; that matches WAI_UAWG()2:00PM
- 19:32:20 [Al]
- Zakim, call AlGilman-home, please
- 19:32:20 [Zakim]
- ok, Al; the call is being made
- 19:32:21 [Zakim]
- +AlGilman
- 19:33:23 [JR]
- Aaron: Using depth first search on layout object tree.
- 19:33:48 [JR]
- Aaron: Some things are focussable, but not tabable (e.g. items in a drop down list)
- 19:34:08 [JR]
- Topic: Accesskeys with Al
- 19:34:24 [jallan]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2006JanMar/0016.html
- 19:35:22 [JR]
- Al: The HCG recognizes Accesskeys are problematic but desirable...
- 19:35:39 [JR]
- XHTML2 is coming up with a replacement.
- 19:36:06 [JR]
- Al: we're supposed to bring use case to them next Friday.
- 19:36:28 [JR]
- Al: Mobile phone people also interested in accesskeys.
- 19:37:57 [JR]
- Al: Latest statement - there has to be a label - needs to be discoverable
- 19:39:10 [JR]
- Al: Users would prefer to set their own mnemonics but MUST be able to access it somehow.
- 19:40:08 [JR]
- Al: Overall, we're not taking a strong position.
- 19:40:56 [JR]
- Al: But there are "firm requirements"
- 19:41:32 [JR]
- JA: On user side the user simply needs to be able to found out what the keys are and what they do.
- 19:42:09 [JR]
- Al: but in larger scheme, to capture mode apps to the web shortcut capability should be increased.
- 19:42:50 [JR]
- Aaron: Can we give weight to pros and cons in "debatable" area
- 19:44:43 [JR]
- JA: "Discoverable" requirement should be dug out and put at the top
- 19:46:01 [JR]
- Al: Label is an operational model - must work like a label on a form control
- 19:47:21 [JR]
- DP: Might feel better about author assignment if two paths - author specifies method of activation vs. generic method of activation
- 19:49:09 [JR]
- AL: I need to add in authoring guidance that there is a preference for binding keys to roles when there is a relevant role already.
- 19:50:27 [JR]
- Al: Use rel=home to identify a link that goes home---then browser is smart enough to interpret "h" keypress as meaning user wants to go home (ie.e. press that link)
- 19:51:23 [JR]
- DP: Author trying to come up with way to activate non-standard things..
- 19:51:59 [JR]
- maybe easier to provide trigger and let user agent handle putting keys to triggers.
- 19:52:18 [JR]
- Al: Loses all mnemonics
- 19:53:02 [JR]
- Al: It's a tugofwar
- 19:53:51 [JR]
- CL: Problem: HTML accesskeys --combines mnemonics with sahortcuts - these should be different.
- 19:54:19 [JR]
- MMnemonics need to appear in label, shortcuts are different.
- 19:56:16 [JR]
- CL: e.g. in chrome menu items, an underlined character is the mnemonic
- 19:58:24 [JR]
- Al: In reqs it must be somehow discoverable.
- 19:59:20 [JR]
- AL: IG - why not just mark the letter eg. with tag wrapping a key ---but T2speech chokes on that
- 20:00:30 [JR]
- JA: What about negotiation...
- 20:01:49 [JR]
- Al: Onscreen keyboards can process accesskeys, so can screen readers, could be a browser feature
- 20:03:15 [JR]
- JA: What about authors who put the key in the title?
- 20:03:56 [JR]
- Al: The UA's need to start showing access keys somehow - e.g. on mouseover, tabbing, etc.
- 20:06:03 [JR]
- Action Al: Will modify reqs to add "discoverable" and author should bind access keys to available roles.
- 20:07:24 [JR]
- JA: on this timeslot next week will be a special meeting on the Mobile Web Berst Practices
- 20:07:39 [JR]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-mobile-bp-20060113/
- 20:07:58 [Zakim]
- -Aaron_Leventhal
- 20:08:54 [JR]
- Action JR: Review for AU and send to JA.
- 20:09:03 [JR]
- Action JA: Review for UA
- 20:09:09 [Zakim]
- -[IBM]
- 20:10:00 [Zakim]
- -DPoehlman
- 20:10:02 [Zakim]
- -Jan_Richards
- 20:10:06 [Zakim]
- -Jim_Allan
- 20:10:18 [Zakim]
- -AlGilman
- 20:10:18 [Zakim]
- WAI_UAWG()2:00PM has ended
- 20:10:18 [Zakim]
- Attendees were Jim_Allan, [IBM], Jan_Richards, DPoehlman, Aaron_Leventhal, AlGilman
- 20:11:23 [jallan]
- rrsagent, set logs world-visible
- 20:11:45 [jallan]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 20:11:54 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/02/02-ua-minutes.html jallan
- 20:13:52 [Al]
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- 21:30:05 [dpoehlman]
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- 22:13:12 [jallan]
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