15:52:17 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rif
15:52:17 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/01/31-rif-irc
15:52:23 <FrankMcCabe> zakim, this is rif
15:52:23 <Zakim> ok, FrankMcCabe; that matches SW_RIF()11:00AM
15:53:59 <ericP> ericP has joined #rif
15:54:33 <EvanWallace> EvanWallace has joined #rif
15:56:08 <Allen> Allen has joined #rif
15:56:10 <josb> josb has joined #rif
15:56:47 <Zakim> +[IBM]
15:56:57 <ChrisWelty> zakim, [ibm] is temporarily me
15:56:57 <Zakim> +ChrisWelty; got it
15:57:06 <ChrisWelty> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:57:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro, ChrisWelty
15:57:11 <Zakim> +[NRCC]
15:57:35 <Zakim> +JacekK
15:57:41 <csma> csma has joined #rif
15:57:56 <ChrisWelty> zakim, [nrcc] is temporarily HaroldB
15:57:56 <Zakim> +HaroldB; got it
15:57:59 <Zakim> +Allen_Ginsberg
15:58:10 <holger> holger has joined #rif
15:58:16 <ugo> ugo has joined #rif
15:58:23 <Deborah_Nichols> Deborah_Nichols has joined #rif
15:58:26 <Allen> zakim, mute me
15:58:26 <Zakim> Allen_Ginsberg should now be muted
15:58:36 <sandro> RRSAgent, pointer?
15:58:36 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2006/01/31-rif-irc#T15-58-36
15:58:43 <sandro> RRSAgent, make log public
15:58:46 <Zakim> + +1.435.125.aaaa
15:58:54 <Darko> zakim, aaaa is me
15:58:54 <Zakim> +Darko; got it
15:59:04 <Zakim> +PaulaP
15:59:12 <Zakim> +Deborah_Nichols
15:59:25 <Zakim> +Evan_Wallace
15:59:28 <MarkusK> MarkusK has joined #rif
15:59:33 <igor> igor has joined #rif
15:59:42 <Zakim> +josb.a
15:59:50 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:59:55 <Zakim> +hirtle
15:59:57 <Zakim> +Ugo_Corda
16:00:10 <David_Hirtle> zakim, hirtle is me
16:00:10 <Zakim> +David_Hirtle; got it
16:00:37 <Zakim> +??P9
16:00:40 <msintek> msintek has joined #rif
16:00:58 <Zakim> + +33.6.80.06.aabb
16:01:09 <csma> zakim, aabb is me
16:01:09 <Zakim> +csma; got it
16:01:15 <DonaldC> DonaldC has joined #rif
16:01:16 <csma> zakim, mute me
16:01:16 <Zakim> csma should now be muted
16:01:17 <holger> /me zakim, josb.a is probably me
16:01:18 <Zakim> +Igor_Mozetic
16:01:27 <Zakim> +[Fujitsu]
16:01:27 <IanH> IanH has joined #rif
16:01:31 <sandro> MarkusK, no + on that command.
16:01:50 <sandro> sure
16:01:52 <Zakim> +Mike_Dean
16:01:52 <FrankMcCabe> zakim, mute me
16:01:53 <Zakim> sorry, FrankMcCabe, I do not see a party named 'FrankMcCabe'
16:01:57 <ChrisWelty> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:01:57 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro, ChrisWelty, HaroldB, josb (muted), Allen_Ginsberg (muted), Darko, PaulaP (muted), Deborah_Nichols (muted), Evan_Wallace, holger?, MinsuJang (muted),
16:02:00 <Zakim> ... David_Hirtle (muted), Ugo_Corda, MarkusK (muted), csma (muted), Igor_Mozetic (muted), [Fujitsu], Mike_Dean
16:02:03 <LeoraMorgenstern> LeoraMorgenstern has joined #rif
16:02:03 <FrankMcCabe> zakim, fujitsu is me
16:02:03 <Zakim> +FrankMcCabe; got it
16:02:05 <Zakim> +msintek
16:02:09 <FrankMcCabe> zakim, mute me
16:02:09 <Zakim> FrankMcCabe should now be muted
16:02:12 <Zakim> +Gary_Hallmark
16:02:16 <Zakim> +??P26
16:02:23 <Zakim> + +44.208.789.aacc
16:02:35 <pfps> pfps has joined #rif
16:02:48 <DonaldC> Zakim aacc is me
16:02:55 <Zakim> +Peter_Patel-Schneider
16:03:07 <DonaldC> zakim, aacc is me
16:03:07 <Zakim> +DonaldC; got it
16:03:19 <DonaldC> zakim, mute me
16:03:19 <Zakim> DonaldC should now be muted
16:03:26 <Zakim> +Leora_Morgenstern
16:03:29 <pfps> Nice typing. :-)
16:03:34 <Zakim> +Said_Tabet
16:03:48 <sandro> IanH, you forgot the comma after "zakim".  :-)
16:03:51 <LeoraMorgenstern> zakim, mute me
16:03:51 <Zakim> Leora_Morgenstern should now be muted
16:03:52 <Zakim> +??P34
16:03:55 <johnhall> johnhall has joined #rif
16:04:11 <saidtabet> saidtabet has joined #rif
16:04:17 <sandro> zakim, P26 is IanH
16:04:17 <Zakim> sorry, sandro, I do not recognize a party named 'P26'
16:04:20 <saidtabet> hello everyone!
16:04:21 <GiorgosStoilos> GiorgosStoilos has joined #rif
16:04:21 <sandro> zakim, ??P26 is IanH
16:04:21 <Zakim> +IanH; got it
16:04:29 <saidtabet> zakim, mute me
16:04:30 <Zakim> Said_Tabet should now be muted
16:04:48 <Zakim> + +1.415.359.aadd
16:05:21 <csma> biajn sent regrets
16:05:27 <sandro> zakim, who is talking?
16:05:33 <JeffPan> JeffPan has joined #rif
16:05:38 <Zakim> sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ChrisWelty (13%), Darko (38%)
16:05:43 <sandro> zakim, mute Darko
16:05:43 <Zakim> Darko should now be muted
16:05:44 <Darko> zakim, mute me
16:05:45 <Zakim> Darko was already muted, Darko
16:05:45 <Zakim> +??P10
16:06:04 <JeffPan> zakim, ??P10 is me
16:06:04 <Zakim> +JeffPan; got it
16:06:37 <csma> zakim, who is on the call?
16:06:37 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro, ChrisWelty, HaroldB, josb (muted), Allen_Ginsberg (muted), Darko (muted), PaulaP (muted), Deborah_Nichols (muted), Evan_Wallace, holger?, MinsuJang
16:06:40 <Zakim> ... (muted), David_Hirtle (muted), Ugo_Corda, MarkusK (muted), csma (muted), Igor_Mozetic (muted), FrankMcCabe (muted), Mike_Dean, Michael_Sintek (muted), Gary_Hallmark, IanH
16:06:42 <csma> don greist
16:06:45 <Zakim> ... (muted), DonaldC (muted), Peter_Patel-Schneider, Leora_Morgenstern (muted), Said_Tabet (muted), ??P34 (muted), +1.415.359.aadd, JeffPan
16:07:02 <csma> zakim, aadd is DonGreist
16:07:02 <Zakim> +DonGreist; got it
16:07:06 <sandro> zakim, aadd is DonGriest
16:07:06 <Zakim> sorry, sandro, I do not recognize a party named 'aadd'
16:07:15 <Darko> I am here
16:07:19 <GaryHallmark> GaryHallmark has joined #rif
16:07:25 <Darko> yes
16:07:50 <Allen> zakim, queue me
16:07:50 <Zakim> I don't understand 'queue me', Allen
16:07:56 <Allen> yes
16:08:00 <sandro> q+ minor ammendment
16:08:04 <StanD> StanD has joined #rif
16:08:05 <sandro> q- minor
16:08:08 <Allen> zakim, unmute me
16:08:08 <Zakim> Allen_Ginsberg should no longer be muted
16:08:10 <sandro> q- ammendment
16:08:10 <sandro> q+
16:08:45 <Zakim> -Mike_Dean
16:08:59 <sandro> q?
16:09:03 <IanH> IanH has left #rif
16:09:03 <Darko> sorry I cann scribe
16:09:06 <Allen> zakim, mute me
16:09:06 <Zakim> Allen_Ginsberg should now be muted
16:09:12 <ChrisWelty> go ahead darko
16:09:12 <csma> ack sandro
16:09:35 <Zakim> +Mike_Dean
16:09:52 <csma> zakim, unmute me
16:09:52 <Zakim> csma should no longer be muted
16:09:55 <Darko> Apologize but not this time
16:09:58 <DonaldC> zakim, unmute me
16:09:58 <Zakim> DonaldC should no longer be muted
16:10:17 <csma> zakim, mute me
16:10:17 <Zakim> csma should now be muted
16:10:20 <sandro> amendment to minutes: change 'sandro' to ... someone ... in the PRR liason section.
16:10:22 <Zakim> +Helen_Chen
16:10:32 <Allen> ok
16:11:01 <DonaldC> zakim, unmute me
16:11:03 <Zakim> DonaldC was not muted, DonaldC
16:11:03 <IRH> IRH has joined #rif
16:11:03 <DonaldC> zakim, mute me
16:11:03 <Zakim> DonaldC should now be muted
16:11:03 <sandro> zakim, who is talking?
16:11:03 <josb> Darko, speak out on the phone
16:11:03 <Zakim> sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ChrisWelty (12%), Sandro (4%)
16:11:06 <sandro> zakim, who is talking?
16:11:18 <Zakim> sandro, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: ChrisWelty (10%), Sandro (5%), Helen_Chen (45%)
16:11:44 <josb> zakim, mute Helen_Chen
16:11:44 <Zakim> Helen_Chen should now be muted
16:12:01 <Allen> Minutes amendment: Please change the line in section 2 that says "liaison report from OMG SBVR - Allen Ginsberg: " to Donald Chapin
16:12:04 <Darko> nop
16:12:11 <Darko> sorry no this time
16:12:57 <csma> don greist is here
16:12:59 <Elisa> Elisa has joined #rif
16:13:00 <Uli> Uli has joined #rif
16:13:41 <ChrisWelty> zakim, who is here?
16:13:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro, ChrisWelty, Harold, josb (muted), Allen_Ginsberg (muted), Darko (muted), PaulaP (muted), Deborah_Nichols (muted), Evan_Wallace, holger? (muted),
16:13:44 <FrankMcCabe> i can do it
16:13:44 <Zakim> ... MinsuJang (muted), David_Hirtle (muted), Ugo_Corda, MarkusK (muted), csma (muted), Igor_Mozetic (muted), FrankMcCabe (muted), Michael_Sintek (muted), Gary_Hallmark, IanH
16:13:48 <Zakim> ... (muted), DonaldC (muted), Peter_Patel-Schneider, Leora_Morgenstern (muted), Said_Tabet (muted), ??P34 (muted), DonGreist, JeffPan, Mike_Dean, Helen_Chen (muted)
16:13:51 <Zakim> On IRC I see Uli, Elisa, IRH, StanD, GaryHallmark, JeffPan, GiorgosStoilos, saidtabet, johnhall, pfps, LeoraMorgenstern, DonaldC, msintek, igor, MarkusK, Deborah_Nichols, ugo,
16:13:55 <Zakim> ... holger, csma, josb, Allen, EvanWallace, ericP, RRSAgent, Zakim, David_Hirtle, FrankMcCabe, PaulaP, ChrisWelty, Harold, Darko, MinsuJang, mdean, sandro
16:14:15 <csma> +1
16:14:16 <Zakim> +Elisa
16:14:16 <sandro> +1
16:14:18 <PaulaP> +1
16:14:27 <scribe> minutes from last meeting accepted
16:14:37 <ericP> ericP has left #rif
16:14:53 <csma> me zakim, unmute me
16:14:55 <Elisa> zakim, mute me
16:14:55 <Zakim> Elisa should now be muted
16:15:08 <ChrisWelty> ack csma
16:15:27 <sandro> ACTION: csma to ask ISO whether liaison is worthwhile for ISO IEC Joint Task Force 1, SC 32, Working Group 2: Metadata Standards US national body is ANSI L8 might be interesting for liaison. See [WWW] http://metadata-standards.org/ [CONTINUED]
16:16:12 <DonaldC> zakim, unmute me
16:16:12 <Zakim> DonaldC should no longer be muted
16:16:14 <sandro> (unless you want to do it, Frank.   I'm pasting from the meeting page on the wiki, adding a note like [CONTINUED] or [DONE] on the end before hitting return.]
16:16:29 <Elisa> zakim, unmute me
16:16:29 <Zakim> Elisa should no longer be muted
16:17:02 <csma> q+
16:17:06 <saidtabet> q+
16:17:07 <MichaelKifer> MichaelKifer has joined #rif
16:17:23 <saidtabet> q-
16:17:24 <Zakim> +[IVML]
16:17:34 <Elisa> me zakim mute me
16:17:41 <scribe> Selman says that there is no activity currently in JSR94
16:17:52 <scribe> There are two mailing lists we can subscribe to
16:17:56 <ChrisWelty> q?
16:17:58 <sandro> q+ to ask if anyone on this call is on that mailing list
16:18:02 <scribe> zakim, unmute me
16:18:02 <Zakim> sorry, scribe, I do not see a party named 'scribe'
16:18:02 <sandro> ack csma
16:18:04 <ChrisWelty> ack csma
16:18:09 <saidtabet> zakim, unmute me
16:18:09 <Zakim> Said_Tabet should no longer be muted
16:18:15 <scribe> zakim, unmute FrankMcCabe
16:18:15 <Zakim> FrankMcCabe should no longer be muted
16:18:17 <csma> zakim, mute me
16:18:17 <Zakim> csma should now be muted
16:18:29 <GiorgosStoilos> Zakim, +[IVML] is me
16:18:29 <Zakim> sorry, GiorgosStoilos, I do not recognize a party named '+[IVML]'
16:18:31 <csma> said could be the liaison?
16:18:33 <scribe> said says that he follows the mailing list on JSR94
16:18:41 <Zakim> +??P38
16:18:59 <johnhall> ??38 is me
16:19:11 <saidtabet> zakim, mute me
16:19:12 <Zakim> Said_Tabet should now be muted
16:19:15 <scribe> ACTION: send a message to JSR94 that the RIF is here
16:19:16 <Elisa> me/ zakim mut me
16:19:19 <ChrisWelty> q?
16:19:29 <Zakim> +Michael_Kifer
16:19:31 <johnhall> zakim ??38 is me
16:19:31 <sandro> topic: Use Case & Requirements 
16:19:32 <scribe> topic: use cases
16:19:34 <Allen> zakim , unmute me
16:19:49 <DonaldC> Zakim, mute me
16:19:49 <Zakim> DonaldC should now be muted
16:19:53 <MichaelKifer> zakim, mute me
16:19:53 <Zakim> Michael_Kifer should now be muted
16:19:54 <johnhall> zakim, mute me
16:19:55 <Zakim> sorry, johnhall, I do not see a party named 'johnhall'
16:19:59 <sandro> ACTION: Christian to send an email to announce the one week deadline for reviewing edited general use cases [DROPPED]
16:20:16 <IRH> zakim, unmute me
16:20:16 <Zakim> sorry, IRH, I do not see a party named 'IRH'
16:20:21 <johnhall> zakim ??38 is johnhall
16:20:25 <sandro> zakim, unmute IanH
16:20:25 <Zakim> IanH should no longer be muted
16:20:46 <sandro> discussing ACTION: Ian Horrocks to write scenario for RichKR including ?features?
16:21:04 <scribe> IanH edited the Rich Knowledge Representation scenario 
16:21:14 <sandro> ACTION: Ian Horrocks to write scenario for RichKR including ?features? [DONE]
16:21:15 <StanD> zakim, Helen_Chen is StanD
16:21:15 <Zakim> +StanD; got it
16:21:16 <scribe> IanH trieed to give a generic example of RKR
16:21:30 <csma> zakim, unmute me
16:21:30 <Zakim> csma should no longer be muted
16:21:32 <sandro> ACTION: Chris Welty will come up with another example narrative for a RichKR use case [CONTINUED]
16:21:40 <sandro> ACTION: Christian will propose another scenario for the publication use case [CONTINUED]
16:21:47 <DonaldC> zakim, unmute me
16:21:47 <Zakim> DonaldC should no longer be muted
16:21:51 <Allen> zakim, unmute me
16:21:51 <Zakim> Allen_Ginsberg should no longer be muted
16:21:52 <Zakim> -??P38
16:21:53 <csma> zakim, mute me
16:21:54 <Zakim> csma should now be muted
16:21:57 <sandro> ACTION: Paul Vincent will do the detailed scenario for "Interoperability between rule engines" [CONTINUED]
16:22:27 <sandro> ACTION: Frank will do the scenarios for information integration with Ed Barkmeyer assisting [CONTINUED]
16:22:34 <sandro> ACTION: Leora will do the Decision Support detailed scenario [DONE]
16:22:51 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:22:52 <sandro> ACTION: Donald will submit an email about the use case for interchanging rules specified in different metamodels [DONE]
16:23:16 <johnhall> zakim IPcaller is me
16:23:29 <scribe> Donald has updated the WIKI with human oriented rules
16:23:50 <Zakim> -IRH
16:24:03 <scribe> Allen Many of the scenarios just showed up today
16:24:06 <johnhall> Zakim +[ipcaller] is me
16:24:24 <Elisa> zakim, mute me
16:24:24 <Zakim> Elisa should now be muted
16:24:27 <josb> zakim, [ipcaller] is johnhall
16:24:27 <Zakim> +johnhall; got it
16:24:30 <scribe> Allen latecomers not in first draft
16:24:35 <scribe> More editing to do
16:24:42 <johnhall> zakim, mute me
16:24:42 <Zakim> johnhall should now be muted
16:24:59 <scribe> cross platform, rule development deployment to be done by PVicent
16:25:15 <scribe> group needs to decide about human oriented ruless
16:25:23 <Zakim> +??P26
16:25:33 <scribe> group should look at donald's recent post
16:26:01 <csma> zakim, unmute me
16:26:02 <Zakim> csma should no longer be muted
16:26:04 <csma> q+
16:26:22 <scribe> email needs to be sent about reminding people to look at use cases for completeness
16:26:23 <csma> q-
16:26:34 <DonaldC> zakim, mute me
16:26:34 <Zakim> DonaldC should now be muted
16:27:02 <josb> zakim, IanH is really IRH
16:27:02 <Zakim> +IRH; got it
16:27:19 <csma> zakim, mute me
16:27:19 <Zakim> csma should now be muted
16:27:28 <scribe> Christian: message seemed to be redundant based on minutes
16:27:35 <sandro> q+
16:27:48 <saidtabet> q+
16:28:03 <PaulaP> q?
16:28:35 <scribe> Need an editors draft for F2F in march. Leave meeting with a pubished working draft
16:29:08 <scribe> Editor's draft ready just before the F2F
16:29:25 <sandro> s/march/february/
16:29:32 <sandro> F2F2 is 27 February
16:29:34 <scribe> Allen: in reasonable shape wrt use cases themselves
16:29:46 <scribe> Allen: no design goals and requirements at the moment
16:30:01 <scribe> Start figuring out requirements now
16:30:34 <sandro> q-
16:30:37 <saidtabet> q-
16:30:38 <scribe> Allen: Use cases need to be organized by next week. Then start on requriements
16:31:00 <sandro> q+
16:31:12 <scribe> Allen: to have an introduction etc. by next week's call?
16:31:33 <scribe> Allen: looking for closure on use cases
16:32:01 <scribe> David: needs redaction
16:32:38 <scribe> Allen: easily readable scenarios, with an intro, reduce to a few pages
16:33:02 <scribe> Are there any undone use case categories
16:33:22 <sandro> s/Are/ChrisW: Are/
16:34:03 <scribe> 2.3 cross development and deployment not yet done. Human use case needs a group decision.
16:34:27 <scribe> allen: in relatively good shape
16:34:47 <scribe> chrisW: people needs to review the human oriented b rules
16:34:58 <LeoraMorgenstern> I'll volunteer to review
16:35:15 <JeffPan> me too
16:35:15 <StanD> I will review
16:35:47 <StanD> Stan Devitt
16:35:47 <scribe> ACTION: Leora, StanD, Jeeff will review and report on human oriented rules
16:36:36 <scribe> ChrisW: by Friday + reporting to group
16:36:50 <sandro> RRSAgent, drop action 11
16:36:53 <scribe> chrisW: looking for feedback
16:37:26 <sandro> ACTION Leora, Stan, JeffP to review and report on human oriented rules section of UCR, sending e-mail by friday.
16:37:34 <sandro> ACTION: Leora, Stan, JeffP to review and report on human oriented rules section of UCR, sending e-mail by friday.
16:38:07 <scribe> chrisW: will section 2 be ready by next week?
16:38:29 <scribe> Allen: should be possible
16:38:58 <csma> q?
16:39:07 <sandro> q-
16:39:09 <scribe> chrisW: have readiness by next week as a goal so that we can get reviewers
16:39:58 <Allen> zakim, mute me
16:39:58 <Zakim> Allen_Ginsberg should now be muted
16:40:07 <scribe> chrisW: three people to review HOR, + use cases ready next week. Start reviewing next con call
16:40:12 <vassilis> vassilis has joined #rif
16:40:26 <csma> zakim, unmute me
16:40:26 <Zakim> csma should no longer be muted
16:40:38 <csma> zakim, unmute me
16:40:38 <Zakim> csma was not muted, csma
16:40:54 <scribe> topic: OWL+RDF compatibility
16:41:06 <sandro> consider: ACTION: Christian will start an email discussion on "What part of the RIF vs. OWL/RDF Compatibility belongs to RIF and what part belong to OWL/RDF"
16:41:12 <csma> zakim, unmute me
16:41:12 <Zakim> csma was not muted, csma
16:41:26 <sandro> ACTION: Christian will start an email discussion on "What part of the RIF vs. OWL/RDF Compatibility belongs to RIF and what part belong to OWL/RDF" [CONTINUED]
16:41:56 <StanD> Jos DeRoo has reported on his action.
16:42:04 <StanD> q+
16:42:05 <csma> zakim, mute me
16:42:05 <Zakim> csma should now be muted
16:42:32 <sandro> ACTION: JosDeRoo to update RIF wrt SPARQL rdfSemantics issue and its pending resolution [CONTINUED]
16:42:40 <sandro> ACTION: JosDeBruijn create a wiki page explaining the issue with bNode semantics and summarize the possible solutions which have come up during the discussions on the mailing list [CONTINUED]
16:43:08 <scribe> cw: active topic: discussion on query languages
16:43:21 <StanD> JosDeRoo has reported on the SPARQL action at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Jan/0138.html
16:43:46 <MichaelKifer> MichaelKifer has joined #rif
16:43:54 <scribe> chrisW: would like to see resolution on query language compatibility.
16:44:13 <MichaelKifer> zakim, unmute me
16:44:13 <Zakim> Michael_Kifer should no longer be muted
16:44:23 <MichaelKifer> q+
16:45:32 <ChrisWelty> q?
16:45:42 <sandro> ack StanD 
16:45:55 <scribe> sandro does not feel the need to achieve consensus on query language compat.
16:46:01 <scribe> at the moment
16:46:12 <csma> q+
16:46:35 <csma> q?
16:46:37 <sandro> RRSAgent, drop action 14
16:46:42 <sandro> ACTION: JosDeRoo to update RIF wrt SPARQL rdfSemantics issue and its pending resolution [DONE]
16:46:49 <csma> q?
16:47:04 <scribe> stan: Jos could not make the call. However, Jos feels that he has completed his action wrt SPARQL
16:47:21 <josb> s/Jos/JosDeRoo
16:47:27 <scribe> mKifer: revolves on semantics of b-nodes. 
16:47:38 <JeremyCarroll> JeremyCarroll has joined #rif
16:47:44 <scribe> mKifer: including SPARQL
16:48:06 <Zakim> +??P40
16:48:23 <josb> +1
16:48:56 <csma> q?
16:49:03 <csma> ack michael
16:49:22 <csma> q?
16:49:24 <MichaelKifer> q-
16:49:33 <MichaelKifer> zakim, mute me
16:49:33 <Zakim> Michael_Kifer should now be muted
16:49:37 <scribe> Query language discussion waiting on b-node discussion
16:49:38 <csma> q?
16:49:54 <csma> ack me
16:50:23 <scribe> csma: not sure if we should wait for bnode before talking sparql
16:50:45 <scribe> relation between rif and query languages e.g. querying knowldge and databases
16:50:54 <scribe> this is compat with RDF
16:51:26 <csma> +1
16:51:26 <scribe> chrisW: need a new item on agenda for QL fitting into RIF
16:51:29 <saidtabet> +1
16:51:30 <PaulaP> +1
16:51:44 <saidtabet> Agree with Sandro
16:51:49 <scribe> done in context of use cases and not in abstract
16:51:52 <josb> +1 agree with Sandro
16:52:07 <scribe> csma: also agrees
16:52:09 <csma> zakim, mute me
16:52:09 <Zakim> csma should now be muted
16:52:47 <sandro> sandro said -- let's only talk about this (query language -- acces to data issue) in the context of specific use cases
16:52:47 <josb> Why not add a use case?
16:52:59 <csma> q?
16:53:04 <scribe> sandro: looking for proposals relating QL and use cases
16:53:23 <scribe> should already be in use cases
16:53:27 <csma> zakim, unmute me
16:53:27 <Zakim> csma should no longer be muted
16:53:40 <Allen> +queue
16:53:44 <sandro> s/should already/sandro: should already/
16:53:46 <Allen> +queue me
16:53:53 <scribe> csma: when people discuss QL, specific topic on email, illustrate with examples
16:54:27 <sandro> ack Allen 
16:54:31 <Allen> zakim, unmute me
16:54:31 <Zakim> Allen_Ginsberg was not muted, Allen
16:54:56 <PaulaP> there is a use case on querying XML and RDF data
16:55:04 <PaulaP> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/Rule-Based_Combined_Access_to_XML_and_RDF_Data
16:55:13 <scribe> Allen: information integration does not mention SPARQL but should be big on QL
16:55:17 <ChrisWelty> q?
16:55:24 <scribe> q+
16:56:19 <Allen> zakim, mute me
16:56:19 <Zakim> Allen_Ginsberg should now be muted
16:56:48 <scribe> q-
16:56:54 <PaulaP> the mentioned use case is in the information integration category
16:57:24 <sandro> topic: Classification
16:57:25 <scribe> topic: classification
16:57:40 <scribe> chrisw: not much on interchange
16:57:59 <scribe> chrisw: needto understnad what is being changed
16:58:11 <scribe> chrisw: what can be interchanged
16:58:37 <scribe> chrisw: breakout sessions focused on classification in order to be able to uderstand what we can inerchange
16:59:07 <scribe> chrisw: varying expectations on amount that we will be able to interchange 
16:59:22 <Zakim> -DonGreist
16:59:49 <scribe> chrisw: please add to suggested reading list. How to classify KR semantics
16:59:51 <Allen> +queue me
16:59:58 <ChrisWelty> q?
17:00:01 <EvanWallace> When did Chris send this message?
17:00:12 <sandro> ack Allen 
17:00:13 <Allen> zakim, unmute me
17:00:13 <Zakim> Allen_Ginsberg was not muted, Allen
17:00:44 <scribe> allen: agrees with chrisw. Key is what can we facilitate. 
17:01:16 <saidtabet> q+
17:01:20 <scribe> Allen: suggestion from email list: concrete way - specific example and how would you translate
17:01:50 <scribe> allen: specific example from Jess, should be possible to tranlate to jrules but harder taks to translate to prolog (say)
17:02:15 <sandro> Zakim, mute JeremyCarroll 
17:02:15 <Zakim> JeremyCarroll should now be muted
17:02:40 <scribe> allen: discussion on how to represent semantics of rules
17:03:16 <scribe> allen: also translation across different meta-models/semantics
17:03:27 <sandro> +1 Allen (to look at some specific examples of translating between rule languages with very different semantics)
17:03:54 <scribe> allen: there is no retract in Prolog (?)
17:04:11 <scribe> retract is called retract in Prolog!
17:04:23 <sandro> real prolog does have retract, but pure prolog does not -- maybe that's the confusion.
17:04:43 <Harold> q?
17:04:49 <scribe> chrisw: need to avoid reinvention of rule
17:05:13 <scribe> chrisW: looking for utility not perfection
17:05:15 <csma> q?
17:05:23 <saidtabet> zakim, unmute me
17:05:23 <Zakim> Said_Tabet should no longer be muted
17:05:24 <sandro> ChrisWelty: even if we can't translate completely, it's still useful to translate
17:05:27 <csma> ack saidt
17:05:31 <Allen> zakim, mute me
17:05:31 <Zakim> Allen_Ginsberg should now be muted
17:05:53 <Harold> q+
17:06:04 <scribe> said: agrees with Allen & chrisW need to focus on what we are trying to interchange
17:06:27 <Allen> queue+
17:06:29 <scribe> commas are extra
17:06:39 <ChrisWelty> q?
17:06:39 <saidtabet> zakim, mute me
17:06:40 <Zakim> Said_Tabet should now be muted
17:06:57 <scribe> harold: separate phase 1 from phase 2 issues. retract is a phase 2 issue
17:07:28 <scribe> harold: could have phase 1 use cases. only pure KR 
17:07:35 <EvanWallace> +1 on phase II continuity for Use Cases
17:07:38 <sandro> harold: use cases, marked up with what is phase 1, what is phase 2.
17:07:40 <scribe> chrisw: what is slotted logic
17:08:00 <scribe> harold: slotted logic = named arguments
17:08:02 <StanD> q+
17:08:08 <Harold> q-
17:08:09 <Allen> yes
17:08:09 <sandro> ack Harold 
17:08:11 <sandro> ack Allen 
17:08:39 <scribe> allen: we need to be clear on what RIF guarantees in terms of interchange
17:08:54 <scribe> allen: do we guarantee logical, operational equivalence
17:08:59 <MichaelKifer> MichaelKifer has joined #rif
17:09:00 <csma> +1
17:09:08 <sandro> ack StanD 
17:09:11 <Allen> zakim, mute me
17:09:11 <Zakim> Allen_Ginsberg should now be muted
17:09:46 <scribe> stanD: wrt object of interchange key step is infrastructure allowing author to document what is being sent
17:10:22 <scribe> stanD: if you can clearly identify what the source of KR is, receiver can more easily determine how to interpret
17:10:25 <csma> zakim, unmute me
17:10:28 <Zakim> csma should no longer be muted
17:10:34 <scribe> csma: agrees
17:10:40 <ChrisWelty> q?
17:10:42 <csma> zakim, mute me
17:10:42 <Zakim> csma should now be muted
17:11:05 <scribe> chrisW: need to move forward on this
17:11:06 <csma> q?
17:11:47 <scribe> ACTION: will explain what Lloyd Topor extensions etc mean
17:12:13 <scribe> ACTION: Harold will explain what Lloyd Topor extensions etc mean
17:12:21 <scribe> RRSagent, drop 17
17:12:21 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'drop 17', scribe.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
17:12:37 <sandro> RRSAgent, drop action 17
17:13:02 <sandro> [DONE] ACTION: chris clarify desiderata for list of classifications
17:13:07 <JeffPan> +1
17:13:09 <holger> +1
17:13:09 <Zakim> -JeremyCarroll
17:13:10 <PaulaP> +1
17:13:12 <StanD> +1
17:13:15 <Zakim> -Evan_Wallace
17:13:17 <saidtabet> +1
17:13:17 <Zakim> -Igor_Mozetic
17:13:19 <Zakim> -holger?
17:13:19 <msintek> msintek has left #rif
17:13:20 <Zakim> -Allen_Ginsberg
17:13:20 <StanD> -StanD
17:13:21 <Zakim> -David_Hirtle
17:13:21 <JeffPan> thanks bye
17:13:22 <Zakim> -Gary_Hallmark
17:13:23 <Zakim> -johnhall
17:13:24 <Zakim> -Michael_Kifer
17:13:25 <igor> bye
17:13:25 <Zakim> -??P34
17:13:25 <Darko> -Darko
17:13:26 <saidtabet> bye everyone!
17:13:27 <Zakim> -IRH
17:13:28 <MichaelKifer> -MichaelKifer
17:13:28 <Zakim> -Michael_Sintek
17:13:29 <Uli> Uli has left #rif
17:13:31 <Zakim> -DonaldC
17:13:34 <Zakim> -Peter_Patel-Schneider
17:13:35 <csma> bye
17:13:36 <Zakim> -Deborah_Nichols
17:13:37 <sandro> RRSAgent, make minutes
17:13:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/01/31-rif-minutes.html sandro
17:13:37 <JeffPan> \msg EvanWallace Hi
17:13:38 <Zakim> -StanD
17:13:40 <Zakim> -MarkusK
17:13:42 <Zakim> -Elisa
17:13:42 <csma> csma has left #rif
17:13:44 <Zakim> -Said_Tabet
17:13:45 <ugo> ugo has left #rif
17:13:52 <Zakim> -Darko
17:13:54 <Zakim> -Leora_Morgenstern
17:14:38 <Zakim> -PaulaP
17:14:40 <Zakim> -Ugo_Corda
17:14:40 <Zakim> -FrankMcCabe
17:14:42 <Zakim> -Sandro
17:14:43 <sandro> zakim, who is here?
17:14:43 <Zakim> On the phone I see ChrisWelty, Harold, josb (muted), MinsuJang (muted), csma (muted), JeffPan, Mike_Dean, GiorgosStoilos
17:14:45 <Zakim> On IRC I see MichaelKifer, JeremyCarroll, vassilis, IRH, StanD, JeffPan, pfps, LeoraMorgenstern, DonaldC, MarkusK, holger, josb, Allen, EvanWallace, RRSAgent, Zakim, scribe,
17:14:49 <Zakim> ... PaulaP, ChrisWelty, Harold, Darko, MinsuJang, mdean, sandro
17:14:50 <csma> csma has joined #rif
17:14:51 <Zakim> -Harold
17:14:52 <sandro> RRSAgent, who was here?
17:14:52 <RRSAgent> I'm logging.  Sorry, nothing found for 'who was here'
17:14:53 <Zakim> -josb
17:14:57 <Zakim> -ChrisWelty
17:14:59 <Zakim> -MinsuJang
17:15:01 <Zakim> -JeffPan
17:15:03 <Zakim> -GiorgosStoilos
17:15:05 <Zakim> -Mike_Dean
17:15:32 <Darko> -Darko
17:15:36 <Zakim> -csma
17:15:38 <Zakim> SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended
17:15:39 <Zakim> Attendees were Sandro, ChrisWelty, josb, Allen_Ginsberg, +1.435.125.aaaa, Darko, PaulaP, Deborah_Nichols, Evan_Wallace, MinsuJang, Ugo_Corda, David_Hirtle, holger?,
17:15:42 <Zakim> ... +33.6.80.06.aabb, csma, Igor_Mozetic, MarkusK, Mike_Dean, FrankMcCabe, Gary_Hallmark, +44.208.789.aacc, Michael_Sintek, Peter_Patel-Schneider, DonaldC, Leora_Morgenstern,
17:15:43 <csma> csma has left #rif
17:15:46 <Zakim> ... Said_Tabet, +1.415.359.aadd, JeffPan, DonGreist, Harold, Elisa, GiorgosStoilos, Michael_Kifer, IRH, StanD, johnhall, JeremyCarroll
17:18:19 <holger> holger has left #rif
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