14:31:12 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dawg
14:31:12 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/01/31-dawg-irc
14:31:18 <Zakim> +Libby_Miller
14:31:25 <Zakim> +DanC
14:31:26 <EliasT> EliasT has joined #dawg
14:31:37 <Zakim> +Kendall_Clark
14:31:48 <Zakim> +[IBMCambridge]
14:31:53 <EliasT> Zakim, IBMCambridge is me
14:31:53 <Zakim> +EliasT; got it
14:32:43 <DanC> Zakim, take up item 1
14:32:43 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Convene" taken up [from DanC]
14:32:53 <DanC> Meeting: DAWG Weekly
14:32:54 <Zakim> +EricP
14:32:56 <DanC> Chair: DanC
14:33:03 <DanC> ScribeNick: SerT
14:33:24 <DanC> Scribe: Sergio Tessaris
14:33:27 <SvenGroppe> Zakim, Axel_Polleres is me
14:33:27 <Zakim> +SvenGroppe; got it
14:33:31 <AndyS> AndyS has left #dawg
14:33:31 <DanC> Zakim, who's on the phone?
14:33:31 <Zakim> On the phone I see SerT, LeeF, SvenGroppe, Libby_Miller, DanC, Kendall_Clark, EliasT, EricP
14:35:05 <DanC> agenda + schema validity [EricP]
14:35:38 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:35:45 <SteveH> Zakim, [IPcaller] is SteveH
14:35:45 <Zakim> +SteveH; got it
14:35:51 <SerT> agenda + comment status
14:36:07 <DanC> Zakim, agenda?
14:36:07 <Zakim> I see 8 items remaining on the agenda:
14:36:08 <Zakim> 1. Convene [from DanC]
14:36:09 <Zakim> 2. Toward updated protocol WD (and results format WD) [from DanC]
14:36:11 <Zakim> 3. Protocol for syntax errors. See thread: SPARQL: Error handling [from DanC]
14:36:14 <Zakim> 4. comments related to rdfSemantics, owlDisjunction [from DanC]
14:36:15 <Zakim> 5. Toward CR [from DanC]
14:36:16 <Zakim> 6. test suite maintenance [from DanC]
14:36:17 <Zakim> 7. schema validity [from EricP via DanC]
14:36:18 <Zakim> 8. comment status [from SerT]
14:36:33 <patH> patH has joined #dawg
14:37:06 <Zakim> +PatH
14:38:02 <DanC> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JanMar/att-0298/26-dawg-minutes.html#item04 minutes 26 Jan
14:38:09 <DanC> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JanMar/att-0298/26-dawg-minutes.html minutes 26 Jan
14:38:28 <DanC> RESOLVED to approve minutes 26 Jan
14:38:55 <ericP> AndyS___, definitely W3C?
14:39:13 <DanC> Zakim, pick a scribe
14:39:14 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose SteveH
14:39:21 <DanC> next meeting 6 Feb?
14:39:26 <DanC> Zakim, pick a scribe
14:39:26 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose LeeF
14:39:44 <DanC> RESOLVED: to meet again 6 Feb. Lee to scribe.
14:39:53 <libby> 7 feb?
14:39:59 <DanC> RESOLVED: to meet again 7 Feb. Lee to scribe.
14:40:19 <bijan> bijan has joined #dawg
14:40:30 <DanC> Zakim, next item
14:40:30 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Toward updated protocol WD (and results format WD)" taken up [from DanC]
14:40:50 <DanC> -> http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-rdf-sparql-protocol-20060125/ new protocol WD
14:40:58 <kendallclark> I'd like to thank all the little people...
14:42:22 <DanC> ACTION KC: work on edited changelog since 2005-09-14 LCWD
14:43:04 <DanC> the [SRD] cite
14:43:34 <DanC> ACTION KC: update protocol references to [SRD] and WSDL
14:43:52 <DanC> -> http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-rdf-sparql-XMLres-20060125/ new results format spec
14:44:00 <DanC> Regrets: Souri
14:44:37 <SerT> Regrets: Enrico
14:44:56 <Zakim> +??P10
14:45:12 <DanC> Zakim, ??P10 is AndyS
14:45:12 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
14:46:27 <DanC> ACTION EricP: arrange for announcement of results format spec
14:46:52 <DanC> Zakim, next item
14:46:52 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Protocol for syntax errors. See thread: SPARQL: Error handling" taken up [from DanC]
14:51:04 <JosDeRoo> JosDeRoo has joined #dawg
14:51:50 <Zakim> +Jos_De_Roo
14:54:36 <kendallclark> When the value of the query type is not a legal sequence of characters in the language defined by the SPARQL grammar, the MalformedQuery fault message should be returned. According to the Fault Replaces Message Rule, if a WSDL fault is returned, including MalformedQuery, an Out Message must not be returned.
14:57:50 <SteveH> Zakim, mute me
14:57:50 <Zakim> SteveH should now be muted
14:59:21 <DanC> cases: (1) a syntax error that returns QueryRequestRefused (2) a syntax error (i.e. extension) that returns an Out Message
15:02:00 <DanC> Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:02:00 <Zakim> On the phone I see SerT, LeeF, SvenGroppe, Libby_Miller, DanC, Kendall_Clark, EliasT, EricP, SteveH (muted), PatH, AndyS, Jos_De_Roo
15:02:29 <JosDeRoo> zakim, Jos_De_Roo is really me
15:02:29 <Zakim> +JosDeRoo; got it
15:02:50 <SteveH> Zakim, unmute me
15:02:50 <Zakim> SteveH should no longer be muted
15:02:51 <kendallclark> I'll do some scribing, then:
15:03:14 <AndyS___> I support case (2) - whether that is a SPARQL service, I don't know
15:03:23 <kendallclark> I prefer a design where a service can support a superset of the language and can return an Out Message even though the request is technically a syntax error.
15:04:21 <kendallclark> As for (1), I'd be happy to say that MalformedQuery fault has precedence over QueryRequestRefused; that is, when a service may return either, it must return MalformedQuery -- but I'm not sure how *this* preference interacts with my other preference.
15:05:57 <SerT> option (2) requires (possibly) multiple server endpoints
15:06:02 <kendallclark> yes, and that's also an implementation burden on *clients* to be in some sense syntax checkers...
15:07:59 <DanC> AFS: (1) should be allowed, (2) not
15:08:31 <AndyS___> I also support protocol extensions :-)
15:08:51 <DanC> SH: like AFS
15:10:14 <DanC> EP: yes please (2)...
15:10:22 <SerT> option (2) allows language extensions
15:10:27 <Zakim> -Libby_Miller
15:10:54 <DanC> EP: yes, (1) is allowed
15:13:02 <ericP> EP again fuzzy on the ramifications of 1
15:13:55 <kendallclark> but what if it's "FRM <
15:13:56 <kendallclark> ...>"
15:14:23 <ericP> SELECT * --THINK_REALLY_HARD WHERE { ?s ?p ?o }
15:18:13 <Zakim> +Libby_Miller
15:18:39 <kendallclark> how about: <strong><strong>should</strong></strong>? :>
15:19:04 <LeeF> works for me !
15:20:41 <AndyS___> "should" means "implementers must think and have good reason not to follow the text"
15:20:54 <kendallclark> So how about this proposal for fixing the spec:
15:21:04 <kendallclark> 1. Leave the language in the spec alone.
15:21:20 <kendallclark> 2. Add a bit about deploying a separate interface if you want to deploy sparql++
15:24:37 <kendallclark> (We only want to extend the protocol, which isn't really at issue here. That's clearly a separate WSDL interface. Done.)
15:27:35 <kendallclark> I don't care about the label on the box, Eric. I just said that. :>
15:29:07 <kendallclark> hmm, +1 to pat's suggestion. it's complex-er,  but I think it's reasonable.
15:30:06 <LeeF> All talk of SPARQL Extended interfaces smack of lack of interoperability to me
15:30:13 <LeeF> smack?
15:30:14 <LeeF> stink?
15:30:19 <kendallclark> yes, stink.
15:30:23 <kendallclark> this ALL stinks. :>
15:31:29 <LeeF> Yes
15:33:47 <patH> gentlemen, please...
15:34:25 <DanC> I'd like: ACTION KC: add an example of a "SPARQL++" query in the spec, and think about a separate interface
15:35:21 <AndyS___> I have users using    http://host/x?query=...&stylesheet=...
15:35:21 <LeeF> Are there syntaxes differences for OWL entailment?
15:35:33 <LeeF> "syntaxes differences"? uggh, I'm full of bad writing today.
15:35:39 <SerT> I don't think so
15:35:56 <DanC> ACTION EricP: provide a "SPARQL++" example query in the accessingCollections neighborhood
15:36:05 <DanC> ACTION KC: add an example of a "SPARQL++" query in the spec, and think about a separate interface
15:36:43 <ericP> I note that I am advocating motion towards a slippery slope (and apologize).
15:36:45 <LeeF> Related, but orthogonal.
15:38:59 <ericP> patH, could you give me a notional SPARQL query that would ask for results of OWL entailment (and is not a currently valid SPARQL query)?
15:39:26 <DanC> Please have opinions formed and on the WG list by agenda-building time on Mon 6 Jan
15:39:35 <patH> Eric, I can make one up.
15:39:35 <LeeF> Mon 6 Feb
15:39:43 <DanC> Please have opinions formed and on the WG list by agenda-building time on Mon 6 Feb. [tx]
15:39:55 <DanC> Zakim, next item
15:39:55 <Zakim> agendum 4. "comments related to rdfSemantics, owlDisjunction" taken up [from DanC]
15:40:30 <kendallclark> hmm, eric, FWIW, i'd like 2: one from pat re: owl, one from you re: the list functionality stufff you were talking about earlier re: annotea
15:40:33 <DanC> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JanMar/0296.html Draft response to: Re: major technical: blank nodes
15:40:33 <kendallclark> reasonable
15:40:34 <kendallclark> ?
15:40:49 <SteveH> Zakim, mute me
15:40:49 <Zakim> SteveH should now be muted
15:42:23 <DanC> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2006Jan/0073.html Dan's [OK?] msg
15:46:33 <SerT> Dan's answer is fine
15:48:49 <LeeF> link to PFPS original message?
15:49:00 <SerT> PH to respond to PFPS comments
15:49:12 <DanC> ACTION
15:49:30 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/issues#rdfSemantics
15:50:25 <ericP> kendallclark, re 2 examples, yup that was my plan (well, at least those two)
15:51:48 <Zakim> -Libby_Miller
15:52:36 <bijan> bijan has joined #dawg
15:52:47 <LeeF> There's also a postponed issue there, isn't there?
15:53:07 <DanC> partial reply to Barstow: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2005Sep/0008.html
15:53:11 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/issues#accessingCollections
15:53:26 <kendallclark> (I was just wishing this morning that we'd gone with Versa for more of our syntax. ;>)
15:54:50 <DanC> ACTION DanC: complete response to Barstow
15:55:13 <Zakim> -SteveH
15:55:39 <SerT> ACTION patH: respond to PFPS comments
15:55:47 <DanC> ACTION AndyS: draft reply to Wood
15:56:00 <DanC> agenda?
15:56:08 <kendallclark> zakim, mute me
15:56:11 <Zakim> Kendall_Clark should now be muted
15:56:20 <DanC> AndyS: I'm also working on Fred's editorial stuff.
15:56:46 <kendallclark> zakim, unmute me
15:56:46 <Zakim> Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted
15:56:55 <DanC> ADJOURN
15:57:12 <DanC> RRSAgent, make logs world-access
15:58:33 <Zakim> -Kendall_Clark
15:58:40 <LeeF> thanks, everyone. 
15:58:44 <Zakim> -LeeF
15:59:41 <Zakim> -EliasT
15:59:41 <Zakim> -PatH
16:00:50 <Zakim> -JosDeRoo
16:03:24 <DanC> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:03:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/01/31-dawg-minutes.html DanC
16:03:40 <Zakim> -SerT
16:03:44 <SerT> SerT has left #dawg
16:03:49 <DanC> ugh... I get 404 there; I guess the mirrors will catch up
16:03:58 <AndyS> Visible now
16:04:20 <Zakim> -AndyS
16:05:14 <DanC> . http://www.dajobe.org/2004/01/turtle/
16:05:48 <AndyS> A couple of v minor diffences to SPARQL.
16:10:27 <DanC> DATATYPE(xsd:byte(200)) ?
16:11:03 <Zakim> -SvenGroppe
16:11:08 <SvenGroppe> SvenGroppe has left #dawg
16:12:51 <DanC> >>> 0.1
16:12:51 <DanC> 0.10000000000000001
16:17:09 <ericP> todo += show danc the TypePromotion tests
16:18:23 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-functions/#constructor-functions
16:18:24 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-functions/#casting-from-primitive-to-primitive
16:21:35 <ericP> type error is defined in XQuery 1.0: An XML Query Language [XQUERY] section 2.3.1, Kinds of Errors.
16:24:50 <ericP> SPARQL Query todo += FOG0001
16:25:42 <ericP> FILTER (xsd:int(65536) = ?x)
16:27:17 <Zakim> -DanC
16:27:29 <Zakim> -EricP
16:27:30 <Zakim> SW_DAWG()9:30AM has ended
16:27:32 <Zakim> Attendees were SerT, LeeF, Libby_Miller, DanC, Kendall_Clark, EliasT, EricP, SvenGroppe, SteveH, PatH, AndyS, JosDeRoo
18:11:38 <Zakim> Zakim has left #dawg
18:24:56 <AndyS> AndyS has left #dawg
18:51:42 <SteveH> SteveH has left #dawg
19:38:15 <ericP> DanC, wherever did we got with sameNodeAs?
19:38:32 <DanC> with what?
19:38:52 <ericP> the kinda nonmon = problem
19:39:14 <DanC> I don't recall.
19:40:04 <ericP> FILTER (my:integer(?x) = 5)
19:40:20 <DanC> oh... I recall you had an idea for a separate value-equal and term-equal syntax. I liked that idea. I guess it got garbage collected, though, since the valueTesting is now closed
19:40:24 <ericP> say ?x was bound to "5"
19:40:42 <ericP> interesting. could be handy now for these test cases
19:41:03 <DanC> you'll have to use your judgement on whether to re-open
19:41:33 <LeeF> LeeF has left #dawg
19:41:41 <ericP> i guess i can test lexical value and datatype
19:42:08 <ericP> if both are the same, RDF semantics says it's the same term
19:42:56 <ericP> now have to see if XPath casting functions even produce a lexical value
19:43:50 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-functions/#casting
19:44:46 <ericP> [[
19:45:17 <ericP> [Constructor functions] convert a source value, SV, of a source type, ST, to a target value, TV, of the given target type, TT, with identical semantics and different syntax.
19:45:20 <ericP> ]]
19:46:08 <ericP> what are the semantics of 5 and how do they compare to the semantics of "5"?
19:46:23 <ericP> you're really not taking this walk with me, are you
19:52:42 <DanC> sorry, as I just wrote to w3t-mit, "Kyle, my 1st grader, has a school program that I'd like to see." I'm on my way out
19:53:56 <ericP> cheers
19:54:14 <DanC> btw... drop by #dig (on freenode) if you can. Have you met Ron? he's working on dbview
19:54:33 <DanC> he's working on the foreign key stuff; I pointed him at the test cases we did eaons ago.
19:54:59 <DanC> [crowell_work] (n=crowell@30-7-45.wireless.csail.mit.edu) : Robert Crowel
19:55:02 <DanC> s/Ron/Rob/
19:55:11 <DanC> RRSAgent, stop