27 Jan 2006


See also: IRC log


Bingham, Shawn, Loughborough, Judy, Henk, Shadi, Justin_Thorp, Pasquale_Popolizio, Doyle_Saylor, Liam_McGee, Jack, Barry
Wayne, Jack, Tanguy




<shawn> scribe: harvey

Outreach Updates

<shawn> scribenick: shawn

<scribe> scribenick: Nm

Harvey trying to scribe

Deadline 6 Feb for tech plenary; link on wai page

Boston IA

<shawn> harvey: Boston IA meeting with Steve Krug. however, Krug's site has accessibility problems - [PJ Gardner] demo-ed redesign of Krug's site that looks the same & is more accessible. Krug open to implementing.

BAD demo

<shadi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-eo/2006JanMar/0030.html

Judy wish 45 minutes on before/after

shadi: more to go; today focus on overall navigation and structure of demo site

<shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/2005/Demo/

Added briefer description; and a site map of pages in suite

Coming links on left nav bar.

william: presumes an in-place website. Implies need to do a before site?

JB: original purpose: a demo only, not dull and boring;repair first transformation; then to

Prior comment shawn;

shadi: learning about specific web features is objective;
... look at best practice, needn't start with accessible website;
... expect larger audience

William: this looks like a stand-alone; needn't be so.

Shadi: Questions: what first or second sample page users reach,

need to make concise and simple; make it effectively usable.

<shawn> s/JB: original purpose: a demo only, not dull and boring;repair first transformation; then to/Shawn: original purpose primarily dome for presentations, to show that accessibility dull and boring, example that can fix accessibility w/o significantly changing visual presentation

JB: Few had looked at this before the call.
... Before site: know visually we are in a demo; minimally awareness
... need reminder of what viewing; what is an adequate indication of the viewing for non-visual; add an icon [visual] of what in.

SH: will have pictures on overview; pictures in navigation

Shadi: evaluation report is sample; need some consistency -- be aware of being in the demo
... Concern for logo/icon/city-lights icon/

William: not great

JB: Thumbnails on right; a recognizable visual image of page(s)

Jack: indication of where you are

Pasquale: position where you are.

Barry joined 09:04

<barry> zakim +??P9 is Barry

William: could show image; features list; prefer naming

instead of bulleted list, pictures with minimal description.

JB: in Demonstration Contents? pictures
... Before and After, should be added

<Justin> Before Redesign Web Site (Inaccessible)

Shadi: before and after -- verb rather than name; clearer name\

<Justin> Inaccessible Web Site (Before)

Shadi: name should reflect change; certainly in contents

William: names before is like features list;

<shawn> ACTION, shadi, changelog: add elements to tie the pages together, that is, make it look like the pages fit together. e.g., on the Overview and Evaluation pages, include a small image of the BAD Home page, and on the Features page, include an image of each page (e.g., float right after h2). [shawn adds: perhaps put the CityLights logo &/or yellow bar at the top &/or the background colour...]

JB: New Subject: Evaluation Report

<shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/2005/Demo/report

That link isn't found

<Jack> Does not work for Jack.

Shadi Structure -- valid markup, CSS, deprecated elements;

Will be link in left navigation bar

Minutes are done without access to page

HBj: links to where? to checkpoints?

Shadi: just to checkpoints;

SH: all but first one; awkward to go to many links

HBj: If had heading structure; links to findings; links; descriptions.

SH: Structures, add sub-grouping.

Justin: Still seeking feedback on organization.

Shadi: first page grouping; add sub-groups as appropriate.

Original title "images" actually much more.

WM agrees; though this is hube.

WM: Huge

JB: Evaluation report, then details

Shadi: may need expansion with examples

<judy> reminder of our evaluation template: http://www.w3.org/WAI/eval/template.html

HBj: clarify use of template; a model filled-in one

JB: Before and After site as mediator; recommendations on how to fix; with deliberate analysis of page
... Could link to template; example of its use.
... example of use of demo suite.

WM: example use of template for before/after; using evaluation template structure

<shawn> JB: Eval report for BAD *and* example of Eval Report Template

JB: take what we learn; tweak evaluation template.

WM: shadi's outline would use this template.

JB: Expect view of initial draft today.

SH: Looking at URL of the report

WM: Doesn't see yellow part

Shadi: is categorization OK?

HBj: sees yellow part

Harvey doesn't

HBj: Yellow part is just notes

Pasquale: question repetition of structure

Shadi: checkpoints listed; in-page navigation; groupings
... scripting for navigation; should help user read report and get overview

<shawn> barry: navigation often site-wide, rather than per individual page

JB: Template doesn't take into account its use; some reflect back on the template

Shadi: Comment on-line about the structure

<shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/2005/Demo/features

Home page Draft Before and After Demonstration: Features

On right menu: links to inaccessible/accessible versions

That menu might have small images

Bullet points editorial cleanup

Read: using; then comment on organizational structure

Justin, shawn will read.

JB: Need comment on Demo/features link above.

Retrofitting doc link above

<shawn> requirements: http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/retrofit/retrofitting-changelog.html#about

<shawn> ROUGH early concept draft: http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/retrofit/Overview.html

About Retrofitting Web Sites for Accessibility

WM: overwhelmed BY issue of accessibility

Henk: how to read accessibility report

Suite: recipients want to understand report better.

SH: Doc: repair/retrofit site; what to do next

Henk: need clear starting point.

SH: Topic: Retrofitting Web Sites for Accessibility rough concept draft

Henk: Audience is those who have done the first step.

SH: Some may get here without background. Need clarification.
... are main points covered?
... Liam comment on needed skills and expertise? would fit somewhere; email two weeks ago; need outside help vs doing it yourself

Jack: after retrofit; fixed easy ones; go back and improve; how prioritize problems once picked "easy fruit".

SH: some document on to-do list: seeking outside expertise.

Barry: encourage people to be public on accessibility work in progress; keep users in the loop; part of managing expectations

Liam: to draft paragraph on issue

Good to do as soon as aware of problem.

Help is available; tools for evaluation

Training avoids future problems/bringing in outside expertise can help


<shawn> slh: fixing? retrofitting? repairing?

Retrofitting? Fixing? Repairing?

<shawn> henk: repairing not so good 'cause not broken

<shawn> henk: replacing for newer things

<Zakim> judy, you wanted to comment on issues w/ "retrofitting"

Retrofitting is getting a newer version; there may not be one?

<shawn> shawn & judy: "retrofitting" jargony, not familiar even in own language English

<shawn> sailesh & helle: improving

HBj: agree with Sailesh: "improving"

WM: improving the accessibility of your website is congratulatory.
... Define retrofit at top.

SH: make title welcoming: Improving the accessibility of your website?

<shadi> how about "incorporating accessibility on your Web site"?

<shawn> liam: improving accessibility on exsiting web sites

<shawn> shadi: incorporate or implement

Implementing Web Site Accessibility

JB: Too general? We focus on existing websites.

HBj: purpose -- add to existing website; explain in the beginning.

<Liam> Making existing website accessible?

SH: Title should be welcoming and easy to understand.

<shawn> henk & helle: improving accessiility by retrofitting your web site

<shawn> justins: making web site more accessible?

Liam: Making existing websites accessible

<shadi> including accessibility on your Web site

accessibility problems, barriers, errors, how to fix,

<shawn> accessibility problems? accessibility issues?

JB: Many documents use barriers; chose a loaded word.

<shawn> accessibility errors. lack of accessibility, inaccessibility

JB: Barriers is loaded word -- suggest need repair

Shadi: barriers translates well "barrier-free".

<shawn> liam: remove barriers, rather than overcome them

Lots of people like "barriers"

JB: Website problem -- server outage recently; some uploads were lost.
... Next Friday finish comment on documents.
... Sunday's EO comments on WCAG. have some feedback.
... Have taken many of our comments informally; may wish to revisit next Friday
... Look at SH: agenda page for Tech Plenary end Feb/Mar; one agenda page.
... Got 2-week discounted rate extention.

SH: comment on retrofitting document

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2006/01/27 15:37:02 $

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Present: Bingham Shawn Loughborough Judy Henk Shadi Justin_Thorp Pasquale_Popolizio Doyle_Saylor Liam_McGee Jack Barry
Regrets: Wayne Jack Tanguy
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-eo/2006JanMar/0029.html

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Got date from IRC log name: 27 Jan 2006
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2006/01/27-eo-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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