IRC log of swbp on 2006-01-24

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:55:51 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #swbp
13:55:51 [RRSAgent]
logging to
13:55:57 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #swbp
13:56:01 [RalphS]
zakim, this will be swbp
13:56:01 [Zakim]
ok, RalphS; I see SW_BPD(rdfxhtml)9:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
13:56:24 [RalphS]
Meeting: RDF-in-XHTML TF
13:57:22 [Steven]
Steven has joined #swbp
13:57:57 [RalphS]
13:58:27 [RalphS]
Previous: 2006-01-17
14:00:05 [Zakim]
SW_BPD(rdfxhtml)9:00AM has now started
14:00:12 [Zakim]
14:00:17 [MarkB]
MarkB has joined #swbp
14:01:21 [benadida]
benadida has joined #swbp
14:01:39 [Zakim]
14:02:09 [Steven]
zakim, dial steven-617
14:02:09 [Zakim]
ok, Steven; the call is being made
14:02:11 [Zakim]
14:02:17 [Zakim]
14:05:15 [RalphS]
Topic: change meeting day?
14:05:49 [RalphS]
Steven: Mondays ok up to 1500 UTC end
14:06:14 [RalphS]
14:06:25 [RalphS]
... i.e. could start a 1-hour call as late as 1500 UTC
14:07:09 [RalphS]
Mark: Monday up to 1530 UTC end
14:07:22 [Zakim]
14:07:34 [RalphS]
zakim, ??p3 is Jeremy
14:07:34 [Zakim]
+Jeremy; got it
14:09:27 [jeremy]
jeremy has joined #swbp
14:09:42 [RalphS]
Ben: Monday ok
14:11:09 [RalphS]
RESOLVED: TF telecons scheduled for 1400 UTC Mondays
14:12:40 [RalphS]
Topic: WD Status
14:12:55 [RalphS]
Ben: SWBPD WG approved RDF/A Primer to go to first public Working Draft
14:14:11 [RalphS]
Ralph: yes, the WG is expecting only small editorial changes now to the Editor's Draft
14:14:27 [RalphS]
Mark: there are still some small examples we wanted to get in
14:14:34 [RalphS]
... before it's a draft in public space
14:15:10 [RalphS]
... I posted a merged document with these examples last week
14:16:16 [RalphS]
Ralph: yes, I thought we were going to include Mark's merged stuff in what the WG reviewers saw
14:16:52 [RalphS]
Jeremy: propose that we create the version we meant to present and then tell the WG we made a mistake and ask the reviewers to look at [just] the additional text
14:18:01 [RalphS]
... we can ask this on the WG mailing list and the decision should involve the chairs
14:18:50 [benadida]
ACTION: contact WG and chairs to notify of mistake and prepare the new version.
14:19:20 [RalphS]
ACTION: Mark to send Ben his latest XML version of the Primer
14:22:01 [benadida]
ACTION: Ben to draft full response to Bjoern's 2004 email
14:22:31 [jeremy]
which URL for this e-mail?
14:23:48 [benadida]
14:25:08 [RalphS]
[PENDING] ACTION: All in the TF to look at to decide whether it's ready for WG review [recorded in]
14:25:37 [RalphS]
Mark: I recall looking at this ages ago and there was one issue, perhaps about use of types for documents
14:25:47 [RalphS]
Steven: something about resource and document
14:26:00 [RalphS]
Mark: something that required documentation, raised by Dan
14:26:33 [RalphS]
[DONE] ACTION: Ben draft a response to Gary Ng's comments [recorded in]
14:26:42 [RalphS]
[DONE] ACTION: Ben respond to Pat's RDF/A comments [recorded in]
14:26:51 [RalphS]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben to draft a new example of RDF/A as an XHTML document that is its own RSS feed [recorded in]
14:27:20 [RalphS]
[DONE] ACTION: Steven confirm an answer on issue 6 [recorded in]
14:27:28 [Steven]
14:28:35 [RalphS]
Steven: my conclusion is that although there are cases where it can be useful, it causes more problems than it solves
14:28:54 [RalphS]
... so this is a place where we should duplicate the URL
14:29:34 [RalphS]
Ralph: seems simpler to duplicate the data than complicate the rules
14:29:46 [RalphS]
Steven: I considered several different approaches
14:30:06 [RalphS]
... each one either made another useful use case disappear or made it less obvious what was being expressed
14:30:27 [RalphS]
Jeremy: @about overriding @src was the cleanest one in my mind
14:31:22 [RalphS]
... KISS does seem to argue against this override
14:31:45 [MarkB]
14:32:19 [RalphS]
... simpler rules at the expense of occasionally having to duplicate seems acceptable but let's document this and be sure to apply it consistently
14:32:51 [RalphS]
Mark: rather than putting src in the same category as href and about, let's say IMG becomes an anonymous node
14:33:16 [RalphS]
... so the element IMG has a title rather than the resource at foo.png
14:35:54 [RalphS]
Ralph: why is it useful to say that a bnode has a title?
14:38:09 [RalphS]
Mark: there's a general issue about using URIs to sometimes refer to one thing (a document) and sometimes refer to another thing (e.g. a person)
14:38:33 [RalphS]
Ralph: that's a mess we need to clean up -- and the TAG has proposed a solution
14:38:35 [danbri]
danbri has joined #swbp
14:39:17 [RalphS]
Mark: when we add a property to an image, folk who go retrieve that image won't find the title text
14:40:06 [RalphS]
Jeremy: I tend to think that one can always improve the quality of a model -- that is, the accuracy -- by adding another level of bnodes
14:41:29 [RalphS]
... people who are satisfied with the model they have argue against adding layers of bnodes
14:42:10 [RalphS]
Mark: Steven? pointed out last week that src was identifying the object rather than the subject
14:42:42 [RalphS]
... it's as if <img> were <span rel='image' href='foo.png'>
14:43:11 [RalphS]
s/img/img src='foo.png'/
14:43:54 [RalphS]
Ben: if you include META and LINK within IMG now then those properties are attached to the image element
14:44:34 [RalphS]
Mark: src can be on any element; what it points to depends on the element
14:44:44 [RalphS]
... so it's like href
14:45:03 [RalphS]
Steven: intuitively, more authors will think src is like href -- and not a subject
14:46:02 [RalphS]
TENTATIVE CONCLUSION: src is like href and does not identify a triple subject
14:46:21 [RalphS]
[CONTINUES] ACTION: Ben start separate mail threads on remaining discussion topics
14:46:36 [RalphS]
[CONTINUES] ACTION: Jeremy followup on <head about=...> edge case
14:47:01 [benadida]
14:47:06 [RalphS][CONTINUES] ACTION: Jeremy followup with Mark on the question of multiple triples from nested meta and add to issues list
14:47:11 [RalphS]
14:47:27 [RalphS]
[CONTINUES] ACTION: Jeremy followup with Mark on the question of multiple triples from nested meta and add to issues list
14:48:35 [RalphS]
[CONTINUES] ACTION: Jeremy propose wording on reification
14:50:01 [Zakim]
This conference is scheduled to end in 10 minutes; all ports must be freed
14:50:19 [RalphS]
Mark: we may want to devote an entire telecon to the related reification question
14:52:16 [RalphS]
Jeremy: reification is not must-have for me; it's too broken
14:55:02 [Zakim]
This conference is scheduled to end in 5 minutes; all ports must be freed
14:55:06 [RalphS]
rrsagent, please make this record public
14:56:37 [RalphS]
Ben: can we try to take up nested META, reification, and the implementation on 13 Feb?
14:56:53 [RalphS]
Jeremy: [reluctantly] will try
14:57:20 [jeremy]
Jeremy: using named graphs in RDF/A is to big a step from current SW standards
14:57:35 [jeremy]
(relates to earlier discussion about reification)
14:57:49 [RalphS]
next meeting: Monday 30 Jan 1400 UTC
14:58:04 [Zakim]
This conference is scheduled to end in 2 minutes; all ports must be freed
14:59:02 [Zakim]
This conference is scheduled to end in 1 minute; all ports must be freed
14:59:51 [Zakim]
14:59:53 [Zakim]
14:59:54 [Zakim]
14:59:54 [Zakim]
14:59:58 [Zakim]
14:59:59 [Zakim]
SW_BPD(rdfxhtml)9:00AM has ended
15:00:01 [Zakim]
Attendees were Ralph, Ben_Adida, Steven, Mark_Birbeck, Jeremy
15:04:43 [jeremy]
jeremy has joined #swbp
15:11:52 [RalphS]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
15:11:56 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate RalphS
15:12:14 [benadida]
benadida has left #swbp
15:14:56 [Steven]
rrsagent is slow producing thos minutes
15:15:34 [Steven]
Chair: Ben
15:53:06 [danbri]
danbri has joined #swbp
16:03:06 [jeremy]
jeremy has joined #swbp
16:03:07 [jeremy]
jeremy has left #swbp
16:52:19 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #swbp
17:13:35 [RalphS]
rrsagent, bye
17:13:35 [RRSAgent]
I see 3 open action items saved in :
17:13:35 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: contact WG and chairs to notify of mistake and prepare the new version. [1]
17:13:35 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
17:13:35 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Mark to send Ben his latest XML version of the Primer [2]
17:13:35 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
17:13:35 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Ben to draft full response to Bjoern's 2004 email [3]
17:13:35 [RRSAgent]
recorded in