IRC log of swbp on 2006-01-24

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:55:51 [RRSAgent]

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13:55:51 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/01/24-swbp-irc

13:55:57 [Zakim]

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13:56:01 [RalphS]

zakim, this will be swbp

13:56:01 [Zakim]

ok, RalphS; I see SW_BPD(rdfxhtml)9:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes

13:56:24 [RalphS]

Meeting: RDF-in-XHTML TF

13:57:22 [Steven]

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13:57:57 [RalphS]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2006Jan/0029.html

13:58:27 [RalphS]

Previous: 2006-01-17 http://www.w3.org/2006/01/17-swbp-minutes

14:00:05 [Zakim]

SW_BPD(rdfxhtml)9:00AM has now started

14:00:12 [Zakim]

+Ralph

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14:01:21 [benadida]

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14:01:39 [Zakim]

+Ben_Adida

14:02:09 [Steven]

zakim, dial steven-617

14:02:09 [Zakim]

ok, Steven; the call is being made

14:02:11 [Zakim]

+Steven

14:02:17 [Zakim]

+Mark_Birbeck

14:05:15 [RalphS]

Topic: change meeting day?

14:05:49 [RalphS]

Steven: Mondays ok up to 1500 UTC end

14:06:14 [RalphS]

s/1500/1600/

14:06:25 [RalphS]

... i.e. could start a 1-hour call as late as 1500 UTC

14:07:09 [RalphS]

Mark: Monday up to 1530 UTC end

14:07:22 [Zakim]

+??P3

14:07:34 [RalphS]

zakim, ??p3 is Jeremy

14:07:34 [Zakim]

+Jeremy; got it

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14:09:42 [RalphS]

Ben: Monday ok

14:11:09 [RalphS]

RESOLVED: TF telecons scheduled for 1400 UTC Mondays

14:12:40 [RalphS]

Topic: WD Status

14:12:55 [RalphS]

Ben: SWBPD WG approved RDF/A Primer to go to first public Working Draft

14:14:11 [RalphS]

Ralph: yes, the WG is expecting only small editorial changes now to the Editor's Draft

14:14:27 [RalphS]

Mark: there are still some small examples we wanted to get in

14:14:34 [RalphS]

... before it's a draft in public space

14:15:10 [RalphS]

... I posted a merged document with these examples last week

14:16:16 [RalphS]

Ralph: yes, I thought we were going to include Mark's merged stuff in what the WG reviewers saw

14:16:52 [RalphS]

Jeremy: propose that we create the version we meant to present and then tell the WG we made a mistake and ask the reviewers to look at [just] the additional text

14:18:01 [RalphS]

... we can ask this on the WG mailing list and the decision should involve the chairs

14:18:50 [benadida]

ACTION: contact WG and chairs to notify of mistake and prepare the new version.

14:19:20 [RalphS]

ACTION: Mark to send Ben his latest XML version of the Primer

14:22:01 [benadida]

ACTION: Ben to draft full response to Bjoern's 2004 email

14:22:31 [jeremy]

which URL for this e-mail?

14:23:48 [benadida]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2004Nov/0007

14:25:08 [RalphS]

[PENDING] ACTION: All in the TF to look at http://www.w3.org/2005/05/hrel/ to decide whether it's ready for WG review [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/17-swbp-minutes#action03]

14:25:37 [RalphS]

Mark: I recall looking at this ages ago and there was one issue, perhaps about use of types for documents

14:25:47 [RalphS]

Steven: something about resource and document

14:26:00 [RalphS]

Mark: something that required documentation, raised by Dan

14:26:33 [RalphS]

[DONE] ACTION: Ben draft a response to Gary Ng's comments [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/17-swbp-minutes#action04]

14:26:42 [RalphS]

[DONE] ACTION: Ben respond to Pat's RDF/A comments [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/17-swbp-minutes#action01]

14:26:51 [RalphS]

[PENDING] ACTION: Ben to draft a new example of RDF/A as an XHTML document that is its own RSS feed [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/17-swbp-minutes#action05]

14:27:20 [RalphS]

[DONE] ACTION: Steven confirm an answer on issue 6 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/17-swbp-minutes#action02]

14:27:28 [Steven]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2006Jan/0018.html

14:28:35 [RalphS]

Steven: my conclusion is that although there are cases where it can be useful, it causes more problems than it solves

14:28:54 [RalphS]

... so this is a place where we should duplicate the URL

14:29:34 [RalphS]

Ralph: seems simpler to duplicate the data than complicate the rules

14:29:46 [RalphS]

Steven: I considered several different approaches

14:30:06 [RalphS]

... each one either made another useful use case disappear or made it less obvious what was being expressed

14:30:27 [RalphS]

Jeremy: @about overriding @src was the cleanest one in my mind

14:31:22 [RalphS]

... KISS does seem to argue against this override

14:31:45 [MarkB]

q+

14:32:19 [RalphS]

... simpler rules at the expense of occasionally having to duplicate seems acceptable but let's document this and be sure to apply it consistently

14:32:51 [RalphS]

Mark: rather than putting src in the same category as href and about, let's say IMG becomes an anonymous node

14:33:16 [RalphS]

... so the element IMG has a title rather than the resource at foo.png

14:35:54 [RalphS]

Ralph: why is it useful to say that a bnode has a title?

14:38:09 [RalphS]

Mark: there's a general issue about using URIs to sometimes refer to one thing (a document) and sometimes refer to another thing (e.g. a person)

14:38:33 [RalphS]

Ralph: that's a mess we need to clean up -- and the TAG has proposed a solution

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14:39:17 [RalphS]

Mark: when we add a property to an image, folk who go retrieve that image won't find the title text

14:40:06 [RalphS]

Jeremy: I tend to think that one can always improve the quality of a model -- that is, the accuracy -- by adding another level of bnodes

14:41:29 [RalphS]

... people who are satisfied with the model they have argue against adding layers of bnodes

14:42:10 [RalphS]

Mark: Steven? pointed out last week that src was identifying the object rather than the subject

14:42:42 [RalphS]

... it's as if <img> were <span rel='image' href='foo.png'>

14:43:11 [RalphS]

s/img/img src='foo.png'/

14:43:54 [RalphS]

Ben: if you include META and LINK within IMG now then those properties are attached to the image element

14:44:34 [RalphS]

Mark: src can be on any element; what it points to depends on the element

14:44:44 [RalphS]

... so it's like href

14:45:03 [RalphS]

Steven: intuitively, more authors will think src is like href -- and not a subject

14:46:02 [RalphS]

TENTATIVE CONCLUSION: src is like href and does not identify a triple subject

14:46:21 [RalphS]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: Ben start separate mail threads on remaining discussion topics

14:46:36 [RalphS]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: Jeremy followup on <head about=...> edge case

14:47:01 [benadida]

http://www.w3.org/2006/01/17-swbp-minutes

14:47:06 [RalphS]

http://www.w3.org/2006/01/17-swbp-minutes#ActionSummary[CONTINUES] ACTION: Jeremy followup with Mark on the question of multiple triples from nested meta and add to issues list

14:47:11 [RalphS]

http://www.w3.org/2006/01/17-swbp-minutes#ActionSummary

14:47:27 [RalphS]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: Jeremy followup with Mark on the question of multiple triples from nested meta and add to issues list

14:48:35 [RalphS]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: Jeremy propose wording on reification

14:50:01 [Zakim]

This conference is scheduled to end in 10 minutes; all ports must be freed

14:50:19 [RalphS]

Mark: we may want to devote an entire telecon to the related reification question

14:52:16 [RalphS]

Jeremy: reification is not must-have for me; it's too broken

14:55:02 [Zakim]

This conference is scheduled to end in 5 minutes; all ports must be freed

14:55:06 [RalphS]

rrsagent, please make this record public

14:56:37 [RalphS]

Ben: can we try to take up nested META, reification, and the implementation on 13 Feb?

14:56:53 [RalphS]

Jeremy: [reluctantly] will try

14:57:20 [jeremy]

Jeremy: using named graphs in RDF/A is to big a step from current SW standards

14:57:35 [jeremy]

(relates to earlier discussion about reification)

14:57:49 [RalphS]

next meeting: Monday 30 Jan 1400 UTC

14:58:04 [Zakim]

This conference is scheduled to end in 2 minutes; all ports must be freed

14:59:02 [Zakim]

This conference is scheduled to end in 1 minute; all ports must be freed

14:59:51 [Zakim]

-Steven

14:59:53 [Zakim]

-Ralph

14:59:54 [Zakim]

-Mark_Birbeck

14:59:54 [Zakim]

-Ben_Adida

14:59:58 [Zakim]

-Jeremy

14:59:59 [Zakim]

SW_BPD(rdfxhtml)9:00AM has ended

15:00:01 [Zakim]

Attendees were Ralph, Ben_Adida, Steven, Mark_Birbeck, Jeremy

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15:11:52 [RalphS]

rrsagent, please draft minutes

15:11:56 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/01/24-swbp-minutes.html RalphS

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15:14:56 [Steven]

rrsagent is slow producing thos minutes

15:15:34 [Steven]

Chair: Ben

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17:13:35 [RalphS]

rrsagent, bye

17:13:35 [RRSAgent]

I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/24-swbp-actions.rdf :

17:13:35 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: contact WG and chairs to notify of mistake and prepare the new version. [1]

17:13:35 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/24-swbp-irc#T14-18-50

17:13:35 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Mark to send Ben his latest XML version of the Primer [2]

17:13:35 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/24-swbp-irc#T14-19-20

17:13:35 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ben to draft full response to Bjoern's 2004 email [3]

17:13:35 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/24-swbp-irc#T14-22-01