15:58:23 RRSAgent has joined #dawg 15:58:23 logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/01/12-dawg-irc 15:58:33 agenda + test suite maintenance 15:58:40 zakim seems lagged 15:58:58 +??P1 15:59:09 zakim, ??P1 is me 15:59:14 +AndyS; got it 15:59:56 +[IPcaller] 16:00:11 Zakim, [IPcaller] is me 16:00:11 +jeen; got it 16:00:11 zakim, please dial ericP-415 16:00:13 ok, ericP; the call is being made 16:00:14 +EricP 16:01:06 +DanC 16:01:36 kendallclark has joined #dawg 16:01:38 Sergio, saw your message: the fix to the second part is to scope G' to the whole query, right? No more is needed. 16:01:44 +Kendall_Clark 16:02:15 http://www.w3.org/2006/01/10-dawg-minutes 16:02:23 The first part (distinguished variables) : I realised we don't really define the scope of variables and could handle it there. e.g. 16:02:38 +Lee_Feigenbaum 16:02:48 zakim, Lee_Feigenbaum is, not surprisingly, LeeF 16:02:48 I don't understand you, LeeF 16:02:53 Meeting: DAWG Weekly 16:02:54 didn't think you would 16:02:55 Chair: DanC 16:03:00 Scribe: Elias 16:03:05 Scribe: EliasT 16:03:05 zakim, Lee_Feigenbaum is LeeF 16:03:05 +LeeF; got it 16:03:14 +PatH 16:03:26 If SELECT'ed, then distinguished. If mentioned in two separate BGPs in teh same query ,distinguished (inc bnodes). Else not distingusihed. 16:03:33 (not $$ charity! :>) 16:03:35 +Jos_De_Roo 16:03:44 Andy, it's difficult to scope G' to the whole query because the algebra is separated form the BGP 16:03:50 Jos_De_Roo has joined #dawg 16:03:52 patH has joined #dawg 16:04:04 u need to use the same graph every time 16:04:32 So same G' for the whole query execution? 16:05:05 yes 16:05:26 Yes, neds to be same, but does not need to be G. See my email reply just sent. 16:05:49 Zakim, who's on the phone? 16:05:49 On the phone I see EliasT, AndyS, jeen, EricP, DanC, Kendall_Clark, LeeF, PatH, Jos_De_Roo 16:07:51 yeah, birth certificate if I can find it. ;> 16:07:58 http://www.w3.org/2006/01/10-dawg-minutes 16:08:42 RRSAgent, are you here? 16:08:42 I'm logging. Sorry, nothing found for 'are you here' 16:09:52 Souri has joined #dawg 16:10:14 Zakim, pick a scribe 16:10:14 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose PatH 16:10:33 Sergio, and about part 1 - that is about scoping of vars - can we explicitly define what we need? 16:10:33 Zakim, pick a scribe 16:10:33 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose EliasT 16:10:33 Zakim, pick a scribe 16:10:33 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose AndyS 16:10:46 AndyS at risk for end of 17Jan meeting 16:10:49 Zakim, pick a scribe 16:10:49 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Jos_De_Roo 16:11:33 scribe 17 Jan: AndyS, backed by DanC 16:11:43 scribe 17 Jan: AndyS, backed by DanC, KC 16:11:55 RESOLVED to meet next 17 Jan, noting DanC at risk 16:12:07 Zakim, who's on the phone? 16:12:07 On the phone I see EliasT, AndyS, jeen, EricP, DanC, Kendall_Clark, LeeF, PatH, Jos_De_Roo 16:13:04 Sergio - are you dialing into the telecon? 16:13:08 Jos is also offering to scribe 17 Jan. 16:13:22 though at risk 16:13:28 I'm trying but I've got problems with the skype account 16:13:54 whee! 16:14:15 Zakim, next item 16:14:15 agendum 1. "Convene, take roll, review records and agenda" taken up [from DanC] 16:14:23 Zakim, close item 1 16:14:23 agendum 1, Convene, take roll, review records and agenda, closed 16:14:24 I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 16:14:25 2. Issue: wsdlAbstractProtocol [from DanC] 16:14:27 Zakim, take up item 2 16:14:27 agendum 2. "Issue: wsdlAbstractProtocol" taken up [from DanC] 16:15:06 ACTION: KC to refine .wsdl description w.r.t. mime types [DONE] 16:15:43 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/proto-wd/sparql-protocol-query.wsdl 16:15:47 Zakim, who's talking? 16:15:57 DanC, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: AndyS (4%), jeen (11%), DanC (69%), Kendall_Clark (4%), EricP (4%) 16:16:45 sparql-protocol-types.xsd,v 1.17 2006/01/11 19:15:22 16:16:51 sparql-protocol-query.wsdl,v 1.17 2006/01/11 19:14:45 16:17:55 revision 1.17 16:17:55 date: 2006/01/11 19:14:45; author: kclark; state: Exp; lines: +4 -4 16:17:55 changed input and output serializations according to telcon on Tue (added "application/xml" to POST's input 16:17:55 and */* to GET's output 16:17:55 ---------------------------- 16:17:56 revision 1.16 16:17:58 date: 2006/01/09 20:14:21; author: kclark; state: Exp; lines: +7 -5 16:18:00 - added faultSerialization="*/*" to queryHttpGet and queryHttpPost 16:18:04 ---------------------------- 16:18:06 revision 1.15 16:18:08 date: 2006/01/09 19:59:32; author: kclark; state: Exp; lines: +52 -43 16:18:10 - updated WSDL namespace IRIs 16:18:12 - Singin', come out if things aren't said, Shoot an apple off my head 16:18:14 - you can't bind the same operation twice with the same name, so I split the HTTP binding of SparqlQuery.query into 16:18:17 a queryHttpGet binding and a queryHttpPost binding. Which kinda sucks, but works. 16:18:19 - removed wsdlx:safety="true" for the query operation, since we give it a POST binding (it's still safe in the relevant 16:18:22 sense, but it's not safe at the HTTP level) 16:18:24 - I either had binding faults wrong or the WSDL changed, but I replaced with ref="tns:MalformedQuery"...>, since binding fault components don't have a name property, but rather a ref property 16:18:30 - (fault|input|output)Serialization attributes now work roughly like Accept: headers in HTTP... You can specify more than 16:18:35 one IMT or you can specify IMT ranges (though WSDL discourages using range specifiers). Accordingly, I: 16:18:37 - added whttp:outputSerialization="application/sparql-results+xml, application/rdf+xml" to queryHttpGet binding 16:18:50 (this means if you want to return results in another IMT, you make a new binding, minimally) 16:18:52 - replaced queryHttpPost's whttp:inputSerialization type (which was, inexplicably, set to "multipart/form-data") with 16:18:55 the proper value "application/x-www-form-urlencoded" 16:18:57 - set queryHttpPost's outputSerialization to the same as queryHttpGet's 16:19:27 whttp:outputSerialization="application/sparql-results+xml, application/rdf+xml, */*" 16:20:36 ack eric 16:21:09 I have to run away for about 3 minutes, will stay dialled in and muted. 16:21:32 PROPOSED: that sparql-protocol-query.wsdl,v 1.17 , sparql-protocol-types.xsd,v 1.17 proto-wd/Overview.html 1.93 addresses issue wsdlAbstractProtocol 16:21:44 roger, patH 16:22:04 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/i18n/kanji-01-results.ttl to XML 16:22:39 back now. 16:23:25 What XML can one send in POST? Add application/xml+rdf for same hook for RDF? 16:24:40 AndyS: can there be both parameters in the URL and XML in the content body 16:24:49 LeeF: thinks so 16:25:00 (I presume andy means "... an match this WSDL interface decl") 16:26:21 -jeen 16:26:22 Yes - we need to serialize the request and query. 16:26:27 kendallclark: It's perfectly legal for an endpoint implementation to change how to take the in messages whether url parameters or content body in the HTTP implementation. 16:27:14 kendallclark: our WSDL only specifies bindings but says nothing how the service tag needs to be defined. 16:27:54 jeen_ has joined #dawg 16:28:12 An answer of "it's OK" is fine. 16:28:16 kendallclark: we could say that any changes in the service to our bindings could be considered illegal SPARQL, but it won't be illegal WSDL. 16:29:01 kendallclark: WSDL tools will try their best to do what we have designed. 16:29:03 blah blah blah! 16:29:11 kendallclark: blah blah blah. 16:29:16 heh :> 16:30:25 +??P22 16:30:33 Zakim, ??P22 is me 16:30:33 +jeen; got it 16:31:14 no one does, as far as i know 16:31:15 PROPOSED: that sparql-protocol-query.wsdl,v 1.17 , sparql-protocol-types.xsd,v 1.17 proto-wd/Overview.html 1.93 addresses issue wsdlAbstractProtocol 16:32:52 Souri2 has joined #dawg 16:33:55 Zakim, mute me 16:33:55 EliasT should now be muted 16:34:11 PROPOSED: that sparql-protocol-query.wsdl,v 1.17 , sparql-protocol-types.xsd,v 1.17 proto-wd/Overview.html 1.93 section 2. SPARQL Protocol addresses issue wsdlAbstractProtocol 16:34:14 Editorial : "Section 5: References: normative" but it has B informative : s/5/5.A/ ?? 16:34:17 PROPOSED: that sparql-protocol-query.wsdl,v 1.17 , sparql-protocol-types.xsd,v 1.17 proto-wd/Overview.html 1.93 section 2. SPARQL Protocol (less 2.2.1 )addresses issue wsdlAbstractProtocol 16:34:18 zakim, mute me 16:34:18 Kendall_Clark should now be muted 16:34:48 yep, that's right Andy 16:34:56 zakim, unmute me 16:34:56 Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted 16:35:37 RESOLVED, PatH abstaining 16:36:26 (marsh is really pending. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2005Dec/0046 ) 16:37:10 pls visit http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/lc-status-report.html 16:37:50 HTTP Status Codes for QueryRequestRefused 16:37:50 * 2005-11-01T19:40:55Z from leigh 16:37:50 * 2006-01-05T05:01:42Z from kendall 16:38:34 ACTION KC: send an [OK?] msg re HTTP Status Codes for QueryRequestRefused 16:39:48 ... and to paul etc. 16:40:08 Zakim, next item 16:40:08 agendum 3. "Toward updated protocol WD (and results format WD)" taken up [from DanC] 16:40:32 ack ericP 16:40:42 zakim, mute me 16:40:42 LeeF should now be muted 16:41:36 ACTION: EricP to propose text on behalf of the W3C team about security and policy 16:42:19 ericP: He has a spoken comment from Thomas that he would like to put on text 16:42:50 -> http://incubator.apache.org/woden/ a WSDL 2.0 validator 16:45:06 kendallclark: I'm a satisfied with the security and policy text in the protocol draft. However, Graham has almost convinced that there are some issues that need to be addressed. 16:45:26 kendallclark: It would make sense in the W3C folks could harmonize and give me one text, but if not I'll have to do it myself. 16:46:14 kendallclark: If ericP sends me a list of the URIs with the issues, I'll address all of the issues this afternoon. 16:46:41 ACTION: EricP send KC all the team input on policy, cc DanC 16:47:21 ACTION: KC consider policy input and let us know what text results 16:47:48 action -3 16:48:07 . ACTION: Jeen try to reproduces EliasT's protocol testing results 16:48:34 WITHDRAWN. 16:49:13 DanC: May I remove the shaming list of pending comments on the doc? 16:49:45 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/rf1/ 16:49:48 yes, KC 16:50:49 mf:result 16:51:26 JB: steve is aware 16:52:03 jeen: I have added another test for ordered/unordered results. It can be found at http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/rf1/ 16:52:22 DanC: I was unaware of support for .srx files in QL test suite. 16:52:28 PROPOSED: to publish protocol editor's draft version 1.89 2006/01/07 21:31:23 + @@changes reviewed by @@whom, results format version 1.78 of 2006/01/04 15:59:22 + @@changes (example of... darn; forgot) reviewed by @@whom as 2nd Last Call WD. 16:53:33 PROPOSED: to publish protocol editor's draft version 1.93 policy section changes reviewed by KC, EP/DC; results format version 1.78 of 2006/01/04 15:59:22 as 2nd Last Call WD. 16:54:21 "A conformant SPARQL Protocol service" 16:54:42 hypertext anchor, pls 16:54:45 KC: ok 16:55:16 kendallclark: I have added a new term that defines "A conformat SPARQL Protocol service". 16:55:40 "This set of documents comprises the ^specification of^ the SPARQL Protocol" 16:57:23 *grr* 16:57:24 libby has joined #dawg 16:59:06 in my calendar and everything 17:00:35 coolio 17:00:38 PROPOSED: to publish protocol editor's draft version 1.93 policy section changes reviewed by KC, EP/DC + hypertext anchor in conformance; results format version 1.78 of 2006/01/04 15:59:22 as 2nd Last Call WD, with comments due 27 Jan (provided we can publish near 13 Jan) 17:00:38 is it now? 17:00:50 yes, started an hour ago. join the fun. 17:00:51 15 minutes left today, libby 17:00:52 15 more min 17:00:54 sorry again 17:01:03 Zakim, who's on the phone? 17:01:03 On the phone I see EliasT (muted), AndyS, EricP, DanC, Kendall_Clark, LeeF (muted), PatH, Jos_De_Roo, jeen 17:01:12 Zakim, unmute me please 17:01:12 EliasT should no longer be muted 17:01:21 ack EliasT 17:01:34 zakim, unmute me 17:01:34 LeeF should no longer be muted 17:02:30 (hmm.. I see 1.95 now...) 17:02:35 +Libby_Miller 17:03:00 A conformant SPARQL Protocol service may provide a default RDF dataset against which SPARQL query requests are executed in cases where there is no RDF dataset specified in the protocol or in the query request. A conformant SPARQL Protocol service may refuse to process any query request that does not specify an RDF dataset. Finally, a conformant SPARQL Protocol service may refuse to process any query request against any specified RDF dataset. See 2.1.4 query Fau 17:03:02 1.94 and 1.95 are TOC tweaks, evidently 17:03:07 yep 17:03:13 PROPOSED: to publish protocol editor's draft version 1.95 + policy section changes reviewed by KC, EP/DC + hypertext anchor in conformance; results format version 1.78 of 2006/01/04 15:59:22 as 2nd Last Call WD, with comments due 27 Jan (provided we can publish near 13 Jan) 17:03:49 ack leeF 17:04:19 Ah, there is an HTML anchor for "conformant SPARQL Protocol service": 17:04:23 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/proto-wd/#conf 17:04:27 not a very good one, mind 17:05:36 -EliasT 17:05:56 so RESOLVED. 17:06:02 ACTION DanC: noodle on status 17:06:09 ACTION KC: tell EricP when you're done 17:06:12 ACTION EricP: publish 17:07:45 I cannot dialin, system says the conference's restricted 17:08:25 try *0 sert 17:08:33 ask amy toput you through 17:08:42 kendallclark: One outstanding comment from Reto 17:09:11 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/lc-status-report.html 17:09:55 Zakim, next item 17:09:55 agendum 4. "issues rdfSemantics, owlDisjunction" taken up [from DanC] 17:10:10 Ah, well, Reto says his comments are "minor, editorial" so maybe we're okay anyway 17:10:20 Zakim, close item 4 17:10:20 agendum 4, issues rdfSemantics, owlDisjunction, closed 17:10:25 I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 17:10:25 Zakim, next item 17:10:27 5. issues#valueTesting [from DanC] 17:10:28 agendum 5. "issues#valueTesting" taken up [from DanC] 17:10:50 -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#boolean-logical-or EBV result is the same as xsd:boolean 17:10:53 -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#boolean-equiv-false "false"^^xsd:boolean = "0"^^xsd:boolean 17:10:56 -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#boolean-equiv-true "true"^^xsd:boolean = "1"^^xsd:boolean 17:10:59 -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#boolean-equiv-xsdtype T=T T=1 1=T 1=1 F=F F=0 0=F 0=0 17:11:37 ACTION: PatH revise Enrico's "Proposed changes" on matching and entailment for solution sequences, esp w.r.t. RDFmerge/order [CONTINUES] 17:11:46 ACTION: Enrico to review draft text on matching and entailment for solution sequences [CONTINUES] 17:11:48 q+ to note bug: rdfs:value should be rdf:value 17:11:54 # ACTION: JosD to make test case from Sergio's basic query patterns examples [CONTINUES] 17:11:59 ACTION: JosD to make test case from Sergio's basic query patterns examples 17:12:07 ACTION: DanC to review test README re "logically equivalent" vs graph equivalent [CONTINUES] 17:14:01 ack danc 17:14:01 DanC, you wanted to note bug: rdfs:value should be rdf:value 17:14:36 zakim, please mute me 17:14:36 LeeF should now be muted 17:15:00 Jos_De_Roo: rdfs: value -- the full URI -- is nonexistent 17:15:35 (above the Data) 17:15:36 q+ to move to adjourn 17:15:47 boolean-logical-OR 17:15:48 NotApproved 17:15:48 Various lexical forms of xsd:boolean equal an EBV.. 17:15:48 Data 17:15:54 "Various lexical forms of xsd:boolean equal an EBV.." 17:16:23 ericP: already fixed double period typo 17:16:46 ack LeeF 17:16:51 New test is boolean-EBV-canonical ?? 17:17:22 ADJOURN. 17:17:30 -Libby_Miller 17:17:44 -jeen 17:17:49 RRSAgent, make logs world-access 17:17:56 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 17:17:56 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/01/12-dawg-minutes.html LeeF 17:18:54 Jos_De_Roo, i lost the end of your text 17:19:01 what were you saying? 17:19:06 yeah, jos, short-hands for true/false is propagating thru cwm-talk and turtle and such 17:19:39 -Kendall_Clark 17:19:40 can we write t:ftext rdf:value false . 17:20:32 yes - it is legal SPARQL. 17:22:17 gotta go. Bye. 17:22:23 -PatH 17:22:48 Jos_De_Roo, I agree that it's legal 17:22:58 ok, is clear now that we can write t:ftext rdfs:value "false"^^xsd:boolean . 17:22:59 i wonder if it's worth a test 17:23:44 oops.. rdf:value 17:23:48 :-) 17:23:52 :) 17:24:46 ARQ will have probs with \U because of Java 1.4 (and 1.5 is only halfway there :-|) 17:26:03 SerT has left #dawg 17:26:25 Odd note: Eric found: \U does not allow \U00001234 (first 4 zeros) - is that a problem? 17:29:14 -Jos_De_Roo 17:30:11 -DanC 17:30:17 -AndyS 17:30:19 -LeeF 17:30:26 -EricP 17:30:27 SW_DAWG()11:00AM has ended 17:30:28 Attendees were EliasT, AndyS, jeen, EricP, DanC, Kendall_Clark, LeeF, PatH, Jos_De_Roo, Libby_Miller 17:30:33 LeeF has left #dawg 17:45:11 EnricoFranconi has joined #dawg 17:55:02 jeen? 17:55:12 About the rf1 tests 17:55:32 The data and the results don't match for the XMLliteral 17:55:43 Sometimes it's , sometimes 17:55:58 Sometimes it's "Alice" sometimes "alice" 17:56:16 If I tweak those, ARQ passes the tests :-) 18:39:16 LeeF_ has joined #dawg 19:10:26 LeeF has joined #dawg 19:10:28 LeeF has left #dawg 19:25:45 Zakim has left #dawg 20:55:54 libby has joined #dawg 21:01:47 SteveH has joined #dawg 21:30:36 SteveH has joined #dawg