14:31:42 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dawg
14:31:42 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/01/10-dawg-irc
14:31:48 <Zakim> +DanC
14:32:26 <Zakim> +Kendall_Clark
14:32:34 <Zakim> +Elias_Torres
14:32:40 <Zakim> +Libby_Miller
14:32:41 <DanC> mirrors are slow; you might try http://jimbo.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/weekly-agenda
14:32:56 <EliasT> Zakim, Elias_Torres is me
14:32:56 <Zakim> +EliasT; got it
14:33:10 <DanC> Zakim, take up item 1
14:33:10 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Convene, take roll, review records and agenda" taken up [from DanC]
14:33:12 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:33:13 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
14:33:14 <DanC> Zakim, who's on the phone?
14:33:14 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, DanC, Kendall_Clark, EliasT, Libby_Miller, [IPcaller], [IPcaller.a]
14:33:25 <SteveH> Zakim, IPcaller is me
14:33:25 <Zakim> +SteveH; got it
14:33:39 <EnricoFranconi> zakim, IPcaller.a is me
14:33:39 <Zakim> +EnricoFranconi; got it
14:33:54 <DanC> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JanMar/att-0042/05-01-minutes.html minutes 5 Jan
14:34:19 <DanC> Zakim, who's on the phone?
14:34:19 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, DanC, Kendall_Clark, EliasT, Libby_Miller, SteveH, EnricoFranconi
14:34:42 <DanC> regrets: Jeen Broekstra
14:34:47 <SteveH> RESOLVED to accept minuites of 5 Jan as record of previous meeting
14:35:06 <sd> sd has joined #dawg
14:35:33 <ericP> zakim, please dial Hugo-617
14:35:33 <Zakim> ok, ericP; the call is being made
14:35:34 <DanC> PROPOSED: to meet next Thu 12 Jan 1600Z. scribe?
14:35:34 <Zakim> +Hugo
14:35:54 <DanC> Zakim, pick a scribe
14:35:54 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose EliasT
14:36:04 <Jos_De_Roo> Jos_De_Roo has joined #dawg
14:36:09 <ericP> zakim, Hugo is temporarily ericP
14:36:09 <Zakim> +ericP; got it
14:36:09 <libby> too late!
14:36:24 <DanC> RESOLVED: to meet next Thu 12 Jan 1600Z. scribe: Elias
14:36:36 <Zakim> +Jos_De_Roo
14:36:45 <DanC> you might check your calendar for 17Jan, libby
14:37:24 <patH> patH has joined #dawg
14:37:26 <AndyS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/semantic-web/2006Jan/0086.html
14:37:33 <DanC> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JanMar/0047.html
14:37:48 <Zakim> +PatH
14:38:00 <kendallclark> happy birthday jos!
14:38:11 <Zakim> -EnricoFranconi
14:38:25 <kendallclark> A Chimay on us, Jos!
14:38:31 <Jos_De_Roo> thanks to all!!!
14:38:51 <DanC> Zakim, next item
14:38:51 <Zakim> agendum 2. "issues#wsdlAbstractProtocol" taken up [from DanC]
14:39:30 <DanC> KC reports progress in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JanMar/0048.html
14:39:48 <DanC> sparql-protocol-query.wsdl,v 1.15 2006/01/09 19:59:32
14:40:04 <ericP> SteveH, can you do a quick update and build the tests?
14:40:21 <SteveH> ericP, no, sorry, my machine is in eadth-swap
14:40:56 <ericP> I'll try on spam.w3.org
14:41:29 <DanC> KC: there are now 2 bindings
14:41:36 <SerT> SerT has joined #dawg
14:43:30 <patH> fine
14:43:38 <SteveH> kendall: WSDL and working groups understanding are now in sync (?)
14:43:50 <DanC> RRSAgent, pointer?
14:43:50 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2006/01/10-dawg-irc#T14-43-50
14:44:01 <SerT> I'm logged in
14:44:10 <kendallclark> If you want all the gory details, see the checkin message for 1.16
14:44:11 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:44:14 <SerT> hi everybody
14:44:16 <patH> hi sergio
14:44:24 <EnricoFranconi> zakim, IPcaller is me
14:44:24 <Zakim> +EnricoFranconi; got it
14:44:34 <kendallclark> I was hoping to ask Hugo and someone in DAWG for review.
14:44:37 <patH> hi enrico
14:44:45 <Zakim> +[IBMCambridge]
14:44:46 <LeeF> zakim, IBMCambridge is temporarily LeeF
14:44:47 <Zakim> +LeeF; got it
14:45:27 <kendallclark> LeeF: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/proto-wd/sparql-protocol-query.wsdl
14:45:49 <LeeF> thx
14:46:52 <DanC> Zakim, mute EnricoFranconi 
14:46:52 <Zakim> EnricoFranconi should now be muted
14:47:12 <SteveH> kendall: 2 things about the design that are not obvious: cant have a conformant SPARQL service that returns N3 (or anything other than RDF/XML for graphs)
14:47:43 <SteveH> kendall: if it accepts an XML query format, thats not legal either
14:48:07 <SteveH> kendall: need to create new binding and interface if you want to do that
14:49:31 <SteveH> kendall: can say it returns application/*, or list the return type explicitly
14:50:24 <kendallclark> zakim, mute me
14:50:24 <Zakim> Kendall_Clark should now be muted
14:50:57 <AndyS> DanC: N3 designers may be after text/*
14:50:59 <kendallclark> sorry, I missed Pat's comments ;>
14:51:14 <kendallclark> I'm happy to list more IMTs explicitly
14:51:50 <kendallclark> zakim, unmute me
14:51:50 <Zakim> Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted
14:51:52 <SteveH> DanC: I think it should be */*
14:53:57 <SteveH> PatH: agree that its asymmetric (in v's out variation), but dont want multiple input formats
14:54:22 <SteveH> DanC: you have to be prepared to throw away in/out puts that you dont understand
14:54:40 <Zakim> +Bijan_Parsia
14:55:51 <SteveH> AndyS: input serialisation is about the wrapper, not the query string (?)
14:56:27 <patH> for the record, I'd like multi formats both ways. BUt I think asymmetry with one end freee is betr than both ends constrained.
14:56:42 <SteveH> patH, sorry! misunderstood
14:56:45 <patH> OK
14:58:55 <kendallclark> 2.2.1.11 is an example
15:02:07 <SteveH> [p]
15:02:59 <SteveH> Danc: want to put the WSDL protocol question on thursday
15:03:30 <ericP-telnet> ericP-telnet has joined #dawg
15:03:59 <SteveH> kendall: will add */* to the output serialisations
15:04:36 <AndyS> DanC is correct - I was working through the issues.
15:05:09 <kendallclark> LeeF
15:05:12 <SteveH> thx
15:05:36 <SteveH> LeeF: SOAP is left as RDF/XML root element, with contents unconstrained
15:05:46 <AndyS> One is that we say in rq23 that "A SPARQL query string is a Unicode character string ... in the language defined by the following grammar".
15:06:18 <ericP-telnet> having irc client challenges -- using telnet
15:06:36 <SteveH> LeeF: thats the only way you could return content, eg. put N3 in RDF root element as text
15:07:30 <SteveH> kendall: group of people who want to use SOAP probably dont overlap much with people who want to use N3
15:07:48 <DanC> ACTION KC: refine .wsdl description w.r.t. mime types
15:08:00 <ericP> ericP has joined #dawg
15:08:43 <DanC> ericp, re-poke re policy foo
15:08:44 <kendallclark> BTW, this action:  review sparql-types for xs:any weirdness is finally DONE
15:08:50 <ericP-telnet> will do
15:09:09 <DanC> Zakim, next item
15:09:09 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Toward updated protocol WD (and results format WD)" taken up [from DanC]
15:09:54 <kendallclark> (I say "no work has been done" as the slackerist WG member! :>)
15:10:01 <DanC> ACTION: EliasT to recruit somebody to try out the protocol test harness, perhaps from the -comments list [DONE]
15:10:30 <DanC> Elias: looks like Richard and I should have something next week
15:11:18 <SteveH> EliasT: just have to update the python tests to be insync with joseki
15:11:19 <ericP-telnet> ACTION: EricP to pester W3C folks about unified comments on security and policy
15:12:07 <SteveH> EliasT: mostly read automatically from spec, but there are some that are purposly broken (includes ...)
15:13:13 <LeeF> I will.
15:13:27 <LeeF> Elias will point me to the example in question.
15:13:50 <LeeF> I've got an hour to kill writing long, creative SPARQL queries.
15:13:53 <kendallclark> I just don't have time to be more creative! :>
15:14:03 <AndyS> SPARQL allows duplicate triple patterns - it can be :s :p :o x1000
15:14:08 <SteveH> DanC: the exmaple should cross the traditional URL length limit
15:14:51 <DanC> ACTION: Jeen try to reproduces EliasT's protocol testing results [CONTINUES]
15:14:57 <DanC> Zakim, next item
15:14:57 <Zakim> agendum 4. "protocol testing update" taken up [from DanC]
15:15:02 <DanC> Zakim, close item 4
15:15:02 <Zakim> agendum 4, protocol testing update, closed
15:15:03 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:15:04 <Zakim> 5. issues#rdfSemantics, issues#owlDisjunction [from DanC]
15:15:08 <DanC> Zakim, next item
15:15:08 <Zakim> agendum 5. "issues#rdfSemantics, issues#owlDisjunction" taken up [from DanC]
15:15:32 <EnricoFranconi> zakim, unmute me
15:15:32 <Zakim> EnricoFranconi should no longer be muted
15:16:04 <SteveH> patH: 2nd mail is not sent yet
15:16:11 <DanC> Subject: 	bnodeification (was: Re: SPARQL semantics: open issues for basic  query patterns)
15:16:11 <DanC> Date: 	Mon, 9 Jan 2006 17:27:19 -0600
15:16:27 <SteveH> patH: mail num. 1 goes beyond the action item because theres a proposal in there
15:17:47 <SteveH> patH: allows extra redundancy in the answer set, in order to maintain the simplicity of the definitions, but there is a way to reduce the redundancy
15:17:50 <LeeF> EnricoFranconi: latest definitions are not the same as original subgraph matching definitions 
15:19:45 <SteveH> Zakim, mute me
15:19:45 <Zakim> SteveH should now be muted
15:20:31 <SteveH> Zakim, unmute me
15:20:31 <Zakim> SteveH should no longer be muted
15:21:58 <SteveH> EnricoFranconi: it is important for interoperability that services should return same answers from a lean and non-lean graph (?)
15:24:05 <Souri> Souri has joined #dawg
15:24:43 <LeeF_> LeeF_ has joined #dawg
15:25:37 <LeeF_> LeeF_ has left #dawg
15:25:40 <LeeF_> LeeF_ has joined #dawg
15:25:48 <DanC> Pat, Enrico, I need to start wrapping up (unless I hear a proposal to extend)
15:27:48 <DanC> ACTION: PatH revise Enrico's "Proposed changes" on matching and entailment for solution sequences, esp w.r.t. RDFmerge/order [CONTINUES]
15:27:54 <ericP> keep going, guys!
15:27:58 <SteveH> patH: almost done with action, but not quite
15:27:59 <DanC> ACTION: Enrico to review draft text on matching and entailment for solution sequences [CONTINUES]
15:28:24 <Souri> (just fyi) Folks at our org have some comments that we hope to post by end of this week
15:28:55 <DanC> ACTION: Bijan to elaborate on test/example of foaf query where bnodes cross answers
15:29:12 <DanC> -- continues
15:29:14 <DanC> (I presume)
15:31:05 <DanC> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JanMar/0030.html from Enrico
15:31:22 <DanC> Enrico confirms that's current from him
15:31:25 <EnricoFranconi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JanMar/0030.html\
15:31:31 <DanC> Bijan proposes Andy incorporate that
15:31:50 <LeeF_> extend
15:31:53 <SteveH> i need to go
15:32:11 <SteveH> ericP: will take over scribing
15:32:26 <LeeF_> bye, SteveH
15:32:28 <Zakim> -SteveH
15:32:52 <EnricoFranconi> sorry about that
15:33:11 <EnricoFranconi> yes
15:33:37 <ericP> Enrico: the content of 0030 is roughly correct, but PatH is welcome to tinker with it
15:33:58 <ericP> Andy: this is clear except for result sets
15:34:03 <DanC> AndyS: I see how to incorproate 0030 , save for results set...
15:34:09 <ericP> PatH: I can add some explanatory text
15:34:17 <ericP> ... for result sets
15:34:32 <EnricoFranconi> ok for me
15:34:56 <ericP> PatH: may I s/RDF merge/ordered merge/ ?
15:35:02 <SerT> sure
15:35:45 <SerT> BTW ordered merge could be used to give a precise definition to the CONSTRUCT operator
15:35:56 <AndyS> Noted
15:36:27 <ericP> DanC: Andy, the text you incorporate will say "no" to PPS's use case?
15:36:30 <ericP> AndyS: yes
15:37:03 <ericP> Bijan: re redundancy on answer sets, does that affect distinct?
15:37:34 <EnricoFranconi> distinct and redundancy are different issues, I believe
15:38:12 <patH> I agree. 
15:38:28 <ericP> Bijan: so DISTINCT operates over syntactic redundancy, not logical redundancy
15:38:40 <LeeF_> LeeF_ has left #dawg
15:39:17 <DanC> ACTION: Bijan to elaborate on test/example of foaf query where bnodes cross answers [DONE]
15:39:35 <ericP> action -1
15:39:37 <DanC> Pat's msg of Mon, 9 Jan 2006 17:27:19 -0600 discharges bijan's action 
15:39:48 <ericP> action -8
15:40:10 <Zakim> -Bijan_Parsia
15:40:18 <ericP> ACTION: KC to refine .wsdl description w.r.t. mime types
15:40:23 <ericP> action -7
15:40:41 <Zakim> +Bijan_Parsia
15:40:50 <EnricoFranconi_> EnricoFranconi_ has joined #dawg
15:40:52 <LeeF> LeeF has joined #dawg
15:41:11 <AndyS> ""A test passes if the graph from the action is logically equivalent to the graph named in the result.""
15:41:15 <ericP> zakim, who is speaking?
15:41:18 <Zakim> -Bijan_Parsia
15:41:20 <DanC> ACTION DanC: review test README re "logically equivalent" vs graph equivalent
15:41:26 <Zakim> ericP, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: AndyS (5%), Bijan_Parsia (11%), DanC (41%), ericP (4%)
15:41:35 <DanC> ADJOURN.
15:41:44 <Zakim> -Jos_De_Roo
15:41:47 <Zakim> -EliasT
15:41:50 <Zakim> -PatH
15:41:53 <Zakim> -Libby_Miller
15:41:54 <patH> quit
15:42:01 <Souri> quit
15:42:12 <Zakim> -Kendall_Clark
15:42:24 <AndyS> AndyS has left #dawg
15:44:05 <ericP> rrsagent, please draft minutes
15:44:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/01/10-dawg-minutes.html ericP
15:47:24 <EnricoFranconi> EnricoFranconi has joined #dawg
15:48:51 <EnricoFranconi> bye all!
15:49:00 <Zakim> -EnricoFranconi
15:49:21 <LeeF> bye, EnricoFranconi
15:49:40 <SerT> bye everybody
15:50:11 <SerT> SerT has left #dawg
15:50:58 <Zakim> -DanC
15:51:47 <ericP> 2006-01-07T20:19:40Z <bjoern_> so if you have a normative statement that character references must represent legal XML 1.1 Chars, and an informative note that [^...] excludes anything that is not a Char per XML 1.1, I'd be happy
15:52:46 <afs_> afs_ has joined #dawg
15:52:55 <ericP> 2006-01-07T20:19:40Z <bjoern_> so if you have a normative statement that character references must represent legal XML 1.1 Chars, and an informative note that [^...] excludes anything that is not a Char per XML 1.1, I'd be happy
15:59:10 <Zakim> -LeeF
15:59:13 <LeeF> LeeF has left #dawg
16:13:46 <Zakim> -AndyS
16:13:51 <Zakim> -ericP
16:13:53 <Zakim> SW_DAWG()9:30AM has ended
16:13:54 <Zakim> Attendees were AndyS, DanC, Kendall_Clark, Libby_Miller, EliasT, SteveH, EnricoFranconi, ericP, Jos_De_Roo, PatH, LeeF, Bijan_Parsia
16:14:19 <ericP> RRSAgent, leave us
16:14:19 <RRSAgent> I see 7 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/10-dawg-actions.rdf :
16:14:19 <RRSAgent> ACTION: EliasT to recruit somebody to try out the protocol test harness, perhaps from the -comments list [DONE] [2]
16:14:19 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/10-dawg-irc#T15-10-01
16:14:19 <RRSAgent> ACTION: EricP to pester W3C folks about unified comments on security and policy [3]
16:14:19 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/10-dawg-irc#T15-11-19
16:14:19 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Jeen try to reproduces EliasT's protocol testing results [CONTINUES] [4]
16:14:19 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/10-dawg-irc#T15-14-51
16:14:19 <RRSAgent> ACTION: PatH revise Enrico's "Proposed changes" on matching and entailment for solution sequences, esp w.r.t. RDFmerge/order [CONTINUES] [5]
16:14:19 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/10-dawg-irc#T15-27-48
16:14:19 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Enrico to review draft text on matching and entailment for solution sequences [CONTINUES] [6]
16:14:19 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/10-dawg-irc#T15-27-59
16:14:19 <RRSAgent> ACTION: KC to refine .wsdl description w.r.t. mime types [9]
16:14:19 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/10-dawg-irc#T15-40-18
16:14:19 <RRSAgent> ACTION: DanC to review test README re "logically equivalent" vs graph equivalent [10]
16:14:19 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/10-dawg-irc#T15-41-20