15:59:39 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dawg
15:59:39 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/01/05-dawg-irc
15:59:43 <DanC> sergio gets a gold star for including test cases/examples in his msg of Thu, 5 Jan 2006 12:19:56 +0100 
15:59:59 <ericP> zakim, please dial Hugo-617
15:59:59 <Zakim> sorry, ericP, I don't know what conference this is
16:00:04 <DanC> Zakim, this is dawg
16:00:04 <Zakim> DanC, I see SW_DAWG()11:00AM in the schedule but not yet started.  Perhaps you mean "this will be dawg".
16:00:09 <DanC> Zakim, this will be dawg
16:00:10 <Zakim> ok, DanC; I see SW_DAWG()11:00AM scheduled to start now
16:00:10 <ericP> zakim, please dial Hugo-617
16:00:10 <Zakim> ok, ericP; the call is being made
16:00:12 <Zakim> SW_DAWG()11:00AM has now started
16:00:14 <Zakim> +Hugo
16:00:21 <Zakim> +DanC
16:00:25 <DanC> Zakim, Hugo is temporarily EricP
16:00:26 <Zakim> +EricP; got it
16:00:35 <Zakim> +??P21
16:00:40 <AndyS> zakim, ??P21 is AndyS
16:00:40 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
16:00:55 <Zakim> +[IBMCambridge]
16:01:08 <LeeF> zakim, [IBMCambridge] is temporarily LeeF
16:01:08 <Zakim> +LeeF; got it
16:01:30 <Zakim> + +1.813.933.aaaa
16:01:45 <EliasT> Zakim, +1.813.933.aaaa is EliasT
16:01:45 <Zakim> +EliasT; got it
16:02:00 <Zakim> +??P28
16:02:21 <jeen> Zakim, ??P28 is JeenB
16:02:21 <Zakim> +JeenB; got it
16:02:44 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:02:58 <EnricoFranconi> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
16:02:58 <Zakim> +EnricoFranconi; got it
16:03:05 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:03:14 <SteveH> Zakim, [IPcaller] is SteveH
16:03:14 <Zakim> +SteveH; got it
16:03:37 <EliasT> Zakim, please mute me
16:03:37 <Zakim> EliasT should now be muted
16:03:41 <SteveH> no :(
16:03:59 <DanC> Zakim, take up item 1
16:03:59 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Convene, take roll, review records and agenda" taken up [from DanC]
16:04:06 <DanC> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/weekly-agenda
16:04:15 <DanC> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005OctDec/att-0384/20-dawg-minutes.html minutes 20 Dec
16:04:58 <Zakim> +Kendall_Clark
16:05:05 <DanC> "update" agendum didn't get proper markup, but no biggy
16:05:24 <kendallclark> kendallclark has joined #dawg
16:05:30 <DanC> RESOLVED to accept DAWG Weekly -- 20 Dec 2005 as a true record
16:05:35 <kendallclark> sorry to be late, my IRC client went bad and I didn't realize it
16:05:48 <DanC> np KC; we're booting
16:06:06 <kendallclark> i also have a bad cough today, so i'll be muted as much as possible
16:06:14 <kendallclark> zakim, please mute me
16:06:14 <Zakim> Kendall_Clark should now be muted
16:06:19 <DanC> Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:06:19 <Zakim> On the phone I see EricP, DanC, AndyS, LeeF, EliasT (muted), JeenB, EnricoFranconi, SteveH, Kendall_Clark (muted)
16:07:05 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35463/exteljan2006/results
16:07:10 <Jos_De_Roo> Jos_De_Roo has joined #dawg
16:07:49 <DanC> Jeen Likely to miss january 10th.
16:08:16 <DanC> regrets Janne Saarela 5Jan
16:08:37 <DanC> regrets PatH
16:08:48 <DanC> regrets: Libby, Bijan(part)
16:08:57 <DanC> Zakim, pick a scribe
16:08:57 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose LeeF
16:08:57 <patH> patH has joined #dawg
16:09:02 <Zakim> +??P65
16:09:04 <bijan> I'm watching and can switch over at need
16:09:05 <LeeF> Go away, Zakim.
16:09:19 <DanC> Zakim, pick a scribe
16:09:20 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose EnricoFranconi
16:09:25 <Jos_De_Roo> Zaki, ??P65 is me
16:09:31 <Jos_De_Roo> Zakim, ??P65 is me
16:09:31 <Zakim> +Jos_De_Roo; got it
16:09:38 <DanC> Zakim, pick a scribe
16:09:38 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose SteveH
16:09:44 <Zakim> +PatH
16:10:24 <SteveH> i can do it if i get a mic working by then
16:10:33 <DanC> ok, I'll take it
16:10:48 <DanC> RESOLVED: to meet next 10 Jan, scribe SteveH (we hope)
16:11:05 <kendallclark> Hmm, I had a conflict about scribing next week because I didn't want to do it. Thanks, Zakim!
16:12:26 <kendallclark> rock!
16:12:44 <kendallclark> (i cleared several months old actions!! :>)
16:12:55 <DanC> ACTION: AndyS to respond re CONSTRUCT * [DONE]
16:13:21 <DanC> Zakim, next item
16:13:21 <Zakim> agendum 2. "# issues#wsdlAbstractProtocol" taken up [from DanC]
16:13:41 <kendallclark> zakim, unmute me
16:13:41 <Zakim> Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted
16:14:13 <DanC> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JanMar/0017.html Query by Reference
16:14:20 <DanC> KC  4 Jan 2006
16:15:22 <jeen> Kendall: leigh suggested we allow 'query by reference' in the protocol: point to location for query in request.
16:17:18 <jeen> Kendall: not particularly hard to do, not particularly compelled to add it either, happy to do what the WG wants (correct?)
16:17:42 <kendallclark> (yes)
16:18:00 <jeen> (jeen has some headphone trouble, difficult to understand speakers)
16:18:30 <Zakim> -AndyS
16:18:40 <AndyS> Hmm
16:18:48 <jeen> ericP: does not think it's risky, not very motivated to add it either.
16:18:59 <kendallclark> it's strongly analagous to what cwm does, I think. but YMMV.
16:19:18 <Zakim> +??P21
16:19:31 <AndyS> zakim, ??P21 is me
16:19:31 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
16:21:00 <jeen> Kendall: early version of the protocol draft had this feature
16:21:58 <EliasT> I second it.
16:22:00 <kendallclark> bad connect, sorry
16:22:53 <DanC> PROPOSED: to postpone queryByReference , due to lack of detailed implementation experience
16:23:06 <kendallclark> and i don't see any constraint on the size of the postponed issues list :>
16:23:14 <AndyS> +1
16:23:25 <DanC> so RESOLVED.
16:25:01 <DanC> ACTION KC: review sparql-types for xs:any weirdness, w.r.t. WSDL 2.0 constraints [DONE]
16:25:10 <DanC> ACTION: KendallC to propose revised WSDL descripton of SPARQL protocol [CONTINUES]
16:25:19 <kendallclark> we may in fact be WSDL 2.0's earliest adopter :>
16:26:20 <DanC> Zakim, next item
16:26:20 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Toward updated protocol WD (and results format WD)" taken up [from DanC]
16:26:26 <DanC> Zakim, close item 3
16:26:26 <Zakim> agendum 3, Toward updated protocol WD (and results format WD), closed
16:26:27 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:26:29 <DanC> Zakim, next item
16:26:29 <Zakim> 4. protocol testing update [from DanC]
16:26:31 <Zakim> agendum 4. "protocol testing update" taken up [from DanC]
16:26:52 <EliasT> Zakim, unmute me
16:26:52 <Zakim> EliasT should no longer be muted
16:27:03 <jeen> ACTION: Jeen try to reproduces EliasT's protocol testing results [CONTINUES]
16:27:38 <jeen> EliasT: am running it in python and java, using Andy's joseki stuff
16:27:48 <EliasT> Zakim, mute me
16:27:48 <Zakim> EliasT should now be muted
16:27:54 <DanC> ACTION: EliasT to recruit somebody to try out the protocol test harness, perhaps from the -comments list [CONTINUES]
16:28:07 <DanC> Zakim, next item
16:28:07 <Zakim> agendum 5. "issues#rdfSemantics, issues#owlDisjunction" taken up [from DanC]
16:28:22 <bijan> One sec
16:29:07 <DanC> from http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/weekly-agenda
16:29:12 <EnricoFranconi> my last thext is at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JanMar/0018
16:29:14 <DanC> "specific wording proposals 29 Dec and 2 Jan."
16:29:21 <EnricoFranconi> of today
16:29:25 <Zakim> +Bijan_Parsia
16:29:44 <bijan> zakim, mute me
16:29:44 <Zakim> Bijan_Parsia should now be muted
16:30:30 <kendallclark> bad ring on the line now
16:31:06 <DanC> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JanMar/0021.html sergion on rdfSemantics with test sketches
16:31:53 <LeeF> zakim, who's speaking?
16:32:06 <Zakim> LeeF, listening for 12 seconds I heard sound from the following: Kendall_Clark (23%), EricP (52%), DanC (30%), PatH (11%)
16:32:48 <kendallclark> thx eric
16:32:57 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
16:32:57 <Zakim> Bijan_Parsia should no longer be muted
16:33:21 <DanC> Re: SPARQL semantics: open issues for basic query patterns
16:35:15 <jeen> DanC: want to add test case from the example given in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JanMar/0021.html
16:35:26 <AndyS> The XML Results talks about labels scoped to the document
16:36:20 <bijan> ?x foaf:nick "Bijan". ?x ?p ?o.
16:37:44 <EnricoFranconi> the problem is that the current text is *not* equivalent to the original (and agreed upon) text using matching
16:37:53 <LeeF> sergio's query: SELECT * { ?x ?p ?y }
16:38:12 <Zakim> -JeenB
16:38:59 <LeeF> bijan: More unsettling problem is on coreference within results
16:39:19 <EnricoFranconi> all implementations use graph matching between the query and the data - the current text does not characterise that
16:40:11 <LeeF> patH: criteria should be entailment of the pattern by the graph. if you want proper coreference, include the coreference within the pattern
16:42:17 <LeeF> bijan: I'd expect coreferences between rows in the resultset anyway because if i have 2 people in my FOAF data with foaf:nick "Bijan" -- but other properties differ between the 2 -- it's important to relate the proper properties w/ the proper person
16:42:48 <LeeF> DanC: I don't think any of the proposed designs address this
16:43:12 <LeeF> DanC: none of the current proposed designs talk about anything beyond single query results
16:44:30 <AndyS> Nov 2 doc is Enrico/Sergio's SPARQL semantics doc
16:44:51 <bijan> I'm also going off of this passage in sergio's message:
16:44:51 <kendallclark> i can hear him, but no comprehension
16:44:53 <bijan> """In fact, bnodes in answer sets are really useful only to discover co- 
16:44:53 <bijan> references among different pattern solutions (or even within the same  
16:44:53 <bijan> one). This means that unless a bnode name is used in the "same way"  
16:44:53 <bijan> across different entailment checks, the user cannot trust bnodes in  
16:44:53 <bijan> an answer set."""
16:45:51 <Zakim> +Jeen_Broekstra
16:46:16 <DanC> design option, new to me: matching definitions that consider multiple answers, i.e. an answer set. (introduced Nov by Enrico, evidently)
16:47:11 <EnricoFranconi> without coreference bnodes in the answer are useless
16:47:21 <EnricoFranconi> you better get rid of them
16:47:33 <SteveH> my implementation does what bijan said
16:50:19 <AndyS> "Solution Sequence"
16:50:31 <DanC> ... http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/
16:50:32 <AndyS> sec 10.1
16:52:39 <DanC> Zakim, who's talking?
16:52:50 <Zakim> DanC, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Bijan_Parsia (4%), PatH (10%)
16:53:07 <kendallclark> gone now
16:53:33 <LeeF> heisenecho
16:54:35 <kendallclark> heh
16:55:08 <DanC> "The solution sequence from matching the query pattern is an unordered collection formed from the solutions of the query pattern."
16:56:30 <kendallclark> you hope, dan! :>
16:56:33 <EnricoFranconi> Did anybody read my proposed text?
16:56:39 <LeeF> yeah, that was very sneaky, Dan :)
16:56:44 <AndyS> Yes - I read it.
16:56:56 <EnricoFranconi> comments?
16:56:57 <patH> Enrico, I didnt but I am doing. 
16:57:11 <DanC> ACTION PatH: draft text on matching and entailment for solution sequences
16:57:34 <AndyS> Please can we discuss the other issue Sergio rasied (the not "unsettling" first one)
16:57:40 <EnricoFranconi> ok
16:57:46 <DanC> ACTION Enrico: review draft text on matching and entailment for solution sequences
16:57:54 <EnricoFranconi> but my text is already ok for this :-)
16:58:23 <EnricoFranconi> in fact
16:59:05 <patH> Yes, now I understand answer SET scoping, I think it will be easy to fix all of the issues Sergio raises. 
16:59:06 <DanC> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JanMar/0018.html Proposed changes by FUB
16:59:36 <LeeF> DanC: Does this proposal need a way to specify entailment types?
16:59:58 <EnricoFranconi> actually I will be happy even by leaving out alternative entailemnts
17:00:24 <EnricoFranconi> FUB is happy to have only the default simple entailemnt
17:00:32 <EnricoFranconi> I'll send a new text today
17:00:43 <AndyS> q+ to ask about Sergio's first example (short?)
17:00:59 <patH> q+ re entailment.
17:01:15 <kendallclark> indeed
17:01:45 <patH> I think Zakim thinks I am AndyS. Hmm, maybe I am?
17:02:25 <kendallclark> god. worst call quality ever.
17:02:38 <jeen> AndyS: there are still outstanding comments re rdf merge
17:02:40 <LeeF> good call content, though.
17:02:58 <kendallclark> yes
17:03:35 <LeeF> patH: two orthogonal questions: 1) scoping of bondes within results document  2) do we need to allow alternative entailments to be specified?
17:03:41 <EnricoFranconi> FUB is happy to postpone parametrised entailemnt, but with the current proposed text by FUB today
17:03:55 <LeeF> DanC: 2nd question has a consensus of postponing parametrised entailment, show where it would go in extensions
17:04:10 <EnricoFranconi> point (1) is solved by theorem 1 of the proposed text of today
17:04:50 <EnricoFranconi> so path revises my text I'll send out later today
17:05:13 <patH> OK. 
17:05:16 <DanC> ACTION 6 = PatH: revise Enrico's "Proposed changes" on matching and entailment for solution sequences, esp w.r.t. RDFmerge/order
17:06:12 <DanC> jos pls make test case from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JanMar/0021.html ?
17:06:17 <kendallclark> (oh! jos is here, I didn't realize. Hi Jos!)
17:06:22 <patH> Hi Jos
17:06:27 <DanC> ACTION JosD: make test case from  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JanMar/0021.html
17:07:47 <DanC> ACTION Bijan: elaborate on test/example of foaf query where bnodes cross answers
17:08:01 <AndyS> There may be one like that already (easy action!)
17:08:32 <bijan> yay!
17:08:59 <bijan> jeen, send them!
17:09:14 <DanC> Zakim, next item
17:09:14 <Zakim> agendum 6. "issues#valueTesting" taken up [from DanC]
17:09:16 <AndyS> q?
17:09:29 <kendallclark> *nasty*
17:09:34 <bijan> zakim, mute me
17:09:34 <Zakim> Bijan_Parsia should now be muted
17:09:35 <DanC> ACTION EricP: add test case for support of xsd:boolean (ala (?a = ?b) = "true"^^xsd:boolean ) [CONTINUES]
17:09:56 <kendallclark> zakim, mute me
17:09:57 <Zakim> Kendall_Clark should now be muted
17:10:51 <ericP> [[
17:10:52 <ericP> The canonical representation for boolean is the set of literals {true, false}.
17:10:53 <ericP> ]]
17:11:01 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-2/#boolean
17:11:45 <patH> Will we get grief from i18n for using English words in canonical forms?
17:12:02 <patH> That was NOT a joke.
17:12:20 <patH> Ah, OK.
17:12:22 <AndyS> Should rebuild value from any form.  So xfer should be safe.
17:12:27 <DanC> ack andy
17:12:27 <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to ask about Sergio's first example (short?)
17:12:59 <DanC> back to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JanMar/0021.html
17:13:31 <LeeF> q- re
17:13:36 <LeeF> q- entailment
17:13:46 <EnricoFranconi> it is not a typo: it shows that the current text is broken!
17:13:47 <AndyS> q-
17:14:48 <LeeF> Yes
17:15:00 <LeeF> I've got it.
17:15:32 <DanC> Zakim, next item
17:15:32 <Zakim> agendum 7. "Toward CR" taken up [from DanC]
17:15:49 <LeeF> 75 minutes ago
17:15:51 <kendallclark> 75 minutes ago
17:15:55 <LeeF> jinx
17:16:01 <kendallclark> time flies when yr torturing people! :>
17:16:05 <LeeF> No
17:16:22 <kendallclark> 2nd adjournment
17:16:40 <kendallclark> Do that after adjournment?
17:16:48 <DanC> ADJOURN.
17:17:10 <Zakim> -PatH
17:17:11 <kendallclark> zakim, unmute me
17:17:12 <Zakim> Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted
17:17:39 <EliasT> DanC, I have sent my email recruiting folks for help with the protocol test suite. cc connolly and eric @ w3.org
17:17:45 <jeen> jeen has joined #dawg
17:17:50 <kendallclark> hmm, I haven't been doing that. But I have been writing v. detailed checkin messages. ;>
17:18:10 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/lc-status-report.html
17:19:11 <LeeF> Thanks, everyone. I'll be around later.
17:19:14 <Zakim> -LeeF
17:19:45 <Zakim> -Bijan_Parsia
17:19:47 <Zakim> -Jos_De_Roo
17:19:55 <Zakim> -SteveH
17:20:38 <DanC> the I18N WG-relevant msg is http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2005Jul/0063
17:21:54 <DanC> "I'm happy to defer to the I18N Core WG in this issue." -- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2005Aug/0017.html
17:22:20 <Zakim> -Jeen_Broekstra
17:24:16 <DanC> 1.43 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/lc-status-report.html
17:25:06 <kendallclark> hmm, I'm gonna drop off, I think.
17:25:53 <EnricoFranconi> I have sent the new text to the list <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JanMar/0030>
17:26:26 <Zakim> -EnricoFranconi
17:27:15 <DanC> 2005-09-16T09:09:10Z from GK connected to warning stuff
17:27:25 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#kanji-01
17:28:27 <AndyS> And the test HTML code generation has got it wrong :-)
17:28:44 <AndyS> I see junk, not Kanji, in UTF-8
17:29:28 <kendallclark> heh, eric, i may need help making an example of this, as I'm a Unicode naif.
17:29:39 <SteveH> I see kanji, but the script way well be dodgy
17:29:55 <SteveH> 食:食べる 食:納豆 etc.
17:30:48 <AndyS> OK - must be me.  I've seen kanji with my FF.
17:33:57 <bijan> bijan has joined #dawg
17:34:14 <bijan> bijan has joined #dawg
17:39:36 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/lc-status-report.html
17:43:44 <kendallclark> okay, i'm off
17:43:48 <Zakim> -Kendall_Clark
17:44:53 <DanC> ack ericp
17:44:56 <ericP> help
17:46:28 <ericP> ACTION EricP: respond to, or at least consider, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2005Dec/0008
17:52:32 <EliasT> Later
17:52:35 <Zakim> -EliasT
17:53:30 <Zakim> -DanC
17:57:46 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2004/WS2/sws-demonstrator-planB
18:01:13 <Zakim> -AndyS
18:01:17 <AndyS> AndyS has left #dawg
18:01:27 <Zakim> -EricP
18:01:29 <Zakim> SW_DAWG()11:00AM has ended
18:01:30 <Zakim> Attendees were DanC, EricP, AndyS, LeeF, EliasT, JeenB, EnricoFranconi, SteveH, Kendall_Clark, Jos_De_Roo, PatH, Bijan_Parsia, Jeen_Broekstra
18:04:36 <DanC> er... hmm... I neglected to confirm who's going to finish up the minutes.
18:04:46 <DanC> RRSAgent, make logs world-access
18:15:31 <ericP> DanC, 4 boolean tests tested in algae and commited
18:15:43 <DanC> cool
18:16:08 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/ValueTesting/manifest.n3
18:16:14 <ericP> bottom four
18:19:34 <AndyS> cvs update
18:19:40 <AndyS> qtest manifest.n3
18:19:55 <AndyS> 1 failure : typePromotion-decimal-decimal-pass
18:20:00 <AndyS> checking ...
18:22:14 <AndyS> qexpr 'datatype("1"^^xsd:unsignedByte + "2"^^xsd:unsignedShort)'
18:22:17 <AndyS> => integer
18:22:32 <AndyS> but test tests for decimal.
18:23:04 <AndyS> test looks wrong
18:23:10 <AndyS> (Sorry)
18:26:02 <AndyS> Yep - uByte & uShort can be type promoted to integer so that takes precedence (and it's what Xerces does :)
18:28:19 <DanC> either (a) datatype should work on terms, rather than values, so that's a syntax error, or (b) both integer and decimal are correct answers; i.e. datatype isn't a function
18:28:49 <DanC> i.e. for the value 3 it's in the value space of both integer and decimal
18:30:40 <AndyS> F&O says uByte+uShort is xsd:integer and datatype is an accessor to the literal created (I thought that was the logic).  i.e. datatype on terms and discussion about whether  1+2 creates a new temporary term or not.  EricP?
18:31:52 <DanC> ok, if F&O chooses a canonical type for the result of x+y, very well
18:51:59 <LeeF_> LeeF_ has joined #dawg
19:06:54 <AndyS> AndyS has left #dawg
19:53:13 <Zakim> Zakim has left #dawg
21:04:11 <LeeF_> LeeF_ has left #dawg