ISSUE-135: STYLE_SHEET_USE
STYLE_SHEET_USE
- State:
- CLOSED
- Product:
- mobileOK Basic tests
- Raised by:
- Jo Rabin
- Opened on:
- 2006-08-31
- Description:
- for completeness, turning this list discussion into an ISSUE:
And I should have added: Check that the style sheet contains only CSS level 1
items. Note that this rules out @media for the DDC.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: member-bpwg-request@w3.org [mailto:member-bpwg-request@w3.org] On
> Behalf Of Jo Rabin
> Sent: 30 August 2006 18:07
> To: \'Sean Owen\'; \'Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group WG\'
> Subject: RE: 2.2.25 STYLE_SHEETS_USE
>
>
> Sorry, absence has left me way behind on this lot:
>
> The Best Practice does not say that you should not use presentation
> related
> elements. It says you should use style sheets which could be construed
> that
> way, I suppose. But what it mainly says is that you need to make a
> judgment
> call as to the best way of presenting style information, given the device
> in
> question.
>
> As pointed out earlier the elements that are tested for in 2.2.25 are
> ruled
> out by insistence on XHTML Basic. Again, this is obviously
> interpretational,
> but in my view I think that the test that is implied here is that you
> should
> not use the named presentation related elements, even if they are
> available
> in a markup language that the target device supports.
>
> To be clear about this - if you FAIL because you are not HTML Basic then
> that means you are something else, and the something else may not support
> style sheets and may only support in line style. In which case failing
> again
> because you have correctly used style elements is not right.
>
> So, I think we need to define the DDC as caching a single external style
> sheet. And I think the test should consist of looking for zero or one
> links
> to an external style sheet. That style sheet should not cause the
> retrieval
> of further style sheets.
>
> Jo
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: member-bpwg-request@w3.org [mailto:member-bpwg-request@w3.org] On
> > Behalf Of Sean Owen
> > Sent: 17 August 2006 21:56
> > To: Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group WG
> > Subject: Re: 2.2.25 STYLE_SHEETS_USE
> >
> >
> > Wrapping this one up too: the resoultion was to change this test to
> > not require use of the style element or attribute. Since the intent is
> > really to make sure one doesn\'t use other means to control
> > presentation, the test will reflect that.
> >
> > The test I will write will check for use of common non-CSS
> > presentation tags, like <font>, <center>, etc. I\'m looking at the tags
> > from, say, HTML 4 Transitional, and the Text Extension module from
> > XHTML modularization, that are not included in XHTML Basic 1.0.
> >
> > Though this test is redundant with XHTML Basic compliance, then, the
> > feeling was this was important enough to call out again in a test. One
> > mistake here would yield two errors, but one would be quite specific
> > whereas the other would simply say something about XHTML compliance.
> >
> > Sean
> >
> > On 7/27/06, Andrea Trasatti <andrea@trasatti.it> wrote:
> > >
> > > From the BP Doc, chapter 5.4.9.1:
> > > Style information may be contained in an externally linked style
> > > sheet or, in HTML, may be contained either in a style element or in a
> > > style attribute on specific elements.
> > >
> > > Mobile devices offer varying support for style sheets. Some provide
> > > full implementations, including caching of external style sheets;
> > > some do not cache external style sheets; some do not support the
> > > style element; some implementations do not support more than one
> > > style sheet and some do not support style sheets at all.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > And then, 5.4.9.2:
> > > It is preferable to share style information between pages, but if the
> > > device does not support caching of style sheets then this approach
> > > would result in the same style sheet being retrieved for each page.
> > > Consequently, in order of preference: if the device caches style
> > > sheets, put style information in a single external style sheet (see
> > > also 5.2.9 Externally Linked Resources); if the device supports the
> > > style element, use it; otherwise use an external style sheet.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > These two chapters don\'t seem to prescribe the use of the style tag.
> > > Order of preference is:
> > > 1. external file
> > > 2. internal style tag
> > > 3. attributes in the XHTML tags
> > > 4. don\'t use it if you know the device does not support it.
> > >
> > >
> > > There are *3* cases out of four in which I\'m not failing with the BP
> > > and NOT using the style tag.
> > >
> > > I think the minimum is level 2 and maybe we can give some directions.
> > > Level 1 could be for example specifying the text/css in the Accept
> > > and verifying that a link tag with a stylesheet is present. And then
> > > new request WITHOUT it and see what happens. Still cases 2 and 3 will
> > > fit in this second test.
> > > Forth case is probably not interesting for a level 1 certification.
> > >
> > > - Andrea
> > >
> > >
> > > Il giorno 26/lug/06, alle ore 18:04, Sean Owen ha scritto:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I agree. The best practice is \"use style sheets to control
> > > > presentation\" which can be trivially satisfied without style sheets
> > > > when there is no, ah, presentation to control.
> > > >
> > > > Hmm, well the test could look for deprecated formatting tags like
> > > > <font> or <center>, but these are already precluded by XHTML Basic
> > > > compliance I believe. Other suggestions? We already prohibit things
> > > > like using images for spacing. I\'m trying to imagine what this
> covers
> > > > that other best practices don\'t.
> > > >
> > > > Therefore I suggest we cook up some elaborate human test for level 2
> > > > -- and I\'m still not clear what it would be -- or remove this test
> > > > entirely.
- Related Actions Items:
- No related actions
- Related emails:
- [minutes] Summary of our Gijon F2F (from dom@w3.org on 2006-10-04)
- f2f agenda( was: Re: [agenda] Agenda for tomorrow\'s call (and draft f2f agenda) (from ph@w3.org on 2006-09-21)
- Re: f2f agenda( was: Re: [agenda] Agenda for tomorrow\'s call (and draft f2f agenda) (from timo.skytta@nokia.com on 2006-09-21)
- [minutes] Thu Sep 21 teleconf (from dom@w3.org on 2006-09-21)
- FW: ACTION-339 Summary of resolutions needed for ISSUE-128 STYLE_SHEET_SUPPORT and ISSUE-135 STYLE_SHEET_USE (from jo@linguafranca.org on 2006-09-20)
- [agenda] Agenda for tomorrow\'s call (and draft f2f agenda) (from Daniel.Appelquist@vodafone.com on 2006-09-20)
- RE: [agenda] Agenda for tomorrow\'s call (and draft f2f agenda) (from Rotan.Hanrahan@MobileAware.com on 2006-09-20)
- RE: [agenda] Agenda for tomorrow\'s call (and draft f2f agenda) (from ANEC_W3CRep_Bruno@vonniman.com on 2006-09-20)
- RE: ACTION-339 Summary of resolutions needed forISSUE-128STYLE_SHEET_SUPPORT and ISSUE-135 STYLE_SHEET_USE (from jo@linguafranca.org on 2006-09-15)
- RE: ACTION-339 Summary of resolutions needed forISSUE-128STYLE_SHEET_SUPPORT and ISSUE-135 STYLE_SHEET_USE (from luca.passani@openwave.com on 2006-09-15)
- Re: ACTION-339 Summary of resolutions needed for ISSUE-128 STYLE_SHEET_SUPPORT and ISSUE-135 STYLE_SHEET_USE (from andrea@trasatti.it on 2006-09-15)
- ACTION-339 Summary of resolutions needed for ISSUE-128 STYLE_SHEET_SUPPORT and ISSUE-135 STYLE_SHEET_USE (from jo@linguafranca.org on 2006-09-14)
- Re: Techniques: External Style Sheet (from andrea@trasatti.it on 2006-09-05)
- RE: ISSUE-135: STYLE_SHEET_USE (from jo@linguafranca.org on 2006-09-04)
- Re: ISSUE-135: STYLE_SHEET_USE (from srowen@google.com on 2006-09-01)
- ISSUE-135: STYLE_SHEET_USE (from dean+cgi@w3.org on 2006-08-31)
- Re: ISSUE-135: STYLE_SHEET_USE (from dom@w3.org on 2006-08-31)
- RE: ISSUE-135: STYLE_SHEET_USE (from jo@linguafranca.org on 2006-08-31)
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