IRC log of wai-wcag on 2005-12-22

Timestamps are in UTC.

20:32:34 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
20:32:34 [RRSAgent]
logging to
20:32:40 [ben]
zakim, list conferences
20:32:40 [Zakim]
I see no active conferences
20:32:41 [Zakim]
scheduled at this time are WAI_UAWG()2:00PM, XML_QueryWG(ttf)3:00PM
20:32:47 [ben]
zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
20:32:47 [Zakim]
ok, ben; I see WAI_WCAG()4:00PM scheduled to start in 28 minutes
20:33:23 [ben]
Meeting: WCAG Weekly Telecon
20:33:32 [ben]
20:33:48 [ben]
agenda+ Planning and Next Steps
20:34:25 [ben]
agenda+ Issues for Guideline 2.4 (
20:34:53 [ben]
agenda+ Issues for Guideline 2.1 (
20:35:20 [ben]
agenda+ Issues for Guideline 3.2 (
20:35:41 [ben]
agenda+ Misc. Questions for 22 December Telecon (
20:36:02 [ben]
agenda+ Issues for Guideline 4.1 (
20:36:13 [ben]
chair: Gregg_Vanderheiden, John_Slatin
20:39:08 [ben]
Regrets: Tim_Boland, Gian_Sampson-Wild, Takayuki_Watanabe, Roberto_Castaldo, Roberto_Ellero, Yvette_Hoitink, Roberto_Scano, Gez_Lemon, Sebastiano_Nutarelli
20:39:16 [ben]
RRSAgent, off
21:00:15 [Zakim]
21:00:29 [Sofia]
Sofia has joined #wai-wcag
21:00:51 [Zakim]
21:01:07 [Zakim]
21:01:15 [Kesh]
Kesh has joined #wai-wcag
21:01:16 [bengt]
zakim, ??P4 is Bengt_Farre
21:01:16 [Zakim]
+Bengt_Farre; got it
21:01:29 [Zakim]
21:01:38 [Kesh]
zakim, Kesh is Kerstin_Goldsmith
21:01:38 [Zakim]
sorry, Kesh, I do not recognize a party named 'Kesh'
21:02:04 [ben_]
ben_ has joined #wai-wcag
21:02:12 [Zakim]
21:02:15 [Zakim]
21:02:20 [Zakim]
21:02:27 [jslatinOFHNetIRC]
jslatinOFHNetIRC has joined #wai-wcag
21:02:39 [Zakim]
+ +1.650.493.aaaa
21:02:41 [Judy]
Judy has joined #wai-wcag
21:02:53 [Zakim]
21:03:11 [Zakim]
21:03:18 [Zakim]
21:03:20 [wendy]
zakim, +1.650.493.aaaa is Loretta
21:03:20 [Zakim]
+Loretta; got it
21:03:22 [Zakim]
21:03:47 [LucaMascaro]
Zakim, IPcaller.a is lmascaro
21:03:47 [Zakim]
+lmascaro; got it
21:04:03 [Zakim]
21:04:12 [wendy]
zakim, IPcaller may be Gregg_And_Ben
21:04:12 [Zakim]
+Gregg_And_Ben?; got it
21:04:15 [ben_]
zakim, who is on the phone?
21:04:15 [Zakim]
On the phone I see David_MacDonald, Becky_Gibson, ??P2, Alex_Li, Bengt_Farre, Matt_May, Sofia_Celic, Wendy, John_Slatin, Loretta, ??P7, Judy, Gregg_And_Ben?, lmascaro, [IPcaller.a]
21:04:25 [wendy]
zakim, IPcaller.a is Makoto
21:04:25 [Zakim]
+Makoto; got it
21:04:32 [wendy]
zakim, ??P7 may be Katie
21:04:32 [Zakim]
+Katie?; got it
21:04:36 [wendy]
zakim, who's on the phone?
21:04:36 [Zakim]
On the phone I see David_MacDonald, Becky_Gibson, ??P2, Alex_Li, Bengt_Farre, Matt_May, Sofia_Celic, Wendy, John_Slatin, Loretta, Katie?, Judy, Gregg_And_Ben?, lmascaro, Makoto
21:04:55 [wendy]
zakim, mute makoto
21:04:55 [Zakim]
Makoto should now be muted
21:05:52 [bengt]
kerstin ?
21:06:13 [wendy]
zakim, ??P2 may be kerstin_goldsmith
21:06:13 [Zakim]
+kerstin_goldsmith?; got it
21:06:32 [wendy]
kesh you can unmute in irc by typing, "zakim, unmute me"
21:06:40 [wendy]
zakim, who's muted?
21:06:40 [Zakim]
I see Makoto muted
21:07:07 [Becky]
scribe: Becky
21:07:54 [ben_]
zakim, who's muted?
21:07:55 [Zakim]
I see Makoto muted
21:08:08 [wendy]
zakim, unmute makoto
21:08:11 [Zakim]
Makoto should no longer be muted
21:08:11 [ben_]
21:08:26 [Zakim]
21:08:46 [Becky]
Zakim, take up item 1
21:08:46 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Planning and Next Steps" taken up [from ben]
21:09:32 [wendy]
zakim, mute makoto
21:09:32 [Zakim]
Makoto should now be muted
21:10:14 [ben_]
schedule for getting to last call:
21:10:34 [ben_]
Instructions and team assignments for getting to Last Call:
21:10:50 [Zakim]
21:10:56 [wendy]
zakim, ??P2 is Kerstin
21:10:56 [Zakim]
+Kerstin; got it
21:11:05 [wendy]
zakim, Kerstin is Kerstin_Goldsmith
21:11:05 [Zakim]
+Kerstin_Goldsmith; got it
21:11:11 [wendy]
zakim, who's on the phone?
21:11:11 [Zakim]
On the phone I see David_MacDonald, Becky_Gibson, Alex_Li, Bengt_Farre, Matt_May, Sofia_Celic, Wendy, John_Slatin, Loretta, Katie?, Judy, Gregg_And_Ben?, lmascaro, Makoto (muted),
21:11:14 [Zakim]
... Kerstin_Goldsmith
21:12:20 [Kesh]
zakim, who's muted?
21:12:20 [Zakim]
I see Makoto, Kerstin_Goldsmith muted
21:14:58 [Becky]
zakim, close item 1
21:14:58 [Zakim]
agendum 1, Planning and Next Steps, closed
21:14:59 [Zakim]
I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
21:15:00 [Zakim]
2. Issues for Guideline 2.4 ( [from ben]
21:19:41 [Becky]
Resolution: close items from surveys for 3.2, 4.1 and general which had complete agreement or agreement to close with minor edits. Authorize editors to make the suggested edits. Issue numbers are: 767,931, 1172, 1410, 1411, 1458, 1510, 1517, 1568, 1569, 1570, 1571, 1657, 1658, 1660, 1662, 1663, 1664, 1716, 1774, 496, 774, 1408, 1773, 888, 933, 991, 1161, 1220, 1519, 1554, 1748, 1675, 1676, 1677, 205, 213, 261, 405, 501, 753, 834, 846, 969, 1007, 1019, 1
21:19:51 [Becky]
zakim, take up item 2
21:19:51 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Issues for Guideline 2.4 (" taken up [from ben]
21:20:31 [Becky]
Topic: Issue 1646
21:21:39 [wendy]
issue numbers that were cut off from previous resolution - 1053, 1077, 1135, 1141, 1181, 1203, 1275, 1363, 1420, 1540, 1589, 378, 695
21:22:30 [Becky]
issue 1646 remains open
21:22:55 [Becky]
Topic: 1563
21:23:01 [Zakim]
21:24:08 [Becky]
issue 1563 remains open since it relates to 1646 which remains open
21:24:26 [Becky]
Topic: 1647
21:27:17 [Becky]
Resolution: close 1647 as proposed
21:32:36 [ben_]
ack Alex
21:34:39 [Becky]
Topic: 1649
21:34:55 [Becky]
Resolution: close 1649 as proposed
21:35:15 [Becky]
Topic: 1654
21:37:27 [ben_]
ack John
21:37:59 [wendy]
this is not related to anything in 2.4, it is 2.5.3 For forms that cause legal or financial transactions to occur, that modify or delete data in remote data storage systems, or that submit test responses, at least one of the following is true:
21:38:01 [wendy]
1. Actions are reversible.
21:38:02 [wendy]
2. Actions are checked for input errors before going on to the next step in the process.
21:38:04 [wendy]
3. The user is able to review and confirm or correct information before submitting it.
21:40:38 [ben_]
ack John
21:52:10 [Becky]
resolution: close 1654 as proposed and by updating the intent section to help clarify what a data storage system is.
21:52:57 [Becky]
Action: team C to update the intent section of 2.5.3 to clarify the term data storage system.
21:53:14 [Becky]
Topic: 1708
21:57:00 [Becky]
resolution: close 1708. do not change the text for SC 2.4.2. The working group believes that the new wording introduces non testable language and is not clearer.
21:57:32 [David]
21:59:30 [ben_]
ack David
22:02:57 [Becky]
Topic: 1741
22:04:34 [Becky]
Action: David to work on issue 1741. Proposal due to team B no later than 01/05/06.
22:04:44 [Becky]
Issue 1741 remains open
22:04:59 [Becky]
Topic: 1769
22:08:58 [Becky]
resolution: add definition of label: text that identifies a component within Web content
22:10:33 [Becky]
resolution: close 1769 as proposed. Changing wording of 2.4.6 to: Titles, headings, and labels are descriptive.
22:11:06 [Becky]
Topic: Issue 1770
22:19:31 [David]
22:20:13 [wendy]
previously accepted "plain language" definition: The information that the user agent receives and renders into a perceivable unit.
22:20:14 [wendy]
22:20:16 [wendy]
s/into a perceivable unit/
22:20:29 [wendy]
renders to the user
22:20:33 [ben_]
ack David
22:21:51 [ben_]
change defintion of "delivery unit" to read -
22:21:52 [ben_]
the information that the user agent receives and renders into a perceivable unit to the user.
22:22:10 [Becky]
The information that the user agent receives and renders to the user.
22:22:54 [Zakim]
22:26:31 [Judy]
...last day for now...
22:28:37 [Becky]
Action: Wendy to summarize thoughts on delivery unit and send to John by 12/23/05.
22:32:32 [Zakim]
22:33:37 [Becky]
Resolution: close 1ssue 1770 as proposed (deleting "page or other" from SC 2.4.7)
22:33:51 [Becky]
Topic: Issue 1777
22:37:13 [Becky]
resolution: Close issue 1777 with comment, "If the SC specifies a set of delivery units it does not imply a single delivery unit."
22:37:40 [Becky]
Topic: issue 1130
22:39:12 [Zakim]
22:39:26 [Becky]
22:40:50 [ben_]
ack Becky
22:41:52 [David]
22:41:55 [Zakim]
22:42:02 [ben_]
ack David
22:44:07 [David]
22:44:39 [David]
22:44:44 [Becky]
ack john
22:46:10 [Becky]
Close issue 1130 with comments: As long as authors accomplish the existing SC, user agents can provide the desired functionality. TThis is already listed as a sufficient technique under 2.4.3.
22:46:50 [Becky]
Topic: issue 1720
22:47:46 [Becky]
Reolution: close 1720 as proposed (The term "programmatically identified" is no longer used in WCAG 2.0.)
22:47:57 [Becky]
zakim, close this item
22:47:57 [Zakim]
agendum 2 closed
22:47:58 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
22:47:59 [Zakim]
3. Issues for Guideline 2.1 ( [from ben]
22:48:13 [Becky]
zakim, take up item 3
22:48:13 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Issues for Guideline 2.1 (" taken up [from ben]
22:48:58 [Becky]
Topic: Issue 1700
22:49:33 [ben_]
ack Gregg
22:50:30 [Becky]
Resolution: close 1700 as proposed (Propose closing since the issue of making focus visible is a UA issue. Lack of tab positions is already covered by this SC - author must use the proper elements and attributes to ensure keyboard access.) and add a note to include as an advisory technique.
22:51:55 [Becky]
Topic: issue 1378
22:52:48 [Becky]
Resolution; close 1378 with first proposal: change the text of the criterion to replace "is designed to be operable" with "is operable" This would change the 2.1.2 success criterion FROM, " All functionality of the content is designed to be operated through a keyboard interface." TO, "All functionality of the content is operable through a keyboard interface.".
22:53:21 [Becky]
Topic: issues 1621 and 1740
22:55:22 [Becky]
Resolution: close issues 1621 and 1740 to keep 2.1.2 at level 3 with Gregg's comment: Some functionality cannot be done through keyboard. Level 3 is where we have requirements that cannot be applied to all content.
22:55:41 [Becky]
zakim, close this item
22:55:41 [Zakim]
agendum 3 closed
22:55:42 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
22:55:43 [Zakim]
4. Issues for Guideline 3.2 ( [from ben]
22:56:16 [Becky]
zakim, take up item 4
22:56:16 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Issues for Guideline 3.2 (" taken up [from ben]
22:56:50 [Becky]
Topic: issue 1659
22:57:38 [ben_]
ack John
22:57:40 [ben_]
22:59:45 [ben_]
ack ben
23:01:08 [Sofia]
23:02:38 [Becky]
Resolution: close issue 1659 by changing the wording of 3.2.3 to: Navagational mechanisms that are repeated on multiple delivery units within a set of delivery units occur in the same relative order each time they are repeated unless a change is initiated by the user.
23:03:06 [Becky]
Topic: issue 1747
23:03:37 [Zakim]
23:03:58 [Kesh]
Kesh has left #wai-wcag
23:30:45 [Becky]
Leave issue 1747 open - can not reach consensus on this call. Comments included some people can not live with it at level 1 - too restrictive. what would it prevent? what should it allow? concern about defn of change of context - could it be misinterpreted? word "complete" is important and "changing the meaning of the d.u." clarification needed about "dynamic outline" - what does this entail/cover.
23:33:03 [Becky]
Action: Alex and Becky provide reasons why moving 3.2.2 to level 1 would cause problems for web application development. Due 01/12/06.
23:33:13 [Becky]
Action: Ben and David to document the specific need and benefits of moving 3.2.2 up to level 1. Due 01/12/06.
23:35:17 [Becky]
Issue 1792
23:35:25 [Becky]
Topic: issue 1792
23:37:36 [David]
23:38:51 [ben_]
q- Sofia
23:38:55 [Sofia]
23:39:24 [Zakim]
23:39:32 [David]
23:39:40 [Zakim]
23:42:18 [Becky]
Resolution: close 1792 with no changes to the text of 3.2.1. Working group feels that the tab panel example provided in the issue does not violate SC 3.2.1. Add the tab panel example to the how to meet document.
23:42:42 [Becky]
Action: Becky will add the tab panel example to the How to Meet document for 3.2.1 as an allowed behavior. Due 01/12/06.
23:46:55 [Becky]
Topic: issue 1661
23:46:59 [Becky]
Resolution: close issue 1661 - leave lanugage of 3.2.2 as is, Add an example in how to meet to cover issues with hiding and showing content in response to an input field change.
23:47:56 [Becky]
Action: Becky to create example in How to Meet Document for 3.2.2 that explains that hiding and showing content as the result of an input field change is NOT a complete change of context (Calendaring and scheduling example)
23:47:57 [ben_]
zakim, who is on the phone?
23:47:57 [Zakim]
On the phone I see David_MacDonald, Becky_Gibson, Bengt_Farre, Matt_May, Sofia_Celic, Wendy, Loretta, Gregg_And_Ben?, Makoto (muted), Katie_Haritos-Shea, Alex_Li
23:48:11 [Becky]
zakim, close this item
23:48:11 [Zakim]
agendum 4 closed
23:48:12 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
23:48:13 [Zakim]
5. Misc. Questions for 22 December Telecon ( [from ben]
23:52:00 [Zakim]
23:52:04 [Zakim]
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23:52:10 [Zakim]
23:52:12 [Zakim]
23:52:13 [Zakim]
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23:52:18 [Zakim]
23:52:39 [Zakim]
23:52:40 [wendy]
zakim, who's on the call?
23:52:40 [Zakim]
WAI_WCAG()4:00PM has ended
23:52:41 [Zakim]
Attendees were David_MacDonald, Becky_Gibson, Alex_Li, Bengt_Farre, Matt_May, Sofia_Celic, Wendy, John_Slatin, Judy, Loretta, lmascaro, Gregg_And_Ben?, Makoto, Katie?,
23:52:45 [Zakim]
... kerstin_goldsmith?, Kerstin_Goldsmith, Katie_Haritos-Shea
23:52:46 [Zakim]
apparently WAI_WCAG()4:00PM has ended, wendy
23:52:47 [Zakim]
On IRC I see jslatinOFHNetIRC, ben_, Becky, lolness, Makoto, David, RRSAgent, Zakim, bengt, gregg, wendy
23:52:52 [wendy]
RRSAgent, generate minutes
23:52:52 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate wendy
23:53:15 [wendy]
RRSAgent, make logs world
23:53:21 [bengt]
bengt has left #wai-wcag