15:06:01 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rif
15:06:01 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/12/20-rif-irc
15:06:04 <sandro> zakim, this will be rif
15:06:05 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled near this time, sandro
15:06:08 <sandro> zakim, this will be rifwg
15:06:08 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled near this time, sandro
15:06:13 <sandro> zakim, this will be rif_wg
15:06:13 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled near this time, sandro
15:08:18 <Harold> Harold has joined #rif
15:09:39 <Jing> Jing has joined #rif
15:18:28 <ChrisW> ChrisW has joined #rif
15:24:03 <sandro> zakim, this will be rifwf
15:24:03 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled near this time, sandro
15:30:37 <ChrisW> zakim, list
15:30:37 <Zakim> I see VB_VBWG()10:00AM, SW_DAWG()9:30AM, WS_DBWG()10:00AM active
15:30:39 <Zakim> also scheduled at this time are HTML_XHTML(editors)10:00AM, WAI_TIES()10:00AM, SYMM_WG()10:00AM, SW_BPD(rdfxhtml)10:00AM
15:30:53 <mdean> mdean has joined #rif
15:31:30 <ChrisW> zakim, this will be rifwg
15:31:39 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled near this time, ChrisW
15:35:37 <sandro> (working on it, Chris)
15:40:24 <patranja> patranja has joined #rif
15:40:29 <jimh> jimh has joined #rif
15:44:34 <Hirtle> Hirtle has joined #rif
15:46:16 <Benjamin> Benjamin has joined #rif
15:52:43 <franconi> franconi has joined #rif
15:52:46 <sandro> zakim, this will be rif
15:52:46 <Zakim> ok, sandro; I see SW_RIF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes
15:53:27 <csma> csma has joined #rif
15:54:13 <deborah_n> deborah_n has joined #rif
15:54:40 <MarkusK> MarkusK has joined #rif
15:55:35 <Zakim> SW_RIF()11:00AM has now started
15:55:40 <Zakim> + +1.506.444.aaaa
15:56:08 <edbark> edbark has joined #rif
15:56:25 <Zakim> + +1.703.983.aabb
15:56:56 <Zakim> - +1.703.983.aabb
15:57:07 <jeremy> jeremy has joined #rif
15:57:12 <aharth> aharth has joined #rif
15:57:12 <paula> hi
15:57:18 <jeremy> jeremy has joined #rif
15:57:30 <Zakim> +Sandro
15:57:32 <Zakim> + +1.703.983.aacc
15:57:35 <sandro> zakim, who is here?
15:57:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see Hirtle, Sandro, +1.703.983.aacc
15:57:36 <Zakim> On IRC I see jeremy, aharth, edbark, MarkusK, deborah_n, csma, franconi, Benjamin, Hirtle, jimh, paula, mdean, ChrisW, Harold, RRSAgent, Zakim, sandro
15:57:59 <sandro> zakim, 1.703.983.aacc is DeborahNichols
15:57:59 <Zakim> sorry, sandro, I do not recognize a party named '1.703.983.aacc'
15:58:04 <sandro> zakim, aacc is DeborahNichols
15:58:04 <Zakim> +DeborahNichols; got it
15:58:05 <pfps> pfps has joined #rif
15:58:27 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:58:43 <sandro> zakim, IPcaller is PaulVincent
15:58:43 <Zakim> +PaulVincent; got it
15:58:48 <Zakim> + +3539153aadd
15:58:55 <Zakim> +??P6
15:58:58 <JosD> JosD has joined #rif
15:59:02 <sandro> zakim, aadd is DIeterFensel
15:59:02 <Zakim> +DIeterFensel; got it
15:59:15 <sandro> zakim, ??P6 is Christian
15:59:15 <Zakim> +Christian; got it
15:59:19 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:59:24 <jeremy> Zakim, IPCaller is me
15:59:24 <Zakim> +jeremy; got it
15:59:26 <PaulV> PaulV has joined #RIF
15:59:30 <Zakim> + +1.703.983.aaee
15:59:32 <sandro> zakim, IPCaller is JeremyCarroll
15:59:32 <Zakim> sorry, sandro, I do not recognize a party named 'IPCaller'
15:59:41 <Zakim> +??P18
15:59:45 <sandro> zakim, aaee is AllenGinsberg
15:59:45 <Zakim> +AllenGinsberg; got it
15:59:54 <sandro> zakim, ??P18 is IanHorrocks
15:59:55 <Zakim> +IanHorrocks; got it
16:00:02 <Zakim> +Ernesto_Damiani
16:00:08 <Zakim> +??P13
16:00:13 <minsu> minsu has joined #rif
16:00:22 <Zakim> +Chris_Welty
16:00:28 <sandro> zakim, Ernesto_Damiani is EnricoFranconi
16:00:28 <Zakim> +EnricoFranconi; got it
16:00:33 <jimh> jimh has joined #rif
16:00:34 <Zakim> +Said_Tabet
16:00:35 <sandro> zakim, ??P13 is PFPS
16:00:35 <Zakim> +PFPS; got it
16:00:43 <ChrisW> zakim, Chris_Welty is me
16:00:43 <Zakim> +ChrisW; got it
16:00:53 <Zakim> + +49.892.aaff
16:00:57 <Zakim> +Giorgos_Stamou
16:01:07 <Zakim> + +1.301.975.aagg
16:01:12 <Zakim> +Mike_Dean
16:01:19 <Zakim> +Evan_Wallace
16:01:24 <sandro> zakim, aagg is EdBarkmeyer
16:01:24 <Zakim> +EdBarkmeyer; got it
16:01:25 <Zakim> +??P31
16:01:30 <Zakim> + +1.617.964.aahh
16:01:35 <stabet> stabet has joined #rif
16:01:38 <Zakim> + +43.512.507.aaii
16:01:40 <Zakim> +Ora_Lassila
16:01:40 <w3> w3 has joined #rif
16:01:47 <Jing> Jing has joined #rif
16:01:47 <sandro> zakim, aahh is BenjaminGrosof
16:01:47 <Zakim> +BenjaminGrosof; got it
16:01:56 <sandro> zakim, aaff is Markus
16:01:56 <Zakim> +Markus; got it
16:01:57 <Zakim> + +1.506.444.aajj
16:02:03 <Zakim> +Elisa_Kendall
16:02:05 <aharth> zakim, aaii is aharth
16:02:05 <Zakim> +aharth; got it
16:02:11 <sandro> zakim, aahh is AndreasHarth
16:02:11 <Zakim> sorry, sandro, I do not recognize a party named 'aahh'
16:02:13 <ora> ora has joined #rif
16:02:16 <Allen> Allen has joined #rif
16:02:36 <Zakim> +??P35
16:02:41 <sandro> zakim, aaii is Andreas
16:02:41 <Zakim> sorry, sandro, I do not recognize a party named 'aaii'
16:02:53 <Zakim> +Jos_De_Roo
16:03:12 <giorgos> giorgos has joined #rif
16:03:14 <sandro> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:03:14 <Zakim> On the phone I see Hirtle, Sandro, DeborahNichols, PaulVincent, DIeterFensel, Christian, jeremy (muted), AllenGinsberg, IanHorrocks, EnricoFranconi, PFPS, ChrisW, Said_Tabet,
16:03:15 <msintek> msintek has joined #rif
16:03:18 <Zakim> ... Markus, Giorgos_Stamou, EdBarkmeyer, Mike_Dean, Evan_Wallace, ??P31, BenjaminGrosof, aharth, Ora_Lassila, +1.506.444.aajj, Elisa_Kendall, ??P35, Jos_De_Roo
16:03:22 <vassilis> vassilis has joined #rif
16:03:37 <Zakim> + +43.512.507.aakk
16:03:49 <sandro> zakim, aakk is Uli
16:03:49 <Zakim> +Uli; got it
16:04:01 <Hirtle> zakim, aajj is Harold&Jing
16:04:01 <Zakim> +Harold&Jing; got it
16:04:21 <Zakim> +Massimo
16:04:25 <paula_francois> have you seen that Paula and Francois from REWERSE also joined on the phone?
16:04:34 <ekw> ekw has joined #rif
16:04:41 <Zakim> + +1.631.751.aall
16:04:49 <Zakim> +[UMD]
16:04:50 <Zakim> + +1.631.205.aamm
16:05:08 <Zakim> +[UMD.a]
16:05:12 <csma> zakim, I am Christian
16:05:12 <Zakim> ok, csma, I now associate you with Christian
16:05:26 <sandro> zakim, UMD is JimHendler
16:05:26 <Zakim> +JimHendler; got it
16:05:32 <sandro> zakim, UMD.a is Bijan
16:05:32 <Zakim> +Bijan; got it
16:05:38 <Zakim> + +1.503.525.aann
16:05:40 <Zakim> - +1.631.205.aamm
16:05:40 <minsu> minsu is MinsuJang
16:05:47 <hak> hak has joined #rif
16:05:51 <Elisa> Elisa has joined #rif
16:06:00 <MM> MM has joined #rif
16:06:21 <sandro> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:06:21 <Zakim> On the phone I see Hirtle, Sandro, DeborahNichols, PaulVincent, DIeterFensel, Christian, jeremy (muted), AllenGinsberg, IanHorrocks, EnricoFranconi, PFPS, ChrisW, Said_Tabet,
16:06:24 <Zakim> ... Markus, Giorgos_Stamou, EdBarkmeyer, Mike_Dean, Evan_Wallace, ??P31, BenjaminGrosof, aharth, Ora_Lassila, Harold&Jing, Elisa_Kendall, ??P35, Jos_De_Roo, Uli, Massimo,
16:06:27 <Zakim> ... +1.631.751.aall, JimHendler, Bijan, +1.503.525.aann
16:06:28 <Zakim> + +1.604.930.aaoo
16:06:37 <JeffP> JeffP has joined #rif
16:06:42 <sandro> zakim, aaoo is Hassan
16:06:42 <Zakim> +Hassan; got it
16:06:54 <Zakim> +??P49
16:06:55 <csma> zakim, hassan is hak
16:06:55 <Zakim> +hak; got it
16:07:03 <cgi-irc> cgi-irc has joined #rif
16:07:12 <IanH> IanH has joined #rif
16:07:14 <bijan> bijan has joined #rif
16:07:30 <Jing> Jing has joined #rif
16:07:31 <MM> if you are not here please say your name ;)
16:07:46 <Zakim> +??P41
16:08:24 <Zakim> -PFPS
16:08:31 <Zakim> +??P48
16:08:32 <jeremy-scribe> Present: Michael Feter
16:08:36 <jeremy-scribe> Jeff Pan
16:08:48 <sandro> s/Feter/Kifer/
16:09:03 <Zakim> +??P13
16:09:13 <pfps> zakim, ??p13 is pfps
16:09:13 <Zakim> +pfps; got it
16:09:22 <Elisa> zakim, mute me
16:09:22 <Zakim> Elisa_Kendall should now be muted
16:09:28 <holgerl> holgerl has joined #rif
16:09:31 <vassilis> +vassilis tzouvaras and giorgos stoilos in the same telephone line with giorgos stamou
16:09:34 <cgi-irc> GaryHallmark is here
16:09:41 <paula_francois> on the phone from Munich: Paula-Lavinia Patranjan and Francois Bry
16:09:43 <holgerl> holger lausen is here
16:10:01 <sandro> Donald Chapin
16:10:02 <kifer> kifer has joined #rif
16:10:03 <jeremy-scribe> Chaphin?
16:10:13 <paula_francois> on the phone from Munich: Paula-Lavinia Patranjan and Francois Bry
16:10:14 <stabet> Chapin
16:10:22 <aharth> zakim, mute me
16:10:22 <Zakim> aharth should now be muted
16:10:25 <jeremy-scribe> Regrets:    *
16:10:25 <jeremy-scribe>       DaveReynolds (JeremyCarroll expected)
16:10:25 <jeremy-scribe>     *
16:10:25 <jeremy-scribe>       GuizhenYang
16:10:25 <jeremy-scribe>     *
16:10:26 <jeremy-scribe>       JosDeBruijn (HolgerLausen substitutes)
16:10:28 <jeremy-scribe>     *
16:10:30 <jeremy-scribe>       MinsuJang (will be available on the irc channel)
16:10:31 <GaryHallmark> thanks, Bijan :)
16:10:53 <pfps> It is generally better if everyone mutes themselves!
16:10:57 <ChrisW> zakim, who is talking?
16:11:07 <Zakim> ChrisW, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: DeborahNichols (4%), Sandro (64%), DIeterFensel (34%), Christian (9%), AllenGinsberg (9%), Uli (4%),
16:11:11 <Zakim> ... +1.631.751.aall (75%), ??P48 (4%)
16:11:16 <bijan> It's typically no better than your local mute if you have it
16:11:30 <bijan> If there's a problem with your phone, then zakim mute is better
16:11:32 <JeffP> Zakim, mute me
16:11:33 <Zakim> sorry, JeffP, I do not see a party named 'JeffP'
16:11:33 <Zakim> + +1.631.205.aapp
16:11:35 <holger> holger has joined #rif
16:11:38 <jeremy-scribe> Sandro: it is better if non-talkers mute themselves
16:11:54 <sandro> zakim, mute me
16:11:54 <Zakim> Sandro should now be muted
16:12:05 <Zakim> - +1.631.205.aapp
16:12:10 <pfps> the problem with Zakim mutes is the pinging - so local mute is better if it works.
16:12:24 <stabet> zakim, mute me
16:12:25 <Zakim> sorry, stabet, I do not see a party named 'stabet'
16:12:27 <sandro> pfps, zakim mutes via IRC work well
16:12:32 <jeremy-scribe> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2005Dec/0140
16:12:35 <jeremy-scribe> is agenda
16:12:49 <Zakim> + +1.631.205.aaqq
16:12:55 <sandro> sandro has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/2005-12-20_Meeting
16:13:06 <jeremy-scribe> Next meeting Jan 3rd
16:13:24 <jeremy-scribe> Proposed by chair, no objections
16:13:40 <jeremy-scribe> Micheal Sintek
16:13:42 <jeremy-scribe> joined
16:14:17 <MM> 631 is the NY area...
16:14:33 <ChrisW> zakim, who is talking?
16:14:40 <sandro> zakim, unmute me
16:14:41 <Zakim> Sandro should no longer be muted
16:14:41 <ekw> Bijan
16:14:43 <jeremy-scribe> PROPOSED regular telecon time Tuesday 11AM East US
16:14:43 <Zakim> ChrisW, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: DIeterFensel (15%), Christian (25%), ??P31 (4%), +1.631.751.aall (39%), JimHendler (30%)
16:15:02 <jeremy-scribe> Bijan: same time as DAWG
16:15:29 <jeremy-scribe> JosDeRoo: I just came from DAWG, no clash
16:15:37 <jeremy-scribe> Bijan: OK - I'm sorry
16:15:41 <sandro> q+
16:15:51 <sandro> ack sandro
16:16:14 <jeremy-scribe> Sandro: resolution is fixed on east coast time, with summertime things may change
16:16:27 <Jing> Jing has joined #rif
16:16:49 <jeremy-scribe> With change to summertime there will be a few oddities
16:16:58 <axelpolleres> axelpolleres has joined #rif
16:16:59 <jeremy-scribe> All W3C WG use east coast time
16:17:21 <Zakim> + +44.207.723.aarr
16:17:32 <jeremy-scribe> Proposed by chair, no objections, carried
16:18:21 <jeremy-scribe> q+ to ask about regrets
16:18:53 <jeremy-scribe> Question about WG page and Wiki
16:19:03 <jeremy-scribe> Both publicly readable, Wiki writeable
16:19:12 <sandro> zakim, aarr is JohnHall
16:19:12 <Zakim> +JohnHall; got it
16:19:25 <ChrisW> zakim, who is talking?
16:19:36 <Zakim> ChrisW, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: DIeterFensel (10%), Christian (4%), jeremy (95%), JohnHall (18%), +1.631.205.aaqq (9%), Jos_De_Roo (4%)
16:19:53 <Stan> Stan has joined #rif
16:20:01 <jeremy-scribe> Jeremy: I was planning to take regrets from Wiki at beginning of meeting, and include those in minutes
16:20:13 <jeremy-scribe> Jeremy: is that correct?
16:20:18 <Zakim> -DIeterFensel
16:20:19 <Zakim> -JohnHall
16:20:27 <jeremy-scribe> Chair/Sandro: that sounds reasonable
16:20:34 <hak> Zakim, mute me
16:20:34 <Zakim> hak should now be muted
16:20:53 <Zakim> +DIeterFensel
16:20:56 <JosD> zakim, Jos_De_Roo is me
16:20:56 <Zakim> +JosD; got it
16:21:01 <JosD> mute me
16:21:04 <sandro> msintek, Zakim knows you by the name I told it, MichaelSintek.
16:21:07 <jeremy-scribe> Regrets policy is expressed at:
16:21:12 <JosD> zakim, mute me
16:21:12 <Zakim> JosD should now be muted
16:21:14 <Jing> Jing has joined #rif
16:21:21 <Zakim> +JohnHall
16:21:49 <msintek> zakim, msintek  is MichaelSintek
16:21:49 <Zakim> sorry, msintek, I do not recognize a party named 'msintek'
16:21:59 <MM> correct, unless someone has to explicitly report in the meeting agenda
16:21:59 <jeremy-scribe> Sandro: there should only be regrets if noone from an organization is showing up?
16:22:02 <jeremy-scribe> Chair: yes
16:22:22 <sandro> other way around
16:22:30 <ChrisW> regrets policy is here: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2005Dec/0144.html
16:22:30 <jeremy-scribe> Chair: also it doesn't make that much difference if there are too many regrets on Wiki
16:23:20 <jeremy-scribe> Chair: if there is an agenda item for which you would like to contribute but will be late or absent, e-mail chairs
16:23:59 <jeremy-scribe> Chair: everyone who is not familiar with Zakim and IRC should read the document on the website
16:24:00 <StanD> StanD has joined #rif
16:24:08 <jeremy-scribe> http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot.html
16:24:46 <hak> Zakim, unmute me
16:24:46 <Zakim> hak should no longer be muted
16:25:00 <jeremy-scribe> Chair: you should also read the document on the scribe script ...
16:25:02 <johnhall> johnhall has joined #rif
16:25:08 <jeremy-scribe> (which one???)
16:25:42 <GW> GW has joined #rif
16:25:51 <jeremy-scribe> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/ScribesList
16:25:58 <jeremy-scribe> person at top of list will need to scribe
16:26:06 <jeremy-scribe> Once you have scribed you go to bottom of list
16:26:37 <jeremy-scribe> Chair recommends reading ....
16:26:37 <ChrisW> IRC minutes script: http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
16:26:56 <pfps> I don't see the link to the scribe list on the group main page.
16:27:19 <jeremy-scribe> Jeremy notes he is not familiar with that script ....
16:28:09 <pfps> Scribing is a duty - think of it as a price of being an alternate :-)
16:28:23 <jeremy-scribe> Bijan asks about occassionally attendingalternates and scribing.
16:28:24 <stabet> zakim, Said_Tabet is me
16:28:25 <Zakim> +stabet; got it
16:28:28 <GW> GW has joined #rif
16:29:03 <jeremy-scribe> Chair: if you are here and you are the top of the list then you scribe
16:29:15 <sandro> I wonder if we should give people a pass on their first time they attend.    Hrm.....
16:29:20 <jeremy-scribe> Chair: no obligation to turn up if at top of list
16:29:33 <Zakim> + +49.355.69.aass
16:30:01 <jeremy-scribe> 2. Recap of f2f (15 min)
16:30:15 <sandro> zakim, aass is GerdWagner
16:30:15 <Zakim> +GerdWagner; got it
16:30:17 <Zakim> + +1.519.579.aatt
16:30:29 <Uli> Uli has joined #rif
16:31:28 <jeremy-scribe> Chair: asks to formally agree to move deadline from Dec 20 to 21
16:31:30 <jeremy-scribe> so resolved
16:31:47 <Allen> Allen has joined #rif
16:32:07 <jeremy-scribe> q+ to object
16:32:53 <jeremy-scribe> Jeremy: query "publish"?
16:33:14 <jeremy-scribe> Chair: no, intent is to put a first editors draft for WG comments 
16:33:30 <jeremy-scribe> Sandro: perhaps best not on the Wiki
16:33:36 <ChrisW> zakim, who is talking?
16:33:38 <jeremy-scribe> Sandro: html
16:33:47 <Zakim> ChrisW, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Sandro (39%), DIeterFensel (5%), Christian (90%), jeremy (15%), +1.519.579.aatt (4%), +1.631.205.aaqq (24%)
16:34:47 <jeremy-scribe> (scribe note to self: was there an action on sandro to do with website)
16:35:12 <sandro> zakim, aatt is StanDevitt
16:35:12 <Zakim> +StanDevitt; got it
16:35:56 <sandro> q+ to talk about Zakim reservation size
16:36:04 <jeremy-scribe> q-
16:36:37 <ChrisW> ACTION: sandro update main web page re: meetings
16:36:56 <jeremy-scribe> (thanks chris)
16:37:24 <jeremy-scribe> next f2f at all group meeting
16:37:42 <jeremy-scribe> which days (mon/tues) or thurs/fri will be decided
16:37:46 <jeremy-scribe> by end of year
16:37:59 <jeremy-scribe> but WG has to accept decision of all group meeting organizers
16:38:21 <stabet> q+
16:38:24 <jeremy-scribe> For next f2f around june, location to be decided
16:38:39 <jeremy-scribe> if you are willing to host please send to chairs list
16:38:58 <jeremy-scribe> someone: possibly with WWW conference?
16:39:10 <stabet> q-
16:39:29 <jeremy-scribe> Zakim, unmute me
16:39:29 <Zakim> jeremy should no longer be muted
16:39:39 <stabet> zakim, mute me
16:39:39 <Zakim> stabet should now be muted
16:39:54 <jeremy-scribe> 23-26May WWW conference
16:40:05 <jeremy-scribe> Zakim, mute me
16:40:05 <Zakim> jeremy should now be muted
16:41:02 <jeremy-scribe> discussion of deadline for offering to host june f2f
16:41:38 <jeremy-scribe> pfps better to decide earlier to allow travel bookings if collocated with WWW
16:41:56 <jeremy-scribe> chair: propose deadline for offer to host f2f by jan 31
16:41:57 <sandro> Also see http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/F2F3 (and make links to interesting conflicts and co-locaiton opportunities)
16:42:01 <jeremy-scribe> no objections, resolved
16:42:25 <stabet> Suggestion: possibly collocate with OMG Meeting in Boston: June 26-30, 2006
16:42:34 <jeremy-scribe> sandro: conference call reservation has fixed size
16:42:39 <ChrisW> zakim, who is talking?
16:42:50 <Zakim> ChrisW, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Sandro (90%), IanHorrocks (5%), EnricoFranconi (4%), ??P31 (9%), Uli (4%)
16:42:54 <jeremy-scribe> if you call up and the conference is full, do *0 and speak to operator
16:43:18 <jeremy-scribe> conference is now full, so if you are trying to join speak to operator
16:43:30 <jeremy-scribe> (booking for 40 people)
16:43:50 <jeremy-scribe> ACTION sandro add *0 to speak to operator to web page on meeting logistics
16:44:04 <jeremy-scribe> 3. Use Case & Requirements (20 min)
16:44:15 <jeremy-scribe> David and Allan editing
16:44:53 <jeremy-scribe> reviewing the page
16:45:05 <jeremy-scribe> there are 22 use cases, but a lot have been added recently
16:45:15 <jeremy-scribe> editors have not had a real good look at them
16:45:27 <jeremy-scribe> but they are presumably based on earlier e-mail
16:45:49 <jeremy-scribe> editors will create first editors draft from these use cases
16:46:09 <jeremy-scribe> q+ to ask if editors expected to use all of these?
16:46:12 <kifer> zakim, ??P48 may be kifer
16:46:12 <Zakim> +kifer?; got it
16:46:27 <sandro> q-
16:46:28 <jeremy-scribe>  http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/UseCaseTemplate
16:46:52 <jeremy-scribe> everyone interested should read use cases, and add comments
16:46:58 <jeremy-scribe> including links from one to another
16:47:02 <stabet> q+
16:47:03 <MM> Jim, I was just checking out the created use cases, they follow the template ;)
16:47:06 <jeremy-scribe> proposals to group use cases
16:47:07 <hak> q+ classifying cases?
16:47:24 <jeremy-scribe> ack me
16:47:25 <Zakim> jeremy, you wanted to ask if editors expected to use all of these?
16:47:39 <PaulV> q+
16:47:42 <hak> q- classifying cases?
16:47:43 <jimh> q+ about use case template
16:47:55 <sandro> q?
16:48:01 <csma> q?
16:48:07 <jeremy-scribe> Jeremy: how much editorial descretion is there to discard use cases
16:48:18 <hak> q+ about classifying cases
16:48:21 <jeremy-scribe> editors: we do not expect to have to use all of them
16:48:28 <jimh> q+ to ask about template - missing "real world" tab
16:48:41 <hak> q+
16:48:43 <jeremy-scribe> we may ask for feedback on which ones we use and do not use
16:48:45 <csma> q?
16:49:10 <csma> zakim, ack hak
16:49:10 <Zakim> I see stabet, PaulV, jimh on the speaker queue
16:49:11 <jeremy-scribe> hassan: if we put links between use cases, then we are classifying
16:49:48 <hak> q+
16:49:53 <jeremy-scribe> Zakim, mute me
16:49:53 <Zakim> jeremy should now be muted
16:50:29 <ChrisW> zakim, who is talking?
16:50:39 <stabet> zakim, unmute me
16:50:39 <Zakim> stabet should no longer be muted
16:50:40 <jeremy-scribe> last speaker ignored
16:50:41 <Zakim> ChrisW, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Christian (33%), GerdWagner (15%), +1.631.205.aaqq (24%)
16:50:41 <pfps> Dieter?
16:51:08 <jeremy-scribe> said: following up hassan
16:51:08 <ChrisW> zakim, mute GerdWagner
16:51:08 <Zakim> GerdWagner should now be muted
16:51:17 <jeremy-scribe> not only about classification,
16:51:27 <jeremy-scribe> some are related because of what they are dealing with
16:51:35 <stabet> zakim, mute me
16:51:35 <Zakim> stabet should now be muted
16:51:56 <jeremy-scribe> Zakim, who's on the call?
16:51:56 <Zakim> On the phone I see Hirtle, Sandro, DeborahNichols (muted), PaulVincent, Christian, jeremy (muted), AllenGinsberg, IanHorrocks, EnricoFranconi, ChrisW, stabet (muted), MarkusK
16:51:59 <Zakim> ... (muted), Giorgos_Stamou, EdBarkmeyer (muted), Mike_Dean, Evan_Wallace, ??P31, BenjaminGrosof, aharth (muted), Ora_Lassila, Harold&Jing, Elisa_Kendall (muted), ??P35, JosD
16:52:03 <Zakim> ... (muted), Uli, Massimo (muted), msintek? (muted), JimHendler, Bijan, +1.503.525.aann, hak, ??P49, ??P41, kifer? (muted), pfps, +1.631.205.aaqq, DIeterFensel, JohnHall,
16:52:06 <Zakim> ... GerdWagner (muted), StanDevitt
16:52:14 <sandro> q?
16:52:17 <jeremy-scribe> Benjamin: job of editors will be easier if we had activity on classification
16:52:19 <sandro> ack stabet 
16:52:43 <stabet> q-
16:52:49 <jeremy-scribe> Chair: we want to have highly relevant use cases
16:52:52 <stabet> zakim, mute me
16:52:52 <Zakim> stabet should now be muted
16:53:07 <jeremy-scribe> Chair: also about RIF, perhaps business area is not so relevant
16:53:15 <sandro> ack PaulV 
16:53:18 <johnhall> zakim, mute me
16:53:18 <Zakim> JohnHall should now be muted
16:53:39 <jeremy-scribe> Benjamin: there are multiple dimensions - requirements on RIF, business area
16:54:18 <jeremy-scribe> ?: use case should specify rule language uses and interchange requirement
16:54:31 <sandro> s/?/PaulV/
16:54:34 <edbark> How do I put myself on the speaker queue?
16:54:36 <csma> zakim, ack jimh
16:54:36 <Zakim> jimh, you wanted to ask about template - missing "real world" tab
16:54:37 <Zakim> I see hak on the speaker queue
16:54:50 <sandro> edbark, type "q+ to say (whatever)"
16:54:52 <jeremy-scribe> JimHendler: in WebOnt and Choreography requirements
16:54:52 <ChrisW> q+
16:55:07 <jeremy-scribe> having something about where and when this thing was implemented and done
16:55:12 <jeremy-scribe> and what is the business case for it
16:55:32 <jeremy-scribe> Many of the use cases seemed 'proposed use cases' rather than 'we have a specific need'
16:55:41 <edbark> q+ special reqmts from use case
16:55:43 <jeremy-scribe> e.g. 'my business is dependent on this'
16:55:49 <jeremy-scribe> 'we use this all the time'
16:55:56 <stabet> q+
16:56:12 <jeremy-scribe> Chair: suggests template should be modified to include this
16:56:17 <stabet> q-
16:56:29 <jeremy-scribe> Zakim, unmute me
16:56:29 <Zakim> jeremy should no longer be muted
16:56:38 <stabet> zakim, unmute me
16:56:38 <Zakim> stabet should no longer be muted
16:56:47 <jeremy-scribe> jim implementation status
16:57:24 <stabet> zakim, mute me
16:57:24 <Zakim> stabet should now be muted
16:57:26 <vassilis> vassilis has joined #rif
16:57:30 <sandro> q?
16:57:30 <jeremy-scribe> jeremy: will people need to revise already submitted use cases?
16:57:36 <edbark> to Zakim, q+
16:57:37 <Allen> +q
16:57:45 <csma> q?
16:57:49 <Allen> q
16:57:51 <jeremy-scribe> chair: we could ask everyone to add this as a comment
16:58:23 <GaryHallmark> +q
16:58:33 <jeremy-scribe> proposal: on exisiting use cases a comment should be added to show implementation status, and business need
16:58:35 <GaryHallmark> q+
16:58:56 <jeremy-scribe> it could be in status field
16:59:06 <stabet> q+
16:59:18 <jeremy-scribe> proposal s/comment/status/
16:59:47 <csma> q?
17:00:02 <jeremy-scribe> s/business need/real world status/
17:00:13 <stabet> stabet has joined #rif
17:00:14 <sandro> ack hak
17:00:30 <jeremy-scribe> hassan: classification is needed
17:00:49 <jeremy-scribe> hassan: everyone has some criteria that they have implicitly used
17:00:50 <GaryHallmark> just wondering how real an implementation of RIF can be when it isn't defined yet
17:01:00 <GaryHallmark> q-
17:01:06 <Allen> queue+
17:01:29 <stabet> q-
17:01:45 <jeremy-scribe> hassan: everyone should relate their own use case to other cases
17:01:57 <jeremy-scribe> hassan: and give explanation of why the cases are linked
17:02:07 <jeremy-scribe> hassan: this will build up an ontology of use cases
17:02:17 <jeremy-scribe> hassan: I am not seeing anything emerge from use cases
17:02:25 <jeremy-scribe> hassan: looks almost arbitrary
17:02:35 <jeremy-scribe> hassan: we should be abstracting from them
17:02:49 <jeremy-scribe> ?: +1
17:02:59 <Hirtle> s/?/Harold
17:03:01 <csma> q?
17:03:05 <edbark> q-
17:03:47 <jeremy-scribe> chair: proposal is that use case submitters should link their use case to others with explanations of criteria
17:04:08 <jeremy-scribe> Allen: I agree with hassan
17:04:08 <csma> zakim, ack zakim
17:04:13 <Zakim> I see ChrisW, Allen on the speaker queue
17:04:25 <csma> zakim, ack allen
17:04:25 <Zakim> I see ChrisW on the speaker queue
17:04:36 <jeremy-scribe> Allen: about need for classifying, but I am not sure if linking to others is best way
17:04:51 <jeremy-scribe> Allen: perhaps identify requirements coming out of use case
17:05:25 <jeremy-scribe> Allen: linking might help but isn't only/best way
17:05:47 <Jeff> Jeff has joined #rif
17:06:22 <jeremy-scribe> chair: to allen and david, when do you want this information?
17:06:27 <jeremy-scribe> editors: asap
17:06:31 <jeremy-scribe> holidays coming
17:06:43 <jeremy-scribe> chair suggest Dec 31 deadline
17:07:22 <hak> on-going interactions is good and a must!
17:07:28 <jeremy-scribe> chair: the more interactiive the better
17:07:34 <jeremy-scribe> in producing the document
17:07:56 <jeremy-scribe> editor: stuff that is in by the end of the year will be taken into account
17:08:11 <jeremy-scribe> but later stuff may be accepted
17:08:18 <csma> q?
17:08:24 <jeremy-scribe> deadline of 31st proposed and accepted
17:08:42 <csma> zakim, ack chrisw
17:08:42 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
17:08:47 <stabet> q+
17:08:50 <jeremy-scribe> ACTION everyone provide links to other uses cases or further classifying information
17:09:06 <jeremy-scribe> (scribe missed chris comment)
17:09:35 <jeremy-scribe> chris: ?? rule language used should be mentioned in scenario section of template
17:09:50 <kifer> will there be an addition to the template for that classification info?
17:10:02 <Hirtle> I believe Chris asked about what existing rule languages can handle the need
17:10:06 <jeremy-scribe> chair: different parts of scenario could use different rule languages
17:10:18 <GaryHallmark> q+
17:10:20 <csma> q?
17:10:40 <jeremy-scribe> chair: are we tralking interchange language or rule language
17:10:50 <jeremy-scribe> chris: which rule language/systems support this
17:11:33 <jeremy-scribe> some or all of actors use rule systems, and these rule systems should be identified
17:11:44 <jeremy-scribe> chris: it could go in the benefit of interchange section
17:12:07 <jeremy-scribe> chair: it could go with actors
17:12:22 <MM> it can be quite hard to push to the use case's authors to already do the precise analysis wrt existing rule systems...
17:12:22 <stabet> q- csma answered my question
17:12:22 <stabet> q-
17:12:44 <ChrisW> q-
17:12:56 <csma> q?
17:13:16 <jeremy-scribe> proposal include about each of the actors which rule languages/systems they use
17:13:23 <MM> yes, informal hints are much better and makes more sense
17:13:27 <jeremy-scribe> or type of rule language (e.g. production rules)
17:14:25 <csma> q?
17:14:29 <hak> q+
17:14:49 <jeremy-scribe> ?: unclear if classification of use cases and classification of rule systems is the same thing
17:14:55 <jeremy-scribe> s/?/Gary/
17:15:09 <sandro> ack GaryHallmark 
17:15:11 <sandro> ack hak
17:15:11 <jeremy-scribe> Zakim, mute me
17:15:12 <Zakim> jeremy should now be muted
17:15:18 <csma> zakim, ack garyhallmark
17:15:18 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
17:15:32 <Zakim> -EnricoFranconi
17:15:32 <jeremy-scribe> hassan: of course these classifications are orthogonal
17:15:32 <franconi> bye guys
17:15:51 <ChrisW> ciao enrico
17:15:57 <csma> bye enrico
17:16:03 <stabet> bye enrico
17:16:13 <stabet> q+
17:16:16 <jeremy-scribe> use cases will identifty features of systems, but also more about this use case
17:16:29 <dieterf> dieterf has joined #rif
17:16:44 <jeremy-scribe> Zakim, unmute me
17:16:44 <Zakim> jeremy should no longer be muted
17:16:51 <stabet> q-
17:17:03 <csma> q?
17:18:29 <MM> q+
17:18:38 <jeremy-scribe> editors should update template
17:18:43 <csma> q?
17:19:16 <hak> good idea!
17:19:25 <jeremy-scribe> proposal is that use case submitters should 
17:19:25 <jeremy-scribe>  - link their use case to others with explanations of criteria
17:19:25 <jeremy-scribe>  - show implementation status, 
17:19:25 <jeremy-scribe>  - business need
17:19:25 <jeremy-scribe>  - real world status
17:19:26 <jeremy-scribe>  - rule languages/systems used by actors
17:19:28 <jeremy-scribe>  - rule languages/system that already support this use case
17:19:30 <jeremy-scribe> ???
17:20:12 <jeremy-scribe> suggestion that editors shoudl clearly identify what was modified
17:20:22 <holger> DIeterFensel is dieterf
17:20:24 <MM> Zakim, unmute MM
17:20:24 <Zakim> sorry, MM, I do not see a party named 'MM'
17:20:29 <MM> Zakim, unmute me
17:20:29 <Zakim> sorry, MM, I do not see a party named 'MM'
17:20:56 <sandro> Hirtle and Allen on irc
17:20:56 <csma> q?
17:20:59 <jeremy-scribe> action AllenAndDave update template clearly identifying what has change
17:21:48 <jeremy-scribe> suggestion that change should be discussed on e-mail fbefore the submitters have to update
17:22:12 <jeremy-scribe> chair: isn't discussion here sufficient
17:22:26 <csma> q?
17:22:35 <edbark> MM's idea would be great if we had time!
17:22:38 <csma> zakim, ack mm
17:22:38 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
17:23:05 <jeremy-scribe> ?: it is more efficient to have a written thing to discuss
17:23:18 <jeremy-scribe> chair: it would be better if we had the time
17:23:25 <Harold> The authors only will know what links, implementations, etc. they want to add.
17:23:40 <jeremy-scribe> ?: ask for two days discussion on e-mail
17:23:45 <jeremy-scribe> chair: there isn't time
17:24:01 <jeremy-scribe> ?: it was just a suggestion, agree with chair
17:24:04 <Harold> The editors could quickly change the template as decided today (clearly marking what they changed).
17:24:36 <csma> q?
17:24:54 <jeremy-scribe> chair:  - rule languages/systems used by actors is same as  - rule languages/system that already support this use case
17:25:16 <dieterf> are we going to extend the length of the telco or skipping topics?
17:25:25 <MM> Zakim, please mute Massimo
17:25:25 <Zakim> Massimo should now be muted
17:25:43 <hak> q+
17:25:52 <jeremy-scribe> ACTION allen&dave Update template in light of this discussion clearly identifying what has change
17:26:17 <jeremy-scribe> ACTION everyone update their use cases in light of changed items in template
17:26:27 <jeremy-scribe> discussion of extending telecon
17:26:33 <stabet> stabet has joined #rif
17:26:35 <csma> q?
17:26:38 <jeremy-scribe> chair: suggest 30 mins extension
17:26:39 <stabet> agrees with Sandro
17:26:46 <jeremy-scribe> sandro: i would rather not go that way
17:26:53 <hak> q-
17:26:55 <jeremy-scribe> ?: +1
17:27:01 <ChrisW> suggest 15 mins
17:27:03 <ekw> agree with Sandro
17:27:17 <jeremy-scribe> chair: we will proceed quickly through other items
17:27:39 <jeremy-scribe> sandro: have we agreed an extension?
17:28:08 <jeremy-scribe> chair: propose 15 min extension
17:28:11 <jeremy-scribe> no objections
17:28:18 <kifer> bye, have to go
17:28:21 <jeremy-scribe> clearly identifying what has change
17:28:24 <Zakim> -msintek?
17:28:28 <csma> bye michael
17:28:28 <jeremy-scribe> 4. OWL & RDF Compatibility (15 min)
17:28:42 <jeremy-scribe> sandro: some edits on the Wiki
17:28:52 <jeremy-scribe> I am quite impressed with the edits
17:28:56 <csma> q?
17:29:04 <jeremy-scribe> sandro: does anyone want to say anyhting
17:29:14 <jeremy-scribe> pfps: it is hard to put together something without structure
17:29:23 <jeremy-scribe> pfps: who is going to generate structure?
17:29:41 <jeremy-scribe> sandro: I thought we would agree with an enumeration approach (agreed at f2f breakout)
17:29:47 <csma> q?
17:29:52 <jeremy-scribe> sandro: it looks like you (pfps) were goind ahead with that
17:30:01 <jeremy-scribe> pfps: not convinced
17:30:24 <jeremy-scribe> chair: let's keep enumerating and have a conf call to discuss structure
17:30:35 <ChrisW> q+ to ask for compatibility use cases
17:30:36 <jeremy-scribe> chair: let's decide on Jan 3rd when to discuss it
17:30:54 <jeremy-scribe> sandro: I thought we were going to have discussion in main telecons, not break outs
17:31:16 <jeremy-scribe> chair: I thought we would discuss on Jan 3rd, but technical discussion may get too deep
17:31:23 <kifer> kifer has joined #rif
17:31:33 <jeremy-scribe> sandro: I don't know what are the priorities for Jan 3rd meeting
17:31:38 <ekw> Didn't Peter already say he wouldn't make 3 Jan telecon?
17:31:45 <Zakim> -Bijan
17:32:06 <pfps> yes, it is very unlikely that I will be available 3 Jan
17:32:11 <jeremy-scribe> scribe: -Bijan was -JimH
17:32:29 <jeremy-scribe> discussion of date for RDF/OWL compat doc
17:32:34 <jeremy-scribe> no date decided
17:32:38 <edbark> several SW folks will be missing on 3 Jan
17:32:41 <dieterf> q+
17:32:42 <sandro> peter, please make sure your regets are in the wiki page for that meeting.
17:33:07 <jeremy-scribe> chair: given peter will not be on 3rd Jan, maybe not appropriate to discuss at that meeting
17:33:14 <sandro>  ["OWL Compatibility"]
17:33:24 <Zakim> -JosD
17:33:46 <pfps> hmm, are the regrets requirements retroactive?
17:33:46 <jeremy-scribe> sandro: if use case links are relevant to this compatibility, link use case to OWL Compatibility
17:34:13 <jeremy-scribe> me to pfps: yes - not worth complaining
17:34:34 <jeremy-scribe> chair: this in addition to list of earlier
17:34:50 <pfps> some automated mechanisms for generating meeting pages would be very useful
17:34:57 <jeremy-scribe> also links to classification too
17:35:09 <jeremy-scribe> ACTION jeremy modify minutes of previous section to include these links
17:35:14 <csma> q?
17:35:15 <gstoil> gstoil has joined #rif
17:35:24 <sandro> ack ChrisW 
17:35:24 <Zakim> ChrisW, you wanted to ask for compatibility use cases
17:35:52 <jeremy-scribe> ChrisW: it would be good to have more use cases on compatibility
17:36:00 <jeremy-scribe> chair: +1
17:36:27 <ChrisW> ack me
17:36:42 <csma> zakim, ack chrisw
17:36:42 <Zakim> I see dieterf on the speaker queue
17:37:00 <csma> zakim, ack dieterf
17:37:00 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
17:37:06 <jeremy-scribe> ?: if pfps wants structure, why doesn't jos and pfps propose structure
17:37:15 <Zakim> -pfps
17:37:16 <jeremy-scribe> pfps: neither of us have status with repsect to the document
17:37:37 <Zakim> +??P13
17:37:44 <pfps> zakim, ??p13 is pfps
17:37:44 <Zakim> +pfps; got it
17:37:57 <jeremy-scribe> chair: we will discuss structure next year
17:38:09 <jeremy-scribe> chair: is there one document, why two pages?
17:38:23 <jeremy-scribe> sandro: breakout had consensus on one document with two sections
17:38:35 <jeremy-scribe> chair: are there any objections to this?
17:38:38 <csma> q?
17:38:44 <jeremy-scribe> sandro: we don't need to decide now.
17:39:21 <Zakim> -??P49
17:39:28 <jeremy-scribe> chair: resolved there will be one document on RDF and OWL compat
17:39:36 <csma> q?
17:39:36 <paula> +paula
17:39:42 <jeremy-scribe> 5. Classification (15 min)
17:39:58 <csma> q?
17:40:10 <jeremy-scribe> chris if there are exisitng articles on classifying rule systems please post links to web pages
17:40:25 <csma> q?
17:40:25 <jeremy-scribe> benjamin: the link I posted this morning is pertinent to it, I will post more links
17:40:36 <pfps> q+
17:40:55 <jeremy-scribe> chris: if people can think of good use cases which demonstrate differences in different semantic approaches to rules
17:41:18 <jeremy-scribe> chris: is phase 1 classification important, there was discussion
17:41:25 <paula> zakim, ??P49 is paula
17:41:25 <Zakim> I already had ??P49 as ??P49, paula
17:41:35 <jeremy-scribe> digression into function-free or full horn as phase 1
17:41:44 <jeremy-scribe> seems to be full horn
17:41:48 <csma> q?
17:42:23 <jeremy-scribe> ?? what was the action to put soemthing on wiki, can someone scribe that please
17:42:28 <dieterfensel> dieterfensel has joined #rif
17:42:33 <Benjamin> Benjamin has joined #rif
17:42:55 <jeremy-scribe> pfps: what are teh requirements on list ??
17:42:59 <csma> action on harold to put a link to RuleML classification on wiki
17:42:59 <Benjamin> Benj wants to get on queue
17:43:15 <bijan> er
17:43:15 <stabet> Benjamin: type q+
17:43:19 <jeremy-scribe> chris: you are saying it is not clear what the current classificationd desiderata are
17:43:24 <csma> q?
17:43:30 <bijan> ack
17:43:33 <jeremy-scribe> ACTION chris clarify desiderata forlist of classifications
17:43:37 <bijan> zakim, ack
17:43:37 <Zakim> I don't understand 'ack', bijan
17:43:42 <bijan> ack pfps
17:43:42 <csma> zakim, ack pfps
17:43:43 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
17:43:48 <pfps> q-
17:43:55 <jeremy-scribe> Benjamin: I am a bit worried about classification of rules as opposed to rule systems
17:44:04 <Harold> q+
17:44:10 <jeremy-scribe> Benajmain: on wikis how radical an edit is polite?
17:44:39 <jeremy-scribe> I am hesitant to do drastic editing, but also hesitant to see things charge off in wrong direction
17:44:50 <jeremy-scribe> chrisW: have discussion on e-mail
17:44:58 <jeremy-scribe> sandro: add note to bottom of wiki page
17:45:14 <jeremy-scribe> chair: if you add something please identify yourself on wiki
17:45:23 <jeremy-scribe> chair: you added this at this time
17:45:40 <jeremy-scribe> ?: on wikipedia there is a discussion page about each page
17:45:50 <jeremy-scribe> sandro: discussion can be below a line on the page
17:45:59 <jeremy-scribe> ?: let's do that
17:46:06 <csma> q?
17:46:13 <pfps> +1
17:46:23 <jeremy-scribe> q+ to propose discussion on mailing list
17:46:44 <jeremy-scribe> if you offend someone discuss offline
17:46:55 <csma> q?
17:47:11 <ekw> +1
17:47:17 <jeremy-scribe> benjamin: would be helpful to have guidelines for wiki usage
17:47:18 <GW> GW has joined #rif
17:47:43 <jeremy-scribe> ACTION sandro add link about wiki usage
17:48:19 <bijan> I also worry about us moving to using a wiki as the primary medium for working group work as this is a fairly radical departure from normal WG practice
17:48:25 <jeremy-scribe> Harold we should look to charter for ...
17:48:34 <jeremy-scribe> e.g. datatypes should be brought in
17:48:38 <bijan> Not only is it noval for us, it's noval for W3C observers
17:48:50 <sandro> bijan, I'd love to talk with you about this -- maybe this isn't the place.  :-)
17:48:57 <ChrisW> suggest we move this to email and adjourn
17:49:01 <bijan> It's WG business
17:49:06 <bijan> I'll send an email
17:49:11 <bijan> as well
17:49:20 <ChrisW> "this" == current phone discussino
17:49:22 <edbark> q+
17:49:27 <csma> q?
17:49:54 <csma> zakim, ack harold
17:49:54 <Zakim> I see jeremy, edbark on the speaker queue
17:50:14 <csma> zakim, ack jeremy
17:50:14 <Zakim> jeremy, you wanted to propose discussion on mailing list
17:50:15 <Zakim> I see edbark on the speaker queue
17:50:27 <jeremy-scribe> edbark agreed with harold
17:50:37 <csma> zakim, ack edbark
17:50:37 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
17:50:47 <stabet> shares Ed's concern
17:50:48 <jeremy-scribe> it is improtant to address things that affect the way rule language works, as well as things in charter
17:50:58 <jeremy-scribe> ?? what was atcion on harold
17:51:32 <csma> q?
17:51:55 <stabet> zakim, unmute m
17:51:55 <Zakim> 'm' is ambiguous, stabet
17:52:00 <stabet> zakim, unmute me
17:52:00 <Zakim> stabet should no longer be muted
17:52:06 <Harold> I suggest, in particular, to do a Phase 1 fine classification
17:52:24 <MM> Happy holidays to everybody!
17:52:27 <jeremy-scribe> chair: propse close, happy xmass and new year
17:52:27 <Zakim> -hak
17:52:28 <stabet> bye everyone thanks!
17:52:29 <Zakim> -pfps
17:52:29 <Zakim> -JohnHall
17:52:30 <Zakim> -JimHendler
17:52:31 <Zakim> -Evan_Wallace
17:52:32 <stabet> -stabet
17:52:33 <Zakim> -Ora_Lassila
17:52:33 <deborah_n> quit bye
17:52:34 <Zakim> -DIeterFensel
17:52:35 <Zakim> -EdBarkmeyer
17:52:35 <PaulV> PaulV has left #RIF
17:52:36 <Zakim> -Sandro
17:52:37 <Zakim> -AllenGinsberg
17:52:38 <Zakim> -IanHorrocks
17:52:40 <Zakim> -Elisa_Kendall
17:52:42 <Zakim> -Hirtle
17:52:44 <Zakim> -PaulVincent
17:52:46 <Zakim> -BenjaminGrosof
17:52:48 <Zakim> -kifer?
17:52:49 <minsu> 벼ㅑㅅ
17:52:50 <Zakim> -StanDevitt
17:52:50 <GaryHallmark> -
17:52:51 <minsu> quit
17:52:52 <Zakim> -??P35
17:52:54 <Zakim> - +1.503.525.aann
17:52:56 <Zakim> -aharth
17:52:58 <Zakim> -GerdWagner
17:53:00 <Zakim> -Harold&Jing
17:53:02 <Zakim> -jeremy
17:53:05 <Zakim> -??P31
17:53:06 <Zakim> - +1.631.205.aaqq
17:53:08 <Zakim> -Massimo
17:53:10 <Zakim> -Mike_Dean
17:53:12 <Zakim> -DeborahNichols
17:53:14 <Zakim> -MarkusK
17:53:16 <Zakim> -stabet
17:53:18 <Zakim> -Giorgos_Stamou
17:53:20 <Zakim> -??P41
17:53:28 <jeremy-scribe> Zakim, list attendees
17:53:31 <csma> zakim, list participants
17:53:36 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +1.506.444.aaaa, +1.703.983.aabb, Hirtle, Sandro, +1.703.983.aacc, DeborahNichols, PaulVincent, +3539153aadd, DIeterFensel, Christian,
17:53:39 <Zakim> ... jeremy, +1.703.983.aaee, AllenGinsberg, IanHorrocks, EnricoFranconi, PFPS, ChrisW, +49.892.aaff, Giorgos_Stamou, +1.301.975.aagg, Mike_Dean, Evan_Wallace, EdBarkmeyer,
17:53:42 <Zakim> ... +1.617.964.aahh, +43.512.507.aaii, Ora_Lassila, BenjaminGrosof, +1.506.444.aajj, Elisa_Kendall, aharth, +43.512.507.aakk, Uli, Harold&Jing, Massimo, +1.631.751.aall,
17:53:45 <Zakim> ... +1.631.205.aamm, JimHendler, Bijan, +1.503.525.aann, +1.604.930.aaoo, hak, MarkusK, +1.631.205.aapp, +1.631.205.aaqq, +44.207.723.aarr, JohnHall, JosD, stabet, +49.355.69.aass,
17:53:48 <Zakim> ... GerdWagner, +1.519.579.aatt, StanDevitt, kifer?, msintek?
17:53:50 <Zakim> -Uli
17:53:51 <Uli> Uli has left #rif
17:53:52 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +1.506.444.aaaa, +1.703.983.aabb, Hirtle, Sandro, +1.703.983.aacc, DeborahNichols, PaulVincent, +3539153aadd, DIeterFensel, Christian,
17:53:55 <Zakim> ... jeremy, +1.703.983.aaee, AllenGinsberg, IanHorrocks, EnricoFranconi, PFPS, ChrisW, +49.892.aaff, Giorgos_Stamou, +1.301.975.aagg, Mike_Dean, Evan_Wallace, EdBarkmeyer,
17:53:58 <Zakim> ... +1.617.964.aahh, +43.512.507.aaii, Ora_Lassila, BenjaminGrosof, +1.506.444.aajj, Elisa_Kendall, aharth, +43.512.507.aakk, Uli, Harold&Jing, Massimo, +1.631.751.aall,
17:54:02 <Zakim> ... +1.631.205.aamm, JimHendler, Bijan, +1.503.525.aann, +1.604.930.aaoo, hak, MarkusK, +1.631.205.aapp, +1.631.205.aaqq, +44.207.723.aarr, JohnHall, JosD, stabet, +49.355.69.aass,
17:54:04 <msintek> msintek has left #rif
17:54:04 <Zakim> ... GerdWagner, +1.519.579.aatt, StanDevitt, kifer?, msintek?
17:54:29 <ChrisW> rrsagent, make logs world-visible
17:54:32 <jeremy-scribe> axel particpated ..
17:54:52 <jeremy-scribe> ?? where is log?
17:55:01 <ChrisW> rrsagent, where is the log?
17:55:02 <RRSAgent> I'm logging.  Sorry, nothing found for 'where is the log'
17:55:15 <sandro> RRSAgent, pointer?
17:55:15 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2005/12/20-rif-irc#T17-55-15
17:55:29 <sandro> RRSAgent, publish minutes
17:55:29 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'publish minutes', sandro.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
17:55:41 <sandro> RRSAgent, scribe
17:55:41 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'scribe', sandro.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
17:56:43 <MM> s/publish/create sandro
17:57:13 <Uli> Uli has joined #rif
17:57:22 <jeremy-scribe> I will try and have minutes ready in the next couple of hours, need a break now though
17:57:36 <ChrisW> thanks jeremy!!!!
17:57:42 <sandro> understood, Jeremy!   THANKS!
17:57:47 <csma> thanx jeremy
17:57:57 <MM> esp in the first meetings when you can't recognize all the voices jeremy... I don't envy you ;)
17:57:59 <Zakim> -ChrisW
17:58:00 <Zakim> -Christian
17:58:00 <Zakim> SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended
17:58:01 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.506.444.aaaa, +1.703.983.aabb, Hirtle, Sandro, +1.703.983.aacc, DeborahNichols, PaulVincent, +3539153aadd, DIeterFensel, Christian, jeremy, +1.703.983.aaee,
17:58:06 <Zakim> ... AllenGinsberg, IanHorrocks, EnricoFranconi, PFPS, ChrisW, +49.892.aaff, Giorgos_Stamou, +1.301.975.aagg, Mike_Dean, Evan_Wallace, EdBarkmeyer, +1.617.964.aahh,
17:58:09 <Zakim> ... +43.512.507.aaii, Ora_Lassila, BenjaminGrosof, +1.506.444.aajj, Elisa_Kendall, aharth, +43.512.507.aakk, Uli, Harold&Jing, Massimo, +1.631.751.aall, +1.631.205.aamm,
17:58:12 <Zakim> ... JimHendler, Bijan, +1.503.525.aann, +1.604.930.aaoo, hak, MarkusK, +1.631.205.aapp, +1.631.205.aaqq, +44.207.723.aarr, JohnHall, JosD, stabet, +49.355.69.aass, GerdWagner,
17:58:14 <Zakim> ... +1.519.579.aatt, StanDevitt, kifer?, msintek?
17:58:34 <sandro> I just want to see how well RRSagent does does for this:
17:58:39 <sandro> rrsagent, create minutes
17:58:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/12/20-rif-minutes.html sandro
17:59:20 <bijan> bijan has left #rif
18:06:17 <pfps> pfps has left #rif
18:23:19 <IanH> IanH has joined #rif
18:23:52 <IanH> IanH has joined #rif
18:55:31 <GW> q
18:55:45 <GW> q!
18:56:04 <GW> quit
20:03:25 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rif