IRC log of rif on 2005-12-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:06:01 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #rif
15:06:01 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/12/20-rif-irc
15:06:04 [sandro]
zakim, this will be rif
15:06:05 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled near this time, sandro
15:06:08 [sandro]
zakim, this will be rifwg
15:06:08 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled near this time, sandro
15:06:13 [sandro]
zakim, this will be rif_wg
15:06:13 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled near this time, sandro
15:08:18 [Harold]
Harold has joined #rif
15:09:39 [Jing]
Jing has joined #rif
15:18:28 [ChrisW]
ChrisW has joined #rif
15:24:03 [sandro]
zakim, this will be rifwf
15:24:03 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled near this time, sandro
15:30:37 [ChrisW]
zakim, list
15:30:37 [Zakim]
I see VB_VBWG()10:00AM, SW_DAWG()9:30AM, WS_DBWG()10:00AM active
15:30:39 [Zakim]
also scheduled at this time are HTML_XHTML(editors)10:00AM, WAI_TIES()10:00AM, SYMM_WG()10:00AM, SW_BPD(rdfxhtml)10:00AM
15:30:53 [mdean]
mdean has joined #rif
15:31:30 [ChrisW]
zakim, this will be rifwg
15:31:39 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled near this time, ChrisW
15:35:37 [sandro]
(working on it, Chris)
15:40:24 [patranja]
patranja has joined #rif
15:40:29 [jimh]
jimh has joined #rif
15:44:34 [Hirtle]
Hirtle has joined #rif
15:46:16 [Benjamin]
Benjamin has joined #rif
15:52:43 [franconi]
franconi has joined #rif
15:52:46 [sandro]
zakim, this will be rif
15:52:46 [Zakim]
ok, sandro; I see SW_RIF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes
15:53:27 [csma]
csma has joined #rif
15:54:13 [deborah_n]
deborah_n has joined #rif
15:54:40 [MarkusK]
MarkusK has joined #rif
15:55:35 [Zakim]
SW_RIF()11:00AM has now started
15:55:40 [Zakim]
+ +1.506.444.aaaa
15:56:08 [edbark]
edbark has joined #rif
15:56:25 [Zakim]
+ +1.703.983.aabb
15:56:56 [Zakim]
- +1.703.983.aabb
15:57:07 [jeremy]
jeremy has joined #rif
15:57:12 [aharth]
aharth has joined #rif
15:57:12 [paula]
hi
15:57:18 [jeremy]
jeremy has joined #rif
15:57:30 [Zakim]
+Sandro
15:57:32 [Zakim]
+ +1.703.983.aacc
15:57:35 [sandro]
zakim, who is here?
15:57:35 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Hirtle, Sandro, +1.703.983.aacc
15:57:36 [Zakim]
On IRC I see jeremy, aharth, edbark, MarkusK, deborah_n, csma, franconi, Benjamin, Hirtle, jimh, paula, mdean, ChrisW, Harold, RRSAgent, Zakim, sandro
15:57:59 [sandro]
zakim, 1.703.983.aacc is DeborahNichols
15:57:59 [Zakim]
sorry, sandro, I do not recognize a party named '1.703.983.aacc'
15:58:04 [sandro]
zakim, aacc is DeborahNichols
15:58:04 [Zakim]
+DeborahNichols; got it
15:58:05 [pfps]
pfps has joined #rif
15:58:27 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:58:43 [sandro]
zakim, IPcaller is PaulVincent
15:58:43 [Zakim]
+PaulVincent; got it
15:58:48 [Zakim]
+ +3539153aadd
15:58:55 [Zakim]
+??P6
15:58:58 [JosD]
JosD has joined #rif
15:59:02 [sandro]
zakim, aadd is DIeterFensel
15:59:02 [Zakim]
+DIeterFensel; got it
15:59:15 [sandro]
zakim, ??P6 is Christian
15:59:15 [Zakim]
+Christian; got it
15:59:19 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:59:24 [jeremy]
Zakim, IPCaller is me
15:59:24 [Zakim]
+jeremy; got it
15:59:26 [PaulV]
PaulV has joined #RIF
15:59:30 [Zakim]
+ +1.703.983.aaee
15:59:32 [sandro]
zakim, IPCaller is JeremyCarroll
15:59:32 [Zakim]
sorry, sandro, I do not recognize a party named 'IPCaller'
15:59:41 [Zakim]
+??P18
15:59:45 [sandro]
zakim, aaee is AllenGinsberg
15:59:45 [Zakim]
+AllenGinsberg; got it
15:59:54 [sandro]
zakim, ??P18 is IanHorrocks
15:59:55 [Zakim]
+IanHorrocks; got it
16:00:02 [Zakim]
+Ernesto_Damiani
16:00:08 [Zakim]
+??P13
16:00:13 [minsu]
minsu has joined #rif
16:00:22 [Zakim]
+Chris_Welty
16:00:28 [sandro]
zakim, Ernesto_Damiani is EnricoFranconi
16:00:28 [Zakim]
+EnricoFranconi; got it
16:00:33 [jimh]
jimh has joined #rif
16:00:34 [Zakim]
+Said_Tabet
16:00:35 [sandro]
zakim, ??P13 is PFPS
16:00:35 [Zakim]
+PFPS; got it
16:00:43 [ChrisW]
zakim, Chris_Welty is me
16:00:43 [Zakim]
+ChrisW; got it
16:00:53 [Zakim]
+ +49.892.aaff
16:00:57 [Zakim]
+Giorgos_Stamou
16:01:07 [Zakim]
+ +1.301.975.aagg
16:01:12 [Zakim]
+Mike_Dean
16:01:19 [Zakim]
+Evan_Wallace
16:01:24 [sandro]
zakim, aagg is EdBarkmeyer
16:01:24 [Zakim]
+EdBarkmeyer; got it
16:01:25 [Zakim]
+??P31
16:01:30 [Zakim]
+ +1.617.964.aahh
16:01:35 [stabet]
stabet has joined #rif
16:01:38 [Zakim]
+ +43.512.507.aaii
16:01:40 [Zakim]
+Ora_Lassila
16:01:40 [w3]
w3 has joined #rif
16:01:47 [Jing]
Jing has joined #rif
16:01:47 [sandro]
zakim, aahh is BenjaminGrosof
16:01:47 [Zakim]
+BenjaminGrosof; got it
16:01:56 [sandro]
zakim, aaff is Markus
16:01:56 [Zakim]
+Markus; got it
16:01:57 [Zakim]
+ +1.506.444.aajj
16:02:03 [Zakim]
+Elisa_Kendall
16:02:05 [aharth]
zakim, aaii is aharth
16:02:05 [Zakim]
+aharth; got it
16:02:11 [sandro]
zakim, aahh is AndreasHarth
16:02:11 [Zakim]
sorry, sandro, I do not recognize a party named 'aahh'
16:02:13 [ora]
ora has joined #rif
16:02:16 [Allen]
Allen has joined #rif
16:02:36 [Zakim]
+??P35
16:02:41 [sandro]
zakim, aaii is Andreas
16:02:41 [Zakim]
sorry, sandro, I do not recognize a party named 'aaii'
16:02:53 [Zakim]
+Jos_De_Roo
16:03:12 [giorgos]
giorgos has joined #rif
16:03:14 [sandro]
zakim, who is on the phone?
16:03:14 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Hirtle, Sandro, DeborahNichols, PaulVincent, DIeterFensel, Christian, jeremy (muted), AllenGinsberg, IanHorrocks, EnricoFranconi, PFPS, ChrisW, Said_Tabet,
16:03:15 [msintek]
msintek has joined #rif
16:03:18 [Zakim]
... Markus, Giorgos_Stamou, EdBarkmeyer, Mike_Dean, Evan_Wallace, ??P31, BenjaminGrosof, aharth, Ora_Lassila, +1.506.444.aajj, Elisa_Kendall, ??P35, Jos_De_Roo
16:03:22 [vassilis]
vassilis has joined #rif
16:03:37 [Zakim]
+ +43.512.507.aakk
16:03:49 [sandro]
zakim, aakk is Uli
16:03:49 [Zakim]
+Uli; got it
16:04:01 [Hirtle]
zakim, aajj is Harold&Jing
16:04:01 [Zakim]
+Harold&Jing; got it
16:04:21 [Zakim]
+Massimo
16:04:25 [paula_francois]
have you seen that Paula and Francois from REWERSE also joined on the phone?
16:04:34 [ekw]
ekw has joined #rif
16:04:41 [Zakim]
+ +1.631.751.aall
16:04:49 [Zakim]
+[UMD]
16:04:50 [Zakim]
+ +1.631.205.aamm
16:05:08 [Zakim]
+[UMD.a]
16:05:12 [csma]
zakim, I am Christian
16:05:12 [Zakim]
ok, csma, I now associate you with Christian
16:05:26 [sandro]
zakim, UMD is JimHendler
16:05:26 [Zakim]
+JimHendler; got it
16:05:32 [sandro]
zakim, UMD.a is Bijan
16:05:32 [Zakim]
+Bijan; got it
16:05:38 [Zakim]
+ +1.503.525.aann
16:05:40 [Zakim]
- +1.631.205.aamm
16:05:40 [minsu]
minsu is MinsuJang
16:05:47 [hak]
hak has joined #rif
16:05:51 [Elisa]
Elisa has joined #rif
16:06:00 [MM]
MM has joined #rif
16:06:21 [sandro]
zakim, who is on the phone?
16:06:21 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Hirtle, Sandro, DeborahNichols, PaulVincent, DIeterFensel, Christian, jeremy (muted), AllenGinsberg, IanHorrocks, EnricoFranconi, PFPS, ChrisW, Said_Tabet,
16:06:24 [Zakim]
... Markus, Giorgos_Stamou, EdBarkmeyer, Mike_Dean, Evan_Wallace, ??P31, BenjaminGrosof, aharth, Ora_Lassila, Harold&Jing, Elisa_Kendall, ??P35, Jos_De_Roo, Uli, Massimo,
16:06:27 [Zakim]
... +1.631.751.aall, JimHendler, Bijan, +1.503.525.aann
16:06:28 [Zakim]
+ +1.604.930.aaoo
16:06:37 [JeffP]
JeffP has joined #rif
16:06:42 [sandro]
zakim, aaoo is Hassan
16:06:42 [Zakim]
+Hassan; got it
16:06:54 [Zakim]
+??P49
16:06:55 [csma]
zakim, hassan is hak
16:06:55 [Zakim]
+hak; got it
16:07:03 [cgi-irc]
cgi-irc has joined #rif
16:07:12 [IanH]
IanH has joined #rif
16:07:14 [bijan]
bijan has joined #rif
16:07:30 [Jing]
Jing has joined #rif
16:07:31 [MM]
if you are not here please say your name ;)
16:07:46 [Zakim]
+??P41
16:08:24 [Zakim]
-PFPS
16:08:31 [Zakim]
+??P48
16:08:32 [jeremy-scribe]
Present: Michael Feter
16:08:36 [jeremy-scribe]
Jeff Pan
16:08:48 [sandro]
s/Feter/Kifer/
16:09:03 [Zakim]
+??P13
16:09:13 [pfps]
zakim, ??p13 is pfps
16:09:13 [Zakim]
+pfps; got it
16:09:22 [Elisa]
zakim, mute me
16:09:22 [Zakim]
Elisa_Kendall should now be muted
16:09:28 [holgerl]
holgerl has joined #rif
16:09:31 [vassilis]
+vassilis tzouvaras and giorgos stoilos in the same telephone line with giorgos stamou
16:09:34 [cgi-irc]
GaryHallmark is here
16:09:41 [paula_francois]
on the phone from Munich: Paula-Lavinia Patranjan and Francois Bry
16:09:43 [holgerl]
holger lausen is here
16:10:01 [sandro]
Donald Chapin
16:10:02 [kifer]
kifer has joined #rif
16:10:03 [jeremy-scribe]
Chaphin?
16:10:13 [paula_francois]
on the phone from Munich: Paula-Lavinia Patranjan and Francois Bry
16:10:14 [stabet]
Chapin
16:10:22 [aharth]
zakim, mute me
16:10:22 [Zakim]
aharth should now be muted
16:10:25 [jeremy-scribe]
Regrets: *
16:10:25 [jeremy-scribe]
DaveReynolds (JeremyCarroll expected)
16:10:25 [jeremy-scribe]
*
16:10:25 [jeremy-scribe]
GuizhenYang
16:10:25 [jeremy-scribe]
*
16:10:26 [jeremy-scribe]
JosDeBruijn (HolgerLausen substitutes)
16:10:28 [jeremy-scribe]
*
16:10:30 [jeremy-scribe]
MinsuJang (will be available on the irc channel)
16:10:31 [GaryHallmark]
thanks, Bijan :)
16:10:53 [pfps]
It is generally better if everyone mutes themselves!
16:10:57 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is talking?
16:11:07 [Zakim]
ChrisW, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: DeborahNichols (4%), Sandro (64%), DIeterFensel (34%), Christian (9%), AllenGinsberg (9%), Uli (4%),
16:11:11 [Zakim]
... +1.631.751.aall (75%), ??P48 (4%)
16:11:16 [bijan]
It's typically no better than your local mute if you have it
16:11:30 [bijan]
If there's a problem with your phone, then zakim mute is better
16:11:32 [JeffP]
Zakim, mute me
16:11:33 [Zakim]
sorry, JeffP, I do not see a party named 'JeffP'
16:11:33 [Zakim]
+ +1.631.205.aapp
16:11:35 [holger]
holger has joined #rif
16:11:38 [jeremy-scribe]
Sandro: it is better if non-talkers mute themselves
16:11:54 [sandro]
zakim, mute me
16:11:54 [Zakim]
Sandro should now be muted
16:12:05 [Zakim]
- +1.631.205.aapp
16:12:10 [pfps]
the problem with Zakim mutes is the pinging - so local mute is better if it works.
16:12:24 [stabet]
zakim, mute me
16:12:25 [Zakim]
sorry, stabet, I do not see a party named 'stabet'
16:12:27 [sandro]
pfps, zakim mutes via IRC work well
16:12:32 [jeremy-scribe]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2005Dec/0140
16:12:35 [jeremy-scribe]
is agenda
16:12:49 [Zakim]
+ +1.631.205.aaqq
16:12:55 [sandro]
sandro has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/2005-12-20_Meeting
16:13:06 [jeremy-scribe]
Next meeting Jan 3rd
16:13:24 [jeremy-scribe]
Proposed by chair, no objections
16:13:40 [jeremy-scribe]
Micheal Sintek
16:13:42 [jeremy-scribe]
joined
16:14:17 [MM]
631 is the NY area...
16:14:33 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is talking?
16:14:40 [sandro]
zakim, unmute me
16:14:41 [Zakim]
Sandro should no longer be muted
16:14:41 [ekw]
Bijan
16:14:43 [jeremy-scribe]
PROPOSED regular telecon time Tuesday 11AM East US
16:14:43 [Zakim]
ChrisW, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: DIeterFensel (15%), Christian (25%), ??P31 (4%), +1.631.751.aall (39%), JimHendler (30%)
16:15:02 [jeremy-scribe]
Bijan: same time as DAWG
16:15:29 [jeremy-scribe]
JosDeRoo: I just came from DAWG, no clash
16:15:37 [jeremy-scribe]
Bijan: OK - I'm sorry
16:15:41 [sandro]
q+
16:15:51 [sandro]
ack sandro
16:16:14 [jeremy-scribe]
Sandro: resolution is fixed on east coast time, with summertime things may change
16:16:27 [Jing]
Jing has joined #rif
16:16:49 [jeremy-scribe]
With change to summertime there will be a few oddities
16:16:58 [axelpolleres]
axelpolleres has joined #rif
16:16:59 [jeremy-scribe]
All W3C WG use east coast time
16:17:21 [Zakim]
+ +44.207.723.aarr
16:17:32 [jeremy-scribe]
Proposed by chair, no objections, carried
16:18:21 [jeremy-scribe]
q+ to ask about regrets
16:18:53 [jeremy-scribe]
Question about WG page and Wiki
16:19:03 [jeremy-scribe]
Both publicly readable, Wiki writeable
16:19:12 [sandro]
zakim, aarr is JohnHall
16:19:12 [Zakim]
+JohnHall; got it
16:19:25 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is talking?
16:19:36 [Zakim]
ChrisW, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: DIeterFensel (10%), Christian (4%), jeremy (95%), JohnHall (18%), +1.631.205.aaqq (9%), Jos_De_Roo (4%)
16:19:53 [Stan]
Stan has joined #rif
16:20:01 [jeremy-scribe]
Jeremy: I was planning to take regrets from Wiki at beginning of meeting, and include those in minutes
16:20:13 [jeremy-scribe]
Jeremy: is that correct?
16:20:18 [Zakim]
-DIeterFensel
16:20:19 [Zakim]
-JohnHall
16:20:27 [jeremy-scribe]
Chair/Sandro: that sounds reasonable
16:20:34 [hak]
Zakim, mute me
16:20:34 [Zakim]
hak should now be muted
16:20:53 [Zakim]
+DIeterFensel
16:20:56 [JosD]
zakim, Jos_De_Roo is me
16:20:56 [Zakim]
+JosD; got it
16:21:01 [JosD]
mute me
16:21:04 [sandro]
msintek, Zakim knows you by the name I told it, MichaelSintek.
16:21:07 [jeremy-scribe]
Regrets policy is expressed at:
16:21:12 [JosD]
zakim, mute me
16:21:12 [Zakim]
JosD should now be muted
16:21:14 [Jing]
Jing has joined #rif
16:21:21 [Zakim]
+JohnHall
16:21:49 [msintek]
zakim, msintek is MichaelSintek
16:21:49 [Zakim]
sorry, msintek, I do not recognize a party named 'msintek'
16:21:59 [MM]
correct, unless someone has to explicitly report in the meeting agenda
16:21:59 [jeremy-scribe]
Sandro: there should only be regrets if noone from an organization is showing up?
16:22:02 [jeremy-scribe]
Chair: yes
16:22:22 [sandro]
other way around
16:22:30 [ChrisW]
regrets policy is here: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2005Dec/0144.html
16:22:30 [jeremy-scribe]
Chair: also it doesn't make that much difference if there are too many regrets on Wiki
16:23:20 [jeremy-scribe]
Chair: if there is an agenda item for which you would like to contribute but will be late or absent, e-mail chairs
16:23:59 [jeremy-scribe]
Chair: everyone who is not familiar with Zakim and IRC should read the document on the website
16:24:00 [StanD]
StanD has joined #rif
16:24:08 [jeremy-scribe]
http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot.html
16:24:46 [hak]
Zakim, unmute me
16:24:46 [Zakim]
hak should no longer be muted
16:25:00 [jeremy-scribe]
Chair: you should also read the document on the scribe script ...
16:25:02 [johnhall]
johnhall has joined #rif
16:25:08 [jeremy-scribe]
(which one???)
16:25:42 [GW]
GW has joined #rif
16:25:51 [jeremy-scribe]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/ScribesList
16:25:58 [jeremy-scribe]
person at top of list will need to scribe
16:26:06 [jeremy-scribe]
Once you have scribed you go to bottom of list
16:26:37 [jeremy-scribe]
Chair recommends reading ....
16:26:37 [ChrisW]
IRC minutes script: http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
16:26:56 [pfps]
I don't see the link to the scribe list on the group main page.
16:27:19 [jeremy-scribe]
Jeremy notes he is not familiar with that script ....
16:28:09 [pfps]
Scribing is a duty - think of it as a price of being an alternate :-)
16:28:23 [jeremy-scribe]
Bijan asks about occassionally attendingalternates and scribing.
16:28:24 [stabet]
zakim, Said_Tabet is me
16:28:25 [Zakim]
+stabet; got it
16:28:28 [GW]
GW has joined #rif
16:29:03 [jeremy-scribe]
Chair: if you are here and you are the top of the list then you scribe
16:29:15 [sandro]
I wonder if we should give people a pass on their first time they attend. Hrm.....
16:29:20 [jeremy-scribe]
Chair: no obligation to turn up if at top of list
16:29:33 [Zakim]
+ +49.355.69.aass
16:30:01 [jeremy-scribe]
2. Recap of f2f (15 min)
16:30:15 [sandro]
zakim, aass is GerdWagner
16:30:15 [Zakim]
+GerdWagner; got it
16:30:17 [Zakim]
+ +1.519.579.aatt
16:30:29 [Uli]
Uli has joined #rif
16:31:28 [jeremy-scribe]
Chair: asks to formally agree to move deadline from Dec 20 to 21
16:31:30 [jeremy-scribe]
so resolved
16:31:47 [Allen]
Allen has joined #rif
16:32:07 [jeremy-scribe]
q+ to object
16:32:53 [jeremy-scribe]
Jeremy: query "publish"?
16:33:14 [jeremy-scribe]
Chair: no, intent is to put a first editors draft for WG comments
16:33:30 [jeremy-scribe]
Sandro: perhaps best not on the Wiki
16:33:36 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is talking?
16:33:38 [jeremy-scribe]
Sandro: html
16:33:47 [Zakim]
ChrisW, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Sandro (39%), DIeterFensel (5%), Christian (90%), jeremy (15%), +1.519.579.aatt (4%), +1.631.205.aaqq (24%)
16:34:47 [jeremy-scribe]
(scribe note to self: was there an action on sandro to do with website)
16:35:12 [sandro]
zakim, aatt is StanDevitt
16:35:12 [Zakim]
+StanDevitt; got it
16:35:56 [sandro]
q+ to talk about Zakim reservation size
16:36:04 [jeremy-scribe]
q-
16:36:37 [ChrisW]
ACTION: sandro update main web page re: meetings
16:36:56 [jeremy-scribe]
(thanks chris)
16:37:24 [jeremy-scribe]
next f2f at all group meeting
16:37:42 [jeremy-scribe]
which days (mon/tues) or thurs/fri will be decided
16:37:46 [jeremy-scribe]
by end of year
16:37:59 [jeremy-scribe]
but WG has to accept decision of all group meeting organizers
16:38:21 [stabet]
q+
16:38:24 [jeremy-scribe]
For next f2f around june, location to be decided
16:38:39 [jeremy-scribe]
if you are willing to host please send to chairs list
16:38:58 [jeremy-scribe]
someone: possibly with WWW conference?
16:39:10 [stabet]
q-
16:39:29 [jeremy-scribe]
Zakim, unmute me
16:39:29 [Zakim]
jeremy should no longer be muted
16:39:39 [stabet]
zakim, mute me
16:39:39 [Zakim]
stabet should now be muted
16:39:54 [jeremy-scribe]
23-26May WWW conference
16:40:05 [jeremy-scribe]
Zakim, mute me
16:40:05 [Zakim]
jeremy should now be muted
16:41:02 [jeremy-scribe]
discussion of deadline for offering to host june f2f
16:41:38 [jeremy-scribe]
pfps better to decide earlier to allow travel bookings if collocated with WWW
16:41:56 [jeremy-scribe]
chair: propose deadline for offer to host f2f by jan 31
16:41:57 [sandro]
Also see http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/F2F3 (and make links to interesting conflicts and co-locaiton opportunities)
16:42:01 [jeremy-scribe]
no objections, resolved
16:42:25 [stabet]
Suggestion: possibly collocate with OMG Meeting in Boston: June 26-30, 2006
16:42:34 [jeremy-scribe]
sandro: conference call reservation has fixed size
16:42:39 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is talking?
16:42:50 [Zakim]
ChrisW, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Sandro (90%), IanHorrocks (5%), EnricoFranconi (4%), ??P31 (9%), Uli (4%)
16:42:54 [jeremy-scribe]
if you call up and the conference is full, do *0 and speak to operator
16:43:18 [jeremy-scribe]
conference is now full, so if you are trying to join speak to operator
16:43:30 [jeremy-scribe]
(booking for 40 people)
16:43:50 [jeremy-scribe]
ACTION sandro add *0 to speak to operator to web page on meeting logistics
16:44:04 [jeremy-scribe]
3. Use Case & Requirements (20 min)
16:44:15 [jeremy-scribe]
David and Allan editing
16:44:53 [jeremy-scribe]
reviewing the page
16:45:05 [jeremy-scribe]
there are 22 use cases, but a lot have been added recently
16:45:15 [jeremy-scribe]
editors have not had a real good look at them
16:45:27 [jeremy-scribe]
but they are presumably based on earlier e-mail
16:45:49 [jeremy-scribe]
editors will create first editors draft from these use cases
16:46:09 [jeremy-scribe]
q+ to ask if editors expected to use all of these?
16:46:12 [kifer]
zakim, ??P48 may be kifer
16:46:12 [Zakim]
+kifer?; got it
16:46:27 [sandro]
q-
16:46:28 [jeremy-scribe]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/UseCaseTemplate
16:46:52 [jeremy-scribe]
everyone interested should read use cases, and add comments
16:46:58 [jeremy-scribe]
including links from one to another
16:47:02 [stabet]
q+
16:47:03 [MM]
Jim, I was just checking out the created use cases, they follow the template ;)
16:47:06 [jeremy-scribe]
proposals to group use cases
16:47:07 [hak]
q+ classifying cases?
16:47:24 [jeremy-scribe]
ack me
16:47:25 [Zakim]
jeremy, you wanted to ask if editors expected to use all of these?
16:47:39 [PaulV]
q+
16:47:42 [hak]
q- classifying cases?
16:47:43 [jimh]
q+ about use case template
16:47:55 [sandro]
q?
16:48:01 [csma]
q?
16:48:07 [jeremy-scribe]
Jeremy: how much editorial descretion is there to discard use cases
16:48:18 [hak]
q+ about classifying cases
16:48:21 [jeremy-scribe]
editors: we do not expect to have to use all of them
16:48:28 [jimh]
q+ to ask about template - missing "real world" tab
16:48:41 [hak]
q+
16:48:43 [jeremy-scribe]
we may ask for feedback on which ones we use and do not use
16:48:45 [csma]
q?
16:49:10 [csma]
zakim, ack hak
16:49:10 [Zakim]
I see stabet, PaulV, jimh on the speaker queue
16:49:11 [jeremy-scribe]
hassan: if we put links between use cases, then we are classifying
16:49:48 [hak]
q+
16:49:53 [jeremy-scribe]
Zakim, mute me
16:49:53 [Zakim]
jeremy should now be muted
16:50:29 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is talking?
16:50:39 [stabet]
zakim, unmute me
16:50:39 [Zakim]
stabet should no longer be muted
16:50:40 [jeremy-scribe]
last speaker ignored
16:50:41 [Zakim]
ChrisW, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Christian (33%), GerdWagner (15%), +1.631.205.aaqq (24%)
16:50:41 [pfps]
Dieter?
16:51:08 [jeremy-scribe]
said: following up hassan
16:51:08 [ChrisW]
zakim, mute GerdWagner
16:51:08 [Zakim]
GerdWagner should now be muted
16:51:17 [jeremy-scribe]
not only about classification,
16:51:27 [jeremy-scribe]
some are related because of what they are dealing with
16:51:35 [stabet]
zakim, mute me
16:51:35 [Zakim]
stabet should now be muted
16:51:56 [jeremy-scribe]
Zakim, who's on the call?
16:51:56 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Hirtle, Sandro, DeborahNichols (muted), PaulVincent, Christian, jeremy (muted), AllenGinsberg, IanHorrocks, EnricoFranconi, ChrisW, stabet (muted), MarkusK
16:51:59 [Zakim]
... (muted), Giorgos_Stamou, EdBarkmeyer (muted), Mike_Dean, Evan_Wallace, ??P31, BenjaminGrosof, aharth (muted), Ora_Lassila, Harold&Jing, Elisa_Kendall (muted), ??P35, JosD
16:52:03 [Zakim]
... (muted), Uli, Massimo (muted), msintek? (muted), JimHendler, Bijan, +1.503.525.aann, hak, ??P49, ??P41, kifer? (muted), pfps, +1.631.205.aaqq, DIeterFensel, JohnHall,
16:52:06 [Zakim]
... GerdWagner (muted), StanDevitt
16:52:14 [sandro]
q?
16:52:17 [jeremy-scribe]
Benjamin: job of editors will be easier if we had activity on classification
16:52:19 [sandro]
ack stabet
16:52:43 [stabet]
q-
16:52:49 [jeremy-scribe]
Chair: we want to have highly relevant use cases
16:52:52 [stabet]
zakim, mute me
16:52:52 [Zakim]
stabet should now be muted
16:53:07 [jeremy-scribe]
Chair: also about RIF, perhaps business area is not so relevant
16:53:15 [sandro]
ack PaulV
16:53:18 [johnhall]
zakim, mute me
16:53:18 [Zakim]
JohnHall should now be muted
16:53:39 [jeremy-scribe]
Benjamin: there are multiple dimensions - requirements on RIF, business area
16:54:18 [jeremy-scribe]
?: use case should specify rule language uses and interchange requirement
16:54:31 [sandro]
s/?/PaulV/
16:54:34 [edbark]
How do I put myself on the speaker queue?
16:54:36 [csma]
zakim, ack jimh
16:54:36 [Zakim]
jimh, you wanted to ask about template - missing "real world" tab
16:54:37 [Zakim]
I see hak on the speaker queue
16:54:50 [sandro]
edbark, type "q+ to say (whatever)"
16:54:52 [jeremy-scribe]
JimHendler: in WebOnt and Choreography requirements
16:54:52 [ChrisW]
q+
16:55:07 [jeremy-scribe]
having something about where and when this thing was implemented and done
16:55:12 [jeremy-scribe]
and what is the business case for it
16:55:32 [jeremy-scribe]
Many of the use cases seemed 'proposed use cases' rather than 'we have a specific need'
16:55:41 [edbark]
q+ special reqmts from use case
16:55:43 [jeremy-scribe]
e.g. 'my business is dependent on this'
16:55:49 [jeremy-scribe]
'we use this all the time'
16:55:56 [stabet]
q+
16:56:12 [jeremy-scribe]
Chair: suggests template should be modified to include this
16:56:17 [stabet]
q-
16:56:29 [jeremy-scribe]
Zakim, unmute me
16:56:29 [Zakim]
jeremy should no longer be muted
16:56:38 [stabet]
zakim, unmute me
16:56:38 [Zakim]
stabet should no longer be muted
16:56:47 [jeremy-scribe]
jim implementation status
16:57:24 [stabet]
zakim, mute me
16:57:24 [Zakim]
stabet should now be muted
16:57:26 [vassilis]
vassilis has joined #rif
16:57:30 [sandro]
q?
16:57:30 [jeremy-scribe]
jeremy: will people need to revise already submitted use cases?
16:57:36 [edbark]
to Zakim, q+
16:57:37 [Allen]
+q
16:57:45 [csma]
q?
16:57:49 [Allen]
q
16:57:51 [jeremy-scribe]
chair: we could ask everyone to add this as a comment
16:58:23 [GaryHallmark]
+q
16:58:33 [jeremy-scribe]
proposal: on exisiting use cases a comment should be added to show implementation status, and business need
16:58:35 [GaryHallmark]
q+
16:58:56 [jeremy-scribe]
it could be in status field
16:59:06 [stabet]
q+
16:59:18 [jeremy-scribe]
proposal s/comment/status/
16:59:47 [csma]
q?
17:00:02 [jeremy-scribe]
s/business need/real world status/
17:00:13 [stabet]
stabet has joined #rif
17:00:14 [sandro]
ack hak
17:00:30 [jeremy-scribe]
hassan: classification is needed
17:00:49 [jeremy-scribe]
hassan: everyone has some criteria that they have implicitly used
17:00:50 [GaryHallmark]
just wondering how real an implementation of RIF can be when it isn't defined yet
17:01:00 [GaryHallmark]
q-
17:01:06 [Allen]
queue+
17:01:29 [stabet]
q-
17:01:45 [jeremy-scribe]
hassan: everyone should relate their own use case to other cases
17:01:57 [jeremy-scribe]
hassan: and give explanation of why the cases are linked
17:02:07 [jeremy-scribe]
hassan: this will build up an ontology of use cases
17:02:17 [jeremy-scribe]
hassan: I am not seeing anything emerge from use cases
17:02:25 [jeremy-scribe]
hassan: looks almost arbitrary
17:02:35 [jeremy-scribe]
hassan: we should be abstracting from them
17:02:49 [jeremy-scribe]
?: +1
17:02:59 [Hirtle]
s/?/Harold
17:03:01 [csma]
q?
17:03:05 [edbark]
q-
17:03:47 [jeremy-scribe]
chair: proposal is that use case submitters should link their use case to others with explanations of criteria
17:04:08 [jeremy-scribe]
Allen: I agree with hassan
17:04:08 [csma]
zakim, ack zakim
17:04:13 [Zakim]
I see ChrisW, Allen on the speaker queue
17:04:25 [csma]
zakim, ack allen
17:04:25 [Zakim]
I see ChrisW on the speaker queue
17:04:36 [jeremy-scribe]
Allen: about need for classifying, but I am not sure if linking to others is best way
17:04:51 [jeremy-scribe]
Allen: perhaps identify requirements coming out of use case
17:05:25 [jeremy-scribe]
Allen: linking might help but isn't only/best way
17:05:47 [Jeff]
Jeff has joined #rif
17:06:22 [jeremy-scribe]
chair: to allen and david, when do you want this information?
17:06:27 [jeremy-scribe]
editors: asap
17:06:31 [jeremy-scribe]
holidays coming
17:06:43 [jeremy-scribe]
chair suggest Dec 31 deadline
17:07:22 [hak]
on-going interactions is good and a must!
17:07:28 [jeremy-scribe]
chair: the more interactiive the better
17:07:34 [jeremy-scribe]
in producing the document
17:07:56 [jeremy-scribe]
editor: stuff that is in by the end of the year will be taken into account
17:08:11 [jeremy-scribe]
but later stuff may be accepted
17:08:18 [csma]
q?
17:08:24 [jeremy-scribe]
deadline of 31st proposed and accepted
17:08:42 [csma]
zakim, ack chrisw
17:08:42 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
17:08:47 [stabet]
q+
17:08:50 [jeremy-scribe]
ACTION everyone provide links to other uses cases or further classifying information
17:09:06 [jeremy-scribe]
(scribe missed chris comment)
17:09:35 [jeremy-scribe]
chris: ?? rule language used should be mentioned in scenario section of template
17:09:50 [kifer]
will there be an addition to the template for that classification info?
17:10:02 [Hirtle]
I believe Chris asked about what existing rule languages can handle the need
17:10:06 [jeremy-scribe]
chair: different parts of scenario could use different rule languages
17:10:18 [GaryHallmark]
q+
17:10:20 [csma]
q?
17:10:40 [jeremy-scribe]
chair: are we tralking interchange language or rule language
17:10:50 [jeremy-scribe]
chris: which rule language/systems support this
17:11:33 [jeremy-scribe]
some or all of actors use rule systems, and these rule systems should be identified
17:11:44 [jeremy-scribe]
chris: it could go in the benefit of interchange section
17:12:07 [jeremy-scribe]
chair: it could go with actors
17:12:22 [MM]
it can be quite hard to push to the use case's authors to already do the precise analysis wrt existing rule systems...
17:12:22 [stabet]
q- csma answered my question
17:12:22 [stabet]
q-
17:12:44 [ChrisW]
q-
17:12:56 [csma]
q?
17:13:16 [jeremy-scribe]
proposal include about each of the actors which rule languages/systems they use
17:13:23 [MM]
yes, informal hints are much better and makes more sense
17:13:27 [jeremy-scribe]
or type of rule language (e.g. production rules)
17:14:25 [csma]
q?
17:14:29 [hak]
q+
17:14:49 [jeremy-scribe]
?: unclear if classification of use cases and classification of rule systems is the same thing
17:14:55 [jeremy-scribe]
s/?/Gary/
17:15:09 [sandro]
ack GaryHallmark
17:15:11 [sandro]
ack hak
17:15:11 [jeremy-scribe]
Zakim, mute me
17:15:12 [Zakim]
jeremy should now be muted
17:15:18 [csma]
zakim, ack garyhallmark
17:15:18 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
17:15:32 [Zakim]
-EnricoFranconi
17:15:32 [jeremy-scribe]
hassan: of course these classifications are orthogonal
17:15:32 [franconi]
bye guys
17:15:51 [ChrisW]
ciao enrico
17:15:57 [csma]
bye enrico
17:16:03 [stabet]
bye enrico
17:16:13 [stabet]
q+
17:16:16 [jeremy-scribe]
use cases will identifty features of systems, but also more about this use case
17:16:29 [dieterf]
dieterf has joined #rif
17:16:44 [jeremy-scribe]
Zakim, unmute me
17:16:44 [Zakim]
jeremy should no longer be muted
17:16:51 [stabet]
q-
17:17:03 [csma]
q?
17:18:29 [MM]
q+
17:18:38 [jeremy-scribe]
editors should update template
17:18:43 [csma]
q?
17:19:16 [hak]
good idea!
17:19:25 [jeremy-scribe]
proposal is that use case submitters should
17:19:25 [jeremy-scribe]
- link their use case to others with explanations of criteria
17:19:25 [jeremy-scribe]
- show implementation status,
17:19:25 [jeremy-scribe]
- business need
17:19:25 [jeremy-scribe]
- real world status
17:19:26 [jeremy-scribe]
- rule languages/systems used by actors
17:19:28 [jeremy-scribe]
- rule languages/system that already support this use case
17:19:30 [jeremy-scribe]
???
17:20:12 [jeremy-scribe]
suggestion that editors shoudl clearly identify what was modified
17:20:22 [holger]
DIeterFensel is dieterf
17:20:24 [MM]
Zakim, unmute MM
17:20:24 [Zakim]
sorry, MM, I do not see a party named 'MM'
17:20:29 [MM]
Zakim, unmute me
17:20:29 [Zakim]
sorry, MM, I do not see a party named 'MM'
17:20:56 [sandro]
Hirtle and Allen on irc
17:20:56 [csma]
q?
17:20:59 [jeremy-scribe]
action AllenAndDave update template clearly identifying what has change
17:21:48 [jeremy-scribe]
suggestion that change should be discussed on e-mail fbefore the submitters have to update
17:22:12 [jeremy-scribe]
chair: isn't discussion here sufficient
17:22:26 [csma]
q?
17:22:35 [edbark]
MM's idea would be great if we had time!
17:22:38 [csma]
zakim, ack mm
17:22:38 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
17:23:05 [jeremy-scribe]
?: it is more efficient to have a written thing to discuss
17:23:18 [jeremy-scribe]
chair: it would be better if we had the time
17:23:25 [Harold]
The authors only will know what links, implementations, etc. they want to add.
17:23:40 [jeremy-scribe]
?: ask for two days discussion on e-mail
17:23:45 [jeremy-scribe]
chair: there isn't time
17:24:01 [jeremy-scribe]
?: it was just a suggestion, agree with chair
17:24:04 [Harold]
The editors could quickly change the template as decided today (clearly marking what they changed).
17:24:36 [csma]
q?
17:24:54 [jeremy-scribe]
chair: - rule languages/systems used by actors is same as - rule languages/system that already support this use case
17:25:16 [dieterf]
are we going to extend the length of the telco or skipping topics?
17:25:25 [MM]
Zakim, please mute Massimo
17:25:25 [Zakim]
Massimo should now be muted
17:25:43 [hak]
q+
17:25:52 [jeremy-scribe]
ACTION allen&dave Update template in light of this discussion clearly identifying what has change
17:26:17 [jeremy-scribe]
ACTION everyone update their use cases in light of changed items in template
17:26:27 [jeremy-scribe]
discussion of extending telecon
17:26:33 [stabet]
stabet has joined #rif
17:26:35 [csma]
q?
17:26:38 [jeremy-scribe]
chair: suggest 30 mins extension
17:26:39 [stabet]
agrees with Sandro
17:26:46 [jeremy-scribe]
sandro: i would rather not go that way
17:26:53 [hak]
q-
17:26:55 [jeremy-scribe]
?: +1
17:27:01 [ChrisW]
suggest 15 mins
17:27:03 [ekw]
agree with Sandro
17:27:17 [jeremy-scribe]
chair: we will proceed quickly through other items
17:27:39 [jeremy-scribe]
sandro: have we agreed an extension?
17:28:08 [jeremy-scribe]
chair: propose 15 min extension
17:28:11 [jeremy-scribe]
no objections
17:28:18 [kifer]
bye, have to go
17:28:21 [jeremy-scribe]
clearly identifying what has change
17:28:24 [Zakim]
-msintek?
17:28:28 [csma]
bye michael
17:28:28 [jeremy-scribe]
4. OWL & RDF Compatibility (15 min)
17:28:42 [jeremy-scribe]
sandro: some edits on the Wiki
17:28:52 [jeremy-scribe]
I am quite impressed with the edits
17:28:56 [csma]
q?
17:29:04 [jeremy-scribe]
sandro: does anyone want to say anyhting
17:29:14 [jeremy-scribe]
pfps: it is hard to put together something without structure
17:29:23 [jeremy-scribe]
pfps: who is going to generate structure?
17:29:41 [jeremy-scribe]
sandro: I thought we would agree with an enumeration approach (agreed at f2f breakout)
17:29:47 [csma]
q?
17:29:52 [jeremy-scribe]
sandro: it looks like you (pfps) were goind ahead with that
17:30:01 [jeremy-scribe]
pfps: not convinced
17:30:24 [jeremy-scribe]
chair: let's keep enumerating and have a conf call to discuss structure
17:30:35 [ChrisW]
q+ to ask for compatibility use cases
17:30:36 [jeremy-scribe]
chair: let's decide on Jan 3rd when to discuss it
17:30:54 [jeremy-scribe]
sandro: I thought we were going to have discussion in main telecons, not break outs
17:31:16 [jeremy-scribe]
chair: I thought we would discuss on Jan 3rd, but technical discussion may get too deep
17:31:23 [kifer]
kifer has joined #rif
17:31:33 [jeremy-scribe]
sandro: I don't know what are the priorities for Jan 3rd meeting
17:31:38 [ekw]
Didn't Peter already say he wouldn't make 3 Jan telecon?
17:31:45 [Zakim]
-Bijan
17:32:06 [pfps]
yes, it is very unlikely that I will be available 3 Jan
17:32:11 [jeremy-scribe]
scribe: -Bijan was -JimH
17:32:29 [jeremy-scribe]
discussion of date for RDF/OWL compat doc
17:32:34 [jeremy-scribe]
no date decided
17:32:38 [edbark]
several SW folks will be missing on 3 Jan
17:32:41 [dieterf]
q+
17:32:42 [sandro]
peter, please make sure your regets are in the wiki page for that meeting.
17:33:07 [jeremy-scribe]
chair: given peter will not be on 3rd Jan, maybe not appropriate to discuss at that meeting
17:33:14 [sandro]
["OWL Compatibility"]
17:33:24 [Zakim]
-JosD
17:33:46 [pfps]
hmm, are the regrets requirements retroactive?
17:33:46 [jeremy-scribe]
sandro: if use case links are relevant to this compatibility, link use case to OWL Compatibility
17:34:13 [jeremy-scribe]
me to pfps: yes - not worth complaining
17:34:34 [jeremy-scribe]
chair: this in addition to list of earlier
17:34:50 [pfps]
some automated mechanisms for generating meeting pages would be very useful
17:34:57 [jeremy-scribe]
also links to classification too
17:35:09 [jeremy-scribe]
ACTION jeremy modify minutes of previous section to include these links
17:35:14 [csma]
q?
17:35:15 [gstoil]
gstoil has joined #rif
17:35:24 [sandro]
ack ChrisW
17:35:24 [Zakim]
ChrisW, you wanted to ask for compatibility use cases
17:35:52 [jeremy-scribe]
ChrisW: it would be good to have more use cases on compatibility
17:36:00 [jeremy-scribe]
chair: +1
17:36:27 [ChrisW]
ack me
17:36:42 [csma]
zakim, ack chrisw
17:36:42 [Zakim]
I see dieterf on the speaker queue
17:37:00 [csma]
zakim, ack dieterf
17:37:00 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
17:37:06 [jeremy-scribe]
?: if pfps wants structure, why doesn't jos and pfps propose structure
17:37:15 [Zakim]
-pfps
17:37:16 [jeremy-scribe]
pfps: neither of us have status with repsect to the document
17:37:37 [Zakim]
+??P13
17:37:44 [pfps]
zakim, ??p13 is pfps
17:37:44 [Zakim]
+pfps; got it
17:37:57 [jeremy-scribe]
chair: we will discuss structure next year
17:38:09 [jeremy-scribe]
chair: is there one document, why two pages?
17:38:23 [jeremy-scribe]
sandro: breakout had consensus on one document with two sections
17:38:35 [jeremy-scribe]
chair: are there any objections to this?
17:38:38 [csma]
q?
17:38:44 [jeremy-scribe]
sandro: we don't need to decide now.
17:39:21 [Zakim]
-??P49
17:39:28 [jeremy-scribe]
chair: resolved there will be one document on RDF and OWL compat
17:39:36 [csma]
q?
17:39:36 [paula]
+paula
17:39:42 [jeremy-scribe]
5. Classification (15 min)
17:39:58 [csma]
q?
17:40:10 [jeremy-scribe]
chris if there are exisitng articles on classifying rule systems please post links to web pages
17:40:25 [csma]
q?
17:40:25 [jeremy-scribe]
benjamin: the link I posted this morning is pertinent to it, I will post more links
17:40:36 [pfps]
q+
17:40:55 [jeremy-scribe]
chris: if people can think of good use cases which demonstrate differences in different semantic approaches to rules
17:41:18 [jeremy-scribe]
chris: is phase 1 classification important, there was discussion
17:41:25 [paula]
zakim, ??P49 is paula
17:41:25 [Zakim]
I already had ??P49 as ??P49, paula
17:41:35 [jeremy-scribe]
digression into function-free or full horn as phase 1
17:41:44 [jeremy-scribe]
seems to be full horn
17:41:48 [csma]
q?
17:42:23 [jeremy-scribe]
?? what was the action to put soemthing on wiki, can someone scribe that please
17:42:28 [dieterfensel]
dieterfensel has joined #rif
17:42:33 [Benjamin]
Benjamin has joined #rif
17:42:55 [jeremy-scribe]
pfps: what are teh requirements on list ??
17:42:59 [csma]
action on harold to put a link to RuleML classification on wiki
17:42:59 [Benjamin]
Benj wants to get on queue
17:43:15 [bijan]
er
17:43:15 [stabet]
Benjamin: type q+
17:43:19 [jeremy-scribe]
chris: you are saying it is not clear what the current classificationd desiderata are
17:43:24 [csma]
q?
17:43:30 [bijan]
ack
17:43:33 [jeremy-scribe]
ACTION chris clarify desiderata forlist of classifications
17:43:37 [bijan]
zakim, ack
17:43:37 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'ack', bijan
17:43:42 [bijan]
ack pfps
17:43:42 [csma]
zakim, ack pfps
17:43:43 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
17:43:48 [pfps]
q-
17:43:55 [jeremy-scribe]
Benjamin: I am a bit worried about classification of rules as opposed to rule systems
17:44:04 [Harold]
q+
17:44:10 [jeremy-scribe]
Benajmain: on wikis how radical an edit is polite?
17:44:39 [jeremy-scribe]
I am hesitant to do drastic editing, but also hesitant to see things charge off in wrong direction
17:44:50 [jeremy-scribe]
chrisW: have discussion on e-mail
17:44:58 [jeremy-scribe]
sandro: add note to bottom of wiki page
17:45:14 [jeremy-scribe]
chair: if you add something please identify yourself on wiki
17:45:23 [jeremy-scribe]
chair: you added this at this time
17:45:40 [jeremy-scribe]
?: on wikipedia there is a discussion page about each page
17:45:50 [jeremy-scribe]
sandro: discussion can be below a line on the page
17:45:59 [jeremy-scribe]
?: let's do that
17:46:06 [csma]
q?
17:46:13 [pfps]
+1
17:46:23 [jeremy-scribe]
q+ to propose discussion on mailing list
17:46:44 [jeremy-scribe]
if you offend someone discuss offline
17:46:55 [csma]
q?
17:47:11 [ekw]
+1
17:47:17 [jeremy-scribe]
benjamin: would be helpful to have guidelines for wiki usage
17:47:18 [GW]
GW has joined #rif
17:47:43 [jeremy-scribe]
ACTION sandro add link about wiki usage
17:48:19 [bijan]
I also worry about us moving to using a wiki as the primary medium for working group work as this is a fairly radical departure from normal WG practice
17:48:25 [jeremy-scribe]
Harold we should look to charter for ...
17:48:34 [jeremy-scribe]
e.g. datatypes should be brought in
17:48:38 [bijan]
Not only is it noval for us, it's noval for W3C observers
17:48:50 [sandro]
bijan, I'd love to talk with you about this -- maybe this isn't the place. :-)
17:48:57 [ChrisW]
suggest we move this to email and adjourn
17:49:01 [bijan]
It's WG business
17:49:06 [bijan]
I'll send an email
17:49:11 [bijan]
as well
17:49:20 [ChrisW]
"this" == current phone discussino
17:49:22 [edbark]
q+
17:49:27 [csma]
q?
17:49:54 [csma]
zakim, ack harold
17:49:54 [Zakim]
I see jeremy, edbark on the speaker queue
17:50:14 [csma]
zakim, ack jeremy
17:50:14 [Zakim]
jeremy, you wanted to propose discussion on mailing list
17:50:15 [Zakim]
I see edbark on the speaker queue
17:50:27 [jeremy-scribe]
edbark agreed with harold
17:50:37 [csma]
zakim, ack edbark
17:50:37 [Zakim]
I see no one on the speaker queue
17:50:47 [stabet]
shares Ed's concern
17:50:48 [jeremy-scribe]
it is improtant to address things that affect the way rule language works, as well as things in charter
17:50:58 [jeremy-scribe]
?? what was atcion on harold
17:51:32 [csma]
q?
17:51:55 [stabet]
zakim, unmute m
17:51:55 [Zakim]
'm' is ambiguous, stabet
17:52:00 [stabet]
zakim, unmute me
17:52:00 [Zakim]
stabet should no longer be muted
17:52:06 [Harold]
I suggest, in particular, to do a Phase 1 fine classification
17:52:24 [MM]
Happy holidays to everybody!
17:52:27 [jeremy-scribe]
chair: propse close, happy xmass and new year
17:52:27 [Zakim]
-hak
17:52:28 [stabet]
bye everyone thanks!
17:52:29 [Zakim]
-pfps
17:52:29 [Zakim]
-JohnHall
17:52:30 [Zakim]
-JimHendler
17:52:31 [Zakim]
-Evan_Wallace
17:52:32 [stabet]
-stabet
17:52:33 [Zakim]
-Ora_Lassila
17:52:33 [deborah_n]
quit bye
17:52:34 [Zakim]
-DIeterFensel
17:52:35 [Zakim]
-EdBarkmeyer
17:52:35 [PaulV]
PaulV has left #RIF
17:52:36 [Zakim]
-Sandro
17:52:37 [Zakim]
-AllenGinsberg
17:52:38 [Zakim]
-IanHorrocks
17:52:40 [Zakim]
-Elisa_Kendall
17:52:42 [Zakim]
-Hirtle
17:52:44 [Zakim]
-PaulVincent
17:52:46 [Zakim]
-BenjaminGrosof
17:52:48 [Zakim]
-kifer?
17:52:49 [minsu]
벼ㅑㅅ
17:52:50 [Zakim]
-StanDevitt
17:52:50 [GaryHallmark]
-
17:52:51 [minsu]
quit
17:52:52 [Zakim]
-??P35
17:52:54 [Zakim]
- +1.503.525.aann
17:52:56 [Zakim]
-aharth
17:52:58 [Zakim]
-GerdWagner
17:53:00 [Zakim]
-Harold&Jing
17:53:02 [Zakim]
-jeremy
17:53:05 [Zakim]
-??P31
17:53:06 [Zakim]
- +1.631.205.aaqq
17:53:08 [Zakim]
-Massimo
17:53:10 [Zakim]
-Mike_Dean
17:53:12 [Zakim]
-DeborahNichols
17:53:14 [Zakim]
-MarkusK
17:53:16 [Zakim]
-stabet
17:53:18 [Zakim]
-Giorgos_Stamou
17:53:20 [Zakim]
-??P41
17:53:28 [jeremy-scribe]
Zakim, list attendees
17:53:31 [csma]
zakim, list participants
17:53:36 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been +1.506.444.aaaa, +1.703.983.aabb, Hirtle, Sandro, +1.703.983.aacc, DeborahNichols, PaulVincent, +3539153aadd, DIeterFensel, Christian,
17:53:39 [Zakim]
... jeremy, +1.703.983.aaee, AllenGinsberg, IanHorrocks, EnricoFranconi, PFPS, ChrisW, +49.892.aaff, Giorgos_Stamou, +1.301.975.aagg, Mike_Dean, Evan_Wallace, EdBarkmeyer,
17:53:42 [Zakim]
... +1.617.964.aahh, +43.512.507.aaii, Ora_Lassila, BenjaminGrosof, +1.506.444.aajj, Elisa_Kendall, aharth, +43.512.507.aakk, Uli, Harold&Jing, Massimo, +1.631.751.aall,
17:53:45 [Zakim]
... +1.631.205.aamm, JimHendler, Bijan, +1.503.525.aann, +1.604.930.aaoo, hak, MarkusK, +1.631.205.aapp, +1.631.205.aaqq, +44.207.723.aarr, JohnHall, JosD, stabet, +49.355.69.aass,
17:53:48 [Zakim]
... GerdWagner, +1.519.579.aatt, StanDevitt, kifer?, msintek?
17:53:50 [Zakim]
-Uli
17:53:51 [Uli]
Uli has left #rif
17:53:52 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been +1.506.444.aaaa, +1.703.983.aabb, Hirtle, Sandro, +1.703.983.aacc, DeborahNichols, PaulVincent, +3539153aadd, DIeterFensel, Christian,
17:53:55 [Zakim]
... jeremy, +1.703.983.aaee, AllenGinsberg, IanHorrocks, EnricoFranconi, PFPS, ChrisW, +49.892.aaff, Giorgos_Stamou, +1.301.975.aagg, Mike_Dean, Evan_Wallace, EdBarkmeyer,
17:53:58 [Zakim]
... +1.617.964.aahh, +43.512.507.aaii, Ora_Lassila, BenjaminGrosof, +1.506.444.aajj, Elisa_Kendall, aharth, +43.512.507.aakk, Uli, Harold&Jing, Massimo, +1.631.751.aall,
17:54:02 [Zakim]
... +1.631.205.aamm, JimHendler, Bijan, +1.503.525.aann, +1.604.930.aaoo, hak, MarkusK, +1.631.205.aapp, +1.631.205.aaqq, +44.207.723.aarr, JohnHall, JosD, stabet, +49.355.69.aass,
17:54:04 [msintek]
msintek has left #rif
17:54:04 [Zakim]
... GerdWagner, +1.519.579.aatt, StanDevitt, kifer?, msintek?
17:54:29 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, make logs world-visible
17:54:32 [jeremy-scribe]
axel particpated ..
17:54:52 [jeremy-scribe]
?? where is log?
17:55:01 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, where is the log?
17:55:02 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. Sorry, nothing found for 'where is the log'
17:55:15 [sandro]
RRSAgent, pointer?
17:55:15 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2005/12/20-rif-irc#T17-55-15
17:55:29 [sandro]
RRSAgent, publish minutes
17:55:29 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'publish minutes', sandro. Try /msg RRSAgent help
17:55:41 [sandro]
RRSAgent, scribe
17:55:41 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'scribe', sandro. Try /msg RRSAgent help
17:56:43 [MM]
s/publish/create sandro
17:57:13 [Uli]
Uli has joined #rif
17:57:22 [jeremy-scribe]
I will try and have minutes ready in the next couple of hours, need a break now though
17:57:36 [ChrisW]
thanks jeremy!!!!
17:57:42 [sandro]
understood, Jeremy! THANKS!
17:57:47 [csma]
thanx jeremy
17:57:57 [MM]
esp in the first meetings when you can't recognize all the voices jeremy... I don't envy you ;)
17:57:59 [Zakim]
-ChrisW
17:58:00 [Zakim]
-Christian
17:58:00 [Zakim]
SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended
17:58:01 [Zakim]
Attendees were +1.506.444.aaaa, +1.703.983.aabb, Hirtle, Sandro, +1.703.983.aacc, DeborahNichols, PaulVincent, +3539153aadd, DIeterFensel, Christian, jeremy, +1.703.983.aaee,
17:58:06 [Zakim]
... AllenGinsberg, IanHorrocks, EnricoFranconi, PFPS, ChrisW, +49.892.aaff, Giorgos_Stamou, +1.301.975.aagg, Mike_Dean, Evan_Wallace, EdBarkmeyer, +1.617.964.aahh,
17:58:09 [Zakim]
... +43.512.507.aaii, Ora_Lassila, BenjaminGrosof, +1.506.444.aajj, Elisa_Kendall, aharth, +43.512.507.aakk, Uli, Harold&Jing, Massimo, +1.631.751.aall, +1.631.205.aamm,
17:58:12 [Zakim]
... JimHendler, Bijan, +1.503.525.aann, +1.604.930.aaoo, hak, MarkusK, +1.631.205.aapp, +1.631.205.aaqq, +44.207.723.aarr, JohnHall, JosD, stabet, +49.355.69.aass, GerdWagner,
17:58:14 [Zakim]
... +1.519.579.aatt, StanDevitt, kifer?, msintek?
17:58:34 [sandro]
I just want to see how well RRSagent does does for this:
17:58:39 [sandro]
rrsagent, create minutes
17:58:39 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/12/20-rif-minutes.html sandro
17:59:20 [bijan]
bijan has left #rif
18:06:17 [pfps]
pfps has left #rif
18:23:19 [IanH]
IanH has joined #rif
18:23:52 [IanH]
IanH has joined #rif
18:55:31 [GW]
q
18:55:45 [GW]
q!
18:56:04 [GW]
quit
20:03:25 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #rif