IRC log of swbp on 2005-12-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:55:58 [RRSAgent]
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14:55:58 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/12/13-swbp-irc
14:56:09 [RalphS]
Meeting: RDF-in-XHTML Task Force
15:03:25 [RalphS]
Previous: 2005-12-06 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2005Dec/0008.html
15:03:56 [RalphS]
-> http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes 2005-12-06 meeting record
15:04:06 [RalphS]
rrsagent, please make this record public
15:04:26 [benadida]
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15:04:55 [Zakim]
SW_BPD(rdfxhtml)10:00AM has now started
15:05:01 [Zakim]
+Ben_Adida
15:05:30 [Zakim]
+Ralph
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-Ben_Adida
15:05:49 [Zakim]
+Ben_Adida
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+??P30
15:06:19 [Zakim]
+??P31
15:06:20 [jeremy]
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15:06:44 [RalphS]
zakim, ??p30 is Jeremy
15:06:44 [Zakim]
+Jeremy; got it
15:06:49 [RalphS]
zakim, ??p31 is Mark
15:06:49 [Zakim]
+Mark; got it
15:08:40 [jeremy]
AOB item: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Dec/0056
15:08:56 [RalphS]
Chair: Ben
15:08:59 [jeremy]
discusses #fragIDs in RDF/XML and HTML
15:09:28 [RalphS]
agenda+ Schedule Review
15:09:37 [RalphS]
agenda+ New draft of RDF/A primer
15:09:58 [RalphS]
agenda+ SPARQL and URIs
15:10:48 [RalphS]
zakim, take up agendum 3
15:10:48 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "SPARQL and URIs" taken up [from RalphS]
15:11:02 [RalphS]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2005Dec/0018.html QName production in SPARQL grammar [Jeremy 2005-12-13]
15:11:44 [RalphS]
Jeremy: in my message to DAWG I only noted some of the QName syntax restrictions, not all the restrictions that we care about in RDF/A
15:12:13 [RalphS]
... SPARQL appears to have taken the syntax for QNames from XML 1.1 spec and mangled it a little
15:12:41 [RalphS]
... I suggested to them that they mangle it more, though we [in CURIEs] mangle it a lot more
15:13:20 [RalphS]
... larger question about "what is a namespace URI"; reference to namespace names in SPARQL spec is clearly meant to be informative, not normative
15:13:53 [RalphS]
... I don't really care whether SPARQL chooses to allow a digit after ':' but it's chipping away at the issue
15:14:42 [RalphS]
... SPARQL appears to be the first normative use of QNames as derived from the Turtle and N3 heritage
15:15:35 [RalphS]
... it is thus an opportunity to raise the issue formally
15:17:16 [RalphS]
... DanC did ask whether the [RDF-in-XHTML] Task Force has a position
15:21:29 [benadida]
RalphS: WG discussion, during TF update for RDF-in-XHTML
15:21:52 [benadida]
... told WG where 3 documents would end up, with primer the only published doc by SWBPD
15:22:11 [benadida]
... Guus pushing all TFs to publish their docs before end of jan
15:22:34 [benadida]
... the Primer will include more rationale for CURIEs
15:22:55 [benadida]
... we will be asking the WG for opinion on CURIEs
15:23:00 [benadida]
... Guus was skeptical
15:23:28 [benadida]
... requested that CURIE piece be modular (so it could be removed?)
15:23:37 [benadida]
... he may have somewhat backed off of that
15:23:50 [benadida]
... more importantly, the Primer should be written for readers who are not experts.
15:24:13 [benadida]
... this is in agreement with our previous discussions within the TF
15:24:32 [benadida]
... this led to a longer discussion about CURIEs
15:24:41 [benadida]
... about how important CURIEs are.
15:25:10 [benadida]
... Jeremy and I cited the number of features that would be lost without CURIEs.
15:25:31 [benadida]
... there was some discussion within the WG, and we should anticipate more of this discussion from the WG
15:26:57 [RalphS]
Jeremy: in Guus's role as chair, it's appropriate for him to express skepticism about including material that may be controversial
15:27:07 [benadida]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/HTML/2006-01-15-rdfa-primer
15:27:21 [RalphS]
zakim, move to agendum 2
15:27:21 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "New draft of RDF/A primer" taken up [from RalphS]
15:27:33 [MarkB]
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15:27:35 [benadida]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/HTML/2006-01-15-rdfa-primer
15:27:58 [RalphS]
$Id: 2006-01-15-rdfa-primer.xml,v 1.5 2005/12/13 14:57:55 adida Exp $
15:28:14 [RalphS]
Ben: I've tried to follow one thread through the examples
15:29:21 [RalphS]
... if we don't mention bnodes or reification then the justification for CURIEs is not as clear
15:30:20 [RalphS]
-> http://www.w3.org/2005/12/12-swbp-irc#T19-03-56 RDF-in-HTML TF discussion in yesterday's SWBPD WG telecon
15:31:13 [RalphS]
Jeremy: Table of Contents appears to address Guus' concern that the advanced material, e.g. CURIEs, be later in the document
15:31:47 [RalphS]
Mark: we could refer to "compact URI" in the early part of the document before we introduce the term "CURIE"
15:32:17 [RalphS]
Ben: I took special care to keep it simple, specifically not referring to jargon such as "qname"
15:33:21 [RalphS]
Mark: it's good to keep things simple in the first part of the document, however anyone who is XML-literate will assume those abbreviations are QNames
15:33:34 [RalphS]
... the current version is still very RDF-oriented
15:33:59 [RalphS]
... another motivation of RDF/A is to encourage authors to mark-up HTML documents so that we can extract more triples from them
15:36:26 [RalphS]
... perhaps adding another scenario to illustrate this rather than overloading the Shutr scenario
15:37:01 [RalphS]
... I have hundreds of examples from HTML that I'd like to see people do and am willing to write another section
15:39:10 [RalphS]
... perhaps a much slower build-up, not introducing N3 results as quickly
15:39:34 [RalphS]
... perhaps a person's home page that gets linked into Shutr later
15:40:21 [RalphS]
Jeremy: the current document is an easy read for those who live and breathe triples
15:41:28 [RalphS]
... for others who understand something about semantics and are happy to add more semantics but aren't thinking in triples, it would be nice to introduce this in a way that says we're showing how to tell what a document is about
15:45:11 [RalphS]
Ben: I'd like to keep the write baton until the end of the week then turn it over to Mark for 2 weeks
15:48:14 [RalphS]
Ben: the editing form is http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/HTML/2006-01-15-rdfa-primer.xml
15:51:37 [RalphS]
Ralph: as we all can see the xmlspec version nicely formatted, we can trash the HTML version while we're in editing mode
15:58:19 [RalphS]
Jeremy: Gary NG and David Booth have agreed to review the primer if we send it to the WG by 9 January
15:58:36 [RalphS]
zakim, take up agendum 1
15:58:36 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Schedule Review" taken up [from RalphS]
15:59:10 [RalphS]
-> http://www.w3.org/2005/12/12-swbp-irc#T19-18-43 reviewer commitment
16:00:28 [Zakim]
-Mark
16:01:06 [RalphS]
next meeting: 3 Jan
16:01:07 [MarkB]
Main thing is that next week will probably be hectic due to trying finish off things for customers before Xmas.
16:01:16 [RalphS]
Ralph and Mark will communicate via email
16:02:08 [RalphS]
Ben: want to review the issues list and propose status for each of them, possibly deferring some
16:03:51 [Zakim]
-Ralph
16:03:52 [Zakim]
-Jeremy
16:03:54 [Zakim]
-Ben_Adida
16:03:55 [Zakim]
SW_BPD(rdfxhtml)10:00AM has ended
16:03:56 [Zakim]
Attendees were Ben_Adida, Ralph, Jeremy, Mark
16:04:18 [RalphS]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
16:04:18 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/12/13-swbp-minutes.html RalphS
16:05:15 [jjc]
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18:09:34 [RalphS]
rrsagent, bye
18:09:34 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items