17:53:44 RRSAgent has joined #swbp 17:53:44 logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/12/12-swbp-irc 17:53:46 zakim, this will be swpbd 17:53:46 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled near this time, RalphS 17:53:48 zakim, this will be swpb 17:53:48 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled near this time, RalphS 17:53:55 zakim, this will be swbp 17:53:55 ok, RalphS; I see SW_BPD()1:00PM scheduled to start in 7 minutes 17:55:58 jacco has joined #swbp 17:59:15 Guus has joined #swbp 18:00:21 zakim, who is here? 18:00:21 SW_BPD()1:00PM has not yet started, Guus 18:00:22 On IRC I see Guus, jacco, RRSAgent, Zakim, BenjaminNguyen, giorgos, RalphS, chalaschek, aliman, danbri 18:01:07 dwood has joined #swbp 18:01:10 zakim, who's on the call? 18:01:10 SW_BPD()1:00PM has not yet started, RalphS 18:01:11 On IRC I see dwood, Guus, jacco, RRSAgent, Zakim, BenjaminNguyen, giorgos, RalphS, chalaschek, aliman, danbri 18:01:23 zakim, you're confused! 18:01:23 I don't understand 'you're confused!', RalphS 18:01:27 zakim, this is sw_bpd 18:01:27 ok, RalphS; that matches SW_BPD()1:00PM 18:01:30 zakim, who's on the call? 18:01:30 On the phone I see Giorgos_Stamou, Guus_Schreiber, Elisa_Kendall, Jacco_van_Ossenbruggen, Ralph, David_Wood 18:01:37 Guus, Dwood, I'm in IRC only at moment... I hope to dial in, but have another commitment to get finished first... 18:01:43 zakim, mute me 18:01:43 Jacco_van_Ossenbruggen should now be muted 18:02:11 Meeting: SemWeb Best Practices and Deployment WG 18:02:14 +DBooth 18:02:15 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Dec/0049.html 18:02:18 Previous: 2005-11-28 http://www.w3.org/2005/11/28-swbp-minutes.html 18:02:27 bwm has joined #swbp 18:02:31 Regrets: Libby, PhilT 18:02:35 zakim, I am David_Wood 18:02:35 ok, dwood, I now associate you with David_Wood 18:02:35 david, ok, I'm happy to be on the phone now :-) 18:02:35 dbooth has joined #swbp 18:02:49 Guus, OK. 18:03:02 +??P6 18:03:03 +Alistair_Miles (was ??P6) 18:03:08 Elisa has joined #swbp 18:03:10 Hi all, on IRC only 18:03:25 +??P8 18:03:29 sorry, no headset 18:03:45 Zakim, ??p8 is bwm 18:03:45 +bwm; got it 18:03:46 zakim, ??p8 is Brian 18:03:46 I already had ??P8 as bwm, RalphS 18:04:01 +[IPcaller] 18:04:02 zakim, who is here? 18:04:03 On the phone I see Giorgos_Stamou, Guus_Schreiber, Elisa_Kendall, Jacco_van_Ossenbruggen (muted), Ralph, David_Wood, DBooth, aliman, bwm, [IPcaller] 18:04:05 On IRC I see Elisa, dbooth, bwm, dwood, Guus, jacco, RRSAgent, Zakim, BenjaminNguyen, giorgos, RalphS, chalaschek, aliman, danbri 18:04:31 zakim, ipcaller is Jeremy 18:04:31 +Jeremy; got it 18:04:31 jeremy has joined #swbp 18:04:39 GaryNg has joined #swbp 18:04:55 DeborahM has joined #swbp 18:05:20 + +1.760.476.aaaa 18:05:30 zakim, mute me 18:05:30 David_Wood should now be muted 18:05:42 +Deb_McGuinness 18:05:59 i just joined on the phone too 18:06:12 zakim, aaaa is Gary 18:06:12 +Gary; got it 18:06:39 zakim, pick a scribe 18:06:39 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose aliman 18:07:07 Scribe: Alistair 18:07:12 ScribeNick: aliman 18:07:13 zakim, mute me 18:07:13 aliman should now be muted 18:07:16 zakim, mute me 18:07:17 Elisa_Kendall should now be muted 18:07:26 +Mike_Uschold 18:07:27 Scribe: Alistair 18:07:27 ScribeNick: aliman_scribe 18:07:49 zakim, who is here? 18:07:49 On the phone I see Giorgos_Stamou, Guus_Schreiber, Elisa_Kendall (muted), Jacco_van_Ossenbruggen (muted), Ralph, David_Wood (muted), DBooth, aliman (muted), bwm, Jeremy (muted), 18:07:53 ... Gary, Deb_McGuinness, Mike_Uschold 18:07:55 On IRC I see DeborahM, GaryNg, jeremy, Elisa, dbooth, bwm, dwood, Guus, jacco, RRSAgent, Zakim, BenjaminNguyen, giorgos, RalphS, chalaschek, aliman_scribe, danbri 18:08:08 zakim, chalaschek is umd 18:08:08 sorry, chalaschek, I do not recognize a party named 'chalaschek' 18:08:29 zakim, unmute me 18:08:29 sorry, aliman_scribe, I do not see a party named 'aliman_scribe' 18:08:43 zakim, nick aliman_scribe is alistair 18:08:43 sorry, RalphS, I do not see a party named 'alistair' 18:08:43 zakim, aliman is really me 18:08:45 +aliman_scribe; got it 18:08:46 zakim, nick aliman_scribe is alinan 18:08:46 sorry, RalphS, I do not see a party named 'alinan' 18:09:01 Previous: 2005-11-28 http://www.w3.org/2005/11/28-swbp-minutes.html 18:09:05 Seconded 18:09:08 PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 28 November telecon: 18:09:09 Only IRC log available?! 18:09:11 http://www.w3.org/2005/11/28-swbp-irc 18:09:11 second -- I've reviewed them 18:09:12 PROPOSED next meeting 9 January 2006 18:09:17 Minutes: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Dec/0053.html 18:09:18 zakim, unmute me 18:09:18 aliman_scribe should no longer be muted 18:09:31 second Mike U 18:09:35 zakim, unmute me 18:09:35 Elisa_Kendall should no longer be muted 18:09:46 resolved to accept minutes of 28 nov telcon 18:10:02 PROPOSED next meeting 9 January 2006 18:10:17 hearing no objections, resolved 18:10:51 Agenda amendments: 18:10:52 jjc: wants OWL discussion under AOB 18:10:59 zakim, mute me 18:10:59 Elisa_Kendall should now be muted 18:11:01 2. LIAISON 18:11:03 2.1 Proposed resolution httpRange-14 18:11:21 zakim, unmute me 18:11:21 Elisa_Kendall should no longer be muted 18:11:22 ACTION: Elisa Kendall to review DWood message on 18:11:24 httpRange-14 resolution: 18:11:25 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Sep/0010.html 18:11:55 elisa: had a discussion after last telcon ... outcome was I didn't need to do a review ... 18:11:58 It should be marked DONE 18:12:16 action is DONE 18:12:24 guus: any other issues? 18:12:32 zakim, unmute me 18:12:38 David_Wood should no longer be muted 18:13:19 dbooth: posted additional discussion to list ... we do need other people to have a look ... what i posted is in agreement with what elisa and davidw and i discussed ... what i posted goes further also ... reflects my viewpoints ... 18:13:48 ... can I please have comments from within the group. 18:14:00 dwood: i'll continue to be involved 18:14:17 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Dec/0055.html RE: httpRange-14: Use Case for RDF [DBooth 2005-12-12] 18:14:31 .... ralph & dbooth & myself have done some work, but we need WG review before we can take a WG position 18:14:47 q+ 18:14:53 i can volunteer 18:14:57 aliman: would love to, but don't have much time before xmas 18:15:33 bwm: skimmed david? message, had immediate reaction regarding 'that name doesn't exist' re 404 ... 18:15:47 s/david?/DavidWood/ 18:15:47 dwood: we softened this statement to 'don't know anything about it 18:16:06 zakim, unmute me 18:16:06 Jacco_van_Ossenbruggen should no longer be muted 18:16:10 bwm: will do what I can to comment 18:16:29 s/don't know/I won't tell you/ 18:16:30 jacco: i'll comment, am using t-d-b mechanism in a project 18:16:46 guus: if both jacco and bwm are willing to have a look? 18:16:49 bwm: ok 18:17:04 dbooth: specifically both dwood's message and dbooth's message 18:17:33 My message to review: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Dec/0056.html 18:17:52 ACTION: bwm and jacco to review dbooth and dwood message re httpRange-14 18:17:54 zakim, mute me 18:17:54 Jacco_van_Ossenbruggen should now be muted 18:18:01 David Wood's message to review: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Dec/0055.htmlhttp://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Dec/0055.html 18:18:15 David Wood's message to review: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Dec/0055.html 18:18:21 2.2 DAWG 18:18:22 ACTION: Brian to review SPARQL Last Call document 18:18:24 [recorded in 18:18:25 [65]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/19-swbp-minutes.html#action04] 18:18:35 s|David Wood's message to review: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Dec/0055.htmlhttp://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Dec/0055.html|| 18:18:38 q+ to add a little bit about httpRange-14 18:18:47 ChrisW has joined #swbp 18:18:54 bwm: DONE. sent two comments regarding this, one to dawg, one to skos 18:18:58 q+ to note my DAWG action is done 18:18:58 action is DONE 18:19:09 ACTION Jeremy to provide a phrasing about XSDT. 18:19:22 +[IBM] 18:19:28 zakim, [ibm] is temporarily me 18:19:28 +ChrisW; got it 18:19:31 zakim, mute me 18:19:31 David_Wood should now be muted 18:19:59 jeremy: action is DONE, sent message to dawg a week ago 18:20:45 guus: no pending actions for this liason activity (dawg) 18:21:07 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005OctDec/0303.html Question concerning typed literals in SPARQL [Jeremy 2005-11-30] 18:21:32 bwm: suggesting comments about DESCRIBE to dawg ... it would be nice if someone would say: yes we agree or not ... 18:21:40 elisa, please mute 18:21:46 urls for bwm's comments on dawg http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Dec/0003.html http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Dec/0004.html 18:22:45 bwm: dawg don't have consensus on whether DESCRIBE should be part of sparql ... 18:23:07 but think it would be useful for e.g. WN ... as standalone thing as well as part of sparql. 18:23:11 zakim, unmute me 18:23:11 Jacco_van_Ossenbruggen should no longer be muted 18:23:15 guus: useful for other vocabs 18:23:40 guus: jacco you find this useful? 18:23:55 jacco: havne't folllowed this. will think about it. 18:24:29 zakim, mute me 18:24:29 Jacco_van_Ossenbruggen should now be muted 18:24:29 Brian's message says, "However it strikes me that the direct relationship and the closure are 18:24:32 different relationships and it might be best practice, perhaps 18:24:35 generally, perhaps under certain circumstances, to define both." Although implementations have treated those two relationships as different to date, I am not sure that needs to happen. The more I think about it, the more I tend to think that it is a very arbitrary distinction that is an artifact of the data modeling. 18:24:48 ACTION: guus to find out if we have strong use case for DESCRIBE 18:25:26 s/we/his and Jacco's project/ 18:25:47 jeremy: re httpRange-14 dbooth said ??? re MIME types ??? rdf/html task force ??? action to contact them ??? 18:26:15 ACTION: jeremy to contact rdf/html task force re dbooth's position on httpRange-14 18:26:25 2.3 OMG: ODM review 18:27:35 elisa: update from the OMG meeting last week, ontology sig ... everyone was happy with it, goal is tomove forward ... OWL DL and OWL Full contraints are still missing ... bijan and peter p-s have agreed to help with this ... 18:27:55 want someone else to have a look to check ... next doc jan 23rd ... 18:28:14 specific bit of the doc we need reviewing is OWL DL and Full contraints .... 18:28:28 anyone in meantime who wants to review the OWL chapter, would be 18:28:51 ... great. OWL review has had less review than RDF section. OWL metamdoel chapter. 18:29:47 What is the time line for this action? 18:30:04 garyng: i volunteer to look at OWL section of ODM 18:30:33 elisa: comments please before second week of jan ... although anything causing a change in the metamodel asap please 18:30:45 ... i have until the 23rd to publish 18:30:55 jeremy: I can manage 9 jan 18:31:15 ACTION: garyng and jeremy to review OWL chapter of ODM review by 9 jan 2006 18:31:39 2.4 Protocol and Formats WG request 18:31:50 ACTION: Guus to arrange telecon between himself, Alistair and 18:31:51 PFWG [recorded in 18:31:53 [58]http://www.w3.org/2005/10/17-swbp-minutes.html#action07] 18:31:54 CONTINUED 18:31:59 Regrets+ Jeff 18:32:02 2.5 Other 18:32:03 ACTION: DBooth and Elisa to review WSDL 2.0 RDF Mapping: 18:32:05 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Nov/0054.html 18:32:16 CONTINUED for both dbooth and elisa 18:32:25 3. TASK FORCE UPDATES 18:32:31 3.1 PORT - Porting Thesaurii to RDF and OWL (Alistair) 18:32:42 SKOS planning: 18:32:43 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Dec/0018.html 18:32:46 zakim, mute me 18:32:46 Elisa_Kendall should now be muted 18:33:31 Alistair: I suggested that there is not enough time for another SKOS Working Draft before 31 January 2006 18:34:09 ... so our goal should be to augment the issues list during that period 18:34:26 ... if this WG charter is extended we could then do a new Working Draft 18:35:03 Guus: I think it is extremely likely that there will be some W3C activity supporting SKOS work in the future 18:35:52 Alistair: I welcome any information that could be given to the SKOS community on how to help with this future chartering 18:36:12 Guus: the issues list makes a dream start for a WG 18:36:21 s/issues/issues and proposals/ 18:37:43 3.2 OEP - Ontology Engineering and Patterns (Deb/Chris) 18:37:53 ACTION: Guus to review OWL Time note [recorded in 18:37:54 [67]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/19-swbp-minutes.html#action10] 18:38:07 zakim, unmute me 18:38:07 Elisa_Kendall should no longer be muted 18:38:20 guus: should I withdraw this action, because too late? 18:38:36 chris: no, expecting to release a new draft soon, have had several comments 18:38:53 ... not expecting to do any significant work before new year 18:39:07 ACTION: Alistair to review Qualified Cardinality note 18:39:09 [recorded in 18:39:10 [64]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/19-swbp-minutes.html#action09] 18:39:21 Alistair's review http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Dec/0021.html 18:39:24 DONE 18:39:51 guus: jeremy is excused from doing the review 18:40:03 chris: we did get a review from jeremy 18:40:12 guus: enough reviews for QCR already 18:40:28 ACTION: Chris to move QCR note to W3C pace 18:40:35 CONTINUED 18:40:50 ACTION: Chris to move todo's to the changes section 18:40:53 CONTINUED 18:41:01 q+ to asked about part-whole note status 18:41:06 ACTION Alistair, Jeremy to review QCR note 18:41:08 DONE 18:41:12 q- 18:41:12 ACTION Evan to send note to Feng on discussion of semantics 18:41:23 elisa: Evan completed that? 18:41:34 ack bwm 18:41:49 chris: I have no record of that. 18:41:56 ACTION: Evan to send note to Feng on discussion of semantics 18:42:01 CONTINUED 18:42:10 ACTION: Guus to bring issue wrt URI space for ontologies 18:42:12 to the SWCG 18:42:14 CONTINUED 18:42:25 ACTION: Raphael Georgios S, Fabien, Phil to review Semantic Integration note 18:42:34 CONTINUED 18:42:49 chris: expect draft by the end of the year 18:42:57 ACTION Dan to investigate spatial relations work in SWIG 18:43:01 ACTION: Dan to investigate spatial relations work in SWIG 18:43:06 danbri? 18:43:27 dan, any progress on action wrt spatial relations? 18:43:34 CONTINUED 18:43:55 guus, no progress. 18:43:58 guus: current plans & status for oep? 18:44:06 continued; ack'd. 18:44:51 chris: i need to resign as coordinator of oep tf because i've agreed to chair rules interchange format ... elisa has agreed to take over as co-coordinator of oep ... hope work of oep will continue in rechartered WG ... have not done much since f2f 18:45:08 guus: what can we wrap up before end of charter? 18:45:34 ack me 18:45:34 RalphS, you wanted to asked about part-whole note status 18:45:35 chris: I wlill work with elisa to get n-ary note and simple parts note to Note (decision already made) 18:45:59 ... part-whole needs editorial stuff ... n-ary note needs a different example at the end 18:46:21 pat hayes is the person doing the n-ary note, if he doesn't I will .... 18:46:38 part-whole note i''ll fix it up 18:46:55 ACTION: on Chris and Alan to work with Ralph to make 18:46:56 part-whole ready for publication 18:47:00 CONTINUED 18:47:14 guus: end state of QCR note? 18:47:17 Elisa has joined #swbp 18:47:22 chris: we didn't make a decision at f2f 18:48:13 [I see only a handful of HTML validation errors in http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/OEP/SimplePartWhole/ ] 18:48:14 aliman: header from my review: I am aware of no serious issues that should prevent this document being published as a Working Draft, or as a Working Group Note. 18:48:17 zakim, mute me 18:48:17 Elisa_Kendall should now be muted 18:48:58 chris: jacco also says ok for Note 18:49:43 chris: alan has revised draft responding to jacco's comments 18:50:16 ACTION: chris to get revised draft of QCR off alan, 18:50:49 ACTION: Guus to incorporate Alistair's comments into revised draft of QCR draft, based on Alan's revision 18:51:27 hear! hear! thanks, Chris 18:51:31 Guus: thanks to Chris as coordinator, very productive task force, best of luck with rules WG 18:51:40 3.3 WordNet (Aldo) 18:52:11 Guus: last draft got extensive reviews ... mark van assem is intending to work this week on a revised version .... 18:52:16 (late) review sent in by me, reference : http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Dec/0077.html 18:52:20 zakim, unmute me 18:52:20 Jacco_van_Ossenbruggen should no longer be muted 18:52:35 ACTION: mark van assem to produce revised draft of wordnet document 18:52:58 guus: major change is to move ??? to an appendix ... 18:53:12 sorry for the echo 18:53:16 mark will add several pages to the main text describing the worndet model and how to use it 18:53:34 ... brian is this change OK? 18:53:42 bwm: going in the right direction 18:53:53 3.4 XSCH - XML Schema Datatypes (Jeremy) 18:53:54 zakim, unmute me 18:53:54 Jacco_van_Ossenbruggen should no longer be muted 18:53:54 ACTION: Jacco to ask Jeff to clarify his proposal for data 18:53:56 types (float, decimal, etc.) 18:54:17 -bwm 18:54:19 jacco: i felt jeremey and jeff don't agree on the solution, didn't feel ok with stepping into the discussion 18:54:40 zakim, mute me 18:54:40 Jacco_van_Ossenbruggen should now be muted 18:54:42 jeremy: technically me and jeff do not agree 18:55:03 ... we have unresolved issues ... but not sure where the differences are .... 18:55:19 guus: waste if this prevents us publishing 18:55:21 zakim, unmute me 18:55:21 Jacco_van_Ossenbruggen should no longer be muted 18:55:33 jeremy: i should talk with jeff 18:55:39 Jacco's action is DONE 18:55:59 ACTION: jeremy to contact jeff re resolving the XSD issues 18:56:03 zakim, mute me 18:56:03 Jacco_van_Ossenbruggen should now be muted 18:56:16 jacco: jeremy's last proposal seemed like a reasonable soultion 18:56:31 dbooth: which proposal is most recent? 18:57:00 jeremy: we have dropped one of the three options 18:57:15 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Dec/0020.html Re: [XSCH/ALL] straw poll options [Jeremy 2005-12-07] 18:57:26 ... I favour the derived datatypes solution ... jeff is favouring the eq soultion with xxx theory ... 18:57:37 but I don't see how jeff's solution is actually different ... 18:58:15 3.5 VM - Vocabulary Management (TomB) 18:58:21 'HTTP Cookbook' editor's draft 18:58:23 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Nov/0117.html 18:58:32 ACTION: dbooth and andreas harth to review 'HTTP cookbook' 18:58:37 dbooth CONTINUED 18:59:22 ralph: the VMTF was hoping to get a preliminary review, to get a preliminary general: 'looks good' ... 18:59:37 dbooth: will try to do asap 19:00:04 ACTION: TomBaker to add something on where we see the 19:00:05 Vocabulary Management work going in the future. 19:00:28 aliman: I know that tom and andreas are in contact, andreas has sent tom some comments re the cookbook, awaiting public comments ... 19:00:40 CONTINUED 19:01:00 Action on aharth to review cookbook is CONTINUED 19:01:31 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Dec/0043.html [VM] 2005-12-06 Telecon report [TomB 2005-12-09] 19:02:29 guus: given the revised VMTF description we can consider action on tom & andreas DONE 19:02:37 3.6 HTML - Embedding RDF in HTML (Ben) 19:02:42 ACTION: Jeremy write a formal description of the CURI 19:02:44 proposal for WG consideration [recorded in 19:02:45 DONE: 19:02:47 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Nov/0184.html 19:02:50 ACTION: DanBri to ask TF for sign-off on putting the draft 19:02:51 xhtml vocab to the WG for review. [recorded in 19:02:53 [66]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/05-swbp-minutes.html#action09] 19:03:02 CONTINUED 19:03:09 ACTION: Ben produce schedule for getting RDF/A editor's 19:03:10 drafts docs ready for WG review [recorded in 19:03:12 http://www.w3.org/2005/11/04-swbp-minutes.html#action04] 19:03:18 CONTINUED 19:03:25 ACTION: ben to contact alistair on use of frag id's 19:03:27 [recorded in 19:03:28 http://www.w3.org/2005/11/04-swbp-minutes.html#action02] 19:03:36 CONTINUED 19:03:56 guus: conerned about progress, hope to get something out by jan 19:04:19 ralph: ben is working on three docs: rdf/a syntax doc, compact URI spec, RDF/A primer ... 19:04:52 TF is now hoping that the HTML WG will take control of RDF/A syntax and compact URI docs and incorporate into XHTML2.0 spec ... 19:05:13 the RDF/A primer is the only one still with SWBP-WG responsibility ... 19:05:46 TF hopes that when this WG reviews the Primer, then we can get consensus on the RDF/A proposal as a whole ... 19:05:47 HTML is already in favour. 19:06:09 Guus: to have the primer as only publication of this WG seems perfectly reasonable 19:06:41 I said "CURIE proposal" specifically, not "RDF/A proposal" for WG consensus, but the general consensus is applicable also 19:06:50 ... wondering whether the compact URI issue .should be an integrated part of the primer note ... 19:07:04 I would rather see this as a distinct section that could be plugged out ... 19:07:54 jeremy: informally you've used qnames as abbreviations for URIs, there are problems with some qnames, e.g. iptc URIs ... 19:08:05 q+ to note that QNames work just fine for RDF Properties and Classes, but not for arbitrary resources 19:08:16 compact URI proposal is attempting to retain convenience of qnames, but be more general .... 19:08:38 q+ to cite b-node requirement 19:10:26 problem is: when we use qnames outside of an XML document, does it make sense to retain the restrictions on qname sytnax that come from XML? 19:11:12 ralph: syntactic constraints on qnames are ok for RDF/XML ... i.e. for classes and properties ... because there were no classes and properties before that ... so it was acceptible ... 19:11:14 q+ to mention datatypes if ralph doesn't 19:11:41 but there are other applications that want an abbreviation for arbitrary resources, then the syntactic constraints on qnames don't work. 19:12:18 ... architectural question is: is it correct to use xmlns declarations for arbtirary resources, when what was intended was simply a string prefixing mechanism as in SPARQL .... 19:13:24 . Re guus' comment on making CURI separable ... we decided a while ago that b-nodes in an html document are a requirement ... then we noticed CURI idea gave us a way to solve the b-node requirement ... so there is a piece of functionality that we don't have a solution for without CURI ... 19:13:40 ack me 19:13:40 RalphS, you wanted to note that QNames work just fine for RDF Properties and Classes, but not for arbitrary resources and to cite b-node requirement 19:13:41 there were alternative ideas for b-nodes, but didn't feel as clean as b-node 19:14:03 guus: still should be separate section that can be skipped by people who just want basic intro to rdf/a 19:14:21 ralph: we'll take that on board 19:14:57 jeremy: in the datatypes note, we suggest that the XML schema component is a reasonable ??? URI ... and these cannot be abbreviated as qnames ... 19:15:12 s/???/datatype/ 19:15:26 so a user-defined datatype can be referred to using a CURI because of less restrictions ... 19:16:07 guus: at the moment, we'll wait for rdf/a primer, assume that plan is to get WG approval by end of jan ... means we need something by next telecon 19:16:32 Jeremy: the XSCD URIs for user defined datatypes cannot be abbreviated with qnames, because they end in a ) 19:16:56 Jeremy: in XHTML2 the datatype attribute takes a compact URI value 19:17:18 Jeremy: if this were a qname, then arbitrary user defined datatypes could not be used in XHTML2 19:17:24 -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/HTML/2005-rdfa-primer RDF/A Primer 1.0 19:17:36 guus: reviewers for rdf/a primer , assuming available by 9 jan, have a week to review it ... 19:17:40 Jeremy: if this were a URI then no compact mechanism would be provided for datatypes, discouraging their use 19:17:42 garyng volunteers 19:18:43 ACTION: GaryNG and Dbooth to review RDF/A primer by 16 Jan 19:19:17 3.7 ADTF - Applications and Demos (Libby) 19:19:47 3.8 RDFTM - RDF/Topic Maps Interoperability (Steve) 19:20:02 erratum: we already decided to publish the survey as WG Note 19:20:56 RALPH: are they planning any other editorial changes? 19:21:17 3.9 Tutorial Page 19:21:21 ACTION: Ralph check with Valentina on whether there are editorial changes to rdftm-survey, then start WG Note publication process if none 19:21:26 q+ 19:21:30 q- 19:21:35 ACTION Fabien send the mailing list the resources of 19:21:37 education materials from EU projects. 19:21:41 resolved 19:21:47 DONE 19:21:47 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Nov/0147.html 19:21:58 and acknowledged here : http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Nov/0156.html 19:22:12 ACTION* Benjamin to send an email to the mailing list 19:22:13 about positive and negative feedback. 19:22:17 DONE 19:22:17 (my action ref -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Nov/0092.html [RDFTM, All] Note proposal - rdftm survey) 19:22:24 resolved here : http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Nov/0157.html however 19:22:41 no answers yet 19:22:57 ACTION: Ralph cite relevant CG meeting records 19:22:59 regarding SemWeb Education & Outreach discussions 19:23:00 [recorded in 19:23:01 you can put an action up for me to provide an interactive web page 19:23:02 http://www.w3.org/2005/11/05-swbp-minutes.html#action04] 19:23:03 CONTINUED 19:23:21 in order to help people score the resources on Tutorial page 19:23:36 but need people to check the pages ! 19:23:53 zakim, unmute me 19:23:53 Elisa_Kendall should no longer be muted 19:23:54 ACTION: benjamin to provide ineractive web page for Tutorials 19:24:01 3.10 SE - Software Engineering 19:24:53 Steps to move Primer to Note: 19:24:55 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Nov/0173.html 19:24:56 ACTION: guus to ping SE TF re making the primer a Note, before 9 jan telcon 19:25:03 zakim, unmute me 19:25:03 Jacco_van_Ossenbruggen should no longer be muted 19:25:14 3.11 MM - Multimedia Annotation 19:25:16 Status update by Jacco: 19:25:17 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Dec/0048.html 19:25:36 ACTION: Libby to review Image annotation editor's draft 19:25:37 [recorded in 19:25:39 [61]http://www.w3.org/2005/10/17-swbp-minutes.html#action13] 19:25:49 jacco: I'm not expceting review from libby any more 19:26:00 CONTINUED 19:26:17 guus: this means we only have one reviewer, need another? 19:26:53 jacco: new reviewer should do review of draft that includes mike's comments 19:27:00 GaryNg has joined #swbp 19:27:13 mike: no major problems with draft 19:27:53 guus: we have no volunteer ... 19:28:13 Elisa has joined #swbp 19:28:26 guus: willing to do it, but not before xmas 19:28:48 guus: kick me out of the TF and I will review it 19:28:49 zakim, unmute me 19:28:49 Jacco_van_Ossenbruggen was not muted, jacco 19:28:53 zakim, mute me 19:28:53 Jacco_van_Ossenbruggen should now be muted 19:28:59 ACTION: MN editors to work with Ralph on publication 19:29:02 CONTINUED 19:29:30 Giorgo: what about the patent issue? 19:29:51 Ralph: i don't believe there's a question ... jane hunter's status is resolved ... 19:29:57 guus: patent issue is not a problem 19:30:12 ... can we have revised version for decision at next meeting 19:30:33 4. AOB 19:30:38 guus: OWL 1.1? 19:30:39 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jena-dev/message/19868 19:30:57 -DBooth 19:31:09 jeremy: received message re 'OWL 1.1' ... term used at OWL workshop after ISWC ... check that this isn't a W3C thing? 19:31:41 guus: we have talked at our f2f about some group that looks at revisitng RDF OWL core, currently no plans 19:32:00 gary: I was at OWLED, their intention is to go via member submission process re OWL 1.1 19:32:32 from aliman ... see http://lists.mindswap.org/pipermail/owl/ for discussions re OWL 1.1 19:33:22 ralph: direct answer to jeremy's question is: there is no formal W3C activity planned here 19:33:45 guus: thanks all esp aliman_scribe :) 19:33:52 -Mike_Uschold 19:33:54 we are adjourned. 19:33:56 -Jacco_van_Ossenbruggen 19:33:58 -Elisa_Kendall 19:34:00 -ChrisW 19:34:00 -Gary 19:34:01 cheers all 19:34:02 -Jeremy 19:34:05 -aliman_scribe 19:34:09 -Guus_Schreiber 19:34:10 -David_Wood 19:34:12 -Giorgos_Stamou 19:34:14 -Deb_McGuinness 19:34:15 -Ralph 19:34:16 SW_BPD()1:00PM has ended 19:34:17 Attendees were Giorgos_Stamou, Guus_Schreiber, Elisa_Kendall, Jacco_van_Ossenbruggen, Ralph, David_Wood, DBooth, Alistair_Miles, bwm, Jeremy, +1.760.476.aaaa, Deb_McGuinness, Gary, 19:34:20 ... Mike_Uschold, aliman_scribe, ChrisW 19:34:49 RRSAgent please draft minutes 19:35:44 ralph, what's the command to draft minutes? 19:36:41 rrsagent, please draft minutes 19:36:41 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/12/12-swbp-minutes.html RalphS 19:36:47 rrsagent, please make this record public 19:37:07 thanks for scribing, Alistair 19:37:32 no worries :) 19:38:03 ChrisW has left #swbp 19:38:19 rrsagent, bye 19:38:19 I see 35 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/12-swbp-actions.rdf : 19:38:19 ACTION: Elisa Kendall to review DWood message on [1] 19:38:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/12-swbp-irc#T18-11-22 19:38:19 ACTION: bwm and jacco to review dbooth and dwood message re httpRange-14 [2] 19:38:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/12-swbp-irc#T18-17-52 19:38:19 ACTION: Brian to review SPARQL Last Call document [3] 19:38:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/12-swbp-irc#T18-18-22 19:38:19 ACTION: guus to find out if we have strong use case for DESCRIBE [4] 19:38:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/12-swbp-irc#T18-24-48 19:38:19 ACTION: jeremy to contact rdf/html task force re dbooth's position on httpRange-14 [5] 19:38:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/12-swbp-irc#T18-26-15 19:38:19 ACTION: garyng and jeremy to review OWL chapter of ODM review by 9 jan 2006 [6] 19:38:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/12-swbp-irc#T18-31-15 19:38:19 ACTION: Guus to arrange telecon between himself, Alistair and [7] 19:38:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/12-swbp-irc#T18-31-50 19:38:19 ACTION: DBooth and Elisa to review WSDL 2.0 RDF Mapping: [8] 19:38:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/12-swbp-irc#T18-32-03 19:38:19 ACTION: Guus to review OWL Time note [recorded in [9] 19:38:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/12-swbp-irc#T18-37-53 19:38:19 ACTION: Alistair to review Qualified Cardinality note [10] 19:38:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/12-swbp-irc#T18-39-07 19:38:19 ACTION: Chris to move QCR note to W3C pace [11] 19:38:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/12-swbp-irc#T18-40-28 19:38:19 ACTION: Chris to move todo's to the changes section [12] 19:38:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/12-swbp-irc#T18-40-50 19:38:19 ACTION: Evan to send note to Feng on discussion of semantics [13] 19:38:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/12-swbp-irc#T18-41-56 19:38:19 ACTION: Guus to bring issue wrt URI space for ontologies [14] 19:38:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/12-swbp-irc#T18-42-10 19:38:19 ACTION: Raphael Georgios S, Fabien, Phil to review Semantic Integration note [15] 19:38:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/12-swbp-irc#T18-42-25 19:38:19 ACTION: Dan to investigate spatial relations work in SWIG [16] 19:38:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/12-swbp-irc#T18-43-01 19:38:19 ACTION: on Chris and Alan to work with Ralph to make [17] 19:38:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/12-swbp-irc#T18-46-55 19:38:19 ACTION: chris to get revised draft of QCR off alan, [18] 19:38:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/12-swbp-irc#T18-50-16 19:38:19 ACTION: Guus to incorporate Alistair's comments into revised draft of QCR draft, based on Alan's revision [19] 19:38:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/12-swbp-irc#T18-50-49 19:38:19 ACTION: mark van assem to produce revised draft of wordnet document [20] 19:38:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/12-swbp-irc#T18-52-35 19:38:19 ACTION: Jacco to ask Jeff to clarify his proposal for data [21] 19:38:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/12-swbp-irc#T18-53-54-2 19:38:19 ACTION: jeremy to contact jeff re resolving the XSD issues [22] 19:38:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/12-swbp-irc#T18-55-59 19:38:19 ACTION: dbooth and andreas harth to review 'HTTP cookbook' [23] 19:38:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/12-swbp-irc#T18-58-32 19:38:19 ACTION: TomBaker to add something on where we see the [24] 19:38:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/12-swbp-irc#T19-00-04 19:38:19 ACTION: Jeremy write a formal description of the CURI [25] 19:38:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/12-swbp-irc#T19-02-42 19:38:19 ACTION: DanBri to ask TF for sign-off on putting the draft [26] 19:38:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/12-swbp-irc#T19-02-50 19:38:19 ACTION: Ben produce schedule for getting RDF/A editor's [27] 19:38:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/12-swbp-irc#T19-03-09 19:38:19 ACTION: ben to contact alistair on use of frag id's [28] 19:38:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/12-swbp-irc#T19-03-25 19:38:19 ACTION: GaryNG and Dbooth to review RDF/A primer by 16 Jan [29] 19:38:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/12-swbp-irc#T19-18-43 19:38:19 ACTION: Ralph check with Valentina on whether there are editorial changes to rdftm-survey, then start WG Note publication process if none [30] 19:38:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/12-swbp-irc#T19-21-21 19:38:19 ACTION: Ralph cite relevant CG meeting records [31] 19:38:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/12-swbp-irc#T19-22-57 19:38:19 ACTION: benjamin to provide ineractive web page for Tutorials [32] 19:38:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/12-swbp-irc#T19-23-54 19:38:19 ACTION: guus to ping SE TF re making the primer a Note, before 9 jan telcon [33] 19:38:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/12-swbp-irc#T19-24-56 19:38:19 ACTION: Libby to review Image annotation editor's draft [34] 19:38:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/12-swbp-irc#T19-25-36 19:38:19 ACTION: MN editors to work with Ralph on publication [35] 19:38:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/12-swbp-irc#T19-28-59 19:40:18 jeremy has left #swbp