IRC log of er on 2005-12-07

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:57:31 [RRSAgent]
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14:57:31 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/12/07-er-irc
14:57:31 [ChrisR]
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14:57:39 [Zakim]
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14:57:44 [shadi]
zakim, this will be ert
14:57:44 [Zakim]
ok, shadi; I see WAI_ERTWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
14:58:09 [shadi]
meeting: ERT WG
14:58:14 [shadi]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2005Dec/0008.html
14:58:16 [Zakim]
WAI_ERTWG()10:00AM has now started
14:58:24 [Zakim]
+johannes
14:58:48 [shadi]
agenda+ Accessibility Test Suites
14:58:50 [JohannesK]
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14:59:01 [shadi]
agenda+ Updated EARL 1.0 Schema
14:59:46 [Zakim]
+Shadi
15:00:17 [CarlosI]
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15:00:24 [Zakim]
+??P17
15:00:44 [Zakim]
+Sandor_Herramhof
15:01:01 [shadi]
zakim, p17 is really Christophe
15:01:01 [Zakim]
sorry, shadi, I do not recognize a party named 'p17'
15:01:05 [shadi]
zakim, ??p17 is really Christophe
15:01:05 [Zakim]
+Christophe; got it
15:01:42 [Zakim]
+??P19
15:01:53 [shadi]
zakim, ??p19 is really Chris
15:01:53 [Zakim]
+Chris; got it
15:02:38 [Christophe]
zakim, mute me
15:02:38 [Zakim]
Christophe should now be muted
15:03:46 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:04:05 [Zakim]
+Carlos_Iglesias
15:04:07 [shadi]
zakim, ipcaller is really Nick
15:04:07 [Zakim]
+Nick; got it
15:04:22 [niq]
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15:04:32 [ChrisR]
Notes on test suite: http://checker.atrc.utoronto.ca/docs/TestSuiteForHTML.txt
15:04:54 [JohannesK]
scribe: jk
15:05:03 [ChrisR]
current test suite for WCAG: http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/tests/
15:05:08 [JohannesK]
zakim, take up agendum 1
15:05:08 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Accessibility Test Suites" taken up [from shadi]
15:05:52 [JohannesK]
CR: likes other people to participate in the test suite
15:06:13 [JohannesK]
CR: not specific to WCAG 2.0
15:06:29 [niq]
I'm getting intermittent sound. Anyone else?
15:06:43 [shadi]
no, sounds good...
15:07:28 [JohannesK]
CR: some tests are common to more guidelines/laws
15:08:05 [JohannesK]
CR: idea is: does page conform to guidelines?
15:08:43 [JohannesK]
CR: designed for average HTML author, not necessarlity expert
15:09:35 [JohannesK]
CR: it's only for HTML content (no flash etc.)
15:10:35 [JohannesK]
CR: some are automatic, some require human judgement
15:12:00 [JohannesK]
CR: there are no tests yet for color contrast and flicker
15:12:19 [JohannesK]
CR: will come when algorithms are stable
15:12:44 [JohannesK]
CR: tests are small/atomic
15:14:43 [JohannesK]
CR: remove ambiguities (pass or fail?)
15:15:44 [JohannesK]
CR: finer in detail than WCAG 1.0 HTML techniques
15:16:08 [JohannesK]
CR: but tests map to certain technique
15:20:36 [JohannesK]
SAZ: what is ERT WG's role in this
15:20:57 [JohannesK]
CR: have more people review tests and agree on them
15:21:12 [niq]
q+ to ask who stands behind the testsuite
15:22:09 [JohannesK]
SAZ: ERT WG's job is not interpreting WCAG
15:22:59 [JohannesK]
SAZ: harmonizing ways to describe test cases
15:23:36 [JohannesK]
SAZ: feedback on whether tests are ambiguous
15:24:53 [JohannesK]
CR: important to harmonize checks to produce same results
15:25:26 [shadi]
ack nick
15:25:31 [shadi]
ack niq
15:25:31 [Zakim]
niq, you wanted to ask who stands behind the testsuite
15:25:39 [JohannesK]
CR: ERT WG should say, we can / cannot implement these tests
15:26:06 [JohannesK]
NK: who develops the test suite (CR and ???)
15:27:20 [JohannesK]
SAZ: what about copyright? documents are on W3C site, but copyright is on University of Toronto
15:27:51 [ChrisR]
test suite at WAI: http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/tests/
15:27:55 [shadi]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/tests/
15:28:24 [JohannesK]
CR: documents have W3C license
15:29:03 [JohannesK]
CR: in order to change the copyright, lawyer have to be involved -> money
15:30:04 [niq]
"W3C .... document use and software licensing rules apply."
15:30:46 [JohannesK]
CR: part of techniques task force
15:31:32 [JohannesK]
CR: staw poll about tests and success criteria
15:31:59 [ChrisR]
test process: http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/tests/ctprocess.html
15:33:53 [JohannesK]
CR: some have XQuery expression to make automated tests
15:34:25 [ChrisR]
complete test suite: http://checker.atrc.utoronto.ca/servlet/ShowCheck
15:34:47 [ChrisR]
example: http://checker.atrc.utoronto.ca/servlet/ShowCheck?check=1&lang=eng
15:34:54 [JohannesK]
CR: are XQuery expressions approved by WCAG WG
15:35:01 [JohannesK]
s/CR/SAZ/
15:35:05 [JohannesK]
CR: no
15:36:39 [ChrisR]
Can also be translated. Example Italian: http://checker.atrc.utoronto.ca/servlet/ShowCheck?check=1&lang=ita
15:36:46 [JohannesK]
SAZ: what happens if someone has another expression to test?
15:37:07 [Christophe]
zakim, unmute me
15:37:07 [Zakim]
Christophe should no longer be muted
15:39:19 [JohannesK]
CR: WCAG WG have to agree which tests apply to WCAG
15:39:52 [ChrisR]
tests can be mapped to other guidelines: http://checker.atrc.utoronto.ca/servlet/ChangeGuideline?lang=eng
15:40:29 [JohannesK]
CS: there's also BenToWeb test suite
15:40:59 [JohannesK]
CS: tests for each success criterion
15:41:04 [JohannesK]
CR: public
15:41:06 [JohannesK]
?
15:41:09 [JohannesK]
CS: not yet
15:41:21 [JohannesK]
SAZ: submit to WCAG WG?
15:41:24 [JohannesK]
CS: yes
15:41:46 [niq]
ChrisR: http://checker.atrc.utoronto.ca/servlet/ChangeGuideline?lang=eng doesn't work for me; just always sends me to Guideline 197 whatever I select
15:42:05 [niq]
s/Guideline/Accessibility Test/
15:42:45 [JohannesK]
SAZ: WCAG WG's task is development of test suite
15:43:02 [JohannesK]
SAZ: should we develop or should we review?
15:43:35 [JohannesK]
CR: help in development, but WCAG WG should decide about accepting tests
15:45:48 [niq]
I think we're implementing the software.
15:46:27 [niq]
If group members want to develop tests e.g. with wcag, that falls outside ERT IMO
15:47:57 [JohannesK]
JK: we as tool developers can create xpath or xquery expressions based on our interpretation of success criteria / guidelines
15:49:33 [JohannesK]
SAZ: overlap between WCAG and ERT WGs
15:50:24 [JohannesK]
SAZ: difficult to produce test suite for a still changing specification
15:51:54 [JohannesK]
CR: create tests based on real world testing, not on specifications
15:53:08 [JohannesK]
JK: requrement to have tests for each success criteria
15:54:56 [JohannesK]
SAZ: some BenToWeb people may be interested in test suite work
15:55:15 [JohannesK]
SAZ: there must be a process for creating tests
15:55:51 [JohannesK]
SAZ: any more interested people? NK, SH, CI?
15:56:37 [JohannesK]
SAZ: test suite development task force?
15:56:41 [JohannesK]
NK: yes
15:57:20 [JohannesK]
CI: disagree with some already approved tests
15:57:34 [CarlosI]
partially
15:58:10 [Christophe]
q+
15:58:13 [niq]
but that doesn't invalidate the exercise
15:58:48 [JohannesK]
SAZ: will check with Wendy how to procede
15:59:20 [JohannesK]
SAZ: may result in a joint task force
15:59:51 [JohannesK]
CR: make sure this is not just for WAI
16:00:58 [JohannesK]
SAZ: we should not promote development of different accessibility guidelines
16:01:21 [ChrisR]
I agree. Let's try to bring them all together.
16:02:10 [JohannesK]
CS: see 'Understanding WCAG 2.0' document
16:02:18 [Christophe]
q-
16:03:02 [niq]
:-)
16:03:12 [JohannesK]
CR: send all accessibility test suites to me
16:03:36 [Zakim]
-Nick
16:03:36 [JohannesK]
SAZ: no meeting next week, next meeting December 21st
16:03:39 [Zakim]
-Chris
16:03:40 [ChrisR]
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16:03:41 [Zakim]
-Christophe
16:03:41 [Zakim]
-Shadi
16:03:43 [Zakim]
-Sandor_Herramhof
16:03:46 [Zakim]
-johannes
16:03:55 [Zakim]
-Carlos_Iglesias
16:03:56 [Zakim]
WAI_ERTWG()10:00AM has ended
16:03:57 [Zakim]
Attendees were johannes, Shadi, Sandor_Herramhof, Christophe, Chris, Carlos_Iglesias, Nick
16:04:23 [Christophe]
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18:06:31 [Zakim]
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18:25:29 [shadi]
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19:02:55 [shadi]
rrsagent, make logs world
19:03:09 [shadi]
rrsagent, make minutes
19:03:09 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/12/07-er-minutes.html shadi
19:03:30 [shadi]
rrsagent, bye
19:03:30 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items