IRC log of eo on 2005-11-18

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:27:49 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #eo
13:27:49 [RRSAgent]
logging to
13:28:03 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #eo
13:28:14 [pasquale]
zakim, this will be eowg
13:28:14 [Zakim]
ok, pasquale, I see WAI_EOWG()8:30AM already started
13:28:22 [shawn]
zakim, who is here?
13:28:22 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ??P0, Doyle_Saylor
13:28:23 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, alan, pasquale, Andrew, shawn
13:28:25 [Zakim]
13:28:44 [pasquale]
Meeting: EOWG
13:28:57 [barry]
barry has joined #eo
13:29:17 [Zakim]
13:29:28 [pasquale]
13:29:36 [shawn]
zakim, ??P0 is Alan
13:29:36 [Zakim]
+Alan; got it
13:30:11 [Zakim]
13:30:19 [Zakim]
13:30:36 [Zakim]
13:30:39 [Zakim]
13:30:39 [Andrew]
zakim, ??p6 is Andrew
13:30:41 [Zakim]
+Andrew; got it
13:30:52 [shawn]
zakim, ??P5 is Shadi
13:30:52 [Zakim]
+Shadi; got it
13:30:57 [Zakim]
13:31:02 [barry]
zakim, ??P4 is Barry
13:31:02 [Zakim]
+Barry; got it
13:31:19 [shawn]
zakim, ??p7 is pasquale
13:31:19 [Zakim]
+pasquale; got it
13:32:51 [Andrew]
zakim, who is here?
13:32:51 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Alan, Doyle_Saylor, Sylvie_DuchateauTanguy_Lohéac (muted), Shawn, Barry, Shadi, Andrew, pasquale, Loughborough
13:32:53 [Zakim]
On IRC I see barry, Zakim, RRSAgent, alan, pasquale, Andrew, shawn
13:34:26 [Andrew]
Topic: Outreach Updates
13:34:26 [Wayne]
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13:35:05 [Andrew]
Shadi: short report from Tunis
13:36:22 [shawn]
scribe: Andrew
13:36:29 [shawn]
scribenick: andrew
13:37:34 [Harvey]
Harvey has joined #eo
13:37:39 [Wayne]
I am having a little computer trouble today, I'll join in a couple of minutes.
13:37:53 [shawn]
ack shadi
13:39:08 [Andrew]
Topic: Outreach updates
13:39:24 [Zakim]
13:39:38 [Andrew]
Shadi: short report from Tunis at WSIS
13:40:11 [Zakim]
13:40:34 [Andrew]
Barry: reported on the large scale survey across the EU that he has been involved in
13:40:35 [Wayne]
zakim, ??P10 is wayne
13:40:35 [Zakim]
+wayne; got it
13:40:58 [Andrew]
Barry: outcomes to be announced next week and the report launched
13:42:27 [Andrew]
Barry: Lead partner was RNIB; others included AbilityNet & SOCITM Insight
13:43:03 [Andrew]
Harvey: attended presentation by Maria XXX from School for the Blind
13:45:23 [Andrew]
Barry: starting point was a common set of services from each state, plus sites the state nominated
13:46:09 [Andrew]
Barry: auto scan of all sites (500) plus manual evaluation on subset (30 sites)
13:46:47 [Andrew]
Barry: manual eval confirmed auto test plus issues auto testing can't look at
13:47:45 [Andrew]
Barry: instead of just WCAG "A", broke it into four categories
13:47:55 [Wayne]
zakim, mute me
13:47:55 [Zakim]
wayne should now be muted
13:48:28 [Andrew]
Barry: methodologies described in forthcoming report
13:49:10 [Andrew]
Barry: tried to pick out particularly good practice, and named state and org
13:49:29 [Andrew]
Barry: long list of recommendations also in the report
13:51:16 [Andrew]
Barry: most states ahve WCAG "AA" as their objective, even if not many have achieved it
13:51:59 [Wayne]
zakim, unmute me
13:51:59 [Zakim]
wayne should no longer be muted
13:54:10 [Wayne]
zakim, mute me
13:54:10 [Zakim]
wayne should now be muted
13:54:48 [Andrew]
Topic: Before/After Demo (BAD)
13:55:14 [Andrew]
See: requirements -
13:56:05 [Andrew]
13:56:41 [Andrew]
Shadi: 4 pages that look equivalent but are inaccessible and accessible repsectively
13:57:04 [Andrew]
Shadi: plus a model evaluation
13:58:00 [Wayne]
wayne, unmute me
13:58:00 [Andrew]
Shadi: List of Web accessibility barriers selected for demonstration -
13:59:03 [Andrew]
Shadi: not comprehensive list of accessibility barries, but representative
13:59:16 [shawn]
shadi: can add accessibility barriers later
13:59:35 [Andrew]
Shadi: each of the four pages demonstrates different bariers
14:01:07 [Andrew]
Shadi: before (inaccessible) pages -
14:01:49 [Andrew]
Shadi: not complete, but developing rapidly
14:02:15 [Andrew]
Shadi: some pages not only break with assistive technology, but also with some browsers
14:02:41 [Andrew]
Shadi: after (accessible) pages -
14:03:00 [Andrew]
Shadi: the after pages are not as developed as the before pages
14:03:55 [Andrew]
Shadi: any comments/feedback?
14:04:07 [Andrew]
William: it looks pretty good
14:06:27 [Andrew]
Andrew: it will be a nice collection for demo purposes
14:06:44 [Andrew]
Shawn: is the visual design final?
14:07:08 [Andrew]
Shadi: pretty much final, maybe some fine tuning
14:08:10 [Andrew]
Shadi: does the top yellow warning/notice banner work?
14:09:36 [Andrew]
Andrew: yellow stands out, but as it does not match the colour scheme it does not detract from the design
14:10:15 [Andrew]
Barry: red on yellow is a bit difficult to read but words are good
14:10:46 [Andrew]
All: agree that placement is good
14:12:41 [Andrew]
Action: issues 1) reconsider red on yellow; 2) make banner text scalable; 3) consider link to good site as well as to 'about'
14:13:14 [Wayne]
wayne, unmute me
14:13:26 [Wayne]
zakim, unmute me
14:13:26 [Zakim]
wayne should no longer be muted
14:15:23 [Andrew]
Action: issues 4) add some padding to the text
14:16:09 [Andrew]
Wayne: the before page works fine with my custom stylesheet
14:16:37 [Andrew]
Shadi: it would be good to get some feedback from Wayne so we can possibly break it a bit more
14:17:18 [Andrew]
Action: Wayne to check all 'before' pages and provide feedback to TF
14:20:53 [Andrew]
Wayne: top banner currently interferes with page for me - rest of page is good
14:21:58 [shawn]
Action: issues 5) strong bottom border line
14:21:58 [Andrew]
Barry: likes overall visual design - not as strong concerns as Wayne as can factor out the banner (once you realise it's purpose)
14:24:49 [Andrew]
Shawn: is grey boring? William - yes; Barry - no, quite common
14:26:03 [Andrew]
Action: issues 6) are some space around the borders, e.g. 'traffic' should not be against the page boundry
14:30:16 [Andrew]
Shawn: lets consider navigation for the demo and between the good/bad pages
14:31:15 [shawn]
s/boring? William - yes;/boring? Harvey - yes;
14:37:45 [Andrew]
Shawn: do we all agree that best is a tweaking of the top warning banner?
14:38:14 [Zakim]
14:38:19 [Andrew]
All: all agree that notificayion and navigation can be in the top bar on bother versions
14:38:56 [Andrew]
present + Jack
14:39:26 [Andrew]
zakim, who is here?
14:39:26 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Alan, Doyle_Saylor, Sylvie_DuchateauTanguy_Lohéac (muted), Shawn, Barry, Shadi (muted), Andrew, pasquale, Loughborough, Bingham, wayne, Jack
14:39:29 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Harvey, Wayne, barry, Zakim, RRSAgent, alan, pasquale, Andrew, shawn
14:41:28 [Andrew]
present: Alan Chuter, Doyle Saylor, Tanguy Lohéac, Shawn Lawton Henry, Andrew Arch, Barry, Shadi, Pasquale, William Loughborough, Harvey Bingham, Wayne Dick
14:41:29 [Zakim]
14:45:11 [Andrew]
Andrew: what about using the LHS nav to link to the report, and then to the repaierd (or damaged) page?
14:45:37 [Andrew]
14:46:56 [Andrew]
Shadi: please think about use cases - page by page vs site vs report etc
14:48:39 [Andrew]
Shawn: Andrew's suggestion may also alow demo of menu hierarchy
14:49:29 [Andrew]
Shawn: it should always be clear as to whether you are in the before or after site
14:49:45 [Andrew]
William: keep is simple
14:50:37 [Andrew]
Barry: disagrees with Andrew's suggestion - keep suite navigation separate from model navigation
14:51:49 [Andrew]
Barry: keep all suite navigation to the page linked from the banner at the top, might be extra links but simple and discreet
14:52:37 [Andrew]
Barry: put the good/bad indicator into the top banner, not on the page (but top banner needs to be kept concise)
14:54:14 [Andrew]
Shadi: what about using colour in the banner to help differentiate between good/bad?
14:54:50 [Andrew]
Wayne: whhy not just say BEFORE & AFTER?
14:55:00 [Andrew]
14:56:28 [shawn]
zakim, who is here?
14:56:28 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Doyle_Saylor, Sylvie_DuchateauTanguy_Lohéac (muted), Shawn, Barry, Shadi (muted), Andrew, pasquale, Loughborough, Bingham, wayne, Jack
14:56:34 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Harvey, Wayne, barry, Zakim, RRSAgent, pasquale, Andrew, shawn
15:00:25 [Zakim]
15:01:20 [Zakim]
15:01:48 [Zakim]
15:02:31 [Zakim]
15:02:32 [Andrew]
Shadi: what about information that is actually informative about accessibility?
15:04:00 [Andrew]
William: keep the pages pure - keep accessibility info out
15:04:27 [Andrew]
Most: agree with William; Andrew doesn't mind accessibility info
15:04:31 [Zakim]
15:13:04 [Andrew]
Regrets: Henk Snetselaar, Justin Thorp, Liam McGee, Roberto Castaldo
15:16:04 [shawn]
zakim, who is here?
15:16:04 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Doyle_Saylor, Sylvie_DuchateauTanguy_Lohéac (muted), Shawn, Shadi, Andrew, Loughborough, Bingham, wayne, pasquale, Barry_McMullin
15:16:06 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Harvey, Wayne, barry, Zakim, RRSAgent, pasquale, Andrew, shawn
15:16:37 [Andrew]
Shawn: discussion seems to be that the top bar should NOT be integrated more into the site, but can still demo best practice such as use of colour
15:17:23 [Andrew]
Shadi: thanks to TF members - Steve Faulkner, Liam McGee, Pasquale, Tanguy
15:18:13 [Andrew]
Action: consider links to 'intro', 'before', 'after', 'eval' in the top banner
15:18:25 [Andrew]
Regrets + Helle
15:18:57 [Andrew]
Topic: List of Web Accessibility Evaluation Tools
15:19:52 [Andrew]
Shadi: update on activities - user interface almost stable; TF collecting data
15:20:22 [Andrew]
Shadi: see -
15:25:28 [Andrew]
William: will be collecting the accessibility of the tools themselves?
15:25:50 [Andrew]
Andrew: we are trying to gather this information from the vendors/developers
15:26:07 [Andrew]
Topic: Note EOWG meeting schedule for November and December
15:26:18 [Andrew]
See -
15:26:57 [Andrew]
Shawn: may need to progress some activities via email as we are missing several Friday meetings in the next month and a half
15:30:22 [Zakim]
15:30:51 [Zakim]
15:30:53 [Zakim]
15:30:55 [Zakim]
15:30:56 [Zakim]
15:30:57 [Zakim]
15:30:58 [Zakim]
15:31:05 [Zakim]
15:31:07 [Zakim]
15:31:11 [shawn]
zakim, make logs world
15:31:11 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'make logs world', shawn
15:31:12 [Zakim]
15:31:14 [Zakim]
WAI_EOWG()8:30AM has ended
15:31:15 [Zakim]
Attendees were Doyle_Saylor, Sylvie_Duchateau\Tanguy_Lohéac, Shawn, Alan, Andrew, Shadi, Loughborough, Barry, pasquale, Bingham, wayne, Jack, Barry_McMullin
15:31:21 [shawn]
rrsagent, make logs world
15:31:33 [shawn]
andrew ***THANKS***
15:31:43 [Andrew]
thanks shawn - i was just looking it up
15:32:05 [shawn]
rrsagent, draft minutes
15:32:05 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate shawn
15:34:14 [pasquale]
bye shawn and andrew, have a good day/night
15:34:27 [Andrew]
bye pasquale
15:34:58 [shawn]
good night
16:06:50 [shawn]
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