IRC log of vmtf on 2005-11-15

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:51:04 [RRSAgent]
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13:51:04 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/11/15-vmtf-irc
13:51:13 [RalphS]
Meeting: Vocab Management TF, SWBPD WG
13:51:43 [RalphS]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Nov/0074.html
13:51:50 [Zakim]
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13:51:59 [RalphS]
zakim, this will be vmtf
13:51:59 [Zakim]
ok, RalphS; I see SW_BPD(VMTF)9:00AM scheduled to start in 9 minutes
13:54:23 [tbaker]
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13:54:39 [tbaker]
hi Ralph!
13:55:52 [RalphS]
Chair: Tom
13:56:00 [RalphS]
rrsagent, please make this record public
13:57:19 [RalphS]
Previous: 2005-10-28 http://www.w3.org/2005/10/28-vmtf-minutes.html
13:58:06 [RalphS]
oh shoot -- I forgot to followup with W3C systems folk to confirm they read my invitation to today's telecon
13:58:11 [RalphS]
I have no idea who will come
13:58:17 [RalphS]
Regrets: DanBri
13:59:01 [Zakim]
SW_BPD(VMTF)9:00AM has now started
13:59:09 [Zakim]
+Tom_Baker
13:59:20 [Zakim]
+Ralph
14:00:35 [Zakim]
+??P2
14:01:03 [RalphS]
zakim, ??p2 is Alistair
14:01:03 [Zakim]
+Alistair; got it
14:02:32 [libby]
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14:05:09 [RalphS]
Ralph: apologies; I failed to followup with Matthieu, Vivien, or Ted so I don't have any idea whether or not they expect to come
14:05:38 [RalphS]
Tom: can we reschedule for 22 Nov or 6 Dec?
14:05:47 [RalphS]
Alistair, Ralph: we're both available then
14:06:27 [Zakim]
+Libby_Miller
14:07:19 [RalphS]
ACTION: Ralph confirm either 22 Nov or 6 Dec with Matthieu and Ted or propose an alternative
14:10:26 [danbri]
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14:11:04 [aliman]
q+ to talk about planning
14:11:09 [RalphS]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Nov/0078.html "Provenance information" [Tom 2005-11-15]
14:11:25 [Zakim]
aliman, you wanted to talk about planning
14:11:53 [RalphS]
Regrets+ Bernard
14:12:25 [tbaker]
alistair: should we consider goals in lifetime of TF (end January)
14:12:43 [tbaker]
maybe unrealistic to get alignment btw FOAF/SKOS/DC by then
14:13:12 [RalphS]
Alistair: consider using my draft on configuring Apache as the core of a Working Draft
14:13:37 [tbaker]
rather: use http-examples as basis of note?
14:13:52 [tbaker]
if we agree content negotiation is the basis, DC doesn't do that yet
14:14:01 [RalphS]
Alistair: it would be good for Dublin Core to adopt this practice before we publish
14:14:45 [danbri]
[i have started to fiddle with FOAF's apache config,...]
14:14:49 [tbaker]
Ralph: I think we should have tested by the time we publish,
14:15:02 [danbri]
[also noted Peter Patel-Schneider's comments on Al's text, today]
14:15:03 [tbaker]
but not necessarily require that all cases follow the guidelines
14:15:13 [tbaker]
DC could be most difficult case
14:15:30 [tbaker]
Ralph: not need to wait for DCMI
14:15:55 [tbaker]
Alistair: FOAF as slash example and SKOS as hash example?
14:16:10 [tbaker]
Alistair: original intention: not publish until we all do same thing
14:16:52 [aliman]
q+ to say i have tested the configurations for dummy namespaces
14:17:00 [RalphS]
Ralph: if Dublin Core changes now and has to change again based on comments on our draft, how much will that cost us?
14:17:33 [RalphS]
Tom: if we're reasonably confident about our recipes I could investigate getting an agreement in principle from DCMI to implement
14:17:52 [RalphS]
... DCMI has an added complication with the purl.org service
14:19:15 [Zakim]
aliman, you wanted to say i have tested the configurations for dummy namespaces
14:19:36 [RalphS]
Alistair: I've tested all the configurations in the draft with dummy vocabularies
14:19:47 [RalphS]
... with my own apache configuration
14:20:10 [tbaker]
q+ to ask danbri about FOAF implementation
14:20:51 [RalphS]
... purl.org configuration will be more complicated because it apparently does not support content-based redirection
14:21:11 [RalphS]
Tom: I assume purl.org is merely proxying the request
14:21:54 [RalphS]
Alistair: the question is whether the client continues the content negotiaton after the redirect
14:22:37 [RalphS]
[I rephrased Tom's comment to 'proxy' which isn't exactly what he said and is misleading]
14:23:12 [danbri]
[content-type-based redirs, you mean?]
14:23:33 [RalphS]
Tom: I'm worried about whether DCMI would ever be able to properly implement our Note without changes to purl.org
14:23:52 [RalphS]
Alistair: I believe it can be handled with one more redirect
14:25:57 [RalphS]
... every time current clients repeat the request they repeat the content negotiation
14:26:10 [RalphS]
Ralph: have you tested this?
14:26:19 [RalphS]
Alistair: yes, to some degree
14:26:40 [tbaker]
Ralph: if it is obvious that this is correct behavior...
14:26:49 [RalphS]
Alistair: more accurate to say that clients repeat the Accept: headers
14:26:52 [tbaker]
Alistair: they repeatedly deliver the Accept headers
14:27:08 [tbaker]
Alistair: each client should keep delivering its accept headers
14:27:15 [tbaker]
Ralph: we should make sure this is the case
14:28:30 [RalphS]
ACTION: Alistair investigate PURL use case and add to configuration options
14:28:35 [tbaker]
ACTION Alistair: add purl.org case to draft note
14:29:01 [Zakim]
-Libby_Miller
14:30:26 [RalphS]
Ralph: I'd like to test these configurations in the W3C site for due diligence but I would be satisfied with Alistair's testing for first WD
14:31:25 [tbaker]
ACTION Ralph check configurations on W3C site
14:31:40 [RalphS]
ACTION: Ralph check configurations on W3C site
14:31:43 [tbaker]
ACTION Alistair: move draft into VM space
14:31:59 [RalphS]
action 4 = Alistair: move draft into VM space as an Editor's Draft
14:32:22 [RalphS]
action 5 = Alistair: move draft into VM space as an Editor's Draft
14:32:32 [RalphS]
action 4 = Ralph check configurations on W3C site
14:36:16 [tbaker]
ACTION Tom: prepare excerpts from last telecon for inclusion in new Editor's Draft
14:36:54 [tbaker]
Alistair: let's keep as tightly scoped as possible
14:37:06 [Thanassis]
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14:38:01 [tbaker]
Ralph: a positive thing when @@TODO refs are included in first working draft,
14:38:12 [tbaker]
puts those things out there for people to react to
14:39:49 [tbaker]
Ralph: no need to artificially try to reach Note status.
14:40:03 [tbaker]
Already a contribution if we put the issues into the archive so we
14:40:10 [tbaker]
can continue in next round of charters
14:41:08 [RalphS]
Alistair: the WG F2F consensus was that OEP, SKOS, and VM were all important to continue and they had sufficient interdependencies to do them in one WG
14:41:57 [tbaker]
Alistair: versioning and change management come to fore in OWL community
14:42:01 [RalphS]
... issues of versioning and change management came up at the OWL Futures Workshop at ISWC
14:42:16 [tbaker]
strong dependencies btw continuing OWL work and VM
14:43:15 [RalphS]
-> http://isegserv.itd.rl.ac.uk/VM/http-examples/ Configuring Apache HTTP Server for RDFS/OWL Ontologies
14:43:24 [tbaker]
tom likes Minimum/Good-practice distinction
14:43:39 [RalphS]
Alistair: I categorized into minimal and "good practice" requirements
14:44:32 [tbaker]
Ralph: worries about language that says "not possible" to receive response X...
14:44:50 [RalphS]
Ralph: I pause over language like "it is not possible to"
14:45:03 [RalphS]
Alistair: reasonable to state these as goals
14:46:22 [RalphS]
Alistair: provenance is supported by using the final URI from the chain of redirects as the name of the graph
14:46:45 [RalphS]
... so different URIs represent different versions of a vocabulary
14:47:00 [tbaker]
Alistair: different URIs for different graphs - different versions
14:47:00 [RalphS]
Tom: there is an implied good practice to date-stamp URIs
14:47:41 [tbaker]
Alistair: equally reasonable to use a version number (instead of date) for URI
14:47:49 [RalphS]
... will machines be expected to recognize those dates?
14:49:02 [RalphS]
... do we want to explore the use of datestamps, perhaps as a social convention
14:49:36 [RalphS]
... or at least note explicitly that the examples are not meant to be parsed by machine but simply a social convention?
14:50:26 [tbaker]
Ralph: as we discovered with RDF, people mimic examples
14:50:52 [RalphS]
Ralph: yeah, things we show in our examples will be mimic'd -- we should be careful to document the explicit and implicit semantics of such mimicry
14:52:01 [tbaker]
Alistair: no reason you could not have .rdf at end of URI of namespace - should perhaps
14:52:04 [tbaker]
say something about this
14:53:26 [tbaker]
Ralph: refrain from commenting _too_ much on practices out there
14:56:42 [tbaker]
(draft should make clear that location of .rdf and .html files is arbitrary)
15:00:53 [RalphS]
next meeting 22 Nov 1400Z
15:01:11 [RalphS]
... then 6 Dec, 20 Dec
15:01:18 [Zakim]
-Ralph
15:01:21 [Zakim]
-Alistair
15:01:59 [tbaker]
I'm still here for the URL of the meeting notes...?
15:02:04 [Zakim]
-Tom_Baker
15:02:05 [Zakim]
SW_BPD(VMTF)9:00AM has ended
15:02:07 [Zakim]
Attendees were Tom_Baker, Ralph, Alistair, Libby_Miller
15:02:16 [RalphS]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
15:02:16 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/11/15-vmtf-minutes.html RalphS
15:02:39 [tbaker]
thank you!
15:02:41 [RalphS]
rrsagent, bye
15:02:41 [RRSAgent]
I see 6 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/15-vmtf-actions.rdf :
15:02:41 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Ralph confirm either 22 Nov or 6 Dec with Matthieu and Ted or propose an alternative [1]
15:02:41 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/15-vmtf-irc#T14-07-19
15:02:41 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Alistair investigate PURL use case and add to configuration options [2]
15:02:41 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/15-vmtf-irc#T14-28-30
15:02:41 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Alistair to add purl.org case to draft note [3]
15:02:41 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/15-vmtf-irc#T14-28-35
15:02:41 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Ralph check configurations on W3C site [4]
15:02:41 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/15-vmtf-irc#T14-31-40
15:02:41 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Alistair: move draft into VM space as an Editor's Draft [5]
15:02:41 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/15-vmtf-irc#T14-31-43
15:02:41 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Tom to prepare excerpts from last telecon for inclusion in new Editor's Draft [6]
15:02:41 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/15-vmtf-irc#T14-36-16