IRC log of dawg on 2005-11-01
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 14:40:03 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #dawg
- 14:40:03 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/11/01-dawg-irc
- 14:40:03 [Zakim]
- ok, DanC; that matches SW_DAWG()9:30AM
- 14:40:06 [AndyS]
- zakim, who is on the phone?
- 14:40:06 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see ??P1
- 14:40:12 [AndyS]
- zakim, ??P1 is AndyS
- 14:40:12 [Zakim]
- +AndyS; got it
- 14:40:13 [Zakim]
- +DanC
- 14:40:28 [AndyS]
- DanC - NP - it's just me at the moment :-/
- 14:45:27 [Zakim]
- -DanC
- 14:45:29 [Zakim]
- -AndyS
- 14:45:31 [Zakim]
- SW_DAWG()9:30AM has ended
- 14:45:32 [Zakim]
- Attendees were AndyS, DanC
- 14:51:00 [LeeF]
- LeeF has joined #dawg
- 14:51:08 [LeeF]
- g'day, everyone
- 14:57:27 [Zakim]
- SW_DAWG()9:30AM has now started
- 14:57:34 [Zakim]
- +[IBMCambridge]
- 14:57:35 [Zakim]
- -[IBMCambridge]
- 14:57:35 [Zakim]
- SW_DAWG()9:30AM has ended
- 14:57:36 [Zakim]
- Attendees were [IBMCambridge]
- 14:59:06 [DanC]
- hi Lee.
- 14:59:21 [DanC]
- DanC has changed the topic to: DAWG 1 Nov. Try again at 10:30aET / 15:30Z
- 15:00:33 [LeeF]
- howdy, sorry for the time change foul up
- 15:01:20 [DanC]
- more my fault than yours, really
- 15:02:11 [LeeF]
- Well, I read the "note the time change" part of the agenda, but was rather ET-centric in my interpretation of what it might mean
- 15:03:43 [AndyS]
- AndyS has joined #dawg
- 15:12:10 [jeen]
- jeen has joined #dawg
- 15:13:41 [jeen]
- oh crud. completely forgot the daylight savings thingy.
- 15:15:55 [DanC]
- you're not alone, jeen
- 15:21:23 [Zakim]
- SW_DAWG()9:30AM has now started
- 15:21:28 [Zakim]
- SW_DAWG()9:30AM has ended
- 15:21:29 [Zakim]
- Attendees were
- 15:24:55 [kendall]
- kendall has joined #dawg
- 15:29:14 [Zakim]
- SW_DAWG()9:30AM has now started
- 15:29:21 [Zakim]
- +??P2
- 15:29:29 [AndyS]
- zakim, ??P2 is AndyS
- 15:29:29 [Zakim]
- +AndyS; got it
- 15:29:53 [Zakim]
- +DanC
- 15:30:06 [Zakim]
- +PatH
- 15:30:20 [DanC]
- agenda + Convene, take roll, review records and agenda
- 15:30:29 [DanC]
- agenda + next meeting
- 15:30:34 [Zakim]
- +??P5
- 15:30:44 [DanC]
- agenda + Note on querying lists
- 15:30:47 [Zakim]
- +Kendall_Clark
- 15:30:58 [jeen]
- zakim, ??P5 is Jeen
- 15:30:58 [Zakim]
- +Jeen; got it
- 15:31:06 [LeeF]
- zakim, [IBMCambridge] is LeeF
- 15:31:06 [Zakim]
- sorry, LeeF, I do not recognize a party named '[IBMCambridge]'
- 15:31:07 [DanC]
- agenda + protocol testing update
- 15:31:08 [Zakim]
- +[IBMCambridge]
- 15:31:11 [patH]
- patH has joined #dawg
- 15:31:14 [LeeF]
- zakim, [IBMCambridge] is LeeF
- 15:31:14 [Zakim]
- +LeeF; got it
- 15:31:15 [DanC]
- agenda + SPARQL Protocol and WSDL
- 15:31:21 [DanC]
- agenda + Security Considerations
- 15:31:26 [Zakim]
- +Elias_Torres
- 15:31:27 [DanC]
- agenda + issues#rdfSemantics
- 15:31:33 [DanC]
- agenda + Toward CR
- 15:31:42 [DanC]
- Zakim, take up item 1
- 15:31:42 [Zakim]
- agendum 1. "Convene, take roll, review records and agenda" taken up [from DanC]
- 15:31:49 [DanC]
- Zakim, who's on the phone?
- 15:31:49 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see AndyS, DanC, PatH, Jeen, Kendall_Clark, LeeF, Elias_Torres
- 15:32:31 [DanC]
- Zakim, pick a scribe
- 15:32:31 [Zakim]
- Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Kendall_Clark
- 15:32:35 [DanC]
- Zakim, pick a scribe
- 15:32:35 [Zakim]
- Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Elias_Torres
- 15:32:50 [EliasT]
- EliasT has joined #dawg
- 15:32:59 [DanC]
- Zakim, pick a scribe
- 15:32:59 [Zakim]
- Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose LeeF
- 15:33:04 [EliasT]
- Zakim, who's on the phone?
- 15:33:04 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see AndyS, DanC, PatH, Jeen, Kendall_Clark, LeeF, Elias_Torres
- 15:33:07 [DanC]
- Scribe: LeeF
- 15:33:13 [EliasT]
- Zakim, Elias_Torres is EliasT
- 15:33:13 [Zakim]
- +EliasT; got it
- 15:33:18 [kendall]
- I'll help Lee
- 15:33:23 [LeeF]
- aww thanks, kendall
- 15:33:27 [DanC]
- regrets: EricP, Jos, Janne
- 15:33:31 [DanC]
- DanC has changed the topic to: DAWG 1 Nov
- 15:33:50 [DanC]
- -> http://www.w3.org/2005/10/25-dawg-minutes minutes 25 Oct
- 15:33:57 [DanC]
- RESOLVED to accept
- 15:34:08 [EliasT]
- Zakim, mute me please
- 15:34:08 [Zakim]
- EliasT should now be muted
- 15:34:16 [LeeF]
- RESOLVED to accept http://www.w3.org/2005/10/25-dawg-minutes minutes 25 Oct as true record
- 15:34:25 [DanC]
- ACTION: AndyS to Update grammar inline with value testing decision [DONE]
- 15:34:28 [DanC]
- 7 others cont
- 15:34:50 [LeeF]
- ACTION DanC: publish WSDL 1.1 sparql protocol note, contingent on thumbs-up from KC, EricP, Lee/Elias. [DONE]
- 15:35:15 [LeeF]
- LeeF to ask WSDL WG to review WSDL 1.1 SPARQL protocol stuff, once it is available. [DONE]
- 15:35:22 [DanC]
- Zakim, next item
- 15:35:22 [Zakim]
- agendum 2. "next meeting" taken up [from DanC]
- 15:35:25 [LeeF]
- ACTION LeeF to ask WSDL WG to review WSDL 1.1 SPARQL protocol stuff, once it is available. [DONE]
- 15:35:46 [LeeF]
- I'll get this right, eventually. Sorry for spamming IRC
- 15:35:56 [LeeF]
- ACTION LeeF: to ask WSDL WG to review WSDL 1.1 SPARQL protocol stuff, once it is available. [DONE]
- 15:36:27 [DanC]
- 8 Nov conflicts with ISWC. but none of us is going, evidently.
- 15:36:46 [LeeF]
- ACTION: EricP to fix test schema to match manifest with negative tests [recorded in 09/27-dawg-minutes.html#action16]] [CONTINUED]
- 15:37:16 [EliasT]
- earlier, please.
- 15:37:30 [LeeF]
- ACTION: DanC to follow up re optional test based on op:dateTime triple [CONTINUED]
- 15:37:37 [EliasT]
- 14:30Z works for me
- 15:37:46 [LeeF]
- ACTION: EricP to respond to "Security Considerations" comment [CONTINUED]
- 15:37:54 [patH]
- for the record, Im OK with either time.
- 15:38:03 [LeeF]
- ACTION: ericP to respond to isURI poorly named [CONTINUED]
- 15:38:12 [DanC]
- Zakim, who's on the phone?
- 15:38:12 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see AndyS, DanC, PatH, Jeen, Kendall_Clark, LeeF, EliasT (muted)
- 15:38:20 [LeeF]
- ACTION: KendallC to remove uses of "my" in URIs in protocol spec [CONTINUED]
- 15:38:55 [LeeF]
- ACTION DaveB: add to test suite the temperature case from comment on truth tables in commentor's message [CONTINUED]
- 15:39:04 [LeeF]
- ACTION: AndyS to Update grammar inline with value testing decision [CONTINUED]
- 15:39:16 [AndyS]
- Action done!
- 15:39:30 [EliasT]
- Zakim, unmute me
- 15:39:30 [Zakim]
- EliasT should no longer be muted
- 15:39:35 [LeeF]
- sorry, AndyS
- 15:39:37 [LeeF]
- action - 10
- 15:39:45 [LeeF]
- nice
- 15:40:00 [LeeF]
- ACTION ericP: to update sop:isIRI to include the "isuri" synonym [CONTINUED]
- 15:40:09 [DanC]
- PROPSED: to meet next 8 Nov 14:30Z...
- 15:40:15 [DanC]
- Zakim, pick a scribe
- 15:40:15 [Zakim]
- Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose PatH
- 15:40:52 [DanC]
- RESOLVED: to meet next 8 Nov 14:30Z, JanneS to scribe
- 15:40:57 [LeeF]
- . Scribe for Nov 8 at 14:30Z - Janne
- 15:41:11 [DanC]
- note pre-AC publication cut-off of 21 Nov
- 15:41:26 [DanC]
- Zakim, next item
- 15:41:26 [Zakim]
- agendum 3. "Note on querying lists" taken up [from DanC]
- 15:41:50 [kendall]
- boo hiss
- 15:42:23 [kendall]
- w3c should make it *easy* for WGs to publish these kinds of things, IMO
- 15:42:40 [DanC]
- sotd of WSDL 1.1 thingy http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-sprot11-20051024/
- 15:44:13 [kendall]
- have we tried to judge consensus on the technical approach?
- 15:44:23 [kendall]
- seems like we have it, more or less
- 15:44:23 [LeeF]
- AndyS: Would like to see something done about querying trees - put something in general DAWG space?
- 15:45:05 [LeeF]
- kendall: would like to see as a Note; no cycles to spare.
- 15:45:41 [LeeF]
- DanC: critical mass to work on on WG time
- 15:45:47 [DanC]
- tx for advice
- 15:45:49 [DanC]
- Zakim, next item
- 15:45:49 [Zakim]
- agendum 4. "protocol testing update" taken up [from DanC]
- 15:45:54 [franconi]
- franconi has joined #dawg
- 15:46:30 [DanC]
- ACTION: Jeen try to reproduces EliasT's protocol testing results [CONTINUES]
- 15:46:33 [franconi]
- I can join the phone conf. only later :-(
- 15:46:38 [DanC]
- roger, franconi
- 15:46:40 [DanC]
- Zakim, next item
- 15:46:40 [Zakim]
- agendum 4 was just opened, DanC
- 15:46:46 [DanC]
- Zakim, close item 4
- 15:46:46 [Zakim]
- agendum 4, protocol testing update, closed
- 15:46:47 [Zakim]
- I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 15:46:48 [Zakim]
- 5. SPARQL Protocol and WSDL [from DanC]
- 15:46:49 [DanC]
- Zakim, next item
- 15:46:49 [Zakim]
- agendum 5. "SPARQL Protocol and WSDL" taken up [from DanC]
- 15:47:13 [DanC]
- ACTION KC: review sparql-types for xs:any weirdness, w.r.t. WSDL 2.0 constraints [CONTINUES]
- 15:47:32 [DanC]
- ACTION: DanC to notifty DAWG of WSDL response to our WSDL comments [PENDING]
- 15:47:56 [DanC]
- ACTION: KendallC to Send review of SPARQL protocol spec from WS-Desc to DAWG list. [DONE]
- 15:48:05 [kendall]
- I *think* there have been some proposals re: our pending issue, but I haven't read them yet.
- 15:48:36 [DanC]
- (I should mark the wsdlProtocol issue open, shouldn't I?_
- 15:48:38 [DanC]
- )
- 15:49:39 [DanC]
- Zakim, next item
- 15:49:39 [Zakim]
- agendum 6. "Security Considerations" taken up [from DanC]
- 15:49:59 [DanC]
- ACTION: KendallC to add a modified version of http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#security to protocol editor's draft, as well as a pointer to the section in rq23 itself [CONTINUES]
- 15:50:09 [DanC]
- Zakim, next item
- 15:50:09 [Zakim]
- agendum 6 was just opened, DanC
- 15:50:18 [DanC]
- Zakim, close item 6
- 15:50:18 [Zakim]
- agendum 6, Security Considerations, closed
- 15:50:19 [Zakim]
- I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 15:50:20 [Zakim]
- 7. issues#rdfSemantics [from DanC]
- 15:50:21 [DanC]
- Zakim, next item
- 15:50:21 [Zakim]
- agendum 7. "issues#rdfSemantics" taken up [from DanC]
- 15:50:58 [franconi]
- can we have this item as the last point, so I can join?
- 15:51:23 [franconi]
- (unless it ialready the last :-)
- 15:51:25 [DanC]
- agenda order = 8, 7
- 15:51:31 [DanC]
- Zakim, agenda order = 8, 7
- 15:51:31 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'agenda order = 8, 7', DanC
- 15:51:37 [DanC]
- Zakim, take up item 8
- 15:51:37 [Zakim]
- agendum 8. "Toward CR" taken up [from DanC]
- 15:53:15 [LeeF]
- DanC: When is the next time we should publish QL spec?
- 15:54:06 [LeeF]
- AndyS: non-LC publication before 21 Nov despite pending editorial issues
- 15:54:41 [kendall]
- +1
- 15:55:05 [LeeF]
- patH: delay decision on publish of QL pending outcome of semantics issue?
- 15:56:39 [LeeF]
- DanC: Because last publish was a LC publish, would like to do section-by-section change summary
- 15:57:35 [LeeF]
- DanC: Will aim for publishing *something* before 21 Nov
- 15:58:57 [LeeF]
- DanC: Charter puts forth closure method for querying graphs - might have to vote against parametrized entailment
- 15:59:25 [LeeF]
- patH: if we restrict to lower than OWL entailment, than it's equivalent to closure and could fall within charter
- 15:59:31 [LeeF]
- (please correct me if I'm summarizing wrong!)
- 15:59:39 [DanC]
- (we're leaking into issues#rdfSemantics ... note, enrico, call in asap pls)
- 16:00:18 [enricofranconi]
- enricofranconi has joined #dawg
- 16:00:25 [LeeF]
- DanC: need OWL worker example in our test cases -- will it be "extra credit" or standardized?
- 16:01:13 [Zakim]
- + +39.320.922.aaaa
- 16:01:17 [enricofranconi]
- that's me
- 16:01:27 [LeeF]
- zakim, 39.320.922.aaaa is enricofranconi
- 16:01:27 [Zakim]
- sorry, LeeF, I do not recognize a party named '39.320.922.aaaa'
- 16:01:36 [LeeF]
- zakim, +39.320.922.aaaa is enricofranconi
- 16:01:36 [Zakim]
- +enricofranconi; got it
- 16:02:06 [enricofranconi]
- I've just sent a reply to Pat's messages on the semantics to the list
- 16:03:07 [kendall]
- just trying to get all the procedural aspects sorted out in my head
- 16:03:27 [LeeF]
- DanC: WG members should look for publication decision around Nov 8 or Nov 15
- 16:03:48 [Zakim]
- -enricofranconi
- 16:04:36 [Zakim]
- +enricofranconi
- 16:05:06 [LeeF]
- DanC: can probably do two spread out press releases during CR during the month of _______ (noun) ?
- 16:07:33 [DanC]
- http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/weekly-agenda
- 16:10:16 [LeeF]
- DanC: looks for flag bearers for pending and open LC comments
- 16:11:39 [DanC]
- Zakim, pick a victim
- 16:11:39 [Zakim]
- Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Kendall_Clark
- 16:12:38 [LeeF]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2005Sep/0013
- 16:13:53 [DanC]
- audit is in http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/weekly-agenda
- 16:19:18 [kendall]
- And if we add more protocol operations in the future, which seems at least *possible*, you end up with even *more* WSDL operations and bindings.
- 16:19:59 [DanC]
- Zakim, take up item 7
- 16:19:59 [Zakim]
- agendum 7. "issues#rdfSemantics" taken up [from DanC]
- 16:20:16 [LeeF]
- DanC: Would like non-editor support in responding to LC comments
- 16:23:05 [EliasT]
- +1
- 16:27:01 [kendall]
- well, that leaking can be devilishly useful, modulo other problems
- 16:27:35 [kendall]
- for my $$, a cleaner solution would have been to add subqueries, a la iTQL and others
- 16:27:35 [DanC]
- (I gather the + 1 was re "we could adjourn and let pat and enrico talk)
- 16:28:30 [AndyS]
- Subqueries don't work if you can't construct the subquery without knowing the first result (e.g. one of Ron's example on collections)
- 16:28:31 [DanC]
- (time draws near)
- 16:28:51 [kendall]
- hmm
- 16:29:59 [AndyS]
- { ?x foaf:mbox <mailto:Xyz> . optional { ?x foaf:name ?name } }
- 16:30:32 [AndyS]
- Subqueries don't do transitivity needed for list tail.
- 16:31:24 [Zakim]
- -EliasT
- 16:32:25 [AndyS]
- The <_:abc> form would be a non-std way to do it. And only apply for abstract syntax mode not entailment (RDF, RDFS, OWL)
- 16:32:46 [AndyS]
- Needs also Result Set format tweak.
- 16:33:25 [DanC]
- ADJOURN.
- 16:33:59 [LeeF]
- DanC -- if you can run the magic when you have a chance, I'll clean up and mail out the minutes.
- 16:34:01 [kendall]
- i'm not entirely clear how this interacts with entailment, OWL or otherwise.
- 16:34:01 [DanC]
- LeeF, do you have what you need to produce a record of today's meeting and mail it to the WG in a day or so?
- 16:34:08 [DanC]
- RRSAgent, make logs world-access
- 16:34:26 [DanC]
- RRSAgent, please draft minutes
- 16:34:26 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/11/01-dawg-minutes.html DanC
- 16:34:37 [LeeF]
- thanks kindly
- 16:35:50 [Zakim]
- -DanC
- 16:36:42 [LeeF]
- zakim, list attendees
- 16:36:42 [Zakim]
- As of this point the attendees have been AndyS, DanC, PatH, Kendall_Clark, Jeen, LeeF, EliasT, enricofranconi
- 16:36:47 [LeeF]
- thanks, zakim
- 16:37:25 [LeeF]
- Chair: DanC
- 16:40:29 [Zakim]
- -Jeen
- 16:40:35 [LeeF]
- goodbye, jeen
- 16:43:29 [Zakim]
- -AndyS
- 16:45:02 [kendall]
- zakim, mute me
- 16:45:02 [Zakim]
- Kendall_Clark should now be muted
- 16:45:22 [DanC]
- RRSAgent, please draft minutes
- 16:45:25 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/11/01-dawg-minutes.html DanC
- 16:45:54 [DanC]
- Lee, you have to do that again if you want it to notice your later Chair: note
- 16:46:01 [LeeF]
- I know - I did the Chair: line and then abandoned it and just did it by hand =)
- 16:46:11 [LeeF]
- thanks though
- 16:46:12 [DanC]
- ok
- 16:46:27 [kendall]
- later guys
- 16:46:31 [Zakim]
- -Kendall_Clark
- 17:00:47 [Zakim]
- -LeeF
- 17:00:49 [Zakim]
- -enricofranconi
- 17:00:50 [Zakim]
- -PatH
- 17:00:51 [Zakim]
- SW_DAWG()9:30AM has ended
- 17:00:52 [Zakim]
- Attendees were AndyS, DanC, PatH, Kendall_Clark, Jeen, LeeF, EliasT, enricofranconi
- 18:46:06 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #dawg
- 19:31:56 [LeeF]
- Do we have any tests that use CONSTRUCT queries rather than SELECT queries?
- 19:32:10 [LeeF]
- (I don't see any on http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/ )