14:40:03 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dawg
14:40:03 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/11/01-dawg-irc
14:40:03 <Zakim> ok, DanC; that matches SW_DAWG()9:30AM
14:40:06 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:40:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P1
14:40:12 <AndyS> zakim, ??P1 is AndyS
14:40:12 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
14:40:13 <Zakim> +DanC
14:40:28 <AndyS> DanC - NP - it's just me at the moment :-/
14:45:27 <Zakim> -DanC
14:45:29 <Zakim> -AndyS
14:45:31 <Zakim> SW_DAWG()9:30AM has ended
14:45:32 <Zakim> Attendees were AndyS, DanC
14:51:00 <LeeF> LeeF has joined #dawg
14:51:08 <LeeF> g'day, everyone
14:57:27 <Zakim> SW_DAWG()9:30AM has now started
14:57:34 <Zakim> +[IBMCambridge]
14:57:35 <Zakim> -[IBMCambridge]
14:57:35 <Zakim> SW_DAWG()9:30AM has ended
14:57:36 <Zakim> Attendees were [IBMCambridge]
14:59:06 <DanC> hi Lee.
14:59:21 <DanC> DanC has changed the topic to: DAWG 1 Nov. Try again at 10:30aET / 15:30Z
15:00:33 <LeeF> howdy, sorry for the time change foul up
15:01:20 <DanC> more my fault than yours, really
15:02:11 <LeeF> Well, I read the "note the time change" part of the agenda, but was rather ET-centric in my interpretation of what it might mean
15:03:43 <AndyS> AndyS has joined #dawg
15:12:10 <jeen> jeen has joined #dawg
15:13:41 <jeen> oh crud. completely forgot the daylight savings thingy.
15:15:55 <DanC> you're not alone, jeen
15:21:23 <Zakim> SW_DAWG()9:30AM has now started
15:21:28 <Zakim> SW_DAWG()9:30AM has ended
15:21:29 <Zakim> Attendees were 
15:24:55 <kendall> kendall has joined #dawg
15:29:14 <Zakim> SW_DAWG()9:30AM has now started
15:29:21 <Zakim> +??P2
15:29:29 <AndyS> zakim, ??P2 is AndyS
15:29:29 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
15:29:53 <Zakim> +DanC
15:30:06 <Zakim> +PatH
15:30:20 <DanC> agenda + Convene, take roll, review records and agenda
15:30:29 <DanC> agenda + next meeting
15:30:34 <Zakim> +??P5
15:30:44 <DanC> agenda + Note on querying lists
15:30:47 <Zakim> +Kendall_Clark
15:30:58 <jeen> zakim, ??P5 is Jeen
15:30:58 <Zakim> +Jeen; got it
15:31:06 <LeeF> zakim, [IBMCambridge] is LeeF
15:31:06 <Zakim> sorry, LeeF, I do not recognize a party named '[IBMCambridge]'
15:31:07 <DanC> agenda + protocol testing update
15:31:08 <Zakim> +[IBMCambridge]
15:31:11 <patH> patH has joined #dawg
15:31:14 <LeeF> zakim, [IBMCambridge] is LeeF
15:31:14 <Zakim> +LeeF; got it
15:31:15 <DanC> agenda + SPARQL Protocol and WSDL
15:31:21 <DanC> agenda + Security Considerations
15:31:26 <Zakim> +Elias_Torres
15:31:27 <DanC> agenda + issues#rdfSemantics
15:31:33 <DanC> agenda + Toward CR
15:31:42 <DanC> Zakim, take up item 1
15:31:42 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Convene, take roll, review records and agenda" taken up [from DanC]
15:31:49 <DanC> Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:31:49 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, DanC, PatH, Jeen, Kendall_Clark, LeeF, Elias_Torres
15:32:31 <DanC> Zakim, pick a scribe
15:32:31 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Kendall_Clark
15:32:35 <DanC> Zakim, pick a scribe
15:32:35 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Elias_Torres
15:32:50 <EliasT> EliasT has joined #dawg
15:32:59 <DanC> Zakim, pick a scribe
15:32:59 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose LeeF
15:33:04 <EliasT> Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:33:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, DanC, PatH, Jeen, Kendall_Clark, LeeF, Elias_Torres
15:33:07 <DanC> Scribe: LeeF
15:33:13 <EliasT> Zakim, Elias_Torres is EliasT
15:33:13 <Zakim> +EliasT; got it
15:33:18 <kendall> I'll help Lee
15:33:23 <LeeF> aww thanks, kendall
15:33:27 <DanC> regrets: EricP, Jos, Janne
15:33:31 <DanC> DanC has changed the topic to: DAWG 1 Nov
15:33:50 <DanC> -> http://www.w3.org/2005/10/25-dawg-minutes minutes 25 Oct
15:33:57 <DanC> RESOLVED to accept
15:34:08 <EliasT> Zakim, mute me please
15:34:08 <Zakim> EliasT should now be muted
15:34:16 <LeeF> RESOLVED to accept http://www.w3.org/2005/10/25-dawg-minutes minutes 25 Oct as true record
15:34:25 <DanC> ACTION: AndyS to Update grammar inline with value testing decision [DONE]
15:34:28 <DanC> 7 others cont
15:34:50 <LeeF> ACTION DanC: publish WSDL 1.1 sparql protocol note, contingent on thumbs-up from KC, EricP, Lee/Elias. [DONE]
15:35:15 <LeeF> LeeF to ask WSDL WG to review WSDL 1.1 SPARQL protocol stuff, once it is available. [DONE]
15:35:22 <DanC> Zakim, next item
15:35:22 <Zakim> agendum 2. "next meeting" taken up [from DanC]
15:35:25 <LeeF> ACTION LeeF to ask WSDL WG to review WSDL 1.1 SPARQL protocol stuff, once it is available. [DONE]
15:35:46 <LeeF> I'll get this right, eventually. Sorry for spamming IRC
15:35:56 <LeeF> ACTION LeeF:  to ask WSDL WG to review WSDL 1.1 SPARQL protocol stuff, once it is available. [DONE]
15:36:27 <DanC> 8 Nov conflicts with ISWC. but none of us is going, evidently.
15:36:46 <LeeF> ACTION: EricP to fix test schema to match manifest with negative tests [recorded in 09/27-dawg-minutes.html#action16]] [CONTINUED]
15:37:16 <EliasT> earlier, please.
15:37:30 <LeeF> ACTION: DanC to follow up re optional test based on op:dateTime triple [CONTINUED]
15:37:37 <EliasT> 14:30Z works for me 
15:37:46 <LeeF> ACTION: EricP to respond to "Security Considerations" comment [CONTINUED]
15:37:54 <patH> for the record, Im OK with either time.
15:38:03 <LeeF> ACTION: ericP to respond to isURI poorly named [CONTINUED]
15:38:12 <DanC> Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:38:12 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, DanC, PatH, Jeen, Kendall_Clark, LeeF, EliasT (muted)
15:38:20 <LeeF> ACTION: KendallC to remove uses of "my" in URIs in protocol spec [CONTINUED]
15:38:55 <LeeF> ACTION DaveB: add to test suite the temperature case from comment on truth tables in commentor's message [CONTINUED]
15:39:04 <LeeF> ACTION: AndyS to Update grammar inline with value testing decision [CONTINUED]
15:39:16 <AndyS> Action done!
15:39:30 <EliasT> Zakim, unmute me
15:39:30 <Zakim> EliasT should no longer be muted
15:39:35 <LeeF> sorry, AndyS
15:39:37 <LeeF> action - 10
15:39:45 <LeeF> nice
15:40:00 <LeeF> ACTION ericP: to update sop:isIRI to include the "isuri" synonym [CONTINUED]
15:40:09 <DanC> PROPSED: to meet next 8 Nov 14:30Z...
15:40:15 <DanC> Zakim, pick a scribe
15:40:15 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose PatH
15:40:52 <DanC> RESOLVED: to meet next 8 Nov 14:30Z, JanneS to scribe
15:40:57 <LeeF> . Scribe for Nov 8 at 14:30Z - Janne 
15:41:11 <DanC> note pre-AC publication cut-off of 21 Nov
15:41:26 <DanC> Zakim, next item
15:41:26 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Note on querying lists" taken up [from DanC]
15:41:50 <kendall> boo hiss
15:42:23 <kendall> w3c should make it *easy* for WGs to publish these kinds of things, IMO
15:42:40 <DanC> sotd of WSDL 1.1 thingy http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-sprot11-20051024/
15:44:13 <kendall> have we tried to judge consensus on the technical approach?
15:44:23 <kendall> seems like we have it, more or less
15:44:23 <LeeF> AndyS: Would like to see something done about querying trees - put something in general DAWG space?
15:45:05 <LeeF> kendall: would like to see as a Note; no cycles to spare. 
15:45:41 <LeeF> DanC: critical mass to work on on WG time
15:45:47 <DanC> tx for advice
15:45:49 <DanC> Zakim, next item
15:45:49 <Zakim> agendum 4. "protocol testing update" taken up [from DanC]
15:45:54 <franconi> franconi has joined #dawg
15:46:30 <DanC> ACTION: Jeen try to reproduces EliasT's protocol testing results [CONTINUES]
15:46:33 <franconi> I can join the phone conf. only later :-(
15:46:38 <DanC> roger, franconi 
15:46:40 <DanC> Zakim, next item
15:46:40 <Zakim> agendum 4 was just opened, DanC
15:46:46 <DanC> Zakim, close item 4
15:46:46 <Zakim> agendum 4, protocol testing update, closed
15:46:47 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:46:48 <Zakim> 5. SPARQL Protocol and WSDL [from DanC]
15:46:49 <DanC> Zakim, next item
15:46:49 <Zakim> agendum 5. "SPARQL Protocol and WSDL" taken up [from DanC]
15:47:13 <DanC> ACTION KC: review sparql-types for xs:any weirdness, w.r.t. WSDL 2.0 constraints [CONTINUES]
15:47:32 <DanC> ACTION: DanC to notifty DAWG of WSDL response to our WSDL comments [PENDING]
15:47:56 <DanC> ACTION: KendallC to Send review of SPARQL protocol spec from WS-Desc to DAWG list. [DONE]
15:48:05 <kendall> I *think* there have been some proposals re: our pending issue, but I haven't read them yet.
15:48:36 <DanC> (I should mark the wsdlProtocol issue open, shouldn't I?_
15:48:38 <DanC> )
15:49:39 <DanC> Zakim, next item
15:49:39 <Zakim> agendum 6. "Security Considerations" taken up [from DanC]
15:49:59 <DanC> ACTION: KendallC to add a modified version of http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#security to protocol editor's draft, as well as a pointer to the section in rq23 itself [CONTINUES]
15:50:09 <DanC> Zakim, next item
15:50:09 <Zakim> agendum 6 was just opened, DanC
15:50:18 <DanC> Zakim, close item 6
15:50:18 <Zakim> agendum 6, Security Considerations, closed
15:50:19 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:50:20 <Zakim> 7. issues#rdfSemantics [from DanC]
15:50:21 <DanC> Zakim, next item
15:50:21 <Zakim> agendum 7. "issues#rdfSemantics" taken up [from DanC]
15:50:58 <franconi> can we have this item as the last point, so I can join?
15:51:23 <franconi> (unless it ialready the last :-)
15:51:25 <DanC> agenda order = 8, 7
15:51:31 <DanC> Zakim, agenda order = 8, 7
15:51:31 <Zakim> I don't understand 'agenda order = 8, 7', DanC
15:51:37 <DanC> Zakim, take up item 8
15:51:37 <Zakim> agendum 8. "Toward CR" taken up [from DanC]
15:53:15 <LeeF> DanC: When is the next time we should publish QL spec?
15:54:06 <LeeF> AndyS: non-LC publication before 21 Nov despite pending editorial issues
15:54:41 <kendall> +1
15:55:05 <LeeF> patH: delay decision on publish of QL pending outcome of semantics issue?
15:56:39 <LeeF> DanC: Because last publish was a LC publish, would like to do section-by-section change summary
15:57:35 <LeeF> DanC: Will aim for publishing *something* before 21 Nov
15:58:57 <LeeF> DanC: Charter puts forth closure method for querying graphs - might have to vote against parametrized entailment
15:59:25 <LeeF> patH: if we restrict to lower than OWL entailment, than it's equivalent to closure and could fall within charter
15:59:31 <LeeF> (please correct me if I'm summarizing wrong!)
15:59:39 <DanC> (we're leaking into issues#rdfSemantics ... note, enrico, call in asap pls)
16:00:18 <enricofranconi> enricofranconi has joined #dawg
16:00:25 <LeeF> DanC: need OWL worker example in our test cases -- will it be "extra credit" or standardized?
16:01:13 <Zakim> + +39.320.922.aaaa
16:01:17 <enricofranconi> that's me
16:01:27 <LeeF> zakim, 39.320.922.aaaa is enricofranconi
16:01:27 <Zakim> sorry, LeeF, I do not recognize a party named '39.320.922.aaaa'
16:01:36 <LeeF> zakim, +39.320.922.aaaa is enricofranconi
16:01:36 <Zakim> +enricofranconi; got it
16:02:06 <enricofranconi> I've just sent a reply to Pat's messages on the semantics to the list
16:03:07 <kendall> just trying to get all the procedural aspects sorted out in my head
16:03:27 <LeeF> DanC: WG members should look for publication decision around Nov 8 or Nov 15
16:03:48 <Zakim> -enricofranconi
16:04:36 <Zakim> +enricofranconi
16:05:06 <LeeF> DanC: can probably do two spread out press releases during CR during the month of _______ (noun) ?
16:07:33 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/weekly-agenda
16:10:16 <LeeF> DanC: looks for flag bearers for pending and open LC comments
16:11:39 <DanC> Zakim, pick a victim
16:11:39 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Kendall_Clark
16:12:38 <LeeF> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2005Sep/0013
16:13:53 <DanC> audit is in http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/weekly-agenda
16:19:18 <kendall> And if we add more protocol operations in the future, which seems at least *possible*, you end up with even *more* WSDL operations and bindings.
16:19:59 <DanC> Zakim, take up item 7
16:19:59 <Zakim> agendum 7. "issues#rdfSemantics" taken up [from DanC]
16:20:16 <LeeF> DanC: Would like non-editor support in responding to LC comments
16:23:05 <EliasT> +1
16:27:01 <kendall> well, that leaking can be devilishly useful, modulo other problems
16:27:35 <kendall> for my $$, a cleaner solution would have been to add subqueries, a la iTQL and others
16:27:35 <DanC> (I gather the + 1 was re "we could adjourn and let pat and enrico talk)
16:28:30 <AndyS> Subqueries don't work if you can't construct the subquery without knowing the first result (e.g. one of Ron's example on collections)
16:28:31 <DanC> (time draws near)
16:28:51 <kendall> hmm
16:29:59 <AndyS> { ?x foaf:mbox <mailto:Xyz> . optional { ?x foaf:name ?name } }
16:30:32 <AndyS> Subqueries don't do transitivity needed for list tail.
16:31:24 <Zakim> -EliasT
16:32:25 <AndyS> The <_:abc> form would be a non-std way to do it. And only apply for abstract syntax mode not entailment (RDF, RDFS, OWL)
16:32:46 <AndyS> Needs also Result Set format tweak.
16:33:25 <DanC> ADJOURN.
16:33:59 <LeeF> DanC -- if you can run the magic when you have a chance, I'll clean up and mail out the minutes.
16:34:01 <kendall> i'm not entirely clear how this interacts with entailment, OWL or otherwise.
16:34:01 <DanC> LeeF, do you have what you need to produce a record of today's meeting and mail it to the WG in a day or so?
16:34:08 <DanC> RRSAgent, make logs world-access
16:34:26 <DanC> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:34:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/11/01-dawg-minutes.html DanC
16:34:37 <LeeF> thanks kindly
16:35:50 <Zakim> -DanC
16:36:42 <LeeF> zakim, list attendees
16:36:42 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been AndyS, DanC, PatH, Kendall_Clark, Jeen, LeeF, EliasT, enricofranconi
16:36:47 <LeeF> thanks, zakim
16:37:25 <LeeF> Chair: DanC
16:40:29 <Zakim> -Jeen
16:40:35 <LeeF> goodbye, jeen
16:43:29 <Zakim> -AndyS
16:45:02 <kendall> zakim, mute me
16:45:02 <Zakim> Kendall_Clark should now be muted
16:45:22 <DanC> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:45:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/11/01-dawg-minutes.html DanC
16:45:54 <DanC> Lee, you have to do that again if you want it to notice your later Chair: note
16:46:01 <LeeF> I know - I did the Chair: line and then abandoned it and just did it by hand =)
16:46:11 <LeeF> thanks though
16:46:12 <DanC> ok
16:46:27 <kendall> later guys
16:46:31 <Zakim> -Kendall_Clark
17:00:47 <Zakim> -LeeF
17:00:49 <Zakim> -enricofranconi
17:00:50 <Zakim> -PatH
17:00:51 <Zakim> SW_DAWG()9:30AM has ended
17:00:52 <Zakim> Attendees were AndyS, DanC, PatH, Kendall_Clark, Jeen, LeeF, EliasT, enricofranconi
18:46:06 <Zakim> Zakim has left #dawg
19:31:56 <LeeF> Do we have any tests that use CONSTRUCT queries rather than SELECT queries?
19:32:10 <LeeF> (I don't see any on http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/ )