IRC log of dawg on 2005-11-01

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:40:03 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #dawg
14:40:03 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/11/01-dawg-irc
14:40:03 [Zakim]
ok, DanC; that matches SW_DAWG()9:30AM
14:40:06 [AndyS]
zakim, who is on the phone?
14:40:06 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ??P1
14:40:12 [AndyS]
zakim, ??P1 is AndyS
14:40:12 [Zakim]
+AndyS; got it
14:40:13 [Zakim]
+DanC
14:40:28 [AndyS]
DanC - NP - it's just me at the moment :-/
14:45:27 [Zakim]
-DanC
14:45:29 [Zakim]
-AndyS
14:45:31 [Zakim]
SW_DAWG()9:30AM has ended
14:45:32 [Zakim]
Attendees were AndyS, DanC
14:51:00 [LeeF]
LeeF has joined #dawg
14:51:08 [LeeF]
g'day, everyone
14:57:27 [Zakim]
SW_DAWG()9:30AM has now started
14:57:34 [Zakim]
+[IBMCambridge]
14:57:35 [Zakim]
-[IBMCambridge]
14:57:35 [Zakim]
SW_DAWG()9:30AM has ended
14:57:36 [Zakim]
Attendees were [IBMCambridge]
14:59:06 [DanC]
hi Lee.
14:59:21 [DanC]
DanC has changed the topic to: DAWG 1 Nov. Try again at 10:30aET / 15:30Z
15:00:33 [LeeF]
howdy, sorry for the time change foul up
15:01:20 [DanC]
more my fault than yours, really
15:02:11 [LeeF]
Well, I read the "note the time change" part of the agenda, but was rather ET-centric in my interpretation of what it might mean
15:03:43 [AndyS]
AndyS has joined #dawg
15:12:10 [jeen]
jeen has joined #dawg
15:13:41 [jeen]
oh crud. completely forgot the daylight savings thingy.
15:15:55 [DanC]
you're not alone, jeen
15:21:23 [Zakim]
SW_DAWG()9:30AM has now started
15:21:28 [Zakim]
SW_DAWG()9:30AM has ended
15:21:29 [Zakim]
Attendees were
15:24:55 [kendall]
kendall has joined #dawg
15:29:14 [Zakim]
SW_DAWG()9:30AM has now started
15:29:21 [Zakim]
+??P2
15:29:29 [AndyS]
zakim, ??P2 is AndyS
15:29:29 [Zakim]
+AndyS; got it
15:29:53 [Zakim]
+DanC
15:30:06 [Zakim]
+PatH
15:30:20 [DanC]
agenda + Convene, take roll, review records and agenda
15:30:29 [DanC]
agenda + next meeting
15:30:34 [Zakim]
+??P5
15:30:44 [DanC]
agenda + Note on querying lists
15:30:47 [Zakim]
+Kendall_Clark
15:30:58 [jeen]
zakim, ??P5 is Jeen
15:30:58 [Zakim]
+Jeen; got it
15:31:06 [LeeF]
zakim, [IBMCambridge] is LeeF
15:31:06 [Zakim]
sorry, LeeF, I do not recognize a party named '[IBMCambridge]'
15:31:07 [DanC]
agenda + protocol testing update
15:31:08 [Zakim]
+[IBMCambridge]
15:31:11 [patH]
patH has joined #dawg
15:31:14 [LeeF]
zakim, [IBMCambridge] is LeeF
15:31:14 [Zakim]
+LeeF; got it
15:31:15 [DanC]
agenda + SPARQL Protocol and WSDL
15:31:21 [DanC]
agenda + Security Considerations
15:31:26 [Zakim]
+Elias_Torres
15:31:27 [DanC]
agenda + issues#rdfSemantics
15:31:33 [DanC]
agenda + Toward CR
15:31:42 [DanC]
Zakim, take up item 1
15:31:42 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Convene, take roll, review records and agenda" taken up [from DanC]
15:31:49 [DanC]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:31:49 [Zakim]
On the phone I see AndyS, DanC, PatH, Jeen, Kendall_Clark, LeeF, Elias_Torres
15:32:31 [DanC]
Zakim, pick a scribe
15:32:31 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Kendall_Clark
15:32:35 [DanC]
Zakim, pick a scribe
15:32:35 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Elias_Torres
15:32:50 [EliasT]
EliasT has joined #dawg
15:32:59 [DanC]
Zakim, pick a scribe
15:32:59 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose LeeF
15:33:04 [EliasT]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:33:04 [Zakim]
On the phone I see AndyS, DanC, PatH, Jeen, Kendall_Clark, LeeF, Elias_Torres
15:33:07 [DanC]
Scribe: LeeF
15:33:13 [EliasT]
Zakim, Elias_Torres is EliasT
15:33:13 [Zakim]
+EliasT; got it
15:33:18 [kendall]
I'll help Lee
15:33:23 [LeeF]
aww thanks, kendall
15:33:27 [DanC]
regrets: EricP, Jos, Janne
15:33:31 [DanC]
DanC has changed the topic to: DAWG 1 Nov
15:33:50 [DanC]
-> http://www.w3.org/2005/10/25-dawg-minutes minutes 25 Oct
15:33:57 [DanC]
RESOLVED to accept
15:34:08 [EliasT]
Zakim, mute me please
15:34:08 [Zakim]
EliasT should now be muted
15:34:16 [LeeF]
RESOLVED to accept http://www.w3.org/2005/10/25-dawg-minutes minutes 25 Oct as true record
15:34:25 [DanC]
ACTION: AndyS to Update grammar inline with value testing decision [DONE]
15:34:28 [DanC]
7 others cont
15:34:50 [LeeF]
ACTION DanC: publish WSDL 1.1 sparql protocol note, contingent on thumbs-up from KC, EricP, Lee/Elias. [DONE]
15:35:15 [LeeF]
LeeF to ask WSDL WG to review WSDL 1.1 SPARQL protocol stuff, once it is available. [DONE]
15:35:22 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
15:35:22 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "next meeting" taken up [from DanC]
15:35:25 [LeeF]
ACTION LeeF to ask WSDL WG to review WSDL 1.1 SPARQL protocol stuff, once it is available. [DONE]
15:35:46 [LeeF]
I'll get this right, eventually. Sorry for spamming IRC
15:35:56 [LeeF]
ACTION LeeF: to ask WSDL WG to review WSDL 1.1 SPARQL protocol stuff, once it is available. [DONE]
15:36:27 [DanC]
8 Nov conflicts with ISWC. but none of us is going, evidently.
15:36:46 [LeeF]
ACTION: EricP to fix test schema to match manifest with negative tests [recorded in 09/27-dawg-minutes.html#action16]] [CONTINUED]
15:37:16 [EliasT]
earlier, please.
15:37:30 [LeeF]
ACTION: DanC to follow up re optional test based on op:dateTime triple [CONTINUED]
15:37:37 [EliasT]
14:30Z works for me
15:37:46 [LeeF]
ACTION: EricP to respond to "Security Considerations" comment [CONTINUED]
15:37:54 [patH]
for the record, Im OK with either time.
15:38:03 [LeeF]
ACTION: ericP to respond to isURI poorly named [CONTINUED]
15:38:12 [DanC]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:38:12 [Zakim]
On the phone I see AndyS, DanC, PatH, Jeen, Kendall_Clark, LeeF, EliasT (muted)
15:38:20 [LeeF]
ACTION: KendallC to remove uses of "my" in URIs in protocol spec [CONTINUED]
15:38:55 [LeeF]
ACTION DaveB: add to test suite the temperature case from comment on truth tables in commentor's message [CONTINUED]
15:39:04 [LeeF]
ACTION: AndyS to Update grammar inline with value testing decision [CONTINUED]
15:39:16 [AndyS]
Action done!
15:39:30 [EliasT]
Zakim, unmute me
15:39:30 [Zakim]
EliasT should no longer be muted
15:39:35 [LeeF]
sorry, AndyS
15:39:37 [LeeF]
action - 10
15:39:45 [LeeF]
nice
15:40:00 [LeeF]
ACTION ericP: to update sop:isIRI to include the "isuri" synonym [CONTINUED]
15:40:09 [DanC]
PROPSED: to meet next 8 Nov 14:30Z...
15:40:15 [DanC]
Zakim, pick a scribe
15:40:15 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose PatH
15:40:52 [DanC]
RESOLVED: to meet next 8 Nov 14:30Z, JanneS to scribe
15:40:57 [LeeF]
. Scribe for Nov 8 at 14:30Z - Janne
15:41:11 [DanC]
note pre-AC publication cut-off of 21 Nov
15:41:26 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
15:41:26 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Note on querying lists" taken up [from DanC]
15:41:50 [kendall]
boo hiss
15:42:23 [kendall]
w3c should make it *easy* for WGs to publish these kinds of things, IMO
15:42:40 [DanC]
sotd of WSDL 1.1 thingy http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-sprot11-20051024/
15:44:13 [kendall]
have we tried to judge consensus on the technical approach?
15:44:23 [kendall]
seems like we have it, more or less
15:44:23 [LeeF]
AndyS: Would like to see something done about querying trees - put something in general DAWG space?
15:45:05 [LeeF]
kendall: would like to see as a Note; no cycles to spare.
15:45:41 [LeeF]
DanC: critical mass to work on on WG time
15:45:47 [DanC]
tx for advice
15:45:49 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
15:45:49 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "protocol testing update" taken up [from DanC]
15:45:54 [franconi]
franconi has joined #dawg
15:46:30 [DanC]
ACTION: Jeen try to reproduces EliasT's protocol testing results [CONTINUES]
15:46:33 [franconi]
I can join the phone conf. only later :-(
15:46:38 [DanC]
roger, franconi
15:46:40 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
15:46:40 [Zakim]
agendum 4 was just opened, DanC
15:46:46 [DanC]
Zakim, close item 4
15:46:46 [Zakim]
agendum 4, protocol testing update, closed
15:46:47 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:46:48 [Zakim]
5. SPARQL Protocol and WSDL [from DanC]
15:46:49 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
15:46:49 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "SPARQL Protocol and WSDL" taken up [from DanC]
15:47:13 [DanC]
ACTION KC: review sparql-types for xs:any weirdness, w.r.t. WSDL 2.0 constraints [CONTINUES]
15:47:32 [DanC]
ACTION: DanC to notifty DAWG of WSDL response to our WSDL comments [PENDING]
15:47:56 [DanC]
ACTION: KendallC to Send review of SPARQL protocol spec from WS-Desc to DAWG list. [DONE]
15:48:05 [kendall]
I *think* there have been some proposals re: our pending issue, but I haven't read them yet.
15:48:36 [DanC]
(I should mark the wsdlProtocol issue open, shouldn't I?_
15:48:38 [DanC]
)
15:49:39 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
15:49:39 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "Security Considerations" taken up [from DanC]
15:49:59 [DanC]
ACTION: KendallC to add a modified version of http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#security to protocol editor's draft, as well as a pointer to the section in rq23 itself [CONTINUES]
15:50:09 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
15:50:09 [Zakim]
agendum 6 was just opened, DanC
15:50:18 [DanC]
Zakim, close item 6
15:50:18 [Zakim]
agendum 6, Security Considerations, closed
15:50:19 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:50:20 [Zakim]
7. issues#rdfSemantics [from DanC]
15:50:21 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
15:50:21 [Zakim]
agendum 7. "issues#rdfSemantics" taken up [from DanC]
15:50:58 [franconi]
can we have this item as the last point, so I can join?
15:51:23 [franconi]
(unless it ialready the last :-)
15:51:25 [DanC]
agenda order = 8, 7
15:51:31 [DanC]
Zakim, agenda order = 8, 7
15:51:31 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'agenda order = 8, 7', DanC
15:51:37 [DanC]
Zakim, take up item 8
15:51:37 [Zakim]
agendum 8. "Toward CR" taken up [from DanC]
15:53:15 [LeeF]
DanC: When is the next time we should publish QL spec?
15:54:06 [LeeF]
AndyS: non-LC publication before 21 Nov despite pending editorial issues
15:54:41 [kendall]
+1
15:55:05 [LeeF]
patH: delay decision on publish of QL pending outcome of semantics issue?
15:56:39 [LeeF]
DanC: Because last publish was a LC publish, would like to do section-by-section change summary
15:57:35 [LeeF]
DanC: Will aim for publishing *something* before 21 Nov
15:58:57 [LeeF]
DanC: Charter puts forth closure method for querying graphs - might have to vote against parametrized entailment
15:59:25 [LeeF]
patH: if we restrict to lower than OWL entailment, than it's equivalent to closure and could fall within charter
15:59:31 [LeeF]
(please correct me if I'm summarizing wrong!)
15:59:39 [DanC]
(we're leaking into issues#rdfSemantics ... note, enrico, call in asap pls)
16:00:18 [enricofranconi]
enricofranconi has joined #dawg
16:00:25 [LeeF]
DanC: need OWL worker example in our test cases -- will it be "extra credit" or standardized?
16:01:13 [Zakim]
+ +39.320.922.aaaa
16:01:17 [enricofranconi]
that's me
16:01:27 [LeeF]
zakim, 39.320.922.aaaa is enricofranconi
16:01:27 [Zakim]
sorry, LeeF, I do not recognize a party named '39.320.922.aaaa'
16:01:36 [LeeF]
zakim, +39.320.922.aaaa is enricofranconi
16:01:36 [Zakim]
+enricofranconi; got it
16:02:06 [enricofranconi]
I've just sent a reply to Pat's messages on the semantics to the list
16:03:07 [kendall]
just trying to get all the procedural aspects sorted out in my head
16:03:27 [LeeF]
DanC: WG members should look for publication decision around Nov 8 or Nov 15
16:03:48 [Zakim]
-enricofranconi
16:04:36 [Zakim]
+enricofranconi
16:05:06 [LeeF]
DanC: can probably do two spread out press releases during CR during the month of _______ (noun) ?
16:07:33 [DanC]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/weekly-agenda
16:10:16 [LeeF]
DanC: looks for flag bearers for pending and open LC comments
16:11:39 [DanC]
Zakim, pick a victim
16:11:39 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Kendall_Clark
16:12:38 [LeeF]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2005Sep/0013
16:13:53 [DanC]
audit is in http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/weekly-agenda
16:19:18 [kendall]
And if we add more protocol operations in the future, which seems at least *possible*, you end up with even *more* WSDL operations and bindings.
16:19:59 [DanC]
Zakim, take up item 7
16:19:59 [Zakim]
agendum 7. "issues#rdfSemantics" taken up [from DanC]
16:20:16 [LeeF]
DanC: Would like non-editor support in responding to LC comments
16:23:05 [EliasT]
+1
16:27:01 [kendall]
well, that leaking can be devilishly useful, modulo other problems
16:27:35 [kendall]
for my $$, a cleaner solution would have been to add subqueries, a la iTQL and others
16:27:35 [DanC]
(I gather the + 1 was re "we could adjourn and let pat and enrico talk)
16:28:30 [AndyS]
Subqueries don't work if you can't construct the subquery without knowing the first result (e.g. one of Ron's example on collections)
16:28:31 [DanC]
(time draws near)
16:28:51 [kendall]
hmm
16:29:59 [AndyS]
{ ?x foaf:mbox <mailto:Xyz> . optional { ?x foaf:name ?name } }
16:30:32 [AndyS]
Subqueries don't do transitivity needed for list tail.
16:31:24 [Zakim]
-EliasT
16:32:25 [AndyS]
The <_:abc> form would be a non-std way to do it. And only apply for abstract syntax mode not entailment (RDF, RDFS, OWL)
16:32:46 [AndyS]
Needs also Result Set format tweak.
16:33:25 [DanC]
ADJOURN.
16:33:59 [LeeF]
DanC -- if you can run the magic when you have a chance, I'll clean up and mail out the minutes.
16:34:01 [kendall]
i'm not entirely clear how this interacts with entailment, OWL or otherwise.
16:34:01 [DanC]
LeeF, do you have what you need to produce a record of today's meeting and mail it to the WG in a day or so?
16:34:08 [DanC]
RRSAgent, make logs world-access
16:34:26 [DanC]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:34:26 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/11/01-dawg-minutes.html DanC
16:34:37 [LeeF]
thanks kindly
16:35:50 [Zakim]
-DanC
16:36:42 [LeeF]
zakim, list attendees
16:36:42 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been AndyS, DanC, PatH, Kendall_Clark, Jeen, LeeF, EliasT, enricofranconi
16:36:47 [LeeF]
thanks, zakim
16:37:25 [LeeF]
Chair: DanC
16:40:29 [Zakim]
-Jeen
16:40:35 [LeeF]
goodbye, jeen
16:43:29 [Zakim]
-AndyS
16:45:02 [kendall]
zakim, mute me
16:45:02 [Zakim]
Kendall_Clark should now be muted
16:45:22 [DanC]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:45:25 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/11/01-dawg-minutes.html DanC
16:45:54 [DanC]
Lee, you have to do that again if you want it to notice your later Chair: note
16:46:01 [LeeF]
I know - I did the Chair: line and then abandoned it and just did it by hand =)
16:46:11 [LeeF]
thanks though
16:46:12 [DanC]
ok
16:46:27 [kendall]
later guys
16:46:31 [Zakim]
-Kendall_Clark
17:00:47 [Zakim]
-LeeF
17:00:49 [Zakim]
-enricofranconi
17:00:50 [Zakim]
-PatH
17:00:51 [Zakim]
SW_DAWG()9:30AM has ended
17:00:52 [Zakim]
Attendees were AndyS, DanC, PatH, Kendall_Clark, Jeen, LeeF, EliasT, enricofranconi
18:46:06 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #dawg
19:31:56 [LeeF]
Do we have any tests that use CONSTRUCT queries rather than SELECT queries?
19:32:10 [LeeF]
(I don't see any on http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/ )