IRC log of dawg on 2005-11-01

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:40:03 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #dawg

14:40:03 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/11/01-dawg-irc

14:40:03 [Zakim]

ok, DanC; that matches SW_DAWG()9:30AM

14:40:06 [AndyS]

zakim, who is on the phone?

14:40:06 [Zakim]

On the phone I see ??P1

14:40:12 [AndyS]

zakim, ??P1 is AndyS

14:40:12 [Zakim]

+AndyS; got it

14:40:13 [Zakim]

+DanC

14:40:28 [AndyS]

DanC - NP - it's just me at the moment :-/

14:45:27 [Zakim]

-DanC

14:45:29 [Zakim]

-AndyS

14:45:31 [Zakim]

SW_DAWG()9:30AM has ended

14:45:32 [Zakim]

Attendees were AndyS, DanC

14:51:00 [LeeF]

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14:51:08 [LeeF]

g'day, everyone

14:57:27 [Zakim]

SW_DAWG()9:30AM has now started

14:57:34 [Zakim]

+[IBMCambridge]

14:57:35 [Zakim]

-[IBMCambridge]

14:57:35 [Zakim]

SW_DAWG()9:30AM has ended

14:57:36 [Zakim]

Attendees were [IBMCambridge]

14:59:06 [DanC]

hi Lee.

14:59:21 [DanC]

DanC has changed the topic to: DAWG 1 Nov. Try again at 10:30aET / 15:30Z

15:00:33 [LeeF]

howdy, sorry for the time change foul up

15:01:20 [DanC]

more my fault than yours, really

15:02:11 [LeeF]

Well, I read the "note the time change" part of the agenda, but was rather ET-centric in my interpretation of what it might mean

15:03:43 [AndyS]

AndyS has joined #dawg

15:12:10 [jeen]

jeen has joined #dawg

15:13:41 [jeen]

oh crud. completely forgot the daylight savings thingy.

15:15:55 [DanC]

you're not alone, jeen

15:21:23 [Zakim]

SW_DAWG()9:30AM has now started

15:21:28 [Zakim]

SW_DAWG()9:30AM has ended

15:21:29 [Zakim]

Attendees were

15:24:55 [kendall]

kendall has joined #dawg

15:29:14 [Zakim]

SW_DAWG()9:30AM has now started

15:29:21 [Zakim]

+??P2

15:29:29 [AndyS]

zakim, ??P2 is AndyS

15:29:29 [Zakim]

+AndyS; got it

15:29:53 [Zakim]

+DanC

15:30:06 [Zakim]

+PatH

15:30:20 [DanC]

agenda + Convene, take roll, review records and agenda

15:30:29 [DanC]

agenda + next meeting

15:30:34 [Zakim]

+??P5

15:30:44 [DanC]

agenda + Note on querying lists

15:30:47 [Zakim]

+Kendall_Clark

15:30:58 [jeen]

zakim, ??P5 is Jeen

15:30:58 [Zakim]

+Jeen; got it

15:31:06 [LeeF]

zakim, [IBMCambridge] is LeeF

15:31:06 [Zakim]

sorry, LeeF, I do not recognize a party named '[IBMCambridge]'

15:31:07 [DanC]

agenda + protocol testing update

15:31:08 [Zakim]

+[IBMCambridge]

15:31:11 [patH]

patH has joined #dawg

15:31:14 [LeeF]

zakim, [IBMCambridge] is LeeF

15:31:14 [Zakim]

+LeeF; got it

15:31:15 [DanC]

agenda + SPARQL Protocol and WSDL

15:31:21 [DanC]

agenda + Security Considerations

15:31:26 [Zakim]

+Elias_Torres

15:31:27 [DanC]

agenda + issues#rdfSemantics

15:31:33 [DanC]

agenda + Toward CR

15:31:42 [DanC]

Zakim, take up item 1

15:31:42 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "Convene, take roll, review records and agenda" taken up [from DanC]

15:31:49 [DanC]

Zakim, who's on the phone?

15:31:49 [Zakim]

On the phone I see AndyS, DanC, PatH, Jeen, Kendall_Clark, LeeF, Elias_Torres

15:32:31 [DanC]

Zakim, pick a scribe

15:32:31 [Zakim]

Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Kendall_Clark

15:32:35 [DanC]

Zakim, pick a scribe

15:32:35 [Zakim]

Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Elias_Torres

15:32:50 [EliasT]

EliasT has joined #dawg

15:32:59 [DanC]

Zakim, pick a scribe

15:32:59 [Zakim]

Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose LeeF

15:33:04 [EliasT]

Zakim, who's on the phone?

15:33:04 [Zakim]

On the phone I see AndyS, DanC, PatH, Jeen, Kendall_Clark, LeeF, Elias_Torres

15:33:07 [DanC]

Scribe: LeeF

15:33:13 [EliasT]

Zakim, Elias_Torres is EliasT

15:33:13 [Zakim]

+EliasT; got it

15:33:18 [kendall]

I'll help Lee

15:33:23 [LeeF]

aww thanks, kendall

15:33:27 [DanC]

regrets: EricP, Jos, Janne

15:33:31 [DanC]

DanC has changed the topic to: DAWG 1 Nov

15:33:50 [DanC]

-> http://www.w3.org/2005/10/25-dawg-minutes minutes 25 Oct

15:33:57 [DanC]

RESOLVED to accept

15:34:08 [EliasT]

Zakim, mute me please

15:34:08 [Zakim]

EliasT should now be muted

15:34:16 [LeeF]

RESOLVED to accept http://www.w3.org/2005/10/25-dawg-minutes minutes 25 Oct as true record

15:34:25 [DanC]

ACTION: AndyS to Update grammar inline with value testing decision [DONE]

15:34:28 [DanC]

7 others cont

15:34:50 [LeeF]

ACTION DanC: publish WSDL 1.1 sparql protocol note, contingent on thumbs-up from KC, EricP, Lee/Elias. [DONE]

15:35:15 [LeeF]

LeeF to ask WSDL WG to review WSDL 1.1 SPARQL protocol stuff, once it is available. [DONE]

15:35:22 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

15:35:22 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "next meeting" taken up [from DanC]

15:35:25 [LeeF]

ACTION LeeF to ask WSDL WG to review WSDL 1.1 SPARQL protocol stuff, once it is available. [DONE]

15:35:46 [LeeF]

I'll get this right, eventually. Sorry for spamming IRC

15:35:56 [LeeF]

ACTION LeeF: to ask WSDL WG to review WSDL 1.1 SPARQL protocol stuff, once it is available. [DONE]

15:36:27 [DanC]

8 Nov conflicts with ISWC. but none of us is going, evidently.

15:36:46 [LeeF]

ACTION: EricP to fix test schema to match manifest with negative tests [recorded in 09/27-dawg-minutes.html#action16]] [CONTINUED]

15:37:16 [EliasT]

earlier, please.

15:37:30 [LeeF]

ACTION: DanC to follow up re optional test based on op:dateTime triple [CONTINUED]

15:37:37 [EliasT]

14:30Z works for me

15:37:46 [LeeF]

ACTION: EricP to respond to "Security Considerations" comment [CONTINUED]

15:37:54 [patH]

for the record, Im OK with either time.

15:38:03 [LeeF]

ACTION: ericP to respond to isURI poorly named [CONTINUED]

15:38:12 [DanC]

Zakim, who's on the phone?

15:38:12 [Zakim]

On the phone I see AndyS, DanC, PatH, Jeen, Kendall_Clark, LeeF, EliasT (muted)

15:38:20 [LeeF]

ACTION: KendallC to remove uses of "my" in URIs in protocol spec [CONTINUED]

15:38:55 [LeeF]

ACTION DaveB: add to test suite the temperature case from comment on truth tables in commentor's message [CONTINUED]

15:39:04 [LeeF]

ACTION: AndyS to Update grammar inline with value testing decision [CONTINUED]

15:39:16 [AndyS]

Action done!

15:39:30 [EliasT]

Zakim, unmute me

15:39:30 [Zakim]

EliasT should no longer be muted

15:39:35 [LeeF]

sorry, AndyS

15:39:37 [LeeF]

action - 10

15:39:45 [LeeF]

nice

15:40:00 [LeeF]

ACTION ericP: to update sop:isIRI to include the "isuri" synonym [CONTINUED]

15:40:09 [DanC]

PROPSED: to meet next 8 Nov 14:30Z...

15:40:15 [DanC]

Zakim, pick a scribe

15:40:15 [Zakim]

Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose PatH

15:40:52 [DanC]

RESOLVED: to meet next 8 Nov 14:30Z, JanneS to scribe

15:40:57 [LeeF]

. Scribe for Nov 8 at 14:30Z - Janne

15:41:11 [DanC]

note pre-AC publication cut-off of 21 Nov

15:41:26 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

15:41:26 [Zakim]

agendum 3. "Note on querying lists" taken up [from DanC]

15:41:50 [kendall]

boo hiss

15:42:23 [kendall]

w3c should make it *easy* for WGs to publish these kinds of things, IMO

15:42:40 [DanC]

sotd of WSDL 1.1 thingy http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-sprot11-20051024/

15:44:13 [kendall]

have we tried to judge consensus on the technical approach?

15:44:23 [kendall]

seems like we have it, more or less

15:44:23 [LeeF]

AndyS: Would like to see something done about querying trees - put something in general DAWG space?

15:45:05 [LeeF]

kendall: would like to see as a Note; no cycles to spare.

15:45:41 [LeeF]

DanC: critical mass to work on on WG time

15:45:47 [DanC]

tx for advice

15:45:49 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

15:45:49 [Zakim]

agendum 4. "protocol testing update" taken up [from DanC]

15:45:54 [franconi]

franconi has joined #dawg

15:46:30 [DanC]

ACTION: Jeen try to reproduces EliasT's protocol testing results [CONTINUES]

15:46:33 [franconi]

I can join the phone conf. only later :-(

15:46:38 [DanC]

roger, franconi

15:46:40 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

15:46:40 [Zakim]

agendum 4 was just opened, DanC

15:46:46 [DanC]

Zakim, close item 4

15:46:46 [Zakim]

agendum 4, protocol testing update, closed

15:46:47 [Zakim]

I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:46:48 [Zakim]

5. SPARQL Protocol and WSDL [from DanC]

15:46:49 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

15:46:49 [Zakim]

agendum 5. "SPARQL Protocol and WSDL" taken up [from DanC]

15:47:13 [DanC]

ACTION KC: review sparql-types for xs:any weirdness, w.r.t. WSDL 2.0 constraints [CONTINUES]

15:47:32 [DanC]

ACTION: DanC to notifty DAWG of WSDL response to our WSDL comments [PENDING]

15:47:56 [DanC]

ACTION: KendallC to Send review of SPARQL protocol spec from WS-Desc to DAWG list. [DONE]

15:48:05 [kendall]

I *think* there have been some proposals re: our pending issue, but I haven't read them yet.

15:48:36 [DanC]

(I should mark the wsdlProtocol issue open, shouldn't I?_

15:48:38 [DanC]

)

15:49:39 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

15:49:39 [Zakim]

agendum 6. "Security Considerations" taken up [from DanC]

15:49:59 [DanC]

ACTION: KendallC to add a modified version of http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#security to protocol editor's draft, as well as a pointer to the section in rq23 itself [CONTINUES]

15:50:09 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

15:50:09 [Zakim]

agendum 6 was just opened, DanC

15:50:18 [DanC]

Zakim, close item 6

15:50:18 [Zakim]

agendum 6, Security Considerations, closed

15:50:19 [Zakim]

I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:50:20 [Zakim]

7. issues#rdfSemantics [from DanC]

15:50:21 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

15:50:21 [Zakim]

agendum 7. "issues#rdfSemantics" taken up [from DanC]

15:50:58 [franconi]

can we have this item as the last point, so I can join?

15:51:23 [franconi]

(unless it ialready the last :-)

15:51:25 [DanC]

agenda order = 8, 7

15:51:31 [DanC]

Zakim, agenda order = 8, 7

15:51:31 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'agenda order = 8, 7', DanC

15:51:37 [DanC]

Zakim, take up item 8

15:51:37 [Zakim]

agendum 8. "Toward CR" taken up [from DanC]

15:53:15 [LeeF]

DanC: When is the next time we should publish QL spec?

15:54:06 [LeeF]

AndyS: non-LC publication before 21 Nov despite pending editorial issues

15:54:41 [kendall]

+1

15:55:05 [LeeF]

patH: delay decision on publish of QL pending outcome of semantics issue?

15:56:39 [LeeF]

DanC: Because last publish was a LC publish, would like to do section-by-section change summary

15:57:35 [LeeF]

DanC: Will aim for publishing *something* before 21 Nov

15:58:57 [LeeF]

DanC: Charter puts forth closure method for querying graphs - might have to vote against parametrized entailment

15:59:25 [LeeF]

patH: if we restrict to lower than OWL entailment, than it's equivalent to closure and could fall within charter

15:59:31 [LeeF]

(please correct me if I'm summarizing wrong!)

15:59:39 [DanC]

(we're leaking into issues#rdfSemantics ... note, enrico, call in asap pls)

16:00:18 [enricofranconi]

enricofranconi has joined #dawg

16:00:25 [LeeF]

DanC: need OWL worker example in our test cases -- will it be "extra credit" or standardized?

16:01:13 [Zakim]

+ +39.320.922.aaaa

16:01:17 [enricofranconi]

that's me

16:01:27 [LeeF]

zakim, 39.320.922.aaaa is enricofranconi

16:01:27 [Zakim]

sorry, LeeF, I do not recognize a party named '39.320.922.aaaa'

16:01:36 [LeeF]

zakim, +39.320.922.aaaa is enricofranconi

16:01:36 [Zakim]

+enricofranconi; got it

16:02:06 [enricofranconi]

I've just sent a reply to Pat's messages on the semantics to the list

16:03:07 [kendall]

just trying to get all the procedural aspects sorted out in my head

16:03:27 [LeeF]

DanC: WG members should look for publication decision around Nov 8 or Nov 15

16:03:48 [Zakim]

-enricofranconi

16:04:36 [Zakim]

+enricofranconi

16:05:06 [LeeF]

DanC: can probably do two spread out press releases during CR during the month of _______ (noun) ?

16:07:33 [DanC]

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/weekly-agenda

16:10:16 [LeeF]

DanC: looks for flag bearers for pending and open LC comments

16:11:39 [DanC]

Zakim, pick a victim

16:11:39 [Zakim]

Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Kendall_Clark

16:12:38 [LeeF]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2005Sep/0013

16:13:53 [DanC]

audit is in http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/weekly-agenda

16:19:18 [kendall]

And if we add more protocol operations in the future, which seems at least *possible*, you end up with even *more* WSDL operations and bindings.

16:19:59 [DanC]

Zakim, take up item 7

16:19:59 [Zakim]

agendum 7. "issues#rdfSemantics" taken up [from DanC]

16:20:16 [LeeF]

DanC: Would like non-editor support in responding to LC comments

16:23:05 [EliasT]

+1

16:27:01 [kendall]

well, that leaking can be devilishly useful, modulo other problems

16:27:35 [kendall]

for my $$, a cleaner solution would have been to add subqueries, a la iTQL and others

16:27:35 [DanC]

(I gather the + 1 was re "we could adjourn and let pat and enrico talk)

16:28:30 [AndyS]

Subqueries don't work if you can't construct the subquery without knowing the first result (e.g. one of Ron's example on collections)

16:28:31 [DanC]

(time draws near)

16:28:51 [kendall]

hmm

16:29:59 [AndyS]

{ ?x foaf:mbox <mailto:Xyz> . optional { ?x foaf:name ?name } }

16:30:32 [AndyS]

Subqueries don't do transitivity needed for list tail.

16:31:24 [Zakim]

-EliasT

16:32:25 [AndyS]

The <_:abc> form would be a non-std way to do it. And only apply for abstract syntax mode not entailment (RDF, RDFS, OWL)

16:32:46 [AndyS]

Needs also Result Set format tweak.

16:33:25 [DanC]

ADJOURN.

16:33:59 [LeeF]

DanC -- if you can run the magic when you have a chance, I'll clean up and mail out the minutes.

16:34:01 [kendall]

i'm not entirely clear how this interacts with entailment, OWL or otherwise.

16:34:01 [DanC]

LeeF, do you have what you need to produce a record of today's meeting and mail it to the WG in a day or so?

16:34:08 [DanC]

RRSAgent, make logs world-access

16:34:26 [DanC]

RRSAgent, please draft minutes

16:34:26 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/11/01-dawg-minutes.html DanC

16:34:37 [LeeF]

thanks kindly

16:35:50 [Zakim]

-DanC

16:36:42 [LeeF]

zakim, list attendees

16:36:42 [Zakim]

As of this point the attendees have been AndyS, DanC, PatH, Kendall_Clark, Jeen, LeeF, EliasT, enricofranconi

16:36:47 [LeeF]

thanks, zakim

16:37:25 [LeeF]

Chair: DanC

16:40:29 [Zakim]

-Jeen

16:40:35 [LeeF]

goodbye, jeen

16:43:29 [Zakim]

-AndyS

16:45:02 [kendall]

zakim, mute me

16:45:02 [Zakim]

Kendall_Clark should now be muted

16:45:22 [DanC]

RRSAgent, please draft minutes

16:45:25 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/11/01-dawg-minutes.html DanC

16:45:54 [DanC]

Lee, you have to do that again if you want it to notice your later Chair: note

16:46:01 [LeeF]

I know - I did the Chair: line and then abandoned it and just did it by hand =)

16:46:11 [LeeF]

thanks though

16:46:12 [DanC]

ok

16:46:27 [kendall]

later guys

16:46:31 [Zakim]

-Kendall_Clark

17:00:47 [Zakim]

-LeeF

17:00:49 [Zakim]

-enricofranconi

17:00:50 [Zakim]

-PatH

17:00:51 [Zakim]

SW_DAWG()9:30AM has ended

17:00:52 [Zakim]

Attendees were AndyS, DanC, PatH, Kendall_Clark, Jeen, LeeF, EliasT, enricofranconi

18:46:06 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #dawg

19:31:56 [LeeF]

Do we have any tests that use CONSTRUCT queries rather than SELECT queries?

19:32:10 [LeeF]

(I don't see any on http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/ )