12:17:08 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #eo
12:17:08 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/10/21-eo-irc
12:17:15 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #eo
12:17:25 <Justin> zakim, this will be ewog
12:17:25 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled near this time, Justin
12:17:30 <Justin> zakim, this will be eowg
12:17:30 <Zakim> ok, Justin; I see WAI_EOWG()8:30AM scheduled to start in 13 minutes
12:17:42 <Justin> Meeting: EOWG
12:17:52 <Justin> Chair: Judy
12:18:06 <Justin> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-eo/2005OctDec/0046.html
12:18:22 <pasquale> pasquale has joined #eo
12:18:51 <pasquale> hi all, good morning ;-)
12:22:12 <George> George has joined #eo
12:27:19 <judy_dc> judy_dc has joined #eo
12:28:50 <Zakim> WAI_EOWG()8:30AM has now started
12:28:53 <Harvey> Harvey has joined #eo
12:28:54 <shawn> shawn has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-eo/2005OctDec/0046.html
12:28:57 <Zakim> +Jack
12:29:59 <Zakim> +Judy
12:30:21 <Zakim> +Bingham
12:30:50 <Zakim> +George_Heake
12:31:17 <Zakim> +Justin_Thorp
12:31:59 <Justin> zakim, please mute me
12:31:59 <Zakim> Justin_Thorp should now be muted
12:32:01 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
12:32:14 <Jack> Jack has joined #eo
12:32:42 <Zakim> +Loughborough
12:33:00 <pasquale> zakim IPcaller is pasquale
12:33:42 <Justin> zakim, IPcaller is Pasquale
12:33:42 <Zakim> +Pasquale; got it
12:33:43 <shawn> zakim, IPcaller is pasquale
12:33:44 <Zakim> sorry, shawn, I do not recognize a party named 'IPcaller'
12:33:47 <shawn> :-)
12:33:53 <Zakim> +??P7
12:33:58 <LiamM> LiamM has joined #eo
12:34:20 <Wayne> zakim, ??p7 is wayne
12:34:20 <Zakim> +wayne; got it
12:34:35 <LiamM> having problems with getting onto Zakim... will keep trying. In the meantime am here on irc
12:34:46 <Zakim> +Shawn
12:35:11 <Zakim> +Helle
12:35:35 <Zakim> +Liam
12:36:51 <Wayne> zakim, ??p7 is wayne
12:36:51 <Zakim> I already had ??P7 as wayne, Wayne
12:36:59 <shawn> scribe: Jack
12:37:10 <shawn> scribenick: Jack
12:37:58 <judy_dc> zakim, who's here?
12:37:59 <Zakim> On the phone I see Jack, Judy, Bingham, George_Heake, Justin_Thorp (muted), Pasquale, Loughborough, wayne, Shawn, Helle, Liam
12:38:01 <Zakim> On IRC I see LiamM, Jack, Harvey, judy_dc, George, pasquale, Zakim, RRSAgent, Wayne, shawn, Justin
12:38:34 <pasquale> zakim, please mute me
12:38:34 <Zakim> Pasquale should now be muted
12:39:44 <shawn> minor question on Involving Users in Web Accessibility Evaluation: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-eo/2005OctDec/0052.html
12:39:56 <Jack> Topic: Review of agenda and add new items
12:39:58 <LiamM> Tanguy is also present
12:40:35 <shawn> present: Jack, Judy, Bingham, George_Heake, Justin_Thorp, Pasquale, Loughborough, wayne, Shawn, Helle, Liam, Tanguy
12:43:17 <Jack> Judy: Agenda will include Outreach updates, Evaluation Tools for Web Accessibility - search/sort, business case promotion
12:43:42 <Jack> Topic: outreach update
12:45:12 <Jack> William: Very encouraging that Europen approach is in harmony with W3C  material
12:46:05 <Jack> Judy: Encourages people to read the material from Barry 
12:47:09 <Jack> TongO: Talks about memo to memo webmasters that deals with accessibility
12:47:57 <Jack> Judy: Will 92 criteria be maintained as European standards issued?
12:48:21 <Jack> Togan: Not sure
12:48:48 <shawn> s/Togan/Tanguy
12:49:46 <shawn> minor question on Involving Users in Web Accessibility Evaluation: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-eo/2005OctDec/0052.html
12:50:01 <Jack> Topic: Call for review on Users in Web Accessibility Evaluation
12:51:23 <Jack> Shawn: Appreciates feedback. Has question about Optimizing Usability Testing for Accessibility Issues
12:53:52 <Jack> Shawn: Should the note be up in the page contents since it is not a major focus of the document
12:55:55 <Jack> Shawn: Should this be an H2? What should the text of the heading be?
12:56:33 <Jack> Liam: Minor question. Leave as is.
12:56:55 <Jack> George: Agrees with Liam to leave as is.
12:56:57 <pasquale> i like as it is
13:00:26 <LiamM> Liam suggests that the word 'formal' be included in the text linking to the note.
13:00:29 <LiamM> Shawn agrees
13:00:43 <Jack> Jack has joined #eo
13:01:05 <Jack> scribe: jack
13:01:57 <Jack> Topic: evaluation tools for web sort
13:02:06 <Wayne> zakim, mute me
13:02:06 <Zakim> wayne should now be muted
13:02:43 <shawn> ACTION: shawn, Involving Users doc: within the main text, include the word "Formal" in the link "usability tests can be optimized". leave Optimising for UT as <h3> with current wording
13:04:07 <Jack> Judy: Postpone this until next Friday
13:04:32 <LiamM> zakim, mute me
13:04:32 <Zakim> sorry, LiamM, I do not see a party named 'LiamM'
13:05:24 <Wayne> zakim, mute me
13:05:24 <Zakim> wayne was already muted, Wayne
13:06:05 <Jack> Topic: Business Case Promotion
13:06:43 <shawn> zakim, Liam is LiamM
13:06:43 <Zakim> +LiamM; got it
13:09:17 <Wayne> Wayne has joined #eo
13:09:31 <Jack> Judy: Gives background. Worked on several years. The approach was one of building your own. Is still the level of interest? Have people heard that it is being used? Are people using it in their organization or outreach efforts?
13:09:33 <Wayne> zakim, mute me
13:09:33 <Zakim> wayne was already muted, Wayne
13:10:40 <Jack> George: Sent it on listserve and presented to educators. Response has been very positive.
13:11:34 <pasquale> zakim, please unmute me
13:11:34 <Zakim> Pasquale should no longer be muted
13:12:52 <Jack> Shawn: Based on feedback on web. Responses are positive but some say it is long. 
13:13:39 <Jack> Judy: Other responses or experiences?
13:14:50 <pasquale> zakim, please mute me
13:14:50 <Zakim> Pasquale should now be muted
13:14:50 <pasquale> zakim, please mute me
13:14:50 <pasquale> zakim, please mute me
13:14:51 <Zakim> Pasquale was already muted, pasquale
13:14:53 <Zakim> Pasquale was already muted, pasquale
13:15:07 <Jack> Judy: How could it made more useable? Would a slide set help? Perhaps a demo?
13:16:06 <Jack> Shawn: Perhaps an article or something to put in a newletter?
13:16:47 <Jack> Jack: That would be useful.
13:21:10 <Wayne> zakim, unmute me
13:21:10 <Zakim> wayne was not muted, Wayne
13:21:52 <Jack> Jack:  Could be useful especially for an organization that is large, decentralized and encounters web accessibility at different times
13:22:47 <Justin> zakim, please unmute me
13:22:47 <Zakim> Justin_Thorp should no longer be muted
13:23:08 <Jack> Wayne: Can also be useful for a university system
13:23:39 <Jack> Judy: How can it be used?
13:25:10 <Jack> Wayne: Will look at issues dealing with policy and process issue. May need to add a section on 'How to get started?'
13:27:36 <Jack> William: This document is for those where the wall have already been kicked down. There is a need for a document that helps to knock the walls in the first place.
13:28:20 <Jack> Judy: Can you clarify? 
13:29:59 <Jack> William: Many places are still not ready to recognize that they have accesssibility needs
13:30:55 <pasquale> zakim, please unmute me
13:30:55 <Zakim> Pasquale should no longer be muted
13:31:11 <Jack> Judy:  Other reactions to Wayne's comments
13:31:24 <pasquale> soory seems my mic dont work
13:31:35 <pasquale> zakim, please unmute me
13:31:35 <Zakim> Pasquale was not muted, pasquale
13:33:41 <Jack> George: In middle of a K-12 competition. The business model may be useful, especially with community colleges
13:35:51 <Jack> Justin: University system in Michigan is similar to what Wayne describes. May also have uses with particular classes and help students understand case for accessibility
13:37:03 <Jack> Judy: Are there additional things we could do to make this useable? Such as an introduction.
13:38:46 <Jack> Judy:  Perhaps articles. Perhaps case studies - though this might be too labor intensive
13:39:40 <Jack> Shawn: Perhaps a slide set. This could provide a lot of use for minimal effort
13:40:15 <Jack> Judy: Lets focus of the idea of a slide set for right now
13:41:36 <Jack> George: A slide set would be a good idea. Perhaps links to case studie
13:42:18 <Jack> George: Perhaps links to examples
13:42:37 <shawn> (doh, just found a comma missing in the business case :/
13:43:11 <Jack> Judy: It would be great to meet that goal but need to maintain vendor neutrality
13:43:58 <shawn> George: ...graphical...
13:44:43 <Jack> Shawn: Clarifies George's comment that examples of particular issues
13:45:50 <Jack> Wayne: Thinks slide set is a good idea, but it needs to be accessible
13:45:55 <shawn> (discussion on how it fits in the process, what you do first)
13:46:58 <pasquale> sorry, my mic doesn't work, i'll send email to the list with my experiences about it ;-(
13:47:19 <shawn> q+ to say we need that 3 carrots & a stick image.
13:47:59 <Jack> Liam: Can be useful but we probably make up our own sets of slides depending on client and especially their acceptance of the need for accessibility and hostility
13:48:30 <pasquale> ok
13:48:43 <Jack> Judy: The more resistence of the audience the more that data is needed?
13:50:03 <Jack> Judy: Slides may be the best low effort and return item. Is there a better approach than a mini-slide set.
13:50:43 <pasquale> on Sept 6, I gave a 4 hours talk about
13:50:43 <pasquale> "Web accessibility: opportunities and rules". Audience: functionaries of Chamber of Commerce and Industry of Naples.
13:50:43 <pasquale> Content: Web accessibility opportunities and rules for Government and  
13:50:43 <pasquale> Administration
13:50:43 <pasquale> Readings:
13:50:45 <pasquale> Introduction to Web Accessibility
13:50:47 <pasquale> http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/accessibility.php
13:50:49 <pasquale> How People with Disabilities Use the Web
13:50:51 <pasquale> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/PWD-Use-Web/
13:50:53 <pasquale> Developing a Web Accessibility Business Case for Your Organization
13:50:54 <shawn> Shawn: about RSS feed: started listing all the pointers to the business case, but stopped 'cause there are too many -- in all sorts of places & languages - looks like a couple 100
13:50:55 <pasquale> http://www.w3.org/WAI/bcase/Overview
13:50:57 <pasquale> and the results and feedback was really good!
13:50:59 <pasquale> I'm going to translate it into italian ;-)
13:51:28 <Jack> Wayne: Brief annoucements used in conjunction with slide sets could be effective
13:53:46 <Jack> Judy: Staying with slide set approach. What do you want to see included?
13:54:15 <pasquale> all the document
13:54:36 <pasquale> no,
13:54:48 <Jack> Shawn: Reading Pasquale's comments since his microphone is not working
13:55:10 <judy_dc> can't hear me?
13:55:33 <Jack> Shawn: Has anyone does slides already?
13:57:34 <Jack> Wayne: Slide set should address different levels of acceptance
13:58:36 <Jack> Jack: Different levels of knowledge and acceptance of accessibility on the web
13:59:29 <Jack> William: Different history should be reflected in slides
14:01:32 <Jack> Judy:  Expains more of the background that William is refering to with MicroSoft and accessibility
14:04:00 <Jack> Judy: To have the case studies work well they would have to be directly retlated to web accessibility
14:04:37 <Jack> Judy: Should we have Shawn add an introduction?
14:04:54 <Jack> Shawn: Probably not.
14:06:00 <Jack> Judy:  Any other ideas? 
14:07:47 <Jack> Liam: Taking a step back and talking to people that this is a hard struggle
14:08:20 <Jack> Judy: A resource document for advocates?
14:09:21 <Jack> Wayne: Important thought - but have not done anything with it
14:11:07 <Jack> Wayne: A web-based survey form to deal with the need for web accessibility
14:11:56 <Jack> Justin: Would it be possible to give things to bloggers
14:12:26 <Jack> William: Need a clipping service
14:13:02 <Justin> q+ there are plenty of social bookmarking tools out on the web
14:18:18 <Jack> Judy: Paying attention to timing. Simple strategies such slides sets, blogger names, mentions in conference may have a multiplier effect
14:19:12 <shawn> q?
14:19:17 <shawn> ack shawn
14:19:17 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say we need that 3 carrots & a stick image.
14:19:27 <shawn> q+ justin?
14:20:06 <Justin> ack justin
14:20:28 <Jack> Judy: Any follow-up thoughts that people have are welcomed
14:20:40 <shawn> Regrets: [needs to be culled from EOWG e-mail list]
14:21:06 <Zakim> -Bingham
14:21:15 <Zakim> -George_Heake
14:21:19 <Zakim> -LiamM
14:21:21 <Zakim> -wayne
14:21:22 <Zakim> -Justin_Thorp
14:21:35 <Jack> Justin: There are many public clipping services that may be useful
14:21:44 <pasquale> by all
14:22:06 <Zakim> -Pasquale
14:22:15 <Zakim> -Jack
14:22:29 <Zakim> -Shawn
14:22:36 <Zakim> -Helle
14:22:40 <shawn> zakim, who is here?
14:22:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see Judy, Loughborough
14:22:41 <Zakim> On IRC I see Jack, LiamM, pasquale, Zakim, RRSAgent, shawn, Justin
14:22:55 <Zakim> -Loughborough
14:23:00 <shawn> rrsagent, make logs world
14:23:03 <Zakim> -Judy
14:23:05 <Zakim> WAI_EOWG()8:30AM has ended
14:23:06 <Zakim> Attendees were Jack, Judy, Bingham, George_Heake, Justin_Thorp, Loughborough, Pasquale, wayne, Shawn, Helle, LiamM
14:23:07 <shawn> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:23:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/10/21-eo-minutes.html shawn
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