IRC log of swbp on 2005-10-18

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:54:41 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #swbp

13:54:41 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/10/18-swbp-irc

13:54:50 [Steven]

rrsagent, make log public

13:55:02 [Steven]

zakim, this will be rdf

13:55:02 [Zakim]

ok, Steven; I see SW_BPD(rdfxhtml)10:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes

13:57:42 [Ralphs]

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13:58:23 [Ralphs]

Meeting: SWBPD RDF-in-XHTML TF

13:58:54 [Ralphs]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2005Oct/0024.html

13:59:05 [Ralphs]

Regrets: Mark

14:00:12 [Zakim]

SW_BPD(rdfxhtml)10:00AM has now started

14:00:19 [Zakim]

+Ralph

14:00:22 [Steven]

zakim, dial steen-617

14:00:22 [Zakim]

I am sorry, Steven; I do not know a number for steen-617

14:00:31 [Steven]

zakim, dial steven-617

14:00:32 [Zakim]

ok, Steven; the call is being made

14:00:33 [Zakim]

+Steven

14:00:33 [Ralphs]

Previous: 2005-10-11 http://www.w3.org/2005/10/11-swbp-minutes

14:03:46 [benadida]

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14:04:05 [Zakim]

+Ben_Adida

14:08:29 [Zakim]

+??P15

14:08:41 [Ralphs]

zakim, ??p15 is Jeremy

14:08:41 [Zakim]

+Jeremy; got it

14:09:19 [Zakim]

-Jeremy

14:09:50 [Zakim]

+??P15

14:09:56 [Ralphs]

zakim, ??p15 is Jeremy

14:09:56 [Zakim]

+Jeremy; got it

14:10:53 [Ralphs]

Topic: CURI proposal

14:10:59 [Zakim]

-Jeremy

14:11:29 [Ralphs]

Ralph: I'm getting skepticism from the Team but I need to respond to the messages and explain that yes, we've considered all of the alternatives that people have mentioned

14:11:35 [Zakim]

+??P15

14:11:41 [Ralphs]

Ben: we may not be able to reach a consensus here before the WG F2F

14:11:44 [Ralphs]

zakim, ??p15 is Jeremy

14:11:44 [Zakim]

+Jeremy; got it

14:12:53 [benadida]

Ralph: I would prefer if we had a more definitive proposal in time for the F2F

14:14:07 [Ralphs]

Jeremy: I told my HP colleagues that Mark's CURI proposal addresses both the qname and the bnode issues

14:14:20 [Ralphs]

... and it's the least ugly of the alternatives we have considered

14:14:33 [Ralphs]

... I don't think any of the possibilities are really attractive

14:14:56 [Ralphs]

Ben: the ugliness only occurs when you actually use bnodes or qnames in an href

14:15:15 [Ralphs]

... i.e. only when you're trying to squeeze [octets] or using more complex RDF

14:15:42 [Ralphs]

Jeremy: some people point out that additional attributes have that same characteristic; you only see the comnplication when you need to use it

14:15:51 [Ralphs]

... but that feels to me like a larger learning curve

14:16:27 [Ralphs]

Ralph: I agree; learning more attributes seems more complicated than learning a square-bracket syntax

14:17:05 [Ralphs]

ACTION: Ben put notes in the Web from Boston discussion with Mark [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/11-swbp-minutes.html#action05]

14:17:32 [Ralphs]

-- continues

14:17:45 [benadida]

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/HTML/2005-rdfa

14:18:03 [Ralphs]

Ben: some progress

14:18:09 [Ralphs]

... haven't finished all the examples yet

14:18:39 [Ralphs]

... by next week we hope to have some version of RDF/A spec based on these notes and on a CURI resolution

14:22:03 [Ralphs]

... let's work on 2 documents; (1) a primer on how to add metadata to an HTML document and (2) a formal specification of RDF/A

14:22:48 [Ralphs]

Ralph: I'd give priority to the formal specification of RDF/A as that's what Jeremy needs to show implementability and what I think the WG will need for the f2f

14:23:13 [Ralphs]

Jeremy: agree, but the primer will also be useful at the F2F so we should get some words in there also

14:23:40 [Ralphs]

... my priority for the WG is to get a new version of the XML Schema Datatypes document out, so this TF comes second in priority

14:24:43 [Ralphs]

ACTION: Ben summarize the question of semantics of the HTML role attribute and solicit feedback from RDF experts [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/04-swbp-minutes.html#action01]

14:24:45 [Ralphs]

-- done

14:25:08 [Ralphs]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/semantic-web/2005Oct/0161.html Question from the RDF-in-XHTML task force on the HTML Role Attribute [Ben 2005-10-17]

14:25:36 [Ralphs]

(CC'd to public-rdf-in-xhtml task)

14:25:53 [Ralphs]

Ben: I hope to have a document for review over the weekend

14:26:07 [Ralphs]

... so we can discuss reviews at next Tuesday's telecon

14:26:14 [Ralphs]

... will coordinate with Mark on this

14:26:39 [Ralphs]

-> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/HTML/2005-rdfa RDF in XHTML Taskforce - RDF/A Examples

14:26:47 [Ralphs]

Ben: anything shocking yet in this draft?

14:26:53 [Ralphs]

Steven: no

14:27:41 [Ralphs]

Ben: in the "Metadata About Other Documents" example, we don't have a way to say "here's an image" and "here's some metadata about that image" without repeating the URI

14:27:48 [Ralphs]

... do we want to consider this case?

14:28:34 [Ralphs]

Jeremy: could we consider using href?

14:29:31 [Ralphs]

ACTION: Ben add repeating URI in IMG case to issues list

14:29:49 [Ralphs]

Steven: IMG is no longer empty in XHTML2

14:30:10 [Ralphs]

... the content replaces the ALT attribute; it's fallback if the image is not available

14:31:14 [Ralphs]

Ralph: I'm ok with adding this as an issue but one alternative is to repeat the URIs -- i.e. I'm not persuaded yet that this is a problem that we need to solve

14:31:31 [Steven]

<img src="photo2.jpg" href="photo2.jpg" rev="dc:author" content="Steven Pemberton" />

14:32:07 [Steven]

No, that doesn't work... rev doesn't take content="..."

14:32:28 [Ralphs]

Ben: I expect that this 2005-rdfa draft will evolve to become part of the primer

14:33:39 [Steven]

<img src="photo2.jpg" about="photo2.jpg" rel="dc:author" content="Steven Pemberton" />

14:34:31 [Ralphs]

Topic: Role attribute

14:35:10 [Ralphs]

Ben: Ivan Herman suggests we're trying to do to much in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2005Oct/0030.html

14:35:31 [Ralphs]

Steven: I don't agree with Ivan; if we can find a way to use it this will be an expressive addition

14:36:08 [Ralphs]

ACTION: Mark write CURI specification by 10 Oct [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/04-swbp-minutes.html#action02]

14:36:11 [Ralphs]

-- continues

14:36:43 [Ralphs]

Mark: [in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2005Oct/0031.html ] "I will have the CURIE note available in the next couple of days,"

14:37:25 [Ralphs]

Steven: I had some trouble understanding the distinction Geoff Chappell is making in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2005Oct/0028.html

14:37:34 [Ralphs]

... need to think about this more

14:37:57 [Ralphs]

Steven: regrets for next Tuesday's telecon

14:38:24 [Ralphs]

ACTION: Steven track and report on Role discussion before next Tuesday

14:38:56 [Ralphs]

ACTION: Ralph and Ben to augment the issues list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-swbp-irc#T14-30-04]

14:38:59 [Ralphs]

-- continues

14:39:31 [Ralphs]

Ben: our goal should be to have a document that Jeremy can use to test implementation before the f2f

14:39:48 [Ralphs]

ACTION: Mark and Ben to check edge cases of inheritance in RDF/A [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action06]

14:39:52 [Ralphs]

-- continues

14:39:55 [Ralphs]

ACTION: Ben to put together the "ACID" test for XHTML2 RDF/A [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action02]

14:39:57 [Ralphs]

-- continues

14:40:18 [Zakim]

-Steven

14:40:19 [Ralphs]

[adjourned]

14:40:24 [Zakim]

-Ben_Adida

14:41:03 [benadida]

soundsgood, I'll be at MIT

14:41:07 [Steven]

Great

14:41:46 [Zakim]

-Ralph

14:41:47 [Zakim]

-Jeremy

14:41:48 [Zakim]

SW_BPD(rdfxhtml)10:00AM has ended

14:41:49 [Zakim]

Attendees were Ralph, Steven, Ben_Adida, Jeremy

14:42:04 [Ralphs]

rrsagent, please draft minutes

14:42:04 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/10/18-swbp-minutes.html Ralphs

14:42:32 [Ralphs]

zakim, bye

14:42:32 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #swbp

14:42:35 [benadida]

benadida has left #swbp

14:42:43 [Ralphs]

rrsagent, bye

14:42:43 [RRSAgent]

I see 8 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/18-swbp-actions.rdf :

14:42:43 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ben put notes in the Web from Boston discussion with Mark [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/11-swbp-minutes.html#action05] [1]

14:42:43 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/18-swbp-irc#T14-17-05

14:42:43 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ben summarize the question of semantics of the HTML role attribute and solicit feedback from RDF experts [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/04-swbp-minutes.html#action01] [2]

14:42:43 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/18-swbp-irc#T14-24-43

14:42:43 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ben add repeating URI in IMG case to issues list [3]

14:42:43 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/18-swbp-irc#T14-29-31

14:42:43 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Mark write CURI specification by 10 Oct [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/04-swbp-minutes.html#action02] [4]

14:42:43 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/18-swbp-irc#T14-36-08

14:42:43 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Steven track and report on Role discussion before next Tuesday [5]

14:42:43 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/18-swbp-irc#T14-38-24

14:42:43 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ralph and Ben to augment the issues list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-swbp-irc#T14-30-04] [6]

14:42:43 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/18-swbp-irc#T14-38-56

14:42:43 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Mark and Ben to check edge cases of inheritance in RDF/A [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action06] [7]

14:42:43 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/18-swbp-irc#T14-39-48

14:42:43 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ben to put together the "ACID" test for XHTML2 RDF/A [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action02] [8]

14:42:43 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/18-swbp-irc#T14-39-55