13:54:41 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #swbp
13:54:41 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/10/18-swbp-irc
13:54:50 <Steven> rrsagent, make log public
13:55:02 <Steven> zakim, this will be rdf
13:55:02 <Zakim> ok, Steven; I see SW_BPD(rdfxhtml)10:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
13:57:42 <Ralphs> Ralphs has joined #swbp
13:58:23 <Ralphs> Meeting: SWBPD RDF-in-XHTML TF
13:58:54 <Ralphs> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2005Oct/0024.html
13:59:05 <Ralphs> Regrets: Mark
14:00:12 <Zakim> SW_BPD(rdfxhtml)10:00AM has now started
14:00:19 <Zakim> +Ralph
14:00:22 <Steven> zakim, dial steen-617
14:00:22 <Zakim> I am sorry, Steven; I do not know a number for steen-617
14:00:31 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
14:00:32 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
14:00:33 <Zakim> +Steven
14:00:33 <Ralphs> Previous: 2005-10-11 http://www.w3.org/2005/10/11-swbp-minutes
14:03:46 <benadida> benadida has joined #swbp
14:04:05 <Zakim> +Ben_Adida
14:08:29 <Zakim> +??P15
14:08:41 <Ralphs> zakim, ??p15 is Jeremy
14:08:41 <Zakim> +Jeremy; got it
14:09:19 <Zakim> -Jeremy
14:09:50 <Zakim> +??P15
14:09:56 <Ralphs> zakim, ??p15 is Jeremy
14:09:56 <Zakim> +Jeremy; got it
14:10:53 <Ralphs> Topic: CURI proposal
14:10:59 <Zakim> -Jeremy
14:11:29 <Ralphs> Ralph: I'm getting skepticism from the Team but I need to respond to the messages and explain that yes, we've considered all of the alternatives that people have mentioned
14:11:35 <Zakim> +??P15
14:11:41 <Ralphs> Ben: we may not be able to reach a consensus here before the WG F2F
14:11:44 <Ralphs> zakim, ??p15 is Jeremy
14:11:44 <Zakim> +Jeremy; got it
14:12:53 <benadida> Ralph: I would prefer if we had a more definitive proposal in time for the F2F
14:14:07 <Ralphs> Jeremy: I told my HP colleagues that Mark's CURI proposal addresses both the qname and the bnode issues
14:14:20 <Ralphs> ... and it's the least ugly of the alternatives we have considered
14:14:33 <Ralphs> ... I don't think any of the possibilities are really attractive
14:14:56 <Ralphs> Ben: the ugliness only occurs when you actually use bnodes or qnames in an href
14:15:15 <Ralphs> ... i.e. only when you're trying to squeeze [octets] or using more complex RDF
14:15:42 <Ralphs> Jeremy: some people point out that additional attributes have that same characteristic; you only see the comnplication when you need to use it
14:15:51 <Ralphs> ... but that feels to me like a larger learning curve
14:16:27 <Ralphs> Ralph: I agree; learning more attributes seems more complicated than learning a square-bracket syntax
14:17:05 <Ralphs> ACTION: Ben put notes in the Web from Boston discussion with Mark [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/11-swbp-minutes.html#action05]
14:17:32 <Ralphs> -- continues
14:17:45 <benadida> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/HTML/2005-rdfa
14:18:03 <Ralphs> Ben: some progress
14:18:09 <Ralphs> ... haven't finished all the examples yet
14:18:39 <Ralphs> ... by next week we hope to have some version of RDF/A spec based on these notes and on a CURI resolution
14:22:03 <Ralphs> ... let's work on 2 documents; (1) a primer on how to add metadata to an HTML document and (2) a formal specification of RDF/A
14:22:48 <Ralphs> Ralph: I'd give priority to the formal specification of RDF/A as that's what Jeremy needs to show implementability and what I think the WG will need for the f2f
14:23:13 <Ralphs> Jeremy: agree, but the primer will also be useful at the F2F so we should get some words in there also
14:23:40 <Ralphs> ... my priority for the WG is to get a new version of the XML Schema Datatypes document out, so this TF comes second in priority
14:24:43 <Ralphs> ACTION: Ben summarize the question of semantics of the HTML role attribute and solicit feedback from RDF experts [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/04-swbp-minutes.html#action01]
14:24:45 <Ralphs> -- done
14:25:08 <Ralphs> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/semantic-web/2005Oct/0161.html Question from the RDF-in-XHTML task force on the HTML Role Attribute [Ben 2005-10-17]
14:25:36 <Ralphs> (CC'd to public-rdf-in-xhtml task)
14:25:53 <Ralphs> Ben: I hope to have a document for review over the weekend
14:26:07 <Ralphs> ... so we can discuss reviews at next Tuesday's telecon
14:26:14 <Ralphs> ... will coordinate with Mark on this
14:26:39 <Ralphs> -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/HTML/2005-rdfa RDF in XHTML Taskforce - RDF/A Examples
14:26:47 <Ralphs> Ben: anything shocking yet in this draft?
14:26:53 <Ralphs> Steven: no
14:27:41 <Ralphs> Ben: in the "Metadata About Other Documents" example, we don't have a way to say "here's an image" and "here's some metadata about that image" without repeating the URI
14:27:48 <Ralphs> ... do we want to consider this case?
14:28:34 <Ralphs> Jeremy: could we consider using href?
14:29:31 <Ralphs> ACTION: Ben add repeating URI in IMG case to issues list
14:29:49 <Ralphs> Steven: IMG is no longer empty in XHTML2
14:30:10 <Ralphs> ... the content replaces the ALT attribute; it's fallback if the image is not available
14:31:14 <Ralphs> Ralph: I'm ok with adding this as an issue but one alternative is to repeat the URIs -- i.e. I'm not persuaded yet that this is a problem that we need to solve
14:31:31 <Steven> <img src="photo2.jpg" href="photo2.jpg" rev="dc:author" content="Steven Pemberton" />
14:32:07 <Steven> No, that doesn't work... rev doesn't take content="..."
14:32:28 <Ralphs> Ben: I expect that this 2005-rdfa draft will evolve to become part of the primer
14:33:39 <Steven> <img src="photo2.jpg" about="photo2.jpg" rel="dc:author" content="Steven Pemberton" />
14:34:31 <Ralphs> Topic: Role attribute
14:35:10 <Ralphs> Ben: Ivan Herman suggests we're trying to do to much in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2005Oct/0030.html
14:35:31 <Ralphs> Steven: I don't agree with Ivan; if we can find a way to use it this will be an expressive addition
14:36:08 <Ralphs> ACTION: Mark write CURI specification by 10 Oct [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/04-swbp-minutes.html#action02]
14:36:11 <Ralphs> -- continues
14:36:43 <Ralphs> Mark: [in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2005Oct/0031.html ] "I will have the CURIE note available in the next couple of days,"
14:37:25 <Ralphs> Steven: I had some trouble understanding the distinction Geoff Chappell is making in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2005Oct/0028.html
14:37:34 <Ralphs> ... need to think about this more
14:37:57 <Ralphs> Steven: regrets for next Tuesday's telecon
14:38:24 <Ralphs> ACTION: Steven track and report on Role discussion before next Tuesday
14:38:56 <Ralphs> ACTION: Ralph and Ben to augment the issues list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-swbp-irc#T14-30-04]
14:38:59 <Ralphs> -- continues
14:39:31 <Ralphs> Ben: our goal should be to have a document that Jeremy can use to test implementation before the f2f
14:39:48 <Ralphs> ACTION: Mark and Ben to check edge cases of inheritance in RDF/A [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action06]
14:39:52 <Ralphs> -- continues
14:39:55 <Ralphs> ACTION: Ben to put together the "ACID" test for XHTML2 RDF/A [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action02]
14:39:57 <Ralphs> -- continues
14:40:18 <Zakim> -Steven
14:40:19 <Ralphs> [adjourned]
14:40:24 <Zakim> -Ben_Adida
14:41:03 <benadida> soundsgood, I'll be at MIT
14:41:07 <Steven> Great
14:41:46 <Zakim> -Ralph
14:41:47 <Zakim> -Jeremy
14:41:48 <Zakim> SW_BPD(rdfxhtml)10:00AM has ended
14:41:49 <Zakim> Attendees were Ralph, Steven, Ben_Adida, Jeremy
14:42:04 <Ralphs> rrsagent, please draft minutes
14:42:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/10/18-swbp-minutes.html Ralphs
14:42:32 <Ralphs> zakim, bye
14:42:32 <Zakim> Zakim has left #swbp
14:42:35 <benadida> benadida has left #swbp
14:42:43 <Ralphs> rrsagent, bye
14:42:43 <RRSAgent> I see 8 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/18-swbp-actions.rdf :
14:42:43 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben put notes in the Web from Boston discussion with Mark [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/11-swbp-minutes.html#action05] [1]
14:42:43 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/18-swbp-irc#T14-17-05
14:42:43 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben summarize the question of semantics of the HTML role attribute and solicit feedback from RDF experts [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/04-swbp-minutes.html#action01] [2]
14:42:43 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/18-swbp-irc#T14-24-43
14:42:43 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben add repeating URI in IMG case to issues list [3]
14:42:43 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/18-swbp-irc#T14-29-31
14:42:43 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Mark write CURI specification by 10 Oct [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/04-swbp-minutes.html#action02] [4]
14:42:43 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/18-swbp-irc#T14-36-08
14:42:43 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Steven track and report on Role discussion before next Tuesday [5]
14:42:43 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/18-swbp-irc#T14-38-24
14:42:43 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ralph and Ben to augment the issues list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-swbp-irc#T14-30-04] [6]
14:42:43 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/18-swbp-irc#T14-38-56
14:42:43 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Mark and Ben to check edge cases of inheritance in RDF/A [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action06] [7]
14:42:43 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/18-swbp-irc#T14-39-48
14:42:43 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to put together the "ACID" test for XHTML2 RDF/A [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action02] [8]
14:42:43 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/18-swbp-irc#T14-39-55