IRC log of swbp on 2005-10-17

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:53:25 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #swbp
16:53:25 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/10/17-swbp-irc
16:53:29 [Ralphs]
Meeting: SWBPD WG
16:55:37 [FabGandon]
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16:56:41 [Ralphs]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Oct/0108.html
16:57:27 [Zakim]
SW_BPD()1:00PM has now started
16:57:34 [Zakim]
+[Sophia]
16:57:36 [FabGandon]
zakim, [Sophia] is FabGandon
16:57:36 [Zakim]
+FabGandon; got it
16:57:47 [dbooth]
dbooth has joined #swbp
16:58:15 [Guus]
i'm having problems with my operator, hope to jopin asap
16:59:00 [Zakim]
+Ralph
16:59:07 [Zakim]
+DBooth
16:59:07 [vassilis]
vassilis has joined #swbp
16:59:49 [libby]
libby has joined #swbp
16:59:52 [Giorgos]
Giorgos has joined #swbp
17:00:15 [Zakim]
+??P2
17:00:16 [Zakim]
+Alistair_Miles (was ??P2)
17:00:48 [Ralphs]
Previous: 2005-10-03 http://www.w3.org/2005/10/03-swbp-minutes.html
17:00:48 [Zakim]
+??P7
17:00:48 [Guus]
they are trying to solve the problem, but I'm still without a phone connection, sorry
17:01:10 [Zakim]
-??P7
17:01:10 [Ralphs]
zakim, ??p7 is Chris_M
17:01:11 [Zakim]
I already had ??P7 as ??P7, Ralphs
17:01:32 [Zakim]
+Giorgos
17:01:33 [Zakim]
+[UMD]
17:01:39 [Zakim]
+??P9
17:01:45 [Ralphs]
zakim, umd is David_Wood
17:01:45 [Zakim]
+David_Wood; got it
17:02:01 [Ralphs]
zakim, ??p9 is Chris_M
17:02:01 [Zakim]
+Chris_M; got it
17:02:08 [Zakim]
+ +44.122.427.aaaa
17:02:14 [dwood]
dwood has joined #swbp
17:02:25 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
17:02:33 [Ralphs]
zakim, aaaa is Jeff
17:02:33 [Zakim]
+Jeff; got it
17:02:56 [Ralphs]
zakim, ipcaller is Giorgos
17:02:56 [Zakim]
+Giorgos; got it
17:03:04 [Ralphs]
zakim, Jeff is really Jeremy
17:03:04 [Zakim]
+Jeremy; got it
17:03:36 [Ralphs]
zakim, Vassilis is with Giorgos
17:03:36 [Zakim]
+Vassilis; got it
17:03:41 [Zakim]
+[IBMCambridge]
17:03:52 [Ralphs]
zakim, ibm is ChrisW
17:03:52 [Zakim]
sorry, Ralphs, I do not recognize a party named 'ibm'
17:03:56 [Ralphs]
zakim, [ibm is ChrisW
17:03:56 [Zakim]
+ChrisW; got it
17:05:03 [jeremy]
jeremy has joined #swbp
17:05:51 [Guus]
I spoke to the operator and our univ bridge is having peroblems, they are trying to repair it asap
17:06:04 [jeremy]
zakim, unmute me
17:06:04 [Zakim]
Jeremy should no longer be muted
17:06:07 [Guus]
i have no opther phoen here :-(
17:06:24 [dwood]
Guus: I can chair
17:06:44 [Guus]
ok, i will follow on IRC and will join as soon as they've repaired it
17:06:50 [dbooth]
Meeting: Semantc Web Best Practices WG
17:07:03 [Ralphs]
Regrets: Elisa, DanBri, Benjamin, Raphael, ChrisH, Natasha, Phil, Brian, Gary
17:07:06 [dbooth]
Chair: Guus, David Wood
17:07:36 [Ralphs]
RESOLVED to accept the minutes of the 3 October telecon: http://www.w3.org/2005/10/03-swbp-minutes.html
17:07:36 [dbooth]
Scribe: DBooth
17:07:48 [chalaschek]
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17:08:13 [dbooth]
i/RESO/Topic: 1. ADMIN (15 min)
17:08:24 [Jacco]
Jacco has joined #swbp
17:08:30 [dbooth]
RESOLVED: Meet 31 Oct (USA Halloween)
17:09:13 [JeffP]
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17:09:21 [Zakim]
+Jacco_van_Ossenbruggen
17:09:25 [dbooth]
DWood: Guus wants to discuss pub of SKOS docs as WG notes. Other agenda amendments?
17:09:45 [Guus]
proposal to publish SKOS docs as 2nd WDs
17:09:59 [Jacco]
zakim, mute me
17:09:59 [Zakim]
Jacco_van_Ossenbruggen should now be muted
17:10:25 [dbooth]
ACTION: Brian to review SPARQL Last Call document recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/19-swbp-minutes.html#action04 [CONTINUED]
17:11:31 [dbooth]
ACTION: Jeremy to brief the WG on use of IRIs in SPARQL [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/19-swbp-minutes.html#action05] [DONE]
17:11:38 [dbooth]
See: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Oct/0014.html
17:11:51 [Ralphs]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Oct/0014.html IRIs [Jeremy 2005-10-03]
17:11:56 [dbooth]
ACTION: David Wood draft SPARQL Language review on behalf of the WG recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/03-swbp-minutes.html#action17 [DONE]
17:12:00 [Ralphs]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Oct/0107.html [All] SPARQL Query Language Review [David 2005-10-14]
17:12:06 [dbooth]
Topic: 2.4 Protocol and Formats WG request
17:12:26 [dbooth]
ACTION: jjc review EARL requirements recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/25-swbp-minutes.html#action05 [DONE]
17:12:33 [dbooth]
See: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Oct/0020.html
17:12:47 [Ralphs]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Oct/0020.html Review of EARL requirements [Jeremy 2005-10-03]
17:12:58 [dbooth]
ACTION: Alistair and Guus to help the WAI Protocol and Formats WG on their vocabulary recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/19-swbp-minutes.html#action07 [CONTINUED]
17:13:06 [jjc]
q+ to mention latest WD
17:13:18 [Ralphs]
zakim, is guus here?
17:13:18 [Zakim]
Ralphs, I do not see Guus anywhere
17:13:20 [dbooth]
Alistair: Their original request was too vague. I think we should ask them what help they need. Guus?
17:13:28 [dwood]
q?
17:13:33 [dwood]
ack jjc
17:13:33 [Zakim]
jjc, you wanted to mention latest WD
17:13:54 [dbooth]
Jeremy: Their latest WD has an extensive RDF schema, which I noticed and don't want to review. :)
17:14:08 [Guus]
yes, I will send email to Al asking for further explanation
17:14:32 [aliman]
Guus how do you think we should proceed re PFWG?
17:14:38 [dbooth]
Topic: 3. FTF preparation and future of WG
17:14:51 [jjc]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-EARL10-Schema-20050909/
17:14:56 [Guus]
I suggest a telecon between PTWG and Alistair and me
17:15:01 [dbooth]
DWood: 40 WG members have not yet responded to questionnaire. Please respond!
17:15:02 [jjc]
Evaluation and Report Language (EARL) 1.0 Schema
17:15:02 [jjc]
W3C Working Draft 09 September 2005
17:15:03 [Ralphs]
-> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35495/ftf-3/results F2F3 registration results
17:15:11 [Ralphs]
"19 answers have been received"
17:15:17 [aliman]
Guus that sounds fine to me, can you arrange it?
17:15:28 [Guus]
please give me action
17:15:33 [dbooth]
ACTION: Ralph check on possibility of remote participation for f2f recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/03-swbp-minutes.html#action02 [DONE]
17:15:50 [dbooth]
Ralph: Yes, there will be conf room phone capability, so I will arrange a bridge.
17:16:52 [aliman]
guus you mean action on you to arrange a telecon?
17:16:55 [dbooth]
i/Topic/Alistair: Please refine our action to say we'll arrange a telecon/
17:16:58 [Guus]
yes
17:17:14 [dbooth]
Please answer the questionnaire.
17:17:14 [dbooth]
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35495/ftf-3/
17:18:01 [dbooth]
DWood: Dinner at pub on Quay street? Seems sufficient interest.
17:18:36 [aliman]
ACTION: Guus to arrange telecon between himself, Alistair and PFWG
17:18:39 [dbooth]
DWood: The f2f agenda goes through the task forces.
17:19:18 [dwood]
q?
17:19:29 [dbooth]
... On Saturday afternoon we have only 1 hour at the end to discuss the future of the WG.
17:19:33 [dbooth]
... Comments?
17:19:46 [dbooth]
(none)
17:19:46 [Ralphs]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Oct/0119.html draft f2f agenda [Guus 2004-10-17]
17:19:54 [Ralphs]
s/2004/2005/
17:19:55 [dbooth]
Topic: 4.2 OEP (Deb/Chris)
17:20:35 [dbooth]
Chris: TF met monday, discussed outstanding issues. Came to agreement on n-ary relations doc. Changing 2nd example to not use lists.
17:20:56 [dbooth]
... Part-whole note is almost ready for review. Have reviews of OWL Time note coming in.
17:21:24 [dbooth]
... Semantic integration note is coming along nicely. Chris Benzel (Boeing) is coordinating on that.
17:21:44 [dbooth]
s/Chris:/ChrisW:/
17:22:00 [dbooth]
ChrisBenzel: It's coming along well.
17:22:26 [dbooth]
... lots of input from Deb. Good telecon with Pat Hayes.
17:22:53 [dbooth]
... Lots to work on with these 4 small ontologies that we built. Lots of good examples.
17:23:25 [dbooth]
... Built by me, Michael Sholt, Deb McGuiness, ___, based on a tutorial for Spain. (Toy ontologies.)
17:23:29 [Ralphs]
s/Benzel/Menzel/
17:23:59 [dbooth]
... Should expect question on applying them to real world cases.
17:24:04 [dbooth]
s/Benzel/Menzel/
17:24:42 [dbooth]
ChrisW: natasha is the only one who has not approved the Part-Whole document.
17:25:31 [Guus]
I'm going to try to use another connection, will be offline for 5 minutes
17:25:34 [dbooth]
ACTION: GUUS to approve new version of simple part note going to first WD http://www.w3.org/2005/09/05-swbp-minutes.html#action06 [DONE]
17:26:00 [dbooth]
ACTION: Alistair to review Qualified Cardinality note [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/19-swbp-minutes.html#action09 ] [PENDING]
17:26:25 [dbooth]
ACTION: Guus to review OWL Time note [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/19-swbp-minutes.html#action10 ] [PENDING]
17:26:48 [dbooth]
CTION: Libby to review OWL Time note [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/19-swbp-minutes.html#action12 ] [DONE]
17:26:51 [Giorgos]
please unmute
17:26:59 [dbooth]
Topic: 4.0 MM TF (Giorgos)
17:27:46 [dbooth]
Giogos: Had 2 telecons since previous WG mtg. Sent the 1st deliverable to reviewers.
17:29:15 [dbooth]
(Postponed discussion due to phone problems)
17:29:25 [dbooth]
Topic: 4.1 PORT (Alistair)
17:29:39 [aliman]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Oct/0121.html
17:29:58 [Zakim]
+Libby_Miller
17:30:20 [dbooth]
Alistair: Want to move SKOS Core 2005-10-06 ed draft of core guide and vocab spec to second pub WD.
17:30:38 [dbooth]
ChrisW: Second the motion.
17:30:46 [Giorgos]
try to send you some information though the IRC, difficult to find another phone, I am home
17:30:54 [Giorgos]
sorry
17:30:56 [Zakim]
+Deb_McGuiness
17:31:25 [Giorgos]
Jacco are you on the phone?
17:31:32 [dbooth]
DWood: Objections? (none)
17:31:43 [dbooth]
RESOLVED: Move SKOS Core 2005-10-06 ed draft of core guide and vocab spec to second pub WD
17:32:07 [dbooth]
DWood: Thoughts on discussing publishing them as WG notes?
17:32:24 [Ralphs]
(there's no explicit "second pub WD" state; after the first we're simply updating the WD)
17:32:34 [dbooth]
Alistair: Obvious that we're not finished with this work yet. Hoping to pub 3rd WD, though not sure if there is enough time.
17:32:45 [Jacco]
giorgos, please checkout the private chat i'm trying to open with you!
17:33:01 [dbooth]
s/CTION: Libby/ACTION: Libby/
17:33:17 [dbooth]
DWood: Can WG notes be picked up for rec track?
17:33:58 [dwood]
Libby: We can get to your TF in just a minute
17:34:07 [dbooth]
Ralph: Certainly. No need to prematurely stop this work before the end of the WG charter. Not sure why Guus wants the work to stop. To free participant resources for other tasks in the WG?
17:34:27 [Zakim]
+Gavin_McKenzie
17:34:37 [dbooth]
DWood: yes, i want to discuss with Guus to understand his motivation.
17:34:54 [dbooth]
Ralph: But certainly best for this WG to publish it as a note before the WG ends.
17:35:12 [Zakim]
-jjc
17:35:14 [dbooth]
DWood: Library community wants something stable published, that they can count on.
17:35:14 [dwood]
Libby: So noted ;)
17:35:36 [dbooth]
Alistair: My experience is that community doesn't understand the diff between a WG note and a rec.
17:36:07 [dbooth]
... Confusing if the status says that work on it has ended.
17:36:13 [jeremy]
jeremy has joined #swbp
17:36:19 [dbooth]
Ralph: it should stay as a WD if this WG intends to do more on it.
17:36:30 [dbooth]
ChrisW: Always more work to be done on it.
17:36:35 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
17:36:58 [dbooth]
... Only 2 months between f2f and end of WG anyway. Good base for WG proposal to kick off after the WG ends.
17:36:59 [Zakim]
+??P14
17:37:06 [dbooth]
Alistair: Happy to discuss at the F2F.
17:37:58 [dbooth]
ChrisW: It will be more motivating to see how much has accomplished. If it's a good product that we want to push out and relatively stable people can start working on it.
17:37:59 [Zakim]
-jjc
17:38:31 [dbooth]
Alistair: it was designed to allow bits of SKOS to be more stable now so that people can use it, while other parts evolve.
17:38:34 [jjc]
jjc has joined #swbp
17:39:00 [dbooth]
DWood: Talked to Dublin Core about how they handle version control?
17:39:05 [Zakim]
+??P11
17:39:12 [Ralphs]
s/Talked/Have you talked/
17:39:13 [dbooth]
Alistair: Tom Baker worked with us on setting it up.
17:39:37 [dbooth]
ChrisW: SKOS looks pretty good! Nice work Alistair!
17:39:54 [Zakim]
-??P11
17:39:55 [Ralphs]
zakim, ??p14 is Guus
17:39:55 [Zakim]
+Guus; got it
17:40:08 [Zakim]
-Deb_McGuiness
17:40:14 [dbooth]
Guus: If you have particular discussion items for F2F [tell me].
17:40:51 [dbooth]
... Is Saturday okay? Natasha will not be able to join remotely.
17:41:16 [dbooth]
ChrisW: Fine for me.
17:42:07 [Zakim]
-ChrisW
17:42:16 [dbooth]
[ChrisW drops off]
17:42:42 [jjc]
(note: rebooting PC - back soon I hope)
17:42:47 [Zakim]
+Deb_McGuiness
17:42:47 [dbooth]
Alistair: I'll prepare a list of SKOS issues to discuss at F2F.
17:43:26 [dbooth]
ACTION: Ralph to prepare the SKOS public WD for publication
17:44:07 [dlm]
dlm has joined #swbp
17:44:32 [dlm]
hi - i am on both flakey wireless and intermittent cell but connected partially
17:45:19 [Jacco]
zakim, unmute me
17:45:19 [Zakim]
Jacco_van_Ossenbruggen should no longer be muted
17:45:26 [dbooth]
Topic: 4.0 MM TF (Giorgos) [continued]
17:45:32 [dbooth]
(Giorgos not audible)
17:45:49 [dbooth]
Jacco: Still need a second reviewer for documents.
17:46:05 [dbooth]
... Do we need reviews 2 wks before F2F also?
17:46:48 [dbooth]
... Guidelines for image annotation on SemWeb -- overview of the problem.
17:47:21 [dbooth]
... See Task Force home page list of deliverables for link to document.
17:47:37 [libby]
I can review
17:47:40 [Jacco]
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/MM/image_annotation.html
17:47:41 [Ralphs]
-> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/MM/image_annotation.html Image annotation on the Semantic Web Editors' Draft $Date: 2005/10/17 15:12:35 $ $Revision: 1.18 $
17:47:50 [dbooth]
Guus: I could ask Mark.
17:48:00 [libby]
np
17:48:03 [Ralphs]
thanks, Libby
17:48:10 [Jacco]
thanks!
17:48:15 [dbooth]
ACTION: Libby to review MM documents
17:48:41 [Ralphs]
s/MM documents/Image annotation editor's draft/
17:48:55 [dbooth]
Jacco: Would rather focus on getting the doc in shape than on on getting reviews.
17:48:58 [Ralphs]
action 12 = Libby to review Image annotation editor's draft
17:49:08 [dbooth]
DWood: Reviews can occur during the F2F.
17:49:11 [libby]
is that http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/MM/image_annotation.html ?
17:49:36 [dbooth]
Guus: Be sure that reviewers have time during F2F week.
17:49:47 [dbooth]
... Reviews by oct 24 is fine.
17:50:08 [dbooth]
... Very good result, given your TF is only in existence 6 weeks!
17:50:31 [Jacco]
zakim, mute me
17:50:31 [Zakim]
Jacco_van_Ossenbruggen should now be muted
17:50:41 [dbooth]
Topic: 4.3 WordNet (Aldo)
17:51:34 [Zakim]
+??P11
17:51:41 [Ralphs]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Oct/0126.html [WN] editor's draft WordNet datamodel [Guus 2005-10-17]
17:51:47 [dbooth]
Aldo: Lot of work spent on translating the decisions of our Bristol F2F a year ago into a document and files describing the conversion. I posted it 2 hours ago. Hoping it will be input to F2F. Ready for review in a few hours. Hoping DanBri and Brian McBride will look at it prior to review.
17:51:53 [Ralphs]
s/Aldo/Guus/
17:52:12 [jeremy]
jeremy has joined #swbp
17:52:48 [dbooth]
... Also have some questions for vincent. Otherwise reasonably complete.
17:53:23 [dbooth]
ACTION: Aldo to propose an update the Wordnet TF description [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-minutes.html#action04 ] [WITHDRAWN]
17:53:30 [Ralphs]
zakim, ??p11 is Jeremy
17:53:30 [Zakim]
+Jeremy; got it
17:53:54 [dbooth]
Guus: To discuss at F2F: Is the current WD really a step forward? How to finish it before the end of the charter?
17:54:07 [jeremy]
q+
17:54:18 [dbooth]
... I think continued work would be more appropriate for SWIG rather than SWBP.
17:54:49 [dbooth]
... (Speaking of second kind of conversions.)
17:55:16 [dwood]
ack jeremy
17:55:48 [dbooth]
Jeremy: Personally, I would be unhappy with the Wordnet work continuing, because progress has been so slow, but I need to consult with Brian before expressing HP opinion.
17:56:03 [dbooth]
... I.e., I think I agree.
17:56:22 [dbooth]
... If a WG were convened, I would not support a Wordnet TF within it.
17:56:24 [dwood]
q?
17:56:36 [Giorgos]
Giorgos has joined #swbp
17:57:03 [dbooth]
Ralph: In the same spirit as for SKOS, does it make sense to consider with the first draft of this representation published, should that be the first and only thing this WG does?
17:57:17 [dbooth]
Guus: That would be my position, though I don't think Aldo would disagree.
17:57:32 [dbooth]
Ralph: So publishing as a note would be a good idea.
17:57:37 [dbooth]
DWood: I agree.
17:58:18 [dbooth]
Ralph: Not likely to get more done on this in the remaining month of this WG, so let's publish it as note.
17:58:31 [jeremy]
q+
17:58:31 [dbooth]
Guus: Not sure if I agree. Decide at F2F?
17:58:49 [dbooth]
Ralph: I suggest the decision at the F2F should be to publish a document.
17:58:53 [jeremy]
q+ to suggest that WG Note while terminal does not preclude update
17:59:44 [dbooth]
Guus: Doc should be ready within a week. If DanBri and Brian are ok with it, then the current version can be reviewed now. Would like to solicit reviewers now.
18:00:23 [dbooth]
Ralph: If you think you will have resources to do a second draft after we publish it, then we could discuss a proposal to republish.
18:00:38 [dbooth]
Guus: Ok
18:01:20 [dbooth]
Jeremy: If we do go for note, that does not preclude publishing an updated version later.
18:01:27 [dbooth]
Guus: Ok. Good strategy.
18:01:30 [Ralphs]
yes, we can still update a Note if we wish to do so
18:01:46 [Giorgos]
sorry for the problems in my connection, both phone and IRC :-(
18:02:13 [dbooth]
Topic: 4.4 XML Schema datatypes (Jeremy)
18:03:11 [dbooth]
Jeremy: Had hardward difficulties, so I'm behind. I sent some idea of what i think we should do. Might make sense for me and Jeff to work on final version for a note, excluding decision about which version of semantics is useful.
18:03:14 [Ralphs]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Oct/0010.html [XSCH] F2F thoughts [Jeremy 2005-10-03]
18:04:48 [dbooth]
... In current draft published, we say that semantics of when two data types are the same are given by XPath, based on my and Jeff's personal opinion. There are other opinions, including some from Jena team, saying that doesn't work (too hard to implement).
18:05:30 [Zakim]
-FabGandon
18:05:40 [dbooth]
... Jena team preferred a simpler scheme for equality. (Message from Dave Reynolds)
18:05:58 [dbooth]
... Thats' the roadblock to publishing as a WG Note.
18:06:58 [Ralphs]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Oct/0132 Re: XML Schema Datatypes in RDF and OWL [Jeff 2005-10-17]
18:07:13 [dbooth]
JeffP: I replied to Jena's comments this afternoon. Very reasonable. Equality approach could cause performance problem. Map to relations can be decided by implementations. Don't need everything in the schema. We might change our opinion.
18:07:41 [dbooth]
Jeremy: We could prepare a draft with all three options and F2F could discuss and choose.
18:07:48 [dbooth]
JeffP: Good idea.
18:08:20 [dbooth]
Guus: Is the current agenda slot enough time? 45 minutes?
18:08:24 [Ralphs]
Jeff's message was in reply to -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Jul/0058.html Re: XML Schema Datatypes in RDF and OWL [Dave Reynolds 2005-07-18]
18:08:50 [dbooth]
Jeremy: If on Saturday, that would be fine, because we could have TF discussion outside the mtg.
18:09:52 [dbooth]
ACTION: JeffP to draft a response to dave reynolds[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/25-swbp-minutes.html#action09] [DONE]
18:10:27 [dbooth]
ACTION: Jeremy to prepare a new draft of XML Schema datatype prior to F2F
18:11:13 [dbooth]
Topic: 4.6 RDF-in-HTML (Ben)
18:12:31 [dbooth]
Ralph: We continued to make some slow progress on our issues list. hoped to have a doc draft describing RDF/A today. Mark Birbeck as action to send it out (not sure of status). Hoping WG can see document before F2F and discuss. We have solutions to our issues, though there are questions about acceptability of them.
18:12:45 [dbooth]
... Still hope to have it ready before F2F.
18:13:05 [dbooth]
Guus: Ben said he'd make every effort to have doc ready by Oct 27, as input for F2F.
18:13:47 [jeremy]
q+
18:13:56 [dbooth]
Ralph: HTML WG continues to slip deadline as far as I know. The only doc we're targeting is revised spec for RDF/A -- whitepaper we reviewed a year ago.
18:14:30 [dbooth]
DWood: What's their new schedule?
18:14:33 [dbooth]
Ralph: Don't know.
18:15:16 [dbooth]
... They're still in LC. It's been >3 months since last pub, so that will raise eyebrows. Chair told me they expect to go to another LC.
18:15:28 [dbooth]
... I don't think we're the roadblock.
18:16:36 [dbooth]
... HTML WG has not said when they expect to publish next LC document. Don't know when to expect it.
18:17:55 [dbooth]
... others on this WG might want to look at the issues list and weigh in on proposals. One of the most important questions: QNames vs. URIs. At least one customer has gotten a lot of our attention, is interested in minimize doc length.
18:18:15 [dbooth]
... Want to find a solution that allows compact representation for attributes.
18:18:41 [dbooth]
... (They also want to look as much as possible like current HTML.)
18:19:00 [aliman]
Just to note that I came upon the same problem (lack of datatype to cover QName or URI) when trying to write some RDF/A examples using existing well-known RDF vocabs.
18:19:18 [dbooth]
... At some point we'll list alternatives and ask for preference votes.
18:19:55 [dbooth]
Jeremy: Should ask for review: what changes would be needed to be acceptable?
18:20:12 [dbooth]
Ralph: There are decisions the TF has not yet made. If others help, it might spur things along.
18:20:40 [dbooth]
s/ask/produce full spec of RDF-A and ask/
18:21:01 [Ralphs]
-> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/HTML/2005-current-issues RDF in XHTML current issues list
18:21:22 [vassilis]
vassilis has joined #swbp
18:21:34 [dbooth]
DWood: WG has been waiting a while for the TF to produce something. Looking forward to seeing something.
18:22:01 [dbooth]
... Not sure this is the most productive manner to provide input on this.
18:22:01 [Zakim]
-Libby_Miller
18:22:16 [dbooth]
Ralph: I agree. The TF hasn't improved the rate of progress as I had hoped.
18:23:13 [dbooth]
ACTION: Jeremy write a formal description of the CURI proposal for WG consideration [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/03-swbp-minutes.html#action12 ] [PENDING]
18:23:41 [dbooth]
ACTION: DanBri to ask TF for sign-off on putting the draft xhtml vocab to the WG for review. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/05-swbp-minutes.html#action09] [PENDING]
18:23:50 [dbooth]
Topic: 4.9 Tutorial Page
18:24:16 [dbooth]
Jeff: (scribe missed)
18:24:36 [Ralphs]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Oct/0133 [SE] The second note [Jeff 2005-10-17]
18:24:40 [dbooth]
... Sent a link of note that we believe is ready for review.
18:24:55 [dwood]
(no review of Tutorial Page - moved on to SE TF)
18:25:15 [dbooth]
s/4.9 Tutorial Page/4.10 SE TF
18:25:30 [dbooth]
Jeff: Everything going well in prep for Gallway.
18:25:48 [dbooth]
Ralph: Ask on list for reviewers.
18:26:36 [dbooth]
Ralph: I see one person listed as editor on that note who has not been appointed to the WG (Holger). Please look into that.
18:27:08 [dbooth]
Guus: Holger has been active on the list.
18:27:34 [dbooth]
ACTION: JeffPan to check on getting Holger to join the WG
18:27:50 [Zakim]
-Jeremy
18:27:51 [aliman]
thanks all, bye
18:27:52 [dbooth]
ADJOURNED
18:27:52 [Zakim]
-Chris_M
18:27:53 [Zakim]
-Gavin_McKenzie
18:28:02 [Zakim]
-Alistair_Miles
18:28:05 [Zakim]
-Jeff
18:28:13 [dbooth]
rrsagent, draft minutes
18:28:13 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/10/17-swbp-minutes.html dbooth
18:28:14 [dlm]
i never announced my joining the telecon so as not to interrupt - deborah
18:28:15 [Zakim]
-Jacco_van_Ossenbruggen
18:28:18 [dbooth]
rrsagent, make log member
18:28:25 [Zakim]
-David_Wood
18:28:38 [dbooth]
rrsagent, make log public
18:28:55 [Zakim]
-DBooth
18:29:08 [dbooth]
zakim, bye
18:29:08 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were FabGandon, Ralph, DBooth, Alistair_Miles, Giorgos, David_Wood, Chris_M, +44.122.427.aaaa, Jeremy, Vassilis, [IBMCambridge], ChrisW,
18:29:08 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #swbp
18:29:12 [Zakim]
... jjc, Jacco_van_Ossenbruggen, Libby_Miller, Deb_McGuiness, Gavin_McKenzie, Guus
18:29:25 [dbooth]
rrsagent, draft minutes
18:29:25 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/10/17-swbp-minutes.html dbooth
18:55:46 [Ralphs]
rrsagent, bye
18:55:46 [RRSAgent]
I see 18 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/17-swbp-actions.rdf :
18:55:46 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Brian to review SPARQL Last Call document recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/19-swbp-minutes.html#action04 [CONTINUED] [1]
18:55:46 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/17-swbp-irc#T17-10-25
18:55:46 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Jeremy to brief the WG on use of IRIs in SPARQL [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/19-swbp-minutes.html#action05] [DONE] [2]
18:55:46 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/17-swbp-irc#T17-11-31
18:55:46 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: David Wood draft SPARQL Language review on behalf of the WG recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/03-swbp-minutes.html#action17 [DONE] [3]
18:55:46 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/17-swbp-irc#T17-11-56
18:55:46 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: jjc review EARL requirements recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/25-swbp-minutes.html#action05 [DONE] [4]
18:55:46 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/17-swbp-irc#T17-12-26
18:55:46 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Alistair and Guus to help the WAI Protocol and Formats WG on their vocabulary recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/19-swbp-minutes.html#action07 [CONTINUED] [5]
18:55:46 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/17-swbp-irc#T17-12-58
18:55:46 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Ralph check on possibility of remote participation for f2f recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/03-swbp-minutes.html#action02 [DONE] [6]
18:55:46 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/17-swbp-irc#T17-15-33
18:55:46 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Guus to arrange telecon between himself, Alistair and PFWG [7]
18:55:46 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/17-swbp-irc#T17-18-36
18:55:46 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: GUUS to approve new version of simple part note going to first WD http://www.w3.org/2005/09/05-swbp-minutes.html#action06 [DONE] [8]
18:55:46 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/17-swbp-irc#T17-25-34
18:55:46 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Alistair to review Qualified Cardinality note [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/19-swbp-minutes.html#action09 ] [PENDING] [9]
18:55:46 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/17-swbp-irc#T17-26-00
18:55:46 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Guus to review OWL Time note [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/19-swbp-minutes.html#action10 ] [PENDING] [10]
18:55:46 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/17-swbp-irc#T17-26-25
18:55:46 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Ralph to prepare the SKOS public WD for publication [11]
18:55:46 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/17-swbp-irc#T17-43-26
18:55:46 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Libby to review Image annotation editor's draft [12]
18:55:46 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/17-swbp-irc#T17-48-15
18:55:46 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Aldo to propose an update the Wordnet TF description [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-minutes.html#action04 ] [WITHDRAWN] [13]
18:55:46 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/17-swbp-irc#T17-53-23
18:55:46 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JeffP to draft a response to dave reynolds[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/25-swbp-minutes.html#action09] [DONE] [14]
18:55:46 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/17-swbp-irc#T18-09-52
18:55:46 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Jeremy to prepare a new draft of XML Schema datatype prior to F2F [15]
18:55:46 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/17-swbp-irc#T18-10-27
18:55:46 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Jeremy write a formal description of the CURI proposal for WG consideration [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/03-swbp-minutes.html#action12 ] [PENDING] [16]
18:55:46 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/17-swbp-irc#T18-23-13
18:55:46 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: DanBri to ask TF for sign-off on putting the draft xhtml vocab to the WG for review. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/05-swbp-minutes.html#action09] [PENDING] [17]
18:55:46 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/17-swbp-irc#T18-23-41
18:55:46 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: JeffPan to check on getting Holger to join the WG [18]
18:55:46 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/10/17-swbp-irc#T18-27-34