14:30:04 RRSAgent has joined #dawg 14:30:04 logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-irc 14:30:06 Zakim has joined #dawg 14:30:23 zakim, who is on the phone? 14:30:23 sorry, AndyS, I don't know what conference this is 14:30:24 On IRC I see RRSAgent, kendall, LeeF, bijan, patH, DaveB, AndyS, SteveH, afs, ericP, DanC 14:30:33 agenda + Convene, take roll, review records and agenda 14:30:37 Zakim, this is DAWG 14:30:37 ok, DanC; that matches SW_DAWG()10:30AM 14:30:40 zakim, who is on the phone? 14:30:40 On the phone I see ??P2, ??P4, PatH 14:30:50 agenda + Protocol Last Call 14:30:52 zakim, ??p2 is HPLB 14:30:52 +HPLB; got it 14:30:54 +Kendall_Clark 14:30:56 agenda + SPARQL Protocol and WSDL 14:31:03 zakim, hplb has AndyS, DaveB 14:31:03 +AndyS, DaveB; got it 14:31:04 agenda + issues#sort 14:31:14 agenda + BASE IRI resolution comment 14:31:14 I think I'm scribing today. 14:31:20 -alas- 14:31:25 +[IBMCambridge] 14:31:32 zakim, [IBMCambridge] is temporarily LeeF 14:31:32 +LeeF; got it 14:31:32 well, I consider it a good thing, kendall :) 14:31:40 :) 14:31:42 agenda 5=BASE IRI resolution comment ** 14:31:45 I suck at it, but okay. 14:31:52 agenda + issues#valueTesting: handling type "error"s 14:32:00 agenda + issues#rdfSemantics, issues#owlDisjunction ** 14:32:04 zakim, please mute me 14:32:06 LeeF should now be muted 14:32:15 agenda + SPARQL QL grammar, issues#punctuationSyntax 14:32:24 agenda + issues#badIRIRef 14:32:35 +DanC 14:32:38 +EricP 14:32:55 Zakim, take up item 1 14:32:55 agendum 1. "Convene, take roll, review records and agenda" taken up [from DanC] 14:32:57 Anyone notice that a CS prof, Jon Kleinberg, got a MacArthur ("genius") grant? He apparently does algorithm design but also WWW research. 14:32:57 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSep/att-0489/_ag27sep.html 14:33:28 zakim, please unmute me 14:33:28 LeeF should no longer be muted 14:33:47 danbri has joined #dawg 14:34:44 EliasT has joined #dawg 14:35:10 s/halo/mandela/ :) 14:35:22 + +1.617.496.aabb 14:35:34 Zakim, +1.617.496.aabb is EliasT 14:35:34 +EliasT; got it 14:35:40 Zakim, who's on the phone? 14:35:41 On the phone I see HPLB, ??P4, PatH, Kendall_Clark, LeeF, DanC, EricP, EliasT 14:35:42 HPLB has AndyS, DaveB 14:35:51 Zakim, mute me 14:35:51 EliasT should now be muted 14:36:08 Zakim, ??P4 is Souri 14:36:08 +Souri; got it 14:36:16 Regrets: SteveH 14:36:23 Regrets: SteveH, Jeen 14:36:26 Attending: Souri, EricP, me, Pat, Andy, Lee, Dan, Elias 14:36:33 Regrets: SteveH, Jeen, JosD 14:36:54 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSep/att-0446/dawg-13sep.html__charset_ISO-8859-1 minutes 13 Sep 14:37:07 Minutes approve 14:37:15 d 14:37:17 :> 14:37:42 (Regrets for me 4Oct) 14:37:45 I'm at risk for 4 Oct. 14:38:07 EricP is at risk 4 Oct 14:38:32 bijan, are you and enrico still planning to be here 4 Oct? 14:38:44 I am 14:38:52 I can't speak for enrico but he's not told me not 14:38:53 ok. you don't care to scribe, do you? 1/2 ;-) 14:39:00 I'm leaving for .MX on the 5th, so there's a good chance I'll have to miss telcon. 14:39:04 I don't care to scribe :) 14:39:06 Zakim, pick a scribe 14:39:06 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose DaveB 14:39:08 Zakim, pick a scribe 14:39:08 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose DaveB 14:39:10 Zakim, pick a scribe 14:39:10 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose EricP 14:39:13 Zakim, pick a scribe 14:39:13 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Kendall_Clark 14:39:15 Zakim, pick a scribe 14:39:16 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose DanC 14:39:24 Zakim, pick a scribe 14:39:24 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose LeeF 14:39:50 scribe for 4 Oct: LeeF 14:40:15 DONE: ACTION: AndyS to add the above graph test cases 14:40:26 DONE: ACTION: SteveH to review the relevant test case re: IRI normalization 14:40:35 ACTION: DanC to follow up re optional test based on op:dateTime triple [continues] 14:40:44 ACTION: DaveB to to propose source test to approve [continues] 14:40:54 ACTION: ericp to draft lang-match design, summarizing and citing RFC3066 [continues] 14:41:15 Zakim, next item 14:41:15 agendum 2. "Protocol Last Call" taken up [from DanC] 14:41:51 -> http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-rdf-sparql-protocol-20050914/ protocol lcwd 14:43:44 -> http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-rdf-sparql-protocol-20050914/sparql-protocol-query.wsdl wsdl 14:44:25 Content-Type: application/wsdl+xml 14:44:45 targetNamespace="http://www.w3.org/2005/08/sparql-protocol-query/#"> 14:45:20 and I get 404 @ http://www.w3.org/2005/08/sparql-protocol-query/ [which means it shouldn't have been published] 14:48:35 ACTION EricP: arrange for 200 response from http://www.w3.org/2005/08/sparql-protocol-query/ 14:48:48 xmlns:st="http://www.w3.org/2005/09/sparql-protocol-types/#" 14:49:15 sparql-protocol-types.xsd,v 1.1 2005/09/14 15:04:07 eric Exp 14:49:30 happy enough 14:49:50 patH has left #dawg 14:49:56 KC: yes, sparql-protocol-types.xsd,v 1.1 2005/09/14 15:04:07 is happy enough 14:50:17 some confusion caused by .../2005/08/... and .../2005/09/... URIs 14:50:42 patH has joined #dawg 14:51:00 ... http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/lc-status-report.html 14:52:43 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2005Sep/0077.html David Wood: SPARQL Protocol Review and Comments 14:53:04 Kendall, isn't this the latest version actually: 14:53:04 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/proto-wd/sparql-protocol-types.xsd ? ( 2005/09/21 ) 14:55:45 LeeF, is that interestingly different from sparql-protocol-types.xsd,v 1.1 2005/09/14 15:04:07 ? 14:55:54 i.e. other than CVS keywords? 14:55:59 Yes 14:56:04 It removes a stray "/>" 14:56:13 And adds an import of the result format XSD 14:56:26 Lee, there's an xs:import on that one.. 14:56:31 On which one? 14:56:45 sorry... I saw this one: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/proto-wd/sparql-protocol-types.xsd 14:56:59 Right - that's the 9/21 latest one AFAIK 14:57:02 http://www.w3.org/2005/09/sparql-protocol-types/# is older 14:57:30 Zakim, unmute me 14:57:30 EliasT should no longer be muted 14:58:21 Won't I have to change code for the SOAP binding (not a block as not widely deployed)? 15:00:56 KC: David Wood's comments were substantial... as he's affiliated with UMD, I've had some offline discussion and I think he'll be satisfied with some minor editorial changes. 15:01:37 yep 15:02:04 Zakim, next item 15:02:04 agendum 3. "SPARQL Protocol and WSDL" taken up [from DanC] 15:02:26 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSep/0505.html Update and issues: ACTION: LeeF to draft WSDL 1.1 for SPARQL thingy with AndyS and Elias 15:02:43 DONE: ACTION: LeeF to draft WSDL 1.1 for SPARQL thingy with AndyS and Elias 15:05:45 discussion of protocol types... seq/all... the all construct we used seems to be invalid 15:06:13 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/proto-wd/sparql-protocol-types.xsd 15:06:18 Children of query-request : parent of default-graph-uri 15:06:43 PROPOSED: to change revert query-request from xs:all back to xs:seq 15:06:51 Schema issue: wants any number, any order of items 15:06:55 PROPOSED: to revert query-request from xs:all back to xs:seq 15:06:57 (just the first xs:all) 15:07:56 PROPOSED: to revert query-request from xs:all back to xs:seq, noting with regret this is due to limiations of XML Schema 15:07:58 kendall has joined #dawg 15:08:21 +1 15:08:40 zakim, mute me 15:08:40 Kendall_Clark should now be muted 15:08:57 so RESOLVED. 15:09:10 zakim, unmute me 15:09:10 Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted 15:09:20 zakim, mute me 15:09:20 Kendall_Clark should now be muted 15:09:20 ACTION KC: revert query-request from xs:all back to xs:seq and note this is due to limiations of XML Schema 15:09:42 zakim, unmute me 15:09:42 Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted 15:10:16 zakim, mute me 15:10:16 Kendall_Clark should now be muted 15:11:13 zakim, unmute me 15:11:13 Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted 15:11:40 here's as far as I got in 2001 - http://www.ilrt.bris.ac.uk/discovery/2001/09/rdf-xml-schema/ 15:15:36 ref to http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/REC-rdf-syntax-grammar-20040210/#section-RELAXNG-Schema 15:15:59 discussion of how to describe RDF/XML from WSDL ... whether to use XSD with any and a comment/annotation, or relax-ng per RDF/XML spec, or both 15:16:48 (a) from sparql-protocol types, reference an .xsd that gives a "stub" definition of rdf:RDF 15:16:50 LeeF: 1. Change the normative XSD to reference a basic RDF schema 15:17:20 LeeF: 2. Fork the XSD to have a copy for the WSDL 1.1 15:19:02 2. ... and keep the existing XSD description of rdf:RDF 15:20:16 3. Fork the XSD to have a stub XSD declaration of rdf:RDF for the WSDL 1.1, and a relax-ng description for normative WSDL 2.0 15:21:08 3. Fork the XSD. One copy has a stub XSD declaration of rdf:RDF for the WSDL 1.1. The other has a relax-ng description for normative WSDL 2.0 15:22:21 considered both stub XSD and relax-ng descriptions of rdf:RDF, but it doesn't seem to be technically possible. 15:23:25 Lee: I don't see much concrete benefit to using the relanx-ng description of rdf:RDF in this context 15:23:59 That was Elias 15:24:14 s/Lee: I/Elias: I/ 15:26:05 PROPOSED: To add a new schema doc, rdf.xsd, which sparql protocol types document imports. 15:26:10 (the "stub" should say 'any', plus have a link to the RDF/XML scpec) 15:27:46 It clearly sucks. :> 15:28:10 It's a choice between sucking but allowing tools to work easily, and not sucking but not allowing tools to work without jumping through hoops. 15:28:15 so RESOLVED. Hayes abstaining 15:28:16 0 objections, PatH abstaining 15:29:07 thx 15:29:11 see rdf.xsd in http://thefigtrees.net/DAWG/sparql-wsdl-1.1-note.html 15:29:52 ACTION KC: review sparql-types for xs:any weirdness 15:30:33 ACTION 6 = KC: review sparql-types for xs:any weirdness, w.r.t. WSDL 2.0 constraints 15:31:00 Zakim, mute me 15:31:00 EliasT should now be muted 15:31:35 15:32:18 http://www.w3.org/2005/08/sparql-protocol-query/ 15:33:20 KC's actions to send WSDL comments are DONE... 15:33:53 ACTION DanC: notifty DAWG of WSDL response to our WSDL comments 15:35:03 Is it feasible or sensible to add the WSDL 1.1 stuff as an appendix of our spec? 15:36:30 Zakim, unmute me 15:36:30 EliasT should no longer be muted 15:37:38 KC: Wondering whether the normative spec should reference the WSDL 1.1 Note. 15:37:47 Elias & Lee (?) seem to be okay with that 15:37:55 Yes. 15:38:32 ACTION EliasT: elaborate on how to use this WSDL 1.1 stuff with tools 15:38:40 that was Lee 15:39:14 ACTION 8 = Lee: elaborate on how to use this WSDL 1.1 stuff with tools 15:39:34 -EliasT 15:39:40 ACTION KC, EricP: review WSDL 1.1 sparql protocol publication candidate, once a candidate pointer is mailed to the WG 15:40:15 I want the right to say Elias is a big meanie! :> 15:40:55 ACTION DanC: help with SOTD of WSDL 1.1 sparql protocol 15:41:25 kendall, I think its in the constitution. 15:41:32 ACTION 9 = DanC: publish WSDL 1.1 sparql protocol note, contingent on thumbs-up from KC, EricP, Lee/Elias 15:41:59 Zakim, next item 15:41:59 agendum 4. "issues#sort" taken up [from DanC] 15:42:19 pat: ah, yes. thankx. 15:43:03 EliasT has joined #dawg 15:43:18 -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/ 1.493 stuff on < and ORDER 15:43:31 http://unagi/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#defn_Ordered 15:43:44 The "<" operator (see the Operator Mapping Table) defines the relative order of pairs of numerics, xs:dateTimes and xs:strings. 15:44:35 If the ordering condition is a named variable, RDF Literals are compared with the "<" operator (see below) where 15:44:38 possible. 15:44:57 ^ new and older, resp. 15:45:03 2005-09-27T11:30:39Z i.e. if ?a has the bindings "b", "a", "c", we want to ORDER ?a and ORDER str(?a) to be the same 15:51:27 Zakim, next item 15:51:27 agendum 5. "BASE IRI resolution comment **" taken up 15:51:35 Zakim, take up item 7 15:51:35 agendum 7. "issues#rdfSemantics, issues#owlDisjunction **" taken up [from DanC] 15:52:32 at http://www.w3.org/2005/09/20-dawg-irc 15:52:59 DONE: ACTION Pat: summarize the entailment consensus 15:53:21 ACTION Bijon: take a pass through the editor's draft, listing what will change with the new semantics understanding, and what will not [CONTINUES] 15:53:43 ACTION Enrico: take a pass through the editor's draft, listing what will change with the new semantics understanding ... [CONTINUES] 15:53:47 -PatH 15:54:31 Zakim, close item 8 15:54:31 agendum 8, SPARQL QL grammar, issues#punctuationSyntax, closed 15:54:32 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 15:54:33 5. BASE IRI resolution comment ** 15:54:37 Zakim, close item 7 15:54:37 agendum 7, issues#rdfSemantics, issues#owlDisjunction **, closed 15:54:38 I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 15:54:39 5. BASE IRI resolution comment ** 15:54:42 Zakim, take up item 8 15:54:42 agendum 8. "SPARQL QL grammar, issues#punctuationSyntax" taken up [from DanC] 15:55:17 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSep/0470.html test reviews 15:55:45 everything under SyntaxDev, as discussed in 0470 15:55:49 ^right? 15:56:36 ammendment: don't approve syntax-struct-04.rq 15:57:27 ACTION EricP: fix test schema to match manifest with negative tests 15:57:41 there are two other duplicates: syntax-form-construct05.rq and syntax-form-ask-01.rq 15:57:41 nor syntax-form-construct06.rq, syntax-form-ask-02 15:58:35 PROPOSED: to approve SyntaxDev, as discussed in 0470, without dups 15:58:42 so RESOLVED. 15:59:26 AFS: grammar is in yakker, not yet in rq23... also there's some BNODE renaming stuff... 16:00:34 ACTION AFS: propose resolution to punctuationSyntax, folding recent yakker grammar into editor's draft 16:01:08 ADJOURN. 16:01:09 -HPLB 16:01:14 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 16:01:14 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-minutes.html DanC 16:01:22 RRSAgent, make logs world-access 16:01:30 -LeeF 16:01:33 DanC, ericP or whomever else: EliasT has CVS check-in access under DataAccess, but if it's not a problem I could use it also to expedite getting the wsdl 1.1 stuff up there 16:01:50 hmm 16:02:16 If it's a problem, I'll just get Elias to do it for me :-) 16:02:20 do you have an ssh2 key? 16:02:48 ericp seems interested to help 16:02:52 LeeF, mail me your pub key 16:02:58 Eric - 5 mins on another thing thing? 16:02:59 or paste it 16:03:09 AndyS, can do 16:03:10 Eric - 5 mins on another sorting thing? 16:03:12 let me find it, I use it rarely at most =) 16:03:20 Phone? 16:03:21 -Kendall_Clark 16:03:24 Meeting: RDF Data Access Weekly 16:03:30 Chair: DanC 16:03:35 ericP - will mail it to you a bit later - thanks 16:03:35 Scribe: KC 16:03:41 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 16:03:41 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-minutes.html DanC 16:04:07 Zakim, bye 16:04:07 leaving. As of this point the attendees were +1.781.405.aaaa, PatH, Kendall_Clark, AndyS, DaveB, LeeF, DanC, EricP, EliasT, Souri 16:04:07 Zakim has left #dawg 16:04:12 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 16:04:12 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-minutes.html DanC 16:06:25 bijan has joined #dawg 16:10:59 hey, did anyone want to talk about something with me? Im back now. 16:12:26 I think ericp wanted to talk with you, patH, but he might have gotten what he needs from AndyS 16:13:31 OK, great. Bye then, back to work. 16:13:35 request on ExprBuiltins/result-str-2.ttl change "01 ;' to '01"^^xsd:integer' 16:20:03 RRSAgent, list actions 16:20:03 I see 13 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-actions.rdf : 16:20:03 ACTION: DanC to follow up re optional test based on op:dateTime triple [continues] [1] 16:20:03 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-irc#T14-40-35 16:20:03 ACTION: DaveB to to propose source test to approve [continues] [2] 16:20:03 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-irc#T14-40-44 16:20:03 ACTION: ericp to draft lang-match design, summarizing and citing RFC3066 [continues] [3] 16:20:03 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-irc#T14-40-54 16:20:03 ACTION: EricP to arrange for 200 response from http://www.w3.org/2005/08/sparql-protocol-query/ [4] 16:20:03 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-irc#T14-48-35 16:20:03 ACTION: KC to revert query-request from xs:all back to xs:seq and note this is due to limiations of XML Schema [5] 16:20:03 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-irc#T15-09-20-2 16:20:03 ACTION: KC: review sparql-types for xs:any weirdness, w.r.t. WSDL 2.0 constraints [6] 16:20:03 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-irc#T15-29-52 16:20:03 ACTION: DanC to notifty DAWG of WSDL response to our WSDL comments [7] 16:20:03 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-irc#T15-33-53 16:20:03 ACTION: Lee: elaborate on how to use this WSDL 1.1 stuff with tools [8] 16:20:03 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-irc#T15-38-32 16:20:03 ACTION: DanC: publish WSDL 1.1 sparql protocol note, contingent on thumbs-up from KC, EricP, Lee/Elias [9] 16:20:03 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-irc#T15-40-55 16:20:03 ACTION: Bijon to take a pass through the editor's draft, listing what will change with the new semantics understanding, and what will not [CONTINUES] [10] 16:20:03 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-irc#T15-53-21 16:20:03 ACTION: Enrico to take a pass through the editor's draft, listing what will change with the new semantics understanding ... [CONTINUES] [11] 16:20:03 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-irc#T15-53-43 16:20:03 ACTION: EricP to fix test schema to match manifest with negative tests [12] 16:20:03 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-irc#T15-57-27 16:20:03 ACTION: AFS to propose resolution to punctuationSyntax, folding recent yakker grammar into editor's draft [13] 16:20:03 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-irc#T16-00-34 16:21:10 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 16:21:10 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/09/27-dawg-minutes.html DanC 16:22:29 RRSAgent, stop