19:43:53 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
19:43:53 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/09/15-wai-wcag-irc
19:43:57 <wendy> RRSAgent, make logs world
19:44:02 <wendy> zakim, this will be wcag
19:44:02 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled near this time, wendy
19:44:10 <wendy> ?
19:44:21 <wendy> zakim, list conferences
19:44:21 <Zakim> I see XML_QueryWG(ttf)3:00PM active and no others scheduled near this time
19:44:34 <ben> zakim, this will be WAI
19:44:34 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled near this time, ben
19:45:29 <wendy> yep. 
19:48:34 <wendy> zakim, this is wcag
19:48:34 <Zakim> ok, wendy; that matches WAI_WCAG()4:00PM
19:48:39 <Zakim> +Amy
19:48:42 <Zakim> -Wendy
19:48:43 <Zakim> +Wendy
19:49:03 <Zakim> -Amy
19:49:06 <Zakim> -Wendy
19:49:07 <Zakim> WAI_WCAG()4:00PM has ended
19:49:08 <Zakim> Attendees were Wendy, Amy
19:52:28 <wendy> regrets: Roberto Ellero, Roberto Scano, Roberto Castaldo, Takayuki Watanabe, Rob Haverty, Yvette Hoitink
19:53:09 <wendy> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2005JulSep/0794.html
19:53:39 <wendy> agenda+ Approve Team Task Force Work Statement http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2005/09/teamtf.html
19:54:02 <wendy> agenda+ Team A 3.2 proposals http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/3-2-proposals-teama/results
19:54:34 <wendy> agenda+ Team B 3.1 proposals http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20050914meaning/results
19:54:52 <wendy> agenda+ Team C 2.5 issues http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/teamc-bugzilla-1/results
19:54:59 <David_MacDonald> David_MacDonald has joined #wai-wcag
19:55:11 <David_MacDonald> anyone home
19:55:16 <wendy> agenda+ Example guide document for 1.1 L1 SC1 http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2005/09/end-to-end/text-equiv-informative.html
19:57:41 <Zakim> WAI_WCAG()4:00PM has now started
19:57:48 <Zakim> +??P5
19:59:44 <Zakim> +Loretta_Guarino_Reid
19:59:47 <Zakim> -??P5
19:59:48 <Zakim> +??P5
20:00:09 <Makoto> Makoto has joined #wai-wcag
20:00:10 <Michael> Michael has joined #wai-wcag
20:00:52 <Christophe> Christophe has joined #wai-wcag
20:01:19 <Zakim> +Andi_Snow_Weaver
20:01:37 <Zakim> +Wendy
20:01:48 <Zakim> +John_Slatin
20:01:50 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
20:01:57 <wendy> zakim, who's on the phone?
20:01:57 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P5, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Wendy, John_Slatin, [IPcaller]
20:01:59 <Andi> Andi has joined #wai-wcag
20:02:02 <Zakim> +??P9
20:02:03 <Makoto> zakim, [IPcaller] is Makoto_Ueki
20:02:03 <Zakim> +Makoto_Ueki; got it
20:02:10 <Zakim> +??P11
20:02:12 <wendy> zakim, ??P5 is David_MacDonald
20:02:12 <Zakim> +David_MacDonald; got it
20:02:19 <wendy> zakim, who's on the phone?
20:02:19 <Zakim> On the phone I see David_MacDonald, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Wendy, John_Slatin, Makoto_Ueki, ??P9, ??P11
20:02:30 <Zakim> -??P9
20:02:33 <Zakim> +Christophe_Strobbe
20:02:41 <Zakim> +Sofia_Celic
20:02:43 <wendy> zakim, ??P11 is Gian_Sampson-Wild
20:02:43 <Zakim> +Gian_Sampson-Wild; got it
20:04:24 <Zakim> +Becky_Gibson
20:04:28 <wendy> scribe: David_MacDonald
20:04:38 <Becky> Becky has joined #wai-wcag
20:04:41 <Zakim> +??P14
20:04:53 <wendy> zakim, ??P14 is Gregg_and_Ben
20:04:53 <Zakim> +Gregg_and_Ben; got it
20:04:57 <Zakim> +Michael_Cooper
20:05:00 <Zakim> + +1.262.605.aaaa
20:05:37 <Zakim> - +1.262.605.aaaa
20:06:29 <wendy> ben - gv is trying to call you.
20:06:35 <Zakim> + +1.262.605.aabb
20:06:37 <Zakim> - +1.262.605.aabb
20:07:17 <David_MacDonald> test
20:07:18 <Zakim> +Matt_May
20:07:33 <wendy> zakim, who's on the phone?
20:07:33 <Zakim> On the phone I see David_MacDonald, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Wendy, John_Slatin, Makoto_Ueki, Gian_Sampson-Wild, Christophe_Strobbe, Sofia_Celic, Becky_Gibson,
20:07:37 <Zakim> ... Gregg_and_Ben, Michael_Cooper, Matt_May
20:07:41 <jslatinOFHNetIRC> jslatinOFHNetIRC has joined #wai-wcag
20:07:42 <gregg> gregg has joined #wai-wcag
20:08:29 <Zakim> + +1.908.963.aacc
20:08:49 <wendy> zakim, +1.908 is Tim_Boland-en-route
20:08:49 <Zakim> +Tim_Boland-en-route; got it
20:09:55 <wendy> zakim, take up item 1
20:09:55 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Approve Team Task Force Work Statement http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2005/09/teamtf.html" taken up [from wendy]
20:10:59 <David_MacDonald> resolution: unanimous consent to team task force work statement
20:11:09 <wendy> zakim, next item
20:11:09 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Team A 3.2 proposals http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/3-2-proposals-teama/results" taken up [from wendy]
20:11:39 <Zakim> +??P18
20:12:21 <bengt> bengt has joined #wai-wcag
20:12:33 <Zakim> +??P19
20:12:37 <David_MacDonald> lg: asks where else is this required...
20:13:41 <wendy> 4.2 L1 SC 6 Changes to content, structure, selection, focus, attributes, values, state, and relationships within the content can be programmatically determined. 
20:13:55 <David_MacDonald> asw: thought sophia says L1SC6 addresses this. 
20:14:39 <David_MacDonald> sc: said she thought it partially covered it
20:15:29 <Michael> q+
20:15:30 <David_MacDonald> gv: difference if AT can see changes vs...notifying change...
20:15:46 <David_MacDonald> lg: in practise needs to be notification
20:16:23 <ben> q+
20:16:34 <Andi> q+
20:16:53 <wendy> ack mi
20:17:17 <David_MacDonald> mc: intent of sc was prog...determined inadvance of change...
20:17:21 <bengt> bengt has joined #wai-wcag
20:17:26 <wendy> ack b
20:17:28 <gregg> Q+
20:17:46 <David_MacDonald> bc: we took advance warning out in brussels
20:18:23 <wendy> ack an
20:18:33 <David_MacDonald> zakim, mute me
20:18:33 <Zakim> David_MacDonald should now be muted
20:19:07 <David_MacDonald> asw: need to clarify what a change of context is
20:22:16 <bengt> bengt has joined #wai-wcag
20:23:22 <David_MacDonald> gv: on to defn... "change of context"....used to say user agent controls which was removed..so it wouln't inhibit show hide behaviour
20:23:29 <ben> current definition: http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/#context-changedef
20:24:35 <David_MacDonald> gv: if its up to the author to notify what would that notificatin be
20:26:48 <bengt> bengt has joined #wai-wcag
20:26:52 <David_MacDonald> mc: unsure what sc are fulfilling this removed one...i'm siding with lg...on this...initial thought is that functional outcome...
20:28:16 <mcmay> mcmay has joined #wai-wcag
20:28:40 <David_MacDonald> sc: thought change in context had to do with opening a new window etc...
20:29:17 <David_MacDonald> sc: thought user interface was UA bars...
20:29:41 <mcmay> mcmay has left #wai-wcag
20:30:02 <mcmay> mcmay has joined #wai-wcag
20:30:15 <gregg> ack j
20:30:17 <gregg> ack g
20:30:19 <gregg> ack l
20:30:38 <David_MacDonald> sc: a flash movie is all delivered but can have an entirly different UA delivered with every click
20:32:15 <David_MacDonald> wc: don't believe we should say "main" because it is not enough.
20:33:09 <Andi> q+
20:33:27 <bengt> bengt has joined #wai-wcag
20:34:05 <David_MacDonald> gv: changing a menu item should be included.. we should put UA controls back in..."main" doesn't cover that
20:34:18 <David_MacDonald> s/gv/wc
20:34:53 <David_MacDonald> dm: notes last comment is from wendy not gregg
20:36:43 <David_MacDonald> wc: maybe we don't need this defn..there is other ways to say it
20:36:52 <wendy> ack andi
20:36:54 <wendy> ack lor
20:39:48 <Zakim> -Tim_Boland-en-route
20:40:41 <David_MacDonald> gv: if all the info is exposed a change in context being Prog determined is fairly easy...if change is content is prog determined then change in context can
20:41:25 <David_MacDonald> js: changes within content vs changes like a media player that opens a new window...perhaps two different concepts experiencially
20:42:58 <bengt> bengt has joined #wai-wcag
20:44:18 <David_MacDonald> gv: seems we need a defn..it occurs in 4 important places
20:44:46 <David_MacDonald> gv: everyone agrees it shouldn't mean little changes
20:51:39 <David_MacDonald> zakim, unmute me
20:51:39 <Zakim> David_MacDonald should no longer be muted
20:52:48 <bengt> bengt has joined #wai-wcag
20:53:43 <David_MacDonald> zakim, mute me
20:53:43 <Zakim> David_MacDonald should now be muted
20:54:44 <Zakim> -??P18
20:56:38 <David_MacDonald> asw: suggest adopt the defn...leave out controls...and make work item to address Sophia's concerns
20:58:19 <David_MacDonald> action: make a proposal to have an action item to cover Sophia's concerns about the one or all, losing all the controls...Sophia
20:59:29 <wendy> action 1 = Sofia make a proposal to have an action item to cover concern about losing user agent user interface controls
21:05:23 <wendy> q?
21:07:27 <wendy> act of receiving focus can't cause a change of focus
21:07:28 <gregg> ack j
21:08:13 <David_MacDonald> gv: is a change of focus a change of context...yes says the group...
21:09:20 <David_MacDonald> gv: ie...you type your phone in a form and it shoots you somewhere else....but perhaps the "next" field is an exception
21:09:26 <Michael> q+
21:09:51 <David_MacDonald> lg: no...it will cause confusion
21:10:12 <David_MacDonald> mc: yup....because bksp won't work
21:10:41 <David_MacDonald> mc: says it will cause confusion...if automatic next field is used
21:11:09 <David_MacDonald> zakim, unmute me
21:11:09 <Zakim> David_MacDonald should no longer be muted
21:11:15 <bengt> bengt has joined #wai-wcag
21:11:25 <David_MacDonald> q+
21:11:46 <Zakim> +??P0
21:11:54 <wendy> q+ to say what does "main' mean for an app?
21:11:59 <bengt> zakim, ??p0 is Bengt
21:11:59 <Zakim> +Bengt; got it
21:12:03 <wendy> ack lor
21:12:04 <Michael> ack michael
21:13:21 <wendy> ack david
21:15:37 <David_MacDonald> zakim, mute me
21:15:37 <Zakim> David_MacDonald should now be muted
21:15:51 <wendy> q-
21:15:54 <wendy> ack j
21:16:16 <wendy> q+
21:17:24 <wendy> ack q
21:19:29 <David_MacDonald> wc: "main" is ambiguous and percentages are rat holes....I suggest action item...to talk about the types of changes we are talking about focusing on functional outcomes
21:20:17 <David_MacDonald> wc: the group is divided and we need an action I think ... Team A
21:20:53 <David_MacDonald> action: Team A will look at better words than "complete" and "main"
21:23:09 <wendy> q-
21:23:27 <David_MacDonald> gv: delete SC...cause it is covered elsewhere...(1.1 all sc's at level 1)
21:24:08 <ben> q+
21:24:14 <gregg> ack l
21:24:55 <David_MacDonald> lg: think it needs to be changed rather than removed
21:25:21 <Zakim> -Matt_May
21:25:30 <Becky> q+
21:26:03 <Zakim> +Matt_May
21:26:44 <Becky> q-
21:27:08 <Zakim> -Gian_Sampson-Wild
21:27:37 <ben> ack b
21:28:03 <Zakim> +??P2
21:28:32 <Michael> q+
21:28:53 <wendy> ack jo
21:28:58 <wendy> ack mi
21:29:28 <David_MacDonald> js: we removed it partly beause we couldn't figure out how to do it at level 1
21:32:01 <David_MacDonald> resolution: 3.2 sc1 level 1, 
21:32:26 <David_MacDonald> resolution: remove 3.2 sc1 level 1, 
21:37:14 <David_MacDonald> zakim, unmute me
21:37:14 <Zakim> David_MacDonald should no longer be muted
21:38:37 <David_MacDonald> resolution: move level 3.2  L2 sc 2 to level 1
21:41:29 <David_MacDonald> resolution: put "same relative order" into the sc and define same same relative order...each item maintains position relative to other items... unanimous
21:42:35 <ben> resolution: replace "same order" with "same relative order" in 3.2 L2 SC1
21:42:35 <David_MacDonald> 	resolution: put "same relative order" into the sc and define same same relative order...each item maintains its position relative to the other items... unanimous
21:43:54 <ben> resolution: define "same relative order" as, "Each item maintains its position relative to the other items.  Items are considered to be in the same order even if other items are inserted or removed from the original order."
21:45:45 <Zakim> -Makoto_Ueki
21:46:57 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
21:49:27 <David_MacDonald> gv: we left L2 sc1 at Level 2 will not move to level three but are open to comments about it being too restrictive.
21:49:48 <Makoto> Makoto has joined #wai-wcag
21:55:17 <David_MacDonald> action: Team B will look further at 2.3 Level 3 SC 5
21:55:55 <David_MacDonald> action 3=  Team B will look further at 3.2 Level 3 SC 5
21:58:53 <David_MacDonald> resolution: one or more of the following types of supplemental content is available:
21:59:15 <ben> scribe: ben
21:59:19 <Zakim> -David_MacDonald
21:59:54 <wendy> resolution: replace supplement with supplemental content
22:00:00 <wendy> resolution: adopt defn
22:00:58 <ben> resolution: adopt proposed definition of "supplemental content": Additional content that illustrates or clarifies default text content, which users may use instead of or in addition to the default text content. For example, there may be supplements in text, graphics, and audio.
22:01:37 <ben> resolved: do not include propsed definition of "education level"
22:05:55 <ben> resolved: accept definition of "Lower secondary education level" as the two- or three-year period of education that begins after completion of six years of school and ends nine years after the beginning of primary education" and include a note about UNESCO.
22:08:27 <ben> resolved: define "Primary education level" as "the six year time period that begins between the ages of five and seven possibly without any previous education" and include a reference to UNESCO.
22:09:25 <ben> resolved: close all items that were unanimous in 2.5 issues survey
22:11:13 <ben> action: john talk with michael about concerns w/ 1744
22:12:08 <ben> reminder to fill out registration for October face to face - http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/octf2f/
22:13:33 <ben> RRSAgent, generate minutes
22:13:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/09/15-wai-wcag-minutes.html ben
22:13:56 <ben> RRSAgent, make log world
22:14:14 <ben> Meeting: WCAG Weekly Telecon
22:14:16 <Zakim> -??P19
22:14:25 <Zakim> -Wendy
22:14:26 <Zakim> -Loretta_Guarino_Reid
22:14:27 <Zakim> -Becky_Gibson
22:14:28 <Zakim> -Matt_May
22:14:29 <Zakim> -Sofia_Celic
22:14:30 <Zakim> -??P2
22:14:31 <Zakim> -John_Slatin
22:14:33 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
22:14:34 <Zakim> -Bengt
22:14:35 <Zakim> -Christophe_Strobbe
22:14:37 <Zakim> -Andi_Snow_Weaver
22:14:39 <Zakim> -Gregg_and_Ben
22:14:40 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
22:14:42 <Zakim> WAI_WCAG()4:00PM has ended
22:14:44 <Zakim> Attendees were Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Wendy, John_Slatin, Makoto_Ueki, David_MacDonald, Christophe_Strobbe, Sofia_Celic, Gian_Sampson-Wild, Becky_Gibson,
22:14:47 <Zakim> ... Gregg_and_Ben, Michael_Cooper, +1.262.605.aaaa, +1.262.605.aabb, Matt_May, +1.908.963.aacc, Tim_Boland-en-route, Bengt, [IPcaller]
22:15:13 <ben> Zakim, bye
22:15:13 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wai-wcag
22:15:25 <ben> chair: Gregg
22:15:33 <ben> RRSagent, generate minutes
22:15:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/09/15-wai-wcag-minutes.html ben
22:16:27 <mcmay> mcmay has left #wai-wcag
22:16:41 <bengt> bengt has left #wai-wcag
22:17:15 <wendy> thx ben
22:17:37 <wendy> argh - i didn't specify david's nick correctly...
22:19:06 <ben> :(
22:19:57 <wendy> RRSAgent, generate minutes
22:19:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/09/15-wai-wcag-minutes.html wendy
22:20:54 <Christophe> <link>s to CSS files and <img>s are also weird: 15-wai-wcag-minutes_files/base.css etc.
22:23:27 <Christophe> Christophe has left #wai-wcag
22:24:53 <wendy> RRSAgent, bye
22:24:53 <RRSAgent> I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/15-wai-wcag-actions.rdf :
22:24:53 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Sofia make a proposal to have an action item to cover concern about losing user agent user interface controls [1]
22:24:53 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/15-wai-wcag-irc#T20-58-19
22:24:53 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Team A will look at better words than "complete" and "main" [2]
22:24:53 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/15-wai-wcag-irc#T21-20-53
22:24:53 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Team B will look further at 3.2 Level 3 SC 5 [3]
22:24:53 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/15-wai-wcag-irc#T21-55-17
22:24:53 <RRSAgent> ACTION: john talk with michael about concerns w/ 1744 [4]
22:24:53 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/15-wai-wcag-irc#T22-11-13