IRC log of wcag-teamb on 2005-09-14

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:11:54 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #wcag-teamb

14:11:54 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-wcag-teamb-irc

14:12:00 [wendy]

zakim, this will be wcag

14:12:00 [Zakim]

ok, wendy; I see WAI_WCAG(techniques)10:00AM scheduled to start 12 minutes ago

14:12:12 [wendy]

zakim, ping me in 40 minutes

14:12:12 [Zakim]

ok, wendy

14:39:37 [Yvette]

hi Wendy

14:40:05 [rscano]

rscano has joined #wcag-teamb

14:40:34 [Yvette]

Ciao machissimo :-)

14:40:36 [rscano]

hi :D

14:40:41 [rscano]

http://europa.eu.int/information_society/policy/accessibility/com_ea_2005/index_en.htm fresh from today

14:41:39 [rscano]

hi Wendy :)

14:42:24 [Yvette]

Nice, I'm a member of of certifying organization here in the Netherlands :-) We should get plenty of new applications if people in the Netherlands start living up to this

14:45:46 [rscano]

cool

14:46:20 [rscano]

what about change of language? :D

14:47:26 [Yvette]

what do you mean?

14:47:51 [bengt]

bengt has joined #wcag-teamb

14:47:54 [rscano]

"lang" attribute for words

14:47:56 [rscano]

hi bengt

14:47:59 [Yvette]

AARRRGGGH

14:48:00 [Yvette]

:-)

14:48:02 [rscano]

:)

14:52:12 [Zakim]

wendy, you asked to be pinged at this time

14:55:36 [rscano]

+1.617.761.6200, conference

14:55:36 [rscano]

92242 ("WCAG2") ?

14:56:29 [bengt]

zakim, this is wcag-teamb

14:56:29 [Zakim]

sorry, bengt, I do not see a conference named 'wcag-teamb' in progress or scheduled at this time

14:56:40 [bengt]

zakim, what conferences

14:56:40 [Zakim]

bengt, you need to end that query with '?'

14:56:42 [bengt]

zakim, what conferences?

14:56:42 [Zakim]

I see I18N_TS()10:00AM, Team_W3M()8:00AM active

14:56:44 [Zakim]

also scheduled at this time are XML_Core()11:00AM, DI_DIWG()10:00AM, WAI_WCAG(techniques)10:00AM, MM_MMI(ink)11:00AM, P3P_SpecWG()11:00AM, MM_MMI(dialog)11:00AM, HTML_WG()10:00AM

14:56:53 [rscano]

ah standard WAI_WCAG

14:58:32 [jslatinOFHNetIRC]

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14:58:41 [Yvette]

Hi John

14:58:47 [jslatinOFHNetIRC]

Hi, Yvette!

14:58:56 [Yvette]

hmm, my passcode isn't valid

14:59:07 [rscano]

yep also mine

14:59:11 [jslatinOFHNetIRC]

were you trying 92248?

14:59:22 [Yvette]

nope, 92242 (wcag team 2)

14:59:40 [jslatinOFHNetIRC]

wendy's email yesterday said 92248 (the old TTF code)

15:00:01 [wendy]

correct - old TTF code - 92248

15:00:13 [rscano]

the call is rescrited at this time....

15:00:29 [bengt]

yep no teamb id

15:00:32 [Yvette]

ah ok

15:00:32 [Zakim]

WAI_WCAG(techniques)10:00AM has now started

15:00:35 [Zakim]

+Wendy

15:00:46 [jslatinOFHNetIRC]

call just started- we should be able to get in now

15:01:06 [Zakim]

+??P6

15:01:14 [Yvette]

zakim, ??P6 is Yvette_Hoitink

15:01:14 [Zakim]

+Yvette_Hoitink; got it

15:01:28 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

15:01:29 [Zakim]

+??P9

15:01:34 [Zakim]

-??P9

15:01:36 [Zakim]

+Diane_Stottlemyer

15:01:47 [wendy]

zakim, IPcaller is Roberto_Scano

15:01:47 [Zakim]

+Roberto_Scano; got it

15:01:54 [wendy]

zakim, who's here?

15:01:54 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Wendy, Yvette_Hoitink, Roberto_Scano, Diane_Stottlemyer

15:01:57 [Zakim]

On IRC I see jslatinOFHNetIRC, bengt, rscano, RRSAgent, Zakim, wendy, Yvette

15:02:05 [Zakim]

+Becky_Gibson

15:02:23 [Zakim]

+Loretta_Guarino_Reid

15:02:38 [Becky]

Becky has joined #wcag-teamb

15:02:41 [Zakim]

+[IWA-HWG]

15:02:54 [rscano]

IWA/HWG? :-/

15:03:10 [Yvette]

Bengt, did you just join?

15:03:11 [Zakim]

+John_Slatin

15:03:14 [bengt]

me ?

15:03:24 [Zakim]

-[IWA-HWG]

15:03:35 [Yvette]

yes, we had an unidentified number on the phone (ip-caller)

15:04:05 [wendy]

zakim, who's on the phone?

15:04:05 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Wendy, Yvette_Hoitink, Roberto_Scano, Diane_Stottlemyer, Becky_Gibson, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, John_Slatin

15:04:35 [Yvette]

zakim, who's making noise?

15:04:47 [Zakim]

Yvette, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Roberto_Scano (57%), Becky_Gibson (23%), John_Slatin (4%), Wendy (57%)

15:04:57 [rscano]

zakim, mute me

15:04:57 [Zakim]

sorry, rscano, I do not see a party named 'rscano'

15:05:06 [rscano]

zakim, I am Roberto_Scano

15:05:06 [Zakim]

ok, rscano, I now associate you with Roberto_Scano

15:05:10 [rscano]

zakim, mute me

15:05:10 [Zakim]

Roberto_Scano should now be muted

15:08:57 [wendy]

Topic: defn of abbreviationa and acronym

15:09:15 [rscano]

suggest: http://www.google.it/search?q=define:acronym&hl=it&lr=&defl=en

15:09:41 [rscano]

An abbreviation of the first letters of a phrase or the long name of an organization that forms a word or conveys a message. In electronic communication or online documents, acronyms are used as writing shorthand or a method to communicate humor. Examples include IMHO (in my humble opinion), F2F (face-to-face), and WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get). See http://www.marshall.edu/isp/ct107/emoticons.html for an online reference to frequently-used acronyms

15:09:41 [rscano]

www.csus.edu/uccs/training/online/glossary.htm

15:10:00 [Yvette]

q+ to say "two techniques"

15:10:27 [wendy]

ack yv

15:10:27 [Zakim]

Yvette, you wanted to say "two techniques"

15:11:29 [Zakim]

+??P17

15:12:10 [bengt]

bengt has joined #wcag-teamb

15:13:08 [Yvette]

zakim, ??P17 is Bengt_Farre

15:13:08 [Zakim]

+Bengt_Farre; got it

15:13:15 [Yvette]

zakim, bengt is Bengt_Farre

15:13:15 [Zakim]

+Bengt_Farre; got it

15:14:51 [rscano]

what about cases of words that are inside dictionary like: <ACRONYM TITLE="radio

15:14:51 [rscano]

detecting and ranging">radar</ACRONYM> ?

15:15:35 [wendy]

roberto? can you get into queue add this to the discussion?

15:15:42 [rscano]

opp sorry

15:15:59 [rscano]

q+ to say "what about cases of words that are inside dictionary like: <ACRONYM TITLE="radio detecting and ranging">radar</ACRONYM>"

15:16:04 [wendy]

thx

15:16:41 [wendy]

ack rober

15:16:42 [Zakim]

Roberto_Scano, you wanted to say "what about cases of words that are inside dictionary like: <ACRONYM TITLE="radio detecting and ranging">radar</ACRONYM>"

15:18:10 [wendy]

some cases don't need to mark - AM, PM, RADAR, TV

15:19:10 [leasa]

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15:19:15 [rscano]

zakim, mute me

15:19:15 [Zakim]

Roberto_Scano should now be muted

15:19:24 [leasa]

Sorry I am running late - other call

15:21:49 [wendy]

proposed - A mechanism is available for identifying specific definitions of words used in an unusual or restricted way, including idioms, jargon, acronyms, and abbreviations. (include acronyms? "deprecate" going forward?)

15:21:55 [Zakim]

-Bengt_Farre.a

15:21:58 [Yvette]

zakim, mute me

15:21:58 [Zakim]

Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted

15:22:04 [bengt_]

bengt_ has joined #wcag-teamb

15:22:04 [Zakim]

+Luca_Mascaro

15:22:38 [wendy]

zakim, Luca is Bengt

15:22:38 [Zakim]

+Bengt; got it

15:23:13 [Yvette]

q+

15:23:33 [Yvette]

zakim, unmute me

15:23:33 [Zakim]

Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted

15:23:38 [wendy]

ack y

15:23:58 [wendy]

remove "acronym" since an HTML element

15:24:08 [Zakim]

+??P17

15:24:17 [wendy]

zakim, ??P17 is Lisa

15:24:17 [Zakim]

+Lisa; got it

15:26:43 [wendy]

proposed - A mechanism is available for identifying specific definitions of words used in an restricted way, including idioms, jargon, and abbreviations. remove unusual because not testable. include abbreviations because some are more confusing if expanded (e.g., RADAR or AM, similar to not marking up "rendevous" as french in an english passage)

15:27:03 [wendy]

unusual - what about irony? sarcasm? ambiguity?

15:27:06 [bengt_]

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15:27:33 [wendy]

covered under "restricted" because restricting definition to a particular one.

15:28:28 [Yvette]

q+

15:28:37 [wendy]

ack yv

15:28:55 [leasa]

q+

15:30:36 [wendy]

proposed - A mechanism is available for identifying specific definitions of words used in an restricted way, including idioms, jargon, and abbreviations. remove unusual because not testable. include abbreviations because some are more confusing if expanded (e.g., RADAR or AM, similar to not marking up "rendevous" as french in an english passage)

15:31:13 [wendy]

ack l

15:33:02 [wendy]

restricted way - there are times when a word has multiple defns and as an author, only one of those makes is useful for what i want to say.

15:33:44 [wendy]

lisa is against removing word unusual

15:34:06 [wendy]

action: becky and john work on wording of SC

15:34:57 [wendy]

action 1 = becky and john work on working of SC and defns of abbreviation and acronym

15:36:19 [rscano]

need url?

15:37:07 [rscano]

Ok :)

15:38:13 [wendy]

action: roberto combine bidirectional text posts with lisa's and send to list.

15:38:35 [Zakim]

-Bengt

15:38:56 [wendy]

Topic: specifying language

15:39:05 [wendy]

if HTMl 4.01, use just lang

15:39:14 [wendy]

if XHTML and serve as text/html, use both lang and xml:lang

15:39:27 [wendy]

if XHTML serve as text/html+xml, just xml:lang

15:39:29 [jslatinOFHNetIRC]

see GDoc for G 3.1 L1 SC1

15:39:50 [rscano]

text/html+xml is application/xhtml+xml

15:39:58 [wendy]

advisory for http and meta - but not consistently suppoted

15:40:13 [bengt_]

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15:40:32 [wendy]

meta only way to provide multiple primary languages as comma sep list

15:41:04 [wendy]

ack j

15:41:16 [Yvette]

q+

15:41:36 [wendy]

are the 3 choices above (based on "flavor") the 3 sufficient techniqeus?

15:42:01 [wendy]

ack y

15:43:08 [wendy]

can have a comma-sep list of langs in xml:lang?

15:44:03 [Zakim]

+??P1

15:44:12 [wendy]

what about html 3.2 and lower? if can't spec language, can't use to conform?

15:44:26 [bengt]

zakim, ??P1 is Bengt

15:44:26 [Zakim]

+Bengt; got it

15:44:31 [wendy]

what about flash?

15:44:43 [rscano]

DTD don't let to use language codes for XML:lang but only "language code"

15:45:11 [wendy]

PDF does support a lang attribute

15:45:21 [rscano]

<!ENTITY % i18n

15:45:21 [rscano]

"lang %LanguageCode; #IMPLIED

15:45:21 [rscano]

xml:lang %LanguageCode; #IMPLIED

15:45:21 [rscano]

dir (ltr|rtl) #IMPLIED"

15:45:21 [rscano]

>

15:47:22 [wendy]

action: john determine if can use comma-separate list in xml:lang

15:47:39 [wendy]

action: becky write up the 3 sufficient techniques for identifying language

15:49:36 [wendy]

Topic: definitin list proposal

15:49:40 [wendy]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wcag-teamb/2005Sep/att-0013/definitionlist-html-technique.htm

15:49:45 [rscano]

for action 3, for XHTML 1.0:

15:49:47 [rscano]

<!-- internationalization attributes

15:49:48 [rscano]

lang language code (backwards compatible)

15:49:48 [rscano]

xml:lang language code (as per XML 1.0 spec)

15:49:48 [rscano]

dir direction for weak/neutral text

15:49:48 [rscano]

-->

15:50:02 [rscano]

language code <> language "codes" so is not possible to have xml:lang="it, en, ..."

15:50:11 [wendy]

task should say "use the defn list elements to provide definitions/define words"

15:50:43 [wendy]

think that language codes is possible xml 1.1

15:50:55 [bengt_]

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15:51:20 [wendy]

action: becky determine if dl being deprecated in xhtml 2

15:51:27 [wendy]

otherwise, resolution: adopt the technique

15:52:21 [wendy]

Topic: definitions related to l3sc5

15:52:27 [wendy]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wcag-teamb/2005Sep/att-0043/gdoc_31l3sc5_alternatives_2005-09-12.htm

15:52:28 [rscano]

from a HTML WG Member (in MSN): dl are not deprecated in XHTML 2.0 http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/WD-xhtml2-20040722/mod-list.html#edef_list_dl

15:52:52 [rscano]

also as been extended with "nl"

15:52:54 [wendy]

drop action 5

15:52:59 [wendy]

zakim, drop action 5

15:53:00 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'drop action 5', wendy

15:53:40 [Zakim]

-Diane_Stottlemyer

15:55:28 [Zakim]

-Bengt

15:55:52 [wendy]

resolution: propose - supplement Additional content that illustrates or clarifies default text content, which users may use instead of or in addition to the default text content. For example, there may be supplements in text, graphics, and audio.

15:56:26 [wendy]

resolution: propose - Education level Years of school completed, or highest degree achieved.

15:58:41 [bengt_]

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15:58:43 [Yvette]

q+

15:58:57 [wendy]

ack y

16:01:56 [Zakim]

-Lisa

16:02:23 [bengt]

bengt has left #wcag-teamb

16:04:09 [wendy]

resolution: propose - Upper secondary education level - the approximate 3 year time period that typically begins at ages 15 or 16 usually after 9 years of full-time education according to the International Standard Classification of Education (UNESCO, 1997).

16:07:39 [Yvette]

q+

16:10:14 [leasa]

leasa has left #wcag-teamb

16:11:05 [wendy]

resolution: propose - Primary education level - the approximate 6 year time period that typically begins at ages 5, 6, or 7 possibly without any previous education, according to the International Standard Classification of Education (UNESCO, 1997).

16:11:36 [wendy]

may be issues with the wording of the SC - need some clarification.

16:13:12 [wendy]

trigger could be "requires reading level above.." and get rid of ambiguity that falls within upper secondary. "when text requires reading ability above the lower secondary education level"

16:13:24 [wendy]

action: john defn for lower secondary education level

16:15:14 [Zakim]

-Becky_Gibson

16:15:15 [rscano]

bye all!

16:15:16 [Zakim]

-Wendy

16:15:18 [Zakim]

-Loretta_Guarino_Reid

16:15:19 [Zakim]

-Yvette_Hoitink

16:15:25 [wendy]

action: wendy survey of definitions for thursday's call

16:15:28 [Zakim]

-John_Slatin

16:15:30 [Zakim]

-Roberto_Scano

16:15:31 [Zakim]

WAI_WCAG(techniques)10:00AM has ended

16:15:32 [Zakim]

Attendees were Wendy, Yvette_Hoitink, Diane_Stottlemyer, Roberto_Scano, Becky_Gibson, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, [IWA-HWG], John_Slatin, Bengt_Farre, Luca_Mascaro, Bengt, Lisa

16:15:34 [wendy]

action: wendy survey of other techniques and proposals for team for discussion.

16:15:56 [wendy]

action: wendy follow-up w/folks re: action items and next steps. some folks may focus on techs for other guidelines, others on guides.

16:16:37 [wendy]

Meeting: WCAG WG Team B (task force)

16:16:39 [wendy]

chair: wendy

16:16:41 [wendy]

scribe: wendy

16:16:49 [wendy]

RRSAgent, make logs world

16:17:08 [wendy]

RRSAgent, generate minutes

16:17:08 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-wcag-teamb-minutes.html wendy

16:19:31 [rscano]

rscano has left #wcag-teamb

16:49:01 [Yvette]

bye all

16:49:03 [Yvette]

Yvette has left #wcag-teamb

16:57:17 [wendy]

zakim, bye

16:57:17 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #wcag-teamb

16:57:20 [wendy]

RRSAgent, bye

16:57:20 [RRSAgent]

I see 9 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-wcag-teamb-actions.rdf :

16:57:20 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: becky and john work on working of SC and defns of abbreviation and acronym [1]

16:57:20 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-wcag-teamb-irc#T15-34-06

16:57:20 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: roberto combine bidirectional text posts with lisa's and send to list. [2]

16:57:20 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-wcag-teamb-irc#T15-38-13

16:57:20 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: john determine if can use comma-separate list in xml:lang [3]

16:57:20 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-wcag-teamb-irc#T15-47-22

16:57:20 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: becky write up the 3 sufficient techniques for identifying language [4]

16:57:20 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-wcag-teamb-irc#T15-47-39

16:57:20 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: becky determine if dl being deprecated in xhtml 2 [5]

16:57:20 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-wcag-teamb-irc#T15-51-20

16:57:20 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: john defn for lower secondary education level [6]

16:57:20 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-wcag-teamb-irc#T16-13-24

16:57:20 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: wendy survey of definitions for thursday's call [7]

16:57:20 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-wcag-teamb-irc#T16-15-25

16:57:20 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: wendy survey of other techniques and proposals for team for discussion. [8]

16:57:20 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-wcag-teamb-irc#T16-15-34

16:57:20 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: wendy follow-up w/folks re: action items and next steps. some folks may focus on techs for other guidelines, others on guides. [9]

16:57:20 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-wcag-teamb-irc#T16-15-56