IRC log of dawg on 2005-09-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:27:46 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #dawg

14:27:46 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/09/13-dawg-irc

14:27:53 [DanC]

Meeting: DAWG Weekly

14:28:59 [DanC]

Regrets: Souripriya_Das, JeenB

14:29:08 [DanC]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSep/att-0425/dawg-12sep.html__charset_us-ascii

14:29:16 [DanC]

agenda + Toward Protocol Last Call

14:29:25 [DanC]

agenda + SPARQL Protocol and WSDL

14:29:30 [LeeF]

Zakim, who's on the phone?

14:29:30 [Zakim]

sorry, LeeF, I don't know what conference this is

14:29:31 [Zakim]

On IRC I see RRSAgent, Yoshio, Zakim, DaveB, AndyS, EliasT, LeeF, SteveH, afs, ericP, DanC

14:29:33 [AndyS]

zakim, who is on the phone

14:29:33 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'who is on the phone', AndyS

14:29:34 [DanC]

agenda + comment: SPARQL Protocol: inconsistent parameter names

14:29:39 [DanC]

Zakim, this will be dawg

14:29:39 [Zakim]

ok, DanC, I see SW_DAWG()10:30AM already started

14:29:43 [AndyS]

zakim, who is on the phone?

14:29:43 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Lee_Feigenbaum, ??P20, ??P19

14:29:45 [Zakim]

+ +1.978.455.aaaa

14:29:59 [DanC]

agenda + issues#valueTesting : "language tag issues"

14:30:01 [EliasT]

Zakim, +1.978.455.aaaa is EliasT

14:30:05 [Zakim]

+EliasT; got it

14:30:05 [AndyS]

zakim, ??P20 is AndyS

14:30:06 [DanC]

agenda + BASE IRI resolution comment

14:30:07 [Zakim]

+AndyS; got it

14:30:11 [LeeF]

Zakim, Lee_Feigenbaum is LeeF

14:30:11 [Zakim]

+LeeF; got it

14:30:13 [Zakim]

+Yoshio

14:30:13 [DanC]

agenda + issues#valueTesting: handling type "error"s

14:30:19 [DanC]

agenda + issues#rdfSemantics

14:30:20 [DaveB]

Zakim, ??P19 is DaveB

14:30:21 [Zakim]

+DaveB; got it

14:30:25 [DanC]

agenda + issues#owlDisjunction

14:30:26 [Zakim]

+Kendall_Clark

14:30:31 [DanC]

agenda + SPARQL QL grammar

14:30:37 [DanC]

agenda + issues#badIRIRef

14:30:45 [Zakim]

+DanC

14:31:05 [DanC]

Zakim, take up item 1

14:31:05 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "Convene, take roll, review records and agenda" taken up [from DanC]

14:31:11 [DanC]

Zakim, who is on the phone?

14:31:11 [Zakim]

On the phone I see LeeF, AndyS, DaveB, EliasT, Yoshio, Kendall_Clark, DanC

14:31:17 [kendall]

kendall has joined #dawg

14:31:38 [DanC]

Zakim, pick a scribe

14:31:38 [Zakim]

Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose DaveB

14:32:12 [DanC]

DanC has changed the topic to: RDF Data Access 13 Sep scribe: DaveB

14:32:14 [DanC]

scribe: DaveB

14:32:16 [SteveH]

whats the conf. code?

14:32:20 [EliasT]

7333

14:32:21 [kendall]

7333

14:32:27 [DanC]

Regrets+ JosD

14:32:29 [Zakim]

+??P24

14:32:40 [SteveH]

Zakim, ??P24 is SteveH

14:32:40 [Zakim]

+SteveH; got it

14:33:12 [DaveB]

minutes approvde

14:33:35 [DaveB]

for 6 sep in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSep/att-0363/06-dawg-minutes.html

14:33:43 [DaveB]

tag conflicts 20sep

14:34:06 [Zakim]

+Rachel_Yager

14:34:19 [DaveB]

looking for a chair for 20sep

14:34:32 [DaveB]

current top canidated is Pat Hayes

14:34:44 [DaveB]

as there are a pile of semantics issues

14:35:08 [ericP]

DanC, on phone wiht hugo, plh soon

14:35:17 [DanC]

roger.

14:35:35 [DanC]

Zakim, pick a scribe

14:35:35 [Zakim]

Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose DanC

14:35:39 [DanC]

Zakim, pick a scribe

14:35:39 [Zakim]

Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Yoshio

14:35:44 [Yoshio]

no

14:35:49 [DanC]

Zakim, pick a scribe

14:35:49 [Zakim]

Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose DaveB

14:35:51 [ericP]

...(re lack of output serialization in LC WD)

14:35:51 [DanC]

Zakim, pick a scribe

14:35:51 [Zakim]

Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Yoshio

14:35:53 [DanC]

Zakim, pick a scribe

14:35:53 [Zakim]

Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose SteveH

14:35:59 [DaveB]

20 sep scribe: steveH

14:36:15 [kendall]

I'm willing to backup chair, if needed

14:36:16 [DaveB]

20 sep chair: PatH (possibly) or ...

14:36:28 [AndyS]

I did my action.

14:37:27 [DaveB]

continuing other actions

14:37:39 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

14:37:39 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "Toward Protocol Last Call" taken up [from DanC]

14:38:02 [DaveB]

publishing work happening today

14:38:10 [DaveB]

KC action done, ericp action continued

14:38:23 [DaveB]

... had to make up a namespace name for sparql query interface

14:38:58 [DaveB]

in http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/proto-wd/sparql-protocol-query.wsdl ?

14:39:09 [DanC]

<description targetNamespace="http://www.w3.org/2005/08/sparql-protocol-query/#">

14:39:09 [DaveB]

-

14:39:09 [DaveB]

<description targetNamespace="http://www.w3.org/2005/08/sparql-protocol-query/#">

14:39:25 [DaveB]

DanC: now been put in the document

14:39:42 [DaveB]

KC: was a namespace under proto-wd

14:39:53 [DanC]

(it doesn't occur in the .html ; just in the .wsdl)

14:40:05 [kendall]

http://www.w3.org/2005/09/sparql-protocol-types/#

14:40:11 [EliasT]

why "/#" vs "#"?

14:40:36 [DanC]

KC's action is done...

14:40:45 [DanC]

ACTION EricP: publish proto-wd v 1.68 + changes from as LCWD [continues]

14:40:51 [kendall]

heh

14:40:54 [EliasT]

heh

14:40:56 [kendall]

s/joke/policy/

14:40:58 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

14:40:58 [Zakim]

agendum 3. "SPARQL Protocol and WSDL" taken up [from DanC]

14:41:33 [DanC]

ACTION: LeeF to draft WSDL 1.1 for SPARQL thingy with AndyS and Elias ETA 9 sep

14:41:38 [kendall]

yay

14:41:38 [DanC]

-- continues

14:41:44 [DaveB]

LeeF: 1st draft of wsdl1.1 done, needs some polishing. doing some example java and python impl

14:41:52 [DaveB]

... if LC is this week, should be able to get code out next week

14:42:00 [DaveB]

can send out current code pointer

14:42:18 [kendall]

:>

14:42:22 [Zakim]

+EricP

14:42:23 [LeeF]

http://thefigtrees.net/DAWG/sparql-wsdl-1.1-note.html

14:42:47 [LeeF]

http://thefigtrees.net/DAWG/SPARQLClient.zip (Java)

14:42:56 [DanC]

ACTION: DanC to ask WSDL WG to review WSDL 1.1 and WSDL 2 SPARQL protocol stuff, once both are available

14:42:59 [DanC]

-- continues

14:43:10 [DanC]

ACTION: KC to work with WSDL WG on describing POST binding with application/x-form-encoded in WSDL 2

14:43:58 [DaveB]

KC - have sent 1 mail with 3 issues, 2 are conceptually similar

14:44:06 [DaveB]

one of those has turned into a LC issue with tracking number

14:44:20 [DaveB]

and wsdlwg has considered a fix and response

14:44:42 [DaveB]

... will send hugo mail to co-ordinate

14:45:15 [Zakim]

+Pat_Hayes

14:45:15 [DanC]

-- continues

14:45:30 [Zakim]

-EliasT

14:45:53 [patH]

patH has joined #dawg

14:46:03 [DaveB]

wsdl2.0 lc issues list: http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/5/lc-issues/

14:47:10 [Zakim]

+EliasT

14:47:26 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

14:47:26 [Zakim]

agendum 4. "comment: SPARQL Protocol: inconsistent parameter names" taken up [from DanC]

14:47:26 [DaveB]

DanC: you wanted reminding once ericp was back online (chairing?)

14:48:35 [DaveB]

PatH is happy to chair

14:48:54 [DaveB]

on sep20, ericP backup

14:49:40 [DanC]

2005-09-06T15:25:59Z from arjohn.kampman

14:49:54 [DanC]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2005Sep/0018

14:50:30 [DaveB]

action done

14:50:38 [DanC]

tracking wierdness. will fix.

14:50:46 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

14:50:46 [Zakim]

agendum 5. "issues#valueTesting : "language tag issues"" taken up [from DanC]

14:51:07 [DanC]

# ACTION: ericp to draft lang-match design, summarizing and citing RFC3066

14:51:12 [DanC]

#ACTION: ericp to draft lang-match design, summarizing and citing RFC3066

14:51:15 [DanC]

ACTION: ericp to draft lang-match design, summarizing and citing RFC3066

14:51:20 [DanC]

-- continues

14:51:40 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

14:51:40 [Zakim]

agendum 5 was just opened, DanC

14:51:45 [DanC]

Zakim, close item 5

14:51:45 [Zakim]

agendum 5, issues#valueTesting : "language tag issues", closed

14:51:46 [Zakim]

I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

14:51:48 [Zakim]

6. BASE IRI resolution comment [from DanC]

14:51:48 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

14:51:48 [Zakim]

agendum 6. "BASE IRI resolution comment" taken up [from DanC]

14:52:10 [DanC]

#

14:52:10 [DanC]

ACTION: ericP to send [OK?] message to Bjoern. re BASE IRI resolution comment

14:52:16 [DanC]

-- continues

14:52:27 [DanC]

Zakim, move to next agendum

14:52:27 [Zakim]

agendum 6 was just opened, DanC

14:52:32 [DanC]

Zakim, close this item

14:52:32 [Zakim]

agendum 6 closed

14:52:34 [Zakim]

I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

14:52:35 [DanC]

Zakim, move to next agendum

14:52:36 [Zakim]

7. issues#valueTesting: handling type "error"s [from DanC]

14:52:38 [Zakim]

agendum 7. "issues#valueTesting: handling type "error"s" taken up [from DanC]

14:53:33 [DaveB]

my mail http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSep/0410.html

14:53:51 [ericP]

A B | NOT A A && B A || B

14:53:51 [ericP]

-------------------------------------

14:53:51 [ericP]

E E | E E E

14:53:51 [ericP]

E T | E E T

14:53:51 [ericP]

E F | E F E

14:53:53 [ericP]

T E | F E T

14:53:55 [ericP]

T T | F T T

14:53:58 [ericP]

T F | F F T

14:54:00 [ericP]

F E | T F E

14:54:03 [ericP]

F T | T F T

14:54:06 [ericP]

F F | T F F

14:54:35 [kendall]

"E" is unknown here?

14:54:43 [kendall]

or error?

14:54:44 [LeeF]

E is Error

14:54:45 [DanC]

"E" is like unkown, but it's type error

14:54:50 [kendall]

ACK

14:57:52 [DaveB]

the temp example (original comment) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2005Aug/0030.html

14:58:08 [AndyS]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ternary_logic

14:58:43 [DanC]

DaveB: also matches SQL

14:58:57 [DaveB]

PatH - there are lots of ternary logics...

14:59:49 [DaveB]

we are looking at and going to approve the NOT A, and A&& B

15:00:19 [DanC]

SWH: "error or true" is not true in SQL

15:00:21 [SteveH]

mysql> SELECT NULL | 1;

15:00:21 [SteveH]

+----------+

15:00:21 [SteveH]

| NULL | 1 |

15:00:21 [SteveH]

+----------+

15:00:21 [SteveH]

| NULL |

15:00:22 [SteveH]

+----------+

15:00:40 [DaveB]

jeen's doc says T | E -> T for SQL

15:00:55 [DanC]

SWH: ah... with || , it does match

15:01:02 [DaveB]

we mean logical OR (||)

15:01:25 [SteveH]

sorry, typo

15:01:55 [DanC]

ACTION DaveB: add to test suite the temperature case from timbl's comment on truth tables

15:02:09 [DaveB]

from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2005Aug/0030.html

15:02:50 [DaveB]

PatH - there are other ways to do this, this form is a weak way

15:03:01 [DaveB]

DanC - was this part borrowed from XQuery? ericp: No

15:03:44 [DanC]

PROPOSED: to change the value testing truth table as per 2005JulSep/0410.html

15:04:14 [DanC]

PROPOSED: to change the value testing truth table as per table 1 of 2005JulSep/0410.html

15:04:40 [DanC]

so RESOLVED

15:04:49 [DanC]

ACTION EricP: change the value testing truth table as per table 1 of 2005JulSep/0410.html

15:05:44 [kendall]

I think this would all be a lot easier for us if Tim would just do all the work directly! :>

15:05:57 [DanC]

ACTION EricP: respond to commentor http://www.w3.org/mid/B27E3100-A366-496F-AC9A-A0E5257C3F80@w3.org

15:06:34 [ericP]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSep/0360 ericP's proposal that the above truth table meets TimBl's requirements

15:07:45 [DanC]

DanC: note gk's comments too

15:07:50 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

15:07:50 [Zakim]

agendum 8. "issues#rdfSemantics" taken up [from DanC]

15:08:44 [DaveB]

issue http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/issues#rdfSemantics

15:09:08 [ericP]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2005Sep/0002.html gk's comments

15:09:18 [kendall]

what's a lean graph?

15:09:30 [DaveB]

kendall: it's defned the rdf semantics

15:09:40 [kendall]

thx

15:10:15 [LeeF]

Kendall - defined here, I think:

15:10:15 [LeeF]

http://www.w3.org/TR/2002/WD-rdf-mt-20020429/#Non-entailment

15:10:17 [DaveB]

discussion of comments in agenda

15:10:22 [DanC]

Zakim, who's on the call?

15:10:22 [Zakim]

On the phone I see LeeF, AndyS, DaveB, Yoshio, Kendall_Clark, DanC, SteveH, Rachel_Yager, EricP, Pat_Hayes, EliasT

15:13:24 [DaveB]

ACTION AndyS: write email with 2 use cases on rdf-semantics issues for references

15:14:03 [DaveB]

options include

15:14:09 [DaveB]

deciding current semantics are ok

15:14:29 [DaveB]

say what we have now is ok and postpone looking at this till later

15:14:37 [DaveB]

other options involve us getting smarter

15:15:07 [DaveB]

or, reduce the scope of the language down to one graph some of the semantics work gets easier

15:15:28 [DaveB]

--

15:16:04 [Zakim]

-Rachel_Yager

15:16:05 [DaveB]

SH: would probably get objections from removing multiple graphs. People have seen it and are expecting it.

15:16:26 [DaveB]

KC: would have to explain tradeoffs of compat with owl / multi-graphs & aggregations

15:16:56 [DaveB]

AndyS: EnricoF had distinguished core sparql (1 graph) and full sparql

15:18:00 [DaveB]

DanC: there is some momentum for a separate semantics doc

15:18:15 [DaveB]

... but whose is it, a paper by Enrico, a WG note, a WG doc?

15:18:44 [DaveB]

for such things as soundness and completeness for sparql

15:18:45 [AndyS]

Enrico made other changes that I found to me a significant changes

15:19:13 [AndyS]

Enrico made other changes that I found to be a significant changes

15:19:44 [DaveB]

and a new doc would have a Schedule Impact

15:20:58 [EliasT]

can we quote DanC on the logs, please?

15:21:26 [DaveB]

"Semanticists should be obstetricians, not coroners of programming languages. -- John Reynolds" -- quotes DanC

15:21:36 [DaveB]

( found in http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/infoset/xmod67.html )

15:23:25 [DaveB]

DaveB has not swapped this semantics stuff in. and am scared

15:24:37 [DaveB]

Yoshio: owl disjunction should be one of the service aspects. no semantic obligation in the language. don't want to delay things more.

15:25:18 [AndyS]

+1 to minimal like DISTINCT

15:25:30 [kendall]

I think the OWL heads would be happy with that, if it worked out.

15:25:36 [AndyS]

A feature of the thing (service) being asked.

15:25:43 [DaveB]

DanC: would like to treat this like distinct

15:26:07 [DanC]

(yes, I think that's what yoshio said, AndyS. A feature of the thing (service) being asked. )

15:26:21 [Yoshio]

exactly

15:26:23 [AndyS]

Ack

15:26:26 [kendall]

oh, I was talking about Republicans. :>

15:26:33 [DanC]

Zakim, who's on the phone?

15:26:33 [Zakim]

On the phone I see LeeF, AndyS, DaveB, Yoshio, Kendall_Clark, DanC, SteveH, EricP, Pat_Hayes, EliasT

15:26:35 [kendall]

(sorry)

15:27:11 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

15:27:11 [Zakim]

agendum 9. "issues#owlDisjunction" taken up [from DanC]

15:27:17 [DaveB]

issue http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/issues#owlDisjunction

15:28:29 [DaveB]

ref http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0069

15:28:44 [DaveB]

^- the "worker example" / "little house example"

15:29:51 [DaveB]

DanC - thinks that IH would be satisfied if sparql was defined in terms of rdf-simple entailment

15:30:00 [DaveB]

IH=Ian Horrocks

15:30:29 [kendall]

sorry, didn't hear what he said

15:31:30 [DaveB]

PatH - if we for e.g. based on owl-entailment we'd have to explain how the semantics such as disjunction translates into owl:oneOf (sp?) ...

15:31:40 [DaveB]

(not scribed all of that)

15:33:10 [DanC]

hope to make progress on these 2 issues 20 Sep, 4 Oct

15:33:16 [patH]

I sugest we shouold not get invoolved with trying to make disjunction in a query fully relate to OWL disjunction. That buys us into a larger set of problkems than our charter allows. We should focus on RDf not OWL.

15:33:51 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

15:33:51 [Zakim]

agendum 10. "SPARQL QL grammar" taken up [from DanC]

15:35:11 [DaveB]

good news:">news: I've mostly updated to grammar in current editor's draft and got no shift/reduce conflicts. bad news: it's not passing previously working tests (i.e. I'm still fixing it)

15:35:18 [DanC]

1.489

15:35:31 [DanC]

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#grammar

15:35:52 [DanC]

"The SPARQL grammar is LL(1) when the rules with uppercased names are used as terminals."

15:37:04 [patH]

"if you were the only/tool in the world..."

15:37:31 [ericP]

AndyS, Q_IRI_REF, roger -- tx

15:37:42 [DaveB]

DanC: what about var names?

15:37:51 [DaveB]

afs: can start with digits and underscores (rule 84)

15:38:00 [DanC]

VARNAME prod 84

15:38:29 [kendall]

zakim, mute me

15:38:29 [Zakim]

Kendall_Clark should now be muted

15:38:37 [DaveB]

AndyS: NCCHAR1 adds '_' from NCCHAR1p (used for namespace prefixes)

15:39:00 [kendall]

fire engines and ambulances

15:41:46 [DaveB]

dscusion of lang changes to grammar - possible new builtin, or qnamed-function

15:41:48 [DanC]

REQUEST FOR TEST CASE: SELECT ?x WHERE {.}

15:42:00 [DaveB]

... and possibly import the xquery fn (with URI) for the language matching

15:42:51 [DanC]

ACTION SteveH: review grammar tests

15:43:00 [DanC]

ACTION DaveB: review grammar tests

15:43:24 [DaveB]

that's the SyntaxDev dir and subdirs

15:44:00 [DaveB]

AndyS: I've got TestBadSyntax working too, should that not be in the test namespace/manifest stuff?

15:44:15 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

15:44:15 [Zakim]

agendum 11. "issues#badIRIRef" taken up [from DanC]

15:44:32 [DanC]

test case: SELECT ?x WHERE { <foo###bar> dc:title ?x }

15:44:33 [DaveB]

(that was my message to Andy, not what he said)

15:44:46 [AndyS]

Needs Steve to agree and update the doc and scripts

15:45:15 [DanC]

"Any IRI references in a SPARQL query string must be valid according to RFC 3987 [RFC3987] and RFC 3986 [RFC3986]."

15:45:22 [SteveH]

AndyS, can you point me to that tommorow? I have to run after the telecon

15:45:46 [DanC]

(that stuff about BASE is redundant w.r.t. text ericp is wrangling)

15:45:48 [DaveB]

-- "IRI References" unnumbered section in http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#grammar

15:47:42 [AndyS]

Will add something like "any qname, and <> must be a valid IRI reference" by naming the rules that are involved

15:48:30 [DaveB]

IIRC RDF core decided not to check uri syntax?

15:49:43 [DaveB]

DanC: are there any cases where a syntactically valid query is invalid?

15:50:28 [patH]

possible (?) use case might be using the query protocol to locae illegal URIs in an RDF document. Question is, why does it fall to SPARQL to be the URI censor?

15:50:38 [patH]

locae/locate

15:51:05 [DaveB]

DanC asked if a query with an unbound prefix is a valid sparql query.

15:53:06 [kendall]

zakim, unmute me

15:53:06 [Zakim]

Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted

15:54:23 [kendall]

zakim, mute me

15:54:23 [Zakim]

Kendall_Clark should now be muted

15:56:08 [Yoshio]

q+ to ask if it implies every SPARQL server MUST check the validity or it will be unconformant? I think we could separate conformance of a query and of a server

15:56:15 [AndyS]

Difficult to find a good IRI library (JJC is looking at this for us at the moment)

15:57:09 [AndyS]

ARQ catches ### today - thinking of making it switchable

15:57:17 [DanC]

PROPOSED: that SELECT ?x WHERE { <foo###bar> dc:title ?x } is not a SPARQL query string; that Q_IRI_REF's must conform to generic IRI syntax

15:57:24 [kendall]

zakim, unmute me

15:57:24 [Zakim]

Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted

15:57:30 [DanC]

ack Yoshio

15:57:30 [Zakim]

Yoshio, you wanted to ask if it implies every SPARQL server MUST check the validity or it will be unconformant? I think we could separate conformance of a query and of a server

15:57:36 [DanC]

Zakim, who's on the phone?

15:57:36 [Zakim]

On the phone I see LeeF, AndyS, DaveB, Yoshio, Kendall_Clark, DanC, SteveH, EricP, Pat_Hayes, EliasT

15:57:40 [kendall]

zakim, mute me

15:57:40 [Zakim]

Kendall_Clark should now be muted

15:58:04 [kendall]

FWIW, I support the proposal that Q_IRI_REFs must conform to generic IRI syntax.

15:59:41 [DanC]

y a y y y a n n n a

16:00:24 [DanC]

PROPOSED: that SELECT ?x WHERE { <foo###bar> dc:title ?x } is not a SPARQL query string; that Q_IRI_REF's must conform to generic IRI syntax

16:01:01 [DanC]

hayes, harris, andy, ericp abstain

16:01:11 [kendall]

FYI: We're out of time. :>

16:01:40 [DanC]

so RESOLVED. hayes, harris, andy, ericp abstain

16:01:52 [Zakim]

-DaveB

16:01:53 [DanC]

ADJOURN.

16:02:02 [DanC]

dave, do you have what you need to produce the record?

16:02:03 [Zakim]

-SteveH

16:02:08 [DanC]

RRSAgent, make logs world-access

16:02:15 [DaveB]

yes I think so

16:02:23 [kendall]

zakim, unmute me

16:02:23 [Zakim]

Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted

16:02:35 [EliasT]

yay!

16:02:51 [EliasT]

down with the protocols!

16:03:20 [EliasT]

(except for SPARQL Protocol, of course)

16:03:43 [ericP]

EliasT, please preface protocol comments with PROTOCOL: for tracking purposes

16:04:09 [Yoshio]

I'm wondering if the reasons for abstain(ation?) has things to do with the restriction that every SPARQL server should check the validity, (but seems too late... :(

16:04:16 [EliasT]

noted. thanks. :-)

16:04:29 [Zakim]

-Kendall_Clark

16:04:45 [SteveH]

Yoshio, yes, thats wy i abstained

16:04:55 [AndyS]

me too

16:05:02 [patH]

yoshio, I think the idea is that who checks is not specified, but legasl;ity is.

16:05:24 [Zakim]

-EliasT

16:05:25 [Zakim]

-DanC

16:05:27 [Zakim]

-Pat_Hayes

16:05:28 [Zakim]

-LeeF

16:05:28 [Zakim]

-EricP

16:05:30 [Zakim]

-AndyS

16:05:35 [Zakim]

-Yoshio

16:05:36 [Zakim]

SW_DAWG()10:30AM has ended

16:05:37 [Zakim]

Attendees were EliasT, AndyS, LeeF, Yoshio, DaveB, Kendall_Clark, DanC, SteveH, Rachel_Yager, EricP, Pat_Hayes

16:06:17 [Yoshio]

I (also) don't like the idea that every SPARQL server MUST check the validity.

16:07:13 [Yoshio]

We may separate the validity of query from its detection

16:07:36 [DaveB]

validity of a query I can live with

16:07:54 [DaveB]

checking the syntax of every URI in the data is more of a burden

16:09:03 [LeeF]

Is there a non-cumbersome way to say that queries with bad URIs are invalid but need not be checked while still expecting a query processor to check that "jifwjiew" is not a valid SPARQL query?

16:10:51 [EliasT]

EliasT has left #dawg

16:10:56 [DaveB]

not really unless it's something like match the sparql grammar without doing the checks given indirectly in references such as URIs

16:11:47 [Yoshio]

For me, just expecting is OK in the sense that a server SHOULD check, but I'm not happy with "MUST"

16:11:54 [SteveH]

well, sparql allready defines what a valid query looks like at the syntax level, and there was/is some extra text that tells you you have to look inside IRIs

16:15:52 [Yoshio]

Yoshio has left #dawg

18:02:48 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #dawg