14:32:37 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dawg
14:32:37 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/09/06-dawg-irc
14:32:43 <afs> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:32:43 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.212.651.aaaa, ??P16, Kendall_Clark
14:33:01 <Zakim> +[IBMCambridge]
14:33:03 <afs> zakim, ??P16 is HPLB
14:33:03 <Zakim> +HPLB; got it
14:33:05 <DanC> agenda + Convene, take roll, review records and agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSep/0346.html
14:33:12 <EliasT> Zakim, IBMCambridge is EliasT
14:33:12 <Zakim> +EliasT; got it
14:33:13 <DanC> agenda + comment: Query forms should be resources, not operations
14:33:21 <DanC> agenda + comment: SPARQL Protocol: inconsistent parameter names
14:33:27 <afs> zakim, HPLB holds AndyS, DaveB
14:33:27 <Zakim> +AndyS, DaveB; got it
14:33:29 <DanC> agenda + Toward Protocol Last Call
14:33:37 <DanC> agenda + BASE IRI resolution comment
14:33:39 <Zakim> +[IBMCambridge]
14:33:41 <LeeF> Zakim, IBMCambridge is LeeF
14:33:41 <Zakim> +LeeF; got it
14:33:45 <DanC> agenda + issues#valueTesting : "language tag issues"
14:33:52 <DanC> agenda + issues#valueTesting: handling type "error"s
14:33:58 <DanC> agenda + issues#sort, comment ORDER with IRIs
14:34:05 <DanC> agenda + Recent SPARQL QL comments
14:34:15 <DanC> agenda + Toward SPARQL CR
14:34:21 <DanC> agenda + Protocol Testing
14:34:21 <ericP> zakim, please dial ericP-617
14:34:22 <Zakim> ok, ericP; the call is being made
14:34:22 <Zakim> +EricP
14:34:26 <DanC> agenda + WSDL last call
14:34:58 <Zakim> +DanC
14:35:05 <Zakim> +??P20
14:35:42 <JosD> JosD has joined #dawg
14:35:53 <kendall> kendall has joined #dawg
14:36:03 <DanC> Zakim, aaa is RachelYager
14:36:03 <Zakim> sorry, DanC, I do not recognize a party named 'aaa'
14:36:07 <DanC> Zakim, aaaa is RachelYager
14:36:07 <Zakim> +RachelYager; got it
14:36:12 <DanC> Zakim, who's on the phone?
14:36:12 <Zakim> On the phone I see RachelYager, HPLB, Kendall_Clark, EliasT, LeeF, EricP, DanC, ??P20
14:36:14 <Zakim> HPLB has AndyS, DaveB
14:36:15 <DanC> Zakim, take up item 1
14:36:15 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Convene, take roll, review records and agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSep/0346.html" taken up [from DanC]
14:36:38 <DanC> Zakim, ??P20 is JeenB
14:36:38 <Zakim> +JeenB; got it
14:36:41 <Zakim> +Jos_De_Roo
14:37:48 <DanC> Regrets: SteveH
14:37:56 <kendall> Regrets: SteveHarris, EnricoFranconi, JanneS
14:38:06 <ericP> RRSAgent, pointer?
14:38:06 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2005/09/06-dawg-irc#T14-38-06
14:38:16 <ericP> Meeting: RDF Data Access
14:38:27 <kendall> Rachel Yager, Financial Services Technology Consortium
14:38:31 <kendall> new group member?
14:38:33 <ericP> Time: 2005-09-06T14:30Z
14:38:53 <DanC> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSep/att-0320/Aug30.html minutes 30 Aug
14:39:06 <DanC> RESOLVED to approve
14:39:10 <kendall> Minutes from last week's meeting approved
14:39:54 <ericP> Regrets for next week: JosD
14:40:14 <DanC> Zakim, next item
14:40:14 <Zakim> agendum 2. "comment: Query forms should be resources, not operations" taken up [from DanC]
14:42:10 <DanC> ACTION DanC: find pointers to consideration of splitting CONSTRUCT / SELECT into separate interfaces
14:42:25 <kendall> sorry about garbage truck noise
14:43:19 <DanC> note WG is not persuaded by MarkB's arguments to reconsider protocol design
14:43:41 <DanC> Zakim, next agendum
14:43:41 <Zakim> agendum 3. "comment: SPARQL Protocol: inconsistent parameter names" taken up [from DanC]
14:44:14 <DanC> ACTION KC: respond to  inconsistent parameter names commentor
14:44:17 <DanC> Zakim, next item
14:44:17 <Zakim> agendum 3 was just opened, DanC
14:44:24 <DanC> Zakim, close item 3
14:44:24 <Zakim> agendum 3, comment: SPARQL Protocol: inconsistent parameter names, closed
14:44:26 <Zakim> I see 9 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:44:27 <Zakim> 4. Toward Protocol Last Call [from DanC]
14:44:28 <DanC> Zakim, next item
14:44:28 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Toward Protocol Last Call" taken up [from DanC]
14:44:48 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/proto-wd/ 1.67
14:45:26 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/proto-wd/#query-bindings-http
14:45:28 <LeeF> I think.
14:47:17 <DanC> DONE: ACTION: KendallC to add editorial note to protocol spec showing that our WSDL is not kosher and it depends on their final decision.
14:48:16 <DanC> DONE: ACTION: KendallC, to relax the query-result type to allow "equivalent serialization"
14:48:27 <DanC> in 2.1.3 query Out Message
14:49:09 <DanC> c. CONSTRUCT with simple RDF dataset and HTTP content negotation
14:49:25 <DanC> DONE: ACTION: KC to make conneg explicit in c. CONSTRUCT with simple RDF dataset and take accept: out elsewhere
14:49:56 <DanC> KC: example numbering may change, and the example content will be generated by Lee's code, but otherwise, the examples are done
14:50:22 <DanC> "finish description of SOAP bindings"
14:50:26 <DaveB> there's about 4 '@@' labels in proto-wd as of now
14:52:15 <kendall> I believe all of the @@ markers are for section numbers.
14:52:20 <DanC> PROPOSED: to publish http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/proto-wd/ as Last Call WD, v 1.67 plus example section numbers, plus "finish description of SOAP bindings" reviewed by @@
14:52:29 <kendall> 1.68 has the proper compliance language, FWIW.
14:52:32 <DanC> PROPOSED: to publish http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/proto-wd/ as Last Call WD, v 1.67 plus example section numbers, plus fixing @@ section refs, plus "finish description of SOAP bindings" reviewed by @@
14:52:43 <DanC> PROPOSED: to publish http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/proto-wd/ as Last Call WD, v 1.68 plus example section numbers, plus fixing @@ section refs, plus "finish description of SOAP bindings" reviewed by @@
14:53:02 <kendall>  A compliant SPARQL Protocol service must support the SparqlQuery interface; if a SPARQL Protocol service supports either HTTP or SOAP bindings, it must support the bindings as described in sparql-protocol-query.wsdl. A SPARQL Protocol service may support other interfaces.
14:55:56 <DaveB> I can see a sparql syntax bug in one of the queries right now
14:56:14 <kendall> a guessing game, yay!
14:56:18 <DaveB> i
14:56:25 <DanC> "i. SELECT with malformed query fault"
14:57:55 <DaveB> and k. elides the body of the query with '...'
14:57:55 <DanC> PROPOSED: to publish http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/proto-wd/ as Last Call WD, v 1.68 plus example section numbers, plus fixing @@ section refs, plus "finish description of SOAP bindings" reviewed by @@, plus change "i. This SPARQL query" to "i. This erroneous SPARQL query..."
14:58:50 <kendall> I added "syntactically invalid"
14:59:54 <afs> The current protocol draft + agreed mods as per Dan's proposal + clearer bad syntax is good to me.
15:01:21 <DanC> so we'll regen the examples after last call.
15:02:59 <DanC> PROPOSED: to publish http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/proto-wd/ as Last Call WD, v 1.68 plus example section numbers, plus fixing @@ section refs, plus "finish description of SOAP bindings", plus change "i. This SPARQL query" to "i. This erroneous SPARQL query..."
15:03:36 <kendall> "syntactically invalid" == "erroneous"?
15:03:44 <DanC> sure.
15:03:46 <kendall> cool
15:03:52 <DanC> so RESOLVED.
15:04:10 <kendall> heh, join the club ;>
15:04:21 <DanC> ACTION EricP: publish proto-wd as above
15:04:26 <DanC> critical path: EP, KC
15:05:27 <DanC> (yes, those actions under item 12 are continued)
15:05:40 <kendall> heh
15:05:47 <kendall> or the RDF mapping
15:06:31 <DanC> Zakim, next item
15:06:31 <Zakim> agendum 5. "BASE IRI resolution comment" taken up [from DanC]
15:06:32 <kendall> whew
15:07:08 <kendall> (hmm, so did we decide to tell mark baker that we're going forward, or will Last Call signal that sufficiently?)
15:07:31 <DanC> ACTION: ericP to send [OK?] message to Bjoern. re BASE IRI resolution comment
15:07:38 <DanC> (DanC will explain more after the meeting)
15:07:55 <DanC> Zakim, next item
15:07:55 <Zakim> agendum 6. "issues#valueTesting : "language tag issues"" taken up [from DanC]
15:09:09 <DanC> lang(?x) = "en"  # or not
15:09:25 <DanC> lang-match("en-us", "en") # true
15:09:55 <DanC> lang-match(?, "en") # true if ?x is bound to "en-us"
15:10:55 <DaveB> thinking: so for some rdf literal ?x, lang-match(lang(?x), "en")  is true if for example, ?x is bound to "EN-US"
15:12:25 <ericP> propose:
15:12:26 <ericP>   lang-match(lang(?x), "en") matches if ?x@en or ?x@en-us
15:12:33 <ericP>   lang-match(lang(?x), "en-us") matches if ?x@en or ?x@en-us
15:12:34 <ericP> .
15:12:48 <afs> Minor: langMatch (no "-") would be more inline with the grammar so far.  Could have a keyword with "-" no probs there.
15:12:57 <DanC> . ACTION ericp: draft lang-match design, summarizing and citing RFC3066
15:13:09 <DanC> ACTION ericp: draft lang-match design, summarizing and citing RFC3066
15:13:28 <DanC> Zakim, next item
15:13:28 <Zakim> agendum 7. "issues#valueTesting: handling type "error"s" taken up [from DanC]
15:13:33 <kendall> err... sorry for crap scribe job... busy making text changes & answering Arjohn's email
15:13:46 <ericP> DanC: bonus points for test cases
15:16:30 <DanC> Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:16:30 <Zakim> On the phone I see RachelYager, HPLB, Kendall_Clark, EliasT, LeeF, EricP, DanC, JeenB, Jos_De_Roo
15:16:32 <Zakim> HPLB has AndyS, DaveB
15:17:39 <kendall> it's a dry, dry well on this subject! :>
15:19:10 <DanC> yes, it would help to have "known datatypes" in the test manifest (as in WebOnt/OWL)
15:19:36 <afs> Round table?
15:20:34 <DanC> EricP pref 0
15:20:36 <DanC> DanC pref 1
15:20:39 <DanC> Jos pref 1
15:21:09 <DanC> Andy pref 0... er... 0 or 1 depending on server knowledge
15:22:16 <kendall> Dave pref 0
15:22:27 <afs> "=" can only return true if it positively knows the fact to be true (and it can be odd that !(XXI=21) \=> XXI!=21)
15:22:52 <DaveB> I say, if we say the list of datatypes supported is (... a  set ..) and that set is the set of datatypes in the query spec, the answer must be 0
15:24:21 <afs> Can URIs denote numbers?
15:25:55 <ericP> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2005Aug/0051.html experiments with flags in result sets
15:27:29 <ericP> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSep/0360 modifying truth table for OR
15:27:59 <DanC> (maybe I should have reopened issues#disjunction instead of or in addition to #valueTesting)
15:29:05 <DanC> EricP: currently, (typeerror || X) give X. commentor asks for (typerror || true) gives true, (typerror || false) gives typeerror [did I get that right, ericp?]
15:29:33 <afs> issue #disjunction is about graph pattern disjunction but here we are in F&O space. I don't know if these can be equated.
15:29:49 <DanC> ok, so #disjunction is separate.
15:30:56 <afs> That's as I understand it.  It would be nice if filters and graph patterns were more strongly related.
15:31:24 <afs> But it may be that it just isn't possible to use F&O and equate to graph patterns in all cases
15:33:18 <DanC> (chair is at that point of choosing between putting a question or actioning somebody to make the WG smarter)
15:33:30 <ericP> extendedType-eq-pass and extendedType-ne-fail
15:34:29 <DaveB> ?? !("a" 1) || true
15:34:31 <DanC> . ACTION EricP: draft text and propose tests for {  (typerror || false) gives typeerror } 
15:34:36 <DaveB> ?? !("a" + 1) || true
15:35:13 <ericP> !(typeError || FALSE)
15:35:18 <afs> !(||) is related to &&   Do these the truth tables work out for && as well?
15:35:37 <ericP> !("a" + 1 || FALSE)
15:35:52 <ericP> by LC, that returns a TRUE
15:36:03 <ericP> by TimBL, it returns no solution
15:36:32 <ericP> (i.e., the FILTER encounter a typeError and eliminates that solution)
15:36:44 <ericP> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSep/0360 modifying truth table for OR
15:37:56 <DanC> ACTION EricP: get SteveH's response to 0360 modifying truth table for OR
15:38:07 <afs> I *think* that's OK - would like to test before vote
15:38:16 <ericP> ditto
15:40:56 <DanC> Zakim, next item
15:40:56 <Zakim> agendum 8. "issues#sort, comment ORDER with IRIs" taken up [from DanC]
15:41:50 <DanC> AFS: ORDER BY devolves to < ... which isn't defined for IRIs, strings...
15:43:15 <DaveB> (fn:compare has an optional collation argument)
15:43:54 <DaveB> http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-functions/#func-compare
15:45:23 <DanC> agenda +  <query><query>SELECT
15:45:30 <kendall> cool
15:46:37 <DanC> PROPOSED: to extend < to apply to strings and IRIs, and to use this for sorting IRIs.
15:47:06 <DanC> PROPOSED: to extend < to apply to strings and IRIs based on XPath/XQuery F&O #func-compare, and to use this for sorting IRIs.
15:50:25 <afs> Q for understanding: Why "<" on IRIs?  Use case?
15:50:53 <DanC> PROPOSED: to extend < to apply to strings based on XPath/XQuery F&O #func-compare, and to use this for sorting IRIs.
15:51:22 <DanC> PROPOSED: to extend < and other relational ops to apply to strings based on XPath/XQuery F&O #func-compare, and to use this for sorting IRIs.
15:52:11 <DaveB> ref http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath20/#static_context
15:53:32 <DaveB> in http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-functions/#collations there is the reference to the defaults for collation and the unicode code point collation
15:53:53 <DanC> PROPOSED: to extend < and other relational ops to apply to strings based on XPath/XQuery F&O #func-compare, and to use this for sorting IRIs.
15:54:17 <DanC> so RESOLVED.
15:54:25 <DanC> ACTION DanC: ask I18N WG for review
15:54:54 <DanC> ACTION EricP: extend < and relational ops, get review by Andy
15:56:21 <DanC> ACTION DaveB: find query with FILTER on URIs
15:56:38 <DanC> action -9
15:57:03 <DanC> Zakim, close this item
15:57:03 <Zakim> agendum 8 closed
15:57:04 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:57:05 <Zakim> 9. Recent SPARQL QL comments [from DanC]
15:57:14 <DanC> Zakim, take up item 13
15:57:14 <Zakim> agendum 13. "<query><query>SELECT" taken up [from DanC]
15:57:18 <kendall> I changed <query><sparql-query>SELECT to <query><query>SELECT, and I should have changed it to <query-request><query>SELECT
15:57:47 <afs> That looks fine.
15:58:12 <DanC> PROPOSED: to change the outer <query> element name to <query-request>
15:59:06 <DanC> so RESOLVED. EricP abstaining
15:59:11 <DanC> Zakim, close this item
15:59:11 <Zakim> agendum 13 closed
15:59:12 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:59:13 <Zakim> 9. Recent SPARQL QL comments [from DanC]
15:59:33 <kendall> it's huge and a bit scary, IMO
15:59:40 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/lc-status-report.html
16:03:36 <DanC> Zakim, next agendum
16:03:36 <Zakim> agendum 9. "Recent SPARQL QL comments" taken up [from DanC]
16:03:42 <DanC> Zakim, close item 9
16:03:42 <Zakim> agendum 9, Recent SPARQL QL comments, closed
16:03:43 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:03:44 <Zakim> 10. Toward SPARQL CR [from DanC]
16:03:50 <DanC> Zakim, close item 10
16:03:50 <Zakim> agendum 10, Toward SPARQL CR, closed
16:03:51 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:03:52 <Zakim> 11. Protocol Testing [from DanC]
16:03:59 <DanC> Zakim, close item 11
16:03:59 <Zakim> agendum 11, Protocol Testing, closed
16:04:00 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
16:04:01 <Zakim> 12. WSDL last call [from DanC]
16:04:06 <DanC> Zakim, close item 12
16:04:06 <Zakim> agendum 12, WSDL last call, closed
16:04:07 <Zakim> I see nothing remaining on the agenda
16:04:09 <DanC> ADJOURN.
16:04:25 <DanC> RRSAgent, make logs world-access
16:04:41 <DanC> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:04:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/09/06-dawg-minutes.html DanC
16:09:12 <kendall> I don't know that that's true, but I don't know it's false.
16:10:48 <kendall> afs: I didn't follow yr last point about execution speed and UI...?
16:16:52 <Zakim> -LeeF
16:17:04 <EliasT> EliasT has joined #dawg
16:23:11 <Zakim> -DanC
16:23:19 <Zakim> -Jos_De_Roo
16:23:23 <Zakim> -Kendall_Clark
16:23:25 <Zakim> -RachelYager
16:23:33 <Zakim> -EliasT
16:23:45 <Zakim> -EricP
16:23:55 <Zakim> -HPLB
16:24:02 <Zakim> -JeenB
16:24:03 <Zakim> SW_DAWG()10:30AM has ended
16:24:04 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.212.651.aaaa, Kendall_Clark, EliasT, AndyS, DaveB, LeeF, EricP, DanC, RachelYager, JeenB, Jos_De_Roo
16:24:23 <EliasT> DanC can we talk about examples?
16:24:31 <DanC> umm... ok
16:24:38 <EliasT> voice?
16:24:47 <DanC> Zakim, room for 4?
16:24:48 <Zakim> ok, DanC; conference Team_(dawg)16:24Z scheduled with code 83261 (TEAM1) for 60 minutes until 1724Z
16:24:53 <EliasT> 617 693 0120
16:24:55 <Zakim> Team_(dawg)16:24Z has now started
16:24:55 <Zakim> +DanC
16:25:11 <kendall> use  the dawg conf code?
16:25:28 <DanC> the dawg code won't work, but 83261 (TEAM1) will
16:25:32 <kendall> ok
16:25:58 <Zakim> +[IBMCambridge]
16:26:00 <Zakim> -[IBMCambridge]
16:26:01 <Zakim> +[IBMCambridge]
16:26:06 <EliasT> Zakim, IBMCambridge is EliasT
16:26:06 <Zakim> +EliasT; got it
16:26:49 <Zakim> +Kendall_Clark
16:27:38 <DanC> connolly@dirk:~/w3ccvs/WWW/2001/sw/DataAccess$ cvs update -d proto-tests
16:28:21 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/proto-tests/README.html
16:28:50 <EliasT> <!-- ptest describe-simple query -->
16:28:53 <EliasT> <!-- ptest -->
16:29:16 <DanC> er... how about <div class="ptest" id="describe-simple">
16:29:25 <EliasT> GET /sparql/?query=EncodedQuery HTTP/1.1
16:29:26 <EliasT> Host: my.example
16:29:26 <EliasT> User-agent: my-sparql-client/0.1
16:32:29 <DanC> <pre class="query">
16:33:09 <EliasT> ./examples.py --location http://www.w3c.org
16:34:01 <EliasT> <div class="ptest" id="describe-simple"></div>
16:34:25 <EliasT> <pre><!-- ptest describe-simple query -->
16:34:33 <EliasT> <!-- ptest --></pre>
16:39:38 <kendall> status code and Content-Type are the only HTTP headers in the response that matter
16:47:14 <Zakim> -EliasT
16:47:16 <Zakim> -Kendall_Clark
16:47:16 <Zakim> -DanC
16:47:16 <Zakim> Team_(dawg)16:24Z has ended
16:47:17 <Zakim> Attendees were DanC, EliasT, Kendall_Clark
17:01:54 <EliasT> EliasT has left #dawg
18:33:38 <Zakim> Zakim has left #dawg
19:12:54 <danbri> danbri has joined #dawg
19:24:54 <DanC> darn; neglected to go over Base stuff with ericp
19:36:53 <LeeF> LeeF has left #dawg
20:55:49 <ericP> DanC, want to talk about now?
20:56:01 <DanC> ah. hi. sure.
20:56:27 <DanC> so here's the comment http://www.w3.org/mid/431e392a.225659671@smtp.bjoern.hoehrmann.de
20:57:30 <DanC> this text looks responsive... [[
20:57:31 <DanC> Relative IRIs are combined with base IRIs as per Uniform Resource Identifier (URI): Generic Syntax [RFC3986] using only the basic algorithm in Section 5.2 . Neither Syntax-Based Normalization nor Scheme-Based Normalization (described in sections 6.2.2 and 6.2.3 of RFC3986) is performed.
20:57:31 <DanC> ]]
20:57:41 <DanC> but I wonder about [[ The resolution of relative IRIs in SPARQL queries with no BASE is not defined. ]]
20:58:03 <DanC> what we want to say is that the base URI in case of no BASE directive is undefined.
20:58:37 <ericP> yeah, i thought i composed that
20:58:55 <ericP> maybe it went to the WG for approval and sank into the swamp
21:00:07 <DanC> s/The resolution of relative IRIs in SPARQL queries with no BASE is not defined.//
21:00:20 <DanC> just strike that. The text above suffices: "The base IRI for the resolution of relative IRIs may be explicitly declared with the BASE keyword."
21:00:42 <DanC> I'm pretty sure we have all the WG approval we need for this one.
21:00:49 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/mid/20050829092245.GA17622@w3.org
21:01:21 <DanC> ah... much better: "This
21:01:21 <DanC> specification does not define the value of the base IRI for SPARQL
21:01:21 <DanC> queries with no BASE directive."
21:01:36 <ericP> i've already put some IQs into this one, would like to see if there's anything wrong with it. (== less IQs for me to invest now)
21:02:29 <DanC> I think I revised one sentence in reply to .GA17622
21:02:57 <ericP> this extra turnaround through mail is causing me to lose stuff. i need to makie a list
21:03:01 <DanC> can you update rq23 with the text of GA17622 and then consider my ammendment?
21:03:11 <ericP> sure
21:03:24 <ericP> i have another pending update, the use of rdfs:Literal and rdfs:Resouce
21:03:55 <ericP> you commented that you prefere xsd:anyURI for the latter
21:04:05 <DanC> it's OK by me if you update rq23 before you get WG approval.
21:04:35 <ericP> great. apologies will be easier for me to manage than permissions
21:04:36 <DanC> yes, rdfs:Resource is a use/mention bug. (but let's please stick to the base thing 'till it's done, OK?)
21:05:07 <DanC> the only thing I don't want you to do without permission is to send an [OK?] msg to the commentor that includes changes to the spec.
21:05:08 <ericP> fair enough
21:11:54 <ericP> now looking for links for cvs commit...
21:12:26 <DanC> the relevant comment is http://www.w3.org/mid/431e392a.225659671@smtp.bjoern.hoehrmann.de 2005-07-22T00:09:21Z from derhoermi
21:14:34 <ericP> fsh is borken on my laptop
21:14:41 <ericP> ahh, finally done
21:15:37 <ericP> keep one persistent ssh connection to a host and have any call to ssh connect to it
21:16:01 <ericP> avoids DNS, TCP startup, cipher neg
21:16:29 <DanC> hmm... "respond to derhoermi's comment" would be better "update Query Term Syntax section to respond to derhoermi's comment". I think we'll need a changelog in document order from here on out.
21:16:46 <DanC> for next time.
21:17:14 <ericP> good point. (was rusty on descriptive commits)
21:17:31 <DanC> ok, now pls consider my ammendment.
21:17:41 <ericP> fussy bastard
21:17:46 <ericP> yeah, looking
21:18:12 <DanC> 1.481 says "Relative IRIs are combined with base IRIs as per RFC3986" but RFC3986 doesn't discuss IRIs. my suggestion is in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSep/0294.html
21:19:09 <ericP> i need a way to get threading through different mbox's to work in mutt
21:19:45 <DanC> umm... yeah... right after solving world hunger. ;-)
21:20:17 <ericP> oh, i guess that shoudl be higher priority
21:26:04 <DanC> there are several links to it in the doc; e.g. in IRI References
21:26:26 <DanC> ah... but you like the direct-link-too markup.
21:26:45 <DanC> there's one of those in B Security Considerations
21:28:45 <ericP> commited
21:29:44 <DanC> ok, good. Now mail those 2 paras to Bjorn. (4th and 5th paras under Query Term Syntax)
21:29:54 <DanC> and give him a pointer to rq23. And ask if he's happy
21:30:25 <ericP> ok. rdfs:Resource is next
21:30:47 <DanC> you want to mail Bjorn now while it's swapped in? Or shall I?
21:31:52 <ericP> i'm composing it now
21:31:57 <DanC> cool
21:32:27 <ericP> i've invited ivan to respond wiht a [CLOSED], which he did
21:33:03 <ericP> should i include that same text in the [OK?]s to folks like Bjoern?
21:33:32 <ericP> i.e., do you want to let them know they can close and issue (in every [OK?])?
21:33:38 <DanC> sure
21:33:40 <ericP> g
21:35:00 <DanC> I thought that was a pretty cute optimization of the process. It certainly worked well enough with Ivan.
21:39:24 <ericP> -> http://www.w3.org/mid/20050906213840.GC17752@w3.org response to Bjoern
21:39:53 <ericP> now use/mention
21:41:10 <ericP> -> http://www.w3.org/mid/8fb124d0eb673e8f6a31d3536a2409ce@w3.org Danc brings up "use/mention"
21:43:10 <DanC> the classes r:IRI and xsd:anyURI contain syntactic doodads; things that start with \w+: . The class rdfs:Resource contains those plus the elephant statue on my desk, sqrt(-1), and things that go bump in the night.
21:44:35 <ericP> what's ?o in the pattern ?s ?p ?o matching?
21:45:19 <DanC> ?o is a variable. it binds to a term. (a term is a syntactic doodad)
21:45:26 <DanC> "A pattern solution is a substitution function from a subset of the set of variables to the set of RDF terms, RDF-T."
21:48:34 <ericP> sorry, trying to think hard here
21:50:49 <ericP> #operandDataTypes intruduces some RDF term types into the set slurped from XPath
21:51:40 <ericP> they are then used in the funcs and ops
21:52:00 <DanC> yup. makes sense to use xs:anyURI there
21:52:56 <ericP> graph: :s :p "1"^^xsd:int
21:53:52 <ericP>       .
21:54:11 <ericP>        :s2 :p2 xsd:int .
21:55:24 <ericP> query: ASK WHERE {:s :p ?o . :s2 :p2 ?o2 FILTER DATATYPE(?o) = ?o2 }
21:56:48 <ericP> thta says to me that (barring more work in =) the DATATYPE of ?o is the same term as ?o2
21:57:50 <DanC> yes, that looks right.
21:58:48 <ericP> so whatever type xsd:int is is the same type that DATATYPE should return
21:59:44 <ericP> that is, i intended these functions to return exactly the types described in RDF abstract syntax
22:00:14 <DanC> right; rdfs:Resource is nowhere in the abstract syntax. the abstract syntax is composed of syntactic doodads.
22:00:33 <ericP> aha, does it have a type?
22:00:45 <DanC> it=?
22:01:13 <ericP> an rdf Resource as defined by the abstract syntax
22:01:14 <DanC> no, I don't think the RDF specs describe RDF syntax in RDF. shame, that.
22:01:30 <DanC> rdf Resource is not defined by the abstract syntax.
22:02:11 <DanC> things in the abstract syntax *refer* to resources. while they are resources themselves (everything is a resource), that's not a useful way to look at them.
22:02:55 <DanC> rdf:Statement is one piece of the abstract syntax that RDF gives a URI name to.
22:02:58 <ericP> everyone's implementation has a type for literals (maybe more) and a type for URIs
22:03:34 <DanC> yes, a type for URIs. xsd:anyURI
22:04:04 <ericP> i bet *they* don't know that
22:04:22 <DanC> which they? The XML Schema WG? yes, the do; I was they at the time...
22:04:42 <ericP> so i'm convinced if you think it will make sense to developers of, say, cwm, to call those things xsd:anyURI
22:04:51 <DanC> I do.
22:04:56 <ericP> they := rdf developers
22:05:14 <DanC> ah... that they. well, XML Schema got there 1st.
22:05:33 <DanC> and as we say in webarch, don't make up new names for things that already have names, without good reason.
22:06:50 <ericP> ok. i think this will require extra words to reassure RDF developers
22:07:07 <DanC> this easyChair submission has an interesting carrot/stick approach: you can see other reviews of a paper assigned to you, but *only after* you've submitted your review. So I'm motivated to send my reviews if only to see what other people thought.
22:07:12 <ericP> "What? I've been talking about xsd:anyURI all this time? The hell I have..."
22:07:37 <ericP> yeah, also motivated to send yours early
22:07:42 <DanC> the real stupidity is that we didn't identify plain literals with xsd:string literals. stupid stupid stupid.
22:08:06 <ericP> if you're first, noone sees how crappy your first pass was
22:11:40 <ericP> so i guess i'll put in xsd:anyURI and see what happens
22:13:29 <DanC> cool.
22:13:55 <DanC> wanna look over lc-status-report.html with me? (please?)
22:14:05 <ericP> let me do this first
22:14:37 <DanC> k
22:15:28 <DanC> hmm... my gizmo says I've got family obligations in a few minutes.
22:15:48 <DanC> and I gotta finish this OWLED review. so another time for lc-status-report.html
22:15:53 <ericP> roger
22:18:05 <ericP> do you feel that Literals should be an xsd type? or rdfs:Literal ?
22:20:15 <DanC> I don't think there's an xsd:type that corresponds to literals, no. rdfs:Literal is best.
22:22:22 <ericP> tx