IRC log of dawg on 2005-09-06

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:32:37 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #dawg
14:32:37 [RRSAgent]
logging to
14:32:43 [afs]
zakim, who is on the phone?
14:32:43 [Zakim]
On the phone I see +1.212.651.aaaa, ??P16, Kendall_Clark
14:33:01 [Zakim]
14:33:03 [afs]
zakim, ??P16 is HPLB
14:33:03 [Zakim]
+HPLB; got it
14:33:05 [DanC]
agenda + Convene, take roll, review records and agenda
14:33:12 [EliasT]
Zakim, IBMCambridge is EliasT
14:33:12 [Zakim]
+EliasT; got it
14:33:13 [DanC]
agenda + comment: Query forms should be resources, not operations
14:33:21 [DanC]
agenda + comment: SPARQL Protocol: inconsistent parameter names
14:33:27 [afs]
zakim, HPLB holds AndyS, DaveB
14:33:27 [Zakim]
+AndyS, DaveB; got it
14:33:29 [DanC]
agenda + Toward Protocol Last Call
14:33:37 [DanC]
agenda + BASE IRI resolution comment
14:33:39 [Zakim]
14:33:41 [LeeF]
Zakim, IBMCambridge is LeeF
14:33:41 [Zakim]
+LeeF; got it
14:33:45 [DanC]
agenda + issues#valueTesting : "language tag issues"
14:33:52 [DanC]
agenda + issues#valueTesting: handling type "error"s
14:33:58 [DanC]
agenda + issues#sort, comment ORDER with IRIs
14:34:05 [DanC]
agenda + Recent SPARQL QL comments
14:34:15 [DanC]
agenda + Toward SPARQL CR
14:34:21 [DanC]
agenda + Protocol Testing
14:34:21 [ericP]
zakim, please dial ericP-617
14:34:22 [Zakim]
ok, ericP; the call is being made
14:34:22 [Zakim]
14:34:26 [DanC]
agenda + WSDL last call
14:34:58 [Zakim]
14:35:05 [Zakim]
14:35:42 [JosD]
JosD has joined #dawg
14:35:53 [kendall]
kendall has joined #dawg
14:36:03 [DanC]
Zakim, aaa is RachelYager
14:36:03 [Zakim]
sorry, DanC, I do not recognize a party named 'aaa'
14:36:07 [DanC]
Zakim, aaaa is RachelYager
14:36:07 [Zakim]
+RachelYager; got it
14:36:12 [DanC]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
14:36:12 [Zakim]
On the phone I see RachelYager, HPLB, Kendall_Clark, EliasT, LeeF, EricP, DanC, ??P20
14:36:14 [Zakim]
HPLB has AndyS, DaveB
14:36:15 [DanC]
Zakim, take up item 1
14:36:15 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Convene, take roll, review records and agenda" taken up [from DanC]
14:36:38 [DanC]
Zakim, ??P20 is JeenB
14:36:38 [Zakim]
+JeenB; got it
14:36:41 [Zakim]
14:37:48 [DanC]
Regrets: SteveH
14:37:56 [kendall]
Regrets: SteveHarris, EnricoFranconi, JanneS
14:38:06 [ericP]
RRSAgent, pointer?
14:38:06 [RRSAgent]
14:38:16 [ericP]
Meeting: RDF Data Access
14:38:27 [kendall]
Rachel Yager, Financial Services Technology Consortium
14:38:31 [kendall]
new group member?
14:38:33 [ericP]
Time: 2005-09-06T14:30Z
14:38:53 [DanC]
-> minutes 30 Aug
14:39:06 [DanC]
RESOLVED to approve
14:39:10 [kendall]
Minutes from last week's meeting approved
14:39:54 [ericP]
Regrets for next week: JosD
14:40:14 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
14:40:14 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "comment: Query forms should be resources, not operations" taken up [from DanC]
14:42:10 [DanC]
ACTION DanC: find pointers to consideration of splitting CONSTRUCT / SELECT into separate interfaces
14:42:25 [kendall]
sorry about garbage truck noise
14:43:19 [DanC]
note WG is not persuaded by MarkB's arguments to reconsider protocol design
14:43:41 [DanC]
Zakim, next agendum
14:43:41 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "comment: SPARQL Protocol: inconsistent parameter names" taken up [from DanC]
14:44:14 [DanC]
ACTION KC: respond to inconsistent parameter names commentor
14:44:17 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
14:44:17 [Zakim]
agendum 3 was just opened, DanC
14:44:24 [DanC]
Zakim, close item 3
14:44:24 [Zakim]
agendum 3, comment: SPARQL Protocol: inconsistent parameter names, closed
14:44:26 [Zakim]
I see 9 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:44:27 [Zakim]
4. Toward Protocol Last Call [from DanC]
14:44:28 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
14:44:28 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Toward Protocol Last Call" taken up [from DanC]
14:44:48 [DanC] 1.67
14:45:26 [LeeF]
14:45:28 [LeeF]
I think.
14:47:17 [DanC]
DONE: ACTION: KendallC to add editorial note to protocol spec showing that our WSDL is not kosher and it depends on their final decision.
14:48:16 [DanC]
DONE: ACTION: KendallC, to relax the query-result type to allow "equivalent serialization"
14:48:27 [DanC]
in 2.1.3 query Out Message
14:49:09 [DanC]
c. CONSTRUCT with simple RDF dataset and HTTP content negotation
14:49:25 [DanC]
DONE: ACTION: KC to make conneg explicit in c. CONSTRUCT with simple RDF dataset and take accept: out elsewhere
14:49:56 [DanC]
KC: example numbering may change, and the example content will be generated by Lee's code, but otherwise, the examples are done
14:50:22 [DanC]
"finish description of SOAP bindings"
14:50:26 [DaveB]
there's about 4 '@@' labels in proto-wd as of now
14:52:15 [kendall]
I believe all of the @@ markers are for section numbers.
14:52:20 [DanC]
PROPOSED: to publish as Last Call WD, v 1.67 plus example section numbers, plus "finish description of SOAP bindings" reviewed by @@
14:52:29 [kendall]
1.68 has the proper compliance language, FWIW.
14:52:32 [DanC]
PROPOSED: to publish as Last Call WD, v 1.67 plus example section numbers, plus fixing @@ section refs, plus "finish description of SOAP bindings" reviewed by @@
14:52:43 [DanC]
PROPOSED: to publish as Last Call WD, v 1.68 plus example section numbers, plus fixing @@ section refs, plus "finish description of SOAP bindings" reviewed by @@
14:53:02 [kendall]
A compliant SPARQL Protocol service must support the SparqlQuery interface; if a SPARQL Protocol service supports either HTTP or SOAP bindings, it must support the bindings as described in sparql-protocol-query.wsdl. A SPARQL Protocol service may support other interfaces.
14:55:56 [DaveB]
I can see a sparql syntax bug in one of the queries right now
14:56:14 [kendall]
a guessing game, yay!
14:56:18 [DaveB]
14:56:25 [DanC]
"i. SELECT with malformed query fault"
14:57:55 [DaveB]
and k. elides the body of the query with '...'
14:57:55 [DanC]
PROPOSED: to publish as Last Call WD, v 1.68 plus example section numbers, plus fixing @@ section refs, plus "finish description of SOAP bindings" reviewed by @@, plus change "i. This SPARQL query" to "i. This erroneous SPARQL query..."
14:58:50 [kendall]
I added "syntactically invalid"
14:59:54 [afs]
The current protocol draft + agreed mods as per Dan's proposal + clearer bad syntax is good to me.
15:01:21 [DanC]
so we'll regen the examples after last call.
15:02:59 [DanC]
PROPOSED: to publish as Last Call WD, v 1.68 plus example section numbers, plus fixing @@ section refs, plus "finish description of SOAP bindings", plus change "i. This SPARQL query" to "i. This erroneous SPARQL query..."
15:03:36 [kendall]
"syntactically invalid" == "erroneous"?
15:03:44 [DanC]
15:03:46 [kendall]
15:03:52 [DanC]
15:04:10 [kendall]
heh, join the club ;>
15:04:21 [DanC]
ACTION EricP: publish proto-wd as above
15:04:26 [DanC]
critical path: EP, KC
15:05:27 [DanC]
(yes, those actions under item 12 are continued)
15:05:40 [kendall]
15:05:47 [kendall]
or the RDF mapping
15:06:31 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
15:06:31 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "BASE IRI resolution comment" taken up [from DanC]
15:06:32 [kendall]
15:07:08 [kendall]
(hmm, so did we decide to tell mark baker that we're going forward, or will Last Call signal that sufficiently?)
15:07:31 [DanC]
ACTION: ericP to send [OK?] message to Bjoern. re BASE IRI resolution comment
15:07:38 [DanC]
(DanC will explain more after the meeting)
15:07:55 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
15:07:55 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "issues#valueTesting : "language tag issues"" taken up [from DanC]
15:09:09 [DanC]
lang(?x) = "en" # or not
15:09:25 [DanC]
lang-match("en-us", "en") # true
15:09:55 [DanC]
lang-match(?, "en") # true if ?x is bound to "en-us"
15:10:55 [DaveB]
thinking: so for some rdf literal ?x, lang-match(lang(?x), "en") is true if for example, ?x is bound to "EN-US"
15:12:25 [ericP]
15:12:26 [ericP]
lang-match(lang(?x), "en") matches if ?x@en or ?x@en-us
15:12:33 [ericP]
lang-match(lang(?x), "en-us") matches if ?x@en or ?x@en-us
15:12:34 [ericP]
15:12:48 [afs]
Minor: langMatch (no "-") would be more inline with the grammar so far. Could have a keyword with "-" no probs there.
15:12:57 [DanC]
. ACTION ericp: draft lang-match design, summarizing and citing RFC3066
15:13:09 [DanC]
ACTION ericp: draft lang-match design, summarizing and citing RFC3066
15:13:28 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
15:13:28 [Zakim]
agendum 7. "issues#valueTesting: handling type "error"s" taken up [from DanC]
15:13:33 [kendall]
err... sorry for crap scribe job... busy making text changes & answering Arjohn's email
15:13:46 [ericP]
DanC: bonus points for test cases
15:16:30 [DanC]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:16:30 [Zakim]
On the phone I see RachelYager, HPLB, Kendall_Clark, EliasT, LeeF, EricP, DanC, JeenB, Jos_De_Roo
15:16:32 [Zakim]
HPLB has AndyS, DaveB
15:17:39 [kendall]
it's a dry, dry well on this subject! :>
15:19:10 [DanC]
yes, it would help to have "known datatypes" in the test manifest (as in WebOnt/OWL)
15:19:36 [afs]
Round table?
15:20:34 [DanC]
EricP pref 0
15:20:36 [DanC]
DanC pref 1
15:20:39 [DanC]
Jos pref 1
15:21:09 [DanC]
Andy pref 0... er... 0 or 1 depending on server knowledge
15:22:16 [kendall]
Dave pref 0
15:22:27 [afs]
"=" can only return true if it positively knows the fact to be true (and it can be odd that !(XXI=21) \=> XXI!=21)
15:22:52 [DaveB]
I say, if we say the list of datatypes supported is (... a set ..) and that set is the set of datatypes in the query spec, the answer must be 0
15:24:21 [afs]
Can URIs denote numbers?
15:25:55 [ericP]
-> experiments with flags in result sets
15:27:29 [ericP]
-> modifying truth table for OR
15:27:59 [DanC]
(maybe I should have reopened issues#disjunction instead of or in addition to #valueTesting)
15:29:05 [DanC]
EricP: currently, (typeerror || X) give X. commentor asks for (typerror || true) gives true, (typerror || false) gives typeerror [did I get that right, ericp?]
15:29:33 [afs]
issue #disjunction is about graph pattern disjunction but here we are in F&O space. I don't know if these can be equated.
15:29:49 [DanC]
ok, so #disjunction is separate.
15:30:56 [afs]
That's as I understand it. It would be nice if filters and graph patterns were more strongly related.
15:31:24 [afs]
But it may be that it just isn't possible to use F&O and equate to graph patterns in all cases
15:33:18 [DanC]
(chair is at that point of choosing between putting a question or actioning somebody to make the WG smarter)
15:33:30 [ericP]
extendedType-eq-pass and extendedType-ne-fail
15:34:29 [DaveB]
?? !("a" 1) || true
15:34:31 [DanC]
. ACTION EricP: draft text and propose tests for { (typerror || false) gives typeerror }
15:34:36 [DaveB]
?? !("a" + 1) || true
15:35:13 [ericP]
!(typeError || FALSE)
15:35:18 [afs]
!(||) is related to && Do these the truth tables work out for && as well?
15:35:37 [ericP]
!("a" + 1 || FALSE)
15:35:52 [ericP]
by LC, that returns a TRUE
15:36:03 [ericP]
by TimBL, it returns no solution
15:36:32 [ericP]
(i.e., the FILTER encounter a typeError and eliminates that solution)
15:36:44 [ericP]
-> modifying truth table for OR
15:37:56 [DanC]
ACTION EricP: get SteveH's response to 0360 modifying truth table for OR
15:38:07 [afs]
I *think* that's OK - would like to test before vote
15:38:16 [ericP]
15:40:56 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
15:40:56 [Zakim]
agendum 8. "issues#sort, comment ORDER with IRIs" taken up [from DanC]
15:41:50 [DanC]
AFS: ORDER BY devolves to < ... which isn't defined for IRIs, strings...
15:43:15 [DaveB]
(fn:compare has an optional collation argument)
15:43:54 [DaveB]
15:45:23 [DanC]
agenda + <query><query>SELECT
15:45:30 [kendall]
15:46:37 [DanC]
PROPOSED: to extend < to apply to strings and IRIs, and to use this for sorting IRIs.
15:47:06 [DanC]
PROPOSED: to extend < to apply to strings and IRIs based on XPath/XQuery F&O #func-compare, and to use this for sorting IRIs.
15:50:25 [afs]
Q for understanding: Why "<" on IRIs? Use case?
15:50:53 [DanC]
PROPOSED: to extend < to apply to strings based on XPath/XQuery F&O #func-compare, and to use this for sorting IRIs.
15:51:22 [DanC]
PROPOSED: to extend < and other relational ops to apply to strings based on XPath/XQuery F&O #func-compare, and to use this for sorting IRIs.
15:52:11 [DaveB]
15:53:32 [DaveB]
in there is the reference to the defaults for collation and the unicode code point collation
15:53:53 [DanC]
PROPOSED: to extend < and other relational ops to apply to strings based on XPath/XQuery F&O #func-compare, and to use this for sorting IRIs.
15:54:17 [DanC]
15:54:25 [DanC]
ACTION DanC: ask I18N WG for review
15:54:54 [DanC]
ACTION EricP: extend < and relational ops, get review by Andy
15:56:21 [DanC]
ACTION DaveB: find query with FILTER on URIs
15:56:38 [DanC]
action -9
15:57:03 [DanC]
Zakim, close this item
15:57:03 [Zakim]
agendum 8 closed
15:57:04 [Zakim]
I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:57:05 [Zakim]
9. Recent SPARQL QL comments [from DanC]
15:57:14 [DanC]
Zakim, take up item 13
15:57:14 [Zakim]
agendum 13. "<query><query>SELECT" taken up [from DanC]
15:57:18 [kendall]
I changed <query><sparql-query>SELECT to <query><query>SELECT, and I should have changed it to <query-request><query>SELECT
15:57:47 [afs]
That looks fine.
15:58:12 [DanC]
PROPOSED: to change the outer <query> element name to <query-request>
15:59:06 [DanC]
so RESOLVED. EricP abstaining
15:59:11 [DanC]
Zakim, close this item
15:59:11 [Zakim]
agendum 13 closed
15:59:12 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:59:13 [Zakim]
9. Recent SPARQL QL comments [from DanC]
15:59:33 [kendall]
it's huge and a bit scary, IMO
15:59:40 [DanC]
16:03:36 [DanC]
Zakim, next agendum
16:03:36 [Zakim]
agendum 9. "Recent SPARQL QL comments" taken up [from DanC]
16:03:42 [DanC]
Zakim, close item 9
16:03:42 [Zakim]
agendum 9, Recent SPARQL QL comments, closed
16:03:43 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:03:44 [Zakim]
10. Toward SPARQL CR [from DanC]
16:03:50 [DanC]
Zakim, close item 10
16:03:50 [Zakim]
agendum 10, Toward SPARQL CR, closed
16:03:51 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:03:52 [Zakim]
11. Protocol Testing [from DanC]
16:03:59 [DanC]
Zakim, close item 11
16:03:59 [Zakim]
agendum 11, Protocol Testing, closed
16:04:00 [Zakim]
I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
16:04:01 [Zakim]
12. WSDL last call [from DanC]
16:04:06 [DanC]
Zakim, close item 12
16:04:06 [Zakim]
agendum 12, WSDL last call, closed
16:04:07 [Zakim]
I see nothing remaining on the agenda
16:04:09 [DanC]
16:04:25 [DanC]
RRSAgent, make logs world-access
16:04:41 [DanC]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:04:41 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate DanC
16:09:12 [kendall]
I don't know that that's true, but I don't know it's false.
16:10:48 [kendall]
afs: I didn't follow yr last point about execution speed and UI...?
16:16:52 [Zakim]
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EliasT has joined #dawg
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16:23:55 [Zakim]
16:24:02 [Zakim]
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SW_DAWG()10:30AM has ended
16:24:04 [Zakim]
Attendees were +1.212.651.aaaa, Kendall_Clark, EliasT, AndyS, DaveB, LeeF, EricP, DanC, RachelYager, JeenB, Jos_De_Roo
16:24:23 [EliasT]
DanC can we talk about examples?
16:24:31 [DanC]
umm... ok
16:24:38 [EliasT]
16:24:47 [DanC]
Zakim, room for 4?
16:24:48 [Zakim]
ok, DanC; conference Team_(dawg)16:24Z scheduled with code 83261 (TEAM1) for 60 minutes until 1724Z
16:24:53 [EliasT]
617 693 0120
16:24:55 [Zakim]
Team_(dawg)16:24Z has now started
16:24:55 [Zakim]
16:25:11 [kendall]
use the dawg conf code?
16:25:28 [DanC]
the dawg code won't work, but 83261 (TEAM1) will
16:25:32 [kendall]
16:25:58 [Zakim]
16:26:00 [Zakim]
16:26:01 [Zakim]
16:26:06 [EliasT]
Zakim, IBMCambridge is EliasT
16:26:06 [Zakim]
+EliasT; got it
16:26:49 [Zakim]
16:27:38 [DanC]
connolly@dirk:~/w3ccvs/WWW/2001/sw/DataAccess$ cvs update -d proto-tests
16:28:21 [DanC]
16:28:50 [EliasT]
<!-- ptest describe-simple query -->
16:28:53 [EliasT]
<!-- ptest -->
16:29:16 [DanC]
er... how about <div class="ptest" id="describe-simple">
16:29:25 [EliasT]
GET /sparql/?query=EncodedQuery HTTP/1.1
16:29:26 [EliasT]
Host: my.example
16:29:26 [EliasT]
User-agent: my-sparql-client/0.1
16:32:29 [DanC]
<pre class="query">
16:33:09 [EliasT]
./ --location
16:34:01 [EliasT]
<div class="ptest" id="describe-simple"></div>
16:34:25 [EliasT]
<pre><!-- ptest describe-simple query -->
16:34:33 [EliasT]
<!-- ptest --></pre>
16:39:38 [kendall]
status code and Content-Type are the only HTTP headers in the response that matter
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16:47:16 [Zakim]
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Team_(dawg)16:24Z has ended
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Attendees were DanC, EliasT, Kendall_Clark
17:01:54 [EliasT]
EliasT has left #dawg
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Zakim has left #dawg
19:12:54 [danbri]
danbri has joined #dawg
19:24:54 [DanC]
darn; neglected to go over Base stuff with ericp
19:36:53 [LeeF]
LeeF has left #dawg
20:55:49 [ericP]
DanC, want to talk about now?
20:56:01 [DanC]
ah. hi. sure.
20:56:27 [DanC]
so here's the comment
20:57:30 [DanC]
this text looks responsive... [[
20:57:31 [DanC]
Relative IRIs are combined with base IRIs as per Uniform Resource Identifier (URI): Generic Syntax [RFC3986] using only the basic algorithm in Section 5.2 . Neither Syntax-Based Normalization nor Scheme-Based Normalization (described in sections 6.2.2 and 6.2.3 of RFC3986) is performed.
20:57:31 [DanC]
20:57:41 [DanC]
but I wonder about [[ The resolution of relative IRIs in SPARQL queries with no BASE is not defined. ]]
20:58:03 [DanC]
what we want to say is that the base URI in case of no BASE directive is undefined.
20:58:37 [ericP]
yeah, i thought i composed that
20:58:55 [ericP]
maybe it went to the WG for approval and sank into the swamp
21:00:07 [DanC]
s/The resolution of relative IRIs in SPARQL queries with no BASE is not defined.//
21:00:20 [DanC]
just strike that. The text above suffices: "The base IRI for the resolution of relative IRIs may be explicitly declared with the BASE keyword."
21:00:42 [DanC]
I'm pretty sure we have all the WG approval we need for this one.
21:00:49 [ericP]
21:01:21 [DanC]
ah... much better: "This
21:01:21 [DanC]
specification does not define the value of the base IRI for SPARQL
21:01:21 [DanC]
queries with no BASE directive."
21:01:36 [ericP]
i've already put some IQs into this one, would like to see if there's anything wrong with it. (== less IQs for me to invest now)
21:02:29 [DanC]
I think I revised one sentence in reply to .GA17622
21:02:57 [ericP]
this extra turnaround through mail is causing me to lose stuff. i need to makie a list
21:03:01 [DanC]
can you update rq23 with the text of GA17622 and then consider my ammendment?
21:03:11 [ericP]
21:03:24 [ericP]
i have another pending update, the use of rdfs:Literal and rdfs:Resouce
21:03:55 [ericP]
you commented that you prefere xsd:anyURI for the latter
21:04:05 [DanC]
it's OK by me if you update rq23 before you get WG approval.
21:04:35 [ericP]
great. apologies will be easier for me to manage than permissions
21:04:36 [DanC]
yes, rdfs:Resource is a use/mention bug. (but let's please stick to the base thing 'till it's done, OK?)
21:05:07 [DanC]
the only thing I don't want you to do without permission is to send an [OK?] msg to the commentor that includes changes to the spec.
21:05:08 [ericP]
fair enough
21:11:54 [ericP]
now looking for links for cvs commit...
21:12:26 [DanC]
the relevant comment is 2005-07-22T00:09:21Z from derhoermi
21:14:34 [ericP]
fsh is borken on my laptop
21:14:41 [ericP]
ahh, finally done
21:15:37 [ericP]
keep one persistent ssh connection to a host and have any call to ssh connect to it
21:16:01 [ericP]
avoids DNS, TCP startup, cipher neg
21:16:29 [DanC]
hmm... "respond to derhoermi's comment" would be better "update Query Term Syntax section to respond to derhoermi's comment". I think we'll need a changelog in document order from here on out.
21:16:46 [DanC]
for next time.
21:17:14 [ericP]
good point. (was rusty on descriptive commits)
21:17:31 [DanC]
ok, now pls consider my ammendment.
21:17:41 [ericP]
fussy bastard
21:17:46 [ericP]
yeah, looking
21:18:12 [DanC]
1.481 says "Relative IRIs are combined with base IRIs as per RFC3986" but RFC3986 doesn't discuss IRIs. my suggestion is in
21:19:09 [ericP]
i need a way to get threading through different mbox's to work in mutt
21:19:45 [DanC]
umm... yeah... right after solving world hunger. ;-)
21:20:17 [ericP]
oh, i guess that shoudl be higher priority
21:26:04 [DanC]
there are several links to it in the doc; e.g. in IRI References
21:26:26 [DanC]
ah... but you like the direct-link-too markup.
21:26:45 [DanC]
there's one of those in B Security Considerations
21:28:45 [ericP]
21:29:44 [DanC]
ok, good. Now mail those 2 paras to Bjorn. (4th and 5th paras under Query Term Syntax)
21:29:54 [DanC]
and give him a pointer to rq23. And ask if he's happy
21:30:25 [ericP]
ok. rdfs:Resource is next
21:30:47 [DanC]
you want to mail Bjorn now while it's swapped in? Or shall I?
21:31:52 [ericP]
i'm composing it now
21:31:57 [DanC]
21:32:27 [ericP]
i've invited ivan to respond wiht a [CLOSED], which he did
21:33:03 [ericP]
should i include that same text in the [OK?]s to folks like Bjoern?
21:33:32 [ericP]
i.e., do you want to let them know they can close and issue (in every [OK?])?
21:33:38 [DanC]
21:33:40 [ericP]
21:35:00 [DanC]
I thought that was a pretty cute optimization of the process. It certainly worked well enough with Ivan.
21:39:24 [ericP]
-> response to Bjoern
21:39:53 [ericP]
now use/mention
21:41:10 [ericP]
-> Danc brings up "use/mention"
21:43:10 [DanC]
the classes r:IRI and xsd:anyURI contain syntactic doodads; things that start with \w+: . The class rdfs:Resource contains those plus the elephant statue on my desk, sqrt(-1), and things that go bump in the night.
21:44:35 [ericP]
what's ?o in the pattern ?s ?p ?o matching?
21:45:19 [DanC]
?o is a variable. it binds to a term. (a term is a syntactic doodad)
21:45:26 [DanC]
"A pattern solution is a substitution function from a subset of the set of variables to the set of RDF terms, RDF-T."
21:48:34 [ericP]
sorry, trying to think hard here
21:50:49 [ericP]
#operandDataTypes intruduces some RDF term types into the set slurped from XPath
21:51:40 [ericP]
they are then used in the funcs and ops
21:52:00 [DanC]
yup. makes sense to use xs:anyURI there
21:52:56 [ericP]
graph: :s :p "1"^^xsd:int
21:53:52 [ericP]
21:54:11 [ericP]
:s2 :p2 xsd:int .
21:55:24 [ericP]
query: ASK WHERE {:s :p ?o . :s2 :p2 ?o2 FILTER DATATYPE(?o) = ?o2 }
21:56:48 [ericP]
thta says to me that (barring more work in =) the DATATYPE of ?o is the same term as ?o2
21:57:50 [DanC]
yes, that looks right.
21:58:48 [ericP]
so whatever type xsd:int is is the same type that DATATYPE should return
21:59:44 [ericP]
that is, i intended these functions to return exactly the types described in RDF abstract syntax
22:00:14 [DanC]
right; rdfs:Resource is nowhere in the abstract syntax. the abstract syntax is composed of syntactic doodads.
22:00:33 [ericP]
aha, does it have a type?
22:00:45 [DanC]
22:01:13 [ericP]
an rdf Resource as defined by the abstract syntax
22:01:14 [DanC]
no, I don't think the RDF specs describe RDF syntax in RDF. shame, that.
22:01:30 [DanC]
rdf Resource is not defined by the abstract syntax.
22:02:11 [DanC]
things in the abstract syntax *refer* to resources. while they are resources themselves (everything is a resource), that's not a useful way to look at them.
22:02:55 [DanC]
rdf:Statement is one piece of the abstract syntax that RDF gives a URI name to.
22:02:58 [ericP]
everyone's implementation has a type for literals (maybe more) and a type for URIs
22:03:34 [DanC]
yes, a type for URIs. xsd:anyURI
22:04:04 [ericP]
i bet *they* don't know that
22:04:22 [DanC]
which they? The XML Schema WG? yes, the do; I was they at the time...
22:04:42 [ericP]
so i'm convinced if you think it will make sense to developers of, say, cwm, to call those things xsd:anyURI
22:04:51 [DanC]
I do.
22:04:56 [ericP]
they := rdf developers
22:05:14 [DanC]
ah... that they. well, XML Schema got there 1st.
22:05:33 [DanC]
and as we say in webarch, don't make up new names for things that already have names, without good reason.
22:06:50 [ericP]
ok. i think this will require extra words to reassure RDF developers
22:07:07 [DanC]
this easyChair submission has an interesting carrot/stick approach: you can see other reviews of a paper assigned to you, but *only after* you've submitted your review. So I'm motivated to send my reviews if only to see what other people thought.
22:07:12 [ericP]
"What? I've been talking about xsd:anyURI all this time? The hell I have..."
22:07:37 [ericP]
yeah, also motivated to send yours early
22:07:42 [DanC]
the real stupidity is that we didn't identify plain literals with xsd:string literals. stupid stupid stupid.
22:08:06 [ericP]
if you're first, noone sees how crappy your first pass was
22:11:40 [ericP]
so i guess i'll put in xsd:anyURI and see what happens
22:13:29 [DanC]
22:13:55 [DanC]
wanna look over lc-status-report.html with me? (please?)
22:14:05 [ericP]
let me do this first
22:14:37 [DanC]
22:15:28 [DanC]
hmm... my gizmo says I've got family obligations in a few minutes.
22:15:48 [DanC]
and I gotta finish this OWLED review. so another time for lc-status-report.html
22:15:53 [ericP]
22:18:05 [ericP]
do you feel that Literals should be an xsd type? or rdfs:Literal ?
22:20:15 [DanC]
I don't think there's an xsd:type that corresponds to literals, no. rdfs:Literal is best.
22:22:22 [ericP]