IRC log of wai-wcag on 2005-08-31

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:56:29 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
13:56:29 [RRSAgent]
logging to
13:56:31 [Zakim]
WAI_WCAG(techniques)10:00AM has now started
13:56:35 [ben]
RRSAgent, off
13:59:28 [ben]
Chair: Michael_Cooper
13:59:33 [ben]
14:00:32 [ben]
RRSAgent, make log world
14:00:38 [ben]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:00:38 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate ben
14:01:05 [ben]
RRSAgent, make log world
14:01:26 [ChrisR]
ChrisR has joined #wai-wcag
14:01:30 [Zakim]
14:01:42 [ben]
Meeting: WCAG Techniques Task Force Weekly Telecon
14:01:51 [ben]
RRSAgent, off
14:06:39 [ben]
14:07:36 [Michael]
regrets: Becky Gibson, John Slatin
14:08:29 [ben]
zakim, take up agendum 1
14:08:30 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Complete the prioritization of techniques harvesting" taken up [from ben]
14:08:47 [ben]
14:08:56 [ben]
14:09:07 [Michael]
14:09:54 [Zakim]
14:10:00 [Zakim]
14:10:20 [Michael]
scribe: Tim
14:10:44 [Michael]
zakim, Microsoft is Rob_Haverty
14:10:44 [Zakim]
+Rob_Haverty; got it
14:10:49 [Michael]
zakim, ??P22 is Lisa_Seeman
14:10:49 [Zakim]
+Lisa_Seeman; got it
14:11:42 [Tim]
mc: prioritize high medium low
14:12:42 [Tim]
mc: General first take in order
14:13:41 [Tim]
What is a good alt. For functional non-text content simple ex calculator
14:13:50 [Tim]
this one is high priority
14:14:23 [Tim]
What captions are and audio description are how to provide them
14:15:00 [Tim]
high priority
14:15:16 [Tim]
Need to provide information about caption formats that can be used
14:15:57 [Tim]
high priority
14:16:14 [Tim]
Include discussion of open captioned format alongside non-captioned
14:17:20 [Zakim]
14:17:20 [Tim]
high priority
14:17:35 [Tim]
Describe audio descriptions and how to create them
14:18:18 [Tim]
marked as duplicate
14:18:32 [Tim]
Techniques for switching audio tracks
14:19:01 [Tim]
low priority
14:19:15 [Tim]
ADI guidelines for AD -
14:19:35 [Tim]
marked as resource
14:19:57 [Tim]
Time shifting
14:21:46 [Tim]
medium priority
14:21:59 [Tim]
Streaming captions:
14:22:07 [Tim]
high priority
14:22:17 [Tim]
Captions being provided in a separate window
14:22:33 [Tim]
medium priority
14:22:47 [Tim]
Could also talk about open captions
14:23:42 [Tim]
high priority, but a duplicate
14:23:57 [Tim]
Providing sign language video e.g., vcom 3d
14:24:57 [Tim]
medium for this one
14:25:09 [Tim]
Get rnid to provide techniques
14:25:12 [Tim]
14:25:23 [Tim]
Techniques for where to position
14:25:41 [Tim]
medium or low?
14:25:53 [Tim]
mc: skip next two just resources
14:26:15 [Tim]
John Slatin's performance where the audio description was scripted but done "live"
14:27:07 [Tim]
14:27:23 [Tim]
two resources mentioned previously are high priority
14:27:51 [Tim]
Radio describes - that's why lots of people listen to the radio and watch at the same time
14:29:14 [Tim]
14:29:29 [Tim]
Relationship between caption/audio description and multimedia
14:31:30 [Tim]
medium priority
14:31:54 [Tim]
mc: previous tech should be mapped to 1.2L3SC3
14:32:13 [Tim]
Asterisk near required field instead of just making it red
14:32:41 [Tim]
high priority
14:33:02 [Tim]
Color for headings
14:36:13 [Tim]
low priority
14:37:06 [Tim]
mc: ACTION ls send proposal to list about missing SC around visual pres of structure
14:37:27 [Tim]
Encoding color so that it can be programmatically determined: have to specify it a certain way so that ats can pick it up
14:38:58 [Tim]
medium but technology-specific
14:39:14 [Tim]
Indicating correct and incorrect
14:40:25 [Tim]
high priority
14:40:36 [Tim]
Choosing technologies whose players expose text attributes to AT
14:42:40 [Tim]
14:42:54 [Tim]
Sequences between delivery units
14:44:04 [Tim]
14:44:41 [Tim]
(only general)
14:44:50 [Tim]
high priority
14:45:03 [Tim]
(general techniques)
14:45:11 [Tim]
high priority
14:46:17 [Tim]
Provide links to tools to evaluate
14:46:37 [Tim]
14:46:48 [Tim]
Strategy for measuring
14:47:07 [Tim]
high priority
14:47:19 [Tim]
Keyboard access to controls used in mapping programs
14:48:41 [Tim]
marked as example for Guide
14:49:03 [Tim]
Show time remaining
14:49:47 [Tim]
low priority
14:49:58 [Tim]
Creating a time out with a way to turn it off
14:50:00 [Tim]
high priority
14:50:11 [Tim]
Pausing multimedia
14:50:18 [Tim]
medium or low
14:50:29 [Tim]
Design content without requiring timing
14:50:33 [Tim]
high priority
14:50:45 [Tim]
Address online testing
14:51:27 [Tim]
high priority
14:51:40 [Tim]
Turning things off
14:52:09 [Tim]
medium and technology-specific
14:52:23 [Tim]
How to provide a good warning and using entry pages (issues around controlling path users use to get to a page)
14:54:04 [Tim]
mc: this one plus next six are marked as high priority
14:54:50 [Tim]
Linking to related content
14:56:11 [Tim]
high priority
14:56:37 [Tim]
mc: next three are all high priority
14:56:55 [Zakim]
14:56:56 [ChrisR]
ChrisR has left #wai-wcag
14:57:06 [Tim]
Hide repeated content
14:58:09 [Tim]
low priority
14:58:19 [Tim]
Writing a good title
14:58:21 [Tim]
high priority
14:58:39 [Tim]
Titles being unique?
14:58:44 [Tim]
low priority
14:59:41 [Tim]
Breadcrumb navigation
15:01:56 [Tim]
medium priority
15:02:11 [Tim]
Navbars showing location (new technique)
15:02:19 [Tim]
high priority
15:02:34 [Tim]
Using icons and color to differentiate sections of a site
15:03:24 [Tim]
15:03:37 [Tim]
Negative technique around breaking the back button?
15:04:52 [Tim]
low priority but good advice
15:05:17 [Tim]
Using different colors on visited vs. Unvisited links
15:05:48 [Tim]
low priority but good advice
15:06:04 [Tim]
Validation of credit card formats
15:07:37 [Tim]
example for guide but new technique needed validating form fields which would be high
15:08:19 [Tim]
Writing understandable 401 or 404 pages
15:08:35 [Tim]
15:09:31 [Tim]
Provide a guess when desired page is not found "smart 404"
15:09:31 [Tim]
15:10:27 [Tim]
Google "did you mean" example
15:11:08 [Tim]
15:11:19 [Tim]
Provide a list of words that are similar
15:11:24 [Tim]
15:11:35 [Tim]
Type 3 letters and provide a list of choices that begin with those letters
15:11:36 [Tim]
15:11:50 [Tim]
Use soundex codes
15:11:51 [Tim]
15:12:07 [Tim]
Google suggest? Http://
15:12:13 [Tim]
15:12:34 [Tim]
Show similar search results/matches
15:12:45 [Tim]
In page link from error message to field with the error
15:12:48 [Tim]
high priority
15:13:07 [Tim]
A featured link in amazon?
15:13:11 [Tim]
15:13:21 [Tim]
Query enhancements
15:13:23 [Tim]
15:13:37 [Tim]
Dividing processes into steps and allowing forward and backward nav.
15:13:39 [Tim]
high priority
15:13:53 [Tim]
Return a new form with only the incorrect fields available
15:14:04 [Tim]
15:14:31 [Tim]
Programmatically provide supplemental information - tooltips with additional info or help
15:14:50 [Tim]
mc: should be mapped to 2.5L3SC1
15:15:27 [Tim]
high priority
15:15:38 [Tim]
Confirmation window opens to show user action has completed
15:15:51 [Tim]
high priority
15:16:08 [Tim]
Provide spell checking
15:16:11 [Tim]
15:16:20 [Tim]
Help bubbles
15:16:28 [Tim]
15:17:33 [Tim]
change medium to high
15:17:42 [Tim]
Tooltips using title
15:17:43 [Zakim]
15:20:11 [Tim]
marked as medium and awaiting proposal from Lisa
15:20:26 [Tim]
Do not use same words or letter combinations to begin each item of the list
15:21:41 [Tim]
medium but should map to Guideline 3.1
15:22:00 [Tim]
Providing help link on every page
15:22:57 [Tim]
high priority but should map to Guideline 3.1
15:23:12 [Tim]
(annoying) assistant in the corner of the page
15:23:27 [Zakim]
15:23:50 [Tim]
low priority
15:24:02 [Tim]
How to use templates - put language in just once in the template. This could also be used in many other areas
15:24:55 [Zakim]
15:25:04 [Tim]
high priority but should map to Guideline 3.1
15:25:14 [Tim]
Provide definitions via bubble help
15:26:00 [Tim]
high priority
15:26:10 [Tim]
Provide hyperlinks to relevant online dictionaries
15:26:27 [Tim]
15:26:38 [Tim]
Internal linking
15:26:53 [Tim]
high priority
15:27:08 [Tim]
Expanded form presented first time it is used and acronym is presented in parends after - then use acronym in subsequent references
15:27:39 [Tim]
high priority
15:27:51 [Tim]
Provide search engine to look up
15:28:09 [Tim]
low priority
15:28:17 [Tim]
How to mark up section titles
15:29:27 [Tim]
high priority
15:29:37 [Tim]
How to write descriptive titles
15:29:39 [Tim]
high priority
15:30:12 [Tim]
Recommendations on how to provide the alternatives
15:30:16 [Tim]
high priority
15:30:32 [Tim]
Front load the document - make first paragraph the summary
15:32:12 [Tim]
15:32:23 [Tim]
Make sure spoken version of text content is not started automatically in the background or only at the user's request
15:33:18 [Tim]
high priority in "seealso" sense
15:33:31 [Tim]
General tech about introducing subitems to clarify allowed
15:34:00 [Tim]
high priority
15:34:18 [Tim]
Change of context - a change of user agent, viewport, user interface controls, or focus; or complete change of content.
15:34:23 [Tim]
high priority
15:34:55 [Tim]
This is more about generating the page rather than fixing later. Perhaps general technique "just do it..."
15:36:14 [Tim]
high priority for the Guide
15:36:33 [Tim]
Test - if a graphic is associated with different uris on different pages, flag them and determine if differences make sense. If not, make consistent.
15:37:04 [Tim]
kill as tech but useful as test
15:37:18 [Tim]
No automatic refreshes, at all.
15:37:34 [Tim]
high priority
15:37:47 [Tim]
Navigating around page, shouldn't cause change of context (e.g., pop-ups). However, this meant to mean "only by user request."
15:37:59 [Tim]
high priority
15:38:09 [Tim]
Changes of user agent
15:38:12 [Tim]
also high priority
15:38:22 [Tim]
Change in user interface control?
15:38:46 [Tim]
high priority
15:39:03 [Tim]
Links to alternatives (concern about these and cyberghetto)
15:39:06 [Tim]
high priority
15:39:19 [Tim]
Keyboard handling
15:39:24 [Tim]
high priority
15:39:37 [Tim]
Not trapping keyboard
15:39:40 [Tim]
high priority
15:39:59 [Tim]
"hit x to return to previous page" covered by "must be able to use w/keyboard"
15:40:05 [Tim]
marked as duplicate
15:40:13 [Tim]
Getting trapped in a plug-in
15:40:17 [Tim]
marked as duplicate
15:40:27 [Tim]
Can never use contenteditable? Should document workarounds/games/kludges related to
15:41:03 [Tim]
15:41:18 [Tim]
There are techniques but can't validate right now and don't have spec *yet*
15:41:47 [ben]
zakim, who is here?
15:41:47 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Tim_Boland, Michael_Cooper, Christophe_Strobbe, Ben_Caldwell, Rob_Haverty, Matt_May, Lisa_Seeman
15:41:49 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Michael, wendy, Tim, RRSAgent, Christophe_S, Zakim, ben, leasa
15:41:51 [Tim]
low priority and technology-specific
15:42:27 [Tim]
However, if use elements semantically correctly would satisfy to best of ability. Also, in some techs (flash) don't' you have to do for info to get passed through?
15:46:25 [Tim]
change "low priority and tech specific" previous to "hold" for prev tech
15:47:15 [Tim]
Also "hold" for "However, if use.. tech
15:47:30 [Tim]
Concern that people creating UI elements with a and div and is that not using the elements semantically correctly
15:47:52 [Tim]
high priority but HTML-specific
15:48:07 [Tim]
Issue - is it possible to meet the strict interpretation of this in HTML? If not, what is the intent? Can we meet the intent with other wording?
15:48:15 [Tim]
kill as technique
15:48:25 [Tim]
Point to external documentation that explains/shows
15:49:02 [Tim]
15:49:14 [Tim]
Redundant with using accessibility conventions? No - if use accessibility features, get for free. If not, need to do the things in L1 SC6
15:49:27 [Tim]
kill as technique
15:49:39 [Tim]
People interpret this to mean that they have to use all accessibility features (e.g., accesskey, tabindex) that not necessarily the case
15:50:30 [Tim]
high priority for Guide Document
15:50:43 [Tim]
Document the user agent issue where accessibility features are not supported or supported inconsistently
15:51:36 [Tim]
kill as technique but discuss in other relevant techniques
15:52:22 [Zakim]
15:52:23 [Zakim]
15:52:24 [Zakim]
15:52:25 [Zakim]
15:52:27 [Zakim]
15:52:29 [Zakim]
15:52:31 [Zakim]
WAI_WCAG(techniques)10:00AM has ended
15:52:32 [Zakim]
Attendees were Don_Evans, Tim_Boland, Michael_Cooper, Christophe_Strobbe, Chris_Ridpath, Ben_Caldwell, Wendy, Rob_Haverty, Lisa_Seeman, Matt_May
15:52:44 [Michael]
rrsagent, generate minutes
15:52:44 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Michael
15:53:27 [leasa]
leasa has left #wai-wcag
15:54:37 [Michael]
action: ls send proposal to list about missing SC around visual pres of structure
15:55:16 [Michael]
action: michael updated harvesting documents with these prioritizations
15:55:20 [Michael]
rrsagent, generate minutes
15:55:20 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Michael
16:00:26 [Michael]
rrsagent, bye
16:00:26 [RRSAgent]
I see 2 open action items saved in :
16:00:26 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: ls send proposal to list about missing SC around visual pres of structure [1]
16:00:26 [RRSAgent]
recorded in
16:00:26 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: michael updated harvesting documents with these prioritizations [2]
16:00:26 [RRSAgent]
recorded in