IRC log of dawg on 2005-08-30

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:31:12 [RRSAgent]

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/08/30-dawg-irc

14:31:20 [Zakim]

+DanC

14:31:25 [Zakim]

-Eliast

14:31:28 [JanneS]

JanneS has joined #dawg

14:31:39 [Zakim]

+[IBMCambridge]

14:31:41 [DanC]

Regrets: SteveH, JosD, JeenB, DaveB

14:31:41 [EliasT]

Zakim, IBMCambridge is EliasT

14:31:41 [Zakim]

+EliasT; got it

14:31:54 [DanC]

Zakim, take up item 1

14:31:54 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "Convene, take roll, review records and agenda" taken up [from DanC]

14:31:57 [Zakim]

+??P16

14:31:59 [DanC]

Zakim, who's on the phone?

14:31:59 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Yoshio (muted), DanC, EliasT, ??P16

14:32:13 [HiroyukiS]

Zakim, ??P16 is HiroyukiS

14:32:13 [Zakim]

+HiroyukiS; got it

14:32:18 [Zakim]

+[IBMCambridge]

14:32:19 [LeeF]

Zakim, IBMCambridge is LeeF

14:32:19 [Zakim]

+LeeF; got it

14:32:25 [Zakim]

+??P18

14:32:38 [DanC]

Zakim, ??P18 is JanneS

14:32:38 [Zakim]

+JanneS; got it

14:33:11 [Zakim]

+Kendall_Clark

14:33:17 [DanC]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSep/0297.html

14:33:36 [DanC]

scribe: EliasT

14:33:42 [Zakim]

+??P21

14:33:45 [AndyS]

zakim, ?P21 is AndyS

14:33:45 [Zakim]

sorry, AndyS, I do not recognize a party named '?P21'

14:33:51 [DanC]

DanC has changed the topic to: RDF Data Access telcon 30Aug 1430Z. scribe: EliasT

14:33:51 [AndyS]

zakim, ??P21 is AndyS

14:33:51 [Zakim]

+AndyS; got it

14:34:22 [DanC]

-> http://www.w3.org/2005/08/16-dawg-minutes 16 Aug 2005

14:35:29 [Zakim]

+[MIT528]

14:35:42 [ericP]

zakim, MIT528 is ericP

14:35:42 [Zakim]

+ericP; got it

14:35:49 [DanC]

RESOLVED: to accept minutes of 16 Aug

14:36:13 [DanC]

Zakim, who's on the phone?

14:36:13 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Yoshio, DanC, EliasT, HiroyukiS, LeeF, JanneS, Kendall_Clark, AndyS, ericP

14:36:38 [DanC]

Regrets: SteveH, JosD, JeenB, DaveB

14:36:58 [AndyS]

(thanks Elias)

14:37:05 [EliasT]

:-)

14:37:14 [kendall]

I'm only available till about 11:45 my time (68 minutes from now)

14:37:30 [DanC]

roger, kendall

14:37:41 [EliasT]

Next meeting scheduled for Sept 6, 2005

14:37:45 [EliasT]

Kendall will be the scribe.

14:38:11 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

14:38:11 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "comment: Query forms should be resources, not operations" taken up [from DanC]

14:40:42 [EliasT]

done: Kendall.

14:40:48 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

14:40:48 [Zakim]

agendum 3. "comment: SPARQL Protocol: inconsistent parameter names" taken up [from DanC]

14:41:57 [EliasT]

KendallC, this is something we need to fix. It's a mistake on the protocol.

14:42:11 [EliasT]

KendallC, AndyS proposes it's query.

14:42:14 [kendall]

Proposed: to change "sparql-query" to "query"

14:42:30 [DanC]

editor is so advised.

14:42:50 [DanC]

(or... no advice to the contrary)

14:45:09 [EliasT]

KendallC: WSDL lets you redefine the parameter names using a new binding. If we don't allow that, we should expect havoc. We should say somewhere in the spec, you should these bindings if you want to implement a SPARQL service. Although, we have not talked about whether HTTP is the only concrete interface or whether SOAP is also required.

14:46:17 [EliasT]

DanC: I'll be happy with a note that says you can change the parameters in your own binding, but it will reduce interoperability.

14:47:26 [EliasT]

KendallC, link to email?

14:47:37 [DanC]

Subject: Re: agenda: RDF Data Access 30Aug

14:47:37 [DanC]

Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 12:57:31 -0400 (11:57 CDT)

14:47:46 [DanC]

[[

14:47:48 [DanC]

To be a compliant SPARQL Protocol service, a service MUST support the

14:47:48 [DanC]

SparqlQuery interface, and it MUST support either the HTTP bindings or the

14:47:48 [DanC]

SOAP bindings or both the HTTP and SOAP bindings as described in

14:47:48 [DanC]

<sparql-protocol-query.wsdl>. A SPARQL Protocol service MAY support other

14:47:48 [DanC]

interfaces as well.

14:47:49 [DanC]

]]

14:48:21 [EliasT]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSep/0298.html

14:48:22 [DanC]

Zakim, who's on the phone?

14:48:22 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Yoshio, DanC, EliasT, HiroyukiS, LeeF, JanneS, Kendall_Clark, AndyS, ericP

14:52:18 [kendall]

the term "SPARQL Protocol" already exists in the document...FWIW

14:55:30 [DanC]

(now I forgot what question I was going to ask... oh yeah... "service"...)

15:01:54 [DanC]

PROPOSED: that SPARQL services that export HTTP bindings must export the HTTP binding in this SPARQL protocol spec; likewise for SOAP

15:02:22 [DanC]

so RESOLVED. Action KC

15:02:39 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

15:02:47 [Zakim]

agendum 4. "toward protocol last call" taken up [from DanC]

15:02:55 [kendall]

i hate to burn so much time on minutiae, but thx all anyway...

15:04:24 [EliasT]

KendallC, the output serialization is too strict in WSDL 2.0. We might need to send an email to their list.

15:05:02 [EliasT]

KendallC: We would like WSDL 2.0 to allow us multiple output serialization formats for one binding.

15:06:14 [EliasT]

KendallC: We either return text or we split our operations to support multiple mime formats.

15:08:37 [EliasT]

ACTION: EliasT to draft test for WSDL 2.0 mime type restriciton in output serializatin.

15:09:01 [DanC]

options I see (a) ask WSDL WG to fix this limitation on returned mime type, wait for the fix (b) change our design to meet the constraint, (c) reconsider the requirement on WSDL

15:09:39 [DanC]

a 4ish b 0 c 0

15:10:25 [DanC]

(Andy seems to be exploring b...)

15:11:44 [DanC]

PROPOSED: to weaken return type to application/xml , and note that this is due to a limitation to WSDL that we hope gets relaxed

15:11:48 [DanC]

hmm

15:13:11 [EliasT]

AndyS: you can't have a web service that's officially a web service that returns non-XML data.

15:14:00 [DanC]

PROPOSED: to leave out the whttp:outputSerialization param, note the conflict with the current WSDL spec, and take the risk that we'll have to come back if they say no

15:18:05 [LeeF]

2.A.3

15:18:08 [EliasT]

ACTION: KendallC to add editorial note to protocol spec showing that our WSDL is not kosher and it depends on their final decision.

15:19:18 [DanC]

?who: the spec currently requires RDF/XML in 2.a.3

15:19:31 [LeeF]

LeeF

15:19:48 [kendall]

"equivalent serialization" language was there but removed because it's a bit loose

15:20:52 [DanC]

say "... an RDF graph[RDF concepts] serialized for example in RDF/XML"

15:21:19 [LeeF]

Kendall, do you happen to have a pointer to where the WSDL 2.0 draft(s) discuss outputSerialization?

15:22:40 [kendall]

Lee: it's in their Part Two spec, the HTTP adjuncts stuff... I think section 6.3ish

15:22:50 [kendall]

sad, but true, dan...

15:25:16 [AndyS]

Maybe going back to "equivalent serialization" is the best of the choices.

15:26:28 [LeeF]

If I'm reading http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/5/lc-issues/type_sort.html#LC304 correctly, the WSDL 2.0 folks haven't yet formally defined what can (and can't) be a "IANA media type token" for the outputSerialization parameter - I think we should make our value for this attribute: */* :)

15:26:28 [DanC]

PROPOSED: to relax the query-result type to allow "equivalent serialization" [salt to taste] and leave out the whttp:outputSerialization param, note the conflict with the current WSDL spec, and take the risk that we'll have to come back if they say no

15:27:00 [kendall]

LeeF: :>

15:27:50 [AndyS]

Prose would be fine

15:28:39 [DanC]

so RESOLVED.

15:29:02 [EliasT]

ACTION: KendallC, to relax the query-result type to allow "equivalent serialization" [salt to taste] and leave out the whttp:outputSerialization param, note the conflict with the current WSDL spec, and take the risk that we'll have to come back if they say no

15:29:16 [kendall]

yay!

15:31:22 [EliasT]

KendallC, regarding working with WSDL WG on moving style. This is about allowing inputSerialization to allow www-form-urlencoded for POST binding. However, WSDL spec says you can't use URI style if using form url-encoded.

15:31:27 [DanC]

request for ACTION ?who: assemble materials for a test for POST with application/x-www-urlencoded

15:32:05 [DanC]

already there in the spec. k. Very long SELECT query using POST binding

15:34:04 [DanC]

KC's ACTION on style continues.

15:34:29 [kendall]

Elias: k. very long thingie has an error, actually... the http request line should be: POST /sparql/ HTTP/1.1... FWIW

15:34:37 [DanC]

EricP's review http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSep/0304.html

15:36:32 [EliasT]

kendall, got it.

15:37:20 [kendall]

I was imagining I'm better at all of this, but it *hurts*...

15:38:04 [DanC]

KC intends to make utf-8 explicit in the coures of doing eric's comments

15:40:45 [kendall]

but of course DESCRIBE is under-spec'd, intentionally

15:42:17 [DanC]

ah... ericp notes the "Accept: application/sparql-results+xml" in d. ASK with simple RDF dataset and notes this suggests that the client is peeking into the query.

15:43:17 [Hiroyuki0]

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15:43:27 [DanC]

ACTION KC: make conneg explicit in c. CONSTRUCT with simple RDF dataset and take accept: out elsewhere

15:45:49 [JanneS]

I have to go for tonight.. hoping to get LC version out next week.

15:46:04 [Zakim]

-JanneS

15:46:10 [DanC]

Zakim, next agendum

15:46:10 [Zakim]

agendum 5. "Protocol testing" taken up [from DanC]

15:46:45 [DanC]

done... ish... DanC to extract and machine-check examples

15:46:58 [EliasT]

http://torrez.us/2005/08/25/proto-tests/data/select/manifest.ttl

15:48:18 [DanC]

[right?] ACTION EliasT: establish consistency between protocol examples and tests

15:51:08 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

15:51:08 [Zakim]

agendum 6. "a WSDL 1.1 description of the SPARQL protocol" taken up [from DanC]

15:51:16 [EliasT]

http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~swh/protocol-tests/data/construct/

15:51:41 [DanC]

ACTION: LeeF to draft WSDL 1.1 for SPARQL thingy with AndyS and Elias ETA 9 sep

15:51:51 [DanC]

ACTION: DanC to ask WSDL WG to review WSDL 1.1 and WSDL 2 SPARQL protocol stuff, once both are available

15:51:53 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

15:51:54 [Zakim]

agendum 6 was just opened, DanC

15:51:59 [DanC]

Zakim, close item 6

15:51:59 [Zakim]

agendum 6, a WSDL 1.1 description of the SPARQL protocol, closed

15:52:00 [Zakim]

I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

15:52:01 [Zakim]

7. BASE IRI resolution comment [from DanC]

15:52:02 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

15:52:02 [Zakim]

agendum 7. "BASE IRI resolution comment" taken up [from DanC]

15:52:46 [kendall]

zakim, mute me

15:52:46 [Zakim]

Kendall_Clark should now be muted

15:55:11 [DanC]

Elias is hereby appointed protocol-test czar/maintainer, with ericp's help

15:55:28 [DanC]

ACTION: ericP to send [OK?] message to Bjoern.

15:55:43 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

15:55:43 [Zakim]

agendum 8. "issues#queryMimeType" taken up [from DanC]

15:56:59 [DanC]

PROPOSED: that 1.474 of http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/ addresses issues#queryMimeType

15:57:04 [AndyS]

$Revision: 1.475 $ of $Date: 2005/08/30 13:55:17 $

15:57:24 [DanC]

Zakim, who's on the call?

15:57:24 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Yoshio, DanC, EliasT, HiroyukiS, LeeF, Kendall_Clark (muted), AndyS, ericP

15:58:41 [DanC]

so RESOLVED.

15:59:34 [DanC]

ACTION EricP: change contact email to dawg-comments and call for review in IETF

15:59:50 [DanC]

ACTION EricP: respond to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2004Jul/0001.html

15:59:59 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

16:00:00 [Zakim]

agendum 9. "grammar update" taken up [from DanC]

16:00:49 [DanC]

ADJOURN.

16:01:16 [Zakim]

-Kendall_Clark

16:01:17 [DanC]

RRSAgent, make logs world-access

16:01:23 [Zakim]

-Yoshio

16:01:23 [DanC]

RRSAgent, please draft minutes

16:01:23 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/08/30-dawg-minutes.html DanC

16:01:35 [Zakim]

-HiroyukiS

16:02:14 [Zakim]

-EliasT

16:02:15 [Zakim]

-DanC

16:02:21 [Zakim]

-LeeF

16:02:24 [DanC]

Chair: DanC

16:02:31 [DanC]

Meeting: RDF Data Access

16:02:40 [DanC]

RRSAgent, please draft minutes

16:02:40 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/08/30-dawg-minutes.html DanC

16:02:51 [AndyS]

zakim, who is on the phone?

16:02:51 [Zakim]

On the phone I see AndyS, ericP

16:02:53 [DanC]

there. that was 2 easy fixes, EliasT

16:02:59 [DanC]

all yours now

16:05:41 [ericP]

'<' [^<>\u00-\u20]* '>'

16:05:57 [ericP]

'<' [^<>\#00-\#20]* '>'

16:06:20 [AndyS]

"<" (~[">","<","\u0000"-"\u0020"])* ">"

16:07:19 [Yoshio]

Yoshio has left #dawg

16:23:20 [Zakim]

-ericP

16:23:21 [Zakim]

-AndyS

16:23:21 [Zakim]

SW_DAWG()10:30AM has ended

16:23:22 [Zakim]

Attendees were Kendall_Clark, Yoshio, Eliast, DanC, HiroyukiS, LeeF, JanneS, AndyS, ericP

16:50:37 [EliasT]

Just got back from lunch.

16:50:59 [EliasT]

Which 2 easy fixes you refer to DanC?

16:51:13 [DanC]

just Meeting: and Chair:

16:53:31 [EliasT]

k. cool.

16:53:43 [EliasT]

EliasT has left #dawg

16:59:02 [ericP]

xs:anyURI includes IRIs

16:59:26 [ericP]

Liam: to make i18n extra-happy, we could say that in SPARQL Query

18:30:27 [Zakim]

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