19:49:14 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
19:49:14 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/08/25-wai-wcag-irc
19:49:17 <wendy> RRSAgent, make log world
19:50:06 <wendy> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2005JulSep/0537.html
19:50:14 <wendy> Meeting: WCAG WG weekly telecon
19:50:21 <wendy> agenda+ Techniques Task Force report
19:50:38 <wendy> agenda+ Guideline 3.2 proposals http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/consistent-behavior0822/results
19:51:07 <wendy> agenda+ Guideline 1.4 survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/contrast20050608/results
19:51:36 <wendy> agenda+ Updated WCAG 1.0-WCAG 2.0 mapping http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2005JulSep/att-0499/WAI_GL_2005_06_30-mapping.html
19:52:04 <wendy> agenda+ Toward our next draft: Teams and Templates http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2005JulSep/att-0658/WCAG_Guidelines_and_Support_DocumentsV2.doc
19:53:04 <Michael> Michael has joined #wai-wcag
19:53:53 <Yvette> Yvette has joined #wai-wcag
19:55:06 <wendy> regrets: Roberto Ellero, Roberto Scano, Roberto Castaldo
19:55:56 <wendy> yvette? could you scribe for the 1st hour today?
19:56:15 <wendy> will also ask loretta (http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/scribes.html)
19:56:18 <ben_> ben_ has joined #wai-wcag
19:56:23 <wendy> (loretta for 2nd 1/2)
19:57:38 <Yvette> sorry
19:57:43 <Christophe> Christophe has joined #wai-wcag
19:58:03 <wendy> ok. no worries. we'll find someone.
19:58:13 <Yvette> tx
19:58:45 <wendy> zakim, this will be wcag
19:58:45 <Zakim> ok, wendy, I see WAI_WCAG()4:00PM already started
19:59:09 <Makoto> Makoto has joined #wai-wcag
19:59:41 <jslatinOFHNetIRC> jslatinOFHNetIRC has joined #wai-wcag
19:59:42 <Zakim> +Michael_Cooper
19:59:59 <jslatinOFHNetIRC> Will call in in a second...
20:00:03 <wendy> zakim, who's on the phone?
20:00:03 <Zakim> On the phone I see [Microsoft], Michael_Cooper
20:00:16 <Zakim> +Yvette_Hoitink
20:00:20 <Zakim> +??P4
20:00:41 <bengt> zakim, ??P4 is Bengt_Farre
20:00:41 <Zakim> +Bengt_Farre; got it
20:00:43 <Michael> zakim, Microsoft is Rob_Haverty
20:00:43 <Zakim> +Rob_Haverty; got it
20:00:53 <Yvette> zakim, mute me
20:00:53 <Zakim> Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
20:00:59 <Zakim> +??P3
20:01:04 <ben_> zakim, ??P3 is Ben
20:01:04 <Zakim> +Ben; got it
20:01:23 <Zakim> +Christophe_Strobbe
20:01:32 <Zakim> +John_Slatin
20:01:33 <Zakim> +Wendy
20:02:05 <Zakim> +Sofia_Celic
20:02:22 <Zakim> +??P8
20:02:26 <Zakim> +Loretta_Guarino_Reid
20:02:33 <Makoto> zakim, ??P8 is Makoto
20:02:33 <Zakim> +Makoto; got it
20:02:34 <Yvette> zakim, unmute me
20:02:34 <Zakim> Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted
20:02:40 <ben_> zakim, I am Ben
20:02:40 <Zakim> ok, ben_, I now associate you with Ben
20:02:42 <Zakim> +??P10
20:02:57 <wendy> zakim, ??P10 is Gian_Sampson-Wild
20:02:57 <Zakim> +Gian_Sampson-Wild; got it
20:03:41 <wendy> scribe: Christophe
20:04:03 <Christophe> zakim, mute me
20:04:03 <Zakim> Christophe_Strobbe should now be muted
20:04:06 <Yvette> zakim, mute me
20:04:06 <Zakim> Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
20:04:34 <Becky> Becky has joined #wai-wcag
20:04:34 <Michael> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2005JulSep/0537.html
20:04:49 <Zakim> +Becky_Gibson
20:04:54 <Yvette> zakim, unmute me
20:04:54 <Zakim> Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted
20:04:57 <Christophe> zakim, you can't spell
20:04:57 <Zakim> I don't understand 'you can't spell', Christophe
20:05:26 <Yvette> zakim, women
20:05:26 <Zakim> I don't understand 'women', Yvette
20:06:10 <Yvette> zakim, mute me
20:06:10 <Zakim> Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
20:06:19 <Yvette> zakim, who's on the phone?
20:06:19 <Zakim> On the phone I see Rob_Haverty, Michael_Cooper, Yvette_Hoitink (muted), Bengt_Farre, Ben, Christophe_Strobbe (muted), John_Slatin, Wendy, Sofia_Celic, Makoto, Loretta_Guarino_Reid,
20:06:19 <wendy> zakim, who's here?
20:06:22 <Zakim> ... Gian_Sampson-Wild, Becky_Gibson
20:06:24 <Zakim> On the phone I see Rob_Haverty, Michael_Cooper, Yvette_Hoitink (muted), Bengt_Farre, Ben, Christophe_Strobbe (muted), John_Slatin, Wendy, Sofia_Celic, Makoto, Loretta_Guarino_Reid,
20:06:28 <Zakim> ... Gian_Sampson-Wild, Becky_Gibson
20:06:29 <Zakim> On IRC I see Becky, jslatinOFHNetIRC, Makoto, Christophe, ben, Yvette, Michael, RRSAgent, Zakim, bengt, wendy
20:06:43 <Zakim> +Andi_Snow_Weaver
20:07:50 <Andi> Andi has joined #wai-wcag
20:08:03 <wendy> zakim, agenda?
20:08:03 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
20:08:04 <Zakim> 1. Techniques Task Force report [from wendy]
20:08:05 <Zakim> 2. Guideline 3.2 proposals http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/consistent-behavior0822/results [from wendy]
20:08:08 <Zakim> 3. Guideline 1.4 survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/contrast20050608/results [from wendy]
20:08:10 <Zakim> 4. Updated WCAG 1.0-WCAG 2.0 mapping http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2005JulSep/att-0499/WAI_GL_2005_06_30-mapping.html [from wendy]
20:08:14 <Zakim> 5. Toward our next draft: Teams and Templates http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2005JulSep/att-0658/WCAG_Guidelines_and_Support_DocumentsV2.doc [from wendy]
20:09:05 <wendy> zakim, the agenda order is 1, 4, 2, 3, 5
20:09:05 <Zakim> ok, wendy
20:09:11 <wendy> zakim, take up item 1
20:09:11 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Techniques Task Force report" taken up [from wendy]
20:10:11 <Christophe> prioritized techniques harvested on earlier Thursday calls: high, medium, low
20:10:41 <Christophe> Script techniques: later
20:11:35 <Christophe> Results of prioritisation process: divide up techniques to be written by TTF members
20:11:50 <wendy> zakim, next item
20:11:50 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Updated WCAG 1.0-WCAG 2.0 mapping http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2005JulSep/att-0499/WAI_GL_2005_06_30-mapping.html" taken up [from wendy]
20:12:27 <Christophe> Version with insertions and deletions sent to list
20:12:54 <Christophe> Discussing: publish mapping as a working draft?
20:13:24 <Christophe> Comment: most notes could be deleted
20:14:56 <Christophe> Resolution: publish the updated mapping - with notes deleted - as a working draft
20:15:07 <Zakim> +??P13
20:15:26 <Zakim> +Matt_May
20:16:00 <wendy> zakim, ??P13 is Kerstin_Goldsmith
20:16:00 <Zakim> +Kerstin_Goldsmith; got it
20:16:01 <Kesh> Kesh has joined #wai-wcag
20:16:37 <wendy> action: christophe clean up mapping (delete notes, clean up deletions/insertion styles), etc.
20:17:37 <Christophe> Discussing: unresolved action item 
20:18:55 <wendy> zakim, next item
20:18:55 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Guideline 3.2 proposals http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/consistent-behavior0822/results" taken up [from wendy]
20:19:39 <Christophe> Discussing: remove example 2 from Guideline 3.2?
20:20:04 <Christophe> No support for keeping the example
20:20:58 <Christophe> resolution: delete example 5 from GL 3.2
20:21:01 <Christophe> action: Christophe and Becky work on examples to replace the current one
20:21:18 <wendy> s/example 5/example 2
20:21:49 <Christophe> Discussing: remove example 3 from Guideline 3.2?
20:21:50 <Yvette> zakim, unmute me
20:21:50 <Zakim> Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted
20:21:51 <Yvette> q+
20:22:13 <wendy> ack y
20:23:45 <ben> RRSAgent, generate minutes
20:23:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/08/25-wai-wcag-minutes.html ben
20:23:57 <Yvette> zakim, mute me
20:23:57 <Zakim> Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
20:24:08 <Christophe> resolution: remove example 3 from Guideline 3.2
20:24:11 <ben> rrsagent, make log world
20:24:25 <Christophe> action: Wendy will send proposals for additional examples to the list
20:24:58 <Christophe> Discussing: include suggestion to "use headers consistently" as a technique for Guideline 3.2 Level 2 SC 4
20:28:11 <Christophe> resolution: treat "use headers consistently" as a technique (instead of success criterion)
20:28:49 <Christophe> Discussing: mapping of the suggested technique
20:33:28 <Christophe> resolution: reject proposed success criterion/technique
20:33:59 <wendy> (supercedes previous resolution to treat "user headers consistently" as a technique. i.e., will do nothing with it).
20:34:29 <Christophe> Discussing: do not include "use templates for consistent presentation of sections or whole site"
20:36:23 <Christophe> No one in favour of treating this as a success criterion.
20:37:20 <Christophe> resolution: create a general technique about using templates for consistent presentation of sections of whole site
20:37:33 <Christophe> Discussing: mapping of this suggested technique
20:38:11 <Christophe> options: GL 3.1 or 3.2
20:38:40 <wendy> propose 3.2 L2 sc1
20:39:05 <Christophe> concern: technique not testable
20:39:12 <Yvette> q+
20:39:37 <wendy> ack gian
20:39:49 <Yvette> zakim, unmute me
20:39:49 <Zakim> Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted
20:39:51 <wendy> ack yvette
20:41:35 <Christophe> resolution: map technique for templates as advistory technique for GL  3.2 L2 SC1
20:41:36 <Yvette> zakim, mute me
20:41:36 <Zakim> Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
20:41:48 <Yvette> q+
20:42:12 <Christophe> Discussing: do not include "controls that look or sound the same should be designed to act the same"
20:42:13 <Yvette> q-
20:44:03 <Christophe> action: Michael, Gian and Christophe work on proposal regarding "controls that look or sound the same should be designed to act the same"
20:44:07 <wendy> ack gian
20:44:26 <Christophe> comment: this was also discussed at Brussels F2F
20:44:34 <Yvette> q+
20:44:41 <Christophe> example: traffic lights
20:44:49 <wendy> q+ to suggest andi joins action item
20:44:51 <Yvette> zakim, unmute me
20:44:51 <Zakim> Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted
20:45:30 <wendy> ack yvette
20:45:43 <Christophe> example: check mark in application
20:45:50 <wendy> ack wendy
20:45:52 <Zakim> wendy, you wanted to suggest andi joins action item
20:45:57 <Christophe> example: 'next page'
20:46:45 <Yvette> zakim, mute me
20:46:45 <Zakim> Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
20:47:02 <Christophe> action: Andi look up example discussed during Brussels F2F
20:47:06 <wendy> action 4 =  Michael, Gian and Christophe work on proposal regarding "controls that look or sound the same should be designed to act the same"
20:47:19 <wendy> action: Michael, Gian, Yvette and Christophe work on proposal regarding "controls that look or sound the same should be designed to act the same"
20:47:32 <wendy> drop action 6
20:47:35 <wendy> RRSAgent, drop action 6
20:47:45 <wendy> action 4 =  Yvette, Michael, Gian and Christophe work on proposal regarding "controls that look or sound the same should be designed to act the same"
20:48:05 <Christophe> Discussing: do not include "conventions likely to be familiar to the user should be followed"
20:48:42 <Yvette> q+
20:48:51 <wendy> ack y
20:49:07 <Christophe> Not much support for it, even as advisory item
20:50:54 <Christophe> (Comment: something on following conventions could be included in advisory information)
20:51:33 <Christophe> resolution: reject the proposal "conventions likely to be familiar to the user should be followed"
20:52:08 <Christophe> Discussing: "unusual user interface features or behaviors that are likely to confuse the first-time user should be described to the user before they are encountered"
20:52:47 <Yvette> q+
20:52:48 <Christophe> Some people in favor of a technique
20:53:01 <mcmay> mcmay has joined #wai-wcag
20:53:05 <wendy> ack y
20:53:30 <Christophe> Technique for content-relevant assistance?
20:54:04 <Yvette> zakim, mute me
20:54:04 <Zakim> Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
20:54:05 <wendy> action: Wendy, Ben, Gian, Roberto Castaldo, yvette to propose technique for "unusual user interface features or behaviors that are likely to confuse the first-time user should be described to the user before they are encountered"
20:54:26 <Christophe> Discussing:  "allow the user to select different page layout templates for presentation of pages. (e.g. 3 column, linear, adding extra orientation or navigation elements, etc.)"
20:54:52 <Christophe> Some people in favor of a technique
20:55:03 <Yvette> zakim, unmute me
20:55:03 <Zakim> Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted
20:55:30 <Becky> q+
20:56:00 <wendy> ack loretta
20:56:07 <wendy> ack becky
20:56:25 <Andi> q+
20:56:29 <Yvette> zakim, mute me
20:56:29 <Zakim> Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
20:56:40 <wendy> q+ to say general?
20:56:42 <Michael> q+
20:56:45 <wendy> ack andi
20:57:00 <Christophe> Comment: article on 'A List Apart' - specific to HTML - is something more general possible?
20:58:47 <Michael> zakim, unmute me
20:58:47 <Zakim> Michael_Cooper should no longer be muted
20:59:20 <wendy> Action: Yvette, Ben, Christophe, Gian, Roberto Castaldo, Becky, Joe to propose a technique and propose mapping to another SC (3.2 doesn't seem best fit)
20:59:23 <Yvette> zakim, mute me
20:59:23 <Zakim> Yvette_Hoitink was already muted, Yvette
20:59:26 <Michael> q-
20:59:36 <wendy> q-
21:00:01 <Christophe> Discussing: Close issue 844?
21:01:36 <wendy> action 8 = becky and gian to propose a technique for "allow user to select templates..." and propose mapping to another SC (3.2 doesn't seem best fit)
21:02:11 <Christophe> resolution: close issue 844 (overtaken by events)
21:02:38 <Christophe> Discussing: Replace the existing benefits with the following 3 proposals?
21:03:33 <Andi> scribe: Andi
21:04:13 <Zakim> -Christophe_Strobbe
21:04:16 <Christophe> Christophe has left #wai-wcag
21:04:21 <Yvette> zakim, unmute me
21:04:21 <Zakim> Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted
21:04:56 <wendy> action: john contact joe about follow up for "Replace the existing benefits" comments.
21:06:08 <Andi> resolution: adopt proposed wording and insert "or have low vision" after "people who are blind"
21:06:37 <Andi> Discussing proposal for example 1
21:07:22 <Yvette> zakim, mute me
21:07:22 <Zakim> Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
21:09:58 <Yvette> zakim, unmute me
21:09:58 <Zakim> Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted
21:10:44 <Andi> resolution: remove example 1
21:11:00 <Yvette> zakim, unmute me
21:11:00 <Zakim> Yvette_Hoitink was not muted, Yvette
21:13:00 <Andi> Discussing proposal on all Web sites using the same UI paradign
21:13:15 <Andi> resolution: reject proposal on all Web site using the same UI paradigm
21:14:06 <Andi> resolution: reject proposal on standards for different types of content
21:14:17 <Yvette> zakim, unmute me
21:14:17 <Zakim> Yvette_Hoitink was not muted, Yvette
21:15:20 <Yvette> zakim, mute me
21:15:20 <Zakim> Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
21:15:34 <Andi> resolution: reject proposal to include a Close button on all pop-up windows
21:15:47 <wendy> zakim, next item
21:15:47 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Guideline 1.4 survey http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/contrast20050608/results" taken up [from wendy]
21:18:22 <Andi> discussing issue 1345
21:18:36 <Yvette> zakim, unmute me
21:18:36 <Zakim> Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted
21:19:48 <ben> q+ to say, "this seems more like a UA issue"
21:19:53 <wendy> q+
21:20:06 <Andi> example of accessibility issue with unperceivable text: light green links on bright blue background are not readable.
21:20:14 <wendy> ack b
21:20:14 <Zakim> Ben, you wanted to say, "this seems more like a UA issue"
21:20:38 <Michael> q+
21:20:52 <wendy> http://trace.wisc.edu/bugzilla_wcag/show_bug.cgi?id=892
21:22:09 <Yvette> zakim, mute me
21:22:09 <Zakim> Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
21:22:53 <Andi> resolution: close issue 1345
21:23:10 <Zakim> +??P7
21:23:26 <gregg> gregg has joined #wai-wcag
21:24:46 <Michael> q-
21:25:45 <Andi> resolution: close issue 1373 because the note has been deleted
21:26:17 <wendy> q-
21:26:25 <Andi> resolution: accept straw poll for all other GL 1.4 issues
21:26:38 <wendy> zakim, next item
21:26:38 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Toward our next draft: Teams and Templates http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2005JulSep/att-0658/WCAG_Guidelines_and_Support_DocumentsV2.doc" taken up
21:26:41 <Zakim> ... [from wendy]
21:27:40 <Andi> discussing Gregg's proposal for document templates
21:31:55 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
21:38:38 <Yvette> q+
21:38:46 <Yvette> zakim, unmute me
21:38:46 <Zakim> Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted
21:43:22 <ben> ack yve
21:44:24 <Yvette> zakim, mute me
21:44:24 <Zakim> Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
21:49:05 <Andi> resolution: in favor atomic organization of the information rather than huge documents
21:50:56 <Zakim> -Rob_Haverty
21:54:51 <Yvette> zakim, unmute me
21:54:51 <Zakim> Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted
21:55:25 <Yvette> zakim, mute me
21:55:25 <Zakim> Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
22:03:08 <Kesh> * where is this project plan?
22:03:36 <wendy> not publicly available yet
22:04:38 <Yvette> zakim, unmute me
22:04:38 <Zakim> Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted
22:06:19 <Yvette> zakim, mute me
22:06:19 <Zakim> Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
22:06:44 <Kesh> Kesh has left #wai-wcag
22:07:47 <Zakim> -Kerstin_Goldsmith
22:10:27 <Zakim> -Wendy
22:11:43 <Zakim> -Bengt_Farre
22:11:45 <Yvette> bye all
22:11:46 <Zakim> -Matt_May
22:11:47 <Zakim> -Sofia_Celic
22:11:47 <Zakim> -John_Slatin
22:11:48 <Zakim> -Ben
22:11:49 <Zakim> -Andi_Snow_Weaver
22:11:49 <ben> ben has left #wai-wcag
22:11:50 <Zakim> -Becky_Gibson
22:11:50 <Zakim> -Loretta_Guarino_Reid
22:11:52 <Zakim> -Yvette_Hoitink
22:11:53 <Zakim> -Gian_Sampson-Wild
22:11:55 <Zakim> -??P7
22:13:26 <wendy> zakim, who's on the phone?
22:13:26 <Zakim> On the phone I see Makoto
22:13:30 <wendy> zakim, drop makoto
22:13:30 <Zakim> Makoto is being disconnected
22:13:31 <Zakim> WAI_WCAG()4:00PM has ended
22:13:32 <Zakim> Attendees were Michael_Cooper, Yvette_Hoitink, Bengt_Farre, Rob_Haverty, Ben, Christophe_Strobbe, John_Slatin, Wendy, Sofia_Celic, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Makoto, Gian_Sampson-Wild,
22:13:34 <Zakim> ... Becky_Gibson, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Matt_May, Kerstin_Goldsmith
22:13:49 <wendy> RRSAgent, generate minutes
22:13:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/08/25-wai-wcag-minutes.html wendy
22:17:46 <wendy> zakim, bye
22:17:46 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wai-wcag
22:17:51 <wendy> RRSAgent, bye
22:17:51 <RRSAgent> I see 8 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2005/08/25-wai-wcag-actions.rdf :
22:17:51 <RRSAgent> ACTION: christophe clean up mapping (delete notes, clean up deletions/insertion styles), etc. [1]
22:17:51 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/08/25-wai-wcag-irc#T20-16-37
22:17:51 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Christophe and Becky work on examples to replace the current one [2]
22:17:51 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/08/25-wai-wcag-irc#T20-21-01
22:17:51 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Wendy will send proposals for additional examples to the list [3]
22:17:51 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/08/25-wai-wcag-irc#T20-24-25
22:17:51 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Yvette, Michael, Gian and Christophe work on proposal regarding "controls that look or sound the same should be designed to act the same" [4]
22:17:51 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/08/25-wai-wcag-irc#T20-44-03
22:17:51 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Andi look up example discussed during Brussels F2F [5]
22:17:51 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/08/25-wai-wcag-irc#T20-47-02
22:17:51 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Wendy, Ben, Gian, Roberto Castaldo, yvette to propose technique for "unusual user interface features or behaviors that are likely to confuse the first-time user should be described to the user before they are encountered" [7]
22:17:51 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/08/25-wai-wcag-irc#T20-54-05
22:17:51 <RRSAgent> ACTION: becky and gian to propose a technique for "allow user to select templates..." and propose mapping to another SC (3.2 doesn't seem best fit) [8]
22:17:51 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/08/25-wai-wcag-irc#T20-59-20
22:17:51 <RRSAgent> ACTION: john contact joe about follow up for "Replace the existing benefits" comments. [9]
22:17:51 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/08/25-wai-wcag-irc#T21-04-56