IRC log of wai-wcag on 2005-08-24

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:01:05 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
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logging to
14:01:09 [wendy]
RRSAgent, make log world
14:01:21 [wendy]
Meeting: Techniques Task Force of WCAG WG telecon
14:01:25 [wendy]
Chair: Michael
14:01:46 [wendy]
scribe - someone from:
14:02:13 [Zakim]
14:02:20 [Zakim]
14:02:35 [wendy]
zakim, drop wendy
14:02:35 [Zakim]
Wendy is being disconnected
14:02:36 [Zakim]
14:02:53 [Zakim]
14:03:23 [wendy]
zakim, who's muted?
14:03:23 [Zakim]
I see no one muted
14:03:45 [Michael]
14:04:21 [Zakim]
14:04:27 [ben]
zakim, ??P14 is Ben
14:04:27 [Zakim]
+Ben; got it
14:05:18 [Becky]
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14:05:33 [Zakim]
14:07:13 [Zakim]
14:07:25 [David_MacDonald_]
14:07:41 [Michael]
zakim, Steve is Lisa_Seeman
14:07:41 [Zakim]
sorry, Michael, I do not recognize a party named 'Steve'
14:07:55 [leasa]
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14:12:12 [Zakim]
14:13:07 [Zakim]
14:13:31 [Michael]
zakim, IPCaller is David_MacDonald
14:13:31 [Zakim]
+David_MacDonald; got it
14:17:19 [DonFEvans]
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14:17:27 [David_MacDonald_]
mc: html techniques speak up if its important no worry of mapping
14:17:44 [wendy]
scribe: DonFEvans
14:17:51 [DonFEvans]
zakim, i am don
14:17:51 [Zakim]
ok, DonFEvans, I now associate you with Don_Evans
14:18:22 [Michael]
scribe: DonFEvans
14:18:36 [DonFEvans]
chair: Michael
14:19:05 [ben]
14:19:17 [Michael]
topic: Prioritize techniques harvest
14:19:28 [wendy]
Link to a sequence of pages that provide function - not high priority
14:22:34 [DonFEvans]
Text labels above and below the sensory content - medium priority.
14:23:36 [DonFEvans]
Consider no-script element with no content - not a priority
14:25:00 [DonFEvans]
Link to stable site that provides description of different options for real time captioning - move to general - medium priority.
14:25:21 [DonFEvans]
Emphasis element and coloring rather than just using span with color - high priority.
14:25:50 [DonFEvans]
(Similar to L1) - part of previous one.
14:27:22 [DonFEvans]
Tabindex? May be covered by 2.4 - low priority note: doesnt apply to this success criteria.
14:28:22 [DonFEvans]
bgsound, autoplay - High Priority around the practice.
14:29:57 [DonFEvans]
Using foreground and background colors - high priority to work on.
14:31:26 [DonFEvans]
onclick as mechanism to get focus - low priority or drop.
14:32:13 [DonFEvans]
tabindex, though user agent issues - High priority.
14:33:01 [DonFEvans]
Anchors on image buttons - high priority.
14:33:48 [DonFEvans]
Redundant links for server-side image maps - low priority. Move into appendix
14:35:04 [DonFEvans]
Use of <map> to allow keyboard navigation - Not sure what techinque is - is that a way of saying use client image maps? - If so, we already have a techinque for this. - remove technique.
14:36:19 [DonFEvans]
Meta-refresh technique - we already have technique.
14:37:44 [DonFEvans]
Foreground/background issues - Should be general technique - Move to general - high priority as a general technique.
14:39:40 [DonFEvans]
<link> and <a> - low priority. take the existing ones.
14:40:11 [DonFEvans]
Header elements - move to 1.3, it's already there.
14:40:38 [DonFEvans]
Lists and groups of links - high priority.
14:42:34 [DonFEvans]
onclick event handlers that take you to another page - high priority. Mark as possible script as well for cross reference.
14:43:33 [DonFEvans]
Autosubmit combo boxes - should be included - high priority.
14:43:42 [DonFEvans]
and it relates to scripts
14:44:07 [DonFEvans]
Table of contents - general technique - medium priority at best maybe low.
14:45:48 [DonFEvans]
Revise HTML 9.7 to be more general? - low priority.
14:46:01 [DonFEvans]
Ideally, using <div> would help - low priority.
14:46:38 [DonFEvans]
Headers - repeated under passing blocks of content - low priority.
14:46:54 [DonFEvans]
Tables - low priority. really low?
14:47:09 [DonFEvans]
note: not encouraged
14:48:18 [DonFEvans]
Use spacer gif in link text so that it is not visible where alt for spacer gif gives additional clarification - becky: put it pretty low. Ben: we might want to talk about it. Maybe give it a medium priority.
14:50:11 [DonFEvans]
there is some discussion on this, we may want to move this to high priority. Becky: We may want to propose this as a new techinque.
14:50:55 [DonFEvans]
discuss title vs alt as a new techinque - high priority.
14:51:02 [DonFEvans]
still medium on spacer gif.
14:52:54 [DonFEvans]
For image maps, area element should exist in source code in reasonable order - David: is reasonable measurable? This may be a useful thing, but would be at mediom at best.
14:54:15 [DonFEvans]
HTML forms, if multiple submit buttons, be sure the first one is the one you want to be default - becky: Medium to high priority. Not sure how to write the technique.
14:54:20 [DonFEvans]
call it medium
14:55:14 [DonFEvans]
Use of <link> element - existing
14:56:52 [DonFEvans]
Text directionality - High priority
14:57:43 [DonFEvans]
Use of meta tag with content-language - not lang attr - don't know if supported - Michael proposes medium - it needs investigation.
14:59:00 [DonFEvans]
What to do if specify more than one language in header? - low priority.
15:00:40 [DonFEvans]
<link rel="glossary"> - Medium Priority
15:02:04 [DonFEvans]
Definition lists - kill.
15:02:51 [DonFEvans]
Need an alternative to "target" since not allowed in strict HTML - high priority
15:04:31 [DonFEvans]
Need an alternative to "target" since not allowed in strict HTML - High Priority. The violation of this is happening more and more. It is going to be a more of an issue with Ajax.
15:05:32 [DonFEvans]
On leaving a data field - Kinda High Priority.
15:05:59 [DonFEvans]
two techniques, more script then html and it's hight
15:06:31 [DonFEvans]
Use links to cause page to refresh instead of automatic refresh - Medium
15:07:20 [DonFEvans]
noframes, noscript - under 4.2 providing fall backs if outside your base line - David: high priority if not in base line. We do have techniques.
15:09:54 [DonFEvans]
Fallback mechanism for applets (if applet not in baseline) need alternative mechanism for functionality - sounds like a general technique - this is saying you need functional fallback. Michael: this is hight priority. Becky: do you need a link to another page? It does effect the success of the base line. High Priority. Not sure where it goes, we do need to say something. David says maybe in HTML.
15:10:52 [DonFEvans]
Label element for most controls, alt for image input, value for most buttons, text for button element - Existing may need to add one or two things.
15:11:33 [DonFEvans]
"Creating Invisible labels for form elements" is mapped here. Should remap to L1SC4 - in css - controversial - existing in css
15:12:04 [David_MacDonald_]
I can hear good
15:12:28 [DonFEvans]
scribe: David_MacDonald
15:13:06 [wendy]
thanks for scribing don!
15:14:38 [David_MacDonald_]
Using images as list item bullets (removed?) (1.1 L1 SC4) - should be in HTML to direct to css - medium
15:15:52 [David_MacDonald_]
Background images are being used freq now for decorative images (1.1 L1 SC4) - high with a note telling dif btwn decorative and non decorative
15:17:43 [David_MacDonald_]
Use CSS for non-essential background audio (1.1 L1 SC4) - medium
15:18:32 [David_MacDonald_]
# Positioning, styling (1.3 L1 SC1) - existing - low
15:19:37 [David_MacDonald_]
# Not using CSS as the only way to indicate a blockquote (1.3 L2 SC1) - kill!!!!!
15:19:54 [David_MacDonald_]
covered in html
15:21:07 [David_MacDonald_]
Don't put stuff out of sequence (1.3 L3 SC1) - medium - shawn has interesting input
15:21:32 [David_MacDonald_]
maybe a high priority
15:22:52 [David_MacDonald_]
bob eastonm - get him to put it up
15:23:08 [David_MacDonald_]
s/eastonm easton
15:23:33 [wendy]
put it up - encourage people to provide solutions
15:24:38 [Zakim]
15:24:52 [David_MacDonald_]
For background images and colors (1.4 L1 SC1) - layered divs - medium
15:25:12 [David_MacDonald_]
Layered divs (1.4 L1 SC1) - high
15:25:37 [David_MacDonald_]
Using foreground and background colors (1.4 L3 SC1) - medium
15:26:01 [David_MacDonald_]
its about what code you use to make colors like bg transparent etc
15:26:21 [Zakim]
15:26:24 [wendy]
15:29:04 [David_MacDonald_]
Switch between using animated vs. Static images (2.2 L2 SC1) - kill
15:29:28 [David_MacDonald_]
wc: maybe Yvette has a technique
15:30:57 [David_MacDonald_]
wc: if so let her submit, she may be in the group for that, if so she's welcome to do it
15:31:24 [David_MacDonald_]
# Foreground/background issues (2.3 L3 SC1) - kill for css
15:33:55 [David_MacDonald_]
Allow keyboard users to view skip links (2.4 L2 SC2) - wendy says wai site blends in that area but does not hide it, might be a technique - high
15:34:49 [David_MacDonald_]
# Negative technique around illogical HTML source order corrected by CSS (2.4 L3 SC1) - kill
15:35:39 [David_MacDonald_]
Make sure people notice the text summary by using diff. Presentation style (3.1 L3 SC5) - low
15:37:19 [David_MacDonald_]
CSS inherit w/inherit property children will accept computed value of parent (3.2 L1 SC1) - medium - if you do it things will be more consistency
15:39:07 [David_MacDonald_]
# CSS about indenting text. Not properly mapped. (3.2 L2 SC1) - high
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15:41:21 [Zakim]
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WAI_WCAG(techniques)10:00AM has ended
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Attendees were Matt_May, Michael_Cooper, Wendy, Christophe_Strobbe, Chris_Ridpath, Ben, Becky_Gibson, Steve, Don_Evans, David_MacDonald
15:41:26 [wendy]
RRSAgent, generate minutes
15:41:26 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate wendy
15:42:00 [wendy]
Present: Matt_May, Michael_Cooper, Wendy Chisholm, Christophe_Strobbe, Chris_Ridpath, Ben Caldwell, Becky_Gibson, Lisa Seeman, Don_Evans, David_MacDonald
15:42:03 [wendy]
RRSAgent, generate minutes
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I have made the request to generate wendy
15:42:58 [wendy]
zakim, bye
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15:43:01 [wendy]
RRSAgent, bye
15:43:01 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items