IRC log of wai-wcag on 2005-08-24

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:01:05 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/08/24-wai-wcag-irc

14:01:09 [wendy]

RRSAgent, make log world

14:01:21 [wendy]

Meeting: Techniques Task Force of WCAG WG telecon

14:01:25 [wendy]

Chair: Michael

14:01:46 [wendy]

scribe - someone from: http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/scribes.html

14:02:13 [Zakim]

+Wendy

14:02:20 [Zakim]

+Christophe_Strobbe

14:02:35 [wendy]

zakim, drop wendy

14:02:35 [Zakim]

Wendy is being disconnected

14:02:36 [Zakim]

-Wendy

14:02:53 [Zakim]

+Wendy

14:03:23 [wendy]

zakim, who's muted?

14:03:23 [Zakim]

I see no one muted

14:03:45 [Michael]

agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2005JulSep/0536.html

14:04:21 [Zakim]

+??P14

14:04:27 [ben]

zakim, ??P14 is Ben

14:04:27 [Zakim]

+Ben; got it

14:05:18 [Becky]

Becky has joined #wai-wcag

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+Becky_Gibson

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+Steve

14:07:25 [David_MacDonald_]

yes

14:07:41 [Michael]

zakim, Steve is Lisa_Seeman

14:07:41 [Zakim]

sorry, Michael, I do not recognize a party named 'Steve'

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14:12:12 [Zakim]

+Don_Evans

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+[IPcaller]

14:13:31 [Michael]

zakim, IPCaller is David_MacDonald

14:13:31 [Zakim]

+David_MacDonald; got it

14:17:19 [DonFEvans]

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14:17:27 [David_MacDonald_]

mc: html techniques speak up if its important no worry of mapping

14:17:44 [wendy]

scribe: DonFEvans

14:17:51 [DonFEvans]

zakim, i am don

14:17:51 [Zakim]

ok, DonFEvans, I now associate you with Don_Evans

14:18:22 [Michael]

scribe: DonFEvans

14:18:36 [DonFEvans]

chair: Michael

14:19:05 [ben]

discussing: http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2005/06/30-tech-harvest-by-tech.html

14:19:17 [Michael]

topic: Prioritize techniques harvest

14:19:28 [wendy]

Link to a sequence of pages that provide function - not high priority

14:22:34 [DonFEvans]

Text labels above and below the sensory content - medium priority.

14:23:36 [DonFEvans]

Consider no-script element with no content - not a priority

14:25:00 [DonFEvans]

Link to stable site that provides description of different options for real time captioning - move to general - medium priority.

14:25:21 [DonFEvans]

Emphasis element and coloring rather than just using span with color - high priority.

14:25:50 [DonFEvans]

(Similar to L1) - part of previous one.

14:27:22 [DonFEvans]

Tabindex? May be covered by 2.4 - low priority note: doesnt apply to this success criteria.

14:28:22 [DonFEvans]

bgsound, autoplay - High Priority around the practice.

14:29:57 [DonFEvans]

Using foreground and background colors - high priority to work on.

14:31:26 [DonFEvans]

onclick as mechanism to get focus - low priority or drop.

14:32:13 [DonFEvans]

tabindex, though user agent issues - High priority.

14:33:01 [DonFEvans]

Anchors on image buttons - high priority.

14:33:48 [DonFEvans]

Redundant links for server-side image maps - low priority. Move into appendix

14:35:04 [DonFEvans]

Use of <map> to allow keyboard navigation - Not sure what techinque is - is that a way of saying use client image maps? - If so, we already have a techinque for this. - remove technique.

14:36:19 [DonFEvans]

Meta-refresh technique - we already have technique.

14:37:44 [DonFEvans]

Foreground/background issues - Should be general technique - Move to general - high priority as a general technique.

14:39:40 [DonFEvans]

<link> and <a> - low priority. take the existing ones.

14:40:11 [DonFEvans]

Header elements - move to 1.3, it's already there.

14:40:38 [DonFEvans]

Lists and groups of links - high priority.

14:42:34 [DonFEvans]

onclick event handlers that take you to another page - high priority. Mark as possible script as well for cross reference.

14:43:33 [DonFEvans]

Autosubmit combo boxes - should be included - high priority.

14:43:42 [DonFEvans]

and it relates to scripts

14:44:07 [DonFEvans]

Table of contents - general technique - medium priority at best maybe low.

14:45:48 [DonFEvans]

Revise HTML 9.7 to be more general? - low priority.

14:46:01 [DonFEvans]

Ideally, using <div> would help - low priority.

14:46:38 [DonFEvans]

Headers - repeated under passing blocks of content - low priority.

14:46:54 [DonFEvans]

Tables - low priority. really low?

14:47:09 [DonFEvans]

note: not encouraged

14:48:18 [DonFEvans]

Use spacer gif in link text so that it is not visible where alt for spacer gif gives additional clarification - becky: put it pretty low. Ben: we might want to talk about it. Maybe give it a medium priority.

14:50:11 [DonFEvans]

there is some discussion on this, we may want to move this to high priority. Becky: We may want to propose this as a new techinque.

14:50:55 [DonFEvans]

discuss title vs alt as a new techinque - high priority.

14:51:02 [DonFEvans]

still medium on spacer gif.

14:52:54 [DonFEvans]

For image maps, area element should exist in source code in reasonable order - David: is reasonable measurable? This may be a useful thing, but would be at mediom at best.

14:54:15 [DonFEvans]

HTML forms, if multiple submit buttons, be sure the first one is the one you want to be default - becky: Medium to high priority. Not sure how to write the technique.

14:54:20 [DonFEvans]

call it medium

14:55:14 [DonFEvans]

Use of <link> element - existing

14:56:52 [DonFEvans]

Text directionality - High priority

14:57:43 [DonFEvans]

Use of meta tag with content-language - not lang attr - don't know if supported - Michael proposes medium - it needs investigation.

14:59:00 [DonFEvans]

What to do if specify more than one language in header? - low priority.

15:00:40 [DonFEvans]

<link rel="glossary"> - Medium Priority

15:02:04 [DonFEvans]

Definition lists - kill.

15:02:51 [DonFEvans]

Need an alternative to "target" since not allowed in strict HTML - high priority

15:04:31 [DonFEvans]

Need an alternative to "target" since not allowed in strict HTML - High Priority. The violation of this is happening more and more. It is going to be a more of an issue with Ajax.

15:05:32 [DonFEvans]

On leaving a data field - Kinda High Priority.

15:05:59 [DonFEvans]

two techniques, more script then html and it's hight

15:06:31 [DonFEvans]

Use links to cause page to refresh instead of automatic refresh - Medium

15:07:20 [DonFEvans]

noframes, noscript - under 4.2 providing fall backs if outside your base line - David: high priority if not in base line. We do have techniques.

15:09:54 [DonFEvans]

Fallback mechanism for applets (if applet not in baseline) need alternative mechanism for functionality - sounds like a general technique - this is saying you need functional fallback. Michael: this is hight priority. Becky: do you need a link to another page? It does effect the success of the base line. High Priority. Not sure where it goes, we do need to say something. David says maybe in HTML.

15:10:52 [DonFEvans]

Label element for most controls, alt for image input, value for most buttons, text for button element - Existing may need to add one or two things.

15:11:33 [DonFEvans]

"Creating Invisible labels for form elements" is mapped here. Should remap to L1SC4 - in css - controversial - existing in css

15:12:04 [David_MacDonald_]

I can hear good

15:12:28 [DonFEvans]

scribe: David_MacDonald

15:13:06 [wendy]

thanks for scribing don!

15:14:38 [David_MacDonald_]

Using images as list item bullets (removed?) (1.1 L1 SC4) - should be in HTML to direct to css - medium

15:15:52 [David_MacDonald_]

Background images are being used freq now for decorative images (1.1 L1 SC4) - high with a note telling dif btwn decorative and non decorative

15:17:43 [David_MacDonald_]

Use CSS for non-essential background audio (1.1 L1 SC4) - medium

15:18:32 [David_MacDonald_]

# Positioning, styling (1.3 L1 SC1) - existing - low

15:19:37 [David_MacDonald_]

# Not using CSS as the only way to indicate a blockquote (1.3 L2 SC1) - kill!!!!!

15:19:54 [David_MacDonald_]

covered in html

15:21:07 [David_MacDonald_]

Don't put stuff out of sequence (1.3 L3 SC1) - medium - shawn has interesting input

15:21:32 [David_MacDonald_]

maybe a high priority

15:22:52 [David_MacDonald_]

bob eastonm - get him to put it up

15:23:08 [David_MacDonald_]

s/eastonm easton

15:23:33 [wendy]

put it up - encourage people to provide solutions

15:24:38 [Zakim]

-??P16

15:24:52 [David_MacDonald_]

For background images and colors (1.4 L1 SC1) - layered divs - medium

15:25:12 [David_MacDonald_]

Layered divs (1.4 L1 SC1) - high

15:25:37 [David_MacDonald_]

Using foreground and background colors (1.4 L3 SC1) - medium

15:26:01 [David_MacDonald_]

its about what code you use to make colors like bg transparent etc

15:26:21 [Zakim]

-Don_Evans

15:26:24 [wendy]

http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-CSS-TECHS/#colors-backgrounds

15:29:04 [David_MacDonald_]

Switch between using animated vs. Static images (2.2 L2 SC1) - kill

15:29:28 [David_MacDonald_]

wc: maybe Yvette has a technique

15:30:57 [David_MacDonald_]

wc: if so let her submit, she may be in the group for that, if so she's welcome to do it

15:31:24 [David_MacDonald_]

# Foreground/background issues (2.3 L3 SC1) - kill for css

15:33:55 [David_MacDonald_]

Allow keyboard users to view skip links (2.4 L2 SC2) - wendy says wai site blends in that area but does not hide it, might be a technique - high

15:34:49 [David_MacDonald_]

# Negative technique around illogical HTML source order corrected by CSS (2.4 L3 SC1) - kill

15:35:39 [David_MacDonald_]

Make sure people notice the text summary by using diff. Presentation style (3.1 L3 SC5) - low

15:37:19 [David_MacDonald_]

CSS inherit w/inherit property children will accept computed value of parent (3.2 L1 SC1) - medium - if you do it things will be more consistency

15:39:07 [David_MacDonald_]

# CSS about indenting text. Not properly mapped. (3.2 L2 SC1) - high

15:40:46 [Zakim]

-Michael_Cooper

15:40:47 [Zakim]

-Becky_Gibson

15:40:47 [Zakim]

-Ben

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-Chris_Ridpath

15:40:48 [Zakim]

-Wendy

15:40:49 [ChrisR]

ChrisR has left #wai-wcag

15:40:49 [Zakim]

-Christophe_Strobbe

15:40:49 [Zakim]

-Matt_May

15:41:21 [Zakim]

-David_MacDonald

15:41:22 [Zakim]

WAI_WCAG(techniques)10:00AM has ended

15:41:23 [Zakim]

Attendees were Matt_May, Michael_Cooper, Wendy, Christophe_Strobbe, Chris_Ridpath, Ben, Becky_Gibson, Steve, Don_Evans, David_MacDonald

15:41:26 [wendy]

RRSAgent, generate minutes

15:41:26 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/08/24-wai-wcag-minutes.html wendy

15:42:00 [wendy]

Present: Matt_May, Michael_Cooper, Wendy Chisholm, Christophe_Strobbe, Chris_Ridpath, Ben Caldwell, Becky_Gibson, Lisa Seeman, Don_Evans, David_MacDonald

15:42:03 [wendy]

RRSAgent, generate minutes

15:42:03 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/08/24-wai-wcag-minutes.html wendy

15:42:58 [wendy]

zakim, bye

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Zakim has left #wai-wcag

15:43:01 [wendy]

RRSAgent, bye

15:43:01 [RRSAgent]

I see no action items