16:54:13 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #swbp
16:54:13 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/08/22-swbp-irc
16:54:15 <Benjamin_Nguyen> Hello Ralph
16:54:28 <RalphS> Meeting: SWBPD WG
16:54:33 <RalphS> zakim, this will be swbp
16:54:33 <Zakim> ok, RalphS; I see SW_BPD()1:00PM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
16:55:14 <RalphS> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Aug/0062.html
16:55:33 <RalphS> RalphS has changed the topic to: SWBPD WG 22-Aug agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Aug/0062.html
16:55:47 <RalphS> rrsagent, please make record world-visible
16:58:49 <stamou> stamou has joined #swbp
16:59:15 <FabGandon> FabGandon has joined #swbp
16:59:16 <Vassilis> Vassilis has joined #swbp
17:00:32 <Zakim> SW_BPD()1:00PM has now started
17:00:40 <Zakim> +Guus_Schreiber
17:00:57 <Zakim> +Ralph
17:01:06 <Zakim> +[Sophia]
17:01:10 <FabGandon> zakim, [Sophia] is FabGandon
17:01:10 <Zakim> +FabGandon; got it
17:01:23 <ChrisW> ChrisW has joined #swbp
17:01:34 <Guus> Guus has joined #swbp
17:01:38 <Zakim> +Giorgos_Stamou
17:02:21 <Zakim> +[IBM]
17:02:32 <ChrisW> zakim, [ibm] is temporarily ChrisW
17:02:32 <Zakim> +ChrisW; got it
17:03:39 <RalphS> Topic: Admin
17:03:41 <aliman> aliman has joined #swbp
17:03:43 <RalphS> zakim, who's on the call?
17:03:43 <Zakim> On the phone I see Guus_Schreiber, Ralph, FabGandon (muted), Giorgos_Stamou, ChrisW
17:04:00 <RalphS> Regrets: David Booth, Deborah McGuinness, Elisa Kendall, Natasha Noy, Phil Tetlow, Libby Miller, Jeff Pan
17:04:05 <Benjamin_Nguyen> On IRC only
17:05:20 <RalphS> Previous: 2005-07-25 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Jul/0112.html
17:05:22 <Zakim> +??P5
17:05:24 <Zakim> +Alistair_Miles (was ??P5)
17:06:28 <RalphS> Scribe: Ralph
17:06:31 <RalphS> Chair: Guus
17:06:43 <RalphS> Regrets+ Brian McBride
17:07:12 <RalphS> RESOLVED http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Jul/0112.html accepted as minutes of previous telecon
17:07:18 <RalphS> next meeting: 5 September
17:07:43 <RalphS> Ralph: 5 September is a US Holiday
17:07:56 <RalphS> ... "Labor Day"
17:08:16 <RalphS> ChrisW: I am willing to meet on the 5th
17:09:02 <RalphS> Guus: I'm not available on 12 September
17:09:17 <RalphS> Ralph: ok to meet, but expect regrets from many U.S. participants
17:10:05 <RalphS> Guus: 5 Sep or the following telecon we should consider what work we might want to propose for a charter extension or which work to close down
17:11:14 <RalphS> Topic: Liaison
17:11:28 <RalphS> ACTION: Ralph, DavidW, and DavidB to an initial draft of TAG httpRange-14 resolution impact on semweb application developers [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/27-swbp-minutes.html#action02]
17:11:30 <RalphS> -- continues
17:11:46 <RalphS> 2.2 XML Schema Last Call
17:11:53 <RalphS> ACTION: jjc to review XML Schema last call
17:11:55 <RalphS> -- continues
17:12:05 <RalphS> 2.3 OMG: ODM Review
17:12:18 <RalphS> ACTION Guus to comment on ODM
17:12:21 <RalphS> -- withdrawn
17:12:37 <RalphS> Chris: there was discussion on whether triples are resources
17:13:02 <RalphS> ... we were about to conclude that a triple was not a resource as it does not have a URI
17:13:24 <RalphS> ... Pat Hayes corrected us pointing out that triples _could_ be resources if they were given URIs
17:14:38 <RalphS> ... this question has caused confusion in the community
17:15:08 <RalphS> ... the RDF specification is confusing, particularly as reification is non-normative
17:15:56 <RalphS> Ralph: it has been my belief that something could be a Resource and yet not have a URI
17:16:11 <RalphS> Guus: what are the practical implications?
17:16:28 <RalphS> Chris: this impacts the ODM work as they are trying to produce a data model for RDF, RDFS, and OWL
17:16:51 <RalphS> ... if there is a class for Statement, does it go under the Resource class or not?
17:17:12 <RalphS> ... like Guus, I did not believe that triples were resources until Pat pointed this out
17:17:23 <RalphS> ... perhaps we need some more documentation in this area to spread the word
17:18:05 <RalphS> ACTION: ChrisW post mail to the WG about the ODM question of triples, Statements, and Resources
17:18:23 <RalphS> Topic: 2.4 WAI Protocol and Formats WG Request
17:18:38 <RalphS> ACTION: jjc review EARL requirements 
17:18:41 <RalphS> -- continues
17:18:59 <RalphS> Topic: 2.5 Other
17:19:08 <RalphS> "Using URIs to identify non-information resources" has generated a lot 
17:19:08 <RalphS> of discussion:
17:19:08 <RalphS>    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Jul/0045.html
17:19:19 <RalphS> Guus: defer this discussion to next telecon
17:19:33 <RalphS> Topic: 3.11 MM TF Proposal
17:19:43 <RalphS> Revised version of MM TF proposal:
17:19:43 <RalphS>    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Jul/0107.html
17:19:43 <RalphS> PROPOSED to accept this TF as a new SWBP TF.
17:21:06 <RalphS> Ralph: my specific comments have been addressed in this proposal update but I have a general sense of unease given the lack of response from the rest of the WG
17:21:39 <RalphS> Chris: I share this discomfort; the WG is stretched very thin and we are having trouble reviewing the work of the current task forces
17:21:52 <RalphS> Guus: we can talk next meeting about shutting down some Task Forces
17:22:12 <RalphS> Chris: that won't help, as the candidates to be shut down are not producing documents to review
17:23:02 <RalphS> ... work produced by the proposed MM task force will need to be reviewed by the rest of the WG
17:23:13 <RalphS> ... there isn't enough bandwidth in the rest of the WG for this review
17:23:27 <RalphS> ... SE TF is experiencing this problem right now
17:23:55 <Benjamin_Nguyen> I have reviewed SE draft
17:24:10 <Benjamin_Nguyen> albeit with some delay, for which I am sorry about
17:24:40 <Benjamin_Nguyen> review posted to the WG this afternoon : http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Aug/0066.html
17:24:46 <RalphS> Guus: I'm afraid if we continue to postpone this it will be too late to start
17:25:12 <RalphS> Giorgos: we have a collection of examples, several projects, and several people have been sending us materials
17:25:13 <ChrisW> I won't vote against the proposal
17:25:18 <RalphS> ... we are now working on a formal deliverable
17:25:29 <RalphS> ... we have given ourselves a deadline of end of September for this deliverable
17:25:40 <RalphS> Guus: please send this to the WG list
17:26:01 <RalphS> ... I'd like to take a positive attitude and see how it can fit in
17:26:15 <aliman> I think as long as we have the effort to run the TF, and we think the TF is worthy, then we should go ahead.
17:26:31 <RalphS> Giorgos: we have posted to the WG and several, including Jeremy, have send commetns
17:26:43 <RalphS> ... some comments from outside W3C also
17:28:16 <RalphS> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Jul/0094.html Collecting examples of image annotation on the semantic web [Jacco 2005-07-27]
17:28:54 <RalphS> Guus: this is a big area for the Web and the proposal has clear short-term goals
17:30:28 <RalphS> Giogos: we have shared this TF proposal with some non-Members such as Jane Hunter and [??] from IBM
17:30:52 <RalphS> ... if we don't formally open the TF those individuals may not be able to contribute
17:31:10 <RalphS> Guus: we don't have enough people at this telecon to make a decision today
17:31:15 <ChrisW> ??= John Smith
17:31:25 <ChrisW> (seriously)
17:31:46 <RalphS> ... I welcome the TF to continue to work on the assumption of a positive decision at the next WG telecon
17:32:24 <RalphS> Guus: I am very sorry for the continued delay in making a decision
17:33:46 <RalphS> Topic: 3.2 OEP
17:34:01 <RalphS> Guus: n-ary relations reviews from Guus and Ralph are done
17:34:15 <RalphS> ACTION Guus review new n-ary relations editor's draft
17:34:16 <RalphS> -- done
17:34:25 <RalphS> ACTION Ralph review new n-ary relations editor's draft
17:34:27 <RalphS> -- done
17:34:54 <RalphS> Chris: we haven't had TF telecons for a while but hope to resume next week
17:35:00 <aliman> re PORT ... discussion around 2nd review of SKOS Core is underway, Mark van Assem has submitted comments on proposed changes, waiting on Ralph for comments on proposed changes.
17:35:18 <RalphS> ... we are thinking of rescheduling OEP TF telecon to Monday on alternate weeks between WG telecon
17:36:02 <RalphS> Chris: the purpose of the abstract syntax note was to help in writing simple part-whole note
17:36:24 <RalphS> ... would like reviewers to see that simple part-whole note meets their requirements
17:36:53 <RalphS> ... the new part-whole draft reflects responses to all the reviews
17:37:22 <RalphS> Guus: the reviewers should confirm that their comments have been addressed
17:37:58 <RalphS> Chris: Bill from Adobe was one of the reviewers and hasn't been around much.  Don't expect difficulty getting confirmation from the other reviewers.
17:38:06 <RalphS> ... most comments were editorial
17:38:16 <RalphS> Topic: 3.3 WordNet
17:38:31 <RalphS> Guus: there has been some progress
17:38:51 <RalphS> ACTION Aldo to propose an update the Wordnet TF description
17:38:52 <RalphS> -- continues
17:39:33 <RalphS> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Aug/0010.html Proposal for WordNet datamodel from Mark van Assem
17:39:49 <RalphS> Topic: 3.8 RDFTM
17:39:57 <RalphS> ACTION Guus send email to Steve Pepper re status of new rdftm draft
17:39:58 <RalphS> -- done
17:40:11 <RalphS> Topic: 3.10 SE TF
17:40:20 <RalphS> ACTION Chris and Benjamin to review SETF note
17:40:26 <RalphS> -- withdrawn (Chris)
17:40:26 <Benjamin_Nguyen> see my previous comments on the log
17:40:29 <RalphS> -- done (Benjamin)
17:40:34 <FabGandon> Bye bye.
17:41:48 <RalphS> ACTION: Guus remind WG about participation expectations
17:41:53 <Zakim> -ChrisW
17:41:55 <Zakim> -Alistair_Miles
17:41:56 <RalphS> [adjourned]
17:41:59 <Zakim> -Giorgos_Stamou
17:42:01 <Zakim> -FabGandon
17:42:10 <Zakim> -Guus_Schreiber
17:42:12 <Zakim> -Ralph
17:42:13 <Zakim> SW_BPD()1:00PM has ended
17:42:13 <Benjamin_Nguyen> bye all
17:42:14 <Zakim> Attendees were Guus_Schreiber, Ralph, FabGandon, Giorgos_Stamou, ChrisW, Alistair_Miles
17:42:31 <RalphS> zakim, bye
17:42:31 <Zakim> Zakim has left #swbp
17:42:37 <RalphS> rrsagent, please draft minutes
17:42:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/08/22-swbp-minutes.html RalphS
17:44:17 <RalphS> rrsagent, bye
17:44:17 <RRSAgent> I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2005/08/22-swbp-actions.rdf :
17:44:17 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ralph, DavidW, and DavidB to an initial draft of TAG httpRange-14 resolution impact on semweb application developers [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/27-swbp-minutes.html#action02] [1]
17:44:17 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/08/22-swbp-irc#T17-11-28
17:44:17 <RRSAgent> ACTION: jjc to review XML Schema last call [2]
17:44:17 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/08/22-swbp-irc#T17-11-53
17:44:17 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ChrisW post mail to the WG about the ODM question of triples, Statements, and Resources [3]
17:44:17 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/08/22-swbp-irc#T17-18-05
17:44:17 <RRSAgent> ACTION: jjc review EARL requirements  [4]
17:44:17 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/08/22-swbp-irc#T17-18-38
17:44:17 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Guus remind WG about participation expectations [5]
17:44:17 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/08/22-swbp-irc#T17-41-48