IRC log of qa on 2005-08-09
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 09:02:20 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #qa
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- logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/08/09-qa-irc
- 09:02:37 [dom]
- Meeting: QA WG Dublin F2F Day 2 am
- 09:02:41 [dom]
- Chair: Karl
- 09:03:41 [dom]
- Present: Karl, Lofton, Patrick, Lynne, Mark, Richard, Dom
- 09:05:41 [dom]
- RRSAgent, make log public
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- Scribe: dom
- 09:06:31 [dom]
- Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-qa-wg/2005Aug/0004.html
- 09:06:47 [dom]
- RRSagent, draft minutes
- 09:06:47 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/08/09-qa-minutes.html dom
- 09:07:22 [dom]
- Topic: Discussion around GP19
- 09:07:37 [dom]
- Lynne: I think our current text is good
- 09:07:48 [dom]
- ... but I propose to add clarifications to the example
- 09:08:15 [dom]
- -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-qa-wg/2005Aug/0022.html Lynne's rewrite
- 09:10:24 [dom]
- Karl: works for me
- 09:11:32 [dom]
- Dom: I think it does satisfy the editorial problem that has appeared during the discussion
- 09:11:53 [dom]
- ... wrt the more substantive problem, we already said we disagreed with Bjoern's comment
- 09:13:55 [dom]
- RESOLVED: agreed to incorporate Lynne's change to the example in GP19
- 09:16:03 [lynne]
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- 09:16:28 [dom]
- Topic: Test Case data model
- 09:17:08 [dom]
- -> http://esw.w3.org/topic/TestCaseMetadata Test Case Metadata
- 09:19:00 [dom]
- karl: I propose "identification" should be renamed as identifier, as in Dublin Core (DC)
- 09:19:33 [dom]
- patrick: I suggest we actually take the description from dublin core as well
- 09:20:22 [dom]
- -> http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/#identifier Dublin Core definition for identifier
- 09:20:40 [dom]
- patrick: so the description should be "An unambiguous reference to the test case"
- 09:20:55 [dom]
- lynne: re rationale, "buys the ability to uniquely reference the test case"
- 09:21:15 [dom]
- ... a required element
- 09:21:33 [dom]
- ... I don't think there should be any restriction for the syntax
- 09:21:41 [dom]
- karl: should we suggest URIs there?
- 09:22:10 [dom]
- dom: would make sense to at least suggest it
- 09:22:27 [dom]
- lofton: but doesn't that make it bound to the versioning aspect?
- 09:22:58 [dom]
- karl: not necessarily, as in latest/this version in TR
- 09:23:19 [dom]
- patrick: so we should recommend URIs as a good idea, but not as a restriction
- 09:23:58 [dom]
- lynne: relevance, both during development and execution
- 09:24:22 [dom]
- patrick: we should fix "running time" into "test execution" for consistency sake
- 09:25:37 [dom]
- karl: what about example? do we have a real example to link to?
- 09:26:50 [dom]
- -> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Test/HTML401/20030123/tests/9_1-BF-01.html HTML 4.01 Test Case with a unique identifier "9_1-BF-01"
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- 09:27:26 [karl]
- http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Test/HTML401/current/tests/sec9_1-BF-01.html
- 09:28:23 [dom]
- Patrick: N/A for test FAQ
- 09:29:41 [dom]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
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- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/08/09-qa-minutes.html dom
- 09:30:08 [dom]
- Dom: for SeeAlso, maybe Versioning?
- 09:30:18 [dom]
- Lynne: put that as temporary item
- 09:30:38 [dom]
- karl: next item, "name"
- 09:31:07 [dom]
- patrick: we should change to title as in dublin core
- 09:31:15 [dom]
- -> http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/#title Title definition in DC
- 09:31:43 [dom]
- lynne: description is "the name by which the test case is formally known"
- 09:32:02 [dom]
- patrick: rational is something more usable for humans than an identifier
- 09:32:24 [dom]
- ... I don't think it should be required, as sometimes the identifier is enough
- 09:32:28 [dom]
- ... syntax: text
- 09:32:37 [dom]
- ... relevance: both
- 09:32:46 [dom]
- ... test faq: N/A
- 09:33:44 [dom]
- lofton: but isn't a title required for usability?
- 09:34:04 [dom]
- patrick: I have some test suites I've been using for more than 7 years without anything but identifiers
- 09:34:22 [dom]
- lynne: maybe we should add a comment about this?
- 09:34:35 [dom]
- karl: that's a good idea
- 09:34:46 [dom]
- patrick: so let's add a comment field with that point made
- 09:35:01 [dom]
- ... and this also means that SeeAlso should reference identifier
- 09:36:46 [karl]
- http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Test/CSS2.1/current/t0510-c25-pseudo-elmnt-00-c.htm
- 09:37:29 [dom]
- Karl: example from CSS Test suite "Pseudo-elements in selectors", http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Test/CSS2.1/current/t0510-c25-pseudo-elmnt-00-c.htm
- 09:37:49 [dom]
- karl: next is "description"
- 09:38:27 [dom]
- lynne: definition "a representation in words of the nature and characteristics of the test case"
- 09:38:35 [dom]
- patrick: also exists in Dublin core
- 09:38:55 [dom]
- karl: rational?
- 09:39:35 [dom]
- lynne: to provide additional context about the test case
- 09:39:40 [dom]
- s/rational/rationale/
- 09:39:49 [dom]
- dom: not required, AFAICT
- 09:39:57 [dom]
- patrick: syntax: hypertext
- 09:40:01 [dom]
- ... relevance: both
- 09:40:30 [dom]
- ... test faq: N/A
- 09:41:51 [dom]
- Dom: how does it related to purpose? is it redundant?
- 09:42:36 [dom]
- ... I think a broader description than the purpose can be useful
- 09:42:52 [dom]
- Lofton: [reading an example from WebCGM TS illustrating how they complement each other]
- 09:43:06 [lofton]
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- 09:43:13 [lofton]
- Test basic CGM-to-HTML link, from a Application Structure with
- 09:43:13 [lofton]
- linkuri APS Attribute within the CGM, to a whole HTML document, with
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- no behaviors or fragments associated with the link.
- 09:43:42 [dom]
- Lynne: see also: purpose
- 09:44:17 [dom]
- karl: next item is "status"
- 09:44:38 [dom]
- ... useful for development process, but not necessarily at executing test time
- 09:44:43 [dom]
- patrick: depend on your test suite
- 09:44:59 [dom]
- ... we have a test suite that contains buggy tests marked as excluded but that we still ship
- 09:45:00 [lofton]
- That descriptions comes from WebCGM test case linking-basicC2H-BE-02
- 09:45:11 [dom]
- ... in this case, it is relevant at execution time
- 09:46:05 [dom]
- lynne: there are different states before and after release of the test suite
- 09:46:21 [dom]
- s/there are/there may be/
- 09:46:27 [dom]
- karl: is it required?
- 09:46:57 [dom]
- patrick: I don't think it should be required; maybe "recommended" (vs optional)
- 09:47:16 [dom]
- lofton: I think it should be required, maybe with a default value
- 09:47:37 [dom]
- ... it's not reasonnable to release a test suite without that
- 09:47:57 [dom]
- lynne: this wouldn't apply to some of my test suites
- 09:48:18 [dom]
- ... we go through several stages
- 09:50:55 [karl]
- marc: why don't we just call it "None" but required when someone don't want to use it
- 09:55:43 [dom]
- [somewhat consensus around "recommended", although lofton and mark think "required" is better]
- 09:56:40 [dom]
- karl: nothing relevant in DC, as far as I can tell
- 09:56:48 [dom]
- ... what about description?
- 09:58:24 [dom]
- patrick,others: "one of an enumerated list of values that can be used to track the state of a test at a given time"
- 09:59:45 [dom]
- karl: rationale?
- 10:01:17 [dom]
- patrick: during development, it can be helpful to track the test through the review process
- 10:01:59 [dom]
- dom: it helps assess a confidence level with the test, maybe?
- 10:02:06 [dom]
- [rough agreement]
- 10:02:42 [dom]
- dom: syntax?
- 10:02:54 [dom]
- patrick: enumerated list
- 10:03:32 [dom]
- karl: [example from WCAG]
- 10:03:34 [karl]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/tests/ctprocess.html
- 10:03:42 [dom]
- lynne: that's for development time, though
- 10:04:27 [dom]
- patrick: after release, this could be "good, under investigation, withdrawn"
- 10:04:46 [dom]
- ... or "correct" instead of "good"
- 10:05:34 [dom]
- ... test faq: Q6, http://www.w3.org/QA/WG/2005/01/test-faq#review
- 10:05:45 [dom]
- ... "6. What should we do with test contributions we receive?"
- 10:17:43 [dom]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 10:17:43 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/08/09-qa-minutes.html dom
- 10:21:51 [karl]
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- 10:22:35 [dom]
- Patrick: let's skip versioning for now, I suggest
- 10:22:42 [dom]
- Karl: next is "link to spec"
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- ... maybe relates to dc:source
- 10:23:22 [dom]
- patrick: I don't think we should use the word "source"
- 10:24:13 [dom]
- ... but we could say this is equivalent to dc:source?
- 10:24:22 [dom]
- ... I'm not sure there is a benefit to reference this
- 10:24:52 [dom]
- karl: so do we keep the name "link to spec"?
- 10:26:18 [dom]
- patrick: what about "spec reference"?
- 10:27:05 [dom]
- ... description would be "identification of the portion of the specification tested"
- 10:27:48 [dom]
- patrick: rationale is really close to what we put in purpose, isn't it?
- 10:28:39 [dom]
- lynne: "to provide the tracability from the test back to the spec"
- 10:28:47 [dom]
- dom: required?
- 10:28:49 [dom]
- lynne: yes
- 10:28:52 [dom]
- patrick: yes!
- 10:29:13 [dom]
- dom: syntax?
- 10:29:36 [dom]
- patrick: ideally, a URI with an XPath pointer, or a free form hyper text
- 10:29:50 [dom]
- ... we should put as comments that it should be as precise as possible
- 10:30:00 [dom]
- ... e.g. pointing to a particular string rather than a whole section
- 10:30:11 [dom]
- dom: relevance: both
- 10:30:31 [dom]
- patrick: test faq: Q8 is about coverage
- 10:30:55 [dom]
- lynne: for examples, DOM and XML have this I think
- 10:32:02 [dom]
- patrick: the examples in Q8 can be re-used
- 10:32:11 [dom]
- ... e.g. the HTML 4.01 tests
- 10:34:36 [dom]
- dom: looking at the HTML test suite, they annotate their assertion with their RFC 2119 level requirement
- 10:34:45 [dom]
- ... i.e. "must" vs "should"
- 10:34:53 [dom]
- ... is that something we should record in our data model?
- 10:35:15 [dom]
- patrick: it somewhat relates to the variability discussion
- 10:35:21 [dom]
- lynne: or grouping?
- 10:35:30 [dom]
- patrick: let's come back to this later
- 10:36:49 [dom]
- lynne: going back to the spec ref, we should have an example of each type of the syntax
- 10:39:08 [dom]
- patrick: ideally, we could constrcut an xpath uri to match the example we had above
- 10:39:49 [dom]
- karl: what about "link to issue"?
- 10:40:32 [dom]
- patrick: would argue against that, too specific
- 10:40:43 [dom]
- dom: what about a more general "see also"?
- 10:40:50 [dom]
- patrick: sounds good
- 10:41:14 [dom]
- ... could link to an issue database, a discussion in a mailing list
- 10:42:09 [dom]
- dom: so title, "see also"
- 10:42:36 [dom]
- patrick: description is a list of references to external resources relevant to this test case
- 10:42:45 [dom]
- ... 2 use cases: issue in bug db, discussion ml
- 10:43:17 [dom]
- ... rational: useful to be able to link to external resources that provide more context to the existence of the test case
- 10:43:24 [dom]
- dom: not required, obviously
- 10:43:32 [dom]
- patrick: syntax would be list of URIs
- 10:44:16 [dom]
- ... relevance: probably more development than execution, but can be useful also after release when a test is challenged
- 10:44:21 [dom]
- ... e.g. to link to a bug report
- 10:44:37 [karl]
- http://www.w3.org/QA/WG/2005/01/test-faq#bugs
- 10:44:43 [dom]
- ... test FAQ Q15 refers to bugs in a test suite, so maybe relevant
- 10:45:32 [dom]
- ... examples should reference the 2 uses cases
- 10:46:21 [dom]
- karl: it could also be other test cases?
- 10:46:25 [dom]
- patrick: I guess so
- 10:47:07 [dom]
- ... which makes me think that a URI as such isn't useful if there is not human-readable info about the said URI
- 10:47:25 [dom]
- ... so syntax should be a list of pairs of (URI, human readable title)
- 10:48:01 [dom]
- dom: next one is "dependencies" that we suggested should be called "pre-conditions"
- 10:48:37 [dom]
- ... separate from input
- 10:49:11 [dom]
- patrick: description: "conditions that must be met before this test is executed"
- 10:50:14 [dom]
- ... rationale: any such condition must be understood before the test case can be successfully executed
- 10:50:21 [dom]
- ... syntax: hypertext
- 10:50:26 [dom]
- .. relevance: both
- 10:50:31 [dom]
- ... test faq: N/A
- 10:51:05 [dom]
- ... required: not
- 10:51:38 [dom]
- ... I actually think stateless test suites are better
- 10:51:56 [dom]
- lynne: but not every pre-conditions come from dependencies between test cases
- 10:52:03 [dom]
- ... so not necessarily bad
- 10:52:29 [dom]
- patrick: as an example, such a server process must be running for the test case to be executable
- 10:53:36 [dom]
- patrick: let's skip grouping and variability-driven filtering criteria for now
- 10:53:46 [dom]
- dom: next are "input" and "expected results"
- 10:54:27 [dom]
- patrick: name is "input" or "inputs"?
- 10:58:52 [dom]
- ... description: "parameters or data that must be supplied to the test at execution time"?
- 11:00:03 [dom]
- [discussing about whether "supplied to" is appropriate for a test]
- 11:00:20 [dom]
- karl: "parameters or data that are needed for the test execution"
- 11:00:29 [dom]
- patrick: rationale is obvious
- 11:01:02 [dom]
- ... optional since in some cases it doesn't apply
- 11:01:18 [dom]
- karl: syntax, none, since that's implementation dependant
- 11:01:25 [dom]
- ... relevant, both
- 11:01:52 [dom]
- patrick: but probably more importantly at execution time
- 11:02:25 [dom]
- lofton: I think it should be required, with "none" as a possibility
- 11:02:41 [dom]
- patrick: ok, I agree
- 11:02:45 [dom]
- karl: I disagree
- 11:02:50 [dom]
- Lynne: me too
- 11:03:35 [dom]
- ... I may have an entire test suite without input at all
- 11:04:21 [dom]
- [optional seems to gain back consensus]
- 11:04:30 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/08/09-qa-minutes.html dom
- 11:04:59 [dom]
- patrick: test FAQ Q11 may be somewhat relevant
- 11:05:47 [dom]
- karl: example could be HTTP interactions?
- 11:06:18 [dom]
- ... e.g. an HTML file may be served under different conditions (encoding, MIME Type)
- 11:09:10 [dom]
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- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 11:09:39 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/08/09-qa-minutes.html dom
- 11:10:00 [dom]
- RRSAgent, bye
- 11:10:00 [RRSAgent]
- I see no action items
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- logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/08/09-qa-irc
- 13:00:05 [dom]
- ScribeNick: karl
- 13:00:11 [dom]
- Topic: Afternoon session
- 13:00:27 [karl]
- Chair: Dom
- 13:01:07 [karl]
- dom: there is still one easy target - expected results
- 13:01:21 [karl]
- patrick: expected results or output
- 13:01:41 [karl]
- dom: we had the discussion yesterday, that sometimes it's not an ouput
- 13:02:04 [karl]
- ... we keep expected results. agreement of the WG
- 13:02:45 [karl]
- (discussion between people about the definition)
- 13:03:19 [karl]
- description: The results that a correct implementation will produce
- 13:04:40 [karl]
- lynne: the results is know a priori before running the test then we need something which capture that
- 13:04:43 [dom]
- patrick: "the results that a conformant implementation is expected to produce"?
- 13:05:23 [karl]
- dom: I don't think we need a rationale for something which is that simple
- 13:05:35 [karl]
- ... required is mandatory
- 13:05:40 [karl]
- patrick: yes
- 13:05:49 [karl]
- dom: syntax is implementaiton dependant
- 13:06:20 [karl]
- dom: what about tesfaq?
- 13:06:29 [karl]
- patrick: TestFAQ 9
- 13:07:57 [karl]
- ... in test FAQ 9, I don't like the word outcome
- 13:08:19 [karl]
- dom: no link for the test FAQ 9
- 13:08:29 [lofton]
- lofton has joined #qa
- 13:08:39 [karl]
- patrick: before we had the CSS Test Result: background green
- 13:08:45 [karl]
- http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Test/CSS2.1/current/t0510-c25-pseudo-elmnt-00-c.htm
- 13:09:10 [karl]
- See also - nothing in particular
- 13:09:33 [karl]
- dom: we are done with the simple ones
- 13:09:42 [karl]
- ... should we tackle the difficult ones
- 13:10:44 [karl]
- ... Grouping is a super property of variability
- 13:11:01 [karl]
- lofton: David proposed grouping?
- 13:11:20 [karl]
- dom: david proposed specific driven variarability
- 13:13:07 [karl]
- patrick: generic keywords would be useful to identify for the test case.
- 13:13:24 [karl]
- dom: keywords are not a property of test case
- 13:14:54 [karl]
- patrick explaining his position about dealing with grouping
- 13:15:31 [karl]
- patrick: Do we reduce grouping and variability to only one property.
- 13:16:03 [karl]
- lofton: (reading the comment of variability in the wiki)
- 13:16:27 [karl]
- lofton: it seems that David agrees with the notion of grouping
- 13:16:40 [karl]
- patrick: yes you can have multiple ways of grouping
- 13:17:25 [karl]
- dom: mAybe it's so generic than it's not tied to the test case, and we could write prose to encourage people
- 13:17:36 [karl]
- ... to use grouping for the process management
- 13:18:03 [karl]
- patrick: There may be multiple ways of slicing data in different sets.
- 13:18:17 [karl]
- dom: we should maybe separate it
- 13:18:43 [karl]
- patrick: maybe it fits in this template, but I see the problem of free form.
- 13:19:07 [karl]
- dom: Maybe it deserves more space. It something we should add before in prose
- 13:19:21 [karl]
- patrick: it's something which might be addressed in the test FAQ
- 13:21:22 [karl]
- dom, patrick: Grouping? (maybe to be modified if a better name)
- 13:21:28 [karl]
- karl: what about keywords?
- 13:21:34 [karl]
- dom: too specific.
- 13:21:36 [karl]
- karl: ok
- 13:24:37 [karl]
- ... after discussion Description: "mechanism for classifying test cases into groups"
- 13:25:46 [karl]
- patrick: you want to be able to deal with variety of subsets
- 13:26:16 [karl]
- ... then the rationale will be
- 13:26:26 [karl]
- lynne: agreed
- 13:26:43 [karl]
- dom: I think we should include some examples
- 13:27:39 [karl]
- karl: why should I care? what will you answer me?
- 13:28:01 [karl]
- patrick: A subset which shares some common characterics.
- 13:28:25 [karl]
- ... To be able to select a subset which shares common characteristics.
- 13:28:38 [karl]
- ... This is the rationale.
- 13:29:00 [karl]
- Required: no. agreement of the group
- 13:30:08 [karl]
- patrick: I would say one or more enumerated list
- 13:30:14 [karl]
- lofton: it's too limited
- 13:30:30 [karl]
- ... the syntax is variable and include blablabla
- 13:31:17 [karl]
- patrick: syntax: Implementation dependent, some possibilities include naming conventions, enumerated lists, and naming conventions, and others.
- 13:31:27 [karl]
- dom: relevance?
- 13:31:32 [karl]
- ... both
- 13:31:37 [karl]
- dom: TestFAQ?
- 13:32:18 [karl]
- patrick: we need to add a question to the Test FAQ
- 13:32:29 [karl]
- ... how to deal with DOV
- 13:32:40 [karl]
- dom: I don't think we should have DOV in the question
- 13:32:54 [karl]
- patrick: something explaining the DOV.
- 13:33:03 [karl]
- dom: Example?
- 13:33:26 [karl]
- ... interactive versus automated.
- 13:33:33 [karl]
- ... voice versus dtmg
- 13:33:42 [karl]
- s/dtmg/dtmf/
- 13:34:11 [karl]
- ... tests marked for various profile
- 13:34:44 [karl]
- ... SVG Tiny/Full had a subnaming convention.
- 13:35:11 [karl]
- dom: Comments: @@to be done with the capture of the discussion@@
- 13:35:47 [karl]
- lofton: what about DOV keyword?
- 13:36:00 [karl]
- dom: we just discussed that it was a kind of grouping
- 13:36:13 [karl]
- ... what would be the gain?
- 13:38:30 [karl]
- lofton: For groupings other that driven variability ones, arbitrary groupings, I don't think there's a compelling argument for calling them recommended.
- 13:38:48 [karl]
- ... for variability it's tied to the conformance clause
- 13:39:10 [karl]
- dom: but you said the recent SVG Test suite didn't deal with it
- 13:39:25 [karl]
- lofton: the first incarnation dealt with it.
- 13:40:02 [karl]
- ... you can't test if you don't have grouping for variability
- 13:40:47 [karl]
- lynne: maybe we need something for conformance and variability testing
- 13:41:36 [karl]
- lofton: I don't think it should be buried in grouping
- 13:44:11 [karl]
- karl: I don't think it's part of the test suite
- 13:44:22 [karl]
- s/test suite/test case/
- 13:45:00 [karl]
- dom: lofton is saying that it's part of the conformance criteria and the test case should say which profiles belong to
- 13:45:38 [karl]
- lynne: the reasons you would like to group is related to the conformance.
- 13:48:14 [karl]
- karl: could we work with a practical example?
- 13:48:20 [karl]
- ... (discussion)
- 13:55:01 [karl]
- ... explaining that a specific test case can be called by many specifications
- 13:56:17 [karl]
- ... and then we will have a huge list of conformance grouping.
- 13:56:27 [karl]
- discussion between lynne and patrick
- 13:57:50 [karl]
- patrick: we have to be very explicit in the examples and comments about the ways to use grouping
- 13:57:59 [karl]
- ... there are many different cases.
- 13:58:34 [karl]
- karl: (examples for WebCGM, XSLT, Java world, xml:lang attributes, etc.)
- 14:01:41 [karl]
- karl: I think it's a meta level which is not tied to the test case
- 14:01:53 [karl]
- lofton: yes I can buy that.
- 14:02:14 [karl]
- dom: (it seems we have an agreement)
- 14:02:21 [karl]
- ... versioning?
- 14:02:31 [karl]
- patrick: we will have the same problem.
- 14:03:05 [karl]
- dom: version of the test case? version of the test suite? version of the specification?
- 14:04:52 [karl]
- patrick: a test which is valid for a spec A at a time doesn't say that the test will not be useful for another spec B later on.
- 14:05:24 [karl]
- dom: it seems to be another kind grouping
- 14:06:03 [karl]
- karl: how do we relate versioning and status?
- 14:06:24 [karl]
- dom: you might want to keep version control for the development of your test case.
- 14:07:00 [karl]
- patrick: Identifier blablabla version X for keeping an history in time. Ok I agree with that
- 14:08:11 [karl]
- lynne: this is the version of the test itself.
- 14:08:19 [karl]
- dom: Name: version
- 14:12:22 [karl]
- QAWG: Description: "Identifier which allows one to distinguish between different revisions of test case"
- 14:13:11 [karl]
- QAWG: Rationale: "It @@provides@@ an history of the evolution of the test case."
- 14:13:21 [karl]
- QAWG: Required yes
- 14:13:36 [karl]
- QAWG: Relevance: both
- 14:14:25 [karl]
- QAWG: Syntax: Free to implementation (see examples)
- 14:16:14 [karl]
- QAWG: TestFAQ: Link 14.
- 14:16:47 [karl]
- QAWG: Examples: look at CSS TS with latest etc. @@@@
- 14:18:14 [karl]
- (break)
- 14:34:33 [karl]
- QAWG: name: Contributor
- 14:34:50 [karl]
- ... See Dublin Core
- 14:35:41 [lofton]
- lofton has joined #qa
- 14:37:42 [karl]
- ... discussion about ownership, about people submitting test but didn't want to assume the management of the test
- 14:39:05 [karl]
- patrick: you might want to know, who did this test so that it can be fix by the same entity who created the test.
- 14:41:12 [karl]
- dom: we have several questions.
- 14:41:20 [karl]
- ... do we keep the metadata
- 14:41:26 [karl]
- ... do we keep that name
- 14:42:00 [karl]
- lynne: I want to know who and/or where the test case came from. I need at least one of those.
- 14:43:20 [karl]
- patrick: you want to be able to identify the legal ownership of the test before the donation.
- 14:44:02 [karl]
- QAWG: name chosen is Contributor
- 14:47:08 [karl]
- ... description: "Individual or organization that contributed this test case."
- 14:48:06 [karl]
- ... Rationale: "It might be important to track the origin of the test for technical reasons, legal issues, modifications, etc."
- 14:49:35 [karl]
- ... Required: optional
- 14:49:59 [karl]
- ... Syntax: hypertext
- 14:50:10 [karl]
- ... relevance: primary development
- 14:50:45 [karl]
- ... TestFAQ: Question 10
- 14:51:11 [karl]
- ... Example: XML Test Suite attribution to different contributors
- 14:52:49 [karl]
- ... includes contribution from Microsoft, IBM, Sun, etc. @@link to an example@@
- 14:52:56 [karl]
- dom: dates?
- 14:54:07 [karl]
- karl: we can have dates about many things
- 14:54:19 [karl]
- dom; we should skip it
- 14:54:35 [karl]
- lynne: wait a minute, I don't want to get rid completely of it.
- 14:55:54 [karl]
- karl: I agree with lynne. And I think we should deal with it in the introduction.
- 14:56:26 [karl]
- QAWG: It needs to be discussed somewhere.
- 14:56:44 [karl]
- Lynne: Maybe in a note section after the metadata elements
- 14:56:54 [karl]
- karl: agreed
- 14:57:10 [karl]
- QAWG: Types: it's just a kind of grouping
- 14:57:21 [karl]
- ... everyone agreed
- 14:57:34 [karl]
- QAWG: Source?
- 14:57:41 [karl]
- ... Not that important
- 14:57:54 [karl]
- QAWG: Language?
- 14:58:00 [karl]
- ... should be like date in the note.
- 14:58:24 [karl]
- ... Coverage?
- 14:58:37 [karl]
- ... Dropped
- 14:58:42 [karl]
- ... Rights?
- 14:59:48 [karl]
- patrick: copyrights are dealt with a tangible form already. We should not try to address in a particular way.
- 15:02:30 [karl]
- ... we may be stepped on lawyer's feet.
- 15:02:51 [karl]
- dom: We are not saying how they should be managed, we are giving a pointer.
- 15:05:14 [karl]
- karl: it's a pointer to the rights, not the rights
- 15:05:31 [karl]
- QAWG: Rights
- 15:05:36 [karl]
- ... description
- 15:06:00 [karl]
- ... Description: Information about rights held in and over the test case.
- 15:07:59 [karl]
- ... Rationale: Publishers and Users of the test case need to know where the legal rights lie
- 15:08:23 [karl]
- ... Requires: Optional
- 15:08:45 [karl]
- ... Syntax: Ask your lawyer.
- 15:08:52 [karl]
- ... Relevance: both
- 15:09:11 [karl]
- ... Test FAQ: Q. 10
- 15:10:37 [karl]
- ... Examples: @@To find an example@@
- 15:10:56 [karl]
- ... Priority? no interest
- 15:11:06 [karl]
- ... References? no interest
- 15:11:40 [karl]
- See mail for the previous discussion: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-qa-wg/2005Aug/0020.html
- 15:11:57 [karl]
- dom: what do we do with that?
- 15:29:37 [karl]
- QAWG: We decided to publish this as a W3C WG Note. Patrick Curran will write the prose, introduction + notes + Issues, The text will be reviewed by Richard Kennedy
- 15:29:55 [karl]
- ... The text will be put in a ready to publish form by Karl
- 15:30:07 [karl]
- ... before August 31.
- 15:31:44 [karl]
- dom: what do people think about creating actual schema for this Test Case Model.
- 15:31:49 [karl]
- QAWG: Great Idea
- 15:32:46 [karl]
- karl: do we try to gather people around it?
- 15:33:15 [karl]
- patrick: We should try first to create a first version of an XML Schema and/or RDF Schema and try to gather people after it.
- 15:33:56 [karl]
- ... I would focus more on tools and very practical things.
- 15:34:02 [karl]
- karl: by tools?
- 15:34:56 [karl]
- patrick: something concrete and specific, the schema is too abstract, but something that can be usable: tools, programs, templates
- 15:35:03 [karl]
- ... that might interest people to work on it
- 15:36:46 [karl]
- dom: Agenda for tomorrow morning. QA IG deliverables for rechartering.
- 15:36:51 [karl]
- ... teleconferences
- 15:36:58 [karl]
- ... next F2F?
- 15:37:14 [karl]
- lofton: Next TP in France end of Feb 2006.
- 15:37:47 [karl]
- karl: Basically future work
- 15:38:00 [karl]
- patrick: shopping list of what we could for the next months
- 15:38:49 [dom]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 15:38:49 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/08/09-qa-minutes.html dom
- 15:38:53 [karl]
- ADJJOURNED
- 15:39:50 [dom]
- Meeting: QA WG Dublin F2F Day 2
- 15:39:52 [dom]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 15:39:52 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/08/09-qa-minutes.html dom
- 15:43:53 [lofton]
- lofton has left #qa