13:54:20 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #swbp
13:54:20 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/08/02-swbp-irc
13:54:31 <Ralph> Meeting: SWBPD RDFXHTML TF
13:56:13 <Ralph> Previous: http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes
14:00:28 <benadida> benadida has joined #swbp
14:01:02 <Zakim> SW_BPD(rdfxhtml)10:00AM has now started
14:01:09 <Zakim> +Ralph
14:01:22 <Zakim> +Ben_Adida
14:01:25 <Zakim> -Ralph
14:01:26 <Zakim> +Ralph
14:01:34 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
14:01:34 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
14:01:36 <Zakim> +Steven
14:01:37 <Ralph> Chair: Ben
14:01:43 <Zakim> -Steven
14:01:45 <Zakim> +Danbri
14:01:52 <Zakim> +Steven
14:01:56 <Zakim> -Steven
14:02:17 <Steven> I'll check the router
14:02:20 <Steven> Just a mo
14:03:05 <Ralph> Ben: most of my actions CONTINUE
14:05:12 <Ralph> ... worried about finding an interim chair for next 6 weeks
14:05:22 <Ralph> Ralph: yeah, no progress on finding a candidate
14:05:37 <Ralph> DanBri: I'm willing to chair a few telecons but not the entire 6 weeks
14:06:08 <Ralph> Ralph: likewise
14:07:48 <danbri> in http://www.w3.org/2003/Editors/#tools ?
14:09:05 <danbri> q+ to ask steven if HTML link type text changed from feb to may
14:09:25 <danbri> agenda+ danbri progress report re http://www.w3.org/2005/05/hrel/
14:10:04 <Steven_> Steven_ has joined #swbp
14:10:17 <Ralph> -> http://www.w3.org/Guide/Overview.html Art of Consensus
14:10:34 <Steven_> zakim, dial steven-617
14:10:34 <Zakim> ok, Steven_; the call is being made
14:10:34 <Zakim> +Steven
14:10:34 <Ralph> see "Style for Group-internal Drafts" under "The Recommendation Track"
14:11:25 <Ralph> Steven: possible regrets from Mark
14:13:22 <Ralph> Topic: RDF Role
14:13:39 <Ralph> Steven: as far as I'm concerned, it's resolved
14:13:51 <Ralph> agenda+ RDF Role attribute
14:13:56 <Ralph> Topic: Action Review
14:14:13 <Ralph> agenda+ HTML rel types [DanBri]
14:15:28 <Ralph> ACTION: Ben create a way to track progress on the 3 issues of qnames, reification, and custom attributes and elements [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action01]
14:15:30 <Ralph> -- continues
14:15:34 <Ralph> ACTION: Ben send mail to www-html-editors to assign an issue for the GRDDL namespace document behind the profile [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/19-swbp-minutes.html#action03]
14:15:36 <Ralph> -- continues
14:15:39 <Ralph> ACTION: Ben to notify working group via a status report of upcoming WD of Note [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/19-swbp-minutes.html#action02]
14:15:40 <Ralph> -- continues
14:15:43 <Ralph> ACTION: Ben to put together the "ACID" test for XHTML2 RDF/A [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action02]
14:15:44 <Ralph> -- continues
14:15:52 <Ralph> ACTION: Mark to check edge cases of inheritance in RDF/A [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action06]
14:15:57 <Ralph> -- continues
14:16:01 <Ralph> ACTION: jjc to review rdf concepts and fragments [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action10]
14:16:06 <Ralph> -- continues
14:16:16 <Ralph> ACTION: All take a serious look at Mark's bnode proposal summary http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2005Jun/0010.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action07]
14:16:33 <Ralph> -- continues
14:17:26 <Ralph> drop agendum 3
14:17:36 <Ralph> zakim, agenda?
14:17:37 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda:
14:17:40 <Zakim> 1. danbri progress report re http://www.w3.org/2005/05/hrel/ [from danbri]
14:17:41 <Zakim> 2. RDF Role attribute [from Ralph]
14:18:02 <Ralph> Ralph: HTML2 Last Call status?
14:18:11 <Ralph> Steven: churning through issues; schema is getting close
14:18:27 <Ralph> ... we now have a complete RelaxNG version and it's being converted to XML Schema
14:18:52 <Ralph> ... f2f scheduled for early September; that's the most likely moment to decide to go to Last Call
14:19:50 <Ralph> DanBri: have the link type definitions changed much since the Feb [editor's] draft and the latest public WD?
14:20:00 <Ralph> Steven: there is a good diff-marked document
14:20:02 <Steven_> Diff version: http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml2/xhtml2-diff.html
14:20:33 <benadida> back
14:20:51 <Ralph> Steven: copyright is new
14:21:04 <Ralph> ... icon and profile are also new
14:21:45 <Ralph> rrsagent, please make logs public
14:22:08 <Ralph> Steven: in the diff, yellow is added text, green is changed text
14:22:25 <Ralph> ... orange is deleted text (but I thought that this version did not show deleted text)
14:22:40 <danbri> q+ to check that preferred xhtml2 ns  is exactly "http://www.w3.org/2002/06/xhtml2/"
14:22:50 <benadida> ack
14:23:19 <Ralph> move to next agendum
14:23:19 <Zakim> agendum 1. "danbri progress report re http://www.w3.org/2005/05/hrel/" taken up [from danbri]
14:23:22 <Zakim> danbri, you wanted to ask steven if HTML link type text changed from feb to may and to check that preferred xhtml2 ns  is exactly "http://www.w3.org/2002/06/xhtml2/"
14:23:56 <danbri> http://www.w3.org/2005/05/hrel/
14:23:59 <Ralph> DanBri: my task was to make an RDF representation of the HTML link types and draft a note
14:24:13 <Steven_> Orange colour means that the statement is a 'must'
14:24:17 <Ralph> -> http://www.w3.org/2005/05/hrel/ XHTML link types in RDF
14:24:38 <Ralph> DanBri: lots of open issues at the end of this draft
14:25:02 <Ralph> ... current text is largely copied from the XML document
14:25:34 <Ralph> ... would like to hear from implementors on some of the details
14:25:52 <Ralph> ... some things missing; e.g. bookmark titles
14:26:01 <Ralph> ... one open issue: what is the namespace URI?
14:26:13 <Ralph> ... have been assuming that we'd use the XHTML2 namespace
14:26:31 <Ralph> ... so what [char] is at the end of the namespace URI?
14:27:01 <Ralph> Steven: we could do a redirect if necessary -- what's the reason for requiring it?
14:27:25 <Ralph> DanBri: TAG resolution on # vs. / and information resources [see httpRange-14]
14:27:55 <Ralph> Steven: we put the / at the end to help with the RDF stuff; we thought this gave us the most flexibility
14:29:02 <benadida> q+ to ask about using RDF/A to define the RDFS
14:29:11 <Ralph> DanBri: I tried to find an expansion for XHTML to use with the acronym tag
14:29:24 <Ralph> Steven: use Extensible Hypertext Markup Language
14:29:24 <benadida> ack
14:29:26 <benadida> ack ben
14:29:26 <Zakim> benadida, you wanted to ask about using RDF/A to define the RDFS
14:29:28 <danbri> ""Extensible Hypertext Markup Language" = XHTML
14:30:41 <Ralph> Ben: does the httpRange-14 issue resolution mean that we can't have an XHTML2 document containing RDF/A that is an RDF Schema for the rel types?
14:30:57 <danbri> +1 on it being nice to have an RDF/A version
14:31:03 <Ralph> ... it would be nice from a consistency viewpoint if we could write the RDF schema in RDF/A
14:31:04 <danbri> (I'd like an application/rdf+xml too)
14:31:49 <Ralph> DanBri: I think this should be possible with a combination of redirects and content negotiation
14:33:47 <Ralph> Ralph: in a private conversation with TimBL yesterday he confirmed that 303 and possibly 308 were the only acceptable redirection responses for the httpRange-14 resolution
14:33:54 <Ralph> DanBri: will this make it on the TAG agenda?
14:34:12 <Ralph> Ralph: not likely unless we raise it, possibly via a use case
14:34:26 <Ralph> DanBri: I though I'd done that with a purl.org example
14:36:03 <Ralph> DanBri: I'd like to propose [an updated version of] http://www.w3.org/2005/05/hrel/ to the SWBPD WG to be a Working Draft
14:36:19 <Ralph> ... I'd like to link from this document directly to the XHTML document
14:38:33 <danbri> looking at http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-infoset-rdfs ... tiny little doc
14:40:43 <Ralph> DanBri: should feedback go to just the TF mailing list, or should this be considered a joint WG task with feedback to both lists?
14:40:51 <Ralph> Steven: there is no objection to the TF owning this
14:41:05 <Ralph> ... the HTML WG has enough on its hands and are happy to just coordinate
14:41:13 <Ralph> s/TF/SWBPD WG/
14:41:34 <Ralph> Steven: fine with me to direct feedback just to the TF mailing list
14:41:51 <Ralph> DanBri: ok to point into the XHTML2 spec for the definitions?
14:41:55 <Ralph> [no objections]
14:42:07 <danbri> <rdf:Property rdf:about"#start">
14:42:09 <danbri> <rdfs:label>start</rdfs:label>
14:42:10 <danbri> <rdfs:comment>Refers to the first resource in a collection of resources. A typical use case might be a collection of chapters in a book.</rdfs:comment>
14:42:12 <danbri> <rdfs:range rdf:resource"#Document"/>
14:42:13 <danbri> <rdfs:domain rdf:resource"#Document"/>
14:42:15 <danbri> <rdf:type rdf:resource"http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl#ObjectProperty"/>
14:42:17 <danbri> </rdf:Property>
14:42:25 <Ralph> DanBri: RDF/OWL definitions in-line or in appendix?
14:42:36 <Ralph> Steven: my preference has been to put all that in appendices
14:42:58 <Ralph> Ralph: I'd like to see it inline somewhere [appendix is fine]
14:43:28 <Ralph> DanBri: note my addition of a Class of documents
14:43:51 <Ralph> Steven: when we say 'documents' we actually mean anything addressable by a URI -- i.e. a resource
14:44:01 <Ralph> DanBri: 'resource' is an overloaded term
14:44:26 <Ralph> ... can we agree to use the TAG's definition of 'information resource'?
14:44:29 <Ralph> Steven: fine by me
14:44:47 <Ralph> DanBri: on the ATOM mailing list there has been discussion of new link types, identified by URI\
14:45:00 <Ralph> ... I'd like to cite that from this document
14:45:03 <danbri> see atom-syntax
14:45:37 <Ralph> ... there's a built-in set of link types in ATOM
14:45:45 <Ralph> ... they've decided to use the IETF process to register new link types
14:46:05 <Ralph> ... shortnames acceptable if URI has been registered with IETF, otherwise a full URI is acceptable
14:46:21 <Ralph> move to next agendum
14:46:21 <Zakim> agendum 2. "RDF Role attribute" taken up [from Ralph]
14:46:54 <Ralph> Steven: my proposal was to make role a synonym for rdf:type
14:47:15 <Ralph> ... Jeremy said he'd be happier if it were a subtype [subProperty] of rdf:type
14:47:45 <Ralph> Ben: the role attribute can be applied to any element?
14:47:57 <Ralph> Steven: yes, it was originally introduced for accessibility
14:48:11 <danbri> q+ to suggest it be considered _syntax_ for rdf:type, not a subPropertyOf (which takes us out of OWL DL/Lite for all apps)
14:48:13 <Ralph> ... the accessibility community began defining some roles they needed
14:48:23 <Ralph> ... it dawned on the HTML WG that role was more generally useful
14:48:33 <benadida> ack danbri
14:48:33 <Zakim> danbri, you wanted to suggest it be considered _syntax_ for rdf:type, not a subPropertyOf (which takes us out of OWL DL/Lite for all apps)
14:49:36 <Ralph> DanBri: we should try to avoid shutting out OWL-DL from using XHTML2
14:50:15 <Ralph> Ben: how does <div role='whatever'> apply to the element?  Does this effectively become a bnode?
14:50:34 <Ralph> Steven: it may well be
14:51:08 <Ralph> ACTION: Ben add role attribute to the [HTML] issues list
14:51:42 <Ralph> Ben: should this be part of the RDF Schema that DanBri is working on?
14:51:59 <Ralph> DanBri: if we're only using rdf:type it's pure syntax and doesn't affect the schema
14:52:16 <Ralph> ... is there anything else in the syntax that shows up as RDF Properties or Classes?
14:52:22 <Ralph> Steven: don't think so
14:52:43 <Zakim> -Steven
14:52:50 <Ralph> close this agendum
14:56:23 <Zakim> -Ben_Adida
14:56:34 <Zakim> -Danbri
14:56:40 <Ralph> DanBri: ok for me to announce the link types document to the WG when I'm ready?
14:56:41 <Ralph> Ben: sure
14:56:46 <Ralph> [adjourned]
14:56:49 <Zakim> -Ralph
14:56:50 <Zakim> SW_BPD(rdfxhtml)10:00AM has ended
14:56:51 <Zakim> Attendees were Ralph, Ben_Adida, Steven, Danbri
14:57:34 <benadida> benadida has left #swbp
14:59:00 <danbri> "New!Style for Group-internal Drafts" is indeed in /Guide/
14:59:09 <danbri> i was looking for 'Editor's ...'
15:05:08 <Ralph> as was I
15:05:31 <Ralph> rrsagent, please draft minutes
15:05:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/08/02-swbp-minutes.html Ralph
15:05:43 <Ralph> zakim, bye
15:05:43 <Zakim> Zakim has left #swbp
15:05:48 <Ralph> rrsagent, bye
15:05:48 <RRSAgent> I see 8 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2005/08/02-swbp-actions.rdf :
15:05:48 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben create a way to track progress on the 3 issues of qnames, reification, and custom attributes and elements [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action01] [1]
15:05:48 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/08/02-swbp-irc#T14-15-28
15:05:48 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben send mail to www-html-editors to assign an issue for the GRDDL namespace document behind the profile [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/19-swbp-minutes.html#action03] [2]
15:05:48 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/08/02-swbp-irc#T14-15-34
15:05:48 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to notify working group via a status report of upcoming WD of Note [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/19-swbp-minutes.html#action02] [3]
15:05:48 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/08/02-swbp-irc#T14-15-39
15:05:48 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to put together the "ACID" test for XHTML2 RDF/A [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action02] [4]
15:05:48 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/08/02-swbp-irc#T14-15-43
15:05:48 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Mark to check edge cases of inheritance in RDF/A [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action06] [5]
15:05:48 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/08/02-swbp-irc#T14-15-52
15:05:48 <RRSAgent> ACTION: jjc to review rdf concepts and fragments [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action10] [6]
15:05:48 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/08/02-swbp-irc#T14-16-01
15:05:48 <RRSAgent> ACTION: All take a serious look at Mark's bnode proposal summary http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2005Jun/0010.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-swbp-minutes.html#action07] [7]
15:05:48 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/08/02-swbp-irc#T14-16-16
15:05:48 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben add role attribute to the [HTML] issues list [8]
15:05:48 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/08/02-swbp-irc#T14-51-08