14:23:58 RRSAgent has joined #dawg 14:23:58 logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/08/02-dawg-irc 14:24:05 Meeting: RDF Data Access WG Weekly 14:24:11 Regrets: SouriD 14:24:49 DanC has changed the topic to: DAWG 2 Aug. scribe: AndyS http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/ 14:25:10 agenda + Convene, take roll, review records and agenda 14:25:17 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSep/0162.html 14:25:26 EliasT has joined #dawg 14:25:27 agenda + ISSUE resultsMimeType 14:25:36 agenda + SPARQL results publication 14:25:43 agenda + toward Protocol last call 14:25:53 agenda + SPARQL QL comment status and editorial comments 14:26:03 agenda + issue valueTesting 14:26:14 agenda + issue badIRIRef 14:26:24 agenda + comment "Query forms should be resources, not operations" 14:26:30 agenda + Test cases publication 14:27:43 whew, crowded agenda :> 14:28:50 yeah... it took me several hours to write 14:29:15 i bet 14:29:51 SW_DAWG()10:30AM has now started 14:29:52 +Kendall_Clark 14:30:17 +[IBMCambridge] 14:30:19 -[IBMCambridge] 14:30:20 +[IBMCambridge] 14:30:28 Zakim, IBMCambridge is EliasT 14:30:28 +EliasT; got it 14:30:38 +??P8 14:30:43 Zakim, ??P8 is DaveB 14:30:43 +DaveB; got it 14:30:44 +Jeen_Broekstra 14:31:02 +DanC 14:31:14 +HowardK 14:31:21 Zakim, take up item 1 14:31:21 agendum 1. "Convene, take roll, review records and agenda" taken up [from DanC] 14:31:32 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSep/0162.html 14:31:43 Regrets: SouriD 14:31:55 +EricP 14:32:41 Meeting: RDF Data Access 14:32:44 -> http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-minutes minutes 26 Jul 2005 Date: 2005/08/01 15:34:54 14:32:51 Scribe: AndyS 14:33:01 +??P13 14:33:05 zakim, ??P13 is AndyS 14:33:05 +AndyS; got it 14:33:10 RESOLVED: to approve 26 Jul minutes 14:33:25 +[IPcaller] 14:33:26 JosD has joined #dawg 14:33:30 next meeting: 9 Aug? 14:33:49 Zakim, IPcaller is JanneS 14:33:54 +JanneS; got it 14:34:04 Zakim, who's on the phone? 14:34:04 On the phone I see Kendall_Clark, EliasT, DaveB, Jeen_Broekstra, DanC, HowardK, EricP, AndyS, JanneS 14:34:04 JanneS has joined #dawg 14:34:06 Zakim, who's on the phone? 14:34:06 On the phone I see Kendall_Clark, EliasT, DaveB, Jeen_Broekstra, DanC, HowardK, EricP, AndyS, JanneS 14:34:26 +Jos_De_Roo 14:34:52 Next meeting: 9 August / next scribe : JanneS 14:35:23 Actions continued 14:35:47 Zakim, next agendum 14:35:47 agendum 2. "ISSUE resultsMimeType" taken up [from DanC] 14:37:25 Yes but without broken lines :-) 14:37:38 ACTION: ericP to add "don't normalize" to rq23 14:37:59 ACTION: EricP to add test in 0096 to rq23 tests. label "approved" and 14:37:59 ref http://www.w3.org/2005/07/26-dawg-minutes 14:38:31 zakim, mute me 14:38:31 Kendall_Clark should now be muted 14:38:34 ACTION: DaveB respond to "sparqlResults namespace" comment http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2005Jul/0039.html [CONTINUES] 14:39:22 Zakim, next agendum 14:39:22 agendum 3. "SPARQL results publication" taken up [from DanC] 14:39:24 Actions done from item 2 14:39:24 [OK?] == are you happy message 14:39:37 zakim, unmute me 14:39:37 Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted 14:40:08 Actions done as noted in agenda 14:40:19 ACTION: EricP to publish rf1 14:40:29 Zakim, next agendum 14:40:29 agendum 4. "toward Protocol last call" taken up [from DanC] 14:41:19 Actions done as noted in agenda (item 4) 14:42:11 Kendall: v1.55 isn't ready but KC will OK it if everyone else does 14:42:15 +NickG 14:42:22 Zakim, NickG is SteveH 14:42:22 +SteveH; got it 14:42:25 Zakim, mute me 14:42:25 SteveH should now be muted 14:42:26 welcome SteveH 14:42:35 q+ to ask about SOAP binding 14:42:53 DanC: no red items should be there 14:43:14 EricP suggests replacing with @@ 14:43:23 the result has the old namespace 14:44:32 DanC: wants examples to be in test suite for protocol 14:44:48 .. hence will become normative (maybe not right now) 14:46:14 DanC: Comments on error handling and conformance pending - chance to address now 14:46:36 e.g. definitions of SPARQL query service 14:47:01 WSDL magic? (definition?? :-) 14:48:04 EricP to ask Philippe whether WSDL 2.0 is considered defining 14:50:15 todo list: (1) examples (2) post binding (3) conformance/definitions 14:50:46 (4) some kind of non-normative wsdl 1.1 14:52:15 (5) something about output serialization... is it required? 14:52:39 the output types are certainly specified otherwise 14:52:46 May be optional in which case the alternatives we can send don't matter 14:53:13 I could do tests if that helps 14:53:46 ACTION Elias: elaborate "DESCRIBE with simple RDF dataset" and a few other examples 14:54:29 ACTION KendallC: update http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rf1/result2 to [what?] 14:55:06 .../2005/sparql-results# (which I rememeber as I keep getting it wrong :-() 14:55:13 Zakim, unmute me 14:55:13 SteveH should no longer be muted 14:55:33 SteveH: tests offer 14:55:58 SteveH: Start with test content negotiation 14:56:03 ACTION SteveH: elaborate "CONSTRUCT with content negotiation" into a test case 14:56:22 Zakim, mute me 14:56:22 SteveH should now be muted 14:57:45 ACTION EricP: discuss conformance w.r.t. WSDL 2 with PLH and send some notes to the WG, preferably including suggested text for conformance 14:58:57 I think there's a WSDL 2.0 eclipse plugin... 15:00:19 WSDL 2.0: Can be one step ahead of another rec which is ref'ed 15:00:49 WSDL 2.0: Talking about spring 2006 15:02:20 DanC plans to spend time on other things from CR 15:02:43 DanC: CR may be long to allow sync with other recs 15:03:20 KC: is v1.55 an LC candidate? 15:03:49 q? 15:04:06 DaveB: has red in it 15:04:21 Zakim, pick a victim 15:04:21 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Jos_De_Roo 15:04:36 Zakim, pick a victim 15:04:36 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Kendall_Clark 15:04:40 whats the deadline? 15:05:19 AndyS will review - needs 3 clear days 15:05:25 I cant do it by a week today 15:06:29 NB My Thursday is earlier than KC's 15:07:05 I can review regardless of state 15:07:09 ah, good 15:07:31 ACTION AndyS: review proto-wd/ as LC candidate after signal from KC, perhaps by 9 Aug but more likely 16 Aug 15:08:36 q- 15:09:51 soap traces would be required, I think.... 15:10:20 ACTION EricP: review protocol document for last call when KendallC says it's ready 15:12:24 FWIW, I've heard enough to work on adding it, but that really puts "being done by Wednesday" in jeopardy 15:12:44 ACTION SteveH: review proto-wd by 16th Aug, if not 9th Aug 15:12:55 KC: Adding SOAP delays the LC candidate 15:14:45 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSep/0087.html Experience with SPARQL/P/SOAP/Axis 15:14:45 http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/joseki/Joseki3/SOAP/sparql-11.wsdl?rev=1.15&view=markup 15:14:57 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JulSep/att-0087/sparql-11.wsdl 15:15:36 [[ 15:15:37 15:15:37 15:15:39 ... 15:15:40 ]] 15:16:07 +[IBMCambridge] 15:18:39 DanC: suggest a separate tech report from the WG for WSDL 1.1 15:19:14 ACTION LeeF: draft WSDL 1.1 for SPARQL thingy with AndyS and Elias 15:19:44 ... ETA 1 month 15:19:59 kendall has joined #dawg 15:20:08 jeen has joined #dawg 15:20:09 JosD has joined #dawg 15:20:12 ACTION LeeF: draft WSDL 1.1 for SPARQL thingy with AndyS and Elias ETA 1 month 15:20:12 LeeF has joined #dawg 15:21:14 EliasT has joined #dawg 15:21:52 ACTION DanC: ask WSDL WG to review WSDL 1.1 and WSDL 2 SPARQL protocol stuff, once both are available 15:21:56 AndyS suggest ask the WSDL WG re compatiblity of our WSDL 1.1 for wire format 15:22:40 RRSAgent, list action 15:22:40 I'm logging. I don't understand 'list action', DanC. Try /msg RRSAgent help 15:22:41 RRSAgent, list actions 15:22:41 I see 13 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2005/08/02-dawg-actions.rdf : 15:22:41 ACTION: ericP to add "don't normalize" to rq23 [1] 15:22:41 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/08/02-dawg-irc#T14-37-38 15:22:41 ACTION: EricP to add test in 0096 to rq23 tests. label "approved" and [2] 15:22:41 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/08/02-dawg-irc#T14-37-59 15:22:41 ACTION: DaveB respond to "sparqlResults namespace" comment http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2005Jul/0039.html [CONTINUES] [3] 15:22:41 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/08/02-dawg-irc#T14-38-34 15:22:41 ACTION: EricP to publish rf1 [4] 15:22:41 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/08/02-dawg-irc#T14-40-19 15:22:41 ACTION: Elias to elaborate "DESCRIBE with simple RDF dataset" and a few other examples [5] 15:22:41 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/08/02-dawg-irc#T14-53-46 15:22:41 ACTION: KendallC to update http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rf1/result2 to [what?] [6] 15:22:41 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/08/02-dawg-irc#T14-54-29 15:22:41 ACTION: SteveH to elaborate "CONSTRUCT with content negotiation" into a test case [7] 15:22:41 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/08/02-dawg-irc#T14-56-03 15:22:41 ACTION: EricP to discuss conformance w.r.t. WSDL 2 with PLH and send some notes to the WG, preferably including suggested text for conformance [8] 15:22:41 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/08/02-dawg-irc#T14-57-45 15:22:41 ACTION: AndyS to review proto-wd/ as LC candidate after signal from KC, perhaps by 9 Aug but more likely 16 Aug [9] 15:22:41 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/08/02-dawg-irc#T15-07-31 15:22:41 ACTION: EricP to review protocol document for last call when KendallC says it's ready [10] 15:22:41 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/08/02-dawg-irc#T15-10-20 15:22:41 ACTION: SteveH to review proto-wd by 16th Aug, if not 9th Aug [11] 15:22:41 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/08/02-dawg-irc#T15-12-44 15:22:41 ACTION: LeeF to draft WSDL 1.1 for SPARQL thingy with AndyS and Elias [12] 15:22:41 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/08/02-dawg-irc#T15-19-14 15:22:41 ACTION: DanC to ask WSDL WG to review WSDL 1.1 and WSDL 2 SPARQL protocol stuff, once both are available [13] 15:22:41 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/08/02-dawg-irc#T15-21-52 15:24:15 AndyS sends regrets for Aug 16 15:24:32 Zakim, mute me 15:24:32 EliasT should now be muted 15:25:12 DanC reviews LC status 15:26:21 There's some risk -- but I don't know its scope or severity -- that the "How to do Sparql Protocol in WSDL 1.1" document will become the de facto protocol document for SOAP people. This means, IMO, that it has either reference the SPARQL-P doc or duplicate its policy section and maybe other sections, too. 15:26:29 Zakim, pick a victim 15:26:29 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose DanC 15:26:33 (err, I'd like that on the record.) 15:26:37 Zakim, pick a victim 15:26:37 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose DanC 15:26:41 Zakim, pick a victim 15:26:41 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Jos_De_Roo 15:26:47 Zakim, pick a victim 15:26:47 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose AndyS 15:29:40 AndyS+EricP wil do an ack section (not prior art) 15:29:42 I'm very +1 on having an ack section in the ql spec. 15:29:57 ACTION AndyS: take the "Backslashes in string literals" comment 15:30:04 Zakim, next agendum 15:30:04 agendum 5. "SPARQL QL comment status and editorial comments" taken up [from DanC] 15:30:12 Zakim, close agendum 5 15:30:12 agendum 5 closed 15:30:13 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 15:30:15 6. issue valueTesting [from DanC] 15:30:16 Zakim, next agendum 15:30:16 agendum 6. "issue valueTesting" taken up [from DanC] 15:30:16 AndyS wil take the escapes in literals 15:30:20 zakim, mute me 15:30:20 Kendall_Clark should now be muted 15:31:02 ACTION AndyS: Propose text for escapes in literals 15:31:46 action -14 15:31:52 ACTION: EricP to finish extendedType-eq-pass-result.n3 15:31:53 DONE 15:32:20 PROPOSED: to accept extendedType-eq-pass-result.n3 (manifest 1.4 ...) 15:32:30 PROPOSED: to accept extendedType-eq-pass-result.n3 (manifest 1.4 query 1.5) 15:32:34 PROPOSED: to accept extendedType-eq-pass-result.n3 (manifest 1.4 query 1.5 results 1.2) 15:33:07 zakim, unmute me 15:33:07 Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted 15:33:14 so RESOLVED. 15:33:27 er, that's missing the query: # $Id: 02-dawg-irc.txt,v 1.53 2005/08/02 20:34:32 swick Exp $ 15:33:39 action please, so the minuites get referneces 15:34:04 ACTION SteveH: update test matierials to show extendedType-eq-pass-result.n3 approved in this 2 Aug meeting 15:34:24 labeled "approved" 15:36:09 Tim sent a message about this a few minutes ago -- to comments list, I mean 15:37:17 I think I will be conviced iff the claims about de Morgan's law are valid. Not sure yet, though. 15:37:58 q+ to ask if there's a test case for every sense of the word "error" 15:38:50 ack danc 15:38:50 DanC, you wanted to ask if there's a test case for every sense of the word "error" 15:40:36 'XXI'^^:romanNumeral = 21 15:44:39 ew... sounds like our design for sorting takes a different approach from our design for valueTesting. blech. new information to me. 15:45:33 any volunteers to make test cases out of 'XXI'^^:romanNumeral = 21 and points nearby? I'd like to take this to email. 15:46:00 Agreed - tricky to do in a telecon 15:46:07 zakim, unmute me 15:46:07 Kendall_Clark was not muted, kendall 15:46:11 zakim, mute me 15:46:11 Kendall_Clark should now be muted 15:46:45 -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#func-RDFterm-equal RDF = test 15:46:57 zakim, unmute me 15:46:57 Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted 15:47:09 ACTION DaveB: make 'XXI'^^:romanNumeral = 21 and points nearby into test cases (or ask questions in email). 15:47:28 [[ 15:47:29 Returns TRUE if the two arguments are the same RDF term or if they are literals known to have the same value. The latter is tested with an XQuery function appropriate to the arguments. 15:47:33 ]] 15:47:39 I need to leave for tonight.. I will be scribing next week. ciao 15:47:50 hasta, Janne 15:47:53 -JanneS 15:48:21 Zakim, next agendum 15:48:21 agendum 7. "issue badIRIRef" taken up [from DanC] 15:49:01 SELECT ?x WHERE { dc:title ?x }. 15:49:46 wouldn't foo###bar be relative to the base URI? 15:49:55 but only one # is allowed 15:50:00 ah! right 15:52:04 ACTION AndyS: draft language re errors 15:52:30 other case: 15:55:07 Need an error test case form 15:55:14 yes 15:55:29 ACTION AndyS: Use IRI ref not RDF URI ref as worls has moved on 15:56:01 Zakim, next agendum 15:56:01 agendum 8. "comment "Query forms should be resources, not operations"" taken up [from DanC] 15:56:09 zakim, unmute me 15:56:09 Kendall_Clark was not muted, kendall 15:59:05 ACTION KC: ask Baker for clarification 15:59:16 Zakim, next agendum 15:59:16 agendum 9. "Test cases publication" taken up [from DanC] 16:00:12 ADJOURN. 16:00:16 -[IBMCambridge] 16:00:18 -DaveB 16:00:20 bye 16:00:22 -Jeen_Broekstra 16:00:23 -SteveH 16:00:25 -Jos_De_Roo 16:00:26 -Kendall_Clark 16:00:29 -HowardK 16:00:46 XML Results Format published 16:01:02 woohoo! 16:01:48 -DanC 16:01:50 -EricP 16:02:38 -AndyS 16:02:39 -EliasT 16:02:39 SW_DAWG()10:30AM has ended 16:02:41 Attendees were Kendall_Clark, EliasT, DaveB, Jeen_Broekstra, DanC, HowardK, EricP, AndyS, JanneS, Jos_De_Roo, SteveH, [IBMCambridge] 16:02:47 AndyS has left #dawg 17:06:24 DaveB has joined #dawg 17:06:32 er, re http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-rdf-sparql-XMLres-20050801/ 17:06:35 @@FIXME@@ At publication time replace http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rf1/result2.xsd and references to result2.xsd in the linked files to the final publication location under /TR/. 17:06:58 just before the example where the change shouldve' been done :) 17:14:15 a/ 17:14:26 will do, in about an hour 17:14:31 cool 17:17:13 ericp, your response to timbl seems to be confused. you gave an example with SELECT but the results look like CONSTRUCT: 17:17:14 [] fire:eek [] 17:17:33 oops, pasto 17:19:25 resent 17:20:39 I was a little surprised you flagged your message as [OK?] but i guess it makes sense 17:21:51 The example you gave wasn't from the spec nor from the test cases. I like the discussion to focus on the WG's materials. I'd be more comfortable if you put that test in the WG test suite at some point. 17:23:05 shouldn't the temp result be "314"^^:degreesK ? 17:27:57 Also, note that TBL's scenario features smokeDetected being false rather than true 17:28:05 Which changes the tradeoff 18:12:23 danbri has joined #dawg 18:12:55 bjoern_ "@@FIXME@@ At publication time replace http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rf1/result2.xsd and references to result2.xsd in the linked files to the final publication location under /TR/." -- http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-rdf-sparql-XMLres-20050801/ 18:13:00 from #swig just now 18:13:40 Thanks, danbri. I believe ericP already agreed to fix that soon. 18:14:04 Zakim has left #dawg 18:14:25 ok cool 18:29:01 ericp, [OK?] goes at the end. [closed] goes at the beginning. 18:29:19 my tools are doing something wierd with your [OK?] message. I wonder if I can get them to stop it 20:17:58 ericp? WD-rdf-sparql-XMLres doesn't seem to be fixed yet. 20:18:58 DaveB, I'm not confident I can fix it. can you watch while I try, and confirm/review? 20:22:05 DanC, yeah, mit meeting and a couple side missions kept me busy 20:22:55 ah. hi. 20:23:38 WWW/TR/2005/WD-rdf-sparql-XMLres-20050801/Overview.html 20:25:09 ah... good... dave... 20:25:13 I have ericp on the phone... 20:25:24 neither of us is really confident we can get this right without you checking 20:25:27 delete: xsi:schemaLocation="http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rf1/result2.xsd"> 20:25:40 replace: xsi:schemaLocation="http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-rdf-sparql-XMLres-20050801/result2.xsd" 20:25:50 delete: paragraph @@FIXME@@ 20:26:36 and for extra credit, replace ">References" with "References" a little later ;) 20:26:41 eric asks: dated or undated? ah. dated. 20:26:47 yes, dated 20:27:32 I guess in CR/PR/... it can go near or under the 2005/sparql-results area. A discussion for later. 20:28:18 DaveB, could you inspect? 20:28:44 WD-rdf-sparql-XMLres-20050801/Overview.html 1.1 Tue Aug 2 20:28:03 2005 UTC 20:29:05 looks good 20:29:06 i hit result2.xsd and Overview.html 20:30:14 what did you change in result2.xsd ? 20:31:06 ahh nothing according to the cvs ID. I mis-understood. 20:31:43 sorry, output2.srx 20:32:03 hmm, shouldn't be there anyways 20:32:32 it's needed for my validation with wxs 20:32:43 I check xml, relaxng, wxs valid every make 20:33:04 ok. i leave it alone 20:33:20 that's all, thanks.