W3C

Web Services CG

5 Jul 2005

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
SteveRT, Hugo, Michael, Mike_Mahan, Carine, Plh, Jonathan_Marsh
Regrets
MarkN
Chair
Steve
Scribe
hugo

Contents


 

 

Approve minutes

Minutes at: http://www.w3.org/2005/06/28-ws-cg-minutes.html

Review action items

<scribe> ACTION: Mike to present one-way MEP/binding plan to XMLP WG [PENDING] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/05-ws-cg-minutes.html#action01]

Mike: I'm planning to talk about it tomorrow
... though there's a lot of people missing, so I might postpone that by a week

<scribe> ACTION: Hugo to (possibly) work on an updated glossary and bring it for review [PENDING] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/05-ws-cg-minutes.html#action02]

<scribe> ACTION: Steve to send text for new choreography/orchestration definitions to Hugo [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/05-ws-cg-minutes.html#action03]

W3C Workshop on XML Schema 1.0 User Experiences and Interoperability

Michael: we had a workshop on user experiences with XML Schema
... we focused especially on interop issues, with a lot of emphasis on WS-related things

Michael: and also the behavior of data binding tools

Michael: several people mentioned that the difficulty understanding the spec has been a problem, but we now have agreement on things
... people have now higher interest in unevenness in data binding tools

Michael: some tools produce invalid schemas, and some people have been bitten by this

Michael: and the uneven way that tools support the data binding of schema constructs
... people wanted a schema wiki, that we have now created

<plh-home> http://esw.w3.org/topic/XML_Schema Wiki

Michael: there was support for work on errata, versioning
... most crucially, there was a lot of support for better documentation for which schema constructs have good supports for data binding
... there are certain parts of schema that are better supported than others
... e.g. for Java and C# classes
... this subset of schema will give you a good programmer experience
... outside of that sweet spot, you'll have a less good experience
... at least for people using data binding tools
... there was a lot of support for this

<SRT> Hi P

Michael: we have been thinking hard about how to move forward on this, and we're thinking about a WG, probably working on producing a Rec, describing patterns for good data binding
... it will probably be done in the WS Activity, as the experience with data binding tools is in the WS Activity, not in the XML Activity
... the Team is interested in feedback from this Group

Philippe: there will be 2 mailing lists for discussing this, including a public one for wide feedback

Steve: do you want feedback from the WGs or from the chairs on the CG?

Michael: any feedback is good, though, immediately speaking, we're asking CG members

Jonathan: I'm not sure I have a firm idea about whether W3C is the right place to do this
... some people wanted it to happen at WS-I, others at W3C
... the work on the profile seems to be of interest
... I need to think about it more

Mike: I also need to think about it more

Steve: I'm intrigued at the idea
... given the difficulty we've had with Schema as few people were understanding it
... I am interested in anything giving us better tools
... with regards to W3C or WS-I, I don't have an opinion, as I'm not familiar enough with WS-I

Jonathan: one way that this could be harmful would be if it was done by the Schema WG
... it needs to be done by a domain, and the WS Activity seems like a good fit

Philippe: WSDL authors are the primary customers
... and that's why with been talking about patterns instead of a profile
... it could be done in 2 phases:
... 1. take XML Schema 1.0, and target some Schema structures
... 2. some extensions using Schema annotations
... the first phase would be quite simple and short

Jonathan: is this information public?

Philippe: it will be public very soon
... as soon as the AC is informed

WS WG reports and issues

-- Choreography

Steve: we hope to get to CR around the end of the month
... there's more and more interest for using CDL with BPEL
... we'll have open source CDL+BPEL+WSDL(1.1|2.0) generators announced momentarilly
... interestingly, we can attach to WSDL 1.1 and 2.0 invariably

<MSM> http://www.w3.org/2005/03/xml-schema-user-cfp

<MSM> http://www.w3.org/2005/03/xml-schema-user-program.html

-- Description

Jonathan: we're still working on LC124
... at this week's call, we'll vote on going to LC with our Drafts

<SRT> Open source is on: www.pi4tech.com (examples) and www.pi4soa.org (source and eclipse plugins)

-- Protocol

Mike: we are trying to arrange a call for the SOAP 1.2 PER
... it looks that there may be some pushback on the XML 1.0 restriction in SOAP 1.2
... I'm working with Yves on a timeline for the SOAP one-way work

Philippe: the current issue is that the Infoset is restricted to XML 1.0
... we fear that this restriction is going to be problematic in the future
... the same way that XML got tied to a particular version of Unicode, Schema 1.0 was tied to XML 1.0, etc.

-- Addressing

Hugo: working on our last LC issues

Philippe: there will be a call about Addressing's status with the Director, the chair and Team contact in a couple of days

-- XML CG

Michael: we've had discussions about the Schema workshop
... people agreed that the WS Activity was a good home
... though there were concerns about 2 WGs writing normative specs about the same thing
... XML Query and XSL are nearing the end of their LC period

-- SWSIG

Carine: we had the workshop on frameworks for semantics in Web services
... we had a lot of participation, mostly researchers, but also some industry people
... the conclusion of the workshop was that the big frameworks are seen as too big
... the possible outcome are working in the IG, or in a WG, or an XG, on use cases
... or to work on semantic annotation for WSDL, in the spirit of WSDL-S
... there currently is some discussion about action in the IG list

Discussion thread: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sws-ig/2005Jun/0080.html

Carine: we're waiting a little to take a decision

Steve: how did the researchers react to that?

Carine: people wanted to keep things simple

Hugo: this action concept could be a nice bridge from the WS world to the SWS world, without much disruption at all

Steve: is there much discussion of the SWSIG with WS WGs?

Hugo: not enough; we have been encouraging this as we would benefit a lot from talking to each others

Steve: the Choreography would really appreciate more feedback

Next call

26 July 2005

And then no calls in August

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Steve to send text for new choreography/orchestration definitions to Hugo [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/05-ws-cg-minutes.html#action03]
 
[PENDING] ACTION: Hugo to (possibly) work on an updated glossary and bring it for review [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/05-ws-cg-minutes.html#action02]
[PENDING] ACTION: Mike to present one-way MEP/binding plan to XMLP WG [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/07/05-ws-cg-minutes.html#action01]
 
[End of minutes]

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$Date: 05-07-2005 - 20:00