IRC log of eo on 2005-07-01

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:03:23 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #eo
12:03:23 [RRSAgent]
logging to
12:03:29 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #eo
12:03:35 [shawn]
zakim this will be eowg
12:03:39 [shawn]
zakim, this will be eowg
12:03:39 [Zakim]
ok, shawn; I see WAI_EOWG()8:30AM scheduled to start in 27 minutes
12:05:50 [Andrew]
Andrew has joined #eo
12:07:35 [Ralph]
Ralph has joined #eo
12:10:10 [Zakim]
"Rebooting a system; back in 10 mins or less"
12:21:20 [Harvey]
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12:21:57 [Harvey]
Good Day
12:24:17 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #eo
12:24:24 [Ralph]
zakim, this will be eowg
12:24:24 [Zakim]
ok, Ralph; I see WAI_EOWG()8:30AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
12:25:40 [Zakim]
WAI_EOWG()8:30AM has now started
12:25:45 [Zakim]
12:25:55 [Justin]
Justin has joined #eo
12:25:57 [Zakim]
12:28:00 [achuter]
achuter has joined #eo
12:28:07 [Justin]
Meeting: EOWG
12:28:10 [Justin]
12:28:23 [Justin]
Chair: Judy
12:28:59 [Zakim]
12:29:34 [Justin]
Regrets: Sailesh, Liam, Chuck, Pasquale, Henk, Ron, Roberto
12:30:32 [Zakim]
12:30:38 [Zakim]
12:30:40 [Helle]
Helle has joined #eo
12:30:49 [Justin]
zakim, ??P4 is Justin
12:30:49 [Zakim]
+Justin; got it
12:30:52 [Zakim]
12:31:06 [Zakim]
12:31:07 [Zakim]
12:31:15 [Wayne]
Wayne has joined #eo
12:31:25 [Zakim]
12:31:27 [Justin]
Zakim, ??P6 is Andrew
12:31:27 [Zakim]
+Andrew; got it
12:31:32 [Zakim]
12:31:36 [judy]
judy has joined #eo
12:31:39 [Justin]
Zakim, ??P7 is Barry
12:31:39 [Zakim]
+Barry; got it
12:31:46 [shawn]
zakim, ??p7 is Barry
12:31:46 [Zakim]
I already had ??P7 as Barry, shawn
12:32:03 [Andrew]
Zakim, ??p is Andrew
12:32:03 [Zakim]
sorry, Andrew, I do not recognize a party named '??p'
12:32:16 [barry]
barry has joined #eo
12:32:27 [Zakim]
12:33:31 [Zakim]
12:33:48 [Zakim]
12:33:50 [Andrew]
zakim, ??p10 is Wayne
12:33:50 [Zakim]
+Wayne; got it
12:34:20 [Justin]
Zakim, ??P9 is Sylvie
12:34:20 [Zakim]
+Sylvie; got it
12:35:34 [shadi]
zakim, who is on the phone?
12:35:34 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Bingham, Doyle_Saylor, Loughborough (muted), Helle_Bjarno, Justin, Shawn, Andrew, Shadi, Barry, Judy, Sylvie (muted), Wayne, Alan
12:35:36 [Zakim]
Sylvie has Tanguy
12:35:59 [shadi]
zakim, sylvie is really BrailleNet
12:35:59 [Zakim]
+BrailleNet; got it
12:36:09 [shadi]
zakim, briallenet has sylvie
12:36:09 [Zakim]
sorry, shadi, I do not recognize a party named 'briallenet'
12:36:16 [shadi]
zakim, braillenet has sylvie
12:36:16 [Zakim]
+sylvie; got it
12:36:21 [shadi]
zakim, who is on the phone?
12:36:21 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Bingham, Doyle_Saylor, Loughborough (muted), Helle_Bjarno, Justin, Shawn, Andrew, Shadi, Barry, Judy, BrailleNet (muted), Wayne, Alan
12:36:24 [Zakim]
BrailleNet has sylvie
12:36:34 [shadi]
zakim, braillenet has tanguy
12:36:34 [Zakim]
+tanguy; got it
12:36:37 [shadi]
zakim, who is on the phone?
12:36:37 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Bingham, Doyle_Saylor, Loughborough (muted), Helle_Bjarno, Justin, Shawn, Andrew, Shadi, Barry, Judy, BrailleNet (muted), Wayne, Alan
12:36:41 [Zakim]
BrailleNet has tanguy
12:36:55 [shadi]
zakim, braillenet has sylvie, tanguy
12:36:55 [Zakim]
tanguy was already listed in BrailleNet, shadi
12:36:57 [Zakim]
+sylvie; got it
12:37:00 [shadi]
zakim, who is on the phone?
12:37:00 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Bingham, Doyle_Saylor, Loughborough (muted), Helle_Bjarno, Justin, Shawn, Andrew, Shadi, Barry, Judy, BrailleNet (muted), Wayne, Alan
12:37:03 [Zakim]
BrailleNet has sylvie
12:37:10 [achuter]
zakim, mute me
12:37:10 [Zakim]
sorry, achuter, I do not see a party named 'achuter'
12:37:26 [achuter]
zakim, mute Alan
12:37:26 [Zakim]
Alan should now be muted
12:37:39 [Andrew]
me is away for a few minutes
12:37:39 [achuter]
zakim, unmute Alan
12:37:39 [Zakim]
Alan should no longer be muted
12:37:49 [shadi]
zakim, braillenet also has tanguy
12:37:49 [Zakim]
+tanguy; got it
12:37:53 [shadi]
zakim, who is on the phone?
12:37:53 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Bingham, Doyle_Saylor, Loughborough (muted), Helle_Bjarno, Justin, Shawn, Andrew, Shadi, Barry, Judy, BrailleNet (muted), Wayne, Alan
12:37:57 [Zakim]
BrailleNet has sylvie, tanguy
12:38:17 [shawn]
scribenick: achuter
12:38:31 [shawn]
scribe: Alan
12:39:03 [Ralph]
Ralph has left #eo
12:39:06 [achuter]
topic: Outreach Updates
12:39:12 [achuter]
zakim, mute Alan
12:39:12 [Zakim]
Alan should now be muted
12:39:13 [Helle]
Helle has joined #eo
12:40:01 [achuter]
SH: Bert Bos has volunteered to work on CSS for site redesign.
12:40:33 [achuter]
HB: Usability Accessibility workshop in Boston area
12:40:43 [achuter]
zakim, unmute Alan
12:40:43 [Zakim]
Alan should no longer be muted
12:41:23 [achuter]
Organized by Bentley College. AARP American Association of Retired Persons, sponsor
12:41:58 [achuter]
Topic: Before/After Site Redesign: revised requirements and task force statement
12:42:31 [achuter]
JB: No draft ready to review yet.
12:43:09 [achuter]
JB: Were a few change requests.
12:43:21 [achuter]
12:44:28 [achuter]
WL: Would make it more inclusive, include other people than designers.
12:44:49 [achuter]
WL: Show that audience is not just technical people.
12:45:31 [achuter]
HB: Include users with disabilities
12:48:16 [achuter]
JB: Could be a reference for a user with disability (?)
12:49:22 [achuter]
SAZ: Have decided to use a subset of checkpoints, to reduce effort.
12:49:41 [achuter]
SAZ: Audience would be advocacy people, more than designers.
12:50:36 [achuter]
JB: Think that there are still web designers who think accessible design is boring; want to reach them.
12:51:01 [achuter]
SAZ: So examples will be beginner-level technically; not example of best practices.
12:53:08 [achuter]
WD: Need to include advocates and stakeholders in list. Where designers, evaluators, should add caveat little experience required.
12:53:23 [achuter]
WL: Include regulators.
12:54:07 [achuter]
JT: Example for converts and material for those who are still seeking.
12:54:18 [achuter]
BM: Also can be an educational resource.
12:55:03 [achuter]
SAZ: Have primary and secondary audience.
12:59:37 [achuter]
SAZ: We want to include a realtime input system like a poll, so people can see the accessible and the non-A versions change.
13:00:21 [achuter]
[JB updates the audience section online]
13:03:59 [achuter]
JB: There should be simple things like alt text.
13:04:14 [achuter]
AA: Many people don't know about forms and tables.
13:04:44 [achuter]
SAZ: Shouldn't address web designers too much, as there will only be one site; can't do everything.
13:06:30 [achuter]
WD: Web designers that need to see pages that work in A and non-A modes.
13:06:55 [achuter]
WD: That they can look good both ways.
13:09:05 [achuter]
JB: Move on to "Approach" section.
13:11:31 [achuter]
JB: Move on to "Scope".
13:13:22 [achuter]
JB: What to call it: bad/good or before/after.
13:13:44 [achuter]
HB: "Improving bad sites"
13:14:03 [achuter]
AA: Like JB's idea of "Web accessibility makeover"
13:14:21 [achuter]
zakim, unmute Alan
13:14:21 [Zakim]
Alan was not muted, achuter
13:15:19 [achuter]
SD, Jargon.Difficult to translate
13:15:33 [achuter]
AC: Difficult to translate
13:16:09 [achuter]
SH: Somethign other than before and after.
13:16:25 [achuter]
JB: "Transforming your site for accessibility"
13:16:31 [judy]
[transforming your site for accessibility]?
13:16:52 [barry]
I have to leave now - apologies...
13:16:56 [judy]
thx for coming
13:17:09 [Zakim]
13:18:58 [achuter]
WL: Metadocument for both (transforming, ?) Not a how-to document.
13:19:13 [achuter]
SAZ: Demonstrating.
13:19:46 [achuter]
zakim, mute me
13:19:46 [Zakim]
sorry, achuter, I do not see a party named 'achuter'
13:19:52 [achuter]
zakim, mute Alan
13:19:52 [Zakim]
Alan should now be muted
13:22:41 [achuter]
SAZ: Link the bad page to the evaluation report and then to the good page.
13:22:53 [achuter]
SAZ: Link to individual barriers.
13:24:08 [achuter]
SAZ: Thinking of making it look like a normal page, but using the text to describe the accessibility barriers.
13:25:06 [achuter]
WD: How invalid will the code be?
13:25:33 [achuter]
SAZ: Depends what we want to show. Like how it can display wrongly in different browsers.
13:28:13 [achuter]
SAZ: Have discussed when to use HTML and when XHTML.
13:28:40 [achuter]
WD: Do the bad one in XHTML too. Doesn't force you to be accessible.
13:30:36 [achuter]
JB: Some people might reject example if they can't upgrade to XHTML.
13:31:33 [achuter]
SAZ: Better to keep to currently used technologies rather than the most advanced.
13:34:14 [achuter]
[Before / After Taskforce Work statement]
13:34:59 [Justin]
scribenick: Justin
13:35:10 [Justin]
scribe: Justin
13:36:09 [Justin]
DS: The name is getting in the way of what the group is trying to accomplish.
13:36:32 [Justin]
SLH: We can replace in the statement the acronym with "the task force."
13:38:06 [Justin]
JB: the participation section - is a lil tricky because the members don't have to be members of EO
13:38:32 [Justin]
JB: They have to Join EO according to the patent policy process
13:39:10 [judy]
13:39:49 [Justin]
AA: someone would have to put in 10 hrs?
13:40:09 [Justin]
JB: They could join the group and not be in good standing and join the TF
13:40:26 [judy]
13:41:19 [Justin]
JB: TF participants must be participants of EO
13:41:46 [Justin]
JB: 6 hrs too much?
13:42:30 [Justin]
JB: 2 months
13:42:51 [Justin]
AA: We need ppl that are good in web development
13:43:09 [Justin]
HB: We don't expect anyone individual to work with all those skills
13:43:24 [Justin]
JB: Just dropped back the hours.
13:45:04 [Justin]
JB: Approval?
13:45:22 [Justin]
WD: Would you want some of my style sheets running them against your pages?
13:45:29 [Justin]
SAZ: Sounds good
13:46:38 [Justin]
JB: I'll make some tweaks and then we can consider it approved.
13:47:12 [Zakim]
13:49:09 [Justin]
Topic: Face to Face Planning
13:49:20 [Justin]
JB: What about OZEWai co-location
13:49:43 [Justin]
dec 5-6, dec 12-13
13:49:55 [Justin]
SLH: Most likely dec 12-13
13:50:42 [Justin]
SLH: ozewai is 7,8,9...there would be a weekend break.
13:51:58 [Justin]
JB: Would be able to get about 12 of our participants in good standing there.
13:52:55 [Justin]
HB: What about a teleconf running concurrently for those that can't be there in person?
13:53:13 [Justin]
JB: I think that's a good idea
13:53:55 [Justin]
AA: Plan out the agenda really well so that the topics that are desirable can be at good times.
13:54:22 [Justin]
HJB: Works for me
13:54:34 [Justin]
13:54:51 [Justin]
DS: I'd take advantage of the phone call conf. in.
13:56:01 [Justin]
WD: Looks good....wouldn't be able to do both that and tech plenary
13:56:35 [judy]
13:57:43 [Justin]
JB: This maybe the last time the W3C does a tech plenary does something of this form.
13:59:30 [Justin]
JB: at tech plenary we have always gotten a lot done.
14:00:32 [Justin]
SLH: does one take away from the other?
14:03:06 [Justin]
JB: Maybe we need another WBS form to be more specific.
14:04:41 [Justin]
JB: We had been looking at a location in Germany for a BPE...Helle has offered copenhagen where Helle would host.
14:05:12 [Zakim]
14:06:05 [Justin]
Topic: Web Site Redesign
14:06:31 [Justin]
SLH: We are resolving a lot of the open issues. Launch is coming soon.
14:06:39 [Justin]
Justin: Cheers
14:06:56 [Justin]
SLH: What do people see? Any issues?
14:07:12 [Justin]
14:09:01 [Justin]
HB: the bridge image, bridge to what?
14:09:32 [Justin]
SLH: that is an open issue....we were going to put in the css...might roll out with it as that ok?
14:10:51 [Justin]
AA: We will get criticized for not following our own guidelines.
14:11:14 [Justin]
SLH: It is an open issue
14:12:14 [Justin]
WL: Linking the points in the What WAI does box?
14:12:29 [Justin]
SLH: We decided against that to encourage people to use the Nav.
14:14:02 [Justin]
JB: probably an after release issue
14:14:17 [Justin]
JB: shawn has been doing a lot of work on this release.
14:15:20 [judy]
...and so has justin
14:16:08 [Justin]
JB: Anybody see anything alarming?
14:17:50 [Justin]
Topic: New WAI Log
14:17:56 [Justin]
SLH: What do people think?
14:18:17 [Justin]
AA: I like the tighter circle but i can settle with this one.
14:18:27 [Justin]
JB: Shows WAI moving forward.
14:18:52 [Justin]
SLH: Different people have seen different things.
14:20:58 [Justin]
Topic: Web Site Redesign
14:21:06 [Justin]
WL: Where is participating?
14:21:13 [Justin]
SLH: It is under about WAI
14:21:24 [Justin]
JB: Get it moved up?
14:22:20 [Justin]
SLH: It is a before rollout plan.
14:23:04 [Zakim]
14:23:07 [Zakim]
14:23:08 [Zakim]
14:23:09 [Zakim]
14:23:11 [Zakim]
14:23:12 [Zakim]
14:23:13 [Zakim]
14:23:14 [shawn]
zakim, make logs world
14:23:14 [Zakim]
14:23:15 [Zakim]
14:23:16 [Zakim]
14:23:18 [Zakim]
WAI_EOWG()8:30AM has ended
14:23:20 [Zakim]
Attendees were Bingham, Doyle_Saylor, Loughborough, Helle_Bjarno, Justin, Shawn, Shadi, Andrew, Judy, Barry, Alan, Wayne, Tanguy, sylvie
14:23:23 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'make logs world', shawn
14:23:27 [shawn]
rrsagent, make logs world
14:24:01 [Justin]
ill clean up the minutes this week....alan took it last week
14:24:11 [judy]
14:24:57 [Justin]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:24:57 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Justin
14:47:46 [judy]
judy has left #eo
14:49:05 [Wayne]
Wayne has joined #eo
16:29:43 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #eo
16:51:33 [shawn]
shawn has left #eo
17:18:52 [Justin]
rrsagent, make logs world