12:03:23 RRSAgent has joined #eo 12:03:23 logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/07/01-eo-irc 12:03:29 Zakim has joined #eo 12:03:35 zakim this will be eowg 12:03:39 zakim, this will be eowg 12:03:39 ok, shawn; I see WAI_EOWG()8:30AM scheduled to start in 27 minutes 12:05:50 Andrew has joined #eo 12:07:35 Ralph has joined #eo 12:10:10 "Rebooting a system; back in 10 mins or less" 12:21:20 Harvey has joined #eo 12:21:57 Good Day 12:24:17 Zakim has joined #eo 12:24:24 zakim, this will be eowg 12:24:24 ok, Ralph; I see WAI_EOWG()8:30AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes 12:25:40 WAI_EOWG()8:30AM has now started 12:25:45 +Bingham 12:25:55 Justin has joined #eo 12:25:57 +Doyle_Saylor 12:28:00 achuter has joined #eo 12:28:07 Meeting: EOWG 12:28:10 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-eo/2005AprJun/0197.html 12:28:23 Chair: Judy 12:28:59 +Loughborough 12:29:34 Regrets: Sailesh, Liam, Chuck, Pasquale, Henk, Ron, Roberto 12:30:32 +Helle_Bjarno 12:30:38 +??P4 12:30:40 Helle has joined #eo 12:30:49 zakim, ??P4 is Justin 12:30:49 +Justin; got it 12:30:52 +Shawn 12:31:06 +??P6 12:31:07 +Shadi 12:31:15 Wayne has joined #eo 12:31:25 +??P7 12:31:27 Zakim, ??P6 is Andrew 12:31:27 +Andrew; got it 12:31:32 +Judy 12:31:36 judy has joined #eo 12:31:39 Zakim, ??P7 is Barry 12:31:39 +Barry; got it 12:31:46 zakim, ??p7 is Barry 12:31:46 I already had ??P7 as Barry, shawn 12:32:03 Zakim, ??p is Andrew 12:32:03 sorry, Andrew, I do not recognize a party named '??p' 12:32:16 barry has joined #eo 12:32:27 +??P9 12:33:31 +??P10 12:33:48 +Alan 12:33:50 zakim, ??p10 is Wayne 12:33:50 +Wayne; got it 12:34:20 Zakim, ??P9 is Sylvie 12:34:20 +Sylvie; got it 12:35:34 zakim, who is on the phone? 12:35:34 On the phone I see Bingham, Doyle_Saylor, Loughborough (muted), Helle_Bjarno, Justin, Shawn, Andrew, Shadi, Barry, Judy, Sylvie (muted), Wayne, Alan 12:35:36 Sylvie has Tanguy 12:35:59 zakim, sylvie is really BrailleNet 12:35:59 +BrailleNet; got it 12:36:09 zakim, briallenet has sylvie 12:36:09 sorry, shadi, I do not recognize a party named 'briallenet' 12:36:16 zakim, braillenet has sylvie 12:36:16 +sylvie; got it 12:36:21 zakim, who is on the phone? 12:36:21 On the phone I see Bingham, Doyle_Saylor, Loughborough (muted), Helle_Bjarno, Justin, Shawn, Andrew, Shadi, Barry, Judy, BrailleNet (muted), Wayne, Alan 12:36:24 BrailleNet has sylvie 12:36:34 zakim, braillenet has tanguy 12:36:34 +tanguy; got it 12:36:37 zakim, who is on the phone? 12:36:37 On the phone I see Bingham, Doyle_Saylor, Loughborough (muted), Helle_Bjarno, Justin, Shawn, Andrew, Shadi, Barry, Judy, BrailleNet (muted), Wayne, Alan 12:36:41 BrailleNet has tanguy 12:36:55 zakim, braillenet has sylvie, tanguy 12:36:55 tanguy was already listed in BrailleNet, shadi 12:36:57 +sylvie; got it 12:37:00 zakim, who is on the phone? 12:37:00 On the phone I see Bingham, Doyle_Saylor, Loughborough (muted), Helle_Bjarno, Justin, Shawn, Andrew, Shadi, Barry, Judy, BrailleNet (muted), Wayne, Alan 12:37:03 BrailleNet has sylvie 12:37:10 zakim, mute me 12:37:10 sorry, achuter, I do not see a party named 'achuter' 12:37:26 zakim, mute Alan 12:37:26 Alan should now be muted 12:37:39 me is away for a few minutes 12:37:39 zakim, unmute Alan 12:37:39 Alan should no longer be muted 12:37:49 zakim, braillenet also has tanguy 12:37:49 +tanguy; got it 12:37:53 zakim, who is on the phone? 12:37:53 On the phone I see Bingham, Doyle_Saylor, Loughborough (muted), Helle_Bjarno, Justin, Shawn, Andrew, Shadi, Barry, Judy, BrailleNet (muted), Wayne, Alan 12:37:57 BrailleNet has sylvie, tanguy 12:38:17 scribenick: achuter 12:38:31 scribe: Alan 12:39:03 Ralph has left #eo 12:39:06 topic: Outreach Updates 12:39:12 zakim, mute Alan 12:39:12 Alan should now be muted 12:39:13 Helle has joined #eo 12:40:01 SH: Bert Bos has volunteered to work on CSS for site redesign. 12:40:33 HB: Usability Accessibility workshop in Boston area 12:40:43 zakim, unmute Alan 12:40:43 Alan should no longer be muted 12:41:23 Organized by Bentley College. AARP American Association of Retired Persons, sponsor 12:41:58 Topic: Before/After Site Redesign: revised requirements and task force statement 12:42:31 JB: No draft ready to review yet. 12:43:09 JB: Were a few change requests. 12:43:21 http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/retrofit/requ-basite.html 12:44:28 WL: Would make it more inclusive, include other people than designers. 12:44:49 WL: Show that audience is not just technical people. 12:45:31 HB: Include users with disabilities 12:46:52 SH: Can have primary and secondary audience (said JB) but mustn't make it exclusive 12:48:16 JB: Could be a reference for a user with disability (?) 12:49:22 SAZ: Have decided to use a subset of checkpoints, to reduce effort. 12:49:41 SAZ: Audience would be advocacy people, more than designers. 12:50:36 JB: Think that there are still web designers who think accessible design is boring; want to reach them. 12:51:01 SAZ: So examples will be beginner-level technically; not example of best practices. 12:53:08 WD: Need to include advocates and stakeholders in list. Where designers, evaluators, should add caveat little experience required. 12:53:23 WL: Include regulators. 12:54:07 JT: Example for converts and material for those who are still seeking. 12:54:18 BM: Also can be an educational resource. 12:55:03 SAZ: Have primary and secondary audience. 12:59:37 SAZ: We want to include a realtime input system like a poll, so people can see the accessible and the non-A versions change. 13:00:21 [JB updates the audience section online] 13:03:59 JB: There should be simple things like alt text. 13:04:14 AA: Many people don't know about forms and tables. 13:04:44 SAZ: Shouldn't address web designers too much, as there will only be one site; can't do everything. 13:06:30 WD: Web designers that need to see pages that work in A and non-A modes. 13:06:55 WD: That they can look good both ways. 13:09:05 JB: Move on to "Approach" section. 13:11:31 JB: Move on to "Scope". 13:13:22 JB: What to call it: bad/good or before/after. 13:13:44 HB: "Improving bad sites" 13:14:03 AA: Like JB's idea of "Web accessibility makeover" 13:14:21 zakim, unmute Alan 13:14:21 Alan was not muted, achuter 13:15:19 SD, Jargon.Difficult to translate 13:15:33 AC: Difficult to translate 13:16:09 SH: Somethign other than before and after. 13:16:25 JB: "Transforming your site for accessibility" 13:16:31 [transforming your site for accessibility]? 13:16:52 I have to leave now - apologies... 13:16:56 thx for coming 13:17:09 -Barry 13:18:58 WL: Metadocument for both (transforming, ?) Not a how-to document. 13:19:13 SAZ: Demonstrating. 13:19:46 zakim, mute me 13:19:46 sorry, achuter, I do not see a party named 'achuter' 13:19:52 zakim, mute Alan 13:19:52 Alan should now be muted 13:22:41 SAZ: Link the bad page to the evaluation report and then to the good page. 13:22:53 SAZ: Link to individual barriers. 13:24:08 SAZ: Thinking of making it look like a normal page, but using the text to describe the accessibility barriers. 13:25:06 WD: How invalid will the code be? 13:25:33 SAZ: Depends what we want to show. Like how it can display wrongly in different browsers. 13:28:13 SAZ: Have discussed when to use HTML and when XHTML. 13:28:40 WD: Do the bad one in XHTML too. Doesn't force you to be accessible. 13:30:36 JB: Some people might reject example if they can't upgrade to XHTML. 13:31:33 SAZ: Better to keep to currently used technologies rather than the most advanced. 13:34:14 [Before / After Taskforce Work statement] 13:34:59 scribenick: Justin 13:35:10 scribe: Justin 13:36:09 DS: The name is getting in the way of what the group is trying to accomplish. 13:36:32 SLH: We can replace in the statement the acronym with "the task force." 13:38:06 JB: the participation section - is a lil tricky because the members don't have to be members of EO 13:38:32 JB: They have to Join EO according to the patent policy process 13:39:10 http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/charter4 13:39:49 AA: someone would have to put in 10 hrs? 13:40:09 JB: They could join the group and not be in good standing and join the TF 13:40:26 http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/charter4#scope 13:41:19 JB: TF participants must be participants of EO 13:41:46 JB: 6 hrs too much? 13:42:30 JB: 2 months 13:42:51 AA: We need ppl that are good in web development 13:43:09 HB: We don't expect anyone individual to work with all those skills 13:43:24 JB: Just dropped back the hours. 13:45:04 JB: Approval? 13:45:22 WD: Would you want some of my style sheets running them against your pages? 13:45:29 SAZ: Sounds good 13:46:38 JB: I'll make some tweaks and then we can consider it approved. 13:47:12 -Alan 13:49:09 Topic: Face to Face Planning 13:49:20 JB: What about OZEWai co-location 13:49:43 dec 5-6, dec 12-13 13:49:55 SLH: Most likely dec 12-13 13:50:42 SLH: ozewai is 7,8,9...there would be a weekend break. 13:51:58 JB: Would be able to get about 12 of our participants in good standing there. 13:52:55 HB: What about a teleconf running concurrently for those that can't be there in person? 13:53:13 JB: I think that's a good idea 13:53:55 AA: Plan out the agenda really well so that the topics that are desirable can be at good times. 13:54:22 HJB: Works for me 13:54:34 s/HJB/HBJ 13:54:51 DS: I'd take advantage of the phone call conf. in. 13:56:01 WD: Looks good....wouldn't be able to do both that and tech plenary 13:56:35 ROTFL... 13:57:43 JB: This maybe the last time the W3C does a tech plenary does something of this form. 13:59:30 JB: at tech plenary we have always gotten a lot done. 14:00:32 SLH: does one take away from the other? 14:03:06 JB: Maybe we need another WBS form to be more specific. 14:04:41 JB: We had been looking at a location in Germany for a BPE...Helle has offered copenhagen where Helle would host. 14:05:12 -Helle_Bjarno 14:06:05 Topic: Web Site Redesign 14:06:31 SLH: We are resolving a lot of the open issues. Launch is coming soon. 14:06:39 Justin: Cheers 14:06:56 SLH: What do people see? Any issues? 14:07:12 http://www.w3.org/WAI/ut3/ 14:09:01 HB: the bridge image, bridge to what? 14:09:32 SLH: that is an open issue....we were going to put in the css...might roll out with it as is...is that ok? 14:10:51 AA: We will get criticized for not following our own guidelines. 14:11:14 SLH: It is an open issue 14:12:14 WL: Linking the points in the What WAI does box? 14:12:29 SLH: We decided against that to encourage people to use the Nav. 14:14:02 JB: probably an after release issue 14:14:17 JB: shawn has been doing a lot of work on this release. 14:15:20 ...and so has justin 14:16:08 JB: Anybody see anything alarming? 14:17:50 Topic: New WAI Log 14:17:56 SLH: What do people think? 14:18:17 AA: I like the tighter circle but i can settle with this one. 14:18:27 JB: Shows WAI moving forward. 14:18:52 SLH: Different people have seen different things. 14:20:58 Topic: Web Site Redesign 14:21:06 WL: Where is participating? 14:21:13 SLH: It is under about WAI 14:21:24 JB: Get it moved up? 14:22:20 SLH: It is a before rollout plan. 14:23:04 -Shadi 14:23:07 -Doyle_Saylor 14:23:08 -Justin 14:23:09 -Bingham 14:23:11 -BrailleNet 14:23:12 -Wayne 14:23:13 -Andrew 14:23:14 zakim, make logs world 14:23:14 -Judy 14:23:15 -Shawn 14:23:16 -Loughborough 14:23:18 WAI_EOWG()8:30AM has ended 14:23:20 Attendees were Bingham, Doyle_Saylor, Loughborough, Helle_Bjarno, Justin, Shawn, Shadi, Andrew, Judy, Barry, Alan, Wayne, Tanguy, sylvie 14:23:23 I don't understand 'make logs world', shawn 14:23:27 rrsagent, make logs world 14:24:01 ill clean up the minutes this week....alan took it last week 14:24:11 thanks 14:24:57 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:24:57 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/07/01-eo-minutes.html Justin 14:47:46 judy has left #eo 14:49:05 Wayne has joined #eo 16:29:43 Zakim has left #eo 16:51:33 shawn has left #eo 17:18:52 rrsagent, make logs world